asciilifeform: in asciilifeform's judgement, the retardation is pulled in ~by the protocol per se~ . but folx are welcome to try an' prove wrong.
mp_en_viaje: i also do not believe that going about in ox-drawn carts with "Mercedesuzuki" spray-painted on the sides "will aid people to migrate to cars later" or anything
asciilifeform: imho if stuck with ugly piece of shit, would still rather have one w/out the nulltermstring, buf overrun, offbyone, etc. bugola. but i see mp_en_viaje's pt
mp_en_viaje: i don't specifically care re the culprint ; but i do not see the wisdom of having a lisp server if it looks like that. for one thing, if you just make it honest c more people can be found to debug it.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at one time in '17 asciilifeform tried hand at writing basic ada www server. ended up burning it all. because ended up looking quite like 'hunchentoot', and quite evidently 'water took the shape of the bottle', i.e. inescapably
a111: Logged on 2019-08-01 15:40 asciilifeform: spyked: imho your 'hunchentoot' vivisection illustrates important point : just how much of the complexity of that thing is on acct of idjit tcpism's shit abstractions, i.e. the lengths to which it goes to pretend that the machines aint exchanging short packets in quasi-reliable ordering
mp_en_viaje: it's the exact equivalent of enunciating english words with an o at the end to speako el mexicano, understando ?
mp_en_viaje: why the fuck is this hunchenback even written in lisp ? it's pure python, why not just write it in python and be happy.
mp_en_viaje: in other scandal, by the time i hit "[wafs] wake-acceptor-for-shutdown" in spyked 's story i'm so fucking pissed off i can't even continue reading.
mp_en_viaje: right. validate your theme and see.
mp_en_viaje: if it works there it's almost certain such a subtle error in your theme, as an uncliosed div or span or such
asciilifeform: epic win, btw, the server-end highlighter. i'ma put it in my www as soon as have a free finger or two
mp_en_viaje: shrysr, indeed, wanna try the select on my page on yoru browsers ?
mp_en_viaje: shrysr, the current theory seems to be indeed his : your page is subtly broken somewhere else, which makes this not work on some browsers but not others. put it through validators see if you can find the unclosed tag or we/
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:23 asciilifeform: the 'postel's law' nonsense, of silently forgiving people who send liquishit at the dusty disused corners of the protocol, enabling there to even ~be~ such a thing as dusty corners in a protocol!, MUST die.
asciilifeform: shrysr: i suspect there's an unclosed tag somewhere
mp_en_viaje: shrysr, nfi why it doesn't work on your machine. indeed the solution should be browser independent. maybe they broke the spec ?
shrysr: mp_en_viaje: i thought the 2nd solution browser independent? I'm using the firefox dev edition
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i thought progression were more usually e.g. x -> y -> rapper -> p -> q -> beggar rather than x -> beggar -> y
mp_en_viaje: shrysr, must be the browser, because it works as expected here.
mp_en_viaje: note : this guess is bolstered by sampling conversation with a lot of their "girlfriends"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( what does beggar do if 'not meet goal' ?? on street corner, he could walk to new corner. but what's the 'patreon' equiv ?? ) << Actual pichis pointedly can't walk to any other corner as they wish because bum fights
shrysr: mp_en_viaje: I implemented the 2nd article's directions - just tried... not working on my browser
asciilifeform: ( what does beggar do if 'not meet goal' ?? on street corner, he could walk to new corner. but what's the 'patreon' equiv ?? )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what does this mean , for beggar to have 'goal' ? maybe i'm thick, but i thought 'goal' was to fill the hat with as many coins as possible erry day ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: caught any ? << Caught a deep impression that US, EE, and SA poverteneur goals are converging to the same 400 USD/month
mp_en_viaje: usually it's other way around
mp_en_viaje: this might be the first time i actually get to say to engineer that reported complete failure "oh, actually, it works ?!"
