thestringpuller: SOAPUI gets the correct response, postman causes 500 error
thestringpuller: so i copy a raw http request from soapui, i put it into the raw section of postman
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:22 mats: oh wait, these are fictional huh
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506525 << it's not fiction, the facts are sourced, the interpretation that bey puts on them is his own though and i feel like he often stretches it to keep the narrative consistent with the "utopias" part of his premise
phf: i think i might've had a cyrillic keyboard at some point. fwiw they are usually dual labeled, e.g. on Q you're also going to have a smaller Й somewhere on the side
mircea_popescu: it's also a large part of why i even bother with trilema, otherwise i could just put up a page consisting of http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/penis.jpg
asciilifeform: (nobody ever beat these for chem)
asciilifeform: sometimes - plastic motherfucking models.
mircea_popescu: it's the fundamental reason "correspondence" even exists as a thing in science.
mircea_popescu: and, to all unstubborn engineers and others present : when encountering a difficult problem, do try and EXPLAIN IT. in writing.
asciilifeform: 'the data' is not strictly defined, nor the instrument with which to look productively - raster display, or teletype, or play it through the sound card (i sometimes do...)
mircea_popescu: what i said was that a) ultimately all data is in point of fact data, and unless you're fucking around you will wish to look at the data ; b) that "Saving time" is only useful to people in a hurry ; and people thinking are seldomly in a hurry. rather than play with a desk weight while i try to comprehend x item, i might as well longhand its structure.
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu's assertion that 'you ought to take the benzyl ring and look at the bits of the jpeg'
asciilifeform: PeterL: the zoom levels item.
asciilifeform: discussing idempotence of the parts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> if you heat the thing to 5000K and they come out << dude... gohead cancer to 500k. wtf is with you.
asciilifeform: they are not different, just emplaced differently.
asciilifeform: the idempotence of items like electron is whole basis of chemistry.
asciilifeform: so they are same.
asciilifeform: if you heat the thing to 5000K and they come out, they will be same as any other proton.
PeterL: OK, but still, there are differing protons. Not all are the same, just like not all keys on the keyboard are the same, is that the metaphor you were going for?
asciilifeform: PeterL: most orc folk use transliteratrons of one kind or another.
mircea_popescu: the world was built on logos. deal with it.
asciilifeform: rather than at protons of cancer cell, because you get the notion that they differ from regular protons in your garden.
asciilifeform: you will look at the ~relevant~ zoom level.
mircea_popescu: you WILL look at the fucking bit values
mircea_popescu: obviously, if you'e looking at a picture of snatch, catlols etc, best to scroll through. if you are trying to decide if there is or is not a nuclear base there ; a cancer cell there, etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am willing to state that the reason nobody discovered anything interesting since the 90s or so is because they haven't.
asciilifeform: PeterL: you may have missed mega-thread earlier , where mircea_popescu suggested that the pictures are unnecessary because the textual representation is possible.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you wilfully ignore the benefit this exercise has for thinking.
PeterL: its like trying to see a picture by looking at the bit values, works better if you have a program draw it out for you
PeterL: I only use it by drawing the structure and having it generate the SMILES, which can be, E.G. pasted into another program
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1507007 << are you familliar with the SMILES system of notation?
mircea_popescu: i'd rather use hoare - hor if forced to do something with it.
mircea_popescu: how do i humorously say "male whore" as in, "curv", which is the never-seen but PERFECTLY GRAMMATICAL masculine of curva, whore ?
mircea_popescu: part of the problem is obviously that english is a language spoken by idiots, and it shows. but this isn't a large part and certainly not the largest part - i was doing the same thing in romanian. arguably much worse - people don't realise romanian is ALSO mostly spoken by idiots.
mircea_popescu: drives people up the walls.
mircea_popescu: trinque anyway, trilema is a foremost example of "i have my set of defintions and you likely don't know what they are ; nor will likely figure it out through a whole article - shit's too fine."
asciilifeform: it is not the sword from norse saga, won't fight by itself.
mircea_popescu: which is by itself an achievement which dwarfs the accomplishments of the entire current genewration of anthropologists and kinda takes my breath away.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know ? it's actuallty much huger than originally realised ; v is actually a model of knowledge in the general sense.
asciilifeform: trinque: no redefinitions involved. i run'em. what's the problem.
mircea_popescu: of neither kind.
mircea_popescu: trinque the thing is that you're perfectly allowed to use your own, consistent definitions, even if they may contradict "the common sense" ; provided that a) they are consistent ~and stable enough so as not to change by context~ and b) you're capable of expliciting them on request and this will not contradict previous construction. ie - you may have any graph you wish (chiefly because anyone does anyway, "community consensus"
trinque: worth probably also giving n00bs the holy truth beating and leaving redefining english to shakespeare
trinque: nothing wrong with that; I was saying the same yesterday
shinohai: Kind of imagined you meant plural of viruses there.
