SuchWow: now that's the most interesting tl;dr i've read yet
mircea_popescu: well, basically the story of eth is, "what if we made a b-a, except not on irc but in a spare closet at a usg-sponsored university, and we tried to get idiot kids on reddit excited and inept javascript developers contributing code and MAKE A BETTER BITCOIN in the sense that it'll suck where bitcoin hurts us."
SuchWow: has been a wild ride, and i called a lot of the movement correctly
SuchWow: (i am incredibly not well versed in eth tho admittedly, just the snips i hear here and there weekly on various chats/forums)
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 22:14:34; mircea_popescu: i'll have shu's head, and a few others instead.
SuchWow: then how can we say it is or isn't
mircea_popescu: gimme a sec ima dig out the thread.
SuchWow: (just hypothetical by means of same token)
SuchWow: did the gov't have anything to do with creation of btc?
mircea_popescu: but yes, an inkling of trust necessarily must stem out of outside the wot.
SuchWow: or a combo of the two
mircea_popescu: i can't say i'm not flattered nsa's trying their idea of "the mp approach", but in the famed words of knight, "get the fuck off the horse!"
mircea_popescu: tis much less of a hypotetical, tis a factual. look into the structure backing it if you're bored.
SuchWow: same hypothetical said about btc many times also tho
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 09:08:51; ben_vulpes: i wonder how the conversation drifted from parenting to shillcoins
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418880 << and yet it's obvious. what's the difference between the two ? :D
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 09:06:04; SuchWow: Just out of curiosity, what do you guys think about ethereum, meaning this chan in general
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418866 << so nsa/mit are trying to push an alt. good for them. they'll fail.
SuchWow: which is fine, as she is the only candidate giving us the highest probability of continued stability
mircea_popescu: see there's this thing where they "prepare" future candidates. sanders may well get 2020.
SuchWow: i think the whole damn circus is just a scripted mess to get hillary in
SuchWow: it's either trump v sanders, or v hillary
SuchWow: but what is the end game
mircea_popescu: i didn't even bet, myself. but i think it's pretty much on the money.
SuchWow: mircea_popescu: what do you think about the pres candidates
SuchWow: it is kinda brilliant, and the overall atmosphere is much better in many ways
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 09:04:23; cazalla: i get more cuddles and kisses, but he only turns the tears on if mum leaves, not when dad goes out, doesn't seem to care as much
SuchWow: i went down to the bar and got 2 heiniekens was liek $15
mircea_popescu: the idea of paying for wifi is so weird.
mircea_popescu: i mean there's some REALLY seedy places here, "hotel familiar" etc, literal hookers and bums,
SuchWow: i'm in the wrong business lol
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 09:02:12; ben_vulpes: there's only so much damage the little fuckling can do in 485 ft2
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418854 << the concept that you fit in there still boggles me.
SuchWow: on literally everything in the city
SuchWow: and it's just no logner the focus
SuchWow: it's all still there, people are doing it
SuchWow: that's the surreal part
SuchWow: (for the most part)
SuchWow: it's really sad for me to see that, but at the same time
SuchWow: and half the rooms that have been jere decades
SuchWow: but now there is literally no tourist market for poker anymore
mircea_popescu: well because it was the loss leader also. people went to lose money to champs just on the basis of hte brand
SuchWow: that's the only thing i ever really did on my trips
SuchWow: and back when they respected poker as well
SuchWow: finally they cut me off and said fuck you back lol
SuchWow: with the new Strip revamp
mircea_popescu: course that kinda ended in the 80s, just been soft-ish landing ever since.
SuchWow: cuz i used to come here all the time
SuchWow: and casinos are the loss leader
mircea_popescu: so what are you doing these days ? wanna test my mmorpg ?
SuchWow: well, in their defense
SuchWow: i certainly don't claim that there was any logic to the decision, but if you've seen #freenode lately, and ANNs, a lot has changed around here recently
mircea_popescu: o brother. i've been trying to give servers and stuff to the freenode shitheads for YEARS
SuchWow: they asked if i wanted it
SuchWow: the emeritus tag is much less than you guys have been making of it lol
mircea_popescu: usually the meaning of emeritus, yes.