mp_en_viaje: shrysr, https://s.ragavan.co/2019/07/failed-to-implement-the-line-selection-to-url-hack/?b=Summary&e=estimate#select << works fine ?
asciilifeform of the 'get the cheapest astrologist' school of thought , on those occasions when must use email
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: also their pw reset mechanism is broken, i've been trying to log in & cancel acct for 3+ yrs nao (erry 6mo or so) and been to their india-powered 'support line' even. no dice.
mp_en_viaje: and they know to send it from bingo@patreon ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: they send spam like it's 1999 lol
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, asciilifeform somehow patreon sent unsolicited email to the email address i published earlier today
a111: Logged on 2019-08-01 09:21 mp_en_viaje: ahahaha what the everloving fuck! bingo@patreon ?!
a111: Logged on 2019-08-01 07:00 mp_en_viaje: btw, i got like 60 pingbacks from you, that are all dupes. i mean... http://trilema.com/2013/ripple-the-definitive-discussion/#comment-95245 exists, but now there;s also one from http://bingology.net/2013/09/26/anti-bitcoin-bitcoin-apps-part-3-gliph-in-particular/?b=Rippl&e=#select
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925907 << I noticed the blog was missing incoming some incoming trackback on older posts, so I poked the DB a bit.
asciilifeform: the 'session' abstraction aint even cardboard , it is toilet paper. yes, i get it, ftp or irc box might want to represent a user as having a 'session' that might time out etc. but why give 9000 flaky (or malicious) routers between the user & server the ability to close the session whenever ~they~ feel like it ?
asciilifeform: ^ i.e. there are at least ~4~ successive impedance-mismatched layers of liquishit , if you count ~server~ (e.g. hunchentoot) . ~5~ if you count reader's browser !
asciilifeform: fuckers who designed the L3 shit and the ones who specced the L4 shit didn't add enough, here come the L7 idiots who, not being satisfied with a "file transfer protocol" decide to "support" file transfers over HTTP; and since files may be as large as, say, 1TB, then yes, splitting them into small chunks is very much preferable to sending the whole thing right away.'
asciilifeform: 'Now, as if this wasn't enough, TCP also has a (transport layer) segment size, which must fit into a so-called "Maximum Segment Size" (MSS), which must be smaller than the MTU, because we also need to fit lower-layer headers and all that. Otherwise TCP isn't concerned too much with this, but misconfiguration can cause problems with congestion windows and whatnot, and we sure as hell don't want this shit to blow up. Finally, as if the
asciilifeform: will reproduce bit of spyked's text for the log :
asciilifeform: as if the ludicrous cpu & bw waste of tcp weren't enuff, it also conveniently groups (with said grouping being entirely plaintext) 'sessions' for hitler to moar conveniently store & read.
asciilifeform: ever wonder why heathens still fascinated, like chukchas with radio found in taiga, with 'bittorrent' ? it's because warez goes at ~line rate~ over 'bittorrent'. and at maybe 2/3 line rate on http on a good weather day. why? cuz bt , despite authored by idiot, ~let go of tcpism~ !
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 23:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking about it -- 'zxc' strikes me as a classic case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866191 and impedence mismatch generally. it was clearly written as attempt to 'deterministic scheduler on ??? iron/os', but fails, cuz you can't actually spackle away impedence mismatch b/w the underlying platform and the proggy
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 19:10 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs.
asciilifeform: the net aint a serial port!! it dun behave like a serial port! and the spackle dun do any good, it cracks and peels when you so much as blow on it
asciilifeform: tcp was a 'gift' of profound retardation that 'keeps on giving', even to moar obvious extent than e.g. unix. it is single-handedly responsible for ~100% of the backbreaking complexicrud of apache, ssh, ftp, etc
asciilifeform: spyked: imho put link to this thread, is even better than pasting the 'comment'
spyked: agreed re. tcpism, the "persistent connection" abstraction is entirely unfit for this kind of thing.
