ben_vulpes: ui programmers are especially prone to this, imho because the smalltalk MPI style of MVC and data marshalling through layers is very much not a paradigm that lends itself to simplicity of code design.
assbot: Logged on 14-01-2016 21:32:41; mircea_popescu: i suspect that at the root of the complexity-seeking behaviours is the deeply internalized if very infantile fear that if others understand what you did they won't respect you for doing it. because hey, 5yo doesn't understand what parents do.
adlai: the fiat gov signing such a law signs its own expiration warrant, but the average legislator probably isn't smart enough to be reading the logs
adlai wonders whether a sign of 'Bitcoin Mecca' will be legislating that taxable income must be delivered in local fiat, without actually making non-fiat payment illegal as incentive, enticement, teasing, etc
adlai: not in the "produce non-cuantic trading engine" sense, but in the "RFC if your trade didn't appear properly" sense
adlai would guess that it's a little early for an RFC, but has no readily available data about the time-in-market for RFCed technology
assbot: Logged on 14-01-2016 00:10:03; mircea_popescu: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/photons.htm << this thing's a fucking riot. "photon of color" totally makes the whole piece.
assbot: Logged on 14-01-2016 03:31:31; ben_vulpes: i do not see the point at all in differentiating between txnen-which-are-relayed and txn-which-are-mined
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-01-2016#1369798 << for starters, because Bitcoin differentiates between them, modulo s/were/are/ ; and because fixing this requires admitting that separating the merkle roots covering inputs and outputs might actually be onto something
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Ah no. I jsut suspected you might be writing a post. Then when you said it wasn't going into a post decided to jinx it.
BingoBoingo: That's how USG works, just fishing new Hearnias everytime the dumber power rangers rig up a fresh truss to pretend the last one wasn't a problem.
mircea_popescu: should that happen, which seems improbable, i'll just... fish another one ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: At some point you are surely going to find occasion to include that amateur whore in a Trilema. It will be the exact derp to properly explain some other derp who needs a good shiting on.
mircea_popescu: sort-of how philosophy is studied both historically and thematically. the log is historical, but there should prolly be a thematic repository
BingoBoingo: adlai: Cliff notes are not reading shakespeare, even if the kid passes the classroom test. Even a quality summary is at best merely an aid useful for assisting a thrid or fourth rereading of the actual canon material.
BingoBoingo: Qntra is the wrong place for log "summaries," News that happens in the logs yes. General summmaries of X period in the logs no. The complete logs are their own canon.
adlai wonders whether qntra would be a better venue than deeds for summaries; it has the advantage of requiring review and implying approval, rather than merely inviting sha256 and best-effort backup
PeterL: maybe? alf and mircea I copied key off net and into file, they show up fine in v list, the other two I imported into gpg key and then exported to a file
mircea_popescu: the latter's actuyally useful.
adlai: well the logs themselves are deeded (or at least the past year(s)? didn't verify it all myself)
mircea_popescu: why deed the logs ?
adlai wonders how serene a republic must get for the first n00b to volunteer log summary deeds... not like anybody able to pay for this would either do so or volunteer himself
mircea_popescu: i meant the script. v.pl
mircea_popescu: can you paste the script that output that ?
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: did you somehow copy my key over every other ?
PeterL: I think it should have a different fingerprint for each person, but it is showing the same for everybody
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-01-2016#1370425 << This is going in the first paragraph
mircea_popescu: for there is no such thing as defeat, as alf correctly observes. but there is such thing as victory.
thestringpuller: while at the same time woodchipper continues to spew moar corpses into grave while idiots tell you "they know better"
mircea_popescu: you'll sit there on a mass grave with a million corpses in it, and alternatively piss inside and go "no defeat here"
mircea_popescu: anyone remember "twobitidiot" ? no, because today it's "toomim brothers". bla bla, whatevs.
mircea_popescu: quite. they spawn like cockroaches.
