mircea_popescu: the tsar's thing was modest.
mircea_popescu: nobody outside of southeast and central asia tho.
mircea_popescu: the tibetans. also raped.
asciilifeform: the whole crud orchestra - pestilentially high tax, the resulting cancerous bureaucracy, usg as majority economic actor, the lot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: modern usa, taxwise, and in many other respects, is circa 1900 or so.
mircea_popescu: gotta appreciate - the us started exactly as a sort of tmsr of rich smugglers in an england province. conceptually it still sees broadly as this "gentleman's agreement" things etc.
mircea_popescu: ("you'd have to do it in parallel anyway!" "well if you're doing it anyway, wouldn't it be ~rational~ they don';t do it at all and save the cost ?" << that's the logic.)
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron but if they just asked how would you know it's correct!
asciilifeform: they confiscate anything you might have
mircea_popescu: of course unlike that guy you don't have either millions in assets nor a wife more than happy to get it all in exchange for paying tax on it
mircea_popescu: ironically i linked a piece about some other famous tax quarrel guy, who said the same thing (from jail)
asciilifeform: perhaps we can sit in the same jail
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dunno any other philip
mircea_popescu: a, you got the macedon reference ? good for you!
mircea_popescu: just like blocks follow at ~the same intervals,
mircea_popescu: besides the point what non-poor, non-rat poeople invent
mircea_popescu: cue the canuck "renegotiable 5yr rate on 30 yr mortgages", i nearly fell over when i had that confirmed.
mircea_popescu: actual young man goes into unrepayable debt, spends altogether maybe a year or so on the thing ?
mircea_popescu: nfi. bout the same fraction of its life as it takes young male to get his first time house ?
mircea_popescu: i'll have to have that rat thing demonstrated, doesn't seem to make much sense theoretically.
mircea_popescu: we know for a fact it's no crime to be poor, and what follows is that the law doesn't apply to you, just be poor.
mircea_popescu: and the us has switched, and that's what it is.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the way society works is that it's either a crime to be poor ; or else ity's a crime to be rich. alternatives do not exist, it's a strict switch outside of the capacity of convention, like gravity : either motor force or splat.
asciilifeform: no i know about the lumpens.
mircea_popescu: PeterL he has a peculiar notion of poor as "under the weather / skilled immigrant / etc"
PeterL: asciilifeform you are in the working-class
PeterL: there is poor, working-class, and rich
mircea_popescu: the "poor but bright and loyal famr girl" exists in mosfilm propaganda.
asciilifeform: to anything short of thermonuke.
asciilifeform: the crack smokers, as mircea_popescu correctly observes, are more or less invulnerable.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: why would poor people have a job. that's the parole officer's problem.
davout: PeterL: yes, it's a good point, i'll move my comment and keep an eye open to move those that ended up commenting the wrong post
mircea_popescu: and in the beat wife sense and in the won't pay tax/alimony/whatever sense, and in the stalking and raping sense and in all the fucking senses.
asciilifeform: otherwise entirely on crack
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only true in the 'blood from a stone' sense
mircea_popescu: in most sane places, the way it works is that if you are RICH the law doesn't really apply to you. but in the us - converse.
mircea_popescu: in particular " Me: He was convicted on fraud charges; not tax avoidance. The prosecution made the case that he knowingly offered false advice in exchange for customers money." is a distinction without a difference. writing "extempt" when "you shouldn't have" is exactly what "fraud" means in that context.
mircea_popescu: well, poverty is an absolute bar to the workings of law in the us, if you're poor you're priviledged. nevertheless the way this works is that you either say something or go to jail ; and if they decide you didn't say the right thing at some previous point you also go to jail.
mircea_popescu: considering the alternative is reading the logs, 200mn might not even be a bad deal.
mircea_popescu: in completely unrelated lolz, http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/the-worlds-most-expensive-book-will-remain-under-lock-and-key-until-the-march-2009-art-dubai-152983575.html
mircea_popescu: i can't see how ? prolly should put a notice to bid in the right place ?
