mircea_popescu: the current us fashion of asking kids for "their opinion" is as good a proof as needed that there exist no qualified philosophy teachers in that country, for instance.
mircea_popescu: ause you're fucking there specifically because your thinker and feeler are absent, broken or in the best case filthy.
mircea_popescu: this is because you also don't grasp the concept of "learning" correctly. there is no required participation of the fucking subject in learning actual matter, such as philosophy. if i were teaching them cooking i'd be interested in their own fucking contribution and whatever. but the point of philosophy is to shut the fuck up and LEARN. what "the text makes you think" and what "you feel about X" is entirely uninteresting, bec
diana_coman: since we had classes starting usually at 8am if not 7:30 at uni on most days (they surely wouldn't have all fitted otherwise in a week/daytime if starting any later), I did not grasp the early concept correctly, lol
diana_coman: oh, I thought they woke up early as in woke up at 6am to read for the class out of fear or something
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, that sounds then like an excellent class in waking up early, but with dubious results philosophy-wise :p
BingoBoingo: phf: Amazing! When I was in a graduate philosophy program it was dominated by the same ethos!!! Also, there's always one or more polish students in philosophy program.
mircea_popescu: the exact equivalent of these kids in romania would then have to wake up early because they had class with mp, who was ONE YEAR THEIR JUNIOR, and he'd flunk them all eventually, but they were too petrified of him anyway.
phf: their tiny apartments, and this polish guy piotr would sit me down and go "now look philip, this is not how you think. if debord was part of philosophical discourse, he'd know that blah blah blah has completely demolished his argument, let me tell you" and on and on and on
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529232 << when i used to drink heavily back in philadelphia my собутыльники (literally "those who share bottles", a derisive way of saying that the thing we had in common was an excuse to drink) was a small group of european philosophy ph.d.-s from upenn program. those guys would habitually get blackout drunk, which they thought was most important skill of a philosopher. usually we'd end up at one of
mircea_popescu: im making some slag tro make some mining tools in a bit here ; you can have some if you want then you can either use them or sell them to noobs.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 success ... this is the coolest thing yet.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: t2yax you can voice yourself, just say $up to the bot
mircea_popescu: indoor_jellyfish a lot of the stuff is pretty perplexing.
diana_coman: culturally acceptable I mean there
a111: Logged on 2016-08-25 00:29 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528679 << not all the children are fit to live ; all the parents are liable to lie to themselves on this score. this impedance mismatch is the first and in plenty of approximations the only business of social science.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529080 true; at the same time and funnily enough in this particular case, the parents of this guy actually called the police on him and apparently tried to get him out of the way -within the confines of what was acceptable- but essentially everybody else disagreed with the parents' own view that he wasn't fit to live among others as he was at the time.
indoor_jellyfish: "A large source of the incredible tedium of his prose is that where you see predicates and subjects with their determinants he just runs a mess of copulative constructions in pre-cut forms ; his idea of English phraseology is essentially a trainload of nouns." < a part-chinaman trying for hieroglyphs
BingoBoingo: Yes, neighborhoods are exactly that clearly ordered if one is the sort of defective that counts by primary colors and names building after their shape.
indoor_jellyfish: The obsession with social status is bizzare. Are neighborhoods so clearly ordered good through bad? How much time did the adults in his life spend discussing this within earshot?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-25 06:02 mircea_popescu: it's so fucking weird - kid evidently comes from money. he didn't find a brothel ? a roach peddler ? nuttin' ?
indoor_jellyfish: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529204 < It's amazing (to me at least) that there is no mention of google anywhere in this whole story. He never spent a moment just clicking around on whatever looked interesting because "hey, what's this?"
BingoBoingo: Anyways this explains why the lizard DEA made heroin trendy again. The drug kids with WoW thing backfired.
mircea_popescu: it's so fucking weird - kid evidently comes from money. he didn't find a brothel ? a roach peddler ? nuttin' ?