ascii_butugychag: yesterday - hearn, tomorrow - some other
thestringpuller: i forgot. sometimes they just sprinkle crack on nigger homeowners and call it a day.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that nytimes only publishes the faux accounts of SOME scammers, rather than all scammers.
mircea_popescu: nono, they were gonna matter!
ascii_butugychag: on account of the faux-trb 'bitcoin classic' crapolade
mircea_popescu: what did you expect him to do, "i am an abject failure that decided to go up against better men, who first warned me and then turned me inside out like a glove" ?
brg444: ^ meh. Price did react and tanked when he released the XTurd
thestringpuller: oh this takes the cake >> “I want to be in a professional environment again where people are grounded in some sort of business reality.”
thestringpuller: "He believes that the dangers of the current impasse have not been reflected in the price of Bitcoin because the full debate has been censored in many of the online forums where Bitcoin is discussed." << When did reddit become "the forum"?
mircea_popescu: but the fact that they can't keep their oh-so-precious "state secrets" from the republic bothers them immensely.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Thing hit my radar just after the Post industrial shithole piece.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is that asspirate anyway.
mircea_popescu: he was a prominent mole, ever since the original forkattack.
mircea_popescu: " Mr. Hearn, until recently one of the most prominent leaders of the Bitcoin project, became so disillusioned that in December he sold the few hundred Bitcoins he had left and quietly took a job at a new start-up."
mircea_popescu: that's ok, the usg can keep it.
brg444: if not safe to say you can now claim the body http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/business/dealbook/the-bitcoin-believer-who-gave-up.html
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for brg444 from 1 to 1 with note: loan of voice
thestringpuller: for the old management he did, but he couldn't bullshit my buddy.
thestringpuller: The d00d kept trying to say how his job was meaningful and useful, etc.
thestringpuller: there was once a Ph.D ex-NASA worker employed by my buddy at McAffee back in the day. He built job security around "filtering mail". When my buddy became a manager, he asked the d00d "What do you actually do?" The guy gave this long obfuscated explanation, and my buddy said, "So we can replace you with a mail proc script?"
mircea_popescu: as if your don't undertstanding is an extenuating circumstance, that somehow makes anything better, like salt and blowing up the whites.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag it is, but not just. the nonsense is in fact so pervasive that when someone does something horrible ~and it matters not at all what it is ~ the first, the automatic, the one true psychological defense is... "you don't understand"
ascii_butugychag: (if your system makes sense to others, you might get sacked, etc)
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: this is intensely selected for in the 'job market'
thestringpuller: the funny thing is the core devs proclaim "No need to use V or TRB method. We sign our git patches!!!!111"
mircea_popescu: i suspect that at the root of the complexity-seeking behaviours is the deeply internalized if very infantile fear that if others understand what you did they won't respect you for doing it. because hey, 5yo doesn't understand what parents do.
ascii_butugychag: my mind is still boggling at the sheer monumental complexity of the signed-git crud
mircea_popescu: the former's all removal. much like our work on bitcoin pore.
mircea_popescu: and disciplines of the ass, such as being a sumo wrestler.
mircea_popescu: there's a major difference between disciplines of the mind, such as NOT BEING STUPID
ascii_butugychag: could they, now.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag you have to know tho. in the time it takes most women to suck at their amorous life, they could make themselves into quite respectable slavegirls. so what of it ?
ascii_butugychag: i think in the time it takes to even read that page, you could write a quite respectable v-tron...
ascii_butugychag: esp. to all the folks who want to 'automate' crypto
ascii_butugychag: so i looked into what folks did in the dark ages prior to 'v'
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/037d6253192bbb88959455bc7684cccc/tumblr_mzp1mac2cP1rwmba9o1_1280.jpg
assbot: Server retired after 18 years and ten months – beat that, readers! • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1ORItnW )
BingoBoingo: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/14/server_retired_after_18_years_and_ten_months_beat_that_readers/
gribble: Varg Vikernes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varg_Vikernes>; Varg Vikernes | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers: <http://murderpedia.org/male.V/v/vikernes-varg.htm>; Some Facts about Varg Vikernes & his Case | Thulean Perspective: <http://thuleanperspective.com/2014/06/02/some-facts-about-varg-vikernes-his-case/>
mircea_popescu: perhaps the biggest matzah ball hanging over the heads of all this well meaning & naive "foss" thing is the sheer disinclination of the kids to do research.
mircea_popescu: maybe link him to the whole pogo thing ?
thestringpuller: so gavin conceded >> http://gavinandresen.ninja/classic-unlimited-xt-core << "In the long run I think everything will work out fine, no matter what happens with the block limit."