PeterL: why are people putting bids in the second progress report comments, when the auction is supposed to be held in the comment section of the first progress report?
mircea_popescu: mebbe there's more interest.
davout: not like they're my assets
mircea_popescu: the protocol is not as bad as it is obscure.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1447053 << you don't go //msg NickServ identify p, you go /msg NickServ identify a p and THEN you go release a and then you go ghost a and then you go nick a and you're done.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the concept of multiple "channels" is entirely user-powered, you can make lists of the people you listen to any way you want.
mircea_popescu: trinque> seems the voice model pairs with gossipd rather well, where voicing is a matter of message forwarding rules << it doesn't even pair, it IS it. substance of the universe, not even protocol.
asciilifeform: trinque: you are still thinking in the old style
trinque: so then in this perhaps broken mental model of what the thing is, the trilema node would change whether it's gossiping about received messages based on wot ratings
trinque: I could of course send you messages I somehow say are intended for #trilema entirely aside the point of whether the official node bothers with them
trinque: if one wanted a #trilema on the thing, that would perhaps be a matter of there being a #trilema node distinguishing official vs heathen chatter by what it bothers to send along to other nodes?
trinque: seems the voice model pairs with gossipd rather well, where voicing is a matter of message forwarding rules
trinque: eh I guess you end up doing both, because then you've still gotta nickserv auth
trinque: phf: seems if my nick is automagically changed, my welcome hook would notice that and do the ghost as written
asciilifeform: not built into the language in any sense
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these were ~examples~
phf: so the entire nickserv machinery is required
trinque: right, my func is a hook for the welcome message
phf: trinque: nah, your nick will autochange before the nickserv authentication. it's entirely broken, basically if you reg a, and a is already logged in, you get changed to a` and nickserv goes "why you giving me password, a` is not registered"
trinque: can keep that and ditch the nickserv auth
mircea_popescu: ah. yeah you would. i don't think they can maintain ircd loose network and have it do that.
phf: mircea_popescu: yeah, but then you have to write that logic into a bot. i was hoping that using login/password just kicks the previous account off
mircea_popescu: then change your name.
phf: trinque: nope, there's no free lunch. irc force changes the nick, before there's a chance to ghost
mircea_popescu: more importantly, if there's no assumption of machine register underlying, how exactly is it that they can always xor but only sometimes mod ?
asciilifeform: and feels the pain.
asciilifeform: the basic philosophy is to take the most dangerous knobs and attach broken glass spikes to them
phf: that was my impression since that's how my bouncer runs, and the only time i had issues is when my ssl cert silently expired. but come to think of it, i've not tested it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ada is a merciless thing. e.g., you cannot use two types interchangeably even if 'they're the same inside'; can only take pointers of items explicitly declared pointerable-to; by default, pointers only valid in the context where they were taken
trinque: and that'll just boot the previous instance of "deedbot" if I connect that way?
asciilifeform: ada is a civilized lang like commonlisp and there is NOT a presumption that integers are machine words !
mircea_popescu: which they don't make similarly unavailable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically they lazily decided "even" is to be tested by "mod", which is unacceptable if they're going to make mod randomly unavailable ; seeing how there are purely bit-logical ways to test for even-ness.
trinque: where I (think I'm) headed is the bot being a separate module. code using the bot would pass the appropriate generic function to call for commands into make-bot
mircea_popescu: EVEN is wrongly defined is the point.
mircea_popescu: "and, in addition, a call of a Boolean logical operator and, or, xor, not whose operands are such static predicate expressions, and, a static predicate expression in parentheses." << right there. a xor maxint-1 > 0
mircea_popescu: "So we see that the predicate in the subtype Even cannot be a static predicate because the operator mod is not permitted with the current instance. But mod could be used in an inner static expression."
mircea_popescu: which reminds me of my indignation in 9th grade. THERE ARE TWO COMPLEX CONJUGATES!!11
asciilifeform: what'd be the complex conjugate of l0l ?
