mircea_popescu: fucking sign whatever you want to run, if people like it they'll run it and if not whatevs.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 23:33:14; asciilifeform: to the point where i cannot even release a patch because wtf, against ~what~ do i patch
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you recall the mjr guy or what's his name was here trying to mealy mouthedly take the temperature re bitfinex last time they did a scam cycle.
mircea_popescu: the delusion of "shared" universe is quintessential to the problem of "poetteringization"
phf: ah, word. the juxtaposition of ascii's comment about central repo..
mircea_popescu: phf no afaik that's the phil potter in question.
mircea_popescu: in other worlds - different bitcoin entirely runs, or same runs under different name or w/e.
phf: ben_vulpes: i went derp, or that's some other phil?
mircea_popescu: if i find it in a fucking bottle in the east river, my problem.
mircea_popescu: none of your business personally where either.
asciilifeform: the patch set must physically come from somewhere.
mircea_popescu: "nothing is gained by rewriting same crud 1001 times." relates to " this is dwim." how ? other than "this stuff bothers me immensely"
asciilifeform: and there is not nor cannot be a guarantee that you can go from names to build automagically
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 22:26:08; mircea_popescu: and you may NEVER say to any user "your program is not working correctly because you've not given tyhe developer enough control over it". this is anathema, and the source of the "llvm-ization" comment.
asciilifeform: to the point where i cannot even release a patch because wtf, against ~what~ do i patch
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i suppose he just ended up in the wrong "have a catered lunch on us" line.
asciilifeform: the central repository thing is ultra-broken
asciilifeform: and when i said 'patch set' it means that - like it or not - you gotta get them somewhere.
mircea_popescu: as long as it works fine without, i see no problem with it being there, but either way.
mircea_popescu: the costs go to the idiots BUYING. it'd better not cost the "actor, cantante y comediante estadounidense" jack shit, that's the fucking point of advertising to consumers.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: "Because the cost of increasing the limit is lower than the benefits of peace/not constant fighting and showing that Bitcoin can in fact do a hardfork." https://archive.is/u1Dv9
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for petertodd from 2 to -1 with note: random schmuck with bizarre pretensions.
assbot: You rated user petertodd on 01-May-2013, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: the gift cert expert..
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for bluematt from 1 to -1 with note: historically respectable bitcoin tester, recently joined forces with known scammers a la Luke-Jr and assorted nobodies in a doomed if lulzy effort to break bitcoin.
assbot: You rated user bluematt on 06-May-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: one of the very few dudes in -dev actually doing something useful..
mircea_popescu: are any of those schmucks in the wot even ?
mircea_popescu: no idea who the fuck uses any of that crap anyway, but w/e.
mircea_popescu: nobody is to use AntPool, A-XBT, Bitfinex, BitFury, Bitmain, BIT-X Exchange, Blockcloud, BTCC, Coinfloor, F2Pool, HaoBTC, Ledger, LIGHTNINGASIC & BitExchange, OKCoin or Spondoolies-Tech for any purpose under any circumstances, or ever hire anyone who ever worked there.
mircea_popescu: the zombie world entirely exists out of that iota less.
phf: "i, ordained computron mircea lifeform, in the year of our republic 1932, having devoted three months to the verification of checksums, with my heart pure and my press clean, sit down to transcribe vee patch ascii_limits_hack, signed by the illustrious asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes and all saints."
ben_vulpes: jurov: yes, this script uses the user keyring
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: i think that i understand the windows comment now
mircea_popescu: it hastabe. there's nothing wroing with you running anything you wish, to help in any manner you choose, and even distribute it on its own v line
mircea_popescu: and you may NEVER say to any user "your program is not working correctly because you've not given tyhe developer enough control over it". this is anathema, and the source of the "llvm-ization" comment.
mircea_popescu: the important parts here being that v does away with the concept of developer control over code ; and with the concept of code ownership ; and instead introduces the concept of signature-driven responsibility.
mircea_popescu: guy tries to find the "source of power" by doing inane wikipedia-level shit, then tries to make friends with the people and put his fucking code in, to FORCE it upon the fucking userbase.
