asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i thought ~whole point was the spam filter.
phf: asciilifeform: yes, that's the first bitcoin article i read end to end. i read satoshi's paper immediately after
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: oh pish and tosh. the only thing i threw out while banging on mp-wp was the comment time-sensitivity, and i even got around to fixing that.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel i'm not keeping interns at the moment
shinohai gets the zyklon canisters out of storage
mats: shinohai: I don't want to read about ethereum or ethereum-likes unless it is about holders being herded into cattle cars and gassed
a111: Logged on 2016-08-14 17:29 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-13#1520649 && https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4xj6uw/bitcoin_previously_had_all_the_properties_that/d6fwloo && http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-04#1445489 << ...soo, has anyone an idea how hawala-like exchange structures for say bitcoin could be encouraged? i've read and liked http://thestringpuller.com/2016/06/bitcoin-in-wakanda/ which is more of a vision of course..
asciilifeform: (in the latter case - can haz context ?)
asciilifeform: phf et al: did i ~and~ the log somehow get netsplit, and miss a thread, or is the hawala thing a continuation of pm or whatever
BingoBoingo: shinohai: It's not there yet.
phf: but if the question is, why can't reddit produce hawala, the answer is so obvious it's kind of a "no shit". you need http://glyf.org/socdarw.jpg for hawala, which reddit doesn't have, can't produce and wouldn't recognize when given.
phf: well, there is the wot, though nobody here as far as i know is buying/selling. there was also bitcoin-otc, which from what i hear died. i actually tried buying 10btc from a guy that was in bitcoin-otc wot, but we were l3, and he understandably bulked
BingoBoingo: mats: Well gotta explain the problem in layers. First is people. Next is substance. Then...
phf: probably what thestringpuller means is that "we" (he's speaking to a bunch of reddit anons, so i assume it's purely rhetorical) don't have a wot based market.
phf: Framedragger: i was saying hawala as an alternative to bitcoin. that was when we were looking closely at the implementation and finding all kinds of insanity. hawala is a system for tracking long term exposure, and you forego collateral because you have "fuck same woman" wot (i suspect there's still collateral involved when exposure is too high). you don't need hawal when you have near instant calls.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell covertress You gotta get other parties WoT'd up for your press releases to make it to media distribution.
Framedragger: $s "in the log"
a111: Logged on 2016-04-04 16:22 phf: given the state of things, i'm not convinced that hawala is the worst we can do
a111: Logged on 2016-08-13 19:28 thestringpuller: more ver-ified lulz: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4xj6uw/bitcoin_previously_had_all_the_properties_that/d6fw4ns
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-13#1520649 && https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4xj6uw/bitcoin_previously_had_all_the_properties_that/d6fwloo && http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-04#1445489 << ...soo, has anyone an idea how hawala-like exchange structures for say bitcoin could be encouraged? i've read and liked http://thestringpuller.com/2016/06/bitcoin-in-wakanda/ which is more of a vision of course..
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-14#1521460 << this to me seems to be a confusion between metaphysical and epistemological relativism. "what green is to me" is more to do with the latter, and cannot be used to support full-blown idealism (as in berkeley), or "there are multiple universes", or anything else which has specific *metaphysical* commitments.
covertress: danielpbarron: the only time I hear "universe" confused with 'god' is from AA members.
mircea_popescu: covertress traditionally theories are not believed or disbelieved ; that's more of a religious practice.
mircea_popescu: on't add me. Thanks for your corporation.. Your satisfaction is what we want. I will be expecting your reply. Just add and inbox me and I will help you to become a member of the great Illuminati.Thanks once again I am Bella Wilfred and your happiness is what we want."
mircea_popescu: on just add and message me..and if you are in Kenya, south Africa, Tanzania,India,Zambia, Ghana, don't add me... Because I can't help you. I can't help you if you are from those country. But if you are in the USA, UK, Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, NIGERIA,Nether land, Poland, and if you are in European and Asia country and so on you can also add me let's talk and I will help you be a member... Once again if you are not serious d
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, "I am here to help you become rich and famous.. If you are not serious in becoming a member please don't even think of adding me or sending me a message because I won't be happy with you.but if you know you are serious and ready to become a member just add me now let's talk and let's get to know each other more better. If you wanna be famous like rihanna, jazzy, Eminem,rick Ross, Lil Wayne, bey once and so
covertress: *the secret ingredient in most good Mexican food
covertress: I grow my own Japapenos next to Jabaneros, so they cross-polinate and become hotter.