phf: it's all bots sitting there unvoiced
a111: Logged on 2016-04-06 12:30 asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf i find myself agreeing with adlai, the way we have it now, the log is in fact near-unreadable EXCEPT in wwwtron. links oughta dump into the chan assbot-style
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446778 << i also agree, i just politely pointed out that the feature is obviously needed, i just don't trust bot part enough yet to put more functionality on it.
mircea_popescu: wasn't by any means a practical consideration. more of a "thinking about the compiler of the wetware future"
asciilifeform: as for 'why standard' - it affects the semantics.
mircea_popescu: i can't write sentences with a count at the end saying how many times you have to read them until you get them.
mircea_popescu: a more general and unrelated problem : why should the specific number of compiler passes be set down in the standard ?
mircea_popescu: seems altogether easier for you to not shit where you stand than for us to create a new reality.
phf: that's a platonist right there
asciilifeform: in that respect it has the same downside as eschewing microshit had in 1995.
asciilifeform: sane hardware has no downside other than it not yet existing.
mircea_popescu: now i understand why you expect the foundries to cost billionz! you're outsourcing!
mircea_popescu: "as long as these are securely fastened, an absolute guarantee to no pants shitting can be offered by manufacturer". and yes i used such thjings, but for very peculiar purposes.
asciilifeform: the butt plug has a down side.
mircea_popescu: listen : the EARTH permits you to do so.
asciilifeform: there is no excuse for buffer overflows to be a thing.
mircea_popescu: reasoning past the faith ?
asciilifeform: the basics ABSOLUTELY belong in hardware.
asciilifeform: we're still at the shit-where-you-stand level.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that it being unbounded, it can't really be hardware.
asciilifeform: we don't even HAVE the toilet yet.
mircea_popescu: and fwiw most arabs'd be horrified at the notion of not actually washing bunghole after defecation.
mircea_popescu: your idea of basic hygiene differs from the medieval french only in form, not in substance.
asciilifeform: as in, arrays live with their bounds
mircea_popescu: "all of the same checks, and more, in hardware". what now ? miner core in every cpu, to check for primality ?
mircea_popescu: the predicated types.
mircea_popescu: and yeah, i get the "doc it hurts when i do this" "so don't do it then" thing. but ...
mircea_popescu: but there's a point here. it's not a bounded problem!
asciilifeform: at least read the section about pointer leakage prevention
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> [...] you can declare a variable, where, say, assigning a prime number to it is an error condition in the runtime. which means, yes, a check on EVERY assignment. <<< now imagine the converse type :D
asciilifeform: incidentally, i recommend the 'random walk' article to anyone with even a passive interest in the subj
mircea_popescu: but might be the lowest fruit.
asciilifeform: phf: yes, but we haven't the factory.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, WHY is the compiler single pass ?
asciilifeform: and if you improve the thing, you break it.
asciilifeform: but there is also a STANDARD
asciilifeform: phf: there are some very obvious warts in the language - e.g., the compiler is one-pass and you end up having to write c-style prototypes for some functions.
mircea_popescu: would the world be better ?
mircea_popescu: there's no "better" in that space.
PeterL: aha, so if you ditch c-machine then you could do better?
asciilifeform: a properly constructed computer would perform ALL of the same checks, and more, IN HARDWARE
asciilifeform: PeterL: understand, ada is necessary because we are stuck with the idiot c machine.
asciilifeform: has, e.g., predicated types. (which means, you can declare a variable, where, say, assigning a prime number to it is an error condition in the runtime. which means, yes, a check on EVERY assignment.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wish it weren't the right thing...
mircea_popescu: and yes, the more i hear about ada the more i like it, or properly speaking the more it sounds like right thing.
mircea_popescu: so then why are you :)
mircea_popescu: and it is good that the good tools, derived from 1st, get some battle experience.
mircea_popescu: we'll be doing a lot of the 2nd willy-nilly.
asciilifeform: they are not part of what folks think of as 'software ecosystem'
mircea_popescu: consider what i'm actually saying : it's one thing to solve correctly a well defined problem ; it is another thing to solve well a nebulous one.
