mircea_popescu: "you wanna cook for me, pick ingredients from over here" is the main driver, i expect.
mircea_popescu: i imagine a larger driver is that a) "restaurants" saw the "opportunity" to turn into caterers and "prepare" pre-prepared meals and b) nobody trusts their fucking acquisition process.
ben_vulpes: "no, honey, we're not going out. you cook better, plate better, and do it all in the nude. i am not paying for designer lights, too much salt, and shitty hipster wait staff drinking habits. plus you'll want to tip 20% for completely miserable service and i just got my shoes off."
thestringpuller: waiters are generally shitty at their job too, cause "I'll be an actress one day!"
mircea_popescu: run a fucking business rather than a morroccan tourist trap and have some fucking self respect.
mircea_popescu: soon enough it'll just be "double the bill".
mircea_popescu: and meanwhile, when i visited the us people generally tipped 10% and derps were derping about how it's really not enough and should be more like 15%. incidentally looked on reddit the other day, "Everyone agrees" it should be over 20%.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is crack still going on in DC? or do the white people still live on the otherside of the ptomic
asciilifeform: from billboard on other side of my commute: 'new townhomes in low 600s !'
asciilifeform: 'how the world works!111' (tm)
mircea_popescu: 15% a year or thereabouts.
ben_vulpes: my parents bought their current residence in...94? for 230k, are now batting away offers for 900+. i relent on the rounding error.
asciilifeform: (it isn't as if they were of any serious amplitude, or even fluctuated in any particular phase to salaries, interest rates, or other relevant number)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the fluctuations come nowhere near making an actual palpable difference to anybody, ever.
ben_vulpes: i'm not trying to argue against the property bezzle!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you have any idea what housing cost in the 80s ?
asciilifeform: http://koin.com/2016/01/23/we-the-people-petition-white-house-to-arrest-bundy << linked from same rag. по просьбам трудящихся !111111 (tm) (r)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: portland goes through a boom-bust property cycle at about twice the frequency of the national market
asciilifeform: because if it caves in, the whole thing caves
asciilifeform: except in jail they feed you and you (in most of usa) don't have to work
ben_vulpes: epic inventory hitting the market q4 2016 q2 2017
mircea_popescu: i get it, if you're visiting the 3 floor, 100k sqft country house of the marquis de Q you might not be fucking EVERYONE there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion of sharing space and not fucking is almost as ridiculous as the notion of female wearing clothes before 30.
asciilifeform: we have gigantic towers of these very same things here, and more being built as we speak
ben_vulpes: on the flip side i have a far better understanding of how linux machines boot now. so, not a particularly horrendous waste of time.
mircea_popescu: speaking of insane idiocies. one apt i'm leasing i nthe fabulous ba has the following INSANE arrangement : two bedrooms, united by a 3x3 hallway, off one side of which is a 3x4 bathroom, and off the corner of which is... ANOTHER, tiny, 1x2 bathroom.
asciilifeform: phun phakt, my father's childhood was in a flat where the toilet ~literally~ was in the kitchen, behind a curtain.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would be horrified at the state of my internal network
ben_vulpes: and let the fucking laptop run out of batteries 2 seconds after running `emerge dhcpcd`
ben_vulpes: i got the whole orchestra wired up, stage3 installed, everything mounted, uefi boot boss vanquished
mircea_popescu: imaqine all the people...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except cunt's not made out of soap, to wear off. it strengthens through usage.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can be. context dependent. above usage is just assumption that mircea_popescu can magic gurlz out of the air in bsas gutter, river plate shores, nile and probably inside the pyramids even
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i thought it was traditionally 'cunt with the rifling worn off'
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cooze | A cooze is a superficial, shallow, provincial, and generally ignorant girl, who is so intellectually and socially repulsive, that their only r...
ben_vulpes: met them through a south african who coached the greek olympic polo? dressage? teams before greece stopped paying for niceties like that.
ben_vulpes: have approximately zero pesos to rub together.
ben_vulpes: put together a lovely parillada.
ben_vulpes: and who raise their children on horses.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the polo thing you mean ?
thestringpuller: thing is actually pretty fast, but upkeep seems a bit high, and of course the thing eventually dies
mircea_popescu: yeah well. horse maintenance is a lotta work. the whole horseback thing is a honest signal of a hierarchical society.
