asciilifeform: like any other alchemy.
asciilifeform: trinque: idea is that a unit of hashicity might cost you, i, and 1,000,001 others -- H, but might cost 'satoshi' 1/1,000,001H.
mircea_popescu: yeah, it wouldn't be kept in pants THAT well is the problem. your argument is solid in principle, but there's a crack in it.
trinque: but I see that either construction ignores fucking privately
trinque: asciilifeform: ftr the argument wasn't about whether kept in pants; it was that if kept in pants, might as well not exist
trinque: then no-mining is possible with a philospher king
mircea_popescu: see, this is how the cunt that runs on perl works. "oh, dick moving inside is detectable".
trinque: the free heat shall leak
mircea_popescu: this was the mechanism fucking babylon fell by, and in the intervening 5k years it worked like a charm every single time.
mircea_popescu: if men are better and women worship men, the situation is stable and prosperous. if men are better but women discover they can fuck it all up by gathering together and engaging in the wail (term of art), then society collapses
trinque: nor is "usg shall surely be able to increase interest rates to mop up the money it printed"
asciilifeform: 'there are no alchemists because an alchemist could not POSSIBLY keep it in his pants' is no argument.
trinque: the claim was that infinite gold/coin/etc shows itself through inflation
mircea_popescu: subjective value, as judged by you ? it doesn't. objective value, as in, the ship of state is being sailed by idiots into the shoals ? 100%.
asciilifeform: trinque: ditto the amd signing key from last month's thread.
trinque: mircea_popescu: while it stays hidden how does it affect the value of gold?
asciilifeform: no alt stands a remote change against 'grandfather's pistol' unless the author also discovers and demonstrates a 'proof of nonchiseling' .
trinque: and it would have the same effect
trinque: I would have the greatest self control on earth if I found more gold tomorrow than had ever been mined and this did not soon become apparent to everyone.
asciilifeform: that'll simply reset the problem.
mircea_popescu: besides, at some point we'll get rid of sha2 in trb, and then we'll know.
asciilifeform: trinque: i suspect that our null hypotheses differ.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that part is the most dubious, but hey.
trinque: where is the evidence
asciilifeform: you - yes, me - yes ; fella with the sha2 pill - ~0.
asciilifeform: trinque: see thread. mining is not provably costing all of the participants anything.
trinque: how the fuck, economics does not work that way
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which is moronic if there is any way to avoid it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's the other angle of it though. mining forces you to burn half your milk.
asciilifeform: like the rest of crypto.
asciilifeform: accomplishes ~same result as author of coin personally handing out the monetary base, but messier and more expensively.
ben_vulpes: the infinite to bitcoin's finite, if you will.
mircea_popescu: difficulty is a proxy for "are we there yet ?" ; once half the energy available is burned to mine, we're there yet. the difficulty equiv of this can be calculated.
mircea_popescu: but there's naught more abundant in nature than time.
asciilifeform: scarce in the 'nobody is obviously wielding an infinite hose of it' sense.
asciilifeform: but, in the customary picture, something scarce.
asciilifeform: recall the multiverse 'coin' ?
mircea_popescu: teh gods demand their sacrifice.
asciilifeform: there are, theoretically, schemes for mineless coin that do not resolve to any obviously idiotic or centralized thing.
asciilifeform: the orbit of my personal inner altcrackpot is largely around 'mining is a bug'.
mircea_popescu: yes, there's no such thing as perfect bitcoin wrt work functions.
asciilifeform: well, 'do the hash' + 'not get orphaned'
mircea_popescu: as opposed to you know, bitcoin, where if you do the hash you get the coin, anyone else be damned.
mircea_popescu: the objection never was as far as i can discern that linus did it (unless of course one is to give voice to the "feminist" cows), but that he seems to have given the keys away
asciilifeform: (and was not merely premined, but the 'btcphobic' mr mold had 'coins', of which there are only 256, die ! after 9 moves.)
mircea_popescu: which ties right into the above discussion of altcoin heads (they can't meaningfully criticize means they can't think) and more generally in the difference between republican forum and imperial forum (eg, reddit). the latter exists specifically so no work is done.
asciilifeform: was interesting, when it was interesting, ~in spite of~, not because, of the premine.
