ben_vulpes: subject of ipad, apple is picking a fight with the 3.5mm audio jack
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: largely by familiarity with the process. i personally grew up doing it. and this is 3rd example i run into publicly to date (others being mr mold and terry davis.)
thestringpuller: this imo is why the state of gaming is where it is. Games have become "babysitters", rather than quality toys.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the massive stash in the git, of 'this program is written in 'vrelta', which is written in 'ukuku, resting in all its pride and glory' is not shannonized. i am satisfied that it is the multi-year product of genuine madness.
thestringpuller: Imagine you're the ipad!
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i actually checked out hearthstone. it's fucking boring i dunno how they 15yo manages
mircea_popescu: it is strictly possible that ~all the facebook/reddit/etc "profiles" belong to a single person.
mircea_popescu: and i'm still reeling from the tulpa coincidence.
asciilifeform: (per the 'orc symbols' and 'cheap sybils' threads!111)
asciilifeform: ftr, the ζ thing almost led me to wonder if 'alice' wasn't an educational experiment created by mircea_popescu .
mircea_popescu: which is exactly what i meant above. really, they skinned someone else's thing ?
shinohai: Wasn't "Spells of Genesis" another Voorhees enterprise?
thestringpuller: anyhow. the srs MTG crowd actually think SoG is a joke, it may pull some player, but there's no point.
thestringpuller: but who am i to judge "boring" the countless hours watching tv to kill time while waitng to get in an FFXI party to play for like maybe 30 minutes of combat
thestringpuller: also a tale in the desert gets REALLY boring
mircea_popescu: remarkably enough, the don't mention the ~only bitcoin game worth the mention other than eulora, that being a tale in the desert.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller because totally skinning a product is innovation now.
thestringpuller: spells of genesis joins the hype train: https://news.bitcoin.com/spells-genesis-mainstream-success/
asciilifeform: (there was a ru translation! and no one had any fucking notion that there ever existed the candy, much less that it preceded that children's cartoon.)
asciilifeform: who were originally a plastic toy, and the maker commissioned a 'toyetic' (actual term of art) tv show to market it with.
asciilifeform: which is lulzy because the thing at its root is some american cartoon about (all-female!) unicorns.
asciilifeform: i ended up, to my woe, looking up the 'pony' thing trinque mentioned, there are ~0 actual females there btw.
mircea_popescu very much welcomes criticism / improvement / further research of teh suto.
asciilifeform: and i reflexively mailed it back phuctor 'contact' link (~all of my 'fan mail' is phuctor-related these days)
mircea_popescu: these were, believe it or not, unrelated strands.
asciilifeform: 'Bitcoin's marketing is predicated on poor "third world country" people adopting it for remittances. A high transaction fee network will come across as a betrayal. It is not something the powers that be will risk.' << didjaknow.
asciilifeform: 'His attitude towards Andresen, the public, the poor and the residents of Mali is despicable. ... Because most of us likely have hosted wallets somewhere, the decision will be largely out of the general public's hands, though.' << gold. how did i miss this.
hanbot: heh, seems mircea_popescu and diana_coman co-own the term "pluriously", as per google
asciilifeform: these are folk who got bored with the usual retardation (because it is deadly boring, even to practitioners) and tried to invent 'new' types.
trinque: also in mp's article there; teh culture is broken
asciilifeform: and there are millions now walking who ought to have drowned in tub.
trinque: being a killer is not absent in women, though they'll deny it with fuzzy bunnies all day long
trinque: http://trilema.com/2015/peripateticists-kinda-except-girls-not-boys-bare-cunt-instead-of-toga-and-walking-around-the-house-not-the-garden-but-otherwise-exactly-the-same/ << y'know they'll say all this then drown the kids in the bathtub
asciilifeform: and the 'tulpists' do not ?
mircea_popescu: in the past many folks also had better options.
asciilifeform: but in the past not so many folks wanted to enter that state voluntarily.
mircea_popescu: loads of folks there with various "tulpae"
mircea_popescu: it inescapably reminds me of the insane asylum.
asciilifeform: the 'tulpa' thing inescapably reminds me of zweig's 'schachnovelle'
asciilifeform: the summer.'
