gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/45c39efb-967b-4c3b-9c6a-b9d2dff8afeb/?raw=true (re the tor thing)
shinohai: We got a Roger Ver in the making here!
mats: so you've moved the goalpost from 'our pool' to 'bribe miners'
thestringpuller: mats: well from a financial perspective, not a political perspective. at the very least bribe miners to vote one way or the other...
a111: Logged on 2016-06-28 11:31 thestringpuller: https://forum.bitcoin.com/pools/a-bitcoin-com-mining-pool-t8999.html << why did our pool never get off the ground?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-28 03:47 phf: i have that cockli box by the way. i'm probably going to spin up an instance on it, but if anybody wants to attempt that task, feel free to take over
jurov: Framedragger, imo we should mix few interesting failures into the data. otherwise we risk getting kicked out from tmsr :D
jurov: lol i was then prolly mitm'd too.. aside from ~10 cases of obvious corruption (openssh won't even read them) i did not find any key with factor in 10000primes.txt
thestringpuller: https://forum.bitcoin.com/pools/a-bitcoin-com-mining-pool-t8999.html << why did our pool never get off the ground?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: but have you considered that there are fewer implementations for ssh (and the better part of the ssh servers in the wild run openssh), and more implementations for all kinds of broken pgp? so it may simply be less likely to spot a badly generated ssh key.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 17:15 asciilifeform: the historic ~0.1% popping rate of ssh keys has nothing to do with flips, and everything to do with embedded gadgets with no rng
Framedragger: asciilifeform: maybe i did fuck up in some very unique way. don't know. oh and the ip addresses are in random order, so there's that
a111: Logged on 2016-06-28 00:28 mircea_popescu: Framedragger is this one of those guys you're friends with, then ?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: re. keys - interesting. i don't think i was mitm'd, 13 machines and all, not that it's not possible or anything, and the machines were on the same provider, so, lol, of course possible in principle. but specific mitm's which give working unique keys? hm. but, interesting, i don't have an answer here.
asciilifeform: he had the next step ready-made.
mircea_popescu: then again it's rather common for people to do something smart early and then be shockingly stolidly dumb for the rest of their lives.
asciilifeform: another - nsa confiscation.
asciilifeform: (one - not very sexy answer - is that it was a fraud. source was published nowhere, nor anyone other than lenat exposed to it afaik)
asciilifeform: in which possibly lie the answers to 1,001 riddles elsewhere.
asciilifeform: why lenat dropped eurisko and burned the rest of his life on idiocy is the $64k question
asciilifeform: the actual implementation language and mechanism
mircea_popescu: lol the greatness of machinery.
mircea_popescu: all the weird shit you care about...
asciilifeform: it was then mirrored by kako and for all i know is still up.
asciilifeform: some pretty interesting material in there, actually.
mircea_popescu: apparently only some people outgrow being 9, and lenat isn't one of them.
mircea_popescu: distinctly reminescent of 9yo me writing "utility programs" consisting of pre-selected arbitrary aditions and their results.
mircea_popescu: you do not. and more improtantly : you need no human anything in there. you wanna succeed in your own terms, go, succeed.
mircea_popescu: seriously, they're going to put the rules in by hand arbitrarily and expect the machine to do something with that ?
asciilifeform: the 'great navigators' navigated by everett's device.
mircea_popescu: "some notion" carries no water ; definitely early navigation was bereft of either understanding motion or destination.
mircea_popescu: the machine played dead reckoning not some sort of absolute evaluation of the eternal positions
asciilifeform: taking for a moment the assumption that sedol ~actually~ lost --
asciilifeform: now we know that mircea_popescu doesn't need warez - his hdd has a knob that turns whole thing into an adder, and he simply cycles through the states until he gets a disk with the desired 1333333337 w4r3z on it.
asciilifeform: i'll sleep a bit while mircea_popescu sets the trillion parameters
mircea_popescu: phf and the third is that it absolutely should not make any concession to the finite nature of the universe. three billion trillion parameters ? OK!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how's it to test a b00k containing a SINGLE instance of the canonical 'my sister, do you still recall как Ельцин бился мордой в пол ?'
mircea_popescu: the other is, that it should keep context of "this text" ; separately context of "everything i ever saw in this language" and yet separately "everything i ever saw".
mircea_popescu: phf there's two (or perhaps three) aspects here. one is, that it should first pass through the entire item (book or w/e), to adjust itself, and then go once more through it, on the basis of that, and then again. similar to how "page rank" works, once the result is stable it thinks it's done.
