mircea_popescu: there's been if memory serves exactly one case of delisted company on these grounds, bvps.
ben_vulpes: mk. then the contractual obligation bitbet is failing to uphold leading to its delisting would be kakobrekla's declining to convey his acceptance of the statement, without which shareholders cannot be paid out?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell mats feel like running another audit on bbet's reserve capital ?
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 18 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 12 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already
ben_vulpes: and be in the wot.
ben_vulpes: and the db.
ascii_field: and as i understand, receiver needs the technical ability to unravel kakobrekla's code
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: game theoretically permawedges obviously.
mircea_popescu: i don't specifically care. as long as the person seems competent... hey.
mircea_popescu: well yeah, if either vetoes very little can be done.
ben_vulpes: this is going to be hung, as the receiver will have to answer as to the disposition of your charge, and either way one of the founders is going to refuse an unfriendly nominee.
mircea_popescu: even if somehow all the ducks got lined up, it needs some publicity.
ben_vulpes: also auction not the best model, lowest bidding receiver is not a particularly good idea.
mircea_popescu: when a venture goes into receivership a person is named (usually by the courts) to receive all the assets, and register all the claims against it. then decide which claims are valiud, and how much they're getting.
ascii_field: it has to pay back the 17 first, no?
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: for that to happen, the receiver'd have to invalidate mircea_popescu's charge.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: unless i misread, there is no way it can fully pay out bettors
mircea_popescu: but let's not talk of things being moot and sad stuff like that. instead : bitbet isn't actually missing any bettor funds, the whole receiver thing could be done in a week.
pete_dushenski: declined, though he did manage to leave with US$82 million … in exchange for a US$300 million mortgage. When Trump’s investors from Hong Kong cashed out more than a decade later, US$1.8 billion in profits awaited them. Thin-skinned as ever, Trump sued them."
pete_dushenski: "Moneyed folk in Hong Kong know of his phoniness, mainly because of something that happened in the early 1990s. Trump bungled a real estate deal in New York City, one that would have truly established him as a titan of America, and he needed cash fast. He came to Hong Kong looking for investors, and met them for a game of golf. They wanted to play for US$1 million a hole. Trump knew he was out of his league and
ben_vulpes: probably /also/ already disqualified for stating his opinions on the matter.
pete_dushenski: in other china news, http://www.ejinsight.com/20160312-how-china-sees-trump-and-what-is-missed/
ascii_field: but there i go.
pete_dushenski: thank goodness i've been wearing my plague mask in the bedroom of late. it brought me luck!
assbot: Logged on 13-03-2016 20:51:27; mircea_popescu: anyway, to be perfectly clear, i don't think kakobrekla did anything wrong at any juncture, nor am i privately holding anything against the man. while the outcome is miserable, i dun think there's necessarily much that could have been done to prevent it.
ben_vulpes: nor can you pay bettors out after yourself in the process of dissolution.
mircea_popescu: well what the fuck, i'm not leaving this in my will fee tail.
ben_vulpes: "I will simply consider the matter moot." << and keep bettor funds if no receiver steps forward?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski the way start-ups usually work is that they look good, but if forcibly deflated midstride it's tears all around.
ascii_field: and actually yeah, if bbet were yielding 100btc/day or whatever, it could eat the bird in the engine and keep flying
ascii_field: aha this is sorta like a superconductor, a very small pocket of not-superconducting-no-moar leads to thermal runaway and quench and boom.
ascii_field: if 10,001 orcs show up at the gates
mircea_popescu: and all sorts of costs that the fiat system eats, are not here eaten by anything.
mircea_popescu: hence my comment about fragility. there are two main threads here that would-be bitcoin entrepreneurs must heed quite closely. one is that - your expense structure is not either a) in your own control or b) specificable. for as long as your business model involves bitcoin as it currently exists, you're doing the economic equivalent of linking remote dlls.
pete_dushenski: then don't get hit !
