asciilifeform: whether nodes obey would depend on who signed.
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't necessarily be over irc, though irc IS rather resilient and we get the benefit of bootstrapping a major irc network if we bake it in
ben_vulpes: i don't have a good enough model to propse anything yet, hence the questions
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i would expect there'd have to be a management language for this.
ben_vulpes: how would someone in the wot interact with the uci; operation by operation over irc? shoop a script in uciasm for execution and billing upon completion?
asciilifeform: you gotta somehow abstract over the 1024 chickens pulling in random directions and dying periodically.
asciilifeform: chaos is bigger adversary here than any others
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform either that or homomorphic encryption
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that would close the triangle
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/UCI_tickets.html#6 << what all would be encompassed by 'networking'?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, just the guy's private history. bulgaria wouldn't extradite him a few years ago ; before that was wounded in daghestan but survived etc.
mod6: s/Tabernacle/Temple ? Anyway, just throwin it out there.
mod6: The Most Serene Tabernacle || Tabernacle of La Serenissima
a111: Logged on 2016-07-02 00:20 mircea_popescu: lol yeah, didn't mean for qntra. just mentioned it because it seems to me the "isis" figthers were ru special forces.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-02#1494505 << is logic here 'the genuine article would Never!11' or what
BingoBoingo: I dunno I'm thinking about a "weather" category nao
mircea_popescu: lol yeah, didn't mean for qntra. just mentioned it because it seems to me the "isis" figthers were ru special forces.
BingoBoingo: If we try to cover all of these qntra is going to have to add a "weather" category for them
jurov: shinohai: you can retry now, looks like the error was on my side
trinque: $deed http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160702/attachment.txt?sha1=bb9dab320ed2b6c070546085d4e673871180a6e9
jurov: deedbot: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160702/attachment.txt?sha1=bb9dab320ed2b6c070546085d4e673871180a6e9
jurov: there seems to be some snag with coinbr or mpex, as every month recently, looking into it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/since-what-you-do-all-day-is-jack-off-anyway/#comment-93555 << in other antique trilema lulz, check out what people didn't make a bitcoin for.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 18:48 hanbot: asciilifeform didja learn their variety speak? or figure it's a fluke (i thought theory was wrong demo)?
asciilifeform: at any rate, this is not simply a usaschwitz problem, if ANY of you buy chinese glass-anything, there ain't no boron in there.
mircea_popescu: so i posit to you that your problem is not even slightly a matter of "wrong knife", along the lines of, "if only i had hyfdrofluoric acid - could melt glass", but more of low energy. you wish to amass moar power not more knowledge, to dent teh pot.
asciilifeform: there is always a correct knife.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i offer the knife whereby we cut them off, like defective siamese twin, from actual people.
jurov: well, ask for 'borosilicate kettle acc. to ISO standard'. and get some degree burns and sue them and get rich
mircea_popescu: speaking of folks, here's a handy visual to explain the concept http://66.media.tumblr.com/e04a4eb96aecadff52219a05575fd1a8/tumblr_ng9qc75iM91shqa8eo1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: folks can test in 3 seconds "social media" site of "their choice" is neither , nor secure.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 18:34 hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1494134 << there's always minigod, neh?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1494354 << lol actually "The MiniChurch" is not all bad.
asciilifeform: would put some fear of god back into the fuckers, if folks could test in 3sec.
asciilifeform: at one point trademark at least strongly implied 'same thing your grandfather had'
mircea_popescu: a ok then.
mircea_popescu: or if you mean the other thing, eu, good, krama, alloy. same linguistic principle as eutectic, (teksis = melting).
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 16:44 shinohai: There was local "law-enforcement" advisory in the area once, asking citizens to report suspicious buyers of old glassware at yard sales.
jurov: and apparently it's available in the US: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=SIMAX+glassware
jurov: i did not do them yet
ben_vulpes: quality is also expensive, and if the engineers not managed, can readily turn into an unbounded downside cost.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 16:39 asciilifeform: incidentally before the invention of borosilicate glass, it was customary for chemists to blow their own labware.
