davout: but i guess i'd have to double check against the actual data i have in the DB, might as well go and find the information there directly
mircea_popescu: since no further accepted after ?
davout: no scratch that, the number of 'accepted bets' as reported in the february statement would do
davout: i can simply compare the minimum bet timestamp for each proposal with februart fouth
mircea_popescu: the use of to is confusing, but okies!
davout: anything bet seeding that came after the january report should be accounted as a liability to you
davout: previous reports state house bets as an expense, this expense is in turn deducted from revenue and reduces the distributed profits to shareholders
mircea_popescu: davout> thing is i can't simply do 0.1 btc * number of outstanding bets because some of the house bets expenses have *already* been accounted against the shareholders << how and where ?
davout: in other words, yes, you have been floating this expense, but only until it was settled in a monthly report by deducting it from the profits you distributed to shareholders
davout: so basically my point is that while i'm ok to add a bitbet liability to you for every bet that was seeded after the january report, every house bet that came before that was already paid for by the shareholders
davout: and just because the liabilities amount is reduced by the payments that are made back to the house does not imply the converse is true for house bets, as the 'house bet' expense has no particular reason to be accounted for in the same month the 'house bet winnings' are accounted for
davout: thing is i can't simply do 0.1 btc * number of outstanding bets because some of the house bets expenses have *already* been accounted against the shareholders
davout: working on this 'add a house bets item on the liabilities side'
trinque: I bet he loves the iPad
trinque: felipelalli: if the deedbot- one is gone, that'll mean use $deed <deed-url> after that
felipelalli: (the wrong header)
trinque: I've yet to go back and make all the queries case insensitive
trinque: TomServo: yeah it did; you were just in there as lowercase
trinque: ah I didn't release that code yet then
mircea_popescu: jose de san martin (prolly my favourite south american) discussing the despotism of de rosas.
mircea_popescu: in other unrelated historical bits,
felipelalli: Can I keep hammering the deedbot?
asciilifeform: but i did wonder what felipelalli was trying to accomplish by deedbotting a transaction with a fella having no mathematical identity.
felipelalli: this contract is fine to him (my counterpart "Rhama Bonitao"). I do not run any risk because I get him service first. So, the worst scenario is if I do not pay him, and he has a concrete proof that I promised to pay him. It works, I did it many times before.
mircea_popescu: well if you happen to read portuguese it is obvious from the deed he does so grasp it, i thought.
asciilifeform: but it doesn't hurt to point out - once - that what the fella is holding is indeed his balls, and with other hand - hammer, nail.
mircea_popescu: your job is merely to make sure the bal peen hammer is exceptionally ball peeny.
asciilifeform: only to the extent i see a problem with a bloke nailing his balls to a wall with a ball peen hammer.
asciilifeform: picture 'i, 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7, hereby proclaim that i owe a quintillion zimbabwellars to the man in the grey coat!'
asciilifeform: but you don't publicly swear oaths to anon chix id'd by their stage namez
mircea_popescu: i sleep with women without giving them fingerprint tests!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform inasmuch as the deal doesn't concern you, what "our" planet ?
mircea_popescu: the expression tho, "belongs to X who unfortunately is outside the walls" is pretty great.
asciilifeform: also am i the only one who doesn't grasp the point of deedbotting dealings outside wot, with randos ...
mircea_popescu: ah ah. felipelalli will have to wait a little - trinque was updating the two bots to merge into one.
asciilifeform: 'BENEFITS GIVEN TO NEW MEMBERS WHO JOIN ILLUMINATI. 1. A Cash Reward of USD $500,000 USD 2. A New Sleek Dream CAR...' << i find the ustard leper's bell ringing here
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other "solutions to x86 problems and assorted lulz" news, http://trilema.com/2015/facebook-sends-traffic11eleven/#comment-117016
asciilifeform: as motherfucking HOMEWORK.
asciilifeform: 'I ported a USB driver, a network driver, an SD card reader and a low-level driver for the Pi's VideoCore IV GPU. '
asciilifeform: 'I developed a version of Interim (then called "Bomberjacket OS") that boots on a standard Intel x86 PC as well as a version that runs on the ARM-based Raspberry Pi low-cost computer. '
asciilifeform: understand, DESCRIPTIONS of the problem of complexity cancer ~abound~.
sbp: must dash for a bit—in case I lack the +v upon my return, it has been a pleasure. thanks for the chat
sbp: it's the most Loper-like thing I have seen outside of Loper
sbp: right where the number is
sbp: potentially. but Emily Dickinson locked her poems into a drawer, and they only got out again by chance
mircea_popescu: hm. we could then correctly say your real life hasn't begun yet ?
