mircea_popescu: aaand in other news, http://56.media.tumblr.com/93f0434c32aede5c04a5fa5560aca73e/tumblr_nha9j7eqJU1s233qio1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ". The petrified paper pushers, afraid that actual strong cryptography might catch on among the cattle caste, has sent their favorite stooge to discredit the event." << have sent
mircea_popescu: ask them next you see them at one of their inept "conferences", sprouting with unwarranted cockyness whatev er bullshit, what happened of their support for this ?
mircea_popescu: anyway. let us remind at this juncture that various blathering imbeciles, such as that dude from coinbase, or that dude from the nsa, or that other dude from the nsa, or that other derp "supported" this raging lunacy.
mircea_popescu: assbot: Michael Toomin explains his meltdown, and the structure of Bitcoin Classic (45 min in!) << dude, i don't care if he gives away clinton's hairy snatch and the secret of immortality 45 minutes in. who the fuck has the time for this sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: first off birds don't just move. they're more adverse to living the swamp they for no good reason call home than alf is. and for the other, demand doesn't create scarcity, that whole branch's not even wrong.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 07:08:57; pete_dushenski: disneyesque animalia as. changing gruntwork jobs (which is what power generation is), ceretis paribus, doesn't matter in the slightest to the global ecological footprint. if anything, as bitcoin mining grows into even the double-digits of global power use, it will create a scarcity of electricity for non-mining uses, driving up prices in those other domains, thus decreasing less essential usage, decr
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had the tits thing. similar !
asciilifeform: and then same, layed out using heads.
asciilifeform: wake me up when they have captured nato soldiers write the pubkey out in the sand with the blood of own severed hands.
asciilifeform: all this aside, the thing is entirely indistinguishable from the most idiotic imaginable fake.
mircea_popescu: this is like "i am officially the king of caspiar"
assbot: Edward Snowden on Twitter: "Journos: The #ISIS video's "encrypted email" is confirmed fake. If any official responds as if it's real, push back. https://t.co/fKHAAk1SAa" ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJDfJO )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform watch that some towelhead with a quart of brie between his legs stole some code and did the usual "i am 15 yo coder and i can replace strings" thing to it.
asciilifeform: on the same planet where gpg prints 'Decrypting......'
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 06:20:57; pete_dushenski: and i just searched for the key id listed there, neither 1650H76 nor 1658OH76 yielded any hits. but then again, why should it ? (aside from the comedic value)
asciilifeform: 7 was a product of the actual apple co. (vs rebranded 'next')
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 05:49:50; ben_vulpes: in another universe i'd be entirely happy with seven.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385046 << what's the difference between that universe and this ? (entirely innocent quesiton, i never used os-apple)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sense everyone's mp. aspirational sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just like the nigger-death of a naive white libtard is only covered by rags that also cover all sorts of other race insanities.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> mega-unsurprise. << this "everyone can do it - you could be next - make 10 gazillion renting out the space inside your nose" narrative must be driven!!1
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 13:22:22; punkman: http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/flint-residents-told-that-their-children-could-be-taken-away-if-they-dont-pay-for-citys-poison-water.html
punkman: why is the journal of craptology full of song videos?
asciilifeform: and therefore fashionable.
asciilifeform: also from the link it looks as if he 'produced' it rather than actually wrote anything
asciilifeform: (and i find it very strange that an adult would play a solitaire, it seems like a serious symptom of 'has no theorems to prove')
assbot: Flint Residents Told That Their Children Could Be Taken Away If They Don’t Pay For City's Poison Water ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJqdTN )
punkman: http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/flint-residents-told-that-their-children-could-be-taken-away-if-they-dont-pay-for-citys-poison-water.html
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385027 << cool, 5GW over their lifetime will be just enough to cover the energy cost of hauling in replacements.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 04:47:39; *: BingoBoingo once he completes the re-reading list would like to publish a book, or at least a lecture series title "The Will To Hodl"
jurov: danielpbarron(and other folks in my WoT): we're using transferwise, works quick and swell so far. For N euro that arrives to my account you get N/1.02 x.eur, discount possible if you can commit to schedule.
BingoBoingo: In other decentralization news from the mines https://torrentfreak.com/oldest-torrent-is-still-being-shared-after-4419-days-160124/
thestringpuller: already selling out to corporations and they didn't even need lobbyist this time!
thestringpuller: lol i remember when the falcons played the broncos in the superbowl, and we actually thought we stood a chance.