trinque: there's a pragmatic distinction here between "this is a statement of holy truth" and "this shovel is currently doubling as guillotine in a pinch"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 15:43 phf: so i push back on the guy, rme says "let's change subject", within minutes guy goes "it's late here i gotta go to sleep"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, they keep thinking "mp has one suit", so why not.
asciilifeform: shinohai: malware in the general case.
asciilifeform: incidentally i might not even ~know~ all of the assumptions which some luser somewhere might read into the text. mircea_popescu reminds me that most of'em probably think 'he has 1 computer, and 1 lan'
mircea_popescu: check out all the unexpected trouble one can stir up out of entirely left field dao.
asciilifeform: (why? nfi, maybe they are in jail)
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to do this like i do it on trilema ; but it's another to do it in the face of contention.
mircea_popescu: which is culpable, seeing how the entire argument there hinged on the definition of number 2.
mircea_popescu: well no, but your assumption that you making a general statement will be taken as made rather than modified ad-hoc is not only unwarranted, but actually contrary to your declared preference.
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm not the one sprouting spurious absolutes, which is why i'm not the one with this problem. what picture.
asciilifeform: i have nfi what, then, is a niche.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in dispute is not the ownership part, but the niche part. it's not a niche!
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 15:48 phf: well, they don't realize anything changed. decade ago a newbie was younger version of you, today with some chance a newbie might still be a younger version of you, but much more likely it's a person who never knew you had to wash hands after bathroom there purely to turn everything that you've built to shit
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1507141 << this "newbie was an earlier version of you" never fucking happened in reality. it was just the fashionable hash for the pipe the wikipedia-generation idiots were smoking.
asciilifeform: ida is the example of 'sole inhabitant of niche'
trinque: runs great on wine too; I ran it there longer than on winderz
mircea_popescu: for as long as this "music library" thing was a thing, winamp was the thing for it.
asciilifeform: ida is ~the~ example
mircea_popescu: winamp is prolly the best example of niche owner.
asciilifeform: then again he probably has a vax also.
mircea_popescu: one of my secret lulz, for all the extra holes apple gets in here, nobody goes "stfu winamp"
mircea_popescu: the space between not getting laid and noticing you're not getting laid is short. the space from the noticing to the fixing however...
phf: there was a pleasant notion of ownership with xmms, your playlist becomes an organic thing with a state, with most listened artists at the top, sequences organically created that align with your personal feel for harmony, etc. without bringing that whole aspy ocd file management into the equation. can't really do it with cli.
asciilifeform: just as you cannot have a theatre that is also a dairy farm
asciilifeform: its continuation as whatever going concern is incompatible with their presence
asciilifeform: the muppets who 'i Just Want just like itunes...' must be expelled from civilized computing.
phf: it's kind of funny that xmms got "replaced" with various itunes clones. i had at various points a very large partially pirated, partially salvaged, partially ripped collection of music and i'm convinced that there's nothing better than an fs level folder structure for managing music.
asciilifeform: or 1,001 other once-commonplace breads and butters of linux world
asciilifeform: or consider the contortions you must go through, to build geda
phf: well, they don't realize anything changed. decade ago a newbie was younger version of you, today with some chance a newbie might still be a younger version of you, but much more likely it's a person who never knew you had to wash hands after bathroom there purely to turn everything that you've built to shit
asciilifeform: count, merely, the software packages that CANNOT BE USED today, that worked fine decade ago
phf: perhaps they don't see it as an existential threat
phf: so i push back on the guy, rme says "let's change subject", within minutes guy goes "it's late here i gotta go to sleep"
phf: i saw one of those operators in action yesterday, rme of clozure cl is doing "open office hours" on irc, and They come. "why are you using ccldoc instead of BIG PACKAGE NAME??? i want to change docs to BIG PACKAGE NAME for increased adoption" "why are there stale useless files? i want to remove them to improve maintainability" etc.
asciilifeform: 'to examine a granfalloon, remove the skin of a toy balloon' (tm) (r) (vonnegut)
asciilifeform: as in, it NEVER had the slightest legitimate reason to exist.
asciilifeform: often there is ~whole project~ which consists of gendercommit.