sbp: none of that on the web, thank goodness
mircea_popescu: no, not utterly trivial shite. the stuff that you are proud of and pointedly accept as the superset of your capacity and abilities.
sbp: the history, or the programming? https://github.com/sbp/ contains some of my utterly trivial shite
mircea_popescu: so other than waiting generations, we and so forth, what is it you do ?
sbp: maybe we have to wait another generation or two before we can fab chips at home
asciilifeform: sbp: at present time, not only do you not know what is in the package, but the build chain is several dozen GB of closed x86 turd.
asciilifeform: sbp ^ there ARE NO FPGA
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: i'ma have to link to the old logz,
asciilifeform: (ussr made perfectly serviceable pdp clones without understanding a whit of how the thing worked)
sbp: yeah, even if you took a batch and decapped all of them but one, I suppose you wouldn't know for sure that that wasn't the exploited one. I don't know if it's possible to make a chip that you can audit before it's running
asciilifeform: realize that copying a chip mask is a vanishing fraction of the cost of baking an ic
asciilifeform: if it means that, given a $B another fella can attempt to replicate, this does not mean much.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fexprs incur no penalty or otherwise problem in an interpreted lang, or, for that matter, a proper lispm
sbp: Wand and Shutt kept arguing about whether Shutt's expansion even worked, and I don't know the outcome of that. but let's say that Kernel (Shutt's language) does work—it's syntactically somewhat unwieldy. typing the fexprs to the arguments is very clean and easy to follow
mircea_popescu: or what exactly is the purpose here, i dun rightly follow.
sbp: well, that is intended to be the compiler target of course. but I haven't finished that yet
sbp: nope, I started working on the bytecode stuff straight after that
sbp: I saw something recently where they gave people a belt, and it buzzed in whichever direction was north, to give them haptic feedback as to cardinal directions. they seemed moderately annoyed to indifferent about the belt when wearing it, I recall
sbp: after the spin he still knew which direction was which. quite incredible
sbp: they did an experiment once where they took a member of the tribe and flipped him around really fast
sbp: (the "Australian Aboriginal people the Guugu Yimithirr have no words denoting the egocentric directions in their language; instead, they exclusively refer to cardinal directions")
sbp: if I were a member of the Guugu Yimithirr I could perform such cardinal sins more easily
sbp: ah, where's the fun in that
mircea_popescu: sbp the cardinal sin of writing is to not know why you chose a style.
sbp: I don't know why I wrote it in the style of a Klondike gold prospector era huckster salesman
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform however the reverend of nyssa's mockery is quite on point you know :D
asciilifeform: all i saw was a buncha-'vexual'-style salad and a link to a very trivial proggy that de-enumerates the bits.
sbp: oh, the spoilers refer to having solved the challenge set in the post. spoilers in the sense of spoiling the end of a movie
sbp: the code was trivial, but I decided to show it to asciilifeform to avoid duplication of effort
asciilifeform: the claim of 'this key has fewer bits but more secure than rsa' is esp. galling, because there is NO PROOF of it available in the open literature
sbp: I know he just meant alert reader generally, but he did a previous post where one of our chatlogs was titled "the alert reader", and so I decided to take up the challenge anyway because I was curious as to what the encodings were—I wanted to understand how the seals were intended to be used
mircea_popescu: sbp> why not of ecc? <<< it's in the logs! but in summary : direct equivalent of the obscurantist practice of "whitening" except with math rather than rngs.
sbp: asciilifeform issued a little trivial challenge in the post, directed to the "alert reader", to decode the seal examples that he gives from his single byte encodings into human readable form
sbp: tried it in private to avoid spamming the channel, but I still get failed import
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't know the fella at all, but he appears to read my www, that's all i know.
mircea_popescu: sbp try using dpaste.com rather than .de see ?
phf: maybe if i wrote it in ada, it'd be boing 747 on the first try
phf: i would like to point out, that the log has been operational for whole two weeks, it's not quite up to standard of the incrementally constructed, 3 year tested, former b-a
phf: there's an unrelated heisenbug, that i'm failing to fix, hold tight
mircea_popescu: do not take the bot name in vane!
phf: there's normally a max half hour with no restarts delay between
phf: nope, three days ago was the last one
phf: asciilifeform: there's nothing wrong with deliberate don't reconnect, twice that happened and nobody cared or noticed
mircea_popescu: sbp for my curiosity, you familiar with the state of republican debate on items such as utf and ascii generally ?