pete_dushenski: then too broke for mpex
mircea_popescu: there was certainly a tinge of that.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be perfectly clear, i don't think kakobrekla did anything wrong at any juncture, nor am i privately holding anything against the man. while the outcome is miserable, i dun think there's necessarily much that could have been done to prevent it.
mircea_popescu: and in spite of being uncharacteristically verbose for a human being... apparently i don't write everything either.
ascii_field: i suppose it is true that inventor never has half a clue re the long term.
mircea_popescu: i invent things by degrees and i can't always and on the button answer as to the logic of things. they go in a context. i know for a fact the arrangement make sense in 2012, but entirely hazy as to the reasoning.
ascii_field: if not him then who.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field> bbet long pre-dates my study of mircea_popescutronics, and i have nfi <<< it's not terribly clear to me either, after all these years.
ben_vulpes: oh ffs BingoBoingo with the mythical miner cartel
ben_vulpes: the problem appears to not be "unexpected expense" but a disagreement between the founders as to the legitimacy of the expense.
ascii_field: bbet long pre-dates my study of mircea_popescutronics, and i have nfi, was the plan that it could never incur unexpected expense ?
ascii_field: also i realized that i never learned what was the logic for 0asset operations ?
ascii_field: the least senior.' <<< interesting
ascii_field: 'This line of credit carries seniority above that of shareholders and below that of bettors.' was mircea_popescu's earlier verdict, but now 'Bitbet's liabilities are currently comprised of various bills (such as the 17.94766149 BTC it owes as per this report, such as whatever fee it may owe the receiver for his trouble, and others as may arise), which are the most senior ; with the remainder to go to payouts to th
ascii_field: anyway while i expect to eventually be smashed into pieces, i do not expect anyone to actually pick any of them up. nor do i really give a damn.
ascii_field: i can more easily see mircea_popescu raising a guerilla army in nepal or the like.
mircea_popescu: so then no, mp isn't learning any ada. if mp wanted to learn ada, he would have.
mircea_popescu: that i'm perpetually going to pick up the pieces. i'm not.
mircea_popescu: i must say the experience has been rather sobering as to all sorts of naive assumptions as to value, wealth and economics in the bitcoin world.
assbot: The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1phuhuR )
mircea_popescu: in other news, bitbet headed into receivership : http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#comment-116766
ascii_field: eventually either the lizards will move, or mircea_popescu will grow tired of me, or my health simply gives out, and mircea_popescu will have to learn ada and relearn numbertheory himself...
ascii_field: i already stand on th board with only one foot, in having lately to spend virtually all of my time working on idiotic rubbish so as to pay the rent.
ascii_field: jurov: since you mentioned it, i will explain that i can be taken off the gameboard in any of 1,001 different simple ways, by the lizards, and i have no defense, and that you and the rest should expect this to happen sooner or later and study accordingly
assbot: Logged on 13-03-2016 14:32:19; ascii_field: my hypothesis is that he was not paid to lose, as such, but to keep a particular style of play, and he believed that he could win regardless.
ascii_field: the only reason it has not happened is that i'm ineffective and uninteresting to anyone...
ascii_field: nothing to stop them from doing it right now.
jurov: but i did not ask about ubuntu. i asked about m$ suing you about infringing their patents
assbot: Logged on 13-03-2016 18:51:57; danielpbarron: jurov> i wonder what alf will do << lemme try and fill in while he's away : mega-snore! ubuntu, the winbl0wz of linux, thought it could make a smart-f0ne when obviously the mobile world is for usg-blessed corps
ascii_field: in 4th game lee sedol actually decided to play with both hands and wiped the floor with the bot.