mircea_popescu: you should see these people. i bought two hot peppers, they sold them with nuclear warhead warnings.
covertress: ahhh... fine cheese is another weakness of mine
mircea_popescu: i just don't like cooking the barbarian stuff.
mircea_popescu: covertress yeah ok, but say shrimp needs 40 seconds ; veal maybe 70 ? whereas the mushrooms five fucking minutes or w/e.
mircea_popescu: though in general this is the job of the god damned cook, which is why i don't eat just anywhere.
mircea_popescu: ~the only thing i liked about it was that the meat was cut very thin and you could hold-cook it to a very fine degree.
covertress: contemporary Mongolian hot pot > http://www.thetabletopcook.com/images/thetabletopcook-korean-barbecue-at-hee-been.jpg
mircea_popescu: you distinguish between these ?
mats: 'hot pot' is a thing, but i've not seen a chinese place with hot plates unless they're also korean fusion or something
mircea_popescu: this is everyfucking where heh. but sure, in the coupla blocks of ba that constitute the "china town", between a kitchy gate and two dragon statues.
mircea_popescu: mats no. you sit down, they ask what kind of WINE you want if any ; and then they bring you 30 plates
covertress: here is some news for TMSR, before it hits the press > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WuZNZ2uPB2kFPzzQ-e3vBfJIP2bT8Gu1--6UxWepxCg/edit?usp=sharing
mircea_popescu: in any case it is much better to have food, kill you slowly and the quod me nutrit bridge than just repeat 餐飲 until you fall down and then be worshipped as a very wise man - hey, 5k yo wisdom "directly applicable" today.
asciilifeform: set up, if you like, the huffman table.
mircea_popescu: anyway. a large part of the problem with "i think better in symbols" is exactly evident here : sure, you think you do, much like dude in bathtub feels he's going faster. nevertheless YOU CANT FUCKING EXPLAIN WHAT YOU THOUGHT.
asciilifeform: 'it said right on the box...'!
mircea_popescu: maybe you misread the labels.
asciilifeform: hey krok does exactly what is printed on the box.
mircea_popescu: moreover, this is exactly their first run in with first world problems. there's no history to go by.
asciilifeform: i am familiar with some of the ways in which 'stranger.'
mircea_popescu: the chinese are stranger still.
mircea_popescu: the problem is russians are, for all their ridiculous orcishness, still white people.
a111: 1 results for "when you care enough to steal the very best", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=when%20you%20care%20enough%20to%20steal%20the%20very%20best
asciilifeform: $s when you care enough to steal the very best
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu is familiar with the process. and output.
mircea_popescu: heh, i guess my father also.
asciilifeform: thing is, i know a bit about orcish 'ip theft' business, father spent most of his life doing just it.
mircea_popescu: you ever been in one of these btw ?
mircea_popescu: yeah well, this is chinese restaurant. they don't do al a carte, they just bring you stuff.
asciilifeform: this is the thing i'd dearly like to see die
asciilifeform: but the cost is - using american design. which is subtly braindamaged in 1,001 ways, not all of them even deliberate.
mircea_popescu: it's not expected this iteration will yield "better pci". merely - pci that you don't pay the license for.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to briefly revisit thread, one interesting tidbit you might not know about 'hardcopy fpga' is that it stands on same toolchain as the respective vendor's 'ordinary' fpga (on which one prototypes for the 'hard' variant.)
mircea_popescu: it's a much larger and more complex task like that ; best get the small discrete tip sorted out first.