mircea_popescu: CONTRARY to this sane process, in the empire alt-universe, may it piss in its own eyes,
mircea_popescu: people in the senate floor of the most serene republic notice the silly things the kids are doing in bed these days and lo! ben_vulpes signs it, which makes that snipped suddenly go into a bunch of servers.
mircea_popescu: depends how good the fucking was. a) is more discrete.
mircea_popescu: the girl, upon visiting, notices this, likes the functionality, and either a) signs herself or b) imports his sig in her wot.
mircea_popescu: he decides he wants to add three lines of code to bitcoin. what HE does, in republican world, is write those lines of code, sign them, add his own sig in the wot and voila.
mircea_popescu: moe finds bitcoin in 2056, long after the republic prevailed, through his gf at the time. he steals her script, copies her .wot directory and now has a node!
mircea_popescu: actually ben_vulpes it occurs to me, maybe the following description of final state is helpful :
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:07:44; asciilifeform: and right now the situation is ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1410932 << ridiculous is not a reason to go back to the fucking insane asylum!
mod6: Thanks for everyone taking the time, I know it's not pain-free with some of this stuff yet.
mod6: thanks mircea_popescu. I'm doing my best -- I need to get us in a non-disjointed situation, hence the self-imposed deadline here.
mircea_popescu: you're doing very well in everyone's estimation, your deadline is self imposed, not the end of the world.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo note how they STILL WON'T FIX THE MOTHERFUCKING HOLE. instead, how about to destroy more of the interconnected nature of the web ? "automattic got usg's back - turn off other people and only talk to disqus!!1"
assbot: And as for actual WordPress pingbacks .... you should probably switch 'em off • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIiemI )
ben_vulpes: i am not well versed enough in the history of gcc and llvm to understand this.
mircea_popescu: i understand that the pressure to say "oh it's the weekend can turn xcode off" EVERY SINGLE FUCKING WEEK is well driven psychologically.
mircea_popescu: mno. the enveloping of a tool which by its functioning and nature guarantees a free world into a sufficient wall so as to be safely operated by the opposite.
ben_vulpes: the turning of a compiler which should simply ingest code and shit elfs into a developer-centric tool?
mircea_popescu: but understand that in any perspective, there's something fundamentally broken with telling V "press me this list of nodes". conceivably it may be useful as a graph-debugging tool, but it is not a v-ism.
mircea_popescu: mno, ideally we'll discuss this to the point we are happily getting it
mircea_popescu: in any case - v, as any new coin, has to get diversely seeded so it may survive, which is the scary step before us right now.
ben_vulpes: i should simply expect misery from you every time i bring up the topic of how a v might work then?
mircea_popescu: and subtle - which is to say just subtle enough to avoid detection by the head it sits in.
mircea_popescu: but the insanity is found in all heads.
mircea_popescu: ie, it's easy to pick on alf about his enamourement with the mental-usg, mostly because he's so "naively" open and upfront about it.
mircea_popescu: hence it's not as much what we "want" from our tools per se. merely what we expect them to be
ben_vulpes: from 'how the wot is attacked'?
mircea_popescu: which is why things such as "official best policy for X" never even got to the discussion phase, as i've always torpedoed it ?
mircea_popescu: let's use this angle : do you understand what i mean in that ancient article about how coherence in the wot is the worst attack on the wot ?
ben_vulpes: try like i'm five, the windows comparison is shorting me out
mircea_popescu realises that the enthusiastic approval was merely intellectual, and code monkey habits will die fucking hard in the best intended of people. o brother, what we have before us.
ben_vulpes: how is this "user's script" not precisely the windows release?
mod6: then your machine is hosed.
mircea_popescu: the idea is exctly NOT to have coder comfort and sanity at the expense of "this is the user's script"
mircea_popescu: the idea is to have diverse coder process, and a lot of fuckign toi land trouble on tghe coders, for maximal output quality.\
mircea_popescu: i don't like you enough to prefer you over the exactly equivalent windows release process just because your name is ben vulpes not bill gates.
ben_vulpes: you will get a release patch and you will press to it. there is your hammer.
mircea_popescu: perhaps... to help african children ? or other groups dear to our hearts ?