ben_vulpes: at least i only had to type my password the *first* time i booted bitcoin under gdb
ben_vulpes: there is no getting away fluffypony
ben_vulpes: let's just cram all the things i hate about my life into one tidy little package
ben_vulpes: here's to the grand unified microsoft-brand-linux-that-can-build-ios-apps
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo i have nfi what's going on with those two articles. they don't even make sense. << I'll get to cutting
assbot: Microsoft Has Just Blackmailed Linux Twice in One Single Week and the Media Didn’t Notice or Just Ignored It Because of Microsoft’s Charm Offensives | Techrights ... ( http://bit.ly/1pFcOx1 )
mircea_popescu: nice work with the html parser, how's it going ?
lexborisov: I need to get away for awhile. After returning to read through the links
lexborisov: Hi, there!
thestringpuller: dunno what the hate on Neural Nets is...
ascii_field: my hypothesis is that he was not paid to lose, as such, but to keep a particular style of play, and he believed that he could win regardless.
ascii_field: in chinese sphere, there are also suspicions, e.g., lee sedol avoided starting ko (which bots have never shined at) until 3rd game, where he did so quite ineptly and after his loss was quite cemented
ascii_field: the pile of 'yes' bets in the last few hours prior to closing, the particulars of how lee sedol went down, and now the 4th - give me a certain picture.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: spent some time going over the games.
mircea_popescu: they apparently didn't realise this going in. no ai in pr, yet.
mircea_popescu: but as a sidepoint, this "style" thing is a lot like make-up. most young women look great without it ; in some cases, when well applied, can turn even mediocre women into total knockouts. but by the time it's measured by the lb, it ain't doing anyone any good.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i have nfi what's going on with those two articles. they don't even make sense.
nubbins`: i admittedly DGAF about sedol vs alphago, but wasn't the series best 3 out of 5?
BingoBoingo: "The study of 152 horses from Devon and Cornwall found that just one in 20 riders is within the optimum weight range."
BingoBoingo: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/9952758/The-horses-saddled-with-our-obesity-epidemic.html
BingoBoingo: forgot the scare quotes
BingoBoingo: Anyways I guess today is danielpbarron shits on the Bill Gates charitable legacy day.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Well there's a difference between what it wants to eat and what it shits out
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: For some reason the line spacing in this one got weird and it was infested with <div> tags, just cleaning them up and it will go up.
BingoBoingo: ty, another great find
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phf: when i see these people https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/e/e5/Fattrannys.jpg they now remind me of BingoBoingo and his crusade
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu Apologies for my latest qntra being a bit on the long side, but had to shame United States Gang while promoting my pet cause of preventing people from being born more retarded than they have to be
assbot: Counterpoint: Fuck Them All To Death – Complete Mosquito Eradication Overdue | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/22adR9m )
BingoNewsButt: http://qntra.net/2016/03/counter-point-fuck-them-all-to-death-complete-mosquito-eradication-overdue/
phf: wintermute (btcbase machine) is unfit for the purpose, since i suspect digitalocean will kill it pretty fast
phf: i have block explorer code, i think last time i touched it i was working on getting all the various hashes link to the right places (previous transaction, addresses, etc.)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: so there are includes in both .h and .cpp
ben_vulpes: i looked at main's imports and didn't see it including any other bitcoind namespaces pulling in the openssl/sha files
ben_vulpes: phf: while i have your attention, do you have any idea how the various SHA256_Init, _Transform functions get into main.cpp?
phf: the dodgy name betrays a dodgy abstraction of the "too much shit here, put that shit over there, nice and tidy like" school of code refactoring
phf: or at the very least ScanHash_CryptoPP inlined into bitcoin miner, can just do hash<=hashTarget check immediately inside if (((unsigned short*)phash)[14] == 0)
ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#2671 << is there a good reason to be doing this check inside ScanHash_CryptoPP's loop rather than just returning from SC_CPP on each iteration?
