phf: i'd be envious, but after all the other argentina reports, i don't trust that experience to be any good
phf: "My husband is my best friend. When I take off all of these “hats”, my most important job is being a mom. We have three kids who are terrific people."
phf: "The Women’s Entrepreneurs Festival"
mircea_popescu: he's the wife of the woman that thinks http://gothamgal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/oysters-450x600.jpg some peak of elegance. notwithstanding the ax-hewn cutlery.
hanbot: who the fuck is fred wilson?!
mircea_popescu: and in other news, wifebeater breakfast. http://66.media.tumblr.com/5087aeddb007112f656fa399c5f6992d/tumblr_nkg8290G741tt1lr0o1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: and speaking of berger singerman, check out the urgent associate : http://www.bergersingerman.com/people/nicole-s-sohn
interviewee: i am probably unpopular but i put somethign like this out there once and caught some shit for it
shinohai: "mauve has the most ram"
interviewee: my boys with Bitcoin Uncensored just did a podcast with some VC guy who was remarkably honest in saying he doesnt know what a Blockchain is and just shills them b/c investors were told to buy them.
mircea_popescu: you should have seen the 2010-2011 interations of pointless&witless in action
interviewee: because the hype cycle spins
shinohai: Good to see people that understand what utter shit these platforms are though.
interviewee: and as long as people are going to play with these platforms, they might as well not shit it up like the Dao.
interviewee: well, i'm around and happy to join you gents/ladies if other similar issues crop up, so Shinohai, don't be shy if you want to bend my ear.
interviewee: shit. i guess i'm not on their xmas card list.
interviewee: greed gets the best of em
interviewee: he had hsi office across the street
mircea_popescu: guy was pretty epic, in fairness. teh roger stone quotes, nov vs july 2009 totally make the pie.
interviewee: in the billions
mircea_popescu: something like in "war of the roses" :p
interviewee: if you have a party fighting (like one i am involved with atm) then its a mess
interviewee: so the speed in whcih you can liquidate varies based on a number of factors
shinohai: all without the benefit of flaming tires in a shitpit.
mircea_popescu: anyway - since crypto governance interests you : bitbet was a reasonably productive bitcoin crop that split up over disputes inside management, was declared insolvent, had syndic appointed, was liquidated and the whole process was closed. it was a) an ad-hoc process and b) done within 6 weeks.
mircea_popescu: yeah, get a blog, it's the smart move.
interviewee: and trying to work on some materials that will be used to guide businesses that want to play with smart contracts to keep them from blowing their own heads off DaoStyle
mircea_popescu is curious what mr hinkes will think once he gets through the logs to the bitbet receivership process.
interviewee: i'm doing some more of the conferences to try to teach peopel to not make dao messes again
interviewee: i'm trying to continue to learn, watch the fireworks, and help out where i can.
mircea_popescu: heh. bitcoin is going to the following place : i'll be electing the us president long after nobody remembers what an us dollar used to be.
mircea_popescu: their mistaken politico hope that "it'll end bitcoin" will require blood to wash off.
mircea_popescu: if they paid attention when they should have they'd have busted pirate when i said to in 2012, not waited for years on the case.
mircea_popescu: so far i'm just pointing and laughing at the sec.
interviewee: sure, if you have standing to bring them
mircea_popescu: oh, right, there's also a whole pile of claims re insider trading, manipulation etc over the "price" of "ethereum" at kraken and poloniex.
interviewee: since the right are unsettled
interviewee: including that there would be efforts to roll back
interviewee: and guessed right about many of the things that would or would not happen
interviewee: so, i gave a talk about this at NYU 3 days before the exploiter did his/her/their thing
interviewee: conversion = civil version of theft
interviewee: there is no govt actor using police power to enforce like the fancy colored linen i used to buy my coffee this am
mircea_popescu: anyway. there is no such thing as "actual rights" here, nor even as much as title. nobody has title to any cryptocurrency.