asciilifeform: on top of this : could just as easily serve a page from cluster of boxes instead of merely 1 (there's nothing preventing the slices from being generated wherever you want)
spyked: asciilifeform, sorry for the annoyance. will certainly do, but the effort to add comments is non-trivial. I'ma try to add structured commenting (box + comments section for each post) in a few weeks from now, but it'll still be a manually operated thing on my side for a while.
asciilifeform: then -- 'magically' -- no moar 'acceptors', 'streams', 'listeners', 'chunkings'...
asciilifeform: for yrs nao, asciilifeform thought, 'why the everliving fuck not serve page as a set of luby packets'
asciilifeform: 'acceptors', 'persistent connections', various streamisms, 'listeners', and other 'i can't believe it's not serialport!111' horros
asciilifeform: spyked: imho your 'hunchentoot' vivisection illustrates important point : just how much of the complexity of that thing is on acct of idjit tcpism's shit abstractions, i.e. the lengths to which it goes to pretend that the machines aint exchanging short packets in quasi-reliable ordering
mp_en_viaje: he did say he'll put them in manually.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-26 18:53 mp_en_viaje: im guessing for this one time http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fn1VH/?raw=true will have to be it ; but for the love of christ, what are you doing to me here ? am i going to simply ignore your articles because i know for a fact i'm not interestreded in reading something i can't comment on and you're forcing on me the dilemma of either not commenting at all or else losing it in pastes ? this won't do, if i use an hour to read a post i
asciilifeform: spyked: can pleeeez haz comments on your www ? ( at the risk of repeating mp_en_viaje's , srsly, 'no comment box' is quite discouraging in re reading)
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/098-hunchentoot-iv.html << The Tar Pit -- Hunchentoot: acceptor code review
mp_en_viaje: really there's no way to understand the wot outside of the general theory of the field it resolves, oracles and sybils and all that.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-28 23:01 mp_en_viaje: as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-01#1806991 tradition i don't even have enough information to distinguish between the case where "phf bleeding to death in a minsk ditch" ; "phf in love forgot all about world" ; "phf kidnapped by unreported alien invasion" or literally any other alternative. nfi how to approach it, either, tried everything i could think of.
mp_en_viaje: this is why the unknowns problem is an absolute bar to a high rating -- if people keep asking me questions about X that i can't answer, ima eventually drop their rating.
mp_en_viaje: lol in a concerted effort to not make mistakes, shrysr 's description of his understanding of the wot thing became significantly vague-r. and of course mistakes still make it in, eg "This rating represents what that person means to you in whatever way you like." is specifically untrue. the number you associated with a rating represens your guess at the likelihood that you will be able to answer a question about that party asked b
mp_en_viaje: early trilema articles were short ; then got longer and more involved over time
lobbes: though I must say, Pizarro uptime has proven to be far superior than any of the heathen options thus far
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: re: lobbesbot. The heathen VPS it is hosted on is migrating their servers. Hopefully will be back online in 24 hours (I didn't want 100% of my stuff on Pizarro; potential central point of failure and all)
mp_en_viaje: ahahaha what the everloving fuck! bingo@patreon ?!
mp_en_viaje: anyways ima publish all these bingology trackbkacs seeing how they use the neat select thing, improvement over old ver.
mp_en_viaje: in other old lulz, http://trilema.com/2014/cunt-size-discussion-this-is-guaranteed-to-be-weird/#footnote_1_53633
mp_en_viaje: btw, i got like 60 pingbacks from you, that are all dupes. i mean... http://trilema.com/2013/ripple-the-definitive-discussion/#comment-95245 exists, but now there;s also one from http://bingology.net/2013/09/26/anti-bitcoin-bitcoin-apps-part-3-gliph-in-particular/?b=Rippl&e=#select
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I'll dig up some code to restore recent comments to the sidebar
mp_en_viaje: defaulted on both. wtf fucked in the head/
mp_en_viaje: anyway. point remains, lmi, bolix, etc folk had absolute obligations : a) to work together ; b) to not work with morons.