asciilifeform: imho cyc is what the schmuck blew rest of his life on after 'eurisko' was confiscated for national seeek00000rity
phf: i like the idea of using hidden markov models on ocr-ed text
mircea_popescu: ftr, i wouldn't take cyc for anything other than a fine guide of what not to do.
mircea_popescu: use the fact that the machine as is, runnign whatever crap it runs, can still do millions of cycles a second, and can store billions and trillions of bytes.
phf: i believe that was described in the "Sussman attains enlightenment"
asciilifeform: but none of these worked worth a tinker's damn and not a single chesstron written by actual chess players ever won a serious tourney
asciilifeform: incidentally it is interesting to recall that at one point ai game player folks were interested in heuristic generators and the like - mechanisms that were ~applicable across domains~
mircea_popescu: i was stuck publishing a pdf in my latest article because fuck me there's no sane ocr ;/
mircea_popescu: there doesn't exist currently any ocr package that uses a proper statistical model, and is self-trained on the text, and on all text.
mircea_popescu: there's worse fates to library text than being read once.
mircea_popescu: phf incidentally, how interested are you in the unholy art of probabilistic models ? it occurs to me that making a proper ocr would be a most respectable task, but not really for everyone.
asciilifeform: but that no one will improve on it to the point where i can throw out the original TB and be ~certain~ of no irrevocable loss.
mircea_popescu: trained statistical model for ocr, either markov or whatever.
asciilifeform: there is elementarily not enough qualified meat alive.
mircea_popescu: and stop with the romanticisms already.
mircea_popescu: it works except where people don't bother.
mircea_popescu: makes ten trillion parameters, sets them all to 0, then sets more and more to values
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform self-trained like the markov nonsense works.
mircea_popescu: "hm, i wonder how come these guys keep speaking about modems in non-modem context".
asciilifeform: think about the kind of persistend turd that one gets with ocr
mircea_popescu: there's really no reason a 100% accuracy over 1mb text ocr can't be had today.
asciilifeform: anyway ocr for mathematics is ~hopeless.
mircea_popescu: i had an issue with an ocr that was TOO informed, kept creating single glyph fl and other wonders.
asciilifeform: this is annoying but the 100x mass saving pays off.
asciilifeform: by transforming 'similar' letter into another.
mircea_popescu: that's another thing, must have MUCH BETTER ocr.
mircea_popescu: stum. the sweet juice of grapes.
mircea_popescu: scans as bitmaps are ~in the situation of wine as stum.
asciilifeform: likewise i have a TB+ of scans here. these can exist as bitmap and naught else.
phf: mod6: there was a hosting provider guy behind the domain cock.li, was interviewed by mp, was selling a vps box access
mircea_popescu: yeah, it's vaguely inhuman, this. the scholar in me is constantly opressed by various shits. 1. "oh we don;t alphabet - pdf" 2. "oh you can't reference text snippet" 3. "oh we forget, what was this ? linkrot ?" and i think there's more
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta what the first article on my blog was about.
mircea_popescu: there's a serious problem with digital handling of text, as we have it atm.
mircea_popescu: trinque tbh, i think wikis are a (braindamaged, dysfunctional, uncomprehending) response to the html-is-broken / transclusion issue discussed yest and etc.
phf: i have that cockli box by the way. i'm probably going to spin up an instance on it, but if anybody wants to attempt that task, feel free to take over
trinque: if they are in my wot, sure
asciilifeform: how to edit ? folks get shell on the box ?
asciilifeform: trinque, mod6, et al: wikis work when folks actually bother editing..
mod6: so it works for the time being.
mod6: <+trinque> sometime I could hack another field onto it; I'm not certain I like the thing (or wikis) << I don't love wikis either, but we need a place for quick docs.
mod6: <+trinque> it uses the page title verbatim in the URL << ok i think I can just have shinohai change the page title then, thx!
trinque: but we must include them
trinque: they're really a response to "tards can't into html"
trinque: mod6: wiki is the code that runs cliki.net
asciilifeform: mod6: this is not even wholly improbable. recall the selection criteria for dingledinity
trinque: like the child-fucking kind
a111: Logged on 2016-06-28 00:31 mircea_popescu: there is nothing dingledine can ever do that can redeem him, because the manner in which he thinks is beyond salvation.
mod6: damnit. the spacebar on this thing is getting toast.
mod6: trinqueis there a way to update this URL so it doesn't contain spaces? i.e.: http://wiki.deedbot.org/The%20Real%20Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: phf it's probably the "fire retardant" retardation
mod6: time for me to work on the SoBA already!