SuchWow: [08:49:05] <SuchWow> mircea_popescu: how is bitcoin and all of your various endeavours whatever they may be?
SuchWow: [08:49:05] <+mircea_popescu> "noisehole, bullshitter, blowhard, drunkard, sadist, rapist, all-around disgrace to the sad sad State of Bitcoin (and a passive-aggressive plagiarist, too, to top a cherry on the shit-pan-kake!)" da fuck did you do adlai !
SuchWow: [08:48:40] <SuchWow> mircea_popescu: you guys are so pompous lol...i haven't been involved in crypto, trading or otherwise, for almost 2 year. Doge seems to fine, still has a small community (moreso than litecoin anyways), and i've been watching crypto in general just for fun. Eth seems interesting, but still not convinced.
mircea_popescu: get in the wot, wut!
mircea_popescu: "noisehole, bullshitter, blowhard, drunkard, sadist, rapist, all-around disgrace to the sad sad State of Bitcoin (and a passive-aggressive plagiarist, too, to top a cherry on the shit-pan-kake!)" da fuck did you do adlai !
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 08:54:01; ben_vulpes: i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 08:40:28; botneko-chan: I'm actually not very interested in btc politics, but in my opinion if increase block size then miners would get less profit from tx processing when there would be no new btc mined. Mining would become non-rentable and hashpower will decrease after some time then making easier for someone to get 51% just by turning on ol ASIC that was turned off because of low profit. I'm okay with current blocks and h
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1418795 << this has been discussed at length in the logs. yes, it's pretty dumb.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 06:02:07; ben_vulpes: flycheck just deleted the contents of an entire buffer
mircea_popescu: aghagaga punkman what the everloving fuck is that. companion cheesecake for "the graduate" ?
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 11:39:56; assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 08:54:01; ben_vulpes: i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 08:54:01; ben_vulpes: i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
ben_vulpes: putting the pressure on to get him into his bassinet more regularly
cazalla: not sure, from what i know it will change to pos at some point and then inflate the supply forever
ben_vulpes: i wonder how the conversation drifted from parenting to shillcoins
SuchWow: did they ever fix that i wonder
SuchWow: wasn't there some thing where the algo was gonna force POW to stop and switch to POS even tho no POS algo had been invented yet
cazalla: SuchWow, even if it was the second coming, idgaf as it will inflate forever
SuchWow: yeah pre-sale woulda been nice, but i don't blame myself one bit for not buying the hype
SuchWow: cazalla: that's reasonable. i don't really either, it's just that it's been hard to NOT hear about that one over the last year
cazalla: SuchWow, i don't really follow altcoins, so many of them, so many failures, bitcoin remains #1 despite all the 2.0 shit that has been promised to topple it all these years
SuchWow: Just out of curiosity, what do you guys think about ethereum, meaning this chan in general
cazalla: i get more cuddles and kisses, but he only turns the tears on if mum leaves, not when dad goes out, doesn't seem to care as much
cazalla: all good, kids galore here these days, easy to lose track
cazalla: i am looking forward to those things again, times seems to have gone so fast with the first, one moment he can barely roll and lift his head but now it's all walkin' and talkin'
cazalla: ben_vulpes, good, missus looks bigger the second time around for some reason, prenatal appt with nurse today confirmed that as well
ben_vulpes: anyways, how's the second cooking, cazalla ?
ben_vulpes: can we down each other?
ben_vulpes: yeah, i saw the second go through, but i don't think there's a guarantee that *you* did the second one.
ben_vulpes: i am also curious to hear about how long the bitcoind recompile is in your various workflows, asciilifeform, phf, mod6, punkman, jurov
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 16:52:56; ascii_butugychag: blackhole results when the worker thread (the one that handles nearly everything) is wedged
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395250 << asciilifeform what was the actual trigger for the blackhole? requesting a specific transaction?
ben_vulpes: not interested in btc politics botneko-chan ? just in it for the ddos?
botneko-chan: not for cents, there is need to design overlay network for faster low-fee small payment processing instead of increasing block size
botneko-chan: I'm actually not very interested in btc politics, but in my opinion if increase block size then miners would get less profit from tx processing when there would be no new btc mined. Mining would become non-rentable and hashpower will decrease after some time then making easier for someone to get 51% just by turning on ol ASIC that was turned off because of low profit. I'm okay with current blocks and higher fees, in my o
ben_vulpes: there's no actual panic, botneko-chan. there are a zillion for-hire-for-pennies social media accounts supporting some nsa plants attempts to matter with kindergarten grade psyops.