mircea_popescu: and holy shit is life impossible without the log. phf when's it 2pm already omaygerd.
sbp: I was perhaps disingenuous about ascii being the pertinent item. after all, as I say, I could do lexical scope without the ascii representation
asciilifeform: (i do not own any of the ancient and unobtainable xerox lispm iron)
sbp: asciilifeform: how did you find SEdit? I have only spoken to one friend who used the Interlisp-D machine, and I don't think he said anything about SEdit
asciilifeform: and the hp48 lisp
asciilifeform: sbp: i've played with the xerox structure editor
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> 'look we did our j0b!111 check box in 3ring today' << seems altogether likely, this.
sbp: Wand's theory, and all the other pissing against fexprs from Pitman onwards, is based on the untyped lambda calculus. naturally. and lisp is untyped in this sense; the types come at runtime
sbp: yeah, well the answer to that is in itself trivial. a child could have come up with it
sbp: you remember that Mitchell Wand proved that the theory of fexprs is trivial? i.e. that fexprs cannot actually be compiled, and they must therefore be runtime components
sbp: I mean I figured out how to make them compilable
sbp: when you look at lambda calculus, you get most lacklustre computer scientists talking about alpha-renaming and all this stupid shit that gets in the way, but when you use de Bruijn notation that stuff disappears entirely. it's an epiphenomenon, one of Ptolemy's epicycles
sbp: this was all made a lot easier by using de Bruijn notation internally for variables by the way
sbp: I'm not sure I care awfully about the runtime constraint. ("two speeds" of a computer and all that)
sbp: the drawback is that because you depend on execution frames (or whatever) for the data, which is what allows the use of dynamic scope of course, this has to be done at runtime. lexical scope would usually be computed at compile time
sbp: what I realised was that when you couple scope to s-expressions in this way, it essentially becomes a system of runtime assertions in which you can model not only lexical AND dynamic scope—by choice!—but other kinds of hitherto unexplored scopes too
sbp: so I spent some time thinking about how scoping would work if *lexical* scope were bound to s-expressions and not the ascii representations of programs. because when you think about it, that's all that lexical scope is: it's an artefact of ascii representation, and I thought that perhaps this was not the lispy way
sbp: well SEdit allowed the editorial process, that protean forge, to work in like direct manner
sbp: the idea was that you edited the cons cells directly. there was no intermediate ascii representation. in other words, there was no byte array buffer on which the editor acted; the editor acted directly on the s-expressions in the machine
sbp: there isn't much about it on the web now. I think I found a single PDF describing it in detail!
sbp: also, I don't know if you remember, but the Interlisp-D machine had a program called SEdit
sbp: but this got me thinking about Lisp bytecode, and whether the best bytecode for Lisp might be Forth, in essence
sbp: well, it was reverse polish at least, not that this is the most interesting feature of Forth
sbp: have you heard of Reverse Polish Lisp? it was a language for the HP-48 I think from 1987. the idea was that it was meant to combine some of the features of lisp, the high level stuff (as high level as they could squeeze into a late 1980s calculator) and the low level Mooreishness of Forth
asciilifeform: sbp: this sounds more interesting. care to discuss the 'various systems' ?
sbp: the experimentation continues
asciilifeform: sbp: the only unforgiveable offense is tedium. what did you call in to ~say~ ? trivial py proggy ?
sbp: long time listener, second time caller, as they say
asciilifeform: sbp: did i miss the introduction ? who are you ?
sbp: I may have to endure citizenship just to save you from the ignominy of periodic bot commands
shinohai: The usg gave phuctor an overdose of Ambien
sbp: the joke that most historians neglect to mention is that it didn't apply to slaves
sbp: trinque: you recall the redistribution of land by Lycurgus of Lacedaemon?
sbp: asciilifeform: is Phuctor permadead? (the worst kind of dead)
phf: so either cmucl or i have finally gone mad. (setq *connection* (irc-connect)) few lines later (error "~a" *connection*). error comes back as "NIL"
sbp: I'll forbear my Roman name for now, but perhaps the invocations will come to my fingers sooner or later
sbp: I apologise for not having a PGP presence, the baseline of citizenship
sbp: Nelson mentions that computer is a misnomer, and quoted Von Neumann as calling them all-purpose machines. I tracked that down potentially to https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rdm34/burks.pdf
sbp: ("Max Allen and Ted Nelson discuss the future of computers (1979)")
asciilifeform: sbp: i recommend drinking less - srsly, it worked for some of the folks here...