BingoBoingo: "This was the most horrible thing she could do to me, to take away my only source of joy left in the world." << lol nope. He still had a joy. Mebbe they should have sent him to drugs.
BingoBoingo: "My parents shocked me with very horrible news. They were planning on sending me to Taft High School. Taft had five times as many students as Crespi, it was a public school, it had girls in it, and it had a bad reputation. I had never been so scared in my entire life. How could they do this to me, after knowing what I went through at Crespi? Taft High School would eat me alive and spit me out. I felt so betrayed by my parents." << AHA, I
mircea_popescu: the most shocking thing to me re anglospace is and remains the incredible textual productions of people who evidently master no references. it's an endless outpour of "music" from people who don't recognize any notes.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/the-story-of-elliot-rodger-by-elliot-rodger-adnotated-part-three/ << Trilema - The Story of Elliot Rodger. By Elliot Rodger. Adnotated. Part Three.
phf: man, this story is going to give me nightmares, it's a nightmare in which i'm reading the story and can't get out
mircea_popescu: dune 2 solved the problem by a) making the quads shit and b) overpowering the turrets AND c) forcing you to keep resetting your base through "levels".
mircea_popescu: but the cavalry rushes were pretty sad affairs specifically because a) game ended cca 1k bc ; b) the score was otherwise unbeatable ; c) wtf srsly.
BingoBoingo: AHA. The rules.txt file and sprite files were great introduction to "Computer Game is not opaque monolith"
mircea_popescu: usually played the russians doing this :D
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo civ was very weak because it had a number of "rush". i could consistently win rushing the (large landmass) globe with cavalries.
BingoBoingo: The power move in Civ 2 was to swiftly revolution your govt into Fundamentalism after getting the bomb and rushing your enemies with cheap fanatics.
phf: hehe, actually ambush strategy is one of the reasons there's no known solutions for general networks, which must be a bummer for dod
mircea_popescu: kinda why it's so scandalous the arab teens are ripping uncle sam's overtrained, overfed volunteers a new hole.
mircea_popescu: but in general, on the basis of the horrid ad&d of average gameplayer, computer should be capable of getting pretty close to "every time" just by... you know, not being a crazed teenager.
mircea_popescu: (it stands to reason that if YOU are trying to find the enemy / rabbit / whatever you want to take stationary positions and watch ; yet people don't usually want to play a game against ai that does mostly this.)
mircea_popescu: there's other considerations in play. optimal strategies usually tend to be too stable to be "fun" ; so the designer is stuck with a pretty complex bag.
phf: strategies that you can put in a bot. of course in offline computer game you're looking at repeated games where one player can learn and observe strategy and the other one can not, so in repeated search games the human player theoretically will always wins. (probably in online games it's still an arms race of recognizing the strategy and coding/tweaking the strategy)
phf: interesting strategies (and since games are time dependant, hence differential, they are really algorithms) that you can easily implement by reading relevant papers. but to suggest that the solution is "wins every time" is a claim about the search space or claim about a game theoretical breakthrough. since thestringpuller said "well, they are very small levels" it's probably about node count. there are probably very impressive mixed
phf: stealth computer games are best suited for ai problems, because the algorithms fall under a very specific category of differential blind search games with mobile hider studied and analyzed since the 60s as part of differential games subfield of game theory (DoD likes to throw money at stuff like that, and the first treatment of subject is by a RAND corporation guy). there's no known optimal strategy for >2 node networks, but there are
mircea_popescu: you know the esprit de finesse / esprit de geometrie classification right ?