asciilifeform: recall the 'flycheck' thread ?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506567 << i've been going through that exercise with code recently, where the original developer abandoned the project and there's a new maintainer. the exercise is to see how much of it is gendered pronouns. not surprisingly in many cases for every 1 bug fixed, there's a dozen entirely inconsequential commits. file shuffles, renames, code removals, README copyright updates, that sort of stuff. it's like nobody's
mircea_popescu: damn, i thought it was the black knight always triumphs.
asciilifeform: by not firing the control shot, dao raper allowed mit to close own hole.
mircea_popescu: who in his right mind would close a hole in teh mit budget ? by all means, let them succeed and keep on succeeding, like they've won the war in the middle east.
asciilifeform: i suppose we can add it to the very very long list of items which are supposedly 'dead' but continue to live, spraying out ecological poison left and right that will take eons to clean up
asciilifeform: why bother with the etherape thing only to release the mouse, still alive and well, from the mousetrap later ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh what do i care what they do. the idea here is "o look, a scamcoin nobody holds managed to hardfork. this is about as relevant to bitcoin as guy soiling his pants and then washing them in the sink. I AM ROVER GER AND I THINK ITS TIME FOR BITCOIN TO! "
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody no one ? not even on the battleship mircea_popescurora ?
deedbot: https://twitter.com/thedailydecrypt << The Daily Decrypt (@TheDailyDecrypt) | Twitter | http://cointelegraph.com/authors/amanda_b._johnson << Amanda B. Johnson | https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/amanda-billyrock-is-amanda-b-johnson-of-the-daily-decrypt-t6027.html << Re: Amanda Billyrock is Amanda B. Johnson of The Daily Decrypt
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i used to read amanda b johnson. But she is more for the children I think.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well no one bothered to actually hold any of the tokens, either, so...
phf: Framedragger: re ipython you could probably avoid all the discussions about right and wrong by simply doing and then presenting the result
thestringpuller: Never though Ethereum would become more scandalous than paycoin.
asciilifeform: no one bothered to set off 'difficulty bomb' ? etc
asciilifeform: they fired already ?
asciilifeform: ty thestringpuller .
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: again, if you ~mention~ a thing that is happening solely on reddit, it is just the same as linking
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i don't like posting reddit links as not to infect the channel
asciilifeform: (if mircea_popescu dun feel like doing this experiment, perhaps another mechanically-literate fella ? ben_vulpes ?)
asciilifeform: but i would like to read the essay first
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: please don't assume that folks read reddit unprompted. i don't
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: link ?
asciilifeform: he will pull the ubiquitous drawing once he realizes what you described.
mircea_popescu: for the sake of why not, i will.
mircea_popescu: all the machining i ever had done was presented in essay form.
asciilifeform: they are here.
mircea_popescu: i do not want them. nobody does.
mircea_popescu: but then again stop fucking pushingyour doodles on other people. they are the exact equivalent of used condoms.
asciilifeform: there is a reason why most folks play chess with a board vs with telephone
mircea_popescu: it may not be the most convenient format for doodling,
asciilifeform: but this is NOT the most convenient format for ~editing~ (transforming, etc) the thing.
mircea_popescu: and if you don't, i'm not underwriting the eventual wreck.
asciilifeform: this is not actually hard to do if you have the item in your head.
mircea_popescu: but the point is : literacy is a skill not a blessing. does this architect know how to present the tree IN PROPERLY SORTED ORDER ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu should have asked 'tell it to the builders instead of showing paper'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i used to pick architects by the criterion : "nice plan, now tell it to me".
asciilifeform: chemistry-in-words makes about the same amount of sense as cad in words.
asciilifeform: y'know, the buggers actually ARE 3d (arguably 3.5d) ~physical objects~
mircea_popescu: and i knew i failed within minutes specifiucally because not using the fucking pictures.
asciilifeform: of an item that wasn't in the book
mircea_popescu: ad hoc nonsense, but to illustrate the point.
mircea_popescu: "from organic chemistry take an item that is with carbons linked like so, where * can be anything ie free radical and = at the end links back to origin"
asciilifeform: has mircea_popescu ever actually done an organic synthesis ? in anger ?
mircea_popescu: i find that especially in organic chemistry the drawings are counterproductive.
asciilifeform: what's the / do ?
asciilifeform: (incidentally does mircea_popescu do his organic chem without filthy heathen 2d drawings ? as words ? )
asciilifeform: (most weren't, simply ignored the news)
asciilifeform: textbooks, i shit thee not, had to be junked
asciilifeform: before laughing, consider, iupac gold standard program HUNG when fed chiralane for the first time.
mircea_popescu: i have no problem with the author replacing iupac.
asciilifeform: will mircea_popescu barf when a boojum turns up in the massive iupac rule set this imports ?