asciilifeform: 'Denmark has become the first country in the world to apparently buy data from the Panama Papers leak, and now plans to investigate whether 500-600 Danes who feature in the offshore archive may have evaded tax. Denmark’s tax minister, Karsten Lauritzen, said he will pay up to DKK9m (£1m) for the information, which comes from the Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca. He said an anonymous source approached the Danish government over
hanbot: (from mircea_popescu's latest) "A: A tulpa can think independantly from its creator, can have different opinions, views, tastes, etc. from its creator, provide companionship, talk directly to anyone inside the same body (including its creator and other tulpas), control and manipulate the physical body like you, recall the memories that you have if you give them the permission and more, but basically a tulpa is a conscious mind like you and can do the
asciilifeform: esp. considering that if you show up with so much as a slingshot in public, but for some non-usg-approved reason, you will at the very least be relieved of your valuables (incl. slingshot) by police.
asciilifeform: quite the circus.
trinque: they apparently jammed JS into eggdrop in 2002. ahead of its time.
phf: err, my memory doesn't go further out, but i suspect eggdrop was first case of wordpress plugin ecosystem with similar implications
phf: sort of how back in eggdrop days people would load tons of 3rd party plugins into their bot making it both unstable and exploitable. there was always some buffer overflow in !fart or somesuch
shinohai: asciilifeform !~bible matthew 10:34 <<< this is why I said alf is a vengeful god, no better than Jehovah
asciilifeform: phf: ip ban is also problematic in the sense that enemy can easily spoof any number of faux SYNs from, e.g., my box, to yours
asciilifeform would rather not
jhvh1: asciilifeform: [KJV] Matthew 10:34 :: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
asciilifeform: !~bible matthew 10:34
jhvh1: phf: [KJV] Matthew 22:21 :: They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
phf: !~bible matthew 22:21
phf: can also implement some kind of nerfing with iptables, using -m limit --limit n/s. there's also a stateful --seconds m --hitcount n
asciilifeform: the kind that accepts tcp conns from all-comers.
asciilifeform: conventional in the 'trb as we now have it' sense.
asciilifeform: the correct way to - while we still must - run traditional bitcoin, is with a wotronic net having 1,001 'tendrils' into heathendom (conventional nodes).
asciilifeform: at one time i considered adding, e.g., rate limiter, to trb, but decided that it is not the Right Thing.
asciilifeform: in other noose, 70.33.211.11 (yes, 1 box) has been ddosing trb nodes, in particular zoolag.
Framedragger off for now, sorry for pollution; good day for the logs
Framedragger: trinque: ok maybe. but the restriction is an easy way of trapping some non-halting scenarions
trinque: what, you need me to negrate you to make the point? calm down
trinque: beat the idiot
trinque: Framedragger: ftr I don't subscribe to the "bot checks to make sure it doesn't resend lines" party
shinohai: There will be soon on bit-box, got to add one more thing to make it update properly.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-06 16:31 mircea_popescu: lol! review the history. the bar in 2016 is "make a bot" ; the bar in 2014 was "get a gpg key".
mircea_popescu: jhvh1 i mean shinohai : is there a web for your bash ?
Framedragger: * Get help slaughtering the mafia states
Framedragger: there should be a bot which gives help about bots
Framedragger: it's the proper way.
Framedragger: i'll have to re-do the whole dates/times thing anyway once i move to postgres, which i want to do anyway
Framedragger: phf: ...yeah. i wanted to switch to utc so changed environment settings for when it next restarted and then it restarted sooner than expected. SUCH ENGINEERING :/
Framedragger: i guess it has a socialist bent to it - i thought - noobs won't read actual logs so might as well quote what's actually needed; and, it is useful for when it's just a couple of lines. but it does add to the thickness of logz.
mircea_popescu: or at least they'd god damned better.
mircea_popescu: though honestly, i'm not sure why it's useful, other than you liking it. people routinely read around linked items.
scriba: [2/3] [15:22:03] <phf> a111 quoted the two btcbase urls. one of the urls contained mkj url, so scriba quoted that
mircea_popescu: or maybe i should have a way to direct it, i guess, http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:698/to:700#698 > alf then he pms that to alf.
