a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:53 diana_coman: no; you can however spend it on something else and I somehow never manage to run out of "something else"; but yes, I can see the idea; I don't know about who is there to do all the work and get it all growing
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911825 <-- tbh, other than the opportunity cost, I'm not even entirely sure of the details of *what* work this involves, i.e. cu ce se mananca. or whether I have what it takes etc. but I'm curious of the outcome, given the current state of ro politics. I live here, for one, so...
mp_en_viaje: "Anamaria Suru, în vârstă de 29 de ani, a fost găsită fără viaţă, luni, 22 aprilie, pe marginea unui drum forestier din pădurea din localitatea Secu, la aproximativ trei kilometri de Reşiţa." for the dead hookers files.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 22:09 mircea_popescu: in other news, mp takes girl to picnic at neighbourhood park, she goes naked, within 15 minutes there's half a dozen local cops around the blanket being all concerned.
mp_en_viaje: ie, 13 yo girl past abortion, father is 63yo neightbour ; some chick stripped naked in moldavia, evidently she must be insane (spoke french, which no sane people ever do, esp women), taken over to mental hospital by fire dept) argie levels of lulz ; anon faggot ("clothes designer") beaten up by his bf. cuz obv gotta be gay if "clothes designer"
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in other topics, "O fată în vârstă de 13 ani, din comuna Negomir, judeţul Gorj, este însărcinată în cinci luni, după ce ar fi întreţinut relaţii sexuale cu un vecin în vârstă de 63 de ani." ; "Studentă la medicină, goală puşcă în centrul Iaşului. A fost prinsă de poliţişti într-o scară de bloc. Tânăra de 26 de ani vorbea în limba franceză, scrie presa locală.
diana_coman: I don't think there is much that in there; different sorts of ridoinculous as far as I can see i.e. the schmuck that found himself with money vs the schmucks that found themselves "writing a newspaper".
a111: Logged on 2019-02-02 22:53 mircea_popescu: you mean the idle schmuck that had a topless wife for an occasion once and they all threw a ridoinculous fit ?
mp_en_viaje: apparently dood went bankrupt, ran off to miami, came back sovereign citizen living with wife, mom and grandmother.
diana_coman: I had to switch to another machine to load that bzi stuff; that photo is basically "happy trio with various caps and beretts"
mp_en_viaje: imagine this fucking horror, some dork stabs you in your sleep and then it's like "here, let me tell you what i think about chick-fill-a"
diana_coman: funny how the elect are ~always those unlikely to have much chance fighting back
mp_en_viaje: https://www.bzi.ro/milionarul-dan-camarzan-s-a-schimbat-in-totalitate-de-ceva-timp-a-fost-retinut-de-politisti-pentru-omor-692802 << subject. apparently ro millionaire "joined a cult", strangled his grandmother.
diana_coman: and I'm quite sure it also ignores them down the line anyway i.e. whatever you tick or not tick, it still does the same thing
mp_en_viaje: in other luzl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Q5CY1/?raw=true << euro wank re "informed consent" resulted in... automated solution. there's a list of cookies this fairly popular ro magazine thinks it should get to use.
diana_coman: well, one uniform or another; being about as "right" as choosing that uniform over the other
mp_en_viaje: romanians are fucking hysterical too, you aware they all dress alike ? there's this unviersal cvasi-goretex thing they ALL MUST WEAR
mp_en_viaje: automatisms, right ? they just wanted it to be good, and to no tbe disturbed.
mp_en_viaje: why i don't regret the above booklet like i don't regret http://trilema.com/2011/sfinta-inocenta-puberala/
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, the idea is for it to be fun ; and it's fun when it's this thing of excellence, "what's the absolute best that could be done here".