mircea_popescu: you mean generally or here ? iirc urbit was eagerly followed for 3-4 weeks here, until it became obvious the author is technically inept and the following he has entirely disinterested in doing any useful work.
asciilifeform: aaand yet the alts where author simply pocketed the monetarybase and distributed by hand from own pocket - were laughed off.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 22:53 asciilifeform: as i see it , this is not satisfactorily solvable, the author cannot prove that he did not retain a crib sheet to the keyz.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557358 << kinda what makes bothering with p2p in this particular subspace pointless.
mircea_popescu: less so than eg ethereum.
mircea_popescu: they're on doge team or ripple team like other people support coventry or wolverhampton. it's to their dumb head immoral to switch teams because the others got better players. ON THE CONTRARY.
mircea_popescu: the most symptomatic point being that they absolutely fucking never have any kind of reason to dislike anything. ever saw an altcoin head meaningfully discuss the drawbacks in alternatives ?
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 22:49 asciilifeform: unrelated to any of this, i recently went on a dig re crackpot altcoins, and was again disappointed, much of the phase space was never explored. for instance, it does not appear that anyone ever tried a 'captain kidd' alt
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557353 << well, it's sad, but i can't say i'm disappointed, because i had no expectation otherwise. the psychology of the alt-coin purveyor is very much as exemplified by that covertress chick : ambitious, mommy told her she's special which she believes, and "problems" "can always be overcome". preferably - by someone else. you know, what's washington gonna do about it.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 20:28 trinque: hm, perhaps the problem is one is thinking of completely untrustworthy flat topography of grey-goo nodes, and the other, in-wot nodes?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557323 << possibly the implication of wot not fully digested as of yet.
mircea_popescu: spooked the party even
mircea_popescu: a sort of localbrew punk/skinhead of the 70s
asciilifeform: much to the lament of jurov et al
mircea_popescu: much as the muslim world also does.
mircea_popescu: also for the sake of humanity, "The teleology of this phenomena should probably begin" is a broken sentence. a teleology is any theory of purpose in realia. so you could say "any attempt if describing the teleology of this phenomena should probably begin" or "the teleology of this phenomena should be expressed in terms of" etc. it dun work like "description" or "philosophy", it works like for "substance" or "relevancy".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what was the face-busting cultural identification earlier ?
asciilifeform: phf: they dun have dst in mircea_popesculandia
phf: there's an hour disparity between mp's tmsr-logs and btcbase, so i need to figure that one out..
mircea_popescu: not really. facedots get circles once you finally got the fucker, for isntance.
asciilifeform: even among prisoners, there are only 2-3 usefully distinct types.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, they never got semantic, a la ru prison tattoos. most girls got what today'd be called "tribal" shit
mircea_popescu: and i'd have busted your face on the street.
phf: asciilifeform: do you have some of your very old logs, can you grep for "sawdust in the gearbox, apparently timeless." and let me know what timestamp on that is?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was there a typical tat ?
mircea_popescu: this i suspect is the ancient, tribal, functional usage. "modern" my left foot.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, no hymen = fair game. and as there was need for easy visual identification to know whom to invite to parties... the sluts got inked.
mircea_popescu: anyway. when i was a kid, tattoos meant a thing and that thing only : she fucks. there exists no majority age in romania, a girl's a woman the moment she starts doing it, which can happen as early as 12, though as a rule it's more around 15.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 20:18 phf: "The teleology of this phenomena should probably begin with the first modern group of women to get tattoos [...]"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557293 << the question eschewed, of course, is why "modern". and what;s it supposed to mean. very strange sort of amateur anthropology.
asciilifeform: it is a form of theoretically-undetectable 'premine'.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the (very old) gedankenexperiment concerned 'what if solving hashes is substantially cheaper than we chumps believe it to be, and promulgator of the coin knows the pill'
asciilifeform: into the ovens.
thestringpuller: Ah. Atomically. Def. That's in the paper.
asciilifeform: there exists no proof that finding, e.g., sha2 collision, MUST take ~C cycles per.
asciilifeform: it was a feature that derps pretend is in bitcoin, but never made it in, made fools of themselves
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'locktime' has 0 to do with crypto
thestringpuller: well isn't solving a block the same as finding a time delay crypto puzzle?