Framedragger: hmm good point, there's pm, too
scriba: [2/3] [15:22:03] <phf> a111 quoted the two btcbase urls. one of the urls contained mkj url, so scriba quoted that
Framedragger: believe it or not bot writers (scriba just piggybacks on a general bot) think about these things, sometimes :p
Framedragger: (if same irc nick invokes same line multiple lines that line won't be repeated foreva; so there's that)
mircea_popescu: but yes, we cameto a crossroad, where ai denizens are actually a significant enough portion of the republic's cohorts.
phf: the list is also used to grey out messages from bots on btcbase, so it should contain all the historic bots too
asciilifeform: and assbot dun live here, and neither, afaik, lobbesbot
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [15:18:47] <phf> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1535934 << i also added your links to crossref ( for example the little hand here, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1536009 )
phf: actually looking at code i'm already using my bot list to ignore bot messages when annotating, which is not the best behavior
mircea_popescu: #trilema, at the forefront of ai research.
mircea_popescu: for the needs of this, however, we'd have to keep a list of bots, which is mildly obnoxious.
mircea_popescu: i think best would be if phf Framedragger and everyone ever running a log bot limits the number of lines the bot will read without interruption from human to three.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that as discussion progresses, there will be genuine references that are very long./
phf: unless you post a mutually recursive url (one that contains both links at the same time and references another one that contains both)
phf: mircea_popescu: that's not the problem above though
phf: but there's a nifty way to bring down both bots, which i think i should fix asap
phf: mircea_popescu: well, i want the arrows to still work, so i explicitly ignore his for quoting
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1535934 << i also added your links to crossref ( for example the little hand here, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1536009 )
asciilifeform wonders whether this actually happened
asciilifeform: or lulzy sealandisms, 'One of HavenCo’s main investors, Avi Friedman, was worried about the Y2K problem, so he withdrew about $2 million in cash, in $100 bills, and kept the cash at home. He doled out $1,500 at a time, to make minimum payments. Lackey started using his own credit cards, spending ever more money that he didn’t have.'
asciilifeform: sonal freedom, but for the freedom of the country. At academic crypto conferences, rumors were making the rounds that the NSA had already raided the New York Public Library and reclassified documents that used to be public, and that in 1983 they had already removed Friedman’s personal correspondence from public access...'
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/TnGrv -- 'For a while it looked as if the situation could escalate. A Justice Department lawyer representing the NSA demanded that Gilmore surrender his illegal copies and threatened that the NSA might send its own operatives, or FBI agents, to seize Friedman’s proofs from Gilmore. The cypherpunks were worried — especially Gilmore’s lawyer, Lee Tien. They were worried not just for their own per
asciilifeform: (the latter box is sadly now dead)
asciilifeform: 'GB-OS has standard UTM features which can be augmented with subscription options that enhance the firewall capabilities. ' << can chump buy a working rng??
asciilifeform: 'Introducing our most powerful firewall UTM appliance - the GB-2600 UTM firewall. The new firewall appliance is powered by a 3.5 Ghz Intel i3 Dual Core CPU, with 4GB of RAM, 8GB static memory storage and provides 6 fully configurable gigabit network interfaces with the option of adding multiple 10G network interfaces. Enhanced Virtual Private Networking with hardware acceleration is standard on the GB-2600.' << but apparently 29 divi
asciilifeform: 'WELCOME TO The #1 Project Management Software for the Creative Industry Introducing Workamajig Platinum, the all-in-one solution for your creative team.'
asciilifeform: i can picture some nut in a jail cell, to whom they gave a computer. for 20 years. and we get this.
trinque: choosing the stack I did was born of experience
trinque: Framedragger: I'll be writing up the whole deployment and hosting side of things sometime today.