shinohai: I decided to stuff the whole thing in an .img file so you don't have to reinvent the whole server wheel every time
asciilifeform: hey, if they can also ignore chinese subs having rocket target practice off california beach, in sight of tourists
mircea_popescu: (but yes, the fact that the dos did NOT put into obama's files the observation that the "labour" dispute in silicon valley was chinese driven test run is exactly the sort of thing that feeds my spite for the whole of usg as a "state". it's a state like a collection of mahjongg players is a state.)
mircea_popescu: the us already proved it's willing to do anything for sv lobby, and so the chinese are drip feeding the "capitalists" and waiting.
asciilifeform: recall the ftdi incident ?
mircea_popescu: the us is weak ; it has already proved its unwillingness to pursue in the field ; their only response ("we'll ban the faux items at border") is exceptionally inadequate here : you'll get left behind by tech train if oyu do.
asciilifeform: other trend is that quite soon no one will want american design, stolen or not.
mircea_popescu: these forces may well combine into a major trend.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the big thing with this faux fpga thing is that it's very cheap. the much more important smaller thing is that it makes it god damned easy to steal usian ip.
mircea_popescu: (pro tip : when management starts talking about "current market" it's time to sell. they've lost all contact.)
mircea_popescu: well, it is possible on the basis of the observable data the chinese are coming to your view.
asciilifeform: recall, i ~like~ fpga, and if it were my will, it would be the only logic chip produced, and anyone who 'needs' ddr3 clock can get phucked
mircea_popescu: so yeah. there's all sorts of things at play here.
mircea_popescu: hence why i say drones. you recall the thread ? with "air fence"| for olympics ?
asciilifeform: (in fact it was the example i gave in the original thread concerning it, re a 'final solution' to subj.)
asciilifeform: the real 'killer app' of fpga is 'specificity of diddling'
asciilifeform: fpga is quite like the semiconductor equiv. of '3d printer'.
mircea_popescu: yes but it also depends what the product actually is.
asciilifeform: other point was that it is quite rare to see fpga deployed in mass produced product, because it has inescapably large per-unit cost compared to classical asic. it makes economic sense for small runs (<100,000) and for items which actually need the reconfigurability.
mircea_popescu: so then the correct statement would have been "it's not clear yet if it'll ever be useful", with which i agree, not "it can't happen".
mircea_popescu: well it's unclear what the fuck it'll be, but it's pretty evident, at least to me, that the chinese ARE trying to erode the whole xilinx tower of ip.
mircea_popescu: do you see where the "oh i know how these assholes are cheating their customers" and "oh chinese have no economic incentive" do not communicate in your head ?
mircea_popescu: look, it's not a value judgement on you. i'm interested in the process.
asciilifeform: it is in the l0gz.
mircea_popescu: which is the problem with your clue - it is an anticlue, fed by delusional notions of design purism with no practical exposure whatsoever. in meta-world "nobody buys" metallization fpga for miner asic. in real world, it makes a billion dollars in sales over 5 years, ie, more than ~any "proper" chip class.
asciilifeform: largely used for, or so all of the available clues suggest - deep-packet inspection iron.
asciilifeform: presently looking to see exactly ~whose~, the part is new.
asciilifeform: well i have the elementary clue re what device is used for, who buys, where it is a physico-economical win and where - not, etc.
mircea_popescu: whether you have or don't have a clue as to the economic process involved isn't related to my having or not having one. you can't simply run around turning any statement into any random converse, what sort of javascript is this!
mircea_popescu: this being the problem : those aren't valid substitutes.
mircea_popescu: the bar for having a clue is owning and operating foundry, not being one of the monkeys foundry may at its leisure employ
mircea_popescu: look : we keep "having these threads" where you keep sprouting nonsense about how you think the world works. we'll have them until either you give up on thinking you have a clue on these things ; or i get tired of it.
asciilifeform: just a sov-style copy of the silicon.
asciilifeform: of the kind we might find interesting.
asciilifeform: and if it were, they are happy to clone xilinx and ship pirate copy of the binary turdchain with it.
mircea_popescu: yes. but the process itself is cheap, and the chinese will proceed to pirate. as per above.
asciilifeform: ever see manual for, e.g., xilinx fpga? it is simply a mass of these turds.
mircea_popescu: thing is, given the tiny process now used, this is actually not such a terrible approach, for many projects.
asciilifeform: think 'bunch of misc. logical units, adders, shifters, etc. with plugboard' and you're 99% there.
asciilifeform: thing is, you get the clock rate of fpga. and same energy consumption. (~same propagation delays).
