gabriel_laddel: How is the sober life?
trinque: it's an opportunity for him to challenge the negative biases within himself and become a more open person
gabriel_laddel: cute girl with a "recreational mathematics" shirt on right next to me. it's not so bad.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel had better not be in a motherfucking asylum
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you oughta have been here for the ' mircea_popescu arguing that there is no such thing as peformance dope ' thread the other day
trinque: start habits that make it otherwise!
trinque: or at least the code you want
gabriel_laddel: along with all the docs etc
gabriel_laddel: Generate a RescueCD that rebuilds masamune using all the sources on disk
gabriel_laddel: untangled the only gnarly bit of the masamune replication and promptly cooked my computer's hard drive
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who wrote the above ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> how do they manage to stay mentally 12 ?! seriously now. << By continuing to surround themselve exclusively with sick people.
mircea_popescu: how do they manage to stay mentally 12 ?! seriously now.
mircea_popescu: and accepted his offer to hint to a guy I like that this is the case; I hit on someone at a party right in front of my primary. I haven't suffered a hiccup of drama or a twinge of jealousy to speak of and all evidence (including verbal confirmation) indicates that I've been managing my primary's feelings satisfactorily too.</bragging> Does this sort of thing appeal to you? Cross your fingers and hope your brain works enoug
mircea_popescu: "Everything went according to plan: I can now comfortably describe myself and the primary relationship I have with MBlume as poly. <bragging>Since moving back to the Bay Area I've been out with four other people too, one of whom he's also seeing; I've been in my primary's presence while he kissed one girl, and when he asked another for her phone number; I've gossiped with a secondary about other persons of romantic interest
mircea_popescu: it was a very entertaining few years, i definitely recommend the study of "fratire" to the entomologist.
mircea_popescu: aww, you missed such a nice pile of anecdotes. so this guy, on the basis of a web forum populated by anglo dorks, and with the help of a "strategist" whose name escapes me atm but whose badly shaped cranium i still recall, were going to "revolutionize" and shit.
mircea_popescu: you know, the fiction genius.
mircea_popescu: "Mike Blume, gadabout and preterist, has grown bolder and bolder against Apostolic holiness traditions which he calls legalism. He has denied several of our ..." apparently the other priest dudes don't think so much of him.
mircea_popescu: "Empirically the most attractive man in our community including for purposes of casual sex is Mike Blume, who (Ive asked a woman or two) achieves this by being extremely polite, reliable, and generating a feeling of being very safe to be around or date (contrary to a number of people whod allege that this is beta-male behavior who Im beginning to suspect are just sheerly empirically wrong)." << ahahaha win. che
mircea_popescu: "one of the public whores (free as in beer) that i'm sometimes pumping was working some chump and this bothered me maybe" ?
mircea_popescu: "I once felt a small pang of jealousy when one of my girlfriends was having a very public display of affection with a non-Mike person I didnt know quite so well. But I get upset with/jealous of public displays of affection in general, even among people I dont know, and its very hard for me to disentangle this feeling from jealousy and it could have just been my imagination." << or otherwise, could start by defining "
mircea_popescu: "They both go way out of their way to make the other happy, and although part of this is just that theyre both very nice people who go out of their way to make everybody happy, I think theres got to be some love involved there too. They are engaged, working on the getting married thing, and have every intention of having lots of children and staying together for at least one lifetime." << california can't grow eno
mircea_popescu: if your idea of a fight is for the submissive to blather off, then o my fucking god what shambling abomnation is this!
mircea_popescu: if your idea of "a fight" is one screaming his head off and the other begging forgiveness on knees and kowtows, then "no fights" is a completely dead relatopnship where no instruction is taking place ;
asciilifeform: others - ships. etc
mircea_popescu: "I have lived with them for seven months now and never once have I seen them get in a fight (I know there is way more to being a couple than not fighting but Im trying to think of objective numerical evidence I can report here beyond if you know them, you know what I mean)." << it's a miserable fucking criteria wtf.
asciilifeform: esp if they are 'inpatient' and share infrastructure.
mircea_popescu: ah there is that. harem reproduces, just like "monogamous fambly".
trinque: and something that probably kicks on in her when there's wealth.