BingoBoingo: Milestones in pipe wrench ownership #2: When loosening a slip fitting the pipe decides to tear instead
mircea_popescu: he must be killed, publicly, and the carcass left to rot where it fell.
mircea_popescu: there is nothing dingledine can ever do that can redeem him, because the manner in which he thinks is beyond salvation.
mircea_popescu: i know, they constantly try to wander in here also.
asciilifeform: insurgency theatre.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger is this one of those guys you're friends with, then ?
mircea_popescu: fuck these idiots with hot pokers already omfg.
mircea_popescu: usg agent wondering if the actual people fighting the usg are a "cointelpro style" "attack" ?
mircea_popescu: "we won't bury the corpse until nsa provides a new trough"
asciilifeform: ons. Tor, and our broader freedom movement, are about communities, and about how we want to interact with each other. Let's handle this situation as an example of how we want to do it right.'
asciilifeform: 'It's tempting to wonder if there's some cointelpro-style attack going on. Realistically, we likely do have the attention of governments who are well-funded to attack us. But first, this really doesn't look like a cointelpro op. The complaints come from people both inside and outside the Tor community, and I know some of them. And second, in this case it really doesn't matter. It's no excuse for not taking responsibility for our acti
mircea_popescu: " Things are probably going to get worse before they get better." << ahahahaha.
mircea_popescu: i don't think you fully appreciate just how braindamaged this "laughing gas of the future" actually is.
mircea_popescu: they wouldn't have discoverd it exists week-and-a-half after "having a solution" and buolding consensus etc
mircea_popescu: the above discussed
asciilifeform: or hm iirc there was some timelock thing
asciilifeform: the list of verboten eth addrs
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which is why imho you oughta have made the 'bad' addr list a few GB.
mircea_popescu: ethereum being "smart", it's not just mempool, but also cpupool. and the "soft fork" being essentially a "enumerate badness" attempt, you still gotta check and make sure tx isn't on the verboten list. which computation you do for free, because you believe in mit, socialism and buterin.
mircea_popescu: (one of the lulziest parts - they made their criteria be < cost. in non-scamcoin-head terms, this is not unlike making a soft fork dependent on mempool being < x.)
mircea_popescu: sooo, ethereum "soft fork" due to go in, about 60 hours left. i hope everyone's ready for the lulzpocalypse
mircea_popescu: and in other interior decorating tricks and tips, http://66.media.tumblr.com/fd46f28c89435fe3f09fdc215e8698f4/tumblr_o2dbxxfVvY1uycyh2o1_1280.jpg
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Don't forget to change the bait or you'll zap everything but mosquitos!
asciilifeform: reminds me, i gotta change the uv lamp in bugzapper.
mircea_popescu: carmine persico ruled the colombos for 40 years, of which 36 in jail.
asciilifeform: girl smells the moneyz.
mircea_popescu: yeah what's the girl say about all this ? itching to alpha bitch ?
mircea_popescu: who could ever have predicted alf is SO DEDICATED to his new country, he'll build jamestown on the misipipi before leaving.
BingoBoingo: Carry on the experiment, become 31337 slumlord!
mircea_popescu: wtf else, putin doesn't understand how the world works ?
mircea_popescu: this bizarro libertard thing where "not using words in the way we'd prefer them used" = "not using words right"
asciilifeform: head pidor by the latrine
asciilifeform: l0l: the sp4mz0rz pushing the derelict houses called me back and offered to consolidate the tour, they actually thought i wanted to buy ~all~ of them..
phf: best pidor among the girls
mircea_popescu: bullshit. if anyone knows what shit means "in the scene" it'd be me, and yes cuck means inferior.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha "alpha cucks out there".
mircea_popescu: the cuckocalypse!
mircea_popescu: trinque wait, they got linguistically cuckolded by their own patronym, fucking around with right wingers without their approval ?
trinque: http://www.vice.com/read/actual-cuckolds-are-pissed-off-at-the-far-right-using-cuck-as-an-insult << teh infinilulz
mircea_popescu: there's this deeply ingrained expectation of "participating" without participation.
asciilifeform: 'hi i heard there is a party, let me stand in the corner and snort the alcohol fume plox'
mircea_popescu: heard there's a party ?
shinohai: So it is the fault of the leavers this probablr hamplanet can't get 4,000 calories a day BingoBoingo ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what are the remoras even DOING here
asciilifeform will be touring baltimoralalabad and kandamore in the flesh
mircea_popescu: god damned. let's ban avoid so that we can then do the same inept join part bullshit.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller whether you tolerate the whores working a lot or a little dun enter into this tho.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 21:51 mircea_popescu: got a woman in the house ? she can run with your monyz ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo obese fuck "who's always been" never in his life felt so "ashamed" as when the life support got a little threatened ?