BingoBoingo: If the restaurant offered grant money to people selling charcoal chain mebbe?
mircea_popescu: but this is not a restaurant. if you decide to break into the democratic convention while sitting in nixon's white house, guess what.
interviewee: if you sign a contract for delivery of 50 tons of charcoal while sitting at the restaurant and the other party breaches 2 years later, you think you have a claim against the restaurant?
shinohai: of course they didn't, fork chain so this never, ever happened
interviewee: vitalik & crew built it there?
interviewee: Rule 11- can't just sling shit and hope for the best
mircea_popescu: not going to. the factual matter will have to be established somehow. you allege they did, they allege they didn't. so it's a dispute.
mircea_popescu: they decided.
mircea_popescu: the allegation has to be established by trier of fact, ie, jury.
mircea_popescu: tortious interference. they provided the office space where the decision was made and allegedly "forced the participants to decide"
interviewee: ok, perhaps i am as naive as shinohai suggests, but where's the claim against MIT?
mircea_popescu: there is no gatekeeper. damages are jury awards.
interviewee: you have to remember the gatekeeper here is likely to be a +60yr old conservative christian white male
mircea_popescu: and if mit doesn't distance itself from it post haste, it's definitely open to a tort, which... you know, judge awards a billion, of which 0.1% mit's responsibility. so they have TO PAY THRE WHOLE BILLION
mircea_popescu: ~anyone holding as much as a farthing "worth" of ethereum presently has overhead the possible claim here discussed, with its treble damages and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: interviewee which is the point.
mircea_popescu: shinohai this means that the derps are in the worst case of all : all the damage of their "hard fork" is now baked in but nevertheless none of the things they hoped it would achieve were achieved.
interviewee: the collateral damage tot he platform caused by a public suit would be breathtaking
mircea_popescu: no argument there. all i'm saying is that even if the latter were ordered, it'd still not work.
interviewee: from my analysis of the toolbox available to lawyers, it is much easier to get a judgment and levy on conventional assets than to try to compel actors to change code.
mircea_popescu: ie, even if the judge orders "to reverse the fork" the only practical implementation is a liquidation in cash.
interviewee: so you want cash damages not to reverse the fork
mircea_popescu: interviewee you can't be this naive. "a blockchain" ? you sue mit, the hedge fund.
mircea_popescu: they've got money.
interviewee: then entirely plausible that permitted action provides title
interviewee: the point is this
interviewee: so, back to the analysis
mircea_popescu: interviewee the question to you is still, concretely, which lawyer are you ? otherwise the situation here is indistinguishable from "bored redditor clicked a webirc link"
interviewee: i enjoyed your blog that you pushed out right after the attack.
mircea_popescu: financially, it's toxic, for this reason. nobody sane will get involved in it, which is the point.
interviewee: there are repeated express disclaimers of contract rights/creation
mircea_popescu: the actual legal standing is not established. it's one of those things that are a huge pile of nonsense a judge will have to cut through.
shinohai: hypothetically of course
interviewee: complicating this of course is the fact that an investor/DaoT holder could actually buy in without seeing any of those disclaimers b/c the buy in was actually just a ETH transaction
interviewee: and who was authorized to discllaim for TheDao
interviewee: whcih of course was ambigiuous as to its ownership for a while- so it was unclear what "disclaimers" actually came from "TheDao"
interviewee: you have the readme.md file in the git for the slockit code that had all sorts of interesting/strange declarations/disclaimers
interviewee: you have the comments in the actual .sol files as to warranties and incorp. of the gnu license
interviewee: however, flying in the face of that declaration were layer after layer of lawyer language
interviewee: as to your q, TheDao was evidently premised as code = law
interviewee: 4. if we accept the law is code premise, then is what the exploiter did actually a violation of any others' rights?
interviewee: 3. if no contract and no "ownership" then can anyone get anything usign the legal system?
shinohai: hasn't it been established that the dao *didn't specifically prohibit this behavior* ?
interviewee: 2. if there is no contract relationship, is there any conventionally recognized "ownership" right to any of the ETH/DAOt out there
interviewee: 1. is there any contract relationship and if so, what does it say everyone can and can't do?