mircea_popescu: should bitcoin also be useful for something more other than ~dependably~ keeping track of moneyz ?
ben_vulpes: perhaps i am laboring under the misapprehension that v should be useful for something other than putting software on mircea_popescu's box
ben_vulpes: you - want to sink nails. i want to pull them out occasionally.
ben_vulpes: unless you expect it to be only and ever a release tool and not a tool for people actually working on the thing to use in their workflow.
ben_vulpes: then press to a release patch, fin.
mircea_popescu: the only sane thing to say to V is "i want the bitcoin as these gentlement think it is best "
mircea_popescu: one who is broken in the head may say that.
mircea_popescu: who are you quoting then ? or what is that ?
assbot: Logged on 17-02-2016 05:22:12; mircea_popescu: punkman well, let's see what the others say. i faintly dislike the idea on morale grounds, but it's not the end of the world
mircea_popescu: the pointer in that convo is currently at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-02-2016#1408041 but do read the prev.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1410927 << if you send them to me ima mail them o.O
mod6: this is the worst of all worlds.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:07:06; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you still have to specify the patch set
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:03:57; asciilifeform: but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1410922 << would we do me the favour and quote me when we agree with me like this as i have nfi what this is. also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1410930 <<< what stupid shit is this! specify THE PATCH SET ? fu! you mean specify the wot and the genesis ?
jurov: cleaned up eveything, there is now only .wot and build-bitcoind-V99995.sh, same result
mod6: new build dir, the whole 9
mod6: if it is, then there might be some sort of issue. i'll have to dig in to that. can you try maybe just clearing everything and trying again?
mod6: then place .wot in "/data/juro/btc/V99995"
pete_dushenski: mod6: fwiw i'm endlessly appreciative of the work you've done thus far. you make noobing trb possible :)
mod6: why in the world do I work on shit for a month, post betas all the way, and then we hit these issues now?
jurov: mod6 see the paste - no it is not.
pete_dushenski: mod6: breathe !
mod6: <+asciilifeform> but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified. << ok but how should this work
mod6: <+jurov> mod6: trying under gentoo, v.pl complains "/.wot directory does not exist." << create your .wot in the same dir that you place the build script, create a log of your findings, and see what happens plz.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell gabrielradio my turn on your turn is live. thanks for the assist :)
mod6: these godddam fucking cocksuckers are going to give ole mod6 a heart attack.
mod6: kill them all.
mod6: i have not seen that in the MONTH of testing that i've been doing.
ben_vulpes: blows up on the .gitignore which iirc is an empty file
ben_vulpes: mod6: i don't think the file hashing mismatch is worth digging into
ben_vulpes: and that i suspect gpg means to convey that it is not actually checking the sig.
mod6: <+phf> mod6: is there a genesis for your v vpatch chain? << not until i finally get this thing working.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1410869 << stop trying to resist the lure of the b-a commissariat!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1410834 << starbux barrista probably takes one week on on the workplace.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i'd expect an entirely different error should that have been the case
ben_vulpes: going to have fun running that the fuck down.
BingoBoingo: ^ Spread is suspicously tight. Where did the China premium go?
phf: mod6: is there a genesis for your v vpatch chain?
asciilifeform: while looking at the graph
ben_vulpes: explain the use of parallel leaves?
ben_vulpes: pressing to a head should simply recurse to the root of that head
phf: oh shit, scratch that, i just checked the code it's not actually saving it anywhere :)
asciilifeform: and right now the situation is ridiculous.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you still have to specify the patch set
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: in my admittedly meagre understanding of v, the working set is determined by the .wot set, no ? and isn't this about http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=13-02-2016#1404304 ?