sbp: here is some more joy from the Times That People [CD]are Not To Recall:
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: trinque: same place as the lag on my trb nodez
trinque: box was at like 16% cpu at the time
asciilifeform: Apr 14 13:09:53 <trinque>what, you don't think the best and brightest work at the NSA, I mean the subcontractor for the NSA, I mean the sub-sub... << my current understanding is that 'best and brightest' don't actually work anywhere, they sit in arkakao and eat ice cream with mircea_popescu et al
trinque wonders where the mega-lag is coming from
asciilifeform: trinque: last night i learned that they have... ~women~ at nsa !
trinque: what, you don't think the best and brightest work at the NSA, I mean the subcontractor for the NSA, I mean the sub-sub...
asciilifeform: now perhaps i drank too much mircea_popescutroinium with breakfast today, but now i wonder how often the point of such a port scan is ~the scan per se~ rather than actual logical result thereof.
trinque: we've got the A team on us, eh?
asciilifeform: not the ordinary 10x/daily 'root/toor' crapolade from cn
asciilifeform: TomServo: merely that someone took the time to actually try services on nonstandard ports, and the bruteforce dict appeared to consist of realistic-looking pws (presumably leaked somewhere or other)
TomServo: Thanks, just curious what was original or interesting with the probe you mention?
asciilifeform: (message to proberz : probe that is visible to the motherfucking naked eye , regardless of how otherwise original, is an insult to the intelligence of a shoe)
asciilifeform: ftr a number of my boxes were subjected to rather elaborate probing today.
asciilifeform: openssl was quite consciously ~built~ with the goal of hosting these verminiferous ulcers where server can flip a bit and create a new path through client code that allows the planets to align just-so and... etc
mircea_popescu: phf kinda curious how you'll solve the various byzantine problems of a multibot setup.
asciilifeform: i mention it now because, as far as i can tell, the error trinque's bot dies with is a result of undocumented and peculiar misprotocoling on server side.
asciilifeform: now the way this kind of monkey trick works is that 'outrageous' draft law in usa is built so as to push 'overton window' and make otherwise plain lunacy appear 'reasonable'.
asciilifeform: '...would require people to comply with any authorized court order for data—and if that data is “unintelligible,” the legislation would demand that it be rendered “intelligible.”'
asciilifeform: presumably the only ssltronic link is b/w fleanode and deedbot ?
asciilifeform: (i don't recall seeing any ssltronics in the src that was linked here)
asciilifeform: trinque: i find the ssl barfs interesting, where precisely do they come from in your thing ?
phf: i.e. n-bots connect and reconcile with each other before submitting shared answer to logotron. if i spread them across fleenode servers should account even for splits
phf: yeah, but the bot explicitly doesn't reconnect, because i don't want to lose messages and introduce continuity break. perhaps i should just do that as a "good enough" measure, but i want to just write a communicating-multi-bot setup over the weekend
shinohai: I think I sent you the copy w/out source BingoBoingo sorry. Was early before I had sufficient coffee.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> and in yet more lulz, whoa BingoBoingo can you fucking believe the commenter interest in changetip ?! mindboggling. << Seriously.
asciilifeform brb, losing other battalion
asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu as the hruschev in film 'enemy at the gates' - 'you lost battalion, motherfuckers!? lose the other one! or lose yourself!'
mircea_popescu: im sending you your walking papers if you're going to insist playing the idiot, how about that ?
mircea_popescu: i think for some reason you got the idea that if mp gets phuctor server it's ok to come in, redefine it as "trb node" and move on.
asciilifeform: while it remains true that this is not why mircea_popescu bought it, this is certainly far from 'usg capitalization' bottom of the ocean.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> including five straight months of 1/4 gb ram box at close to a btc/month pulling our dicks. << that thing incidentally has been the ONLY public trb node that has never fallen down. not once.
davout: you have a point, i'll update the report accordingly
mircea_popescu: (i imagine you took out the house bet proceeds from liabilities because kakobrekla whined. characteristically for the "partnership" mentality, he forgot to mention this other part.)
mircea_popescu: so : it's true that i don't have to keep the proceeds. it is not however true they're free money.
mircea_popescu: these 0.1 btc came out of my own pocket, as a credit towards bitbet, that now has to be unwound.
mircea_popescu: that is entirely besides the point. for every bet currently open, the "house" put in 0.1 btc.