BingoBoingo: In still other news http://qntra.net/2016/01/coindesk-acquired-by-silbert-group/#comment-39755
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://45.media.tumblr.com/b17b3f105a3bfbf838443492b1974592/tumblr_n34z2zgTth1trf4yko1_500.gif
BingoBoingo: unexpectedly, to resume it at a later time, provided the server also
BingoBoingo: UPDATE: Affects all OpenSSH 5.4 - 7.1: Apply the workaround and wait for an upcoming release.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: he's the exception to the rule, you also get the occasional light-skinned Nigerian :)
ascii_butugychag: still waiting for anybody to suggest removing ALL the 'mebbe for later' crapolade
mircea_popescu: server into leaking client memory to the server, including private
mircea_popescu: SECURITY: ssh(1): The OpenSSH client code between 5.4 and 7.1
ascii_butugychag: 'The matching server code has never been shipped, but the client code was enabled by default and could be tricked by a malicious server into leaking client memory to the server, including private client user keys.
mircea_popescu: as bitcoin grows there'll be more stuff to list.
mircea_popescu: eh what's the rush anyway.
Atomicat: How many assets are listed on MPEX? Is there a list?
thestringpuller: Atomicat: he value of a seat on the New York Stock Exchange has been falling after reaching a high nearly $4 million in 2005 to a value arounf $2.5 million today. << Significantly cheaper than a seat at the NYSE
mircea_popescu: the price was actually lower historically.
Atomicat: thestringpuller: I think mircea_popescu should lower the price bacuase the bitcoin was not this high at that time.
mircea_popescu: Atomicat yeah. but there are brokers, such as for instance jurov's coinbr.com that are less onerous.
Atomicat: mircea_popescu: "Make sure you include verbiage to reflect that you are aware you will be required to pay 50 BTC as fees for registering the account, and are prepared to do so. "
thestringpuller: Yea he was the kissinger of napoleon from what I'm reading.
mircea_popescu: right. napoleon got to be napoleon for two reasons and a spot of luck. the ancient nobility prince here named is one reason, count bernadotte, later king, is the other.
thestringpuller: seems dope as hell: "His career spanned the regimes of Louis XVI, the years of the French Revolution, Napoleon, Louis XVIII, and Louis-Philippe."
mircea_popescu: you know who the guy was right ?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: thanks for the link. french bourgeois life during that time. my what a time.
assbot: The list of discontinued assets on MPEx on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/231DI1j )
mircea_popescu: as well as, for completness, http://trilema.com/2013/the-list-of-discontinued-assets-on-mpex/
assbot: The best investments in the history of Bitcoin on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/231DBmu )
mircea_popescu: but, illo tempore, http://trilema.com/2013/the-best-investments-in-the-history-of-bitcoin/
mircea_popescu: iirc mpex assets have been the only profitable sort of bitcoin assets throughout bitcoin's history.