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 19:39:11; jurov: about a monh ago one dude offered to do the web submission form... was not heard since :(
asciilifeform: gotta nail down the workingset used.
asciilifeform: but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i agree. but user can 'read tin' on which there is a label, or just check 'patches' folder once built
asciilifeform: imho the scripts such as this should make it ~clear what will be pressed~
assbot: Logged on 13-02-2016 23:22:01; mod6: oh, because the leaf ordering is different. if you want a press of "all" patches as they exist in the mirror, currently, you need to press up through asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.vpatch
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 19:19:15; jurov: O.o postfix/smtpd[8072]: fatal: no SASL authentication mechanisms... on it
mod6: but yah, anyway, the differences between V [v99996] and [v99995] are outlined in the above emails, and ya, the last one [beta 4] has a complete vdiff between the too.
mod6: and the difference between 99996_2 and 99995 build scripts is nothing more than updating the SHA512 for V-20160220.tar.gz and the name of the tarball.
mod6: pete_dushenski: if you want an actual vdiff of the changes, refer to BETA 4 email, the latest is contained.
mod6: it's in the email that was snarffed.
pete_dushenski: mod6: what are the differences between 99995 and 99996_2 ?
jurov: about a monh ago one dude offered to do the web submission form... was not heard since :(
jurov: whether it needs to be resent
jurov: mod6 looks like it's fixed, my test email went through.... check whether your email was queued
ben_vulpes: phf: i tried for a very long time with erc in a seperate emacs instance running on a server as a bouncer, and the *constant* muscle memory confusion over the subtle differences between emacs-in-terminal and emacs-with-gui drove me up a wall
ben_vulpes: it's the weekend
mod6: Once we have confirmation, we can update the wiki -- this needs to happen TODAY.
jurov: O.o postfix/smtpd[8072]: fatal: no SASL authentication mechanisms... on it
jurov: yes it's likel, i updated glibc, then i said to myself might as well update whole system
ben_vulpes: process tech at least can hold out hope they'll move into mgmt if they go to night school and get that b.s.
ben_vulpes: and then there's the economic differences: barista can dream of what -- going on tour? owning their own coffee shop? writing a best selling memoir about...running a coffee shop and going on tour?
ben_vulpes: i'm talking about attention to detail, understanding wtf is happening, why the suit is a necessary thing, why the sticky pads at each door...
ben_vulpes: i'm not even talking about the incubating
ben_vulpes: subject of meat labor, i was slamming the 27-year old baristas some staffer was browsing on tinder last night and someone made the hilarious comment that bunnies are just as hot-swappable as baristas
asciilifeform: and if anything, the relevant tooling operations are now ~rarer~, more involved, costlier, the qualified folks - fewer.
asciilifeform: nor the meat labour
asciilifeform: (the nre cost is what i'm speaking of)
asciilifeform: because, at least partly, the latter represents 'capital allocation', or as mircea_popescu's article put it, 'a thing we can't all be doing'
asciilifeform: was thinking re: how 'moore's law', even in its heyday, did not substantially affect the inflation-adjusted COST of having a chip baked
assbot: Letters from the stupid country on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1mONzWN )
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/letters-from-the-stupid-country/ << your girls?
asciilifeform: PHYSICAL simulation of the thing, based on photographed and ocr'd dies, with animation.
assbot: Logged on 27-01-2016 23:48:23; ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-01-2016#1387121 << the sc4mz0rz neglect to mention that the wins were in handicap games
punkman: any idea how many cpus/gpus alphago will use in the match?
mircea_popescu: anyway, situation reminds me of the time some derpy vc schmucks flew over to asia to "save mtgox consensus".
pete_dushenski: no wonder the roman republic distrusted actors
mircea_popescu: the unmitigated audacity of schmuckdom never fails to astound.
BingoBoingo: Still, theater
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i don't crapple off the clock, normally
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: if cupertino syndrome can happen to alf... what hope is there for the common man ?
asciilifeform: in other nyooz,
pete_dushenski: well, break a leg out there
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 15:42:01; mircea_popescu: but in other news, /me is looking forward to reinstated phyctor
BingoBoingo is just starting to confront the magnitude of crapple stockholm syndrome on that qntra's comments
mircea_popescu: they're really cheap, too
mircea_popescu: there is no escape!11
punkman: she'd get tan lines from the chains tho
mircea_popescu: in other news, the things yo ugotta do to get girl to tan without lines : http://41.media.tumblr.com/9a9f5cebcfbd61915ef997e9a9eade88/tumblr_mxrzq2yiwW1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: crapple or anyone else big enough to put on a show for the people
pete_dushenski: https://c1.oliveoiltim.es/library/ucd-2010-report.pdf << costco is one of the few mega-corps who doesn't cheat on what they call 'extra virgin' olive oil.