assbot: Was The Woman Giving The Nazi Salute At Trump Rally In Chicago A Supporter Of Donald Or Bernie? | The Daily Caller ... ( http://bit.ly/1V1P7e4 )
BingoBoingo: In other entirely expected failures at lulz http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/12/was-the-woman-giving-the-nazi-salute-at-trump-rally-in-chicago-a-supporter-of-donald-or-bernie/
assbot: What the John Kasich profile tells us about where he's been and where he might be heading | cleveland.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1pmuDB9 )
mircea_popescu: http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2014/05/what_the_john_kasich_profile_t.html << 2014.
mod6: <+shinohai> mod6: i built this as qemu img so i can try to make mirror of the whole shebang. << ah ok
mircea_popescu: it's like the hot topic of electoral derpitude. where pruny old ladies from ohio copy/paste stuff from the reddits.
shinohai: are there pre-existing Eulora banners somewhere? or can one acquire rights to the imagery ?
mircea_popescu: Kasich: Women 'left their kitchens' to help him campaign
BingoBoingo generally directs less attention to vice presidential candidates like the Ohio guy
BingoBoingo: Aha, they all try to make derpy memes nao
BingoBoingo: Yeah, but he's been running to barter his delegates in a brokered convention the whole time. Not a serious candidate like Cruz or Sanders
mircea_popescu: and they "coined a term" to "help him breakout", something like kasichwhat was it
mircea_popescu: do you know he's the "light of hope" or some nonsense ?
mircea_popescu: do you know about the derp from ohio, btw ?
BingoBoingo: Been working on ways to handle Trump-CLinton or Girl-Clinton January, but still need to work on the Cowboy Cruz and Mormon Mitt contingencies.
BingoBoingo: Gotta make sure we can live with the labels.
mircea_popescu: the embattled self-styled "us president", for one.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo speaking of which, perhaps it's time to start referencing usg as "the government IN washington" ? not like it's legitimate or anything. << I'll have to do some reading into the right way to deny them legitimacy in writing
shinohai: mod6: i built this as qemu img so i can try to make mirror of the whole shebang.
mircea_popescu: yeah something like on the sidebar.
mod6: we've seen what happens there.
mod6: you probably should have a box on your lan that you can periodically offload the block chain to, incase of power outage.
mod6: oh, i fucked up the url
mod6: shinohai: cool! what do you wanna test? probably should get all the pre-req's installed and then build trb with the latest build script: http://deedot.org/build-bitcoind-V99995.sh
phf: also, holy mother of logs
phf: the area is Willamette National Forest, some hiking distance away from Breitenbush
phf: ben_vulpes: also dood wtf you stop in the city, swing through powells, and can't go 2 mi out of the way to get your eyes on my fp and mine on yours? << i'm guilty as charged, but it was not intended as a slight, so please don't take it as such. i needed to clear my head, and while i thought i should reach out, i didn't have it in me. this is not the last time i'm in Oregon this year, so i promise to not make the same mistake again :)
phf: i think there's a fukamachi project that does html parsing with the intent of scrapping, but it's the guy behind woo http server (i.e. cffi to libev, full "modernizayshn" kool aid), http://cl21.org, so i've not looked at it
phf: asciilifeform: b) readermacro in commonlisp, it turns into s-expression as well formed as the html, and the resulting proggy is what, ten line. << i wish, closure-html is 4252 uloc, depends on cxml 7881 uloc, depends on closure-common 2053 uloc.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: it's on their fucking heads. when i'm not willing to pay as much as a farthing for the continuance of the world they built, this'd be why.
asciilifeform: they produced megatonne of shit
asciilifeform: which is why i do not succumb to the temptation of maintaining a public linux flavour, for instance
asciilifeform: i use plenty of loathesome things
asciilifeform: because 'correct' MEANS, among ither things, fits-in-head.
asciilifeform: it is the very example of Things That Must Die
asciilifeform: i hope they get 'sooorprised' by falling anvil.
asciilifeform: aaaand that's where i jump off that train into the underbrush and join up with the partizans.
mircea_popescu: "and do this in the manner everyone else is, so developers aren't too surprised"
asciilifeform: b) readermacro in commonlisp, it turns into s-expression as well formed as the html, and the resulting proggy is what, ten line.