davout: http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#selection-101.0-101.28
mircea_popescu: how exactly were they already accounted for ?
mircea_popescu: my idea is that while it's true that the proceeds from house bets shouldn't be counted against the shareholders - it is at the same time the actual sum of those bets as made should count as a credit for me.
mircea_popescu: alrighty, this is then the correct figure, pending the house bets issue which afaik is the last item.
mircea_popescu: and there we go, matches.
davout: so that's basically, the sum of bets, the donations, the unhandled zeroconf proposal, minus the hot wallet i already have in hand
mircea_popescu: so right right, that's the right number then, 199.45047737, ie owed bets + refunds - hw.
mircea_popescu: oh oh, the house bets yes.
davout: you need to take 335.04334737, the amount before fees
mircea_popescu: now why the fuck doesn't this match that ;/
davout: see, this includes the hot wallet already ^
mircea_popescu: i see no value in using either 1040 or 841 value of unknown provenance.
davout: you substracted the hot wallet amount from this, but it's already taken into account in the 841.33337474
mircea_popescu: davout meanwhile, accounting points out another snag. specifically, while it's correct that the proceeds of house bets go to shareholders ; it's incorrect that the bets themselves come out of thin air. the bitbet house bets were not a personal gift of mp to the bitbet shareholders, they were an expense undertook by said shareholders, which i generously (and perhaps ineptly) floated for them. so should be on liability side.
davout: from this we remove the 50 for mpex shareholders
davout: mircea_popescu: re your comments, you took the previous hw numbers (i made a small mistake in accounting its amount)
davout: looks like the web log is not up to date
ben_vulpes: the rare deadline about which i give a shit
mircea_popescu: anyway ; marissa o'hare was a party girl 15-20 years ago. always lulzy to see gals still clinging on to their "29" pix.
ben_vulpes: lol and lindsay anderson doesn't even give enough of a shit to put up anything other than a party pic
ben_vulpes idly browses faces on their website, looking for this 'shoulda'
mircea_popescu: (wenner media, rolling stone magazine publisher, they used to sort-of matter in 1982.)
mircea_popescu: didja know wiener media is a thing ? hired some chick that shoulda been a stripper to "senior director of something or the other"
mircea_popescu: i've been chuckling and smirking all morning ; their treat.
mircea_popescu: they have a page with obscure executivs from anodyne shitshows providing social proof. CAREER, hombre.
mircea_popescu: they're hiring, dawg.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: the url shortener? 24/7?
shinohai: :Unlike the competition, we can gyarantee 81.3% uptime at a minimum"
mircea_popescu: and in yet more lulz, whoa BingoBoingo can you fucking believe the commenter interest in changetip ?! mindboggling.
mircea_popescu: not far away is the day "guarantee 80% uptime" will be an actual sales point.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, this bitly thing is out of the www fantasy lmao. " 24/7 Security Were looking out for you. We have a dedicated IT team monitoring your account 24/7 and guaranteed 99% uptime. Were always on the lookout, so you dont have to be."
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: davout but speaking of which cent, you're not seriously going to make all the payments in one single txn are you ? who knows what other unworking bit of the unspecified protocol that "everyone knows" in retrospect but only after it happens we'll end up discovering.
mircea_popescu: davout doing the shareholder math only for verification, it comes out they should receive 86 BTC from auction - 13.37 your fee + 3.35043347 (1% of 335.04334737 winnings ) + 1.21 (donations) + 2.82314231 (house above) which then with the tx fees comes out right.
mircea_popescu: davout ok, so going through third report : as to note 2-3, so you took out 2.15+0.67314231 = 2.82314231 out of liabilities seeing how the house needn't pay itself, i reckon ? this makes sense.
mircea_popescu: at this rate the us army capital utilization efficiency can't be far behind.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
davout: ;;later tell trinque deedbot still chokes on trailing whitespace in OTPs, and from what i see the OTP comes with this trailing space when decrypted
punkman: at least half of them commited seppuku
punkman: and hope you can put together a kernel that works with your shit
asciilifeform: but perhaps one day i will visit mod6 and ben_vulpes and they might teach me to correctly dismember a boar into sausages.
mod6: its a lost skill up here for the most part.
mircea_popescu: and you know, boar weighs about the same as a large number of sacks of potatoes
mircea_popescu: they both have wet noses.
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=UTI | Top Definition. UTI. A painful infection in your bladder where you feel like you have to pee all the time and when you do go to pee barely anything comes out.
BingoBoingo: when alf starts foley catheter