assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:50:53; trinque: what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?
PeterL: <thestringpuller> I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years << I havn't had to reinstall the OS on my mac in 9 years, it mostly sorta still works
assbot: 0 results for 'story of harrison, the watchmaker' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=story+of+harrison%2C+the+watchmaker
mircea_popescu: !s story of harrison, the watchmaker
asciilifeform: the one who eventually - in his 80s - awarded longitude prize
mircea_popescu: they were trying to emulate the previous functioning of actual science, which was very much b-a.
mircea_popescu: PeterL "peer reviewed journals" became a thing in 1950s, together with state-funded science.
PeterL: thestringpuller I am not really strong on history, I would say 1800s, peer reviewed journals became a thing
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:47:13; trinque: if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429146 << this is not necessarily unworkable - for a long time humans kept domesticated animals but didn't breed them in captivity - merely captured more. yet otherwise, sure.
asciilifeform: i suggest that the craft of producing mircea_popescu henceforth be referred to as momotronics.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429131 << more complicated than that (for instance - i engage enemy on his strong turf all the time, i just don't engage it on its ~chosen~ turf except for final battle), but in principle sure.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:26:45; asciilifeform: rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429103 << well, that's why people are saving, learning romanian, reading up on old theory of law and commercial practice arcana and so on, neh ?
asciilifeform: i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade.
assbot: I Believe I Shall Destroy The Stock Market Again - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1Xg36LW )
funkenstein_: http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/i-believe-i-shall-destroy-the-stock-market-again-16327
thestringpuller: would never use windows machine for exploring the jungle
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: typically browser 'driveby'.
thestringpuller: I dunno how all these people get malware in windows.
thestringpuller: i'm more specifically pointing out formative moments like in 2001 when the monkeys encounter the monolith
funkenstein_: there you go :)
funkenstein_: aha but micro-black holes, big bang cosmology, "the singularity", etc.
thestringpuller: i don't think there are any grants for turning led into gold
funkenstein_: well if you can get a grant from the king to do real chemistry by suggesting there might be immortality in it, why not?
thestringpuller: I agree we should stop playing fast and loose with the scientific method tho...
thestringpuller: modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry
funkenstein_: thestringpuller, imho as long as grant-writers pull the wool over the eyes of the grantors, alchemy continues
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Was looking at that actually, may make the cut.
asciilifeform: http://www.wptz.com/politics/first-on-cnn-us-plans-to-publicly-blame-iran-for-dam-cyber-breach/38444226 << in other lulz.
thestringpuller: PeterL: being a chemist what was the formative era when alchemy became chemistry?
PeterL: funkenstein_ or do you just have to ask which keys are in his wot, and you can generate a tree from there?
asciilifeform: which others can CHOOSE to pollinate from.
asciilifeform: theer is only 'included by YOU'
funkenstein_: this implies there is also no "included"
asciilifeform: where mircea_popescu argues that there being ~any such thing~ as a shared-by-all checkpoint is a Bad Thing
funkenstein_: also if people don't like a patch SN which you have in the base, they will not get to use your patch
asciilifeform: (maybe ants are not the best example, but ~the mold on the cheese~ is. mold is necessary and useful in the RIGHT PLACES)
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, so if I would like to make/rebase a patch.. i should take the longest chain I have seen as the base of the diff?
asciilifeform: they are parasites.
PeterL: <asciilifeform> the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant. << I dun get it, how does miners not including your txn equate to raiding the kitchen?
asciilifeform: none of MY either.
asciilifeform: maybe he hit the button with his elbow, what.
funkenstein_: heh :) well having to pay miners for their service hardly implies something broken to me
asciilifeform: the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant.
asciilifeform: ants are welcome to choose which crumb on the floor to eat. BUT it had better be INCONSPICUOUS and they had BETTER stay out of the refrigerator.
asciilifeform: it emboldened the fuckers for... what we see now.
asciilifeform: i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.
asciilifeform: ftr i still see the high-S thing as a deplorable compromise
nubbins`: prepping the crate for airdrop today
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i dunno about your planet, but on mine it is state of the art.
funkenstein_: i guess if it is repeated enough, it is indeed in the canon
asciilifeform: there's at least two full platoons of asciilifeforms for every mircea_popescu .
asciilifeform: what's the failure rate for making mircea_popescus ?
trinque: if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable
asciilifeform: oh there is a trick
trinque: make the room!!!!111!!11!1
trinque: there are more books on mathematics than could ever possibly be read by one person in one lifetime
asciilifeform: teach the survivers, maths.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has the canonical advice, i cannot beat it, have 1000 children, beat'em within a mm of their life, kill the dumbest 9/10th
trinque: I have trb dev time today. it does not address the point made about education and its function in a culture
trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand
asciilifeform: even if i could speak to them.