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure the case of breach was yet born when the problem truly was "nobody could have predicted". virtually all go "o hey, if we as much as gave a shit for seven straight seconds..."
mircea_popescu: as evidenced by the fact that once you stop to consider it, a minute's all it takes.
phf: so i shouldn't trust myself to run opsec either
asciilifeform: 'the thinking man's Doom.'
thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529126 << probably why stealth games have the most "interesting" ai. It's a puzzle with many solutions. :P
thestringpuller: Sure. But the notion of game AI "knowing the player's location" isn't really a thing these days.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller ai is ai, sensory advantages are sensory advantages. different categories.
thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529117 << they don't see through walls in regards to smell. This was more a system designed by Kojima in MGS3 for dogs to follow a path of the player as he would drip "particles" into the ground the dog could track.
mircea_popescu: esp as a kid, the first time you figure out you CAN fucking turn them. because at first you know, kids are cowardly, they kinda lose control at the crucial moment.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-25 00:55 mircea_popescu: (it's also not terribly fun to play over the age of about 12 or so, for this very reason. supaplex, which had dumber scissors (always left/right hand rule) AND allowd you to turn them around was much more interesting game (when scissors applied))
BingoBoingo: One can't Elliot Rodger all the nouns
mircea_popescu: (it's also not terribly fun to play over the age of about 12 or so, for this very reason. supaplex, which had dumber scissors (always left/right hand rule) AND allowd you to turn them around was much more interesting game (when scissors applied))
mircea_popescu: it is a solved problem. the only way you don't get killed if the implementation is, willingly or accidentally, bad.
mircea_popescu: imo the best ai any game ever displayed to date was pacman.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 18:49 thestringpuller: game AI is pretty advance on most fronts, it's not trying "to be human". For instance being hunted in a stealth game. If they really wanted to, they could make the AI find you EVERY time. A game of hide and go seek that's impossible to win. So the in-between is this "puzzle-like" element.
mircea_popescu: kinda what they're for.
asciilifeform: (notice, if the tale of znort is to be taken at face value, the only thing that kept his edifice from burning down was a pgp sig.)
asciilifeform: such as for instance some of the folks here may have 'come to expect' ~not~ being deluged with crafted messages from third parties claiming to be from X
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 18:46 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: actually that's misconception that arose during the "everquest" era of bullshit
mircea_popescu: so then what do i care that he is saying that i told him "x" ?
asciilifeform: i read phf's thing as simply 'you are counting on other side not to simply lose the plaintext, and not to shoot out both of your feet by sending an intended signed ciphrogram in the clear'
mircea_popescu: seems very much a "ustards do chivalry, like they saw in rome, france"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 18:26 ben_vulpes: reminds me of a conversation with the excavator operator the other day: "how'd you get your wife to let you buy a corvette?" "let?!"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528972 << there is, believe it or not, this large population of "kind bear" out there ; army, construciton etc full of them. entirely subbie to some rando woman, who half the time has no fucking clue / is just bitchy.
asciilifeform: the old sages knew this.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528952 << actually it's not altogether clear the "announced star pattern meet" is the best way to go. too much logistical difficulty involved in syncing people ; and in defending an agglomeration - for relatively little benefit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ima add it to list. but first i wanna finish the anhero niceguy.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 15:41 diana_coman: true that; my thought there was informed by the fact that a 2 years old can be happily kept occupied with perfectly-adequate stuff IF someone points them to it; on the other hand if left on their own, they will ~always find a destructive thing to do
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528679 << not all the children are fit to live ; all the parents are liable to lie to themselves on this score. this impedance mismatch is the first and in plenty of approximations the only business of social science.
asciilifeform: 'Hungary-based security consultancy SilentSignal has ported a public exploit to newer models of Cisco's Adaptive Security Appliance (ASA). .... The exploit was restricted to versions 8.4.(4) and earlier of ASA boxes and has now been expanded to 9.2.(4).'
asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/24/equation_group_exploit_expanded_to_target_cisco_924_asa_boxes << in yet other lulz.
asciilifeform: there are few folks more 'batshit' than cargocultist who manages to build a ~working~ glider.
asciilifeform: wonder how much of what these schmucks are experiencing, is the effect of drinking heavywater.