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: there is a d00d who sold his car for horse at livestock auction where my gf lives.
adlai: recently tlv municipality outlawed horse-driven antique furniture carts ("alte zachen"), yet another law nobody cares about
ben_vulpes: and fwiw i'd rather ride a horse too.
ben_vulpes: and as a matter of fact horses /are/ allowed on the road.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this mile long column exist regardless of cyclist in my neck of the woods
ben_vulpes: sane places seperate the traffic.
mircea_popescu: i never lived anywhere that wouldn't have just splattered the derp.
asciilifeform: does pedal man know how much fuel is wasted by the mile-long column stuck behind him ?
asciilifeform: as a driver, i always despised the self-righteous pedaller who was convinced that he 'saved mother earth'
adlai: thestringpuller: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-01-2016#1370925 (althoug i am not an exception to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382985 )
thestringpuller: i'd rather just not sit in traffic and get more fat, that is one step above purgatory.
mircea_popescu: because he's poor, young and in the way.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i've nothing against it per se but it is firmly linked in my head with the third world
thestringpuller: why is everyone hating on cyclist? you alfie of all people stuck in the horrid traffic of DC on a daily basis.
ben_vulpes: it'll be rather easy to turn that into a bloodthirsty hunt for californians alter.
asciilifeform: trains in d.c. are interesting in that they carry folks from hobo to gs-15
adlai: asciilifeform: so amsterdam must literally be the circles of hell for you :P
ben_vulpes: and the cultural hatred of cars runs very deep.
ben_vulpes: ah well those are absent and generally reserved for the poverty stricken or physically disabled
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many folks use editors that automatically insert the doubleifdef-preventer thing
ben_vulpes: the notion of a functional town only mildly corrupted by cars must be as foreign to you as an atomic dirigible.
asciilifeform: (do any of them commute by riksha ?)
mircea_popescu: http://tweetnacl.cr.yp.to/20131229/tweetnacl.h << for my own education, why the fuck does a .h file in a 2 file project need to say #ifndef TWEETNACL_H #define TWEETNACL_H endif ?
asciilifeform: 978 motherfucking keywords in ansi std.
thestringpuller: maybe not for alfie who came out the womb with a commodore64 or some shiznit
adlai: thestringpuller: if you really want to learn CL, get used to feeling lost because it takes a couple years / decades to reach all the keys on this piano
ben_vulpes: php and c are actually bigger pains in the ass and less useable than any lisp
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: oh ffs sit down with clojure for a week if you're so scared
mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, senor vulpes understands quite exactly what i don't like about the subculture.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the kind that puts caltrops in front of trucks on a highway ?
adlai: asciilifeform: because they'll mix up set, setf, get, getf, and never quite understand the long form expansion definitions
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: possibly. but iirc that one was quite ready for the glue factory
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: aren't there a million open source for 'em to get cycled through? each no doubt in need of deproblematizing some codebase of genderered nouns?
mircea_popescu: this is the traditional pathway of the derp. spends youth being inept, adolescence being revolutionary, gets metabolized by sub-slut grade female into "family unit"
asciilifeform: or do they rebarrel'em somewhere.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where do you suppose they put spent ninjashotguns ?
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:03:25; thestringpuller: i barely "know" C, how am I ever gonna learn LISP?!?!?
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382886 << for starters, stop capitalizing it... LISP is from the same era as ALGOL and nobody uses either one today
mircea_popescu: of course the correct method to learn greek consists of reading the source material and the angry german commentary in alternation.
asciilifeform: n00bz should not only read the logz but be grateful they don't have to learn 5,000 kanji first.
mircea_popescu: i just read it as "the difference between one's understanding and the course requirement, call it D, is the maximal aperture past which useful metaphors (with an utility marked as U) and inept strawmen (with a deviance marked as -U) can still be distinguished"
thestringpuller: if they rip out OpenSSL for libsecp256k1 won't this cause undeterministic behavior in signature checking? Or does the "comooniteee" just want to not check signatures anymore?
mircea_popescu: the one thing i wonder, asciilifeform , is why do we always talk in strawmen.
asciilifeform: and even there folks chortled when i asked 'notice no mention of complexity class proof or even assumption'
asciilifeform: funnily enough, we did a walkover of the shmoo talks, incl. the crackpot algebraiceraser crypto thing, at the slave galley
mircea_popescu: it's another... eh, anyway. what am i doing.
mircea_popescu: it's one thing when five people who spend most of their time doing things gather in bohr's outhouse and agree "x is prolly hard".