Framedragger: in other news, znc took more time to reconnect upon connection failure than i want it to take. gonna improve things.
mircea_popescu: they're a buggy implementation of half of common lisp!
mircea_popescu: these damned notes!
trinque: getting lispy over there mp?
pete_dushenski: "Firstly, you see ? Firstly, how you convince the girls you're a Casanova riding two stallions. Then, how you lose your virginity. In that order.
mircea_popescu: which has been, of course, a point throughout these many many years.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger eh, right. they'll go to coinbase instead. like before, there's a reason for that "these people have money?!" - mp laughs ; and the reason is that people who have money either do better research than this or else soon enough don't have money.
mircea_popescu: while doing research, http://trilema.com/2014/on-periphery-and-the-peripheral-ephemerides-are-also-mentioned/#selection-71.0-77.0
pete_dushenski: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3800/3800-h/3800-h.htm#chap04 << having the propositions from part iv in jhvh1 's repertoire would be mega-lulzy
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 03:46 jhvh1: 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1535808 << heh. first xtian bible, then alkie's bible, spinoza's ethics next ?
pete_dushenski: in other news, my best tenants of all time are leaving at the end of the month. a sadness is me. i give chances of equally quiet, punctual, respectful couple 2:1 against
pete_dushenski: http://archive.is/W1LdS << $1.3bn airdropped by bahamas in tehran. there's your inflation, folks. there too is your 'no one cancelled cash' (tm)(r)
asciilifeform: ^ asciilifeform knew the fella reporting subj bug in meatspace
asciilifeform: (upnp) 'There is a heap buffer overflow vulnerability in the create_url_list function in upnp/src/gena/gena_device.c. I first discovered this vulnerability when working with version 1.6.19 and have confirmed that it also exists in the latest code on the master branch.'
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: absolutely. and at the same time you can understand why a bunch of people do not intend to hold any money with you ("these people have money?!" - mp laughs), because even if the "ban" is legit, it doesn't exactly inspire things.
mircea_popescu: the anal child's "you didn't buy me my toy so it's your fault i'm a junkie" only works in the mind of the anal child.
mircea_popescu: there bowls of "fuck me, i'm stupid" to be eaten at every juncture. perhaps of increasing size, it is true, but there nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: that it's a smoothly working machinery, where escalation was tried and failed and then tried and failed and then and failed AND THEN TRIED!!! and failed does not excuse one from pretending "the last step" is "because the first step".
Framedragger: se of the gpg contract, but that's separate, too, i guess
Framedragger: wasn't the whole point of it that kako disagreed of you attempting to charge bbet money for spending money twice (ironically, zero fee tx will be more difficult with no block size increase - which i'm against, too). that this was not in the gpg contract. so he did not sign bbet statement. and then bbet proceeded to be liquidated. you also disabled his mpex account for an unsigned comment on qntra or wherever which did not breach any clau
mircea_popescu: if someone shouts "down with the government" and then tries to grab a policeman's gun, he will be prosecuted ; and he will obviously claim "it's political". nevertheless...
Framedragger: oh really? interesting. but in http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/ there is that "Cost of doing business in Bitcoin : 17.94766149 BTC"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the miner conspiracy is in no way related to any of this ; however. if you recall, that disagreement as such resulted in entirely no friction.
asciilifeform: jurov: mega-disappoint! where is the vomit?
asciilifeform: but i have nfi how to fit it in 1 line as other than 'elaborate work of evil, baited mousetrap.'
jurov: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/51gjs3/hillary_just_vomited_snot_into_a_glass_then_drank/
mircea_popescu: i have slaves who also don't ; so has the welfare state. this doesn't makethem "richer than x". they are the 0 of poor.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as a model, i propose to you that there's no substantial difference between this and say your bizarro position re llvm yest.
asciilifeform: eh the fella is richer than , e.g., asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: this is BECAUSE people who are poor often lack the specific sort of sophistication that will keep them from falling in that exact hole.
mircea_popescu: ftr : my "fuck you, you may not be poor and be here" is not (as i'm certain oft perceived, because why the fuck not, it's easier) simply mp-superby. it is a strict and absolute necessity for one's own mental health.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: don't disagree with your characterization. but i don't think the "entirely and unmitigatedly wrong" is objectively / necessarily the case. mining konspiracy, i don't know, mircea. but at this point i'm too out of the loop for the "i" to be mean anything here.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it's trauma, dude. he did what he earnestly believed was right at the time ; turns out to have been entirely and unmitigatedly wrong. this is catastrophic, and especially so in poorly socialized, introverted, intelligent males. now gotta reevaluate everything, the evaluations often don't come out meaningful, the correct alternatives are frequently perceived as alf-impossible, it's a mess.
asciilifeform: the really depressing bit about kako is that he floats in a vacuum now.
mircea_popescu: is the idea here that "whatever, we've already fucked ourselves with anyone with a clue, might as well say things that'd perhaps persuade a fraction of anyone else" ? or what, is "nigerian" more of a state of mind than a state of pigmentation ?
mircea_popescu: yeah well, these things take a while. go have einstein write up "his something" the year prior his writing it you know ?