interviewee: there are 3 or 4 analytic inflection points here
interviewee: (caveat- i do US law only, because i don't know any other legal system)
interviewee: when determining whether any party has the ability to invoke the power of the legal system to determine a dispute, you must first determine the party's respective legal rights
interviewee: here's the analysis
deedbot: [Trilema] Fred Wilson is an idiot, and other things - http://trilema.com/2016/fred-wilson-is-an-idiot-and-other-things/
a111: Logged on 2016-07-22 15:07 asciilifeform: i dun even grasp the appeal of pr0n with cocks in it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-22#1508816 << only now it dawns on me you prolly meant the fingretrapped chick ? how the fuck are you going to judge her performance without the cock stuffing ? it's like proposing to buy a car in a closed bag wtf. you do go for drive tests neh ? same thing here, the fucking point is that random derp can't fingertrap worth a shit.
mircea_popescu: in other news, did bitgo just suffer a breach ?
mod6: i've got a few irons in the fire currently... but let's revisit this in a week or two after I get some more work done with the build stuff.
mircea_popescu: you still have the bitotter thing ?
mod6: i miss the ticker
mircea_popescu: in other "vc powered securitits" lulz : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJVwSrzOUlE wants you to sign into shittle to "confirm your age". https://www.youtube.com/v/yJVwSrzOUlE does not.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-22 23:38 BingoBoingo: theft of course referring to the forking which was a theft from legitimate DAO contract DAO'er
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-22#1508921 <<< miami lawyer guy may show up in chat in the morning to poke
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/BrVvd << teh "vc" derps found their sty and are self-reportedly happy.
BingoBoingo: theft of course referring to the forking which was a theft from legitimate DAO contract DAO'er
BingoBoingo: Anyways the greatest lulz of the etherum fork business is that really it seems like they softforked theft, not hardforked
mircea_popescu: how the fuck do they do it, it's like the luser is wired, genetically predisposed to luserdom.
shinohai: u there?
mircea_popescu: in other news, peeled bitter orange (proper peeled, everything off, harem style) in an old fashioned glass, covered with vermouth.
mircea_popescu: and in other ornithological references for shinohai , http://67.media.tumblr.com/7fe98f72db7911383ba81b3ddf863e7b/tumblr_nhg4rorKGe1s0h0cio1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: this may be the best thing written in that language that year ; and possibly the hardest thing to translate from trilema. notwithstanding that it's not even found there.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: anywya. not teh end of the world.
asciilifeform: when generating it, i had the figure cached in head from 1990s, '2048, slow but strong!111'
mircea_popescu: ahgahaha seriously, they want 2kb keys ?
asciilifeform: lel seems like danielpbarron's pig did not enjoy the fucking any more than mine
asciilifeform: even if there were no convenient explanation served on a silver plate.
asciilifeform: i can't speak for others, but if in 2012 someone had shown me a suspected cracking of rsa key in the wild, i would have squeezed stones until i learned how it was done
asciilifeform: there is a faq
mircea_popescu: think of the consumer like it were a woman - you don't just go plug her, right ?
mircea_popescu: well, alternatively could have had article explaining things rather than just bareback link to data
mircea_popescu: gotta start ; then gotta keep going. through which process one achieves the bookwriting.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell gabriel_radio http://trilema.com/2011/imi-cer-scuze-dar-mi-am-uitat/ there you go, try that :D
asciilifeform: 'For custom block pages where the more information link is not available, edit the URL in the address bar to access the hidden view source information. For example, you will see an URL similar to the following for all your custom block pages. http://<ipaddress>:15871/cgi-bin/blockpage.cgi?ws-session=687865868 '
asciilifeform: http://www.websense.com/support/article/kbarticle/How-Can-I-Get-More-Information-About-My-Policy-From-the-Block-Page << done.
asciilifeform: now granted i cannot prove that 'blockpage.cgi' is their censorware monkey's panel...