mircea_popescu: and incidentally, as a bright mathematical mind pointed out once, "at some point the effort invested in stating rsa is 'widely researched' exceeds the effort ever expended into researching it"
asciilifeform: (as secure as 8x the bits of rsa!1111111)
asciilifeform: see also the ecc claptrap
asciilifeform: don't expect ~sane~ crypto out of the leprosorium
mircea_popescu: "this bag is as heavy as that car. we don't know whether that car is just a cardboard cutout or what, but hey, provedly heavy bag! !1"
mircea_popescu: dude speaking of "provability" bs. FSB are "provably secure" because it can be proven they're at least as hard as regular syndrome decoding. which is np complete. while we don't actually know if THAT is in fact resolvable in polynomial time or not, nevertheless... PROVEDLY SECURE!!11
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: yes. see also earlier link.
mircea_popescu: http://static.dudeiwantthat.com//img/household/bathroom/jacuzzi-entertainment-system-5501.jpg << in other news, the new york apartment of the future.
mircea_popescu: but i suspect this heavy... butted aesop is a little too hamfisted for the actual butts in question.
mircea_popescu: anyway, my idea was originalyl that it's a collaborative tool par excellence. girls better support each other's back, lest they fall in.
mircea_popescu: "would this be a punishment toilet ? for like the dungeon ?" "do you think the jacuzzi is a punishment pool ?" "ewww!"
asciilifeform: cray 1 rather
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, i now envision your toilet-of-the-future as looking rather like a cray-II.
thestringpuller: "When you handle the master carpenter's tools, chances are that you'll cut your hand."
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: will have to spend a weekend, possibly risk opening a book
thestringpuller: LISP is like the masters saw.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: my personal favourite readily-available lisp runtime
mircea_popescu: anyway, as a general point : even if you did compute a fastest route, and even if in fact you are correct (which is fundamentally an undecidable problem), there is still no reason to panic if phenomena goes a slightly more circuitous path. there are at least two good reasons, both political. one's education (ie, benefit of the ingroup), the other ... well let's just say the other's for the benefit of the outgroup.
asciilifeform: and nobody even notices the cpp is gone.
asciilifeform: until the whole thing, one fine day, starts just fine in a mildly massaged sbcl
asciilifeform: implement tx debugger, sane logger instrumentation, and 101 other things, IN IT
mircea_popescu: anyway. it's one thing to add "a library". it's another to "import this 1k lines that i read myself".
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 16:09:28; asciilifeform: adding an ~additional~ turd to the ball of shit, is not.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382843 << in italian accent "Did you ever think about what you're going to do on the toilet? (yelling) What are you going to do on the toilet!"
mircea_popescu: re BingoBoingo 's https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993/4006420 << check out the ugly head of puritanism rearing its head yet again. "if i don't enjoy anything in the world i will surely be spared doom!!1". nothing's quite as resilient as idiocy.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382830 << not so. the first step of work is cleaning out the workspace. it is the work of truly inept management to impede on this "because it does not directly contribute to productivity"
mircea_popescu: heh im bashing that baby stuff. alf huffed the right paint this morning :D
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 15:55:03; asciilifeform: and the logical replacement is sexpr.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 16:17:47; PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376728 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376731 << Later I realized why I missed the isomer joke: L is isomer of D, R is isomer of S, not quite interchangeable
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381103 << seems like everybody who doesn't lurk in #crypto-crackpots missed the joke
asciilifeform: 'let's add the library' is, in mircea_popescu's well-chosen wordz, 'the hole through which the night slides in'
asciilifeform: with that in mind, YES, the logs need timestamps, or better still, an adjustable format, verbosity levels, etc.
asciilifeform: ~likewise~ any change that increases substantially the number of lines written by non-wot folks, is ipso facto a loss.
asciilifeform: (as discussed in the c++11 thread)
asciilifeform: removing boost would be a worthy thing. BUT NOT if it multiplies the line count 2x, OR if it entails forcing gcc5 build
asciilifeform: adding an ~additional~ turd to the ball of shit, is not.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 15:11:54; punkman: https://github.com/SergiusTheBest/plog interesting logging library, less than 1kloc, includes simple log rotation
asciilifeform: and the ocean is made of boiling oil.
asciilifeform: anyway i did not touch the json thing for the same reason i did not touch the whitespace formatting
asciilifeform: i.e. something built by the hands of ACTUAL people, that WORKED, but taken by jolt-cola-drinking jwz types and 'hacked!111 1333773d' into... what we have
punkman: so if I talk to to bitcoind with python I get sexpr in ascii or otherwise?
asciilifeform: which is 'standard' that fits in ONE MOTHERFUCKING PARAGRAPH
asciilifeform: and the logical replacement is sexpr.