ben_vulpes: running the /exact same/ bitcoind command runs something that i can telnet into and scream lisp at
ben_vulpes: while last night the swank flags worked just handily, tonight, passing the swank flag to a booting bitcoind results in an error, "too short", from scheme.cpp
ben_vulpes: flycheck just deleted the contents of an entire buffer
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and the reason you picked tinyscheme over say ecl is...footprint? dreppers in ecl?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: prototyped on one of these, https://rhomberg.org/images/apu-oberseite.jpg
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if so much as 1 packet per billion is valid. << this sounds like the ticket.
asciilifeform: the idea is very simple, anybody who really wants to can pick his favourite nic chipset and implement.
asciilifeform: i will pick this back up again when there is reason to.
mats: did you actually write the routines in asm?
asciilifeform: mats: the idea is, a kind of line-speed (GB ethernet) wall, where crud goes in, and valid in-wot gossipd out.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have a (unpublished, for good reasons) prototype that doesn't have 'kernel' or 'userland' at all, but just this bare metal thing that sets up the nic ring buffer (coreboot payload) and loops, checks rsa, retransmits on other nic...
ben_vulpes: because the counterparty in this conversation is not thinking of gossipd as a device but a proggy that runs on a computer.
ben_vulpes: "pff line speed. you still need to get the buffered packets from the kernel into userspace, and that's an abstraction you'll have a hard time getting around."
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> got someone bought in on the "drop on first packet or gtfo" mentality, but still have to conquer the "well first you have to transfer the IP buffered packets into user space" mindset <<< can you say this in other words ?
ben_vulpes: got someone bought in on the "drop on first packet or gtfo" mentality, but still have to conquer the "well first you have to transfer the IP buffered packets into user space" mindset
ben_vulpes: the only line i have for coworkers and plebs on this topic is "you haven't thought for half a second why the /nsa/ didn't bring this suit?"
asciilifeform: met in the flesh ?
asciilifeform: ^ thesis
asciilifeform: and wow, that name was buried in the nethermost depths of my skull before this convo.
mircea_popescu: for they not blessed with knowledge of actual languages, there's significant aspectual difference between "is to produce" which talks of the state, like to be, and "produces", which talks of movement.
asciilifeform: (the ultimate thermonuclear version of this is to ~randomly generate~ a cpu arch, instantiate on an fpga ~and generate a compiler~, and compile for THAT! and i was very sad as a student to discover that one cristina cifuentes invented this long before i did)
mircea_popescu: where this comparison breaks down is that your biology is fundamentally cunt-based and perl-run. you necessarily respirate the ddt. meanwhile, your mental life is supposed to be hermetic and under your control. you shouldn't fucking respirate the environment wtf.
phf: i thought whole exercise is to produce byte to byte equivalent binaries, as another step in verification process. "sealed vpatches -> press -> binary -> shasum"
mircea_popescu: the brothel is also "just another way for housewife to win", at least according to her.
mircea_popescu: so then.... still not sure this is wrong.
mircea_popescu: heck, isn't the whole v system technically speaking just this ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was tempted throughout eulora lifetime to go "fu, no binaries, compile, always". and i can still contemplate why this would be the case with trb.
mircea_popescu: in other news, til i learned that the criteria for "fridge big enough" is : if one discrete item won't fit, push. if it now fits, fridge is big enough. if it still won't fit, "wtf is with these tiny-ass euro style fridges already!!1"
asciilifeform: but this is simply yet another way for mosquitoes to win.
asciilifeform: this is only a good thing in the sense that spraying ddt in every room of your house is.
phf: asciilifeform: they take a "we'll make sure to break abi, rebuild from source every time" position
phf: now that there was a suggestion of treating specific openbsd version as baseline, i think problem was that i built in on one openbsd and tried running on another
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 05:13:29; phf: the goal was to run it on a libretto and try to eat the first couple of blocks, but it wouldn't even connect to rpc for whatever reason, so i gave up on the whole distraction
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 05:12:12; phf: ben_vulpes: i'll take at look in the next few days, but one quick comment, fwiw i built it on a 32-bit openbsd.
fluffypony: Bitcoin should switch to the Timekoin codebase
ben_vulpes: why are all of the self-hosted rss readers written in php
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Seriously, they heated their Ether up into a gas?! No wonder it is already hardforking everywhere.