Atomicat: How can I register on MPEX and is there any profittable assets to invest in currently?
thestringpuller: f. scott fitzgerald really didn't get experience "the rich life", it's just interesting to me that "old miners" operate similar to "old money". i do find it intriguing the proletariat of America found that book so fascinating in declaring "the american dream" dead.
assbot: Logged on 14-01-2016 15:24:47; thestringpuller: DerpUnion: bitcoin mining is a black hole, as in you'll never get the BTC out you put into miners unless you can do some voodoo. Even if electricity cost was 0, you'd still have trouble paying off the miners themselves unless you have direct access to $foundry
thestringpuller: this is how gatsby tried to rise to power, but was struck down by "old money". it would seem miners would operate under the same mentality.
mircea_popescu: the other kids in school'd BETTER think his dad's house is cool, or else he stands to lose a lot. so he has a vested interest in having the sluttier chicks in class over by his pool each weekend, that other kids in better situations don't.
mircea_popescu: in a sense they're stuck with them. much like a preppy kid that's stuck with his parents house.
mircea_popescu: "old miners" do what you say in cases such as saudi arabia cutting prices to sink obama's hopes of reindustrializing the us, sure. but note that there's a strong "god-given" element to this : the saudis didn't BUILD those oil deposits.
thestringpuller: i had a theory the "profitable" miners (ones that got in early before major difficulty increase vis-a-vis jgarzik getting first avalon miner and paying it off in 1 month), will drop the price to push other miners offline.
thestringpuller: aha! the plot thickens.
mircea_popescu: which is the primary driver for the extreme run-up in hashing we've been experiencing the past coupla years.
mircea_popescu: there IS the implicit fiat short where you finance your mining with [tax deductible] fiat losses, and maintain your profits in bitcoin.
thestringpuller: This is why you get stories of people investing in mining and holding BTC until price escalates then sell portion to get net profit. But bear market has prevented that for the past 1.5-2 years
mircea_popescu: that there exists no marginal demand created by production increase nor any demand destroyed by production shortages makes the situation quite peculiar.
mircea_popescu: what happens is that the same nominal amount will be distributed to all producers uniformly by lottery, no matter the volume of production.
mircea_popescu: the strange with bitcoin is that mining is ALWAYS a market in which supracapacity exists, for the odd reason that mining is a ~0 demand activity, which is altogether a concept unknown in economy so far.
thestringpuller: DerpUnion: bitcoin mining is a black hole, as in you'll never get the BTC out you put into miners unless you can do some voodoo. Even if electricity cost was 0, you'd still have trouble paying off the miners themselves unless you have direct access to $foundry
thestringpuller: and then "But the promised benefits from these textile investments were illusory. Many of our competitors, both domestic and foreign, were stepping up to the same kind of expenditures and, once enough companies did so, their reduced costs became the baseline for reduced prices industrywide. Viewed individually, each company’s capital investment decision appeared cost- effective and rational; viewed collectively, the decisio
thestringpuller: Relevant part hanbot had posted >> "Over the years, we had the option of making large capital expenditures in the textile operation that would have allowed us to somewhat reduce variable costs. Each proposal to do so looked like an immediate winner. Measured by standard return-on- investment tests, in fact, these proposals usually promised greater economic benefits than would have resulted from comparable expenditures in our
mircea_popescu: " The domestic textile industry operates in a commodity business, competing in a world market in which substantial excess capacity exists." and subsq.
DerpUnion: thestringpuller: think i might have read this b4, but will go thru it again, thx
thestringpuller: any miner going online today will never break even at the retail price point
mircea_popescu: you recall the mpoe-pr's buffett quote ?
thestringpuller: I can't get the numbers to work to make mining profitable. I don't see how it would be possible. It's like flushing BTC down a toilet.
mircea_popescu: cut right down on the name squatting business.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
DerpUnion: mircea_popescu: Whats the deal with Erik Voorhees supporting larger blocks, u still in touch with him?
DerpUnion: first it was 20MB, then 8MB-8GB, now its down to 2MB, that is like atleast a 10x change in his "technical position"
DerpUnion: so whats the deal with Classic, gavin is starting to look desperate
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell michail1 you know the later tell thing is public right ?
gribble: Sent 2 weeks, 4 days, 12 hours, and 34 minutes ago: <Michail1> Need ya to contact me. House fire, and the cleanup crew broke my sign. Snapped off the A. Do you have another for sale or the 'ACCEPTED' part?
mircea_popescu: ;;notes therealascii
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gabriel_laddel: ;; later tell adlai I was referring to the dataflow paradigm.
mircea_popescu: there we go.
gribble: I currently have notes waiting for ben_vulpes, cazalla, crypt0queen, hey, joseph_young, kako, M-John, mike_c, nubbins`, pierre_rochard, psztorc, saifedean, TheNewDeal, therealascii, Ukto, Ukyo, whaack, and Wolf`.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck was it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: PeterL: this people do not advertise. probably have to go to the deserts of china to find them.