punkman: well, something for the foundation to decide, whether json is to be kept or replaced with something else
asciilifeform: ~genuine~ reduction in complexity specifically excludes shenanigans where it is 'swept under the rug' and hidden somewhere else
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:16:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380266 << yes! and you can almost ~define~ 'sane system' this way. with the caveat that it can't be a non-orthogonal fudge like a program consisting of one line 'start_bitcoind()' nor anything in that spirit. ORTHOGONAL operators.
mircea_popescu: one is code, the other standard. it helps me nothing that you've made one small if this makes the other huge.
mircea_popescu: even before wot issue considered : there's two branches to corectness.
punkman: there are some tiny json libraries
asciilifeform: punkman: when the standard does not fit-in-head and yields 200kB of heathen code - it can go die
asciilifeform: or at the worst, a simple telnet-type protocol
mircea_popescu: this strikes me as the same fundamental insanity of "we'll replace bdb with leveldb in the sense that WE KEEP BOTH!!1".
asciilifeform: i very dearly wanted to rip it out, but then all the robotics folks are presently 'come to expect' will have to be scrapped.
mircea_popescu: yes but fuck that, we have a protocol that then imports json ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, why the fuck does bitcoin have json support ? do we actually want this ?
punkman: can do the gui-snip thing first, work is already done
asciilifeform: but they gotta be separate.
asciilifeform: ok to make the two patches in one sitting
mircea_popescu: what i took it to mean was that if he's gonna load his head with shit, would rather do two things than one and reload
asciilifeform: punkman: this is very much the wrong idea
asciilifeform: the vestigial wx crapolade needs to go
punkman: mircea_popescu: start over, meaning make a new debug_sanity patch with more improvements (and without the gui snipping parts bundled together)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually may want to write him a letter, iirc he was also all about fits in head but arrived there on slightly different path
asciilifeform: so he's stuck with the ecc gargle.
asciilifeform: even if ~that would be the Right Thing~
asciilifeform: just like you don't become a famous small arms designer by refining the kalash
asciilifeform: punkman: i'm a fan of the man's cryptoanalytic work. but the sv-popularity of his cipher primitives is concerning
assbot: GitHub - SergiusTheBest/plog: Portable and simple C++ logging library ... ( http://bit.ly/1KwmNbS )
punkman: https://github.com/SergiusTheBest/plog interesting logging library, less than 1kloc, includes simple log rotation
punkman: I'd like to contribute more debug-related patches, could maybe split the gui-snip stuff from debug_sanity patch, and start over.
mircea_popescu: of course they're busy fucking around doing nothing much. but hey, gosplan!
asciilifeform: (srsly who the FUCK uses 'salsa' etc)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382579 << this is a mega-l0l, worth reading! turns out, one day they decided to play 'obfuscated c contest' at ft meade
asciilifeform: then yes.
asciilifeform: i remember very well the smoking ~boards~
asciilifeform: i am specificially thinking of ~ic~ rather than ~board~
mircea_popescu: there were, up until early 2013 or so, more dead runs than live.
mircea_popescu: so did many others.
asciilifeform: or just 'took the money & ran'
mircea_popescu: of the people who scammed their "investors, at least half, to two thirds, were scammed in turn, by their "providers".
asciilifeform: but i - obviously - wasn't there.
mircea_popescu: and so there were.
asciilifeform: afaik there were none.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if this were so, there would have been many asic co. sunk by a taped out dud
mircea_popescu: easy to reinterpret what memory salvaged of the midden of history, but if you were there and saw the missing 95% from that story...
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the whole racket stood on a solid column of chump, and was designed around such
asciilifeform: i've always wanted to do a bit of microscopy on those, see if there was a set of magicks for re-enabling the 'accidented' cores
asciilifeform: (they never got the wear circuits to behave plausibly like a real-life bathtub curve, either. so the things would routinely ship with varying number of working hash cores, etc)
mircea_popescu: http://36.media.tumblr.com/06e1a4f30719f22ffe8bd2f8abe73b1b/tumblr_nd32f8rOuT1rqs8dwo1_1280.jpg << in other news, never trust a man with a garage.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 08:59:13; punkman: "It has been quite a while since any new hardware became available, it is reasonable to assume that most small miners will have recouped the majority of what they initially outlaid for the hardware, and are now disinclined to continue ‘supporting the network’, whilst incurring unnecessary cost. So: MegaBigPowers ‘land-grab’, to acquire all this idle hashing power seems like a smart move. As,
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382561 << this seems like a deviously clever notion until you recall that most of the asic miners were - quite likely deliberately - not built to last
mircea_popescu: very fucking hard making jokes about bitcoin codebase, seeing the state it's in.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 05:33:08; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it could always curl deedbot.org for the latest.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let the guy do something useful wouldja. step at a time.
asciilifeform: (add what belongs in the pool to a new pool, then nuke what remains. also defrags...)