asciilifeform: the interesting part re ^ is that the depicted fixture will indeed separate water... but not into 'magic' and 'nonmagic', but... h2o and d2o.
asciilifeform: (and they build things!111 -- http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/research/Vortrap.htm )
asciilifeform: in other 'holy shit, this claptrap is still around' nonnews, http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/m-seeps.htm
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: but for so long as there are folks who remember what the Real Deal looks like - idiot is left to bite own elbows with frustration.
asciilifeform: the hearnia strategy, 'we'll steal your thing and make idiot version and sell it to EVERYONE as the Real Thing' was tried, yes, with pgp.
asciilifeform: (which gets inserted into the comp every morning to log in, and no, the card does not light up when signing)
asciilifeform: folks who've worked under the u.s. pentagon, will know what i am speaking of.
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies << obligatory.
wyrdmantis: the rabbit shithole run more deep than i thought
shinohai: Ethereum tends to do that.
shinohai: `unknown entities` and coin was the Krypton-eth-clone
shinohai: Certainly not my type of luscious flesh, but then again I prefer brunettes.
shinohai: http://archive.is/I0dX8 "why should the rest of the network be crippled because you have an irrational desire to validate every single Bitcoin transaction?"
thestringpuller: you're assuming the level is of infinite complexity, that is it exists like the natural world. That's not normally the case the level is deliberately designed so the rovers that are npcs glide along it like an amusement park ride.
phf: but if you actually believe that, there's a very lucrative Lockheed martin contract i can hook you up with
phf: thestringpuller: you're speaking with authority from not knowing, and there's no point for me to continue this conversation
thestringpuller: with sensors you can program the robots to find you every time
phf: yes, you can make ai that can smell you all through the field, but then it's equivalent to "knowing where you are", and no ai is involved. it's simply a machine that can pinpoint a location based on small with p reliability
phf: the impossibility in this case is inverse relation to "knowing where you are", not to "ai". because making ai with limited sensors (like by say using same set of sensors as what you have) find you is a tricky problem
phf: "You can make the hi"
asciilifeform: 'You can make the hi'
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: message got cut ?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: okay. so in game of hide and go seek in kojima's world. AI is like player but more liek child. It can see, it can hear, it can even smell. So if player is running in rain and footsteps appear, AI follows players trail. If AI hears suspicious noise in certain area it goes and "looks around". The thoroughness of its hunt is relative to difficulty. I was saying more if you want to go the "purist" route. You can make the hi
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: which is why games like civ1 had braindead computer opponent, and certain others - e.g., galciv - were famous for 'interesting ai'
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ai that finds you because it ~knows where you are~ is not ai.
thestringpuller: game AI is pretty advance on most fronts, it's not trying "to be human". For instance being hunted in a stealth game. If they really wanted to, they could make the AI find you EVERY time. A game of hide and go seek that's impossible to win. So the in-between is this "puzzle-like" element.
asciilifeform: phf: where i argued that the ~only~ genuine advantage of a physical key is that it is possible to destroy the only copy
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ..?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: actually that's misconception that arose during the "everquest" era of bullshit
asciilifeform: phf: do you remember the 'brainwallet' thread ?
asciilifeform: historically successful partizan organizations assumed betrayal, blackmail, and torture, as facts of life, and routed around the damage on best-effort basis (e.g., cell compartmentalization.)
asciilifeform: there are also such things as 'canary', but they tend to 'cry wolf', like burglar alarms.