asciilifeform: if i owned the closet hasher, i would also carry right along 'consenting', aha.
thestringpuller: everyone involved somehow consents the puzzle is legit...
thestringpuller: the only way to do that would be through some kinda consensus mechanism
asciilifeform: the burden of proof is on whoever asserts existence.
thestringpuller: you can't prove the trap door function doesn't exist cause you can't prove you don't know the keys to the puzzle
asciilifeform: (for one thing, the actual existence of trapdoors has not been demonstrated.)
asciilifeform: and quite likely there can be none.
asciilifeform: there is no 'trapdoor problem' for which 'intrinsic hardness' has been demonstrated.
thestringpuller: iirc this was in 2012 logs, cause i remember you saying similar situation to "nLockTime" (altho we discovered more turds there upon further inspection)
asciilifeform: to put it in more familiar frame, there is no way to prove that the majority of the bitcoin hash rate is not in fact happening on a pocket comp.
thestringpuller: well the paper is from 1996, it was just intriguing how familiar to PoW it was
asciilifeform: the basic concept is at least as old as ol' capt. kidd.
asciilifeform: as i see it , this is not satisfactorily solvable, the author cannot prove that he did not retain a crib sheet to the keyz.
asciilifeform: the cryptographic mega-puzzler would be re how 'ck coin' could be 'provably fair' (i.e. the ciphertexts provably represent privkeys containing the entire monetary base, in aggregate )
asciilifeform: (i am almost wholly ignorant of how the latter mechanically works - so possibly not)
asciilifeform: i.e. one where all of the coin is premined, but allocated into 'chests', published as privkeys enciphered in such a way as to be bruteforceable with reasonable effort
asciilifeform: unrelated to any of this, i recently went on a dig re crackpot altcoins, and was again disappointed, much of the phase space was never explored. for instance, it does not appear that anyone ever tried a 'captain kidd' alt
mircea_popescu: the overhead is : i encrypt 1 number, and communicate 127 numbers to 127 people then their responses to 127 people.
mircea_popescu: yes but even then
mircea_popescu: anyway. the main problem with the algo described being that if i want to multiply 2^2^7-1 with 2^2^11-1 i'm stuck requesting 340282366920938463463374607431768211455 discrete additions, which isn't worth doing in any possible universe.
asciilifeform: ('martian bank' being simply a naive abstraction of 'idealizes swiss bank', where money supply is constant, and i can send from account a1 can send to a2 if and only if i have the privkey for a1, and double-spend - impossible, etc.)
asciilifeform: (this might be in the l0gz, but asciilifeform's own private, abortive, and ~entirely pointless attempt to 'invent bitcoin' in 2005-6 involved 'homomorphotron' (did not at the time know the term, or of anyone else's work on subj) that simulates 'martian bank' as ordinary computer program but somehow executed 'crypto-blinded' by multitude of independent machines, with the aggregate behaving correctly so long as collusion is below lampo
asciilifeform: prolly the usual overcompensation for spamolade.
trinque: hm, perhaps the problem is one is thinking of completely untrustworthy flat topography of grey-goo nodes, and the other, in-wot nodes?
asciilifeform: which is you you need the branch
asciilifeform: other, unrelated observation, is that delegating computation with a homomorphotron is only +ev if you spend fewer cycles to encipher 'the question' and decipher 'the answer' than it would have taken you to carry out the entire computation in your own comp
asciilifeform: if it relies on my being able to send packet from my house without it being immediately logged, some fraction of the time, then i personally cannot much profit from the scheme.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if one "reduced" to all then set theory would be a funny place indeed.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-19 23:51 mircea_popescu: btw phf did you load the old archives yet ?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-19#1556932 << i started chipping at the code to get the old log support working, probably a couple of days worth of work
asciilifeform: can't speak for other folx, but i personally sit in a kettle.
mircea_popescu: this is a fundamental strategical choice, and it is not getting reviewed. which is why there isn't a geographical republic.
asciilifeform: either it will make sense - or not
asciilifeform: i would rather leave it as exercise to the patient reader, mircea_popescu et al, than press it
mircea_popescu: for all i know the guy has a point ; but we've not to date managed to put it in terms i can read.