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in principle if you make "generic" silicone you can then "fpga" it out of metal mask cuts
asciilifeform: expect to see it at your friendly local 3dprinterist, makemagazine, kickstartertronic, 'THE BEOBLE can MAEK anything!111' convention.
asciilifeform: in other noose, a new ( to me at least ) type of scamola : http://www.sifive.com << metallization mask level (minor tweaks to EXISTING design) thing, which dates to the late 1980s even, fraudulently being pushed now as 'custom silicon for all', lulzy.
mircea_popescu: (the astute reader has no doubt long ago figured out that by jiggling the last figure before the _ one can see the rest of any set)
mircea_popescu: http://66.media.tumblr.com/d39182b4713e575f0e6d95e20a4f0115/tumblr_n37638gj1x1sitnino5_250.gif << fine, admire her silky hair then.
mircea_popescu: and in other boobs, http://67.media.tumblr.com/e9aaef655de4fdd1acb633b5da3088e7/tumblr_n37638gj1x1sitnino1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: anyway ; seems a fine principle, and i see no other available.
mircea_popescu: "Every male person, being twenty-one years of age, and resident in any particular town in this Commonwealth for the space of one year next preceding, having a freehold estate within the same town, of the annual income of three pounds, or any estate of the value of sixty pounds, shall have a right to vote in the choice of a Representative or Representatives for the said town."
asciilifeform: never heard of the 'voter buses' ?
asciilifeform: phun phakt: the last time i went to a voting booth, i took out driver license to give to the clerk, to be checked off the list (there is a list of townspeople with tickyboxes next to names) and clerk turned around in horror, 'put it away!' -- turns out it was (or at least thought to be) now illegal for clerk to LOOK AT such a thing, in many states incl. md.
asciilifeform: the only kind i'm familiar with is when orc land 'opposition party' 'calls in observers' so that usg-favoured output can be hardcoded in.
mircea_popescu: either that or he's just stupid, whatever.
mircea_popescu: it's echafaudage. you don't come out with what you want ; you come out with the principle poorly embodied. op protests, you change it.
asciilifeform: and from where does one get them ? mars ?
asciilifeform: other thing - what exactly are 'election observers' supposed to do ?
asciilifeform: my fave horse is the very same 'common man fucked with spiked club of monotonically increasing thickness' as described by mircea_popescu .
mircea_popescu: yes, yes, i get it : life is a contest for life, and you have your favourite horse. this is fine. the important point here however isn't so much "what trump can accomplish" but "mp is as far as the internet can tell trump's campaign strategist. because no one other has better proof."
asciilifeform: lockheed et al 'also want to live.' either diebold, or fella eventually 'eats bad seafood' and keels over, or, etc. and that'll be that.
asciilifeform: hey if the man can turn shit into gold, i'll clap.
asciilifeform: why not also demand to bring back motherfucking literacy test for vote.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-14 05:08 ben_vulpes: and if anyone could exclude diebold and friends from the party it'd be him
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-14#1521093 << can demand whatever he likes. what will get, is another matter entirely.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-14 05:12 ben_vulpes: phf, shinohai, trinque, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: i elected to nuke the "stale comments" thing, i'd be much obliged if any of y'all have a patch for that. in exchange i've got a patch on wp-comments.php for the suffix trick, not that it's hard or anything
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that thing really ought to link back to the waterbug piece.
mircea_popescu: ah, that's a pretty stupid idea in that it kills pingbacks, which are a rather important contextualization tool.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-07 22:02 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell davout delete xmlrpc.php from your wordpress install and you will be 95% of the way to securing your blawg
mircea_popescu: davout put the staleness back in ?
ben_vulpes: no, i put the staleness back in
mircea_popescu: well, you're vulnerable to comment flood and to harvester/spammer pairs, but otherwise should be ok.