PeterL: <thestringpuller> mircea_popescu: do you have contacts for the mining world? last time I checked everyone in that world was some level of scammer. << people offering "mining services" might all be scammers, but there might be people mining for themselves who are not scamming
Atomicat: Isn't that the WOT?
thestringpuller: seems complicated in the sense the trustworthy miners don't advertise themselves but hide in the darkness.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it's complicated.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: do you have contacts for the mining world? last time I checked everyone in that world was some level of scammer.
mircea_popescu: it allows you to build software on the basis of patches signed by people you specifically trust.
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part i. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ok6H8T )
PeterL: also read this: http://www.contravex.com/2015/12/25/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-i/
mircea_popescu: v is a signature-based versioning system and other things.
mircea_popescu: it does use the same blockchain.
PeterL: there is a mailing list, on the website mircea_popescu linked, and most of it is discussed in these logs
mircea_popescu: brace yourself, while derps derped on tardstalk etc, a LOT of work went on towards actual bitcoin, and so there's a lot of catch up to do.
Atomicat: I will look into this later today. What are the rules set forth in TRB?
mircea_popescu: PeterL this is a public channel. for obvious security reasons trb is a superset thereof.
PeterL: as far as we know, we are the only people using trb?
PeterL: #b-a mining pool implies it is run by people within the #b-a WoT, trb pool implies it follows the rules set forth in trb
mircea_popescu: "the differences, while present, are not yet important"
PeterL: although, somebody outside this group could pick up trb and start their own pool, so I guess it is not exactly the same thing
PeterL: iiuc, the current reference implementation of trb does not support pooled mining, so somebody would have to port the current trb ruleset into a mining pool program
mircea_popescu: Atomicat the best avenue for you would be to register in the wot and spend half year or so reading hte logs to get up to speed.
Atomicat: mircea_popescu: I have a good programming background and might be interested in running a pool if I can offer something other pools doesn't
mircea_popescu: (not that pools are such a bright idea in the first place, but sadly this is a dropped ball we can't so far fix)
mircea_popescu: the idea'd be to have an actually compliant pool, for once.
mircea_popescu: there's a PR-Bitcoin maintained by the power rangers. there's also the true bitcoin, maintained by the bitcoin foundation ( http://thebitcoin.foundation/ )
shinohai: Other than that every post seems to be whining about "being censored" and sych
shinohai: I only made an account a few days ago during the bitbet brouhaha
mircea_popescu: you don't advertise jobs requiring a clearance in the want ad section of teh newspaper either.
PeterL: Atomicat, I used to be active on bitcointalk, but then I found this place. Now I never go there anymore.
mircea_popescu: PeterL im planning to offer a little bonus, but someone DOES have to run the actual pool.
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-01-2016#1367133 << we don't need any hash power to make TRB mining pool, miners bring the has power, we tell them what to mine
punkman: http://theweek.com/articles/598367/china-building-first-military-base-africa-america-should-nervous
mircea_popescu: there is a log, it's searchable, have a ball.
gribble: hanbot was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 4 days, 17 hours, 58 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <hanbot> deedbot- http://thewhet.net/han/mpifpc4_122015.txt.asc
mircea_popescu: and of course the "service" "has moved" to nowhere and is imported downstream without any sort of sanity checking by unwarrantedly-popular mass market services and on it fucking goes.
mircea_popescu: i do some digging around, it turns out that, get this : https://github.com/SpamExperts/pyzor/issues/39 they list THE FUCKING MESSAGE. so if you ever wondered why the string "123" can't be sent through email, take a motherfucking guess.