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how the world works.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 16:27 asciilifeform: (the owners of the trademark are cashing in, in the familiar american style, by selling exploding junk glass instead)
mircea_popescu: if i were a younger, innocent verision of myself, like the quoted alf has the unspeakable advantage of being, i'd disbelieve this story.
hanbot: the guy actually took out a second lace from a pair of shoes he was trying to sell and gave me that one to go with.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1494318 << speaking of which, i went into a shoe repair shop here the other day for laces (which are not sold in shoe stores, mind you). they had one. not one pair, one shoelace.
mircea_popescu: them, and not pleading in favour of their intelligence, organisational importance or general sanity : they captured some black chick that shat her unwanted baby in a toilet and flushed. THIS is a "top 10 fugitive".
mircea_popescu: and in other incredibly postmodern lulz : https://archive.is/zhCZf << postmodern art must be translated, so : fbi.gov has a banner roller just like any wanna-be "news site^Hmedia property" of the "mainsteam" variety. on this roller, because they apparently ran out of photographs or photography, in the age of the most abundant photographism, they have a picture of a lcd screen. that lcd screen depicts material originated from
mircea_popescu: that cost the us 100 bucks, there's ten "this is a solved problem" idiocies that cost 100 mn each.
mircea_popescu: the true sin is that it pretends to seal off all sorts of good parts.
mircea_popescu: t. it is not only, and not principally, and arguably barely at all the sin of inept us management that it drives the productive forces of its slave empire into dead ends.
mircea_popescu: "When a technology matures into a cash cow and then grows old, research into subtle undiscovered potentials abates in the name of cost-cutting. The neon sign has been common for a half-century and more. It is obvious that nothing remains to be discovered. There is no further technology to evolve, there are no new art forms to explore, there is no possible cross-fertilization with other disciplines" <<< al has an excellet poin
mircea_popescu: o holy shit the uncleal link. casimir effect ?! bejesus.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 16:29 gabriel_laddel: ^ another fun thing to do in irl ba
mircea_popescu: there's nothing the us can make that the thirld world needs and couldn't make. kinda why we're here in the first place, libertards ruined "the civilised world".
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 16:25 gabriel_laddel: Not especially, but was brainstorming products to sell in SA (south america) that are a PITA to get into / create here in the USSA
a111: Logged on 2016-06-22 16:02 ascii_deadfiber: i expect a shift of resources back to the 'corrode bitcoin' stratagem, vs the 'pump shitcoin'
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 13:04 shinohai: In other news, r/btc is celebrating this morning imagining that angry miners will soon adopt Classic and usher in the fork.
phf: davout: too late, all the action is happening in #trilema-trinque
phf: probably just found somebody who has their shit sufficiently together to follow up on a sales lead without much prodding
hanbot: asciilifeform didja learn their variety speak? or figure it's a fluke (i thought theory was wrong demo)?
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, i finally found some properly greedy folk in bmore willing to show me some boxez
asciilifeform: and watch the paperworks.
asciilifeform: (usg doesn't really, despite the pretense, much care re pea shooter)
shinohai: There was local "law-enforcement" advisory in the area once, asking citizens to report suspicious buyers of old glassware at yard sales.
asciilifeform: (iirc they use old fire extinguishers for pressure vessel now)
asciilifeform: the leuckart wallach reaction, or the grignard, or whatever other processes, work ok in stainless steel
asciilifeform: (the high-temp variant needs an oxygen flame and is tricky to work)
asciilifeform: incidentally before the invention of borosilicate glass, it was customary for chemists to blow their own labware.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 16:26 asciilifeform: simple pocket spectroscope that would let you distinguish shit-faux-pyrex from the real on, in a shop.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: pyrex is ~4% boron by mass, ought to have absorption line there.
gabriel_laddel: ^ another fun thing to do in irl ba
asciilifeform: http://nowiknow.com/the-war-against-pyrex << for n000bz.
asciilifeform: (the owners of the trademark are cashing in, in the familiar american style, by selling exploding junk glass instead)
asciilifeform: simple pocket spectroscope that would let you distinguish shit-faux-pyrex from the real on, in a shop.