BingoBoingo: Anyways for people who care about the NFL chain (maybe BitBet) A Denver Broncos versus Carolina Panthers superbowl was mined.
thestringpuller: digital marekting will likely implode before the next decade. look at the overvaluation of coindesk and coin telegraph where the revenue is entirely that.
BingoBoingo: I dunno how much to bank on that. The web is ever changing
thestringpuller: ^- the one that was on qntra sometime last year
BingoBoingo: Maybe next year or five years from now we get a revenue in excess of hosting that allows for dividends? Who knows? The future is full of mysteries!
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: You know if you could do 10 of these 120 word things a month that would be 1200 s.qntr which are redeemable for...
BingoBoingo: The piece's saving grace is that it was short and thorough.
thestringpuller: pre-bitcoin you'd invest in setting up botnet and then monetize the botnet. seems now just put that money into ransomware instead of the botnet.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: You piece is going up as soon as I harmonize some of the vocabulary.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: he's improving Coffeescript these days
fluffypony: truly one of the great minds of this generation
assbot: Michael Toomin explains his meltdown, and the structure of Bitcoin Classic (45 min in!) : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1niRThM )
BingoBoingo: Soon on fox news: "The lead developer of Bitcoin arrested for drug charges" >> https://archive.is/y7Wjv#selection-4251.0-4251.75
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:30:26; *: asciilifeform observes that this thread has already taken up more space than the patch.
pete_dushenski: it's the dead steve bounce
ben_vulpes: is that a head and shoulders or death cross or some other technical trading thing?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: With same language you can program the two best portable computers ever. The TI-89 and the TI-92
BingoBoingo: Who needs boost when you have the full expressive power of motorola 68k assembly?
pete_dushenski: disneyesque animalia as. changing gruntwork jobs (which is what power generation is), ceretis paribus, doesn't matter in the slightest to the global ecological footprint. if anything, as bitcoin mining grows into even the double-digits of global power use, it will create a scarcity of electricity for non-mining uses, driving up prices in those other domains, thus decreasing less essential usage, decreasing the n
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385035 << this makes no sense. if your gf is a secretary and she moves from paper company (A) to another paper company (B) of the same size and just as far from home and for the same pay (but without that bitch midge from accounts payable), the paper industry will make no more "evil ghg", nor kill more fuzzy penguins or whatever it is you imagine anthropomorphised
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I'll have you know that in the cleaning I've done since last message I dusted a perfectly good machine capable of running OS 7, if only I'd plug in in and the caps haven't gone pop since October when I last plugged it in...
pete_dushenski: "first they came for isis for using pgp, but i did nothing. then they... oh wait. they couldn't so anything against isis anyways so what sort of nyooz is this!"
pete_dushenski: ah well then. maybe it was just another lulzy idea that was in fact a thinly veiled hatchet job. alas.
pete_dushenski: and i just searched for the key id listed there, neither 1650H76 nor 1658OH76 yielded any hits. but then again, why should it ? (aside from the comedic value)
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384621 << looks like this part of the message is... inside the message. so not pgptron's doing. still, why ? allahusnackbar only knows, but given that they're all probably mega-crypto noobs, it's not inconceivable to imagine this note's use case, even it seems beyond retarded to (i expect) everyone here.
pete_dushenski: someone has done their 6 months of log readings
ben_vulpes: in another universe i'd be entirely happy with seven.
ben_vulpes: i am now apparently engaged in an exercise to determine what the oldest version of os x is that can be beaten into supporting software development
BingoBoingo imagines ghetto wildlife relocating to Portland where they tend to be welcomed
mats: i'm not so sure the wildlife will agree
BingoBoingo: Not a disaster, would actually solve the mine subsidence problem in a lot of areas
mod6: yeah, there will be a time when discussions will start around a project like this.
BingoBoingo: If Bitcoin needs half of ALL the watts it's going to have to happen
mod6: around here, and especially in southern MN & all over Iowa they have HUGE wind turbines in place.
assbot: Hennepin Island Hydroelectric Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZMqhxX )
BingoBoingo: Those dams are weak though. I'm talking south of the Ohio river confluence
mod6: there are dams already, there is one I was just looking at in minneapolis while standing outside in -20 weather. looked reasonable to me! haha.