asciilifeform: there is almost enough material for article just in above.
asciilifeform: dropped it also in the other major heathen pit, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12144168 .
asciilifeform: in other 'news', let's a quick experiment: https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/4u3car/we_scan_whole_ipv4_space_and_publicly_break_weak << does the unhappenatron still have unhappenatronium fuel rods left ? or not.
mircea_popescu: ftr, there's a tv franchise called "sit down, shut up". it never caught on.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather fuck dudes.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-22#1508808 << if you don't like scylla, you can always go die from charybdis - bite the bullet and only fuck the maths dept chix, even though their makeup is wrong etc.
Sinclair6: just in the process of booting up my systems after a thunder and lighting storm
mircea_popescu: srsly, they had this. "womenz compete to win wedding and plastic surgery"
deedbot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridalplasty << Bridalplasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gR2s6G_-3c << Bridalplasty Episode 1 (Part 1/4) - YouTube | http://www.ew.com/article/2010/11/28/bridalplasty-series-premiere-recap << 'Bridalplasty': 15 Things That Made Me Die Inside | EW.com
mircea_popescu: but all this aside, the "reality tv" put a half dozen 20yos in a house and film the drama bs made a billion easy.
mircea_popescu: okthen.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform adding that to your anal illustrative inclination, i get the idea maybe you should try it!
asciilifeform: i dun even grasp the appeal of pr0n with cocks in it.
mircea_popescu: now, i never understood the appeal of dressing cows in "business suits" and pretending like they're speaking when they moo. but then again i'm not in the business of running the us empire of pretense.
asciilifeform: i suppose i'm roughly in the position of the quasi-deaf artillerist who goes to a mozart concerto.
shinohai: lol i am just now seeing where someone sent 38k ETH to the dao
mircea_popescu: point in case : http://67.media.tumblr.com/6b3c86cf8995a714a1271f8a05d0f330/tumblr_nldoi2Hklx1uox454o1_500.gif << she, and ANY OTHER ONE LIKE HER, could blather endlessly about nonsense, just as well quality wise as ANY us female professor of nonsense. nevertheless, NO us female professor of nonsense could do that scene. maybe if she can afford to pay me a million to train her for eighteen weeks. but even then it's dubious.
mircea_popescu: people who have contact with a lot of them break through the "o, she's an idiot, how endearing" phase of single-mating-male and become deeply irritated by even a faint hint of the well described idiocies. think of it much like how immune cascade/anaphilactic shock works.
mircea_popescu: at the time sets cost ~2k per model.
mircea_popescu: well you wouldn't do all sorts of things, principally because and since you'rfe not in the business of doing them.
mircea_popescu: you house them in conditions slightly better than they house themselves, which is 6 heads to the 3room apt.
mircea_popescu: bout a hundred per head. you don't house them solo.
mircea_popescu: at the time (mid 90s, ro) it wasn't in any sense overpriced.
mircea_popescu: then it got mainstreamized into "reality tv" or someshit, a whole franchise.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-22 14:30 asciilifeform: 'FIG. 4 provides the solution to the problem of homelessness by providing free housing or low cost housing to anyone who wants it. Free houses are given away or loaned subject to certain Terms and Conditions. For example, the houses have surveillance and safety systems built in, and the Terms and Conditions include not tampering with these devices. Homeless persons can trade their privacy and autonomy for hou
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-22#1508757 << mp\s ancient idea, "have housing free for 20yo female students provided they never dress indoors". it made a decent penny.
asciilifeform: i suspect that the logic was purely practical - the customers are no longer, by and large, creditworthy.
mircea_popescu: well yes, because we're winning the war of worlds, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: they don't want a world with us in it just like we don't want a world with them in it.
asciilifeform: american mobile telcos have, by and large, already switched to the prepaid model.
mircea_popescu: the usg.corp bakes in usg.credit much like tmsr.everything bakes in tmsr.wot and for the same exact, purely political, reasons.
asciilifeform: whereas now chumper will have to pre-load the acct.