mp_en_viaje: but it did produce http://trilema.com/2013/romanias-new-right/#comment-93307 l which i daresay is one of the finest bits i ever wrote in romanian, not to mention a fineer piece than the iron guard ever produced
diana_coman: heh, I'm probably too much used to ground-up building work i.e. if starting that then will have to get it off the ground with own hands if need be; hence -> time.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:06 spyked: mp_en_viaje, re new ro party, what's the reasoning behind it? what would be different vs. http://trilema.com/2013/romanias-new-right/ ?
mp_en_viaje: but conversely : if there is someone we'll be none the sorrier for it. and if there isn't... what exactly do i have to regret re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911779 thing ? that i spent a few grand on getting that party the only headquarters it eve rhad ? or what, some booze some kids drank off me ?
diana_coman: no; you can however spend it on something else and I somehow never manage to run out of "something else"; but yes, I can see the idea; I don't know about who is there to do all the work and get it all growing
mp_en_viaje: seems to me groking pre-trying whether it'll be worth it likely will cost more than the trial.
mp_en_viaje: in other words, it's pretty fucking cheap.
mp_en_viaje: and other than that, the formal criterion ~reduces to "having candidate in 3 circumscriptions" or somesuch. which whatever, you get somebody to run for communal council @ancestral home
diana_coman: there for.
diana_coman: well, the way I see it, europarliament like everything else will soon be for everyone, they might even drag you in or something
mp_en_viaje: well, the same math that yielded "tmsr should get a church registered in the us", that then danielpbarron judged "these ppl are too dorky to bother for, i'd much rather work with some ok rurals" yields party in yurp.
mp_en_viaje: all sorts and manner of practical considerations like these.
mp_en_viaje: when i go back to cr, why not just leave the mp residence in yurp so others can enjoy a visit/stay ?
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: as a sort of tmsr.ro ? or what would the difference be exactly as I don't quite grok in what way a "political party" is not already included in tmsr as it were
mp_en_viaje: well, mentioning astronomy to folk in the 1890s led to spitting self.
spyked: other than that, mentioning census vote and slavery to folx around me seems to lead to the usual humanrights/etc. reaction. their brains dun seem to go any further than that particular pattern match
mp_en_viaje: spyked, yeah, but the interest's not in getting votes.
spyked: at the very least teh psds are specialized in drawing votes from the general populace. as for xtians, that's (in my very limited experience) where most people who are not completely retarded lie, and they'll cling to that. but that's only as far as I know (which ain't much)
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in other battles, https://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/Wildling46/8090906/700738657/3some5.PNG
mp_en_viaje: how would any of these groups manage to give battle ?
spyked needs to grok this for a bit. otoh, finds the experiment worthwhile, but a. has 0 exp with politics (other than following to some degree the local affairs) and b. doesn't know how would the battle on two fronts (i.e. the social-democrats and the xtian socialists) would work strategically
mp_en_viaje: a yeah, deny driver licenses to any who aren;t either professional drivers or in a liberal profession. and especially to "it experts", actresses/singers/newswomen etcetera.
mp_en_viaje: there's a bunch more re quashing the "aspirational" culture and the fraudulent practice of accomodating people's WoWoW pretense / being stars of their own film through the process of future promises, and on it goes.
mp_en_viaje: on-407.0-423.497][traditional stupidity], raise awareness among kids as to the losing idiocy of relationships within their age group, familiarize public with domestic and sexual slavery, promote the harem as the correct alternative to "traditional marriage" nonsense, on it goes.
mp_en_viaje: in no particular order, militate for the restriction of the franchise, the introduction of the census vote (whereby property counts electorally), amending the constitution to male it illegal for state to own anything or be involved in economy, lower age of sexual consent to 12 and systematically introduce young women to the concept of the sexual market and why it's very fucking stupid to [http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selecti
mp_en_viaje: ah, that was an attempt to help out a pre-existing item. (in fairness, romania hasn't had any ideas in 2-3 decades ; as it happens historically the iron guard was ~100% of the romanian modern culture, certainly in the 20th century)
spyked: mp_en_viaje, re new ro party, what's the reasoning behind it? what would be different vs. http://trilema.com/2013/romanias-new-right/ ?