mircea_popescu: you ever read asylum in the end ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand, a major part of the appeal of prostitutes for many people is that they already have a pimp. contrary to what polite society likes to believe, men don't generally want THAT much to do with women.
mircea_popescu: lulz what the fuck am i reading.
trinque: says he only dates women dating other men
asciilifeform: this is where i say that i have absolutely nfi. was only conjecturing as to why the 'ring of popescuinity' has not melted his flesh from radiation damage.
mircea_popescu: what, his mother handles his harematic affairs, as per abdul hamid ?
asciilifeform: the difference that the death he was supposed to die as per mircea_popescu's observation is forestalled.
asciilifeform: the infrastructural work of keeping weevils out of the stash is, presumably, handled by his master.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is probably still thinking of yudkowsky as a rich man, even if in the lottery sense. but he is actually, in effect, an employee - simply a very highly-compensated one
mircea_popescu: harem heals ; and what that means if it's dead rather than alive ... god only help you.
asciilifeform: most commonly, 'helpful' folks will come straight up out of the earth itself to 'help' mr. rich spend 'his' moneys.
asciilifeform: and as per the 'money and power, car and petrol' thread
mircea_popescu: he who steps outside of their braindead protection will encounter great power ; which, without control, will ruin their life ; in such catastrophically major ways as to defy plain description.
mircea_popescu: ok, let's try a general statement. the trite rules of common sensical behaviour exist principally not because they're good or useful or productive ; but because they are banal, and in being banal are safe.
mircea_popescu: you ever read bitter moon, say ? or i guess saw the movie, which was terrible, but i suppose still carries ?
mircea_popescu: this is precisely how you end up with whores in the matress.
mircea_popescu: if it isn't... hm. you saying basically they only visit with performance gas mask on ?
asciilifeform: so then.
asciilifeform: who wrecked their empire.
asciilifeform: tell this to the lunatic sultans.
mircea_popescu: much like the "bitcoin corrupts" argument - harem heals. if you actually get one, you can't be "yourself".
asciilifeform: ustards specialize in exploring the borderland between life and putrescent soup.
mircea_popescu: no such thing ; the dead mechanism either rots and stinks ; or else exactly immitates life - so much so as to be actually alive ; and if actually alive - it heals.
asciilifeform: as with mr mold, yudkowsky 'cheated' by being a rather good librarian
asciilifeform: nothing so strange. somewhat rhetorically-savvy fella, gathers a buncha sillycon valley types, and convinces them that (in their words) 'smartest human who ever lived.' money rains in, chix put out, etc.
asciilifeform: maybe if derp finds The Ring of Popescuinity in the mud, and cleans it up, and wields some of its powers, he still isn't mircea_popescu ?
mircea_popescu: how does one sit atop the pile of chicks and still derp ineptly ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: either yes or very elaborate ruse, including some folks who dun like him no moar participating.
gabriel_laddel: harry potter and the methods of rationality?
asciilifeform: anyway he successfully distilled the most hardcore folks from his original cult into a new thing, is moar funded than ever before, as far as i can tell, and is happily fellating thiel with renewed vigour.
mircea_popescu: where the fuck was that thing anyway.
mircea_popescu: then why's he going around asking for it.
mircea_popescu: da fuck, how dares he not humbly suck cock when the world condescends to slap him silly.
mircea_popescu: why ? twerp is writing fiction "didactically" and "challenges" the world.
mircea_popescu: rather low ever since i taught him how to write and he... failed to engage.
asciilifeform: ^ described in agonizing detail therein, iirc
mircea_popescu: and for no fault of their own ?!
asciilifeform: yudkowsky successfully bootstrapped his inner cult to the next level, of being a properly institutionalized and usgized org, and he didn't need the public www any moar.
mircea_popescu: that's a new one, i didn't know any other cause is even possibru. wha happened ?
asciilifeform: the opposite.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-07 18:21 gabriel_laddel: The lesswrong people I've run into out the bay area all tacked on idiocies like "if someone had a really good betting run, then you would pay them to make decisions for you regarding your own life"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-07#1478082 << if you run into any more make them read http://trilema.com/2016/multivariate-calculus-for-experts/
asciilifeform: but i actually have nfi if that particular chumpatron is still rollin'. all i ever knew of it was from the mr mold film linked earlier.