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news, guy complains about not getting my email, i tell him his shit's probably badly set up, he tells me my shit's prolly blacklisted, i go what the fuck. spend a time googling to see if this can be even tested, turns out it can, i end up on http://www.mail-tester.com/web-WeHDBS which says that i'm perfect except "listed in pyzor".
mircea_popescu: exactly where these dudes be from.
mircea_popescu: equatorial guinea! there.
mircea_popescu: nono there was one
mircea_popescu: fluffypony that'd be because they are lol.
shinohai: mircea_popescu is right, he would be the perfect space Moor
fluffypony: punkman: Lando Calrissian was the only memorable on-screen black character, tho
mircea_popescu: "oh, you made a movie in 2010 and there's a buncha black dudes in it ? how considerate of you, where were you in 1952!"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony well moreover it's only relevant in the sense of fan service commentary. "oh, really, it just so happened all your bridge bunnies were 180 and freshly laid off the siegfried follies ? fancy that coincidence into the future!"
fluffypony: but they had a bunch of aliens, so it's a dumb argument
fluffypony: I guess the running joke is that most of the films only had 1 (visible) black actor/actress
shinohai: Samuel L Jackson kills in th the new Hateful Eight movie.
mircea_popescu: i dun think it would have "count"-ed for the same people.
shinohai: But alas, James Earl Jones was but a voice, underneath they still made vadar a wrinkly old white guy.
mircea_popescu has no idea who any of these people are, googles the latter, he looks about as black as wesley snipes wtf.
mircea_popescu: ah did it ? alrighty then.
mircea_popescu: "Star Wars was released theatrically in the United States on May 25, 1977. It earned $461 million in the US and $314 million overseas, totaling $775 million. It surpassed Jaws (1975) to become the highest-grossing film of all time; its gross was later surpassed by that of E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982). When adjusted for inflation as of 2013" << check it out, there was inflation since the 80s ?!
mircea_popescu: mmkay so : Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope being the 1977 & first release of the thing, has no black people in it. does it ?
mircea_popescu: i guess that's what i get for commenting on stuff i never bothered to actually see.
mircea_popescu: so the retcon forks off episode V rather than episode I ? or wait... actually this franchise starts midway does it ?
fluffypony: Billy Dee Williams (who played Lando Calrissian) was in Empire Strikes Back and in Return of the Jedi
mircea_popescu: "oh black people always existed, we just didn't film any back in the 60s."
mircea_popescu: punkman the whole thing of even having black people in star wars. seriously ? the retcon of all time.
punkman: https://www.rt.com/news/328844-indonesia-suicide-attacks-isis/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYqiNpkUoAAnxK2.jpg check out the diy grenades
BingoBoingo: trb behaving as expected so far, no forgetten gold in the wallet.dat yet
BingoBoingo: atm rescanning an ancient wallet to see if anything is there. Hopefully datacenter gets back to me tomorrow about dedi-box, which is practice for colo-box
BingoBoingo almost has build machine back together to resume V-enture
asciilifeform: they have (had? it's been a while) colourful substitution cipher rebuses in the 'starbucks' around dc area
phf: because a cryptology themed restaurant, that would be something i'd want to see. nsa contractors go there for burgers, kind of ironically, but also cause it's close to "the location". spy memorabilia, but all utterly obscure for a casual observer. cute frequency analysis problems sprinkled all over
mircea_popescu: however more importantly b) there is NO WAY for neutral-S miners to profit from T2-Tn as-is.
mircea_popescu: a) the expectation is, as you've seen, that i'll get an accountant out of bed and on my own dime fix the mess power rangers made because hey, why not, it's a decentralized protocol which means some idiots break it and the world fixes it
asciilifeform: but the S-selection does not appear to touch block-validity-tester at all!
mircea_popescu: it's true that this costs S-indiscriminate miners the txn fees of T2-Tn, but
mircea_popescu: should T1' be mined, then T2...TN is now invalid, and will have to be resent.