mircea_popescu: but in other news, /me is looking forward to reinstated phyctor
asciilifeform: he was not equipped to birth the thing with own hands
asciilifeform: 'brogrammers' frittered away the funds, whole thing collapsed in a giant black hole of mismanagement, graft, and varied charlatanry
mircea_popescu: it's the one innovation since a href that's worth having.
asciilifeform: the archive link works on 'chromium'
asciilifeform: the one that worked, worked on a crapple box.
mircea_popescu: now how the fuck does this happen, it's not changed since when you said ti worked days ago ?!
asciilifeform: how do i view the thing??!
asciilifeform: nobody loves the poor turkz.
asciilifeform: ru will helpfully switch off the ru boxes
mircea_popescu: and apparently even the very little syria had was ample
mircea_popescu: notrly, the turks have a lot of russian stuff too.
asciilifeform: usg can turn their - or any other nato bitchdom's - air defenses off with one button.
mircea_popescu: yeah. meanwhile us army can't actually face turkish army, so there is that.
asciilifeform: every fire is in the head until not, sorta how it works, or bag men would all have empty bags
mircea_popescu: that is entirely in the derp's head. but i do mean entirely.
asciilifeform: (b) i can see, but ph0rkatron is what if not ordered by the fuhrer?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because a) hitler doesn't have them and b) hitler is not stalin, to answer every ivanov dick and harry.
mircea_popescu: shinohai> There is a Classic node running on "The Municipal Communications Utility of the City of Cedar Falls, Iowa" 24.149.8.238:8333 << write the boss and ask. sounds like a decent qntra piece.
asciilifeform: i still don't grasp why the ph0rkerz can't simply ask hitler for real machines / actual bandwidth
shinohai: There is a Classic node running on "The Municipal Communications Utility of the City of Cedar Falls, Iowa" 24.149.8.238:8333
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: i have like eight dozen cousins, and this is counting just the ones i shouldn't be fucking.
mircea_popescu: what's the jew's name
asciilifeform: in other western civ nyooz,
punkman: in other robo-lawyer news http://www.businessinsider.com/joshua-browder-bot-for-parking-tickets-2016-2
mircea_popescu: so i guess they dropped it to 5% more recently ?
asciilifeform: people are losing jobs and there’s more challenges to survive.'
asciilifeform: 'The challenge: what is “financially over-extended” today? It is more common now than before, and debt has become the norm. We have to take financial situation into consideration and be flexible; otherwise, almost no one will qualify for a security clearance if we aren’t careful. We can’t ignore it, but need to consider the reasons for it. Before there may have been clear indicators but today
mircea_popescu: plus it comes in a variety of coatings, from burito to what's that other thing.
mircea_popescu: mcdonalds is still the cheapest food people who only speak english can purchase.
asciilifeform: 'People want to be here, but why? Polling data suggest that the reasons are mostly instrumental (public funds, ease of travel), with only 17 percent expressing an affective reason.'
asciilifeform: 'There are three forms of employee commitment that may apply to commitment to country as well: affective (emotional: ― I feel good when I see the flag), normative (obligation: ― I belong here) and instrumental (no other option: ― I’m here because I have no choice).' << l0ltr0nic
asciilifeform: in other news, blocks that take my trb nodez 5-10 min. to verify have become sop.
asciilifeform: (and then they end up doing comical things like 'going to confession booth' when 'accidentally' saw a snowden newspaper thing, etc)
mircea_popescu: bout there.
mircea_popescu: ask a dozen people who applied, seven-eight tell you they got rejectered ?
asciilifeform: the turd, note, did not claim '95% of usians are eligible', claimed that only 5% of ~applicants~ were told to go pound sand
mircea_popescu: this is bs. directly measurable rate of disqualification in the 3/4 to 2/3 range.
asciilifeform: (apparently hitler ordered a committee of committees to be convened to revise the rules somehow, and this is what it produced)