asciilifeform: like any good organized fraud, the futarchy folks consist of a few conscious sc4mz0rz who know exactly what they're doing, and a buncha useful idiots.
mircea_popescu: buncha fuctards, can't speak in public, opine as to consummate public speaker's performance ; never as much as owned a suit of clothes, comment the suits of dude that's been wearing one since highschool. on it goes.
mircea_popescu: yes. i'd study them to get better.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would it make much difference if there could ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-07#1478065 <<< one of the funniest things to me re webtard community was that they read enough trilema to find ancient political meeting videos and hurr durr critically at my performance.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-05 14:09 asciilifeform: fella wasn't quite certain what he wanted, and soon after the publication, devil approached him with bargain.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I use the CLX native backend and will be moving to framebuffer when it makes economic sense.
asciilifeform: why does clim have to use any of the native gui widgets ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: one step at a time. I cut out all the "backends" and got the LoC count to 100,803 lines of CL.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: didja see your quote on the new McCLIM site?
asciilifeform: trinque: nobody was looking for stalin. instead it was 'capitalist' spray paint on the old popular vote nonsense.
trinque: oh, we will find our stalin and then follow him
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: have you sailed across the river to montevideo yet?
trinque: gabriel_laddel: whole thing is fucked as soon as the cultural notions of born slaves enters the process
asciilifeform: the 'futarchy' folks were trying to give ye olde demoooooocracy a new spray paint coat.
trinque: soon as someone does something that works some other idiot comes along and wants to make a religion and government out of it
gabriel_laddel: The lesswrong people I've run into out the bay area all tacked on idiocies like "if someone had a really good betting run, then you would pay them to make decisions for you regarding your own life"
trinque: and losers lost capital which diminished their ability to take part
gabriel_laddel: under the name of "prediction market"
trinque: what, everyone has the same amount of capital?
asciilifeform: and the man is very clearly not camera-ready.
trinque: jesus christ, the "umm"s coming out of this guy
asciilifeform: ^ mr mold, apart from the 1,001 other atrocious design decisions, added cherry to the shitcake by making his 'coins' have 9 lives.
a111: Logged on 2015-08-04 21:35 ascii_field: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/urbit-dev/qgxfZ-I-nJ4/q6mKVUA7b1oJ << obligatory, the mega-flamefest that followed
asciilifeform: ^^ -----> say hello to new ethercrapcoin
mod6: gotta add one last part before we can really use it in here; get it a pgp key, register it with deedbot, then build in functions to selfvoice
mod6: worked through the test plan after 2 small fixes, seems to be working as designed.
mircea_popescu: so get the line number.
phf: but then i was thinking that i can periodically poll all the sources since_id=<last id for the source> and check things for consistency, etc.
phf: maybe the id can be optional, but fwiw it doesn't need to match what the btcbase has. as long as it's unique and incremental on your system. the main usecase is that if the bot drops, for the duration of reconnect logger wants to know what happened on channel. so can do since_time=<+-10 minutes around drop time> and then fuzzy shuffle messages in
mod6: but the rest I can do, and I won't be logging messages as this thing will drop pms.
asciilifeform: fact is, a good chunk of the traffic on dulap 80 is from traditional bots who loudly proclaim themselves.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's just how the bot is written to work.
asciilifeform: even google has the pretty much whole surface-visible structure indexed now.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-07 01:02 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475379 << best api would be kako log format "<whatever incremental id your message has>;<unix timestamp>;<nick>;<message>" and "<id>;<timestamp>;*;<nick> <message>" for /me messages, with a parametrized endpoint, that takes since_time and since_id that return all messages since timestamp or all messages since id, empty document when there are none, and 400 if there's more messages the
asciilifeform: what does the bot operator get out of it ?
asciilifeform: i meant, what is the use of this.
asciilifeform: sure, if you ~only~ want to emulate 'human reader', it is not difficult. but what exactly is the point of this exercise.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-07 00:56 mircea_popescu: "Hi team at Trilema How are you? I came across your excellent gaming site: http://trilema.com " << one of the pleasures of keeping a personal blog is that well... what is it ?
asciilifeform: but in actual practice, ~nobody bothers.
mircea_popescu: there's big money in this, of course, and has for decades. "advertising industry" "fraud detection". it never worked.