a111: Logged on 2013-11-13 02:09 nubbins`: given that i'm really just here to mess with the signal-to-noise ratio, i'd like to see the latter
mp_en_viaje: so i'm sorta toying with the idea of starting a (romanian) political party.
asciilifeform: unfathomable crock of shit, the lot of it
mp_en_viaje: maybe not the written "one" (as fucking if), but defo the factual one as emerged in practice.
mp_en_viaje: anyway -- in fairness the "space is magic char" thing very much comes from html spec itself.
asciilifeform: ( and that's w/out the configs... )
mp_en_viaje: seems quite evident what they did -- div mode for sanity and pre mode for "whitespace is magic character nao".
mp_en_viaje: But if you dont like <pre> or it looks stupid in your browser no matter what styles you try to apply to it or something similar, you might want to use a <div> instead. A <div> will result in more source - GeSHi will have to insert whitespace markup - but in return you can wrap long lines of code that would otherwise have your browsers horizontal scrollbar appear. Of course with <div> you can not wrap lines if you please. The highlighter demo
mp_en_viaje: "The <pre> header is the default. If youre familiar with HTML youll know that whitespace is rendered as is by a <pre> element. The advantage for you is that if you use <pre> the whitespace you use will appear pretty much exactly how it is in the source, and whats more GeSHi wont have to add a whole lot of <br />s and non-breaking spaces ( ) to your code to indent it. This saves you source code (and your valuable visitors w
asciilifeform: and w/out reading the entire pila shit , impossible to say why.
mp_en_viaje: does it fix the whitespace strange ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, here's a basic thing, not to infuriate you but out of curiosity : https://archive.is/3FJqA#selection-2733.0-2861.26 << have you tried the other container ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, ok, this makes zero fucking sense. item is supposed to use ~css containers~ ; it's not possible to have open html tags therefore at all.
asciilifeform: the exam takers produce exactly same result with 'run an' print' 'debug' .
mp_en_viaje: the ultimate problem with debugging -- allows people to exam-take their code design, "oh, doesn't work on anything we've not spent year+ debnugging"
mp_en_viaje: spyked, http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05a-july-theses.html#selection-893.205-893.499 << aren't these contrary claims ? ie, if they're not north koreans, therefore not r-selected ?
asciilifeform installed some time in 2011, used for c, ada, verilog, bash, etc , these -- worked
asciilifeform: appears to work for ada, and coupla dozen other langs, w/out issue
asciilifeform: ( it aint simply for 18c either, i have entire sequence of peh likbez planned , so hand-colouring is prohibitively ugh )
mp_en_viaje: so then wtf.
asciilifeform: ( not that this is a problem , for mathematical pov, for peh, which is also single pass )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: rite ? simple problem , on surface, 'take this grammar and throw colour tags where they belong.' but apparently even this can be fucked up, idjit tower of speshulcases doesn't detect breakage of grammar, instead pisses out unclosed html tags.
asciilifeform: nao! there ~were~ text processors designed by thinking people, where it ~was~ possible to write a readable proggy with predictable failure conditions. e.g. 'snobol'. but these, buried under 30yrs of sediment, will take serious archaeology to unearth.
asciilifeform: it is ~physicallyimpossible to write any other kind in php.
mp_en_viaje: just like javascript isn't there for "here's an implementation of linux kernel in js", just so php is not there for "here's my recursive elegance" or w/e.
mp_en_viaje: it seems to me one ~should not~ write another kind in php.
asciilifeform: i.e. it's black lung equiv for the brain.