gabriel_laddel: Not especially, but was brainstorming products to sell in SA (south america) that are a PITA to get into / create here in the USSA
mircea_popescu: a kk then
asciilifeform: the very same! i missed it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the article is in fact linked first thing in the piece, or did you have another in mind ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1494280 << dunno about other folx but i have a parachute packed for this.
mircea_popescu: that reddit is not worth a dime alltogether is true ; yet there's an ample supply of these idiots who think otherwise. why not help them get their "traffics" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but these considerations aside, looky : http://startupbros.com/cracking-reddit-how-to-get-thousands-of-visitors-to-your-campaign-with-reddit-marketing/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am quite familiar with this strategy, given as it was the u.s. army's unofficial doctrine for chemical warfare (eat butyrylcholinesterase 'bioscavenger' antidote, then release sarin)
mircea_popescu: there's a humongo strategic difference between "no alternative exists" and "we don't like the alternative as it contradicts our ideology". bitcoin is the ur-example of how to drive this through.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perfectly fine way to win a war, don your scuba diving suit and drown the place.
mircea_popescu: we can't be spammed. web-anything "social media" or whatever you call the bullshit - can. this advantage must be a) kept sharp and b) driven through.
shinohai: I dunno what mp's answer is, but FOR THE LULZ!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's the use of spamming reddit ?
mircea_popescu: http://deliciousnights.tumblr.com/post/136528012045/adriana-chechik-adriana-chechik-the-ultimate << the whole strip / sauce for the eager.
phf: that's an oglaf strip right there
asciilifeform: any tighter and they fuse.
asciilifeform: i meant the cockz
asciilifeform: slotin holding them hemispheres apart with cock.
mircea_popescu: and in other social meda / let's watch snails fuck news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/81ebd498b74133dd0a57cb55e6901bc8/tumblr_o0dlr0D4Ee1rat4opo3_500.gif
mircea_popescu: (note also you have no proof it was me! because the signature doesn't check out!)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l! what's the signature of ?
shinohai likes the crafty, rum-swigging mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: well, spread the word lol.
deedbot: [Trilema] Reddit, the derpage of the Internet - http://trilema.com/2016/reddit-the-derpage-of-the-internet/
mircea_popescu: "females should have no expectation of control over the usage of their girly bits, because well.... oooobviously".
phf: “A judge in Virginia rules that people should have no expectation of privacy on their home PCs because no connected computer "is immune from invasion."”
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 15:46 mircea_popescu: it's why nsa fails so badly. all their budget goes to filling the barn, ~none to guarding the barn.
asciilifeform: S. Secret Service only discovered once it was ordered by a court to pay a portion of the seizure back to affected claimants,”...' << gold
asciilifeform: 'According to an affidavit unsealed Thursday, the Justice Department learned in April 2015 that Bridges might have kept a private cryptographic key giving him access to a bitcoin wallet with the $700,000 in currency that the Silk Road task force had seized in 2014. The department urged the agency to move the funds elsewhere. “Unfortunately, the U.S. Secret Service did not do so and the funds were thereafter stolen, something the U.
asciilifeform: like the last dozen or so.
mircea_popescu: most idiots take 15 minutes to clear two feet if you put any sort of arch, gate or door there.
mircea_popescu: which is why the sub-normals end up gathered around doorways. they approach a threshold, get all panicked, stop. then eventually they cross it, at which point - mindblank.
mircea_popescu: also happens when they cross thresholds.
shinohai: lol Shaun Bridges possibly stole even more Bitcoin than the feebs originally stated. http://archive.is/DpFL6
mircea_popescu: doing some research in the bowels of trilema i fell upon http://trilema.com/2014/the-internet-race-gap/ "So to sum up : the average number of black people on the Internet is, on average, about 15% lower than the average numer of black people on the Internet as far as we can see - and it's probably even worse as far as we can't see."
mircea_popescu: BECAUSE WHY THE FUCKNO
mircea_popescu: in which we find nano ignores the r / -fill= switch
mircea_popescu: motherfucker.
shinohai: There are worse fates.
shinohai: Don't drive either, I use taxis :D
thestringpuller: also shinohai how can you stand driving in your area? I was there during rush hour last night and think I had a minor stroke.
mircea_popescu: im having rum and watching butts rise. altogether a wash!
trinque: BingoBoingo: is that the one from earlier?
mircea_popescu: ^ not in there!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can always skip the 'church of' prefix.
trinque: the thing does more than one command now
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 13:22 mircea_popescu: shinohai kinda why i put this in the open, so people can come up with a good name maybe.