mircea_popescu: trinque he has a serious issue with things that i don't yet fully grok, but i can not presently distinguish from this irrational meltdown and the irrational meltdown on the gossipd spec.
mircea_popescu: i'm not interested in the branching, will be happy to have a bignum machine that's securely separable via uci.
trinque: mircea_popescu is afaik proposing the communication of these is encrypted; asciilifeform is seeing them transmitted in teh bare
phf: "The teleology of this phenomena should probably begin with the first modern group of women to get tattoos [...]"
asciilifeform: let's temporarily leave this part for later, and posit that mircea_popescu can both add and multiply homomorphically, via whatever means. i'd like to hear how he carries out the branching.
mircea_popescu: http://blog.jim.com/culture/why-women-get-tattooed/#comments << in other news, holy shit check out the ream of experts in women.
asciilifeform: this gedankenexperiment strikes me as quite similar to the one where you 'defeat' 2nd law of thermo. by dumping heat into a black hole, and similar.
mircea_popescu: it is. in order for you to get the whole set you must a) break rsa keys as numerous as the whole set and b) magically intercept all communications, even those happening outside of any set that includes you.
asciilifeform: (neither has, of course, rsa.)
asciilifeform: if you know the total set of A-asked-B, you can put bounds on what was done.
mircea_popescu: from the fact that A asks B to p-add P1 and P1 you can not distinguish whether P1 is being multiplied or added. that you can't distinguish between these two means you have 0 bits, not > 0 bits.
asciilifeform: (and we still have not arrived at the question of how to branch)
mircea_popescu: the scheme presented isn't in any sense what you describe.
asciilifeform: aite. (i dun even dispute that a scheme where multiple parties are used for obfuscatory/smoke purposes ~can be useful~ - but it is not crypto in the normal sense. stego, perhaps.)
mircea_popescu: this is a very abstruse spoke off an interesting discussion. i dun really want to follow it. can we get back to the point ?
asciilifeform: would you still think that rsa were strong, if it sufficed to, say, collect 90% of the ciphertext that's left your house, to derive the privkey ?
asciilifeform: this is rather like the 'send the new key and signature in one shot' thread. crypto that dun work if the enemy watches both of your hands, ain't crypto.
mircea_popescu: in other words : paillier in UCI over gossipd seems capable of bignum.
mircea_popescu: let's try once more. so, I want to multiply 3 by 3. suppose the encrypted form of 3 is fgh.
asciilifeform: this dun work with paillier. or any other known scheme.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what you're on about. again : i want to multiply C1 by C2. I fire up the UCI, i ask C2 processes to add C1 to the result of the previous process adding C1 to the result of the...
mircea_popescu: what's the problem though ?
asciilifeform: homomorphic-under-addition just means that you can take C1, C2, encrypted ints P1, P2, and get C3, encrypted sum, that decrypts later to the correct sum of P1+P2
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 18:15 asciilifeform: in other vintage lulz, https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/surreptitiously.html#c1746484 << 'little birds' tell me that this actually happened. but no proof. anyone got electron microscope and too much free time ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557132 << guess why "whitening" is so important for the imperials.
asciilifeform: (which is to say, are actual branches, visible to the naked eye, based on the outcome of the magic box)
asciilifeform: and the branches take place 'in plaintext'.
asciilifeform: nah, it 'solves' the same way all of the imbeciles in darpa's homomorphotron pig trough 'solved.'
asciilifeform: (i was only able to see 'solution' from the shithub code, the paper is everywhere paywalled. and this somehow passes as a 'source' for pediwik et al..)
asciilifeform: based on the most obvious scheme, that i toyed with as a student, paillier (see oooooold l0gz)
trinque: is the timecube guy not lying?
asciilifeform: 'Urbit is a total scamcoin. It's 100% premined TLDR: yeah. But at least it's not the DAO.'
deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2016/the-best-things-in-eulora-are-grimy/ << The Whet - The Best Things in Eulora are Grimy
asciilifeform: 'TLDR: all of computing is a hoax. You can't compare a hoax to nothing. You can only compare it to all the other hoaxes.'
mircea_popescu: the schmuck in casa rosada is very much a dmitry ovsyannikov.