BingoBoingo: mod6: When do you think it would make sense to dam the Mississippi river to generate hydroelectric power for mining?
mod6: And V mirror has been updated, as well as the graph (http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html)
BingoBoingo: ^ i.e. the testing on exotic hardware appears to be fading
BingoBoingo: stop them, in order to ship. Those two to three months time, it's a lot
BingoBoingo once he completes the re-reading list would like to publish a book, or at least a lecture series title "The Will To Hodl"
assbot: These beans is shit.
mod6: here's what it looks like with only spaces in there (much more similar to Mr. P.'s (second)): http://dpaste.com/03MMVP8.txt
mod6: we'll get there, just gotta keep driving towards our goals.
mod6: hmm. so then, I believe if i remove the tabs from my S-patch and leave the spaces ~in~, then it'll look more like Mr. P.'s patch he put together.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform well, if there's no consensus, there's no consensus and there it goes. <+mircea_popescu> poor mod6 gets no week off! << ok so no consensus on the space/tabs issue at this time.
mircea_popescu: "what happens if a miner includes a bogus tx you say ? oh, the other miners would never extend that chain!" "wait, didn't those same other miners extend a chain that failed the rulechange they supposedly voted for ?" "sfyl".
mircea_popescu: ("Note that even level 6 does not do signature/script checking." is prolly the best part in all of that junk.)
mircea_popescu: then later went from $$$___MAGIC_nUmBeR...you are not expected to understand how this works...ReBmUn_CIGAM___$$$ = 2500 to $$$___MAGIC_nUmBeR...you are not expected to understand how this works...ReBmUn_CIGAM___$$$ = 288
mircea_popescu: back when they added "check level" too, maybe 0.9 ?
asciilifeform: did they call it something else ?
asciilifeform: incidentally -verifyall was not in the classical bitcoin !
BingoBoingo: <thestringpuller> so. they took out verifyall in core bitcoind and replaced it with -reindex. -reindex doesn't disregard checkpoints. or at least no one knows if it does or not. how do these people have Ph.D's and shit? << -reindex and -verifyall are two different things.
ben_vulpes: the abominable variable naming alignment, yes
asciilifeform: and them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a raft of cosmetic/credible fixes between .5 and .6.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:58:21; mod6: I'm not an expert on the openssl internals. If you think I should not trust ECDSA_do_sign and reimplment with ECDSA_sign, I can.
asciilifeform: polarbeard: didja write a patch and i missed it reading the log ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps rejecting workers because they forgot to wipe their ass this morning also ?
asciilifeform: i'm not even opposed to the thing getting retabulated on releases.
mircea_popescu: hey, if the change is not obviously a good thing it's probably a bad idea. it pisses me the fuck off, but whatevs, i'll sed or something.
ben_vulpes: only reasonable style guide for this codebase is "make it look like the lines immediately above and below"
asciilifeform: the people whose crap i cannot stand reading, are the ones WITHOUT A CONSISTENT style.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, if there's no consensus, there's no consensus and there it goes.
assbot: And Gavin moves on to the dark side. The Bitcoin project is officially hijacked on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvB8Kx )
mircea_popescu: see http://trilema.com/2013/and-gavin-moves-on-to-the-dark-side-the-bitcoin-project-is-officially-hijacked/
asciilifeform: generally i see 'style guide' as a thing between the writer and his gods
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: look who removed the magicnum https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/9ef7fa34
asciilifeform: indentation to the ( in an if ( ... etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not sign them.
mircea_popescu: the do version ultimately returns return ecdsa->meth->ecdsa_do_sign(dgst, dlen, kinv, rp, eckey); while the no-do version just calls the do version.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 02:22:44; mircea_popescu: this'd be the last juncture at which people who seriously and staunchly are against the space to tab switch should raise hell.
mircea_popescu: http://openssl.sourcearchive.com/documentation/0.9.8o-5ubuntu1/ecs__sign_8c_source.html#l00067 << they're here.
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> yeh, so is this still a qntra article or..? << If you submit something with all of the point brought up it channel, its chance of publication is a weighted coinflip. Depends what you can make of it.
ben_vulpes: i will point out that changing to the wrapper implementation implies audits to be done of the implementation delta.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller verification of any functional kind is the sworn enemy of anyone with phds. thinkaboutit.
mircea_popescu: must point to ECDSA_size bytes of memory, the parameter type ~is ignored~). Meanwhile ECDSA_do_sign_ex() computes a digital signature of the dgst_len bytes hash value dgst using the private key eckey and the optional precomputed values kinv and rp. The signature is returned in a newly allocated ECDSA_SIG structure (or NULL on error).
mircea_popescu: ECDSA_sign() is wrapper function for ECDSA_sign_ex with kinv and rp set to NULL ; ECDSA_do_sign() is wrapper function for ECDSA_do_sign_ex with kinv and rp set to NULL. ECDSA_sign_ex() computes a digital signature of the dgstlen bytes hash value dgst using the private EC key eckey and the optional pre-computed values kinv and rp. The DER encoded signatures is stored in sig and it's length is returned in sig_len. (sig
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:36:11; asciilifeform: what's the diff b/w 'ECDSA_sign' and 'ECDSA_do_sign' ?