asciilifeform: hence wai i even mentioned. it's a typical php proggy, and i strongly suspect that folx who spend enuff time writing in blind macroexpander langs, eventually become incapable of producing any other kind
mp_en_viaje: obviously maniacs abound, the "'single-char nonalphabetics' are 'symbols' and treated specially. and hardbaked a dependence on delimeters (i.e. whitespace) in the semantics. and fuckknows whatelse." parts sound SO FUCKING FAMILIAR
asciilifeform: right, hence the comparison
mp_en_viaje: no but listen : php chiefly exists for the task of "you know what? take every sentence in this text file and put <tag> around punctuation marks". that's what it was made for, substitute strings in strings, pretty much.
mp_en_viaje: o brother.
mp_en_viaje: ok, so don't use that. just because random plugin was written by tard doesn't invalidate either php as a ... text processor, nor wp plugins as an extension framerowkr for mp-wp
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm cutting the wp thing open to see if it can be made to behave, but at some pt will have to throw in towel and do sumthing else
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it was apparently designed by a tard. who insisted that 'single-char nonalphabetics' are 'symbols' and treated specially. and hardbaked a dependence on delimeters (i.e. whitespace) in the semantics. and fuckknows whatelse.
mp_en_viaje: you have this very ineffectual approach to things where you'll try either a very high level thing from first principles (usually, as applied to some extand software) or else a handwritten-on-knee minimalist thing. there's space in between these two, you know.
asciilifeform started by taking the included 'ada mode' and modifying. but thing seems to choke on the single-character keywords of peh
asciilifeform: it's rather like debugging gnumake.
asciilifeform: there is afaik no equiv of slime/macroexpand/etc system for php
asciilifeform: but it being ~in~ php makes the thing undebuggable.
mp_en_viaje: possibru problem is not php but the plugin
asciilifeform: difficult to give meaningful example w/out detailing the MB+ pile of shit that is the plugin. simply, config written seemingly according to docs, but there is html barfola in the output.
asciilifeform: just like perl, if you violate some expectation of orig author's, you get arbitrary barf, rather than eggog even.
mp_en_viaje: sure, rome had the fux.
BingoBoingo: Ah, I forgot you split the bots
lobbes: hm, lemme get the lobbesbot back
mp_en_viaje: there ~was~ some ongoing bestiality previously, engaged mostly dressed, with the light off and the eyes closed -- in any perspective a shameful act.
mp_en_viaje: nevertheless, large objects are discrete, no quantum mechanics applies. as a factual matter, ~nobody had any fucking sex until we came around and taught teens to shave the bush etc, late 80s.
mp_en_viaje: it's easy to play along and pretend, "oh, there's all these people getting their dick sucked nowadays, it's almost as if mine's sucked too", electron-cloud sorta reasoning.
mp_en_viaje: nobody fucked anybody in the 70s.
mp_en_viaje: spyked, chock-full. though it's unclear to me how you reason re "having beaches", and in any case the fucking of eastern girls was more the 90s than the 70s.
BingoBoingo: ^ For the burden of keeping fighter jets file
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> imho oughta extend. otherwise vulnerable to some pretty ugly strange (say, there's just 1 lowball bid, and then fleanode drops the bot until end, etc) << Also there's the 90's Ebay factor. People counting on doing bidding during the final stretch.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I could have swore seeing a picture from the same angle on a trilema post somewhere.
BingoBoingo: Give everyone around the clock a chance to bid
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell lobbes Another 24 hours is probably better than 12.
lobbes_field: In either case will not charge BingoBoingo the traditional fees for this auction due to all the derpage
lobbes_field: As for extending, it seems that the bot went down with 12 hours left, so I could easily extend it another 12
lobbes_field: Sry about auctionbot downtime. I shoulda checked before I left for the mines. Will bring back online tonight
asciilifeform: dunno why this took 20yrs from the famous 'embrace & extinguish' leaked memo, but there it is.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, microshit w10 nao ships with optional 'linux kernel'.
asciilifeform: imho oughta extend. otherwise vulnerable to some pretty ugly strange (say, there's just 1 lowball bid, and then fleanode drops the bot until end, etc)
PeterL: asciilifeform: what would haldling correctly look like? it just declares the last bid it saw as the winner, or extend the auction based on the time it missed?
asciilifeform: PeterL: i expect we'll find out, when lobbes resets the bot, whether it handles this case correctly
PeterL: so how does the auction work if auctionbot disappears? Wasn't it supposed to be ending about now?