asciilifeform: this is a typical and lulzy reversal of the usual mircea_popescu vs asciilifeform mega-threadz
mircea_popescu: the notion one can distinguish a supervised bot from a slightly less supervised bot is wishful thinking ; no matter the effort expended.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if bot, it was a spiffily human-like bot. when you have log scrolling in one eye all day, ~every day, you get a feel for the zoology
mircea_popescu: this entire "web numbers map to people" theory is just about as ridiculous as the whole "bitcoin addresses map to people" theory.
mod6: As soon as we get through the testing, will deploy here and hopefully can turn attention to trb stuffs.
mod6: So tb0t has a test plan, and is entering the final testing phase. Will keep ya posted.
jurov: mircea_popescu: wtf is with mpex? it's like third time new order receives a signed receipt from mpex, and then completely vanishes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'no motivation to pester' thing is possibly changing, as ro is slowly converted into usg forward base
mircea_popescu: i suppose "power standards for tmsr home" is yet another item we should eventually write up huh.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell pete_dushenski look for 'double-converter' ups - 1500VA and up. these draw current at all times, and lack the familiar relay 'click' - the inverter is always on. they come ~exclusively~ in rack-mount shape.
mircea_popescu: the ru know that ro have plenty of their own ; also tech leader. no motivation to pester them whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: also ro-ru gas relations and energetics altogether have always been cordial.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile stopped exploiting it altogether iirc.
asciilifeform: then logical.
mircea_popescu: also, romania has plenty of gas ; was running out of coal at the time.
asciilifeform: dunno about ro, but where i live gas is piped in by the city
mircea_popescu: rather than rely on machinery in state owned building.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's so spiffy about this. so now they can rely on ru gas instead of own coal ?
mircea_popescu: for instance, romanians in the 90s moved off the "central heating" paradigm on to individual gas units.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here in the north americanistans he can get absolute rubbish installed for maxint.
mircea_popescu: yeah the large lights were very vulnerable, and expensive as fuck.
asciilifeform: nobody keeps serious battery (for double-converting ups) outdoors, they die 10x faster
mircea_popescu: so yes, it filters power throughout ; it supplants short timed blackouts electronically ; and longer course ones while the fuel lasts.
asciilifeform: the battery in this case ( mircea_popescu's outdoor wagon ) is used to start the diesel.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-07#1477901 << gensets, either BingoBoingo or mircea_popescu's, do absolutely nothing until ~30sec or so after total blackout
mircea_popescu: oh look at that, south african race relations are a paragon for the entire world :D
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski if you own rather than rent, buying a large unit is a good home improvement move. for one thing, all electronics benefit from power filtering etc, tv sets, whatever has chips in it. for another thing, redundant power is great and brownouts a thing everywhere. not the worst 5-10k you ever spent, can just sit in the basement and make your day for a week each decade or w/e.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-07 04:17 pete_dushenski: unrelatedly, can anyone recommend a 15min UPS for a workstation ? the power in this building/town is going to the fucking pits, even if it is really goddam cheap.
jurov: but a desktop usually won't eat 400W either, or are you mining? have 24" CRT?
jurov: pete_dushenski: i don't believe these can sustain anywhere like 15min at 400W
trinque: They have always claimed that we Black cannot run an organization like AFRINIC (too complex for our small bird brain...) ... I have leaved [sic] through that during my 10 years as CEO both in Africa and globally. But the reality is that our own people let this kind of thing perpetuate. << muh sides
pete_dushenski: in other white news, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/racism_row_hits_african_internet_registry/
pete_dushenski: ya not a lotta portsmen in the prairies or midwest
BingoBoingo: Exact runtime/fuel consumption can be readily calculated on the Honda
BingoBoingo: Anyways diesel is better generators, but there aren't non-chicom small diesel inverter generator makers.