asciilifeform: they were 100% commonlisp (allegro) but never will be published or advertised.
asciilifeform: ada tasks, afaik, is the only sane implementation of parallelism where you ~never~ specify explicit thread
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is utterly besides the point, isn't it ? most well made statues were kept in temples, in the dark, untouched and unseen. this doesn't mean they had ergonomic spoons in mass production!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd like ada then
mircea_popescu: and srsly, what, it's my job to tell the processor how to process ? that's why it's a processor, let it process!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform were you gonna explain how the grocery thing relates ?
mircea_popescu: phf fwiw i believe "threads" are a miserable kludge, so i can see the angle.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is here committing the 'economics is what i see at the grocery counter' fallacy
mircea_popescu: brits had a very similar problem, "our tank is very well made" "how does it do in the sand ?" "WHAT?!?!?!"
mircea_popescu: without importing all the battlefield lulz on the topic : it is rather important for lisp to be used in ACTUAL applications, as opposed to conceptual.
phf: the web part is fine, but i want a bit more reliability out of a bot, maybe move it into a separate process even. this whole ascii's "does cmucl even has proper threads" is biting me in the ass
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446818 << phf tell you what, ima hold up changing trilema links until you're happy with it then. you say.
mircea_popescu: possibly might be an idea to eschew counting references to a log line made by the same author ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446775 << makes sense. hopefully the holders will be kind enough to get out of their positions amiably.
phf: the desire for old styling has been expressed and heard
asciilifeform: and the timestapmz
phf: oh that old old log is not there yet, and will probably go in within a month or so
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he doubtlessly failed to understand both his capabilities and his responsibilities, until later, as is usually the lot of people.
phf: right, because endpoint for the log is an iso8601 date
phf: so the way it used to address is /?date=06-04-2016, i think that should still happen when you hit /log/
mircea_popescu: you'll hafta excuse flurry of nonsense, trying&figuring out new clothes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the consacrated words being under the dragon. "i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage X.". with or without the banishment rider.
phf: it could, but i'd rather not have random durps hitting the domain and then hitting the logs until i'm certain of logs
phf: mircea_popescu: now that's just crazy talk, the behavior is identical to old log
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform once it became obvious they can gpu mine. that discovery.
asciilifeform still snarfing up the logz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you linked to the strippers whatever ?
mircea_popescu: so iirc the way this was solved before is, phf makes the page TITLE of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446757 read "phf: i was frankly surprised you managed to produce them manually" and then trinque makes deedbot fetch the TITLE of all pages and this solves reading loglines into chat.
mircea_popescu: human memory being obviously the most directly augmentable of all the high cognition functions.
mircea_popescu: i want it to be a flag in the search, so as to search IN IT.
mircea_popescu: phf: well, so far i've succeeded in breaking annotations phf: or maybe not phf: well, something's working anyway <<< bwahahaha check out the ada-lisper at work! :D
mircea_popescu: phf: incidentally there's a bug in ref counter, only finds one ref << thanks danielpbarron :D
mircea_popescu: "gentleman agreement" for the love of all that's slippery and wet.
mircea_popescu: phf: adlai: i'm half expecting bot to fall over at any second, you want it to spew log lines, you crazy, mang << no, seriously, this is a must. deedbot must say the logline when it sees the reference, there's no way about it, because seeing the line reminds me of the log directly, but clicking links etc is such a high bar...
mircea_popescu: adlai: asciilifeform: would you argue that satoshi should've switched PoW each time a new optimized (ie, gpu, fpga, etc) miner was released, at least, before he sepukkud? <<< whatever he'd argue, it is a fact that YES, satoshi should have been a man rather than an herb, and once he knew things blew up should have called forth the dragon.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf i find myself agreeing with adlai, the way we have it now, the log is in fact near-unreadable EXCEPT in wwwtron. links oughta dump into the chan assbot-style
gribble: The operation succeeded.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-04#1445594 <<< what i was thinking is "offer wires as an alternative to a cash settlement to people who presently hold x.eur and to whom i've committed to delivering upon request", and then close it, at least until i have another professionnal setup to handle it properly
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-19#983318 << The damnation of the guilty is of severe importance
BingoBoingo: No, you've lessened the damning!