asciilifeform: and i could not necessarily persuade them that it is a good idea.
asciilifeform: but it is not clear to me that those who pick up the pieces will choose to do anything resembling civilization.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 <-- one thing i've learned reading here is that this attitude leads to thermodynamic death / intellectual wasteland more quickly than i had expected
asciilifeform: what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??
asciilifeform: do you recall the thread re: how people born in '90s cannot think worth half a damn ?
trinque: what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?
asciilifeform: i fully expect that it will take 100+ yrs of AGGRESSIVE sanity to create the peoplecaliber of 1980 again.
asciilifeform: the OLD world.
trinque: if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.
trinque: *they* made this world, and what is the proposal for the other? I suppose engineers and mathematicians will burst from the womb having spent 9 months proving theorems
trinque: I can see very well that you're not engaging me on the turf I proposed
mod6: i guess therealbitcoin.com expires on 22-10-2016
mod6: ah. i think you can let it go. we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' for at least the next 4 years iirc. (good until 2020), and im not sure about therealbitcoin.com -- i didn't register that one.
jurov: mod6 no, there was promo for .info. so i regged it and forgot
asciilifeform: all i can offer is this other kind of force.
trinque: here's the thing
trinque: I was hoping for the reading list!
asciilifeform: rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !
BingoBoingo: there is also locust tree I am not candidate because it likely no longer has a solid core and will likely require its removal to be outsourced.
asciilifeform: there is an excellent scene of 16 c. horse-drawn impalement in the pl film 'Ogniem i mieczem' ('with fire and sword').
BingoBoingo: Aha! I have three trees several times too big then and none the right size. I like the big ones though. Will have to look up primary sources.
asciilifeform: but historians in the audience are welcome to correct me.
asciilifeform: the last instance i recall of a formal sentence of impalement was, iirc, in 1740s, and it was commuted at the last minute to beheading
asciilifeform: the stake was in ru penal code through the 18th c. so we happen to know a good bit of craft concerning how & what.
asciilifeform: (typically, tree was chosen to be ~telephone pole wide. so that victim would have to wait 2-3 days for the bones to spread, or to die of thirst)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, very thin weedy thing. But it's height had become a concern given it's proximity to the power line.
asciilifeform: (though spending will still suck donkey balls then)
asciilifeform: can't blame'im either
asciilifeform: maybe p even takes payment in the tree bark he eats
mircea_popescu: oh, perelman takes money now ? darn, i should headhunt the original
asciilifeform: l0l mircea_popescu thinks he could afford my brother , ahaha.
asciilifeform: i only got 1 brother.
mircea_popescu: hey, is this the fellow that used to game program ?
asciilifeform: it will still be a few yrs. before it becomes impossible to play on the net.
asciilifeform: bulldozer, in the end, always wins
asciilifeform: (and to exist in the conditions where playing is a thing, for which the money is. but the money is strictly secondary.)
asciilifeform: they want ~to play~
mircea_popescu: "win, either way, 1mn or 10, your call"
mircea_popescu: anyway, thanks god for kakobrekla's idea of implementing that calculator on site, otherwise with bets like these that draw loads of noobs (i don't mean to bitrcoin, or to betting, i mean to thinking) we'd have had degrees of magnitude more idiotic spew.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker....
mircea_popescu: how about the fee gets taken out of mps fortune, and losers are refunded for good measure.
asciilifeform: covered in shit from walking through heathen world, and they never wash, so still smell it
mircea_popescu: "No kidding. What a scam this site is. I suppose they're planning on people not really reading the FAQ. I mean it calculates the odds for you and says 1 pays 1 but that's a LIE."
asciilifeform would be quite stimulated to learn who was responsible for the ~30 btc flurry of 'yes' bets in the 12 hrs or so before the game
asciilifeform: in the sense of not invoking dll loader at any point - YES.
asciilifeform could easily sanitize the thing, if .... etc.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 14:28:06; jurov: the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the incredible insanity of naming a girl carice. carici being one of the numerous ways you can say cunt in romanian.
asciilifeform: well, aside from the motherland burning and my being powerless to do anything about it on account of sitting on a sharpened telephone pole, i'm having a marvelous day !11
asciilifeform: i've spend my counterfactual-juice for the day
asciilifeform: and i appreciate mircea_popescu firing death rays at the enemy !
mircea_popescu: well, either that or screaming at all teh folk who try things.
asciilifeform: in practice i'm stuck doing pretty much 100% of the ab-initio b-a stuff.
mircea_popescu: all the things that there are can in principle be understood, or as the old jew said (in fiddler on the roof) - there is a blessing for everything.
mircea_popescu: the world is not a picture, alf. the world is a moving thing. let people be wouldja!
asciilifeform: i wish this were not so, but so far afaik the set of folks who understand everything from galois theory to O(..) runtimes to sdram bus timings includes 1) mircea_popescu 2) asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: Pet The Manul. (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i never did either, before we began.
mircea_popescu: there was a manual floating about, lesseee
mircea_popescu: ideally they'd all be different
mircea_popescu: if you die one day what then ? etc.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even saying that, nor is it even needed. even if you ~could~ actually, provavly, known from my personal discussion with the all-knowing god, do it, what the fuck sort of arrangement is this, "so b-a exists so that alf can fix it" ? how is it better than you know, hiring microsoft to do it.
mircea_popescu: looky, lashing at me is not liable to do much. the point remains that this "i could do except alas" line is a total waste of time and utterly broken in so many parts it's not worth fixing.
mircea_popescu: not the line contemplated here.
mircea_popescu: so you're on the space station now, with your 4ton, ie, 200k volume library ?
PeterL: That is about what my in-laws pay, and they are on daily medications and recovering from extensive surgery/cancer treatment
mircea_popescu: also, health at 1k a month is RIDICULOUS. pretty much all over the world, cancer treatment runs you 1k/mo.
PeterL: <asciilifeform> health is still ~1k/mo. << you just added another thing to the list, now we are up to 32k, still nowhere near 500k
PeterL: I'm not saying downshift, just get out of the land of outrageous rents!
mircea_popescu: i was talking in the general!
mircea_popescu: by this logic, the gardener who is free needs a garden, but the movie director who is free needs his own studio. the cost of their respective freedoms, many degrees of magnitude apart.
mircea_popescu: i can readily see a definition of freedom as "one has enough resources to protect himself from the outside world". this definition is impractical, however, belonging to the sphere chicken world.
asciilifeform does not like to waste bandwidth but generally answers folks when they ask things.
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 00:01:57; asciilifeform: 'Élisabeth de Rothschild (née de Chambure; a.k.a. Lili; March 9, 1902 - March 23, 1945) was a member by marriage of the wine-making branch of the Rothschild family.'
mircea_popescu: it goes, for me, in the same pile as xmas cardano, phuctor two weeks ago, and wahtever the fuck her name was,
asciilifeform: price of not having to look for work for a year, hypothetically.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:36:51; punkman: anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428609 << doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag in the ~same sense it didn't hurt to come up with a specific named rotschild, which then didn't count.
shinohai: Here you go asciilifeform - arrange a stupid conference and charge a coupla grand to get a foldup chair in the nearest Best Western. http://www.coindesk.com/events/consensus-2016/register/
mircea_popescu: the discussion is a whole not a half. yes we both understand one half of it. now you understand the other half of it.
mircea_popescu: if there could be solid weapon in 1/2-1y, you would have long ago been free man. that you aren't makes the proposition rather dubious.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the ideas of a not free man about what freedom'd do to him are null and void.
asciilifeform: as i said to the lsd folks, if i were free man, there would be a solid weapon in 1/2y - 1y. BUT this is a flight to alpha centauri, because i am NOT a free man.
mircea_popescu: yes there are some cases where it has redistributed some dollars. in this sense, the numbers racket as practiced between the same poor black marginals 50 years ago also "worked".
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:28; asciilifeform: the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing
mircea_popescu: wouldja try and engage what's actually on the table rather than what's in the noggin ?
mircea_popescu: yes, sure, we'll be sooner or later coming out with the perfect bitcoin, or die trying.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 15:31:37; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.
mircea_popescu: did the separation discussed in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428706 connect, at all ?
asciilifeform: work for 20 y or until dead to kill them all.
mircea_popescu: "de gods" are not there for you to blame.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather we be prepared, if possible, and i pointedly not care how unpleasant a discussion may be to anyone's/everyone's favourite assumptions. so here we are.
mircea_popescu: things are happening with or without permission, as a general rule. either you're prepared for the possible outcomes, or not.
asciilifeform: the 1,2,3,might have to choose thing
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:54:35; asciilifeform: it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.
asciilifeform: but yes, i would like to have the horse.
asciilifeform: it is like saying 'you conceded in a game of chess when you were 5, why not concede your father's house'
mircea_popescu: i don't see the future well enough to judge what chances we have, but i do see the future well enough to see that if you have no horse in a race, you can't win it.
mircea_popescu: understand that if there's a summer of crazy, a NEW schelling will emerge.
asciilifeform: see the schelling point thread.
mircea_popescu: hey. i have no artgument there.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428545 << i'm not suggesting anything. i'm saying, plainly, that AT LEAST ONCE in the past, you sucked a cock, which is how you are on THIS blockchain. so the argument "i'm no whore" holds no water. you WILL suck others in the future - best make sure they're ours.
asciilifeform: and i will not spread arse for invader, and am not open to persuasion re same, hopefully this needs no further elucidation
mircea_popescu: so basically you propose - wait and see on trb, meanwhile i'll also develop a fork variant which i won't either share or have ready in time ?
asciilifeform: but i will not fellate the invader.
asciilifeform: the set of available actions is small, and, i think, well-enumerated at this point.
mircea_popescu: anyway - what isn't a strategy is "if the bad thing happens i'll get really butthurt".
asciilifeform: would rather eat nagan.
asciilifeform: but i will not spread legs for the nazis.
mircea_popescu: which is the meaning ofwhat i said.
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, "trb as is only" opens us up to being forced, later on, to pick among the idiots.
asciilifeform: NOR permit his dirty hands to further rape bitcoin src.
mircea_popescu: there is a very specific danger which you perhaps are not seeing. if indeed we continu with trb as is, and if indeed 3) happens, as these two share pow and we don't control .7 or so exahash we become extremelty vulnerable. recall the fate of altcoin ?
asciilifeform: i will NOT be complicit in a reallocation of chainvalue to the enemy.
mircea_popescu: eliding the complements makes this discussion dangerous, both to us and to the future.
asciilifeform: and it is NOT the same.
mircea_popescu: but you should note, that there is no good reason to consider current trb so much different from cases 1-3.
mircea_popescu: at this juncture, tmsr must make the decision if it will continue strictly with trb, or ALSO offer a tmsr fork of trb.
mircea_popescu: tomorrow, there will be : 1) mit-hardfork, run by gavin and whatever anand prakashen they can find.
mircea_popescu: currently, there exists bitcoin. while this is soupier than we'd like and perhaps the collapsed eigenstate is slowly vibrating away into an undecided cloud, nevertheless, for the sake of discussion, let's say.
mircea_popescu: most of the crud you operate on was written by gavin & co.
asciilifeform: but there were reasons why i was willing to operate on his crud.
mircea_popescu: in any case : while a hierarchy could perhaps be constructed in the "not in wot" pile, as you propose or otherwise,
mircea_popescu: the code looks pretty shitty...
mircea_popescu: note that hearn and gavin were "there" since year 2.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no proof you can produce for this strontium assertion.
mircea_popescu: 2. is the usable interim continuation of the bitcoin prototype. which, obviously, doesn't HAVE TO exist at all points to 1, but it may help if it does. we're here mostly discussing 2, i think.
mircea_popescu: 1 is, the perfect bitcoin. which, logically, would NOT conserve coinbases. as such, it has no meaningful humantime continuity with the present Bitcoin, and so it can be done at any point etc.
asciilifeform: pointedly not the same.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:48:50; asciilifeform: so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.
mircea_popescu: and note that i include (continue with current bitcoin) in the same (intelligence outside the wot) pile. which it is.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~
mircea_popescu: why do you suppose wanna-be singer/waitress sends demos with britney spears' stuff rather than actual music ? "this is fashionable, maybe some rubs off on me!"
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:07; fluffypony: most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428498 << they do, but don't wish to say.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428491 << guy does have it. "bitcoin" as seen by the prb/social media crowd is 99% solutions looking for a problem by weight.
punkman: diana_coman: i just hated everything about it. moving/finding things in inventory, trying to equip things and and ending up with phantom copies if I didn't click just right. Trying to walk and floating at a 45 degree angle, falling to death off smooth hills. The claim sticks that are "points" in space and keys and... I dunno. I suppose some of that might have changed already.
nubbins`: thestringpuller / diana_coman it's worth noting that for a game like eulora, which should conceivably have massive amounts of art assets down the road, easier tools for getting those assets in place will drastically increase the volume and quality of em
mircea_popescu: punkman well, maybe wehen jurov releases the slime client :D
diana_coman: uhm, thestringpuller I'll certainly have to study that, so I'll possibly get back to you on this then
thestringpuller: diana_coman: it's a textfile that has no middleware for artist to import assets into the engine. you have to either write it yourself or place the geometry in their yourself. It's 2016 not 1993.
diana_coman: depends on what you mean by "ideas" (i.e. desires in that direction plenty) and by getting rid of planeshift (code is already quite far - in a good sense - from original planeshift and yes, I absolutely want to take it further away)