BingoBoingo: That affects runtime in case all the oilsand burns in a wildfire
BingoBoingo: No, I mean how much fuel to make the powah?
pete_dushenski: 5.6L of power right there
pete_dushenski: https://www.amazon.ca/APC-BR1500G-BACK-UPS-10-Outlet-1500VA/dp/B003Y24DEU/ref=sr_1_3 << another option
pete_dushenski: unrelatedly, can anyone recommend a 15min UPS for a workstation ? the power in this building/town is going to the fucking pits, even if it is really goddam cheap.
pete_dushenski: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/06/intel_xeon_e7_v4/ << TWENTY-FOUR TERABYTES OF RAM
a111: Logged on 2016-06-04 18:44 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 the openssl people hosed your stator script by moving their turdball without a redirect. can we plz stop linking to derps in trb autoloaders ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-07 03:42 mod6: if there is a 99994, soonish, it'll just contain any fixes required for this openssl issue.
mod6: if there is a 99994, soonish, it'll just contain any fixes required for this openssl issue.
mod6: and am not positive on import/export making it in yet -- needs further review testing
mod6: <+pete_dushenski> mod6: any timeline on the 99994k release ? looking forward to testing trb with import/export, etc. << not at the moment.
pete_dushenski: anyone else, i'd be reaming their incompetency, but mp has own dictionary that supersedes oxford, etc.
mircea_popescu: daugthers better.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: "The old man's daugther prayed God" << dunno if intentional spelling or not
mircea_popescu: "woman in vietnam sells airline - check out the bikinis". schmucks.
pete_dushenski: in other news, "More than two-thirds of the Humvees the US supplied to Iraq to fight terrorists have ended up in the hands of Islamic State militants" which is like saying that 2/3 of chip foundries given to the chinese to fight inflation and unions are now being used for bitcoin terrorism. heh.
pete_dushenski: mod6: any timeline on the 99994k release ? looking forward to testing trb with import/export, etc.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: ummm... that was the point.
phf: ben_vulpes: there's also http://www.lispworks.com/products/lw4mr.html but i haven't tried it yet
phf: they did a lot of work to ensure that things just work, so you put a couple of annotations in your lisp and can call those lisp functions from either android or ios. the two limitations is that you don't get an easy way to call from lisp back into native (at least that was the case when i tried it). the idea is that you write all your logic in lisp and use native exclusively as view. and second limitation is that built executable lacks compiler, s
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475432 << i've used it, and the wukix people are responsive to feature requests. i think the source is a fork of one of kyoto common lisp derivatives, probably akcl. fwiw it's the same lineage as gcl and ecl, so ascii's "why not compile ecl" is entirely reasonable
phf: i'm surprised the bot is still operational, but i guess that's how it goes
phf: mod6: if you want i can spec it out for you, but that's the direction i want to take my some miniserver, that i would put on top of my znc logs
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475379 << best api would be kako log format "<whatever incremental id your message has>;<unix timestamp>;<nick>;<message>" and "<id>;<timestamp>;*;<nick> <message>" for /me messages, with a parametrized endpoint, that takes since_time and since_id that return all messages since timestamp or all messages since id, empty document when there are none, and 400 if there's more messages then you're willing to send
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell pete_dushenski silicon is element 14, ~silicone~ is a type of synthetic rubber ! i can't even fathom how folks confuse the 2
mircea_popescu: "Hi team at Trilema How are you? I came across your excellent gaming site: http://trilema.com " << one of the pleasures of keeping a personal blog is that well... what is it ?
trinque: it's such an obvious strategy if you suck that looking for the "original" is a bit silly
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Christianity: The original socialism? - http://www.contravex.com/2016/06/06/christianity-the-original-socialism/
mircea_popescu: when you publish a report with the wrong month's title ';/
trinque: mircea_popescu: I threw those in; I have to fix the tape between new deedbot and old (actual deed-related) code
a111: Logged on 2016-06-06 23:23 mircea_popescu: speaking of sexual offal, why is it that all the marginal women ~nobody'd give the time of day imagine they "speak for all of us", ie, somehow represent femaleness an' womanhood ?
a111: Logged on 2016-02-26 03:53 mircea_popescu: yeah well. meanwhile at reality ranch, all contact sports have this phenomena, where people age out of it. it's natural. but they don't WANT out of it, because they fucking liked it. so they become radio commentators, referees, whatever they can find.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-06 22:04 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-06#1477600 << not altogether an idle question.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-06#1477797 << what i can't figure out is why they never talk. for srs, what does the schmuck have to lose now ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-06 22:03 mircea_popescu: in other news i finally replaced a rather loud psu. life's good!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-06#1477796 << i installed an altogether silent one in february, but i can still hear the inductor sometimes. mega-disappointment.