BingoBoingo: Clintonese is a New York dialect that Pretends to be a hillbilly Arkansas tongue until it can use its husand like the first stage of a rocket for its own political career
BingoBoingo: The whole decoding Clintonese
asciilifeform: these are standard americanisms used by registered chur^H^H^H^Hnonprofits
mircea_popescu: did they decide to make it about being nice to fat women instead ?
asciilifeform: 'This year's challenge (detailed below) is a real-world problem in nuclear verification, sponsored by and designed in partnership with the Nuclear Threat Initiative (http://www.nti.org/), a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization working to reduce the threat of ...'
asciilifeform: in other 'news', this year's underhanded c contest is a lul: http://underhanded-c.org/#summary
mircea_popescu: " not one of the every other countries that likes cocaine too" << "not one of the other countries where they like cocaine too"
mircea_popescu: and in other nerws, http://66.media.tumblr.com/377826a655939544e74b1ac5e5960e81/tumblr_ny5ec6IwnA1u5z1ezo1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: phf imagine if brothels worked like that.
phf: it up - oh and the seat is leather - very classy so i want to pick it up - anyway, maybe you should think about it - nah i want to pick it up - well give it a day or something - ... ok i'll pick it up tomorrow" haven't heard anything from the guy.
phf: my first attempted motorcycle purchase went exactly like this. i show up, and the bike's fucking spiffy, a honda cafe racer conversion. i saw it on craigslist, research all the things, etc. etc. the conversation went something like "check out this thing that i did to this bike – ooh yeah it's cool, so i want to pick it up – yeah i replaced the pipe from this one to this other one - yeah i saw the original this is much better, so i want to pick
asciilifeform: ^ thing is about the size of pc fulltower, but weighs ~40kg, and console - similar
mircea_popescu: if you DID have it, you wouldn't sell the 3620. because great.
adlai will get back on this issue, unless phf's meatwot beats his meatwot to the meatpunch
mircea_popescu: phf yeah, but then he wouldn't have it anymore.
adlai: they don't have to visit your house, but i never said maryland
phf: his objections are bogus, even the time/money thing, and they go through the usual asciilifeform escalations. thing can be taken of his hands within a week, for $5k or so, with no effort on his part, besides "take it to the front porch when a man gets there"
asciilifeform has a ~very~ acute perception of the value of his time
asciilifeform: if thing were worth 20k, then perhaps
asciilifeform: basically the exercise isn't worth my time for what i am likely to expend in time and what can realistically sell for.
mircea_popescu: the buyer also has to shave her snatch and milk > 1 cup per teat.
asciilifeform: anyway it can only be sold via wot, because buyer has to take my word that the thing isn't ~currently~ the pile of scrap it will almost certainly turn into when it moves.
asciilifeform: the box is on track to star in asciilifeform's peine forte et dure.
phf: asciilifeform: last time we talked about i basically got an impression that you don't want to sell it, which has been reconfirmed by this conversation, which is unfortunate since there are people who would actually put it to good use.
mircea_popescu: adlai apparently they ran out of jews in washington.
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as economic inefficiencies, yeah.
adlai: btw, the way to get something sold is to pay a salesman commission.
mircea_popescu: yes, but you're mixing things. (the item) is not = (the item) + (transport service for the item). you can't want "the item" to net you top dollars through sometyhing that's not the item.
phf: asciilifeform: if you're serious about selling it, i can make it happen. only reason i've not been pursuing this line, is because you're preemptively sabotaging the whole thing
asciilifeform: my only remaining interest in the thing is to net top dollarz
mircea_popescu: "free on board". come pick it up ; if you don't we throw it in the water.