mircea_popescu: there is no "elephant" as a categorically different item
mircea_popescu: only because you're addicted to the consumerist mindset.
asciilifeform: then yes
asciilifeform: i cross the road, i am in paving biz ?
mircea_popescu: what, and you're in the army if you intend to kill people ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you buy a car you are in the car biz, yes. which is why car salesmen rape you so badly.
mircea_popescu: really, in some cultures it's the default domestic arrangement.
phf: the one that i knew wasn't really running it movie back of hand style (or i guess it wasn't like this special thing, "where's my money bitch"). money brought was income and "he takes care of me" etc
mircea_popescu: yeah well, ignorance of the law is no defense.
phf: probably a controversial point because never interacted with those other pimps
mircea_popescu: got a woman in the house ? she can run with your monyz ?
thestringpuller: how is marriage the pimp biz?
mircea_popescu: there isn't a "special" situation where you're a pimp but that's ok because you're not really a pimp.
mircea_popescu: looky : if you own real estate you're in the real estate biz. just like if you're married, you're in the pimp biz. you may suck at it something fierce, but that dun matter.
mircea_popescu: to quote the immortal foca, "boooo... o sa iasa un dezastru."
asciilifeform actually wrote to some of the sellers...
phf: pay locals to defend them with AKs :>
asciilifeform: the monkeys ?
asciilifeform: if i can get fiber there!11111
mircea_popescu: you know, the really cool alpha dudes
asciilifeform: (or if you're thinking of theoretically complete replacement for the rpc - it wouldn't have to be re-written, with correct dozen lines of glue)
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 21:06 phf: fwiw we're saying same thing, but a paper doesn't need to reveal some major secrets to be worthwhile, ~this~ particular paper takes a tired and ideologically aligned "it's them eggheads and their lisp that did it"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-27#1491446 << there doubtlessly is a large helping of that. bad management by engineers who imagined they can manage for reasons unknown. http://trilema.com/2014/fred-quimby-and-ancient-evils/ rather applies.
asciilifeform: plus how much of it is there - a dozen lines ?
jurov: asciilifeform: wiring the all the rest of C code to shiva would have to be redone if replacing with some other cheme, no?
asciilifeform: it is not clear that smbx would be famous and interesting today if they had transformed themselves into a sun earlier.
asciilifeform: pretty much everybody else bought the cheaper suns when they became available. and ran cruddy sun lisps on'em, etc.
mircea_popescu: by (poor) choice rather than by lack of choice.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 21:04 phf: asciilifeform: not at all 100% usg, that's why there was the west coast symbolics media lab, also government didn't stop buying, the contracts were bringing revenue well into the endof90s (i mean still do, but now it's life support peanuts)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-27#1491436 << i think there's some merit to this view. usg wasn't nearly as important as asciilifeform thinks it even in the 80s.
mircea_popescu: phf real estate is the traditional siren song that sinks a certain type of empire builder head.
mircea_popescu: anyway, usage suggestion : fill whiskey glass with good raisins, add rum to the top, leave for an hour. then take the raisins for apple pie, drink the remainder while chatting on irc.
mircea_popescu: they apparently forgot AND EVERYTHING NICE!!1
mircea_popescu: so the actually very competent ron havana club anejo 7yo has been reviewed by the producer, who decided it has flavours of vanilla, chocolate, cocoa, dried fruits and "spices".
phf: BingoBoingo: it's one of those the wire style areas
asciilifeform: it does appear that you can't get fiber in most of these. which is the real deal-killer for me.
phf: baltimore st actually stays rough pretty much all the way downtown (which is club area), but it's ok to walk after dark around E/W switch
phf: north of patterson park is likely to be exactly that cheap because you definitely don't want to go there
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Baltimore-MD/3523_rid/0-25000_price/0-88_mp/pricea_sort/39.313,-76.570641,39.273593,-76.593129_rect/15_zm/0_mmm << i have nfi whether scamz, etc.
shinohai: But I liked the temple of doom. I could get behind religions like that.
phf: they had a different spelling of it (i vaguely suspect on account of indiana jones movie), "kala, divine mother temple" it took me a while to get it
asciilifeform: then nothing happened.
asciilifeform: then somebody ( mircea_popescu ? ) suggested that it could be used to replace the idiot json rpc.
phf: i drove past a mother kali temple somewhere in laurel, md yesterday
asciilifeform: 3) is theoretically r4rs compliant and can be reimplemented without rewriting payload code or replaces with another r4rs-compliant scheme at some future point.