asciilifeform: see, if i can't ~paste~ the equation from the viewer into my algebratron, and evaluate it, the system is broken.
asciilifeform: (machine w/out the plugin is painful to use if you ever try to copy/paste, you end up getting bitmaps)
asciilifeform: yes but iirc they get generated.
mircea_popescu: they import images.
asciilifeform: they seem to have something like it
asciilifeform: how does the thing on pediwikia work ?
mircea_popescu: so i guess you can have a fat 8 lines of buttons in the mp-wp thing ; and i'll continue to type tags in directly.
asciilifeform: the only proggy i've ever encountered which did.
asciilifeform: it will actually crap out translit when you hit f3 ('view file') if the terminal doesn't have cyrillic.
asciilifeform: would mircea_popescu also say that machine should transliterate the greek texts for you ?
mircea_popescu: make the machine make it.
asciilifeform: sorta what literacy means - to have the huffman table in your head.
mircea_popescu: much like kids or bureaucrats aren't to be allowed to decide how to measure their performance.
asciilifeform: i can say. and, if it isn't likely to be in the reader's huffman dictionary already - do say.
mircea_popescu: the criteria is any notation i choose, not any notation you choose.
asciilifeform: which means, yes, integral signs, matrices, tensors, whatever notation i define ~for the occasion~ even.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fits-in-head means that i get to huffmanize TO THE MAX
mircea_popescu: 3 yos point "dat!!!" but 5yo is expected to be able to say "the item resting atop the history of fucking in the roman empire please, what is it?"
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what your parents did to you people, but this is unseemly. first fucking task of the urchin in an intellectual household is to learn how to put his shit in words.
asciilifeform: i sorta wonder how mircea_popescu draws the line at 'this much notation is enough.' i.e., why he does not demand that phuctor stats be spelled out in whole words rather than using arabic digits.
mircea_popescu: you can see logs all you fucking want, they're all WORDS.
mircea_popescu: omfg what the fuck do you think "fits in head" means.
asciilifeform: do we have to do the mega-thread again?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you want to publish something you can't say in words you're part of the problem.
mircea_popescu: and ftr, auto-repl is for the dogs. i want proper repl : string evaluated when I say, either by clicking the preview button or typing enter or w/e.
asciilifeform: go and represent the duplicated-sshkeys thing in.. words.
mircea_popescu: i have no problem with typing ::sum:: either or w/e
mircea_popescu: i don't want any guy at all. even now i <em> by hand rather than clicking the fucking buttons
asciilifeform: i thought the idea was 'sane gui'
asciilifeform: and the browser.
mircea_popescu: also, the idea isn't to "realtime" ; the idea is to take user input and spit out html i think
asciilifeform: human typesetters ~had~ to be expelled from mathematics.
mircea_popescu: i'd think the 2nd item is more relevant here/
asciilifeform: arms of the Macintosh II. With the toolbox under AUX, all the windowy programs on the MacII will have a clear, understable, and universal user interface. With other alternatives, we face the very real prospect of each window (program) having a different user interface. That, friends, will be the death of UNIX. '
asciilifeform: 'Fri, 5 Feb 88... The astonishing baroqueness of X is the greatest threat to the general sucess of UNIX to have come along since System V hit the streets. If you try to give an X system to a real human being, not a computer hacker masquerading as a normal person, they will croak. If X doesn't instantly burn out their eyes and brain, causing them to throw their UNIX box out the nearest high window, it will drive them straight into the
asciilifeform: the simpler, braindead x11, survived.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1506906 << the funny thing is, this was made, in 1980s, at considerable expense, it was called 'NeWS'
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 12:23 mircea_popescu: every computer (well, except for windows and apple i guess ? but they're not computers) has a repl built in as some sort of bash. in most cases you also have both perl and python out of the box. how could it possibly be faster to first upload a chunk of data to some webserver somewhere ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1506889 << he wanted a repl that can shit graphics. which is something that to this very day is ~monopoly of a gargantuan closed commercial item, 'mathematica'. except that most 'i want a graphical repl' folks don't know this, and think that their imitations (which are roughly what glbse was to mpex) are the real thing.
asciilifeform: (iirc he did, right before the jail)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 09:33 thestringpuller: charlie shrem is out of jail
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 10:53 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505364 << okay; but deciding not to use $tool because it's used by $enemy bloody well sounds like one to me. sure, you can call this a set of (very) useful heuristics. but if this sophistry is accepted, then any ideology is a set of heuristics (usually but not always very bad ones, but the latter is a separate point). ftr though, i'm not saying that sometimes there aren't goo
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1506885 << Framedragger point to actual instance of this ? in the logz ?
asciilifeform: '“I vote Trump! free Internet”. Approximately 1.6 Gb's of data was exposed, with the report stating that 68.3% of users had their identities or other sensitive information exposed upon connection. Nearly 25% of the users browsed porn sites, while only a little over 5% used the connections to play Pokemon Go' << such brilliance!111
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: not to mention that you almost always also have, or can easily get a db, and after an import you can then sql repl.
mircea_popescu: every computer (well, except for windows and apple i guess ? but they're not computers) has a repl built in as some sort of bash. in most cases you also have both perl and python out of the box. how could it possibly be faster to first upload a chunk of data to some webserver somewhere ?