phf: for example i bought an xl1201, it's been sitting at a friend's place in seattle for 8 months now, because it's waiting for me to go there in person and pick it up myself
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know there is such a thing in business as "FOB"
mircea_popescu: gotta love these boxes doing 7MB/s tho. for srs. 3gb in 7 minutes ? sign me up
asciilifeform: yeah and they charge 5k
asciilifeform: but i ain't stuffing it in a box with the usual moneyback
asciilifeform: picture the cost of moving a cm
asciilifeform: to the point that ~0 afaik remain...
asciilifeform: the euro folk were poor, and their lispms yet costlier and fewer in number than in usa
asciilifeform: incidentally, i should like to learn what became of, e.g., racal norsk's lispm. or the french one, whose name escapes me
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1493962 << while that true, not applicable here. you should see what a standard office drone does with a large csv in his excel. 8 hour work day so as to avoid 20 minutes' worth of awk, and that includes the time reading docs.
mircea_popescu: the only difference between actual people and the us scumbags is that someone apparently told the latter they have a say.
mircea_popescu: salaries at the time 2-4k or so rol/mo ; rol to usd ~100 ; machine cost like 1800 or so if memory serves.
asciilifeform: the pdp .
mircea_popescu: but in other lulz, my first computer cost, in ppp, about 200k in today's usd.
mircea_popescu: the correct model i think is sex. sex is free, to the asker ; it goes for a song. but it depends which asker and what song.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 00:15 trinque: I don't lament that there isn't some opensource naggum editor out there; I lament that I can't spend 20k or w/e and buy an actual computer
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1493863 << the concept of "free" as used here is unsound. there is such a thing as technological cost. linux is free, it can bash, derps whine about "firefox automation tools". hurr.
mircea_popescu: of course, as the legendary fool who's shown the moon and looks at the finger, people will then debate "what did it", in terms of, you know, if only we flavoured communism shit with THIS vanilla bean!
mircea_popescu: the moment the bs with "everyone" and "anyone" and so on starts, the game's lost, all that's to be still established is the exact manner in which the fuck-up will manifest. but the fuck-up is already baked in at that early point.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 00:12 trinque: my reaction to GPL earlier has to do with that. we're all lamenting the wreckage, and wasn't it precisely that too many morons got involved in the craft?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1493859 << honestly, gpl, like everything else, started from the wrong premise. an expectation that "all people" WILL wreck your life, and everything you touch. all things, be they science, be they politics, be they family, love, art, whatever the fuck they be - are exactly that, a conversation between A SPECIAL KIND of people over whatever time and space expanses. nothing is open to the "com
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 00:02 phf: and even if the kommuniti picked it up and fucked it up we could've still had a "tmsr version -- last naggum release" baseline or whatever
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 23:59 phf: asciilifeform: but to get back to my point, the fact that local-time as implemented by kommmuniti is shit doesn't have to affect ~me~. i know what the right way (or a better one) of doing things is, but if naggum didn't write his paper, i wouldn't. i thought that's kind of the WoT approach
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-30#1493848 << yeah, doesn't affect you until you open a dentist's clinic and the customers "are confused".
phf: adlai: i think that bit is just typo, the '# switch, since that's essentially dead code for all practical purposes
adlai: mircea_popescu: amazingly, the last doctor i saw told me that i have two choices: take the meds, or don't... but tell people you're off them
phf: and it will fail earlier then it has to touch walk.lisp (i'm pretty sure)
mircea_popescu: the things people do once off drugs.
asciilifeform: perhaps i have the last clean copy..
asciilifeform: gotta dredge up the thing
mircea_popescu: but yes, you're entirely correct in that there's no such thing as "scientific knowledge", in the sense of a sort of secret football team in the sky that plays and wins for the average derp, once each day and twice on sunday.
adlai: (and the bugs are literal bitrot. random # appears in between ', because it feels like it)
mircea_popescu: you know what else was "explored, groked and then... '''not accepted'''" ? linen.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 23:33 phf: or common lisp music which is a subset of common lisp to describe a wavelength generation/transformation/composition (i'm pretty sure it was used to do first computer FM synthesis)
trinque: tried baculas and duplicities and all other manner of bullshit
trinque mistrusts anything other than rsync for this
mircea_popescu: one box to another.