ben_vulpes: "father's pistols"?
thestringpuller: so. they took out verifyall in core bitcoind and replaced it with -reindex. -reindex doesn't disregard checkpoints. or at least no one knows if it does or not. how do these people have Ph.D's and shit?
polarbeard: 'corel devs did that on purpos to split the comuniteh!'
mod6: yeah, and this should make it all easier going forward to create the vpatch. overall, a good move sooner rather than later imho.
mircea_popescu: this'd be the last juncture at which people who seriously and staunchly are against the space to tab switch should raise hell.
mod6: agreed. let's try to keep it just down to the tabs for now.
mircea_popescu: and while it'd be tempting to overload it with stuff like moving the {, i would think it's better not to. make it simple and sweet to check.
mircea_popescu: so we'll have the 99996 > 99995 be "all tabulation, machine checkable"
mircea_popescu: oh ok, my bad. so what i was thinking here is : a) finish the patch ; b) do all the other stuff you were going to do in your own time ; c) when ready make a new version ; d) take a week off, during which everyone [who cares to] can write and run a script to / /
mircea_popescu: i guess i unwittingly confused you, sorry about that. the S-patch was not actually intended to mark a new release did it ?
mod6: Nothing more than "send to the list", if its current form 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' is acceptable.
mod6: Ok sounds good mircea_popescu. I'll stop my current work on the high/low patch. I'll spend this week getting the changes [.wot in the pwd, and mechanical post-patch hash checking] in V [v99996] released. Then I'll immediately begin work on a re-alignment of all the patches we currently are distributing.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:23:27; mod6: so what we want, is three different ways: no force one way or another, force high, or force low. remember, i originally didn't want to do a force high at all. but since asciilifeform requested this, i'm entertaining this option.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384741 << stop paying attention to these dudes, optimizing the wrong shed.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:10:06; mod6: And then we can re-align post release.
mircea_popescu: so you get a week off or something, during which people just run teh script and sign the results.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:04:29; mod6: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes et. al., any further thoughts if we should clean up the code alignment (currently with spaces) post release and do a one-time clean up with tabs?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384722 << well, the proposal was for you to release current, 99996 or what it comes to, after which take a step back and do a clean of the spaces, make it 99995
ben_vulpes: mod6: are you referring to fixing the magic numbers?
ben_vulpes: that'd be closest to the original code
mod6: I'm not an expert on the openssl internals. If you think I should not trust ECDSA_do_sign and reimplment with ECDSA_sign, I can.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:20:05; mod6: does anyone have any pref on the commented out DEBUG statements for the finalized one? just remove them?
mod6: so the deal there is that was just some debugging info -- that may be useful to someone at some point.
ben_vulpes: appears to be a wrapper around do_sign to some extent or another
ben_vulpes: which is not the blessed openssl, but...
asciilifeform: reading the proposed patch
asciilifeform: but i do not know the difference
asciilifeform: what's the diff b/w 'ECDSA_sign' and 'ECDSA_do_sign' ?
mod6: i think there seems to be questions around why i have two booleans.
asciilifeform: mod6: ok. the rationale for my suggested thing was that no-flag ought to revert to 100% classical behaviour
ben_vulpes: oh come now asciilifeform like we don't waste time on vastly more trivial shit all the time
ben_vulpes: i have a hard time giving a shit about the ergonomics when it's covered in finger-snipping blades already.
asciilifeform observes that this thread has already taken up more space than the patch.
polarbeard: 0 is the default, you may give -forceS=0 though, but that has no effect
polarbeard: you can use signeds, and then -1 0 1
mod6: If we simply get rid of 'fHighS' and 'fLowS' and replace with say 'fForceS', then how can we differentiate between entering into the high or low if block?
mod6: so what we want, is three different ways: no force one way or another, force high, or force low. remember, i originally didn't want to do a force high at all. but since asciilifeform requested this, i'm entertaining this option.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:36:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379490 << rather than have the statement checking for luser who set both flags high and barfing, why not have two flags, e.g., 'forceS' and 'lowhighS'.
mod6: And then we can re-align post release.
mod6: I'm prefectly happy to reconstruct the patch with spaces to stay in alignment with the current (albiet unwated) spacing scheme.
mod6: So the difference in 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' is that the block of code in Sign() is spaced with tabs. And to Mr. P.'s point it should probably be all in a file or nothing. Otherwise its mis-matched. Some with spaces, some with tabs.
mod6: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes et. al., any further thoughts if we should clean up the code alignment (currently with spaces) post release and do a one-time clean up with tabs?
asciilifeform: as for prb, it doesn't like talking to trb (esp. with the malleus patch)
trinque: odd that it's trivial to figure out where I moved the deedbot- node, yet... works now.
ben_vulpes: unless the kid's up at 4 or whatever, i rarely actually interact with him.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> yeah cuz crazy argentines, they're like excited sheep in the airport. << haha, it was a big crowd. You picked me out pretty quick.