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 05:20:23; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382232 << even the simple step of "add flag to trb to dump mempool into file each time a block is found" would be helpful atm.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 05:23:47; mircea_popescu: and for the love of christ implement either rolling or else a maxsize for files or something.
asciilifeform: today as in '70s the man-portable small arms fire the 'intermediate' things and the squad guns - the 1890s longer one.
mircea_popescu: well yes. 39 is the old ak/sks russian thing. nato has a bigger one.
asciilifeform was very very confused until realized that mircea_popescu is counting the ~length~ of the shell !
mircea_popescu: and that's on the modest 39mm. pretty much a thing of the past, everyone doing 51 now amirite. so 2x that.
mircea_popescu: people keep mocking hollywood marksmanship. mostly because they've never been in a warzone.
mircea_popescu: dja know that the AVERAGE ammo expenditure per enemy killed is in the 2mn range by now ?
mircea_popescu: aww why the haet!
asciilifeform: and wake me up when they ~make~ a tank.
mircea_popescu: but, at this juncture, augustus' memoirs are recomended re-read. might explain the vecchio rotinculo much closer than before.
mircea_popescu: and they do not wish to be not because they somehow give a shit about brutus and brutish jealousies.
mircea_popescu: ironically, the people who could be caesar ie emperor and pontifex max uniformly do not wish to be, so much so it's almost a heuristic.
mircea_popescu: they had more dynasties than americans had sexual partners.
asciilifeform: hey it worked for the 5000yr egyptianreich!
mircea_popescu: which is why they keep inventing academic honors for the emperor. they work admirably, don't they.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have no idea how to formulate this better than to refer you to the (oft mentioned, by me) worms dispute.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, this is a flattering if incorrect representation. like saying "unfortunately whale did not have enough evolution mojo to grow wings". yeasure.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in the expression of the castrated subhumans that nevertheless are intelligent enough to notice the problem, this is usually called the "knowledge problem", ie poor state can't acquire and process enough information to make a reasonable gosplan.
mircea_popescu: i am immune to it, it depends on me. this creates a certain situation of power in the field.
asciilifeform: only because the beast is immunocompromised
mircea_popescu: which is why all the red square nuclear bomb displays and etc. obligate pompousness.
mircea_popescu: "who the fuck are you ?"
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu doesn't have an argument against gosplan ?! other than not liking the colour & shape on purely aesthetic grounds?
Azelphur: started to get really annoyed when I had the choice of taking money out of my cold wallet or taking a loan from my parents to make rent over christmas - not cool :/
mircea_popescu: ah, this IS an argument for gosplan. the only one.
mircea_popescu: the problem here is that both ox and chickens are separate from the thing they pull.
mircea_popescu: nope. it's the "brain resides in skullbox not spread out throughout cells like mitochondria".
asciilifeform: is it the '1024 chickens' idea ?
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:32:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382094 << you deeply misunderstand what "investor grade" means in this context. the point is that he is RARE. you understand this ? the fundamental property of capital control in any functioning society without exception possible is that it must be concentrated.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382242 << tell a bit about the concentrated thing
mircea_popescu: Azelphur notsure why you're not using the assbot wot anyway.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 09:03:04; kakobrekla: they sold until it was garbage, now that further decreasement in process size are hardly possible, they hold
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382567 << well, actually, they sold back when they had to take the poisoned dollars of the masses, a few bucks at a time. once they n olonger need that, they don't. who eats garbage if they can help it.
mircea_popescu: iirc the dude hated me for some reason.
mircea_popescu: thing ended up in spam, possibly because of the link
Azelphur: was great up until the whole not paying me thing
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382541 << yea, actually, the one thing bitcointalk is a source for is miner stuff. they never got any other venue , well noit publicly anyway
Azelphur: whoops, he said he'd pay me an installment of £1000ish on Monday, then said it was a bank holiday and that he would send it out Tuesday, ignored me till yesterday where he claimed he had sent it out, but honestly he has said it's sent so many times and it didn't arrive I don't trust it any more
Azelphur: punkman, yea for me I did the work, he just keeps saying he will pay and continues to delay / make excuses