phf: i was frankly surprised you managed to produce them manually
phf: incidentally there's a bug in ref counter, only finds one ref
asciilifeform: the idiocy is of interest strictly to archaeologists.
adlai: asciilifeform: not quite, iirc he wailed and gnashed teeth at the ungentlemanly conduct of ArtForz.
asciilifeform: (incidentally, the node/mine dichotomy is an excellent illustration of the 'protocol vs promise' principle. in that initially, they were one and the same - cpu miner was enabled. but this was 'promise' in the sense that nothing kept the two tethered together)
asciilifeform: so in other 'news', somewhere b/w 1/3 to 1/2 of ~all~ public nodez are ~admitted~ sybils at this point.
adlai: in other news, http://www.learnmorsecode.com/pix/learn.gif is what i didn't even know i needed.
adlai: recursing into inner links, across the log.b-a.chasm, left as an exercise to the industrious lisper
asciilifeform: imho it would be optimal for the thing to spew old-style assbot spew, aha
adlai: this is what assbot did back in the good ol' days.
asciilifeform: adlai: click the arrow
asciilifeform: adlai: there is a proper log now
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-03-2016#1436476 << yes, yes, etc. the awakeness knob goes to 11!
adlai: it's the other way around. haven't you ever realized everybody around you is communicating in front of your face in a language you can't parse?
adlai: 'fits in head' has another interpretation.
mircea_popescu: adlai ie, two brailles, like they did a braille-ext or some shit
mod6: hell, sat there and talk to her for a good while, had no clue.
adlai doesn't understand what mircea_popescu means by "there's two". is this like "another skywalker"?
mircea_popescu: she did learn braille originally ; never used it much past the 90s. also of course there's two.
adlai loves the ads for SPOJ claiming "learn how to code" in a site that lets people who know math compete in who knows more math
asciilifeform: (by author of the 'random walk in ada' article.)
asciilifeform: in other not-quite-news, http://ideone.com/a1ky4l << ada mandelbrot generator, safely threaded, ~170 lines.
asciilifeform: unless you're actually mathematicizing, you prolly don't need a b00k re dfa...
mod6: while im rounding out the lib, any mega-b00k reccos on DFA?
asciilifeform: try the actual escaped hex
asciilifeform: (who wants these slavez?)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-05#1446423 << i read it as 'here be dragonz' re the continuing but no longer tmsrtronic old logz
mircea_popescu: anyone know how the fuck do i wipe dos blank lines in cli ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 salt pickles are really fermented, not vinegared. they preserve because the lactobacillum keeps other bugs out
asciilifeform: y'know, back in the good ol' dayz
mod6: "salt pickles like your great grandmother used to make..." yeah, i'd bet i've never even had one.
mircea_popescu: (for the curious, the sauce of that lolz http://trilema.com/2013/i-was-right-you-were-wrong-again-feel-the-burn/#selection-323.1-272.53 )
deedbot: $s "and the boys mircea mircea after me" is not a command.
mircea_popescu: $s "and the boys mircea mircea after me"
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/the-broad-and-the-million-fireants-a-parable/ << lol check out the antique, from back when ben_vulpes was benkay
mircea_popescu fucking hates the vinegar bs.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah proper pickles are a must. but the salt kind
mod6: this year im goin hard on the cucumbers, so i can pickle the fuckers and make even better sandwiches.
phf: Had to connect from phone to address this one, searching "from:something" greps for that exact string, rather than semantic messages "from" "something". So only finds 100 or so messages with "from:mircea" in them
ben_vulpes: how do i /use/ the new search
mircea_popescu: what in the ever loving fuck, i'm going to call someone to MAKE ME A FUCKING SANDWICH ?!
mod6: did we find a bundle of the old logs?