mircea_popescu: just like you know, the elector of saxony being konig im as opposed of konig der. for as long as he stays home he can pretend he's king.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo speaking of which, perhaps it's time to start referencing usg as "the government IN washington" ? not like it's legitimate or anything.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, someone's supposed to buy this shit or something ? oh, if nato invades some place and then calls it a civil war then totally ?
mircea_popescu: funny that the official name of the nato invasion of lybia is "the libyan civil war".
asciilifeform: and didn't reagan murder his other daughter?
mircea_popescu: she also sued nato for you know, bombing a building and killing her brother and daughter. nato however wasn't sent to jail, because also reasons.
asciilifeform: bud did they swift it!111 ahahahal0
mircea_popescu: then banks decided to steal all her money, because reasons.
mircea_popescu: anyway, but speaking of the madam : aisha gaddafi is a rather interesting case. about our age, guy's only daughter iirc, ex un something-or-the-other.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431133 << i saw the choice gibblets pop up in ru sphere and tracked them to the motherturd
mircea_popescu: lmao, check this out : apparently sometime cca 2008, one oleh soskin said that nato membership [for the ukraine] is favoured by women, they being... the more intelligent part of the electorate.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: feel welcome to use the piece of fine lultronium in an article if it fits, i would greatly enjoy reading such
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2016 12:24:34; mircea_popescu: you can now spend this lulz in any of the affiliated lulzshops
mircea_popescu: in other lolz :
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2016 07:50:48; punkman: "Next in turn are the CSS parser and Renderer. I'm writing them all by myself, still full of energy. "
nubbins`: "i own the women you'd be proud to call girlfriend" << lol
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431095 << a) who the fuck do you imagine owns cattle and pretends they're women ; b) srsly now, this isn't how it works, you redefine the context. i own the women you'd be proud to call girlfriend, as cattle. and yes, they have exactly nothing against this arrangement, in fact, they bluntly prefer being owned by me than being your girlfriend. now you're lookin at the prob
mircea_popescu: nice font o.O. who's scws. where's the provably fair link ? why would i play roulette, i don't want to give you 5% or w/e the fuck the edge was. 1% is generous, this is not 1750.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2016#1431086 << that's not how things work, "oh, minor typo in the torah, it meant dwarves are the chosen people".
mircea_popescu: (for a reasonably well documented case of this, see the various middle eastern deals that didn't include the derp)
mircea_popescu: not even the secret services of the various powers can be bothered anymore. ~nobody cares what obama says in any sense.
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2016 05:09:02; assbot: President Obama’s Interview With Jeffrey Goldberg on Syria and Foreign Policy - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1U7JRX1 )
gribble: decimation was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 31 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <decimation> I enjoyed my time here, learned much, had many lolz. I do not wish to cause drama or be an impediment to improving bitcoin. Even though I presently have L2 rating from a few people, I am not going impose on their good grace by remaining. God bless all of you.
mircea_popescu: you can now spend this lulz in any of the affiliated lulzshops
punkman: "Next in turn are the CSS parser and Renderer. I'm writing them all by myself, still full of energy. "
assbot: Gmane -- Call for support for lisp in the WebAssembly development. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pCPgsu )
funkenstein_: hmm.. only called from within the miner
funkenstein_: up next: "ethereum could own russia" ?