BingoBoingo thought http://trilema.com/2013/fire-in-alabama-lets-make-the-most-of-it/ is the cannon shot, but is the cannon seat.
diana_coman: no penguins, arctic foxes and northern lights there either, according to the other-side criteria
mp_en_viaje: seems insane for may. even in the snowy north im from.
diana_coman: about 14 degrees here in suddenly-sunny england, lolz; tbf at 6am there were only 8-9 but that's ...refreshing at that hour.
BingoBoingo: Possible, but this artifact is roughly as culturally embedded as the estufa electrica is across the river.
mp_en_viaje: maybe locals don't close the doors.
BingoBoingo: Of all the things the maker could have pre-drilled holes for and neglected... they neglected pilot holes for the latches. It is not an extraordinary impediment to me putting the thing together, but how are the locals supposed to make the doors work?
BingoBoingo finally acquired a "ropero" and assembling the thing so guests stop wondering why all my clothes are perpetually in the luggage.
BingoBoingo: reworded "the criminal organization calling itself the United States Government has impotently gone on tilt by escalating zher ongoing aggression against zher rivals."
asciilifeform: there in fact is a 'uss chung hoon'.
asciilifeform: also upstack, 'The US guided-missile destroyers ‘Preble’ and ‘Chung Hoon’ traveled within 12 nautical miles' << lol!!
asciilifeform: ( they did . but had to find ~empirically~ )
asciilifeform: i tried to find this out last time, and turned out that the co. is retarded, they could not even definitively promise that 2 x 45kg will get loaded.
BingoBoingo: I suspect the same
BingoBoingo: North America/Uruguay gets its own line on the table
asciilifeform: interestingly, 'business class' nao includes 'phree' 64kg + 175 for another 23
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/after-coup-embarrassment-usg-goes-on-tilt-aggressing-on-all-rivals-at-the-same-time/ << Qntra -- After Coup Embarrassment USG Goes On Tilt Aggressing On All Rivals At The Same Time
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: While you plan your next run down here make sure to re-review Copa's baggage policies. They seem to be shifting as these things do. http://archive.is/mU9FX
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:01 phf: tbnl from which hunchentoot comes used to be pure mod_lisp, another code to look at
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:06 mp_en_viaje: if lisp-o-tron spits out html files and apache delivers them, this will be web-fast
lobbes_field: Now, it seems we could go many directions re: (a), but I'm partial to the lisp-to-apache route
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 09:32 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910762 <-- so far wwwism kit seems to include: a. http server, b. [curl][http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-125.0-132.0], c. html gen. (a) is the next item on my list, with (c) and (b) coming next, and... is there a (d)?
asciilifeform: possib. the eng expression 'see how sausage is made'.
asciilifeform: there was old film, which i think mp_en_viaje's link is a frame from 'modern' remake of, where some kid unwraps a chocolate bar and 'ticket to tour the magic factory' where bathe in chocolate and etc
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: see also https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-golden-ticket/ .
BingoBoingo: Emperor goes old gender, spent decades not grooming any successors, Brazil missed its chance to be lamented like 1904 Argentina because they got their decline underway during the 1870s
asciilifeform: rright but when 'ivan' he does Right Thing and orders 'the motherland's earth treasures are for building up motherland's factories an' roads' etc
asciilifeform: possibly the 1 thing moar decerebrating than shit poverty, is lottery money.
mp_en_viaje: well, have industry so as to extract it. your theory is experimentally weak, romania had lots of oil, had no industry under blue "ourdemcoracy" 1900 version, then had industry under red socialist democracy 1950s version, now they're fucking it up to get back to blue version, etc.
asciilifeform: then died, and poof.