asciilifeform: from what to what did mircea_popescu move the filez
a111: Logged on 2016-06-21 15:23 mircea_popescu: if the item in question is uploaded via ssh-mysql directly, phpmyadmin (common mysql interface) dies when trying to say "edit" the column, and wordpress itself fails to pipe the content to apache.
asciilifeform: then wtf
mircea_popescu: BECAUSE WHY THE FUCK NOT
mircea_popescu: in other news, backup process silently fails because move file > 4gb
mircea_popescu: and then | du for good measure. because what it could possibly be needed for
asciilifeform: switches are heathen
mircea_popescu: you know what, du has no reason to even list things other than by size
mircea_popescu: yeah, why the fuck not, type pipes every time, cus it's so fucking hard to have a switch.
mircea_popescu: sooo... du has no sorting ? who the fuck!
asciilifeform: 'True Übermenschen with Will, live off the energy of the hatred of their contemptible worm enemies!!!!'
trinque: could very well be that computing is for the nephews of 2100s Lords.
asciilifeform: 'only the WEAK eat!'
trinque: me either. still a problem.
trinque: phf: there's bad economic technology at the root of the rotten tree of computing, is my meandering rant
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 23:30 phf: funny how a lot of these ideas have been explored, grokked and then promptly not accepted
trinque: I don't lament that there isn't some opensource naggum editor out there; I lament that I can't spend 20k or w/e and buy an actual computer
trinque: I could see myself sharing technology with someone if I see that it benefits me in some way, or at large if it has some strategic benefit to me, and not otherwise in service to a philosophical code
trinque: my reaction to GPL earlier has to do with that. we're all lamenting the wreckage, and wasn't it precisely that too many morons got involved in the craft?
trinque: phf: isn't the reason he didn't that he was that car without fuel?
phf: and even if the kommuniti picked it up and fucked it up we could've still had a "tmsr version -- last naggum release" baseline or whatever
phf: if naggum wrote his emacs, or at the very least started one, then i wouldn't be necessarily stuck without a text editor i could trust or work with (hemlock being a particularly bad implementation, and emacs corrupted beyond redemption, etc)
phf: asciilifeform: but to get back to my point, the fact that local-time as implemented by kommmuniti is shit doesn't have to affect ~me~. i know what the right way (or a better one) of doing things is, but if naggum didn't write his paper, i wouldn't. i thought that's kind of the WoT approach
phf: amusingly enough java, via joda-time, is one of the few solutions that get it right
phf: amusingly where the underlying technology is super solid (because specced out by naggum) interface implementation is piece of shit, because written by kommmunitee
adlai: the number of bitcoin exchanges that give human-readable timestamps in API calls (because all API calls are done by hand and read by eye, right!?) is too damn high
adlai: the unixification of common lisp is glorious to behold, like galaxies colliding
adlai: but then it wouldn't be unix enough!
phf: correct, but if it's timestamp then reader ~must~ fail on missing times, timezones
adlai: yeah, the abstraction would better be called "timestamp"
phf: well, there was a bunch of things, so i'm just going to hand waive it, but one major issue is that it doesn't actually have a date, time, datetime separation
adlai: CLM (DLed from https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/clm/ ) does not compile due to package definitions in wrong files... the joys of bitrot
phf: for example naggum specced out "LOCAL-TIME" concept in his "long painful history of time" paper, and it's an excellent solution. per your argument it's true that the actual communal implementation of local-time is a piece of shit. (if you've never read it, it's really horrible)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-30#1493744 << i think of these projects in the same terms i think of "knowledge" in general. same way as there's no abstract scientific knowledge that's somehow "accessible" to "society", there isn't universal good value to naggum's emacs, but there would've been value in naggum's ~to me~ as a kind of abstract node in what i'm hoping is a graph of sane people. same way as "scientific knowledge" is only a kind of comm
phf: (actually news and display postscript are not the same technology, but same idea)
phf: or common lisp music which is a subset of common lisp to describe a wavelength generation/transformation/composition (i'm pretty sure it was used to do first computer FM synthesis)
phf: for example NeWS was gui system that did exactly what asciilifeform described, using what they called display postscript