shinohai: No but I see the benefits of having rpc commands use it, as I would love to see those commands separated from daemon
asciilifeform: then again it is 1) unaudited crud that predates bitcoin
shinohai: No, shiva the trb addition. >.>
asciilifeform: the hindu god ?!
phf: fwiw we're saying same thing, but a paper doesn't need to reveal some major secrets to be worthwhile, ~this~ particular paper takes a tired and ideologically aligned "it's them eggheads and their lisp that did it"
asciilifeform: iirc google lives in the old sgi campus.
asciilifeform: (then promptly died)
asciilifeform: afaik amex was the ONLY major 100% non-usgtronic customer.
asciilifeform: there were no massive rollouts.
phf: asciilifeform: not at all 100% usg, that's why there was the west coast symbolics media lab, also government didn't stop buying, the contracts were bringing revenue well into the endof90s (i mean still do, but now it's life support peanuts)
asciilifeform: phf: that the market consisted ~100% of usg, and that it stopped buying, and the commitments smbx was locked into spending-wise remained, and bankrupted it - is not mega-seekrit.
phf: to bubbling debt, etc. not saying that either of us could do it in a few sentences, but that's what i would expect from proper paper on the subject. real estate is not even mentioned in the above hack job
phf: well, that's an opinion. a proper exploration of this subject would answer questions like what was revenue sources, what were the expenses, and then go backwards from there, figuring out where and how those were compromised or failed to correct. smbx burned through something like 10mil 80s cash in 2 years. and they burned through them by being locked into real estate, that lost value post crash. so can explore how the internal culture contributed
asciilifeform: раскат rather
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 20:29 asciilifeform: from phf's link, commentz: '...it's nice that run down neighborhoods get a face lift, and I love craft beer and good food and coffee as much as the next guy (er, gal)-but what happened to the factories and the people that used to work in them? Their lives were largely destroyed by "free trade" and deindustrialization. We were once a producer society, and we were an economically and culturally healthier countr
asciilifeform: (whose launcher stood so tall that a man cannot be photographed in the same frame as it and still be visible)
asciilifeform: phf: smbx was a creature of megalomaniacal empire, like the su 'Рокот' rocket.
asciilifeform: imho there was no possible way for smbx to survive the end of reagan presidency by very long.
asciilifeform: and possibly other threads that aren't found by search box
a111: Logged on 2016-01-17 02:25 asciilifeform: right now best we have was 'symbolics, the failure of heterogeneous engineering' (by some chick?)
phf: the whole Robocop, japanese are taking over american industry and economy time
phf: asciilifeform: last industries closed in fishtown in 88 or so, or right around the financial market crash
asciilifeform: 'Instead of a murder-suicide carried out by John Sheridan, as the prosecutor concluded, Baden found that the CEO of Cooper Health System and his wife, a retired teacher, more likely were preyed upon by a man who killed them and then set a fire to destroy the evidence.'
asciilifeform: are a consumer society, the bright store fronts and restaurants blinding people from seeing the general decay of the nation. Unless there's a revival of production and real technological progress, we are doomed...'
asciilifeform: from phf's link, commentz: '...it's nice that run down neighborhoods get a face lift, and I love craft beer and good food and coffee as much as the next guy (er, gal)-but what happened to the factories and the people that used to work in them? Their lives were largely destroyed by "free trade" and deindustrialization. We were once a producer society, and we were an economically and culturally healthier country (and medically). Now we
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 18:32 mircea_popescu: (note the importance of the gay army in taking land from savages - today as 3000 years ago)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-27#1491361 << they work as lichens because they have (typically) no kidz, and don't give rat's arse about 'school district'
asciilifeform: unless there are 7 of you per flat
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 18:17 phf: you get a balmore workshop not because it's a conan thing to do, but because you're insane and need to paint astral vaginas whether or not there's market for it, and you can afford to pay $90/mo (sometimes late) for your apartment and $100/mo (mostly late) for your studio
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 18:16 phf: once landlords or developers are involved the area has long been considered "interesting" by suburban types and "done" by the gentrification avant guard
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-27#1491350 << approximately the role lichens play in nature
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 17:43 mircea_popescu: ironically, you'd be in a dark cone of immunity because the derps can't quite argue that YOU are responsible by putting kids in harm's way, because they can't say black people are the harm.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-27#1491328 << this dun work. the buggers have an infinite capacity for doublethink and unprincipled-exception.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2016/nobody-could-have-foreseen-their-using-a-woman-as-a-weapon/#comment-117840
mircea_popescu takes some solace in the notion that his sad personal history is not his alone.