asciilifeform: now that i think about it, the reason was obvious - get him to cough up dough for extras
asciilifeform: except, for reasons unknown to me, they would extend the customer 30 days of credit (he'd get service then get 1st bill 30d later.)
asciilifeform: what they did prior was almost this.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they did prior. but if not this - not a cable company. sorry.
mircea_popescu: yes. and the deal described (~80 one time to install including the ~30 bux monthly fee + further 30 day reloads whenever you feel like and no contract or "credit checks" is how cable fucking works. it's what was installed in Romania starting 1993.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whaddayamean? comcast is one of the regional cable monopolies in usa.
BingoBoingo: https://reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4tzjxr/why_does_the_dao_contract_have_38434_eth_in_it/?st=iqx42fo1&sh=857d0b96
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: one of the best tr0l0l0lz i've seen in eons. whole thing recommended.
asciilifeform: experimental subjects of various monitoring devices, or in which they view advertisements in their houses, or agree to consume only certain products, or to abide by brand loyalties. Additionally, these homes may be provided with certain safety features, such as a magnetic lock 490 that prevents occupants from leaving the home without meeting certain conditions, such as safety and sobriety.'
asciilifeform: 'FIG. 4 provides the solution to the problem of homelessness by providing free housing or low cost housing to anyone who wants it. Free houses are given away or loaned subject to certain Terms and Conditions. For example, the houses have surveillance and safety systems built in, and the Terms and Conditions include not tampering with these devices. Homeless persons can trade their privacy and autonomy for housing in which they become
asciilifeform: http://wearcam.org/seatsale/patent << pure gold. e.g., 'Fig. 4 illustrates the back door of a free dwelling or a low cost housing project, where the door has a magnetic safety lock for preventing children from accidentally running out into the backyard and being killed or injured by land mines that have not yet been de-activated by sliding a credit card into the door frame to purchase yard privileges.'
asciilifeform: re 'pay as you go', the favoured variant appears to be http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-25#1285945 - flavoured.
shinohai: i copied from another buffer
asciilifeform: why the space ?
gribble: Error: We broke The Google!
asciilifeform: the only notch to go to after that will be chastity belt that physically prevents bladder from emptying until paid.
asciilifeform: and pay toilets where you gotta put in credit card for a set of shutters in the toilet to open.
asciilifeform: shinohai: lulzy. see the electric meters in arizona thread from a while back, for similar item.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where was the anvil ?
mircea_popescu: i have never before seen such nonsense, not even in the depths of romanian 80s poverty, where they actually have unyielding band for the underwear omfg.
asciilifeform: holy fuq, is that a bismarck's cross on the anvil ?!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile i bought "industria argentina" male underwear which, while spoiling the same amount of cotton as a normal pair ; nevertheless HAS NO RUBBER BAND.
mircea_popescu: hurr durr, wasn't its thing to abandon in the first place.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not even abandoned. it's "abandoned", in the sense your pet cat "has abandoned" its copy of the master and marguerita.
mircea_popescu: so, so reminescent of "eudemocracia.org" ie http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/#selection-197.0-197.39
asciilifeform: gmail is a very characteristically american chumpatron - 'we will fart and fart and encourage others, and then sell you bottle of clean air'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: experimentally, they aren't.
asciilifeform: 'Each Google Apps for Work user can store up to 30 GB of content for free (compared to 15 GB with Google Apps free edition or individual consumer accounts). This storage is shared between Gmail, Google Drive, and Google Photos. If you’re approaching the limit or if you've run out of storage, you can purchase additional storage or reduce your storage usage.'
asciilifeform: the 'human' can afford real leather 'business planner' through no fault of his own, just because the money pipe going through ~his~ back yard drips moar than the orc's
mircea_popescu: same thing, throughout. buenos aires has a night life, god help you if you try to go out. it has shops, god help you if you try to you know, find the most common industrial product in deployment over the whole country (ie, the heating element from http://trilema.com/2016/cargo-cults-a-case-study/ )
asciilifeform: what's the diff b/w 'ordinary derp' and orc
mircea_popescu: but he ISNT one. he's an orc masquerading as one, and at the first touch the masquerade crumbles.