mp_en_viaje: the dec wasn't evne that terribru
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: thinkin' moar re the 'monkeys' -- imho these were the folx continuing to build dec clones , crapples & other micros, and in the inevitable march to microshit hell. rather than the bolix/lmi folx. these, imho, did Right Thing. (even if ended by plugging embrasure with torso)
mp_en_viaje: but these are tiny tactical improvements, do not add up to stealth.
mp_en_viaje: some specific improvements are available where, eg, ship is not more than 20cm over surface, so the waves provide some protection from skimming missile
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: what even is the meaning of 'stealth ship' given satellite, cheap networked sonobuoys, etc ?
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 18:17 ave1: Btw would same stealth go for ships? It seems to me a dimension less. (Not that the littoral can float)
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925868 << out of the question, such a thing as "stealth ship". friction is 5th power of speed, 3rd power of density, a ship can never move fast enough to ever be stealth.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 18:15 ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925807, I did not know. Whole thread is the by far the best analysis I've read.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925866 << yes, kinda what the republic is. "best analysis anyone ever reads"
mp_en_viaje: this is moral obligation of man, not merely "mp is being vindictive" or w/e the pantsuit bullshit. man has moral obligation, unavoidable and indelible, to repress monkey.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 17:53 asciilifeform: it is entirely unclear to asciilifeform what either 'oughta have done instead', other than 'go home to bottle'. whole affair walked on the very edge of the technological possibility of the time -- and arguably stepped right over the edge of what was commercially practical
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925864 << all the men involved should have banded together, pointedly and specifically denied monkeys any cover.
BingoBoingo: ^ Big news is the Peso Argentino. from 0.55/1.15 to 0.70/1.00 in compra/venta
BingoBoingo: China's building destoryers by the 50 while playing with a second hand aircraft carrier
BingoBoingo: ave1: Ships are slow and mostly useful for how much they can emit in radar and missiles
ave1: Btw would same stealth go for ships? It seems to me a dimension less. (Not that the littoral can float)
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 08:37 mp_en_viaje: but, coincidentally, since they were building 1e5 rocket sites, they decided to also build 1e5 radars. cuz it makes sense, i guess, passibely, whatever.
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925807, I did not know. Whole thread is the by far the best analysis I've read.
asciilifeform: the 1 commercial variant that was defo nowhere near being on the table, was 'consumer'. when a MB of dram cost ~same as truck, there was no question that any such machine could be purchased by anyone other than large org. the only dispute could be re what kinda org sold to, and how.
asciilifeform: it is entirely unclear to asciilifeform what either 'oughta have done instead', other than 'go home to bottle'. whole affair walked on the very edge of the technological possibility of the time -- and arguably stepped right over the edge of what was commercially practical
asciilifeform: ( from strictly archaeological pov -- noftsker's bolix, with borrowed moneys, lived ~decade longer than lmi, and produced substantially moar interesting & intact ruins, but this is perhaps orthogonal to the orig q )
asciilifeform: and in light of e.g. http://trilema.com/2015/you-know-what-gets-no-airplay-unflattering-truth/ it aint even obvious to asciilifeform that 'hey they clearly oughta have all gone with noftsker'
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 17:00 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925827 << except it's not two agents, but more like three to five, and they behave like children in spite of being this current civilisation's specific heroes (id est, older men with knowledge). it's like if there was ru folk tale of "then the three ilya muromets fought each other like morons while potato blight took over the land"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925843 << must point out, this portrait is only visible in retrospect. the playing characters themselves were evidently quite convinced that they were fighting over a future mega-fortune, rather than bread crust
BingoBoingo: The derps are derping about a piece of paper from this spring as though it is some alfajor like establihed part of the culture.
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news, this Sunday is a pre-referendum on an October referendum to repeal the soon to be outgoing government's recent "lay trans"
mp_en_viaje: when you get to be the top man you get to be deemed to have "contribute at the margins" of ~everything, it's kinda what the definition of the term is