asciilifeform: (for which the toolkit includes, e.g., 'fits-in-head')
asciilifeform: the necessary level of discipline contains tools such as cyanide
asciilifeform: even supposing they find none
phf: if traditional american police (and not even special lizard hitler goons) were to raid your house right now, while you're at work, on a suggestion that you run a drug market, and confiscate every piece of electronics&c they could get their hands on, what is the chance that they will find your key? how much trust should i put in your answer? both are obviously rhetorical questions. presumably, if we were to gpg gram, you will have to
asciilifeform: phf: the damage that can be wrought by folks whose hands grow out of arse, is staggering, and more so the more powerful the instrument.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there's a working-class thing of 'hand wife the wages to keep it all from going to drink'
ben_vulpes: reminds me of a conversation with the excavator operator the other day: "how'd you get your wife to let you buy a corvette?" "let?!"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 14:36 mircea_popescu: diana_coman i wish to meet the father that actually does this.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528522 << "with any luck the most we can hope for is that they're tolerable company. if one's halfway qualified to be sent to more school, i'll consider myself lucky. and if we're unlucky, well, there's always the beach and teaching surfing."
asciilifeform: in other news, fire is hot, and water - wet.
asciilifeform: e.g., are you willing to compose and read messages using something with the ergonomics of a pocket calculator ?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i half-expect to hand out otp's at the next meat gathering. << werd.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: pretty sure all the faces are on www .
asciilifeform: (most folks have not now and never will have any business using an otp. to use it without applying the required ~discipline~ - e.g., are you prepared to keep the pad with you at ALL times, in the shitter, etc. ? does more harm than good.)
mircea_popescu: ima bbl ; shinohai if moar noobs show up do pacify them for a few hours.
asciilifeform: (there are schemes for public signatures using an otp-like system - lamport's signatures - but they rely on the strength of a hash and do not have the absolute guarantee associated with an ordinary otptron.)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have a little bit of custom hardware for making this bearable, but this 'parachute' is not yet deployed in the field.
ben_vulpes is not looking forward to the glorious blood sports of curating otpwads
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there are 1,001 of these, and iirc at this point can even be bought in the shops in most civilized cities.
ben_vulpes: what btw was the name of that cheapo usb sampler you linked forever ago?
ben_vulpes: and if you missed the opportunity to batch it up in ars, it's probably worth the expense to do the rounds and collect 'em in person
a111: Logged on 2016-08-23 23:23 pete_dushenski: true, having whole gang together is rather appealing tho
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-23#1528042 << confirming that people have the keys the internet says they have in person is also appealing
mircea_popescu: which is a loud testament of their idiocy - much harder to do BOTH world AND AI at the same time.
mircea_popescu: every other game company - makes design ; tests game. s.mg stuck making design, then trying to figure out what design is actually trying to do, so it can be tested p[roperly.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this wasn't deliberate part of the design. it's just that it apparently flows from the prime principles that design rests on and implements.
mircea_popescu: because some people (me, daniel, diana, etc) are such perfectionists, we kinda debalanced the economy to where it atm has high need of you know, plain old noobs.
asciilifeform: and there, evidently, even must be folk who can do nothing but to take a shit.
asciilifeform: this is quite reminiscent of ~every little kid's question to father about movies, 'how come nobody shits'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's the gain of having the 9 around ? makes the fella with the 250 feel extra-31333337 ?
mircea_popescu: see asciilifeform if i dig up a flotsam claim, i get flotsam quality 250ish. when they do it, quality 9.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how do you stand the barn folk? what do they contribute to your game world ?
mircea_popescu: abrr i was talking to shinohai ; what you have to do is register your gpg key with deedbot and get the game client running. you got either of these ?
shinohai: mircea_popescu well i hope you're having fun. <<< least I could do in exchange for the #trilema girl
asciilifeform: then yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no ; question specifically was not "where is their loop execution time listed"
mircea_popescu: "these women seem like they may be what i want to fuck. any way to know which i'd enjoy without actually fucking anything ?"
asciilifeform: 'FEMLISP is a Common Lisp framework for solving partial differential equations with the help of the finite element method (FEM).'