BingoBoingo: Kinda why the generals exiled emperor Pedro after they got their medals burning Paraguay
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, the days get short and the latinos have the narrowest of temperature tolerances
mp_en_viaje: no idea anyone has any use for brazil except to fuck the slavegirl granddaughters with the pork asses.
BingoBoingo: Rained and smog'd all weekend here because its 60F, gotta fire up the estufas de leña
mp_en_viaje: then, china took ove rharder than expected, and well... lido got sanded.
mp_en_viaje: well, in the 80s/90s they promised to be industrial power. (eg, lua is leftover artifact from this time)
BingoBoingo: But its alright because everyone has "estufas de leña" and they'll chase away UPM before they can break ground on the mill in order to have the Eucalyptus planted in the 90's to keep them warm in the winter.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-08 15:02 asciilifeform: the 'good climate makes folx lazy and slowly climbing 'back up to trees' ' item is an old saw, but i'm not aware of any major hole in the theory
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, current-day brazil is a petromiamistan, rather like current ru (picture if ru were moved to equator, for extra tropical-stupidity radiation damage ..)
mp_en_viaje: generally how poor people activity works. look at what they claim not to be doing, it's what they're doing.
BingoBoingo: They keep saying they don't want to go down the Venezuela road while dragging everyone down the Venezuela road
asciilifeform: in quasirelated lulz, asciilifeform went for 1st time into brazil's embassy in ameristan, the other day (it was on exhibit) . 100% snoar except for the wall deco, whole place was done up with vintage paintings of slaves being unloaded from boats, whipped, auctioned, etc
mp_en_viaje: "but mp, you must run for office" "why, so you worthless cocksuckers can whine about how come '''your''' gf'd much rather suck me off ? get lost."
mp_en_viaje: rather, the inept cocksuckers "arrested" elite because "corruption", fell nobody-could-have-predictedly in http://trilema.com/2011/povestea-celor-trei-imparati-smecheri-si-a-celor-trei-negustori-fraieri-fabula-in-versuri-ilustrata/#selection-69.206-69.436 failure mode.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Some derps at the Petrobras "Montevideo Gas" natgas distribution plant were fucking around with a rifle inside the plant. At the same time Bolsonaro in Brazil wants to shrink Petrobras and privatize it. Petrobras annouces it wants to sell its 88 service stations and exit the Uruguayo market. Throughout all of this "labor" is thrashing about in disbelief.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's the prime mover there? e.g. did 'exxon' promise'em miami if they sabotage brazil ?
BingoBoingo: In continued labor flaffing, drivers for Uruguay's petrol company about to stop driving petrol to Petrobras service stations, wreckers at PIT-CNT sure if they thrash enough "puestos de trabajo" can be saved and "Why do they want to leave anyways?" https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/fancap-cortara-suministro-de-combustibles-a-petrobras-20195611243
BingoBoingo: No matter his location, the rolling must be harnessed
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 16:10 mp_en_viaje: kissinger is probably rolling in grave worth at least 2-3 kW over the whole guaio comedy.
asciilifeform: i suppose this is a possible 'harem sport' -- chix take turns drinking one another's 'morarji cola' , last 1 to give up, winner
asciilifeform: 'then we will die and feed the worms, feed the worms, ducks, they will come and eat'em up, eat'em up, others will come and eat up ducks, eat the ducks...' etc i fughet how the rest.
asciilifeform: iirc there's an english folk song about ~this.
mp_en_viaje: guy established a duck most voracious animal in nature, can eat thirty ducks, through the following pocedure :
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know that experiment with the ducks ?
mp_en_viaje: currently sitting with very nice tawny port, coffee etc in elaborate cafe an' "this place would be so nice if it didn't have a piano" were the last words out of my mouth.