ben_vulpes: also *zero* clue of what to do to avoid dushensking the instance
ben_vulpes: maybe? vaguely concerned that the thing is subtly broken in other ways not immediately apparent.
ben_vulpes: 2) i added the suffix generation routine to the template page, and appended the suffix to the relevant form names.
mircea_popescu: well... in the sense that it doesn't check anymore, yes.
ben_vulpes: that fixed the comment processor complaining about stale pages or whatever
ben_vulpes: 1) i commented out the line in wp-comments that checks for the delta between now and the comment time being greater than or less than two magic numbers.
mircea_popescu: now then. what are you trying to get and what did you do for it ?
ben_vulpes: and specifically, commented out the line starting with if (((time ...
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i pulled out the "comment_checks"
ben_vulpes: phf, shinohai, trinque, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: i elected to nuke the "stale comments" thing, i'd be much obliged if any of y'all have a patch for that. in exchange i've got a patch on wp-comments.php for the suffix trick, not that it's hard or anything
ben_vulpes: and if anyone could exclude diebold and friends from the party it'd be him
ben_vulpes: oh man if he can throw the vote tracking systems into chaos...
mircea_popescu: well there's no valid signature...
mod6: he probably reads the logs.
asciilifeform: but the rest stands..
asciilifeform: use yer imagination. they're ~1000nm, ir.
asciilifeform: in other 'news', chinese appear now to sell 30w (!) ~diode~ lasers, fiber-coupled, approx. the size of cig pack, a few hundy usd.
asciilifeform: ished by the US Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE). '
asciilifeform: 'But this is the hoax that keeps on giving. The creators of the automatic nonsense generator, Jeremy Stribling, Dan Aguayo and Maxwell Krohn, have made the SCIgen program free to download. And scientists have been using it in their droves. Yesterday, French researcher Cyril Labbé revealed that 16 gobbledegook papers created by SCIgen had been used by German academic publisher Springer. More than 100 more fake SCIgen papers were publ
asciilifeform: i have nfi what it would look like if 'worked', the most that can be asked for is sokal-style lul.
mircea_popescu: and prove for the nth time that... a) nobody reads the "mainstream" media so no possibility of competing in the direct and b) they have no money anyway, nor any interest in any form of reality, so they can't buy anything from you anyway.
asciilifeform: then we somehow find a way to slip'em in.
asciilifeform: at this point there is more than enough material to write a first-class shannonizer.
asciilifeform: anybody wanna write perl script that generates these articles ?
asciilifeform: and of course the sacramental, '...the report says that the industry will have to work with governments to create standard rules and laws to govern transactions.'
asciilifeform: these folks have maybe 3, 4 recipes. total.
asciilifeform: 'Most banks have already put together blockchain working groups...' BLOCKCHAIN!!111
asciilifeform: perhaps simply told 'read this script in court or there will be problems'
mircea_popescu: "shut up or else i route the money to taliban" ?
mircea_popescu: heck, saudi fortunes seem i ntreouble. the us moved to vacuuming up far east private fortunes recently.
asciilifeform: well simply that i dun have a copy of their dekulakization process. so working under assumption that they did not get duked.
mircea_popescu: not clear what heir could have done, other than you know, gaddafi all over himself.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you read the thing you're bound to recognize the by-now standard and documented playbook.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when moose dies in the forest, 10,001 species of crawly comes out to eat - it is not a pest control problem as such.
mod6: <+mod6> as soon as there is a non-us wot-enabled btc provider... i might think about a bare metal thing for this. << i may not wait for this... i dunno, will have to see.
mircea_popescu: "political theorist" my foot.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, nannerl o keohane, at the time duke head, is certainly a fine example of lizard dome architect.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, the lizzard meisters wiped it off say http://www.legalzoom.com/legal-articles/article15046.html ; but embers remain http://www.nytimes.com/1996/04/11/nyregion/deal-reached-over-the-estate-of-doris-duke.html
mod6: as soon as there is a non-us wot-enabled btc provider... i might think about a bare metal thing for this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would be interesting to read the court transcript of the executor swap. can haz ?