mircea_popescu: this incidentally is so fucking typical of this shithole it bleeds. they have THE MARKINGS of everything. if you don't look too closely, tomas bulat seems just like an ordinary derp ; has an email and a picture and everything.
mircea_popescu: the idiots use google mail ; who said google mail has infinite space ?
mircea_popescu: nah, host aspmx.l.google.com [173.194.222.27] SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<tbulat@infobae.com>: 552-5.2.2 The email account that you tried to reach is over quota.
mircea_popescu: me finds http://www.infobae.com/2015/12/05/1774628-el-gran-mito-que-la-argentina-es-un-pais-rico/ where his quote re plowing fly is given as "unknown author", writes to the bulat derp to point out the author's known, since ~1850 or so. guess what happens next ?
mircea_popescu: ahahaha who the fuck figures mcafee no doubt has a clue of maths ?
asciilifeform: sci.crypt crackpots were every bit as entertaining as the sci.physics ones
asciilifeform: this kind of circus is one of the thing i miss about usenet
asciilifeform: ming to understand my design. I will be happy to send you a copy of my patent application so you can evaluate the veracity of my claims if you will sign a notarized non-disclosure agreement.'
asciilifeform: so, via this heathen pit, http://www.whoismcafee.com/the-travel-guide : 'Dr. McAfee, I have spent the past thirty years perfecting an unbreakable encryption algorithm. My algorithm is not just unbreakable for all practical purposes it is theoretically unbreakable. The advent of quantum computers will not change this. The mathematics confirming my claim is indisputable. You no doubt have sufficient knowledge of mathematics and program
asciilifeform: fiatola was printed in china before euro folk climbed down from the trees, or what it was.
asciilifeform: i followed the qntra link, that's it.
mircea_popescu: dawg. you're seriously spending your time sifting through tardstalk to support a minor point of dubiously more value than the cost of a log line ?
asciilifeform: 'i opened the money-promise box and it had 0, but i do not accuse the vendor of scam'
asciilifeform: 'Either that company was running a scam (and I do not actually accuse them of that) or they were retaining backup copies of the private keys they generated (which they never should have done) and they were stolen by either a hacker or an employee.'
mircea_popescu: well they speak a different language.
asciilifeform: any of the places this crapolade was pushed.
asciilifeform: but srsly i wonder if there is ANY discussion of 'the fella who generated the keys may have copies and you will NEVER prove the contrary' in, e.g., tardstalk, wherever.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'who could have foreseen!'
mircea_popescu: how the fyuck does this work.
mircea_popescu: now i'm reading source material of ro 1960s censorship ("raport de analiza muncii", 3rd/4th q, 1961). guess what ? all the censors are women. andreescu elena, miroiu, takacs margareta (they had hungarians to read the hu stuff lol), "vas a. & pop c.", etc etc. fucking dozen+, all womens.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i was thinking of that exact thread when i read the news. prophetic huh?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-06 15:04 asciilifeform: i dun care if it is made of gold, shitanium, hitler's skull, etc.; my take on folks selling envelopes which may or may not contain a funded privkey, and may or may not contain the ONLY extant copy thereof, remains same.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-22#1508545 << i suggest link to the thread ? or if somebody ( mircea_popescu ? ) ever had an article-length exposition of subj -- to that.
mircea_popescu: obv if i fucking google it, trilema is like the only source. motherfucker already. here. http://trilema.com/2011/propuneri-de-masuri-pentru-imbunatațirea-activitații-politico-ideologice-de-educare-marxist-leninista-a-membrilor-de-partid-a-tuturor-oamenilor-muncii-comentate/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re earlier, these factors are 1024 bt long. the longest ssh popped prior, had 512b-long factor.
mircea_popescu: we're here to develop the tmsr human resources, not to get some derps not in wot to eat their fucking peas.