asciilifeform: i wonder, did they actually import american hardware, or contracted to have own, 'industria argentina' dieboldtrons birthed ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557039 << this was a major point of contention during previous elections. guy published (ridiculous, web based xss) flaw in their voting thing, everyone threw a hissy fit
asciilifeform: the sop algo, aha.
mircea_popescu: anyway. that the matriarchy always builds some sort of reddit, which is to say the female hujra, pointless-blather-house is much of a historical necessity ; much like how the matriarchy's annoyance at ~what trump represents~ necessarily expressed itself in terms of fantastic "rape".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sometimes i suspect you might have been the only one at your kindergarten :)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile patriarchy is an arrangement among the best in society, who are strong, inconsequential, and careless. they tend to spend a lot of time doing, which is purpose without speech, and dedicate themselves to raping the women and tearing down anything taller than themselves.
mircea_popescu: and since we're on it, let's define terms. matriarchy - an arrangement built among the worst in society, who are weak, inconsequential, ambitious and envious. they tend to spend a lot of time gossiping - which is speech without purpose - and dedicate themselves to a very pedestrian sort of magico-technology, aiming to protect, their worthless flesh as well as their miserable progeny. this necessarily decays into a quest for c
asciilifeform: 'tischgespräche im führerhauptquartier' and other sources strongly suggest that ~their~ airplane - was of straw.
mircea_popescu: and since it's been mentioned, let it be said i'm rather suspicious of this fuhrerprinzip business also. nazis WERE socialists, by their own lights, and the fact that they desired a matriarchy stylistically irreconcilable with the matriarchy in power in england does not make them men, or respectable.
mircea_popescu: (and for bonus lulz - according to THEMSELVES, the pashtun are jews. unlike the people you and i know as jews, who are idiots, the good jews from afghanistan heard of the last prophet and sent envoys to muhammad.)
mircea_popescu: there is absolutely nothing but this to glue together eg t aquinas and jonas the prophet
asciilifeform: the actualities - correct, are quite similar, to sane eye.
mircea_popescu: this is how metaphysics, or christianity, etc even became subjects in the first place
mircea_popescu: well i dunno about that. the point being, if two works purport to describe items that can not be distinguished, it then stands that the two works are about the same thing.
asciilifeform: if we're dabbling in telepsychiatry, then the subject is what the patient hallucinated, rather than the actual objects that were in front of him at the time.
asciilifeform: esr's 'cathedral' is an imbecilic indictment of führerprinzip ;
mircea_popescu: physically the same people, ideologically the same agenda, financially the exact same "money", wherein lies the distinguishing ?
asciilifeform: imho it is useful to distinguish pickpocket from rustler, even if both are hanged with the same type of rope on the same tree on same day etc.
mircea_popescu: the whole "this is how the matriarchy does it, this is how it should be done - because the matriarchy in all times and places is so much frozen shit" is not liable to change over time.
asciilifeform: this, he did not try to hide. but his 'cathedral' is american (and, post-1945, 'internashiinnal komyooniti') academia/press.
mircea_popescu: what he does is the very americansky "i buy old books and rewrite them in my own hand, nobody'd ever know"
trinque: I'm aware of the latter
mircea_popescu: not in the slightest. i daresay there is not one thing that originates with the curtis yarvin fellow.
asciilifeform: mr mold was quite specific about which 'cathedral', 0 to do with esr's.
trinque: where does he define this Cathedral thing
asciilifeform: 'As you know “the international community” is denouncing Russia’s use of bunker buster bombs as a war crime. There is a rebel video on you tube examining the hole made by a bunker buster. Looks like the bomb blast went through two meters of concrete to blow up inside a bunker. Somehow I doubt that you will find all that many civilians under two meters of concrete inside a bunker. But I rather suspect you might find a few memb
asciilifeform: in other vintage lulz, https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/surreptitiously.html#c1746484 << 'little birds' tell me that this actually happened. but no proof. anyone got electron microscope and too much free time ?
trinque: looking back over recent history, maybe a guy asks himself why the government stopped pushing the clipper chip.
trinque: Framedragger: I had old school thinkpads; I was mocking your implication that it meant anything about whether the hardware was diddled
thestringpuller: writing a program for it felt a lot liek telling the computer to play a tape...