mircea_popescu: "<audrow> pipping: I see. Femlisp seems good. I think femlisp, LLA, and GSLL meet my requirements. Do you have any idea how to compare the performance of various libraries, short of trying them all?" << ok, i must say i am deeply impressed with those snr enforcement measures :D
shinohai: Yeah tardstalk is a strange place, at least 5 PM's already calling this a scam before the Turkish guy showed up, so now blockchain proofs.
phf: #lisp? it has pockets of activity, but there's a decent level of signal inforcement
mircea_popescu: i suppose the unwritten codex of the place is "nothing exists before the third bump"
shinohai: Nah it's in the same place, just finally got some attention, I went back and bumped it a few times.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: the eulora post?
phf: it worked better when i had the patience to exist on large channels (#lisp for example), but now i'm checking erc-lurker-state it's the exhaustive list of all the people i even have on all of the channels
mircea_popescu: i also agree with the general point
asciilifeform: ecological hygiene is the Right Thing.
asciilifeform: symmetric ciphers have period, just like any other prng, nyooz at 11.
phf: hiding them.
phf: asciilifeform: i have this in my erc http://paste.lisp.org/display/324144 erc-lurker-state is internal hash that erc maintains on its own of people who have talked in the last 24h by default, people not in that list are considered lurkers. you can use erc-lurker-hide-list to hide certain messages from lurkers in my case JOIN/PART/QUIT, the extra erc-display-message advice is to send those message to server buffer instead of totally
asciilifeform: 'It is well-known in the cryptographic community that a short block size makes a block cipher vulnerable to birthday attacks, even if the are no cryptographic attacks against the block cipher itself. We observe that such attacks have now become practical for the common usage of 64-bit block ciphers in popular protocols like TLS and OpenVPN. Still, such ciphers are widely enabled on the Internet. Blowfish is currently the default ciph
mircea_popescu: EXACTLY the same broken choices.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but notice the astounding design similarity with "bitcoin wallet"
mircea_popescu: hey, some ideas are hard enough to possess even if explained to you, rather than having to find on own.
asciilifeform: (a sane pgptron would operate ONLY on what state is given on the command line !)
asciilifeform: and is the only way to get ~sane behaviour out of gpg.
phf: i had some mild success with a script around gpg where on each run it would create a db in tmp/, import all keys from ~/wot ~/systemkeys ~/randomkeys etc., then run the op against that tmp db, and finally remove the db
mircea_popescu: and in further "this is thoroughly disgusting" news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m672xbFZgd1qfbxavo1_400.gif
phf: if you were to take all the marketing materials at face value, gpg1 is for backend work, gpg2 is client facing, for user emails and such.
phf: which actually makes no sense, since gnupg 1.4 is designed explecitly for use in the kind of situations debian is using it. i.e. low level infrastructural verification
mircea_popescu: but yes, the lines are certainly solidifying under republican pressure.
mircea_popescu: hey, more power to them
asciilifeform: format the first time that they run GnuPG modern but, again, the transition is transparent enough that it is not likely to be noticed.'
asciilifeform: 'For end users, the switch to the new branch will likely only be noticeable in a few situations—and perhaps only if one is looking carefully. For instance, the gpg-agent process will prompt the user for the passphrase to unlock a key, rather than the gpg process, but the workflow itself will not be altered otherwise. Users who have existing keyrings on their machines will have those keyrings automatically updated to the new storage
asciilifeform: ^ notably, aug. the 10th
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://lwn.net/Articles/696561 << moar fruit from the nailgunned-murdock tree
mircea_popescu: it's not a bad novel. stendhal's rouge&noir is also. there's more. and the east has its own.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would you say 'name of the rose' is a reasonable portrait of 'who monks' ?
mircea_popescu: monks, especially in the feminine, often don't do it voluntarily.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only clear thing it means is 'not monk, did not take vows of celibacy'
mircea_popescu: it's altogether not clear, for a very basic instance, that "voluntary" is contemplated to mean anything other than "i didn't give my permission for this".
mircea_popescu: rakim, the invpoor.