asciilifeform: if they drink tho, will have to empty'em eventually eh.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, well, rather's the situation, i move from restaurant to cafe and from cafe to club and from club to hotel and from etcetera. i suppose if i were desperate i could order a girl drink me, but so far's not been any need for that.
mp_en_viaje: certainly not since crossing the pond. previously, went to pee in sabana (relatively large cr park) and discovered in the process the toilets there primo A++ gay cruising material, reminiscent of glory days of new york gay life
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: today yes for free. result is that they nearly always resemble the timis item (albeit with ~working throne)
asciilifeform: dunno re when mp_en_viaje was still there, but incidentally the spiffy underground toilets in the museum square were chained shut, when i saw'em in '17
asciilifeform: and afaik the object is pretty typical in post-sovok space. ( and iirc the celts also returned to shitting where they stood when rome left britain . cuz wainot, right. )
asciilifeform: i saw at least 2 other roughly similar.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i'm not even sure i ever saw that particular one. not that there's any shortage.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 14:47 asciilifeform: first gotta fully describe the atrocity, so as it is not repeated in future. mp_en_viaje recall that shoemaker-era defunkt public toilet in timis 3 blocks from 'kaufland' ?
mp_en_viaje: kissinger is probably rolling in grave worth at least 2-3 kW over the whole guaio comedy.
asciilifeform: given any particular cl relic, it is usually not difficult to say which half of the divide it fell into
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:00 phf: mp_en_viaje: it's the shitsoup ecosystem, there's a handful of packages smartly written, like hunchentoot or cl-http, and then there's new wave of cffi-everything approaches, that stand tall and pretend to be people
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911437 << at 1 time i dug into phf's leads in prev thread re subj and tried to determine a 'time of death', i.e. approx moment when -- apparently -- the 'old guard' (folx who maybe quasi-remembered, secondhand, lispm) retired/decamped/descended into bottle, and poetterings took over. but then realized it is not esp. useful q to ask.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: yea it is wrong link. but so far not found the needed one.
mp_en_viaje attempted to read the year-old convo you linked here, seems to me it's substantially unrelated. i was protesting poor organisation on historical lisp team, the "oh but c sucks" point never was either disputed or much engaged.
mp_en_viaje: if lisp-o-tron spits out html files and apache delivers them, this will be web-fast
mp_en_viaje: i do not think this is necessarily so, specifically because of the narrowness of http usecase.
asciilifeform: rright, asciilifeform however must point out why the map will inevitably read like the description of the 'cultural layer' in the timis toilet.
asciilifeform: it is very easy to describe a working scheme, and afaik pretty much all of these variants are in use somewhere. but all have same set of problem.
mp_en_viaje: i'm not giving implementation details, i'm tryna draw the architectural lines.
mp_en_viaje: but there's also the c) of "use the fucking filesystem as an interface", X dumps to file and Y reads from file
mp_en_viaje: ie, the interface will have to exist. now -- it'll either be a) "magic" in the sense of cl-http, whatever, graybeard asked thor and thor did him a personal fabvour ; or else b) "magic", in the sense of loli veira asked her daddy, and her daddy told her she's pretty, so clearly. african magic.
phf: tbnl from which hunchentoot comes used to be pure mod_lisp, another code to look at
mp_en_viaje: this honestly may be the third workable design : have an "abstract" lisp server for http, have an apache in front of it.
phf: mp_en_viaje: it's the shitsoup ecosystem, there's a handful of packages smartly written, like hunchentoot or cl-http, and then there's new wave of cffi-everything approaches, that stand tall and pretend to be people
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, really insufferable, this "ease of everything" they've "built" in the way you describe above re broken toilet. it works well for an everything that takes values from the set shit, piss, cigg butt, beer bottle, ad flyer, fcmg wrapper.