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: and on every sane piece of single-purpose hardware ever made.
asciilifeform: (and then you get interrupts serviced even under msdos with interrupt flag off)
Framedragger: yeah, linux audio folks have these suggestions to "run everything on a realtime kernel", which is probably akin to pouring a bit of water (which may or may not be mixed with gasoline) on a large fire.
asciilifeform: the 'msdos way' to do audio was the sane way - 'what i write to this-here-address comes out the DAC immediately.'
Framedragger: (in one of his talks karmack did complain that (something like) "it's still ridiculous that i can send a packet to another continent than i can send a click to my sound card!" - basically, multiple middlware layers are involved and it's a bit.. stinky. but at least one can stick to a good API and reduce the headache..)
Framedragger: which is something i'd like to avoid; but if i can't - then i guess it's still the best thing available
Framedragger: thestringpuller: yeah you're totally right and i really like the api - it's nice! it does seem that to make sure everything incl hrtf works on a person's PC it needs to be installed to system dirs and then linked dynamically as folks had problems with static linking; and apparently for windows the 'proper' way to do it is to first install creative's openal version, and *then* install openal-soft on top
Framedragger: the -soft fork of openal seems very decent enough. i was hoping for something high/lazy-level for graphics so i don't have to deal too much with it (it'd be just 2d shapes anyway, no textures etc, super simplistic), and lower-level for audio so i can mess around with it. openal-soft as of now best contender
Framedragger: thestringpuller: yeah fair enough
Framedragger: unity hsa this oculus audio sdk which does HRTF and everything, but no occlusion. openal-soft does the latter as well as HRTF
Framedragger: thestringpuller: pyglet for prototyping (yes yes python & graphics wtf), later - i do not know, i considered unity for prototyping, too (fat thing, that, yes). for ease of sake, very likely sdl for graphics and events, but not set.
Framedragger: in unrelated news/queries, game audio has deteriorated in the last 10 years. used to be proper 3d positional audio. am trying to build a shitty 2d top-down thingie with proper HRTF etc for audio, don't suppose anyone has any recommendations? if worx on linux, enough in principle. linux + osx + windows = ideal
Framedragger: but then how can you hax0r.
asciilifeform: (better yet, in the daytime)
Framedragger: i too learned to type in was it 3rd grade :p but the light is aw3some. seriously tho, yeah it's not powerful at all
Framedragger: i actually like to have a sticky note near palm to scribble upon. in the dark
Framedragger: it's for the win.
asciilifeform: y'know, folx like walter schellenberg, who joined ss simply because of the spiffy uniform and 'good career perspective'
asciilifeform: the sort of fella who wants to be, where 'it's at' by his dim lights.
asciilifeform: works, as far as i can tell, for the self-importance monkey riding on his back.
asciilifeform: folks ask regularly, because the d00d is 'everywhere'.
thestringpuller: "A Hiwi was a foreigner who volunteered to serve the Nazis."
asciilifeform: 'Acknowledgements: Gregory Maxwell and Pieter Wuille for most of the ideas in this BIP. Bryan Bishop for editing.'
thestringpuller: unsurprising coming from the power rangers
Framedragger: five back-and-forth messages, hmh. also "For privacy reasons, dropping the connection or aborting during the authentication process must not be allowed. " sounds stupid to me
jhvh1: thestringpuller: Error: "s" is not a valid command.
Framedragger: (and lenovo published their own 'Lenovo LSE Windows Disabler Tool'). [sorry i'm sure this is in the logz - i'm behind on stuff..]
Framedragger: "a file called "wpbbin.exe" was placed in C:\windows\system32 and executed. That turns out to be a method Microsoft introduced with Windows 8 to allow the BIOS to execute code on boot up (!?!) called "Windows Platform Binary Table (WPBT)"." gotta love M$
Framedragger: "More worrisome part of the feature is that it injects software that updates drivers, firmware, and other pre-installed apps onto Windows machine – even if you wiped the system clean." LOL
Framedragger: (still not sure if that rootkit is basically same as superfish. the latter is just in software as i take it; the former is a lenovo superduper software update solution which can download the latter(?) and resides in BIOS which is scary)