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 14:40:14; mircea_popescu: "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people.
ben_vulpes: ENTIRELY unrelated: http://thismighthurt.tumblr.com/post/137653621429/siren-school-by-isabella-rotman-buy-the-comic << girl sends this along
mod6: Being honest and forthcoming about matters will always go much father with me than anything else. ftr.
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: I asked somebody if assbot can be forced to forget the nick, it can't
polarbeard: maybe one day, I don't kiss in the first date
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: coulda kept the nick, but registered a new key and we'd be in the same spot.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6, polarbeard, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: y'all follow? << this is my 0.00000002: If you don't trust a man, no matter what his keyid is today, how can i ignore that and trust a new ident? The correct thing to do as a man, admit your mistake, and or ask for forgiveness and move on. Simple as that. We're all adults here.
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: hey can you confirm for the log that you understand what's going on with your various idents?
mod6: heh, there was such a crowd at the exit of the security area, me and Mr. P. walked right by eachother I think.
ben_vulpes: i'd seen the photos from c2, 'twas how i knew you and mike_c
ben_vulpes: same way everyone else singles you out of the crowd lol
asciilifeform: first time i was to see mircea_popescu, i actually had no idea how he will pick me out of the crowd at the airport. but he did.
ben_vulpes: heh that is an interesting hole in the keysigning party i guess
jurov: you think that deaf idiot at the conference was really me?
ben_vulpes: (while it may appear to /you/ that the mega participants in this cult are disembodied names, /we/ all know each other -- names, geographic locations, general type of employ, but /you/ do not have this [or i'll point out] any pedigree here)
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: i certainly see the rationale here
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, i think you nailed the matter, can be laid to rest.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: potentially. can mention all of these points.
asciilifeform: and i won't even comment on the nonsensical contents.
ben_vulpes: someone can show up tomorrow and claim to be tiberius, tat, smickles, and until they sign with keys that prove it they're either joking or some other thing i don't understand
mircea_popescu: <jurov> merely tasking them to understand existing code is sufficient. "and no, you're not allowed to redo it nor pull libraries" << jurov has it.
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 09:44:19; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 << if by external you mean: does not introduce further dependencies into the codebase, maybe, depending on the tool
ben_vulpes: and given that the character's lost or whatevered those keys, i don't see any reason for a) that to change or b) influence how the wot regards polarbeard
asciilifeform: where is the kennedy assassination dossier it promised.
jurov: merely tasking them to understand existing code is sufficient. "and no, you're not allowed to redo it nor pull libraries"
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384565 << i offer that such folks be given a chance to stop, asked nicely. after this, to be hit with a heavy blunt object. and then hit again, and again, until they are no longer a danger to others.
asciilifeform: though the cited bit is still disgusting
asciilifeform: it was introduced in the... guess...
asciilifeform: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2012/Jul/13 but interestingly the classical tinyscheme does not even have the original 0day
asciilifeform: to save five lines but add an hour to the time of anybody trying to actually grasp the meaning ?
asciilifeform: which would be the 'ideal'
mircea_popescu: i dunno how to explain it otherwise.
mircea_popescu: the sad truth is that this is a very specific sort of ideal.
asciilifeform: folks who produce 'gems' like this, are prime candidates for http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Iran-Finger-Amputation-ISNA-3.jpg
mircea_popescu: more generally, there's no algebra with a 1 but not a 0 in this sense afaik.
asciilifeform: we actually don't have an algebra for entropy measures, other than shannon's
mircea_popescu: no but this is important. the measure is not 0-> but (undefined) ->
asciilifeform: but it is possible to ionize the sausage.
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as "entirely destructured".
asciilifeform: the ~structure~ kills.
asciilifeform: now freeze it solid, do the same...
asciilifeform: when i explain this to folks, i like to use the example of liquid nitrogen sausage
mircea_popescu: not only "there's nothing common about common sense" - but there's a very good reason for this. common sense is decentralized system poison.