Framedragger: hing like the devil avoids the cross; e.g. the recent chinese wifi shit discussion; *any mobile ever, in existence*; etc. :)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 12:17 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-17#1504193 << there is no $ideology per se ; tmsr is principally characterized by lack of ideology. everyone else has one, however, and they're often patently insane and amazingly complex.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505364 << okay; but deciding not to use $tool because it's used by $enemy bloody well sounds like one to me. sure, you can call this a set of (very) useful heuristics. but if this sophistry is accepted, then any ideology is a set of heuristics (usually but not always very bad ones, but the latter is a separate point). ftr though, i'm not saying that sometimes there aren't good reasons for avoiding somet
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506544 << i've a $10 vps, no complaints, i did the initial ipv4 probing off of that. didn't run any i/o etc benchmarks tho. any particular questions (i can run some benchmark if you want)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506153 << what's the advantage i dun get it ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 09:33 thestringpuller: charlie shrem is out of jail
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1506875 <<< maybe he can show Roger Ver all the new tricks he learned in the Pen, give him first reacharound
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The actual unemployment rate in the USA. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/20/the-actual-unemployment-rate-in-the-usa/
ben_vulpes waves to the forever-tarnished robert viragh
asciilifeform: i tried, failed, had to ask for whole thing to be thermonuked and reformatted.
ben_vulpes: `http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1506634 << incidentally, renders servers nigh-unusable for other purposes.
asciilifeform: as with the earlier ninjaimbecile
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the choicest lulz were in pm
BingoBoingo: $s the_scourge
mats: what are these? 0.4 * 10.5 * 8 * 320
mircea_popescu: the majority of the us population is not currently employed ; nor has any prospects of ever being employed.
mircea_popescu: to obtain correct unemployment figure in these circumstances, do (count of all tax returns paying more than 0.4 * 10.5 * 8 * 320 in tax) / (us population as per census).
asciilifeform: because their count as 'retiree'
asciilifeform: quite likely not 1 in 10 laid off folk, ever appear in the 'unemployed' column.
asciilifeform: mats: one obvious example - a great many folks never figure in the score at all, because they are 'contractor'
mircea_popescu: nowadays "unemployed" = "number of people who jump through X Y and Z hoops more recently than 2 weeks ago and for not a longer total interval than 11 weeks , and also who aren't in any of these 58 excluded categories. such as "white"."
mircea_popescu: i suppose look into how the data is defined and collected one day when run out of other online entertainment.
mats: beyond the confusion of unemployed and folks who've given up - can you elaborate?
asciilifeform: they have ~0 connection to reality.
mircea_popescu: but as it is, entirely meaningless to put those on same map, they're not in any sense the same thing
mircea_popescu: mats if that figure wasn't coming straight out of an ass, the table might be more interesting.
asciilifeform: that involves, e.g., ~random fire from small-caliber pea shooters, rather than, say, blown bridges
mircea_popescu: not even clear wtf they're optimizing for.
asciilifeform: nobody optimized for bodies, or they would torch crowded clubs etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 00:47 mats: if it was easy, folks would go there instead of massacring cinemagoers
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1506724 << this is kinda dubious. note that people light up gay bars and cineplexes rather than geriatric homes, etc. if they actually wanted maximal body count they'd do the local hospital, but they're not exactly being rational.
asciilifeform: they didn't need to.
asciilifeform: or the one prior ?
asciilifeform: or the last one ?
asciilifeform: mats: http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/johnson/rnimparticles.htm << which of these is the current monkey not guilty of ?
asciilifeform: it is a theatrical number, intended to goad would-be 'shoe bomb hopefuls' to the dead end of flying toys from toystore
mircea_popescu: this is just about the most self-flattering nonsense ever, but hey.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 00:34 asciilifeform: i will note that usg ~is~ sufficiently frightened of toy flying machines, that they were entirely banned in washington d.c.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1506693 << this is more a case of independent powerful career woman hear me roar being petrified someone cares enough to photograph her in the shower.