Framedragger: my frustration with kako is that he doesn't think it's worth the time to write up a coherent narrative from his point of view. i'm sure it'd be useful to have it. maybe it's because it's impossible to have one in that case; maybe not; i for one don't fucking know
asciilifeform: i've tried and failed to convince the fella to write up his 'something'
mircea_popescu: anyway, so what's the problem ? guy thinks he's on to something, this is the bread and butter of a life of the mind.
Framedragger: punkman:flimflams: "oops flushed the orderbook again", "oops mispaid dividends again", "HELLO I AM THE CEO OF BITCOIN, HERE IS THE BITCOIN EXAM, oh what do you mean btc addresses don't keep a balance?" "it's not socialized losses, it's btc cartelisation research" "you were being an asshole so I banned your mpex account"
Framedragger: "the only possible explanation is that not all of it contributes to the narrative he wants to build."
Framedragger: "i'm more curious re kakobrekla's motivation for withholding any of the info."
Framedragger: asciilifeform:pankkake: the 'can't admit being wrong' thing is quite true, and whether you can afford dealing with mptronics, is very personal matter. so i do not actually disagree, as such, with pankkake.
mircea_popescu: anyone mind quoting the source material ?
Framedragger: (in truth, not the best of analogies)
Framedragger: you know, i recall shitty philosophy students dissing entire philosophical works by just calling them "platonic". can't really do justice by generalizing like that, can you now
asciilifeform: then none.
mircea_popescu: what's the ideology.
scriba: You need to give me a link to a specific IRC line so it can be quoted. Use either "from:line_number" or an anchor ("#line_number").
shinohai: I used a willie bot a long time ago, was rather good
Framedragger: btw ftr i want to thank punkman for recommending sopel bot (previously willie, if anyone's heard of it) as the core irc bot to be used. it's properly maintained, has clean code and good docs. https://sopel.chat/
Framedragger: (sorry about log spam - i'll fork the bot into a development branch (new features and bugfix tests) which will run on a separate test channel.)
asciilifeform: and if i were to post it, i'm not certain that the reaction in readers would be very different from this case.
asciilifeform: the sheer ~height~ of this pile, almost approaches my hdd.
asciilifeform: 'fim' is their forum.
jhvh1: ben_vulpes: Naiad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naiad>; NAIADS (Naiades) - Fresh-Water Nymphs of Greek Mythology: <http://www.theoi.com/Nymphe/Naiades.html>; Naiad Dynamics - Yacht Stabilizers Boat Stabilizers Ship Stabilizer ...: <http://www.naiad.com/>
ben_vulpes: what even is going on there
ben_vulpes: alice_ brings the real real
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
trinque: There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest. << does seem that most psychological issues involve deep dishonesty.
asciilifeform: alice_: http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it << some introductory material.
asciilifeform: alice_: if you generated it on keybase, they have your private.
asciilifeform: the longfp.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am sorry for playing with the food.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
alice_: i know that's the log
alice_: asciilifeform: i am very confused by the social environment here :P
BingoBoingo: alice_: Well no you aren't because there's lots of logs to read that you haven't. Go back to step2.
jhvh1: 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
BingoBoingo: k, then
BingoBoingo: alice_: Then go to
BingoBoingo: Whether God as you understand him is Satan, Our Noodly host, or deedbot
BingoBoingo: alice_: Not Xtianity, bolt it onto the belief system of your choice
BingoBoingo: Many tried to find an easier, softer way, but they could not.