mircea_popescu: also, in its dubious definition as scrawled by hands evidently more fit and more used to farm work, "invcel" seems to rather resemble "invpoor", as for instance in africa, or its colonies in the us.
mircea_popescu: so therefore no virgins.
mircea_popescu: but if i start walking around the beatitudes a l'abbe de notre dame de courants d'air, i'll let you know.
asciilifeform: but there is a great deal of similarity between ~all 40+ y.o. male virgins
mircea_popescu: similarly not all functions that return nil are equal in the way all functions that return 4 are equal
mircea_popescu: which is a ridiculous thing for a mixed blood burgher from the colonies to even aspire to, let alone pretend to.
mircea_popescu: it's not entirely evident meaning works in the way you wish it to.
asciilifeform: that includes harris & klebold, but not, say, capt. aguilera (of 'problem in the sewers' spanish civil war fame) who killed his family
asciilifeform: the rodgers, having been taught rudimentary literacy, left sufficient record to establish themselves as a meaningful equivalence class
mircea_popescu: well looky : the practical definition and the theoretical definition have no good reason to match.
asciilifeform: postal, in the true rodgerian, or harris&klebold-ian, sense, is specifically 'supernumerary child' thinning the biomass.
asciilifeform: it is, (and i think the correct engl. criminalistic term) 'a domestic'.
asciilifeform: but 'grandfather' scenario is not a postal.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from sov criminalistic records, the typical picture is 'grandfather kills family with axe', or 'mother drowns children', but no, afaik, 'village idiot axes dozen in town hall'
mircea_popescu: not that this crumbles the whole debeaking line.
diana_coman: what I mean is that they will inevitably take on something that is bound to end quite badly for themselves first of all
mircea_popescu: they're just not as visible.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 15:28 asciilifeform: there are no postalists in places with sane population density, and sane degrees of millimortage/diem.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: statistical effect - most of the objects in your house that the 2yo could break, are not kept for this purpose
diana_coman: true that; my thought there was informed by the fact that a 2 years old can be happily kept occupied with perfectly-adequate stuff IF someone points them to it; on the other hand if left on their own, they will ~always find a destructive thing to do
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has article where 'supernumerary children who failed to find their infant graves'
asciilifeform: others - 15.
diana_coman: as I said: "could have been done" has nothing to do with putting away the pistol/guns and all to do with finding the right place for the guy, be that 10m in the ground, "jar" or whatever else
asciilifeform: at no point will any Official organ suggest that problem is 'packing chickens 5 to a cage', rather than the beak/cleaver.
asciilifeform: but principle is the same.
asciilifeform: in china, they are stuck with meat cleaver
diana_coman: from out here the butthurt re pistol/guns seems an entirely american thing really
asciilifeform: which is why the butthurt after a postal is inevitably about the pistol, or whatever ~beak~ the apoptoting chicken happened to use.
asciilifeform: so modern american farm - saws off, yes, their beaks.
asciilifeform: even chickens, when packed into cages, begin to behave ~correctly~, they cannot kill the farmer, but can try to thin the biomass that is choking off their movement and air.
a111: Logged on 2015-09-19 02:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-09-2015#1278941 << this is the EXACT same basic thing as debeaking (ask a poultry farmer)
asciilifeform: there are no postalists in places with sane population density, and sane degrees of millimortage/diem.
asciilifeform: when a postalist buys his kalash and begins to happily whistle as he cleans it every morning and thinks of how he will cull the diseases mass, he need not be consciously aware of why, but his behaviour is as healthy and necessary, civilizationally, as a nursing mother's.
asciilifeform: then - he woke up.
asciilifeform: when he understands (and , no - i did not have a debugger attached to his head, can only infer from the manifesto, that he ~understood~) that 'it is time'
asciilifeform: and no it does not follow that meteors have guidance systems that seek these out.
thestringpuller: the interim is lame LOL acronym thingies