mircea_popescu: the various things the woman wanted financed got defunded "for perpetuating the Duke family history of personal passions and conspicuous consumption". and well... this being in 2004 i imagine the money is by now well spent by the usg.
asciilifeform: well then.
mircea_popescu: within a decade of her death, her chosen executor was replaced by us court ; morgan stanley president ; duke uni president and some other dubious schmucks appointed executors
mircea_popescu: so doris duke was this rando slut inheriting some decent chunk of change from the guy who owned lucky strike. she did all sorts of things, including funding duke university. then she died and left a will, naming her butler as executioner, leaving duke 10mn and stipulating that anyone contesting the will is to get nothing.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, as we were discussing probate lulz in the us recently :
asciilifeform: as in, the trad orc method, of 'memorize this and recite'
asciilifeform: ( there is, to no particular surprise of asciilifeform's no detectable english translation of lermontov's 'dispute' - linked item, it being not in any possible sense obscure )
asciilifeform: approx., 'bedouin has traded conquest / for a coloured tent / and he sings, the stars a-countin' / of where his fathers'd went'
mircea_popescu: i've been kinda waiting for the proper greek drama of "hitler as the executor of his own demise through countering his allies' enmity as best he can"
mircea_popescu: anyway. there's a deep reason hitler "beloved bayern". it's complicated, all this flow, but in the end - the "treuloser Feinglinge" version of the dolchstoss libel, while factually unsubstantiated, is entirely comprehensible historically.
mircea_popescu: or sit around and smoke and meditate. the "absconse scottish lord" figure in british literature very much typifies the trope.
asciilifeform: they sit around and pray and horsewhip serfs etc.
asciilifeform: the folks running on 'solipsist' setting dun tend to read import lit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, depends which set of magazines made it across the overflowing rivers that spring, you know.
asciilifeform: folks who inherit empire they had done nothing to conquer, all look quite similar through my telescope.
mircea_popescu: eh, "degenerate russian aristocrats" is simply french wanna-be ism. nothing russian there.
asciilifeform: they all read like that schlumberger to me.
mircea_popescu: but really, voltaire actually had a fine blueprint, EARLY. they just didn't read him.
asciilifeform: or the degenerate ru aristocrats
mircea_popescu: there are some meeting points, for sure.
mircea_popescu: sure. but the ineptitude of the junker class is well documented ; and i daresay well understood.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how comfortable the junkers were.
mircea_popescu: and to think, the idiot junkers got to fuck it up.
asciilifeform: this blew me away when i first found out - derps are STILL running on the fumes of the great german rocket of ~1900
mircea_popescu: they're poorer than they've ever been ; people point and laugh at venezuela, but venezuela never fucking had the blessing of such an euro outpour.
mircea_popescu: first, the german made them rich buying leather to make the pikehauberk. then, grain in ww2. then borrowed. then defaulted. then borrowed. etc.
asciilifeform: hey, not universal once mircea_popescu unpacked his pith helmet and started the colonization, eh ?
asciilifeform: or neither, and won't even fit in my orc skull. or.
mircea_popescu: the couch really is not your business, we're discussing whether this beam is horizontal or not, and if these angles sum up to the right value.
asciilifeform: wasn't asking for the couch, but for sufficiently many intersecting planes in the vector space that we might arrive at a spot that looks like couch would fit there.
mircea_popescu: "what kind of house can i build if you and your wife aren't seated on a couch watching tv as we build the walls around you!!!1"
mircea_popescu: i said "a specific definition is not required for the discussion", you opted to stuff some nonsense into that.
asciilifeform: so since noses un unscrew, and i cannot trade with mircea_popescu for each other to see what stinks to the other, the train typically stops there.
asciilifeform: so far it resembles, in my mind, an entirely subjective thing, like, e.g., 'stinks'. stinking depends on the nose in question.
mircea_popescu: (the agreement i inferred to have with phf as a result of that statement was "it's not even clear what sort of hyperexponential is involved, it grows so fast". we don't have any sort of upper bounds.)