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/blob/master/EIPS/eip-2.mediawiki and https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/blob/master/EIPS/eip-7.md, although the latter is only noted as a hardfork on a blog page
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.50000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b7
ben_vulpes: hue, ether's hardforking already?
BingoBoingo: Dropped in low-s a month or two (mebbe 3) before trb, has -minrelaytx flag, from trb orphanage slaughters and malleus were definitely implemented. Other things but would take reading to recall them.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: On OpenBSD. It's the one I chopped together mostly while drunk and still works.
mircea_popescu: besides, as per satoshi's argument ("no, don't bring it on"), might not be the smartest thing in the world to give drepper incentive to exist on bsd anyway
asciilifeform: now rotor is not ~quite~ as necessary on bsd, because drepper is absent there. BUT we still need deterministic nailed-down toolchain, esp. for when we finally do the deterministic binary thing.
BingoBoingo: I have a partially trb-icized 7 series in the name of implementation pluralism. No earthly idea what all changes happened.
mircea_popescu: nono, in flavor of linux. like, in the style of bosch.
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 19:42:04; trinque: and obviously the hardware's all rotten too; I get that, but that's not an argument in favor of linux.
deedbot-: [Trilema] What MP wants MP gets, the funarg problem and other Mecano considerations - http://trilema.com/2016/what-mp-wants-mp-gets-the-funarg-problem-and-other-mecano-considerations/
BingoBoingo: Ah, a couple days after I open a can I'll start adding cold milk to it when I pour for the same reason
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 06:24:02; BingoBoingo: Wait, you don't drink it all by the pot?
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418008 lol i measure my coffee consumption by "does the shit smell like coffee? if not, all ok"
phf: that must be right because that's when asciilifeform published the mpex review, so i must've been reading mp since then, but ben_vulpes renamed himself quite recently
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> not all, ben_vulpes was here before me. << iirc benkay you and myself were part of the 2013 #b-a cohort
phf: my current goal is to have better compartmentalization, like have a gaming machine (i.e. libretto running dos, i've been unwinding with ~~'95 games), a work machine (i.e. a thing that can run intellij and which is compromised for all the practical purposes) and a b-a machine whatever that evolves into, because i don't think the future of a computer as a progrock moog station is panning out
phf: probably all the common lispers
phf: i found my way here to begin with because i was following your loperos project and your conclusions were then correct, only to be re-confirmed as part of b-a research
ben_vulpes: at mp's prompting i added a plastic handheld thing to the shower
deedbot-: [Ossasepia] Coordinate Eulometry (or Tomb of the Dead Mollusc) - http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/03/01/coordinate-eulometry-or-tomb-of-the-dead-mollusc/
ben_vulpes: sheesh this is like when i moved to new york and people were astonished to learn that there's electricity west of the rockies
jurov: As long as you use the proper hand for each.
asciilifeform: 'don't shit in the kitchen' is valid, despite different folks having different kinds of kitchen
asciilifeform: this is spiffy, but closed source crud belongs in a specially-designated leprosorium (malware box, or at least, if you like living dangerously, a vm) rather than on naked civilian box !
phf: it's got some other niceties, like a db integration, where it introspects into the scheme and then does static analysis on your sql code, including sql code that's inline somewhere in python
jurov: they have a sibling of idea named pycharm
asciilifeform: or does idea do other langs now
BingoBoingo: <trinque> it doesn't run linux binaries, which would preclude buildroot, wouldn't it? << Last week Openbsd killed linux_compat on i386 which is the last platform they supported it on
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> << quite psychanalizable, ftr. notice the spurt of "make x great again" ever since 2015 or so. << It's a Trump slogan, that's why it went meme
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-02-2016#1415503 << mount her on a bicycle, pilfer a bottle from the office, mash around the city on bikes, break onto the in-decomissionment sellwood bridge and fuck on it? iono man what does one do with random girls anyways
ben_vulpes: sure as hell beats drinking the horror at my own existence away
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-02-2016#1416923 << this girl i'm rather fond of convinced me that it wasn't a half-bad way to spend thirty years while my brain rots building apps for various usg tentacles.