mircea_popescu: i wonder if anyone remembers early 2015, "billion dollar market cap" ripple, millions "traded" a day and other flights of fancy.
mircea_popescu: it's the weirdest shit of all time.
mircea_popescu: speaking of sexual offal, why is it that all the marginal women ~nobody'd give the time of day imagine they "speak for all of us", ie, somehow represent femaleness an' womanhood ?
mircea_popescu: dude gtfo, trans porn is interesting in the same sense any other gore is interesting.
shinohai: http://www.alternet.org/sex-amp-relationships/why-trans-porn-hugely-popular-among-hetero-men "The people of Brazil, Italy, Argentina, and Russia appear to be the most likely to watch trans porn."
BingoBoingo: In other news, in spite of being broke the Illinois government is about to resurrect its program to reintroduce Aligator Gar. I am thrilled!
a111: Logged on 2016-06-06 18:22 asciilifeform: 'This will create a real full node in your browser: your browser will connect to the p2p network and do all of the block verification/serving.' << l0l suuuure.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-06 15:54 jurov: Yes. just pgp sign the text "I agree."
a111: Logged on 2016-06-06 15:10 asciilifeform: imho the only interesting mystery here is what it was, that was so loathesome, that even appelbaum refused to do it and had sentence of shitburial carried out.
asciilifeform: but they ALL have same problem.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-21 01:38 mircea_popescu: well anyway : two trains moving on the same track leave simultaneously 29 miles apart, one doing 5mph the other 7mp. a fly caugh between them flies straight until it reaches a train then turns back and recurses, doing 9mph.
asciilifeform: for one thing, you need to have the solution to a case of problem to use it as crypto. otherwise you could 'elementary proof of fermat's conjecture is the key!'
asciilifeform: that was the plan for 100+ yrs.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-06 15:01 asciilifeform: 'Hey there! My name is Jacob Appelbaum. I'm pretty famous for stealing other people's research and putting my own name on it. I also spend a lot of my time pretending to be a badass hacker, but actually I can only barely code. I enjoy using my social capital, influence, and power in order to manipulate other people into getting what I want. From all that, it's pretty clear that I'm awesome! However, in severa
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-06#1477594 << is this the new dekulakization ? "oh, prof sanders didn't even do anything, it was black women all along" ?
mircea_popescu: which is starting to explain how chinese ended up chinese rather than a proper language.
mircea_popescu: and there's absolutely no way that i can guarantee when drawing up the math of the cypher, that "all uses of symbol X will always be ambiguous in the space" or w/e dumb shit.
mircea_popescu: that's the bitch now innit. that's at least what i was longfaced about earlier, "in practical eavesdropping you don't EVER care about message integrity. if your algebraic cyrptosystem is porous to someone saying "bring me all messages that discuss ALEODOR" or whatever, and then he can discern something about them - say that ALL possible forms of one use it in the negative - you're still as fucked as a three year old in a pedo
asciilifeform: where the space is ENTIRELY flat.
asciilifeform: the only genuine 'can solve in ANY way' is in otp.
asciilifeform: in practice opponent ~always~ knows something about the message space.
mircea_popescu: but, that said : the principles to be built upon are exactly the "well, i can solve this any way you want" said the cracker to eve. hence, stuff like polynomial roots are very respectable idea.
mircea_popescu: the current discussion is from a "in house algebraicist" considering his job, "what's the worst that can come up when the suits decide to solve X"
mircea_popescu: so we likely need to re-do the hardness measurements anyway, from a crypto pov ; to use it in a crypto pov.
mircea_popescu: saying "x is np hard" is like saying "the us is rich". everyone you meet there is still fucking poor.
asciilifeform: one simple example that i played with in the winter is 'graph clique problem'
mircea_popescu: though some material recently linked made a very good point : "np complete" and other hardness discussions aren't even meaningful here. the term refers to WORST CASE, not to average case or anything.
asciilifeform: which is why there are entire encyclopaedias of np-complete problems, but none of them have been used in a working cryptosystem
jurov: can't we abuse polynomial roots somehow for proven trapdoor function? Like, Abel–Ruffini theorem proves you can't solve certain polynomials algebraically
asciilifeform: i still can't fully swallow how there is this entire field that isn't certain whether it exists or is simply smelling own farts.
asciilifeform: if they even exist.