jhvh1: 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
jhvh1: 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
trinque: well I already mentioned another
alice_: tell me about the thing you're confusing me with, i am curious
trinque: asciilifeform: they made more than one y'know
alice_: i don't mind pressing s and d at the same time, myself
mircea_popescu: god almighty, it's like a pregnant idiot delivered stupid all over the fucking logs already.
trinque: or describing the damned value
alice_: if they're smart enough to use a standard pronoun :P
alice_: then you are a person whose right hand gets tired and you should not use this exact system
alice_: yes. if the keys are pressed within a small number of milliseconds.
asciilifeform: what then.
asciilifeform then notices mirror.
asciilifeform: alice_: where do you keep the lambda on your physical kbd ?
trinque: there's a whole genre of japanese porn of this
asciilifeform: who had the honour of being suspected of being gabriel_laddel-in-his-cups
alice_: asciilifeform: ? like, if i paste the last several lines into it, i get \n -#'-:<>?LMX[\]-\_a-pr-zʳʷʸζᴱᴵᴼᴾ-ᵂᵉᵒᵖ-ᵘⁱ│
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nobody's claiming the dollars are ever well spent, or that fucking is done in some new way
alice_: asciilifeform: prints a regex character class which matches all of the code points in utf8 stdin
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as opposed to well-spent on other missions?
ben_vulpes: "hooo boy lemme tell you about the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on *that* mission!"
ben_vulpes: typeset properly and segregated vault-reading from home-reading as the story goes
asciilifeform: alice_: https://github.com/alice0meta/scratch/blob/master/regex_set.ζ << what, then, is this?
alice_: asciilifeform: never used any of those. a fan of some of their patterns. i'm a fan of a lot of patterns i've seen in a lot of different existing programming environments.
ben_vulpes: and also, approximating his words "look with all the software problems they'd already delivered in the planes i wasn't about to impose more on the poor pilots during their studies. plus, opportunity to hose the suppliers."
ben_vulpes: subject of manuals, a onetime airforce honcho straigh up vetoed the delivery of f22 manuals in xml (!), as pilots couldn't take the un-sensitive stuff home without also taking the sensitive stuff home as it was delivered
mircea_popescu: but since it's invertible compiler day, http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-russia-china-should-fear-americas-littoral-combat-ships-17440
ben_vulpes: ofc blame it on the crew, what is lockheed to deliver serviceable machines with complete manuals all of a sudden?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i recall a month or so ago when this happened and they tried to blame it on the crew.
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, womenz also can't keep seawater out of their engine lube system, which is why surffucking is so strictly limited to teenagers.
ben_vulpes: one apparently destroyed an engine ("engineering casualty") and another hosed it's combining gears?!
mircea_popescu: how many were they ? a dozen yet ?
ben_vulpes: in other news, the much-maligned littoral combat ships can't keep water out of their engine lube systems and so the surface force commander has ordered the entire 'fleet' stand down
alice_: i'm alice. i haven't interacted with this channel before. but i don't imagine that's the answer you're hoping for
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [01:56:09] <asciilifeform> i could live the rest of my life without infix, quite happily.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:111/to:111#111 << it's funny that THIS antipattern you recognize. yes, it's the macula of intellectual degeneracy ; and not coincidentally rapspeech is fulla infixen.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [01:53:54] <alice_> afaict christopher alexander is using "pattern" to mean a basic component of language, not the thing which macros remove
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:102/to:102#102 << guy does what usians are known for, take random item from the scenery, write his name on it, strut around proudly.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [01:06:18] <asciilifeform> 'Really, I think it’s too late for mainstream “Linux”. It’s gone. It’s done. Geeks of the world were easily fooled by a shiny new toy and a corporate propaganda campaign to match, without considering the engineering implications. You can still use a real (systemd-free) version of Linux, or move toward the BSDs, but if you stay with the
boolcrap: he is actually the most interesting man alive
alice_: & the syntax is similar to a literal keyboard when possible
alice_: the program structure is similar to its syntax. in this case, the code for shift is ⇧ and can be typed by ⏻⇧
alice_: i seriously tried lisp, i spent hundreds of hours coding in a variety of lisps, including clojure (ugh) and arc (lovely but it was for a production web server and it was completely unsuited to the purpose)