phf: "Buildroot is a tool that simplifies and automates the process of building a complete Linux system for an embedded system, using cross-compilation.
phf: i think i wanted to figure out how to package openssl/db/boost as buildroot native packages, rather then doing adhoc, which is a task in itself
phf: asciilifeform: there's no rotor
asciilifeform: we need a thing that will 1) let us 'vendor' gcc and the WHOLE toolchain
asciilifeform: (recall, we're not building a kernel with it, only the toolchain)
asciilifeform: buildroot, theoretically, ought to work on bsd.
trinque: could just target one of those and results should be the same on same arch
trinque: in openbsd's case the operating system's version number refers to an entire base system
asciilifeform: phf, is there one ?
asciilifeform: i don't recall a ~rotor~ trb working there.
trinque: whether that's due to it being a less prevalent target, I do not know.
trinque: it seems to have done pretty well across the board
asciilifeform: trinque: 'want something changed' is not the right description for granary full of mouse shit.
trinque: tbh bitching about the openbsd ports tree is a matter of having missed the point; pester the maintainer or become him if you want something changed.
trinque: and obviously the hardware's all rotten too; I get that, but that's not an argument in favor of linux.
trinque: worth mentioning too that one's referring to an entire *usable* operating system and the other to only a kernel
asciilifeform: i'm beginning to understand why the enemy is not particularly scared of trb.
asciilifeform: wtf is the point.
phf: i think the "advanced user" workflow is to pick up genkernel config, menuconfig it, put the config back into genkernel, recompile
mircea_popescu: but at any rate, notice how the "worldwide peace" movement seamlessly morphed into the "antiatomic movement" seamlessly morphed into the "ecology" movement.
asciilifeform: y'know, the one in http://perception-point.io/2016/01/14/analysis-and-exploitation-of-a-linux-kernel-vulnerability-cve-2016-0728 .
mircea_popescu: hence why the meanwhile-barbarianized new yorkers couldn't care less if the nuke plant blows.
mircea_popescu: ~CARING~ about the otherwise irrelevant item is ALSO rare and costly and difficult to produce. moreso than a battleship.
mircea_popescu: fortunately, it is not MERELY the atomic bomb that is rare and costly and as difficult to produce as a battleship.
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 07:02:37; asciilifeform: 'Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to p
asciilifeform: !s you and the atomic bomb
asciilifeform: yudkowsky, of all people, wrote some story where there was a planet where they learned to make fusion device with ancient greek level tech. and the survivers evolved. into something strange.
mircea_popescu: "in clar" also denotes plaintext, ie, immediately accessible. no need to explain and mediate their carcass into being, as it were.
mircea_popescu: literally, "thus therefore, i don't see them to clearly", but that "not see clearly" really means, "it won't end up well for them". sort-of like prophet not seeing your future too clearly.
asciilifeform: i'll take the lifeless crater, plox.
mircea_popescu: as the romanian expression goes, "apai atunci nu-i prea vad in clar"
asciilifeform: ~they~ see it.
asciilifeform: i can see hitler and dulles nodding to one another, 'yeah it'll be better to create a planet of castrated zombies'
asciilifeform: since '53 or whenever ulam realized that you don't actually need the fissile firecracker.
asciilifeform: and it won't cost much, either.
mircea_popescu: "here's where washington used to be, that crater to the left. oh, you never saw that 100cc of methane gas, did oyu ? awww!"
mircea_popescu: ie, anyoen can make drugs and you won't be able to detect them and fuck you.
mircea_popescu: in a very "sf" take of the thing - actually workable, and perhaps miniaturizable laser-initiated compression would put the nuclear issue on about the same terms the war on drugs finds itself.
mircea_popescu: "ideally, it would want it not to exist ; but if it must exist, it wants to be the only one to ever have it"
asciilifeform: on one hand, it is the last thing a lizard wants to see appear.
asciilifeform: usg has an interesting relationship with the thing