mp_en_viaje: rather than try and pretend lisp is a workable systems language on x86 and then "ffi"ing all over the place.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the folx who 'i went to 7 countries! i.e. ate 'bigmac' in 7 diff. mcdonaldsen' ? that's exactly it.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-05 19:23 mp_en_viaje: anyways, even with civillians... me spent a few hours in the tiniest spa known to mankind. rando couple, "soo.. .are you a triplet ?" "actually, they're my slaves" "wut?!?!?" "do you know what bdsm is ?" dude : nope ; chick yup.
mp_en_viaje: i run into these schmucktards with the "ourdemocracy" beards all the damned time. "oh, i've been to spain". no, motherfucker, you haven't been to spain.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform came to conclusion 'build new irons' decade ago not because masochist, but because direly overdue sole solution to whole slew of otherwise-intractable problem.
phf: i don't think cffi is much about support of anything, it's almost always "there's a gnarly C library that i don't want to write in lisp, going to make a thin wrapper around, now has support for X
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this isn't even false. the illusion, however, is that 'c links natively, write c proggy' is some kinda improvement.
mp_en_viaje: from the contrary perspective : i get it that you folk wanna write lisp. the principal problem seems to be that this can't currently be actually done
asciilifeform: nao has 6 inch of cig butts. wai not, then , throw bottles.
asciilifeform: first gotta fully describe the atrocity, so as it is not repeated in future. mp_en_viaje recall that shoemaker-era defunkt public toilet in timis 3 blocks from 'kaufland' ?
mp_en_viaje: more practically, what the fuck do we do.
mp_en_viaje: you KNOW cffi ain't the holy grail of ffi. what is it then, such that it is found in general's boot and wench's bellybutton ornament and airplane tip
asciilifeform: those, are cuz 0 standardized abi on linux . so instead various horrors where gcc is invoked, a small c proggy is shat out in realtime, built, then jumped into.
mp_en_viaje: why the fuck would all the objects in a purported whole wide world depend on the same bit of circumstantial minutia.
mp_en_viaje: here, cffi, and why al sorta things that needn't are nevertheless brought to depend on it.
mp_en_viaje: kids who want a slavegirl but can't afford a slavegirl will sometimes buy a painted pillow and call it susan. but more commonly, and especially if not FUCKING FUCKED IN THE HEAD, they'll just watch older sis shower or something more directly separate.
mp_en_viaje: even in the situation where a) you have to talk to linux and b) you can't talk to linux, WHY would you make something that eminently IS NOT a ffi, then call the thing that isn't a ffi "ffi" and then purport to use it ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: why which ? why open sockets by talking to linux ? i agree, the Right Thing would be a cltron that drives nic directly etc.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 09:44 phf: spyked: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05c-development-log-i.html#selection-147.0-153.252 << i've used araneida for early btcbase, i've dropped it in transition from cmucl, but i'd say that it's the least encumbered of the bunch. i don't remember it having any "administration interfaces". it's written in the late 90s hacky style, and it's missing functionality (for example i wrote entire form parsing logic when i was trying to add patch
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911356 << i seem to recall that this was when the log www regularly fell down...
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 09:23 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910755 <-- I dun much like hunchentoot, on account of http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05c-development-log-i.html#selection-187.0-192.0 ; but I'm open to using it if the alternatives turn out to be insufficient
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911347 << last time i surveyed the available items (~decade ago) 'hunchentoot' turned out to be the only 1 that wasn't fatally defective in some obvious way (some of the alternatives wouldn't build at all, others -- wouldn't use iron threads on x86; yet others missing some large piece , e.g. custom eggog pgs , etc ) but it's been a while
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 06:55 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911324 -> yes, it's a brick of a book but in fact not really dense or anything; everytime I haul it out of the shelf and onto the table I inevitably wonder why exactly is it so heavy really.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 19:44 asciilifeform: so can haz a hypothetical contrary ? i.e. how would it have looked to have 'standard interface' to a thing which itself has no intention of obeying any standards ?
asciilifeform: for bonus ugly, it aint in the cl standard.
mp_en_viaje: hurr durr loli veira. why is "ffi" even a thing in the first place.