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 13:41:29; mircea_popescu: depends to. the problem here is that high value males are interested in owning females, not interested in producing litter. consequently, western world has fertility crisis.
funkenstein_: what beast? I recommend "operators manual for spaceship earth" B.Fuller for details on how there's no beast here
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 20:34:41; asciilifeform: jurov: the beast is not bleeding. it moved coin from its left pocket to right.
asciilifeform: tely stupid. He understands that Russia’s overall position in the world is significantly diminished. And the fact that he invades Crimea or is trying to prop up Assad doesn’t suddenly make him a player. You don’t see him in any of these meetings out here helping to shape the agenda. For that matter, there’s not a G20 meeting where the Russians set the agenda around any of the issues that are important.”'
asciilifeform: '“The truth is, actually, Putin, in all of our meetings, is scrupulously polite, very frank. Our meetings are very businesslike. He never keeps me waiting two hours like he does a bunch of these other folks.” Obama said that Putin believes his relationship with the U.S. is more important than Americans tend to think. “He’s constantly interested in being seen as our peer and as working with us, because he’s not comple
asciilifeform: or, almost worthy of the prb folks,
asciilifeform: e.g., '“isis is not an existential threat to the United States,” he told me in one of these conversations. “Climate change is a potential existential threat to the entire world if we don’t do something about it.” '
assbot: President Obama’s Interview With Jeffrey Goldberg on Syria and Foreign Policy - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1U7JRX1 )
asciilifeform: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525 << deep gold mine of obamitler lulz
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: if derpy site is going to print numbers, might as well print the same ones. one'd think.
mircea_popescu: either totally wrong or totally right or w/e. i guess mods will see to it.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the site's totally borked, huh.
mircea_popescu: there's a graph, it doesn't touch 1bn.
granny: just below the price
granny: look at the market cap
granny: 800 million is from the graph which is wrong
granny: Hi, the link to coincap.io shows over a billion right now
granny: The bet here bitbet.us/bet/1248/ethereum-to-top-1-billion-market-cap-before/ is resolved, as Ethereum just surpassed billion market cap.
mircea_popescu looks at qntra article, sees chorus of derps going "pay fee!!1". i'm so glad bitcoin evanghelism dragged in the webizens srsly.
mircea_popescu: in other rebar hooks and crumbling concrete news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp3f4xtbeZ1qc5bcno1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: maybe enjoy some um bongo in the interim ?
mircea_popescu: o brother.
asciilifeform: srsly the sheet zimbabwe
mircea_popescu: https://www.quora.com/Who-will-win-the-Bitcoin-blocksize-war << nothing quite like 15 month old derpage.
mircea_popescu: it's this fashion thing, i guess every third unemployed/able chick is making artisanal soap these days.
mircea_popescu: apparently the etsy chicks are getting militant.
mircea_popescu: (actually, amusingly enough, swift docs date from just about the era ada was fashionable. there was such a time - just like that time in the 90s when everyone was eager to implement linux-y things and you didn't really have to sell it at all, whole cities just switched for no reason)
mircea_popescu: so there's a meta-documentation that's secret and a faux documentation that's published ?
asciilifeform: or what, swift operators swore to vishnu to tell the truth and only the complete truth ?
mircea_popescu: why not read the documentation ?
mircea_popescu: the reality of what ?
asciilifeform: care to possibly give a brief picture of the reality ?
mircea_popescu: is he the elite ?
asciilifeform: the system's owner gets to.
mircea_popescu: you could trivially test this swift hypothesis of yours you know - wire a grand to the next nigerian to visit your inbox then write to your bank to reverse it.
mircea_popescu: that's not the proper approach there. consider that you'd "entertain laughably innacurate hypothesis" about a) things that really make no difference to you ; b) with which you have absolutely no experience and c) that have exactly nothing in common with a hypothesis and everything in common with an article of faith.
asciilifeform: anyway i don't do amulets, much as mircea_popescu is convinced of this. i ~might~ entertain laughably inaccurate hypothesis about whatevers, when i have no access (unlike to the inside of a computer) to the priors.
mircea_popescu: mind, selling amulets is a trade like any other trade. wearing them is what was being discussed.
asciilifeform: and the old amulet was also calibrated for a certain kind of idiot
mircea_popescu: (technically speaking, the mp license is actually an anti-amulet, in the sense that it makes life impossible for a certain sort of lunatic. inasmuch as its effectiveness is not predicated on metaphysical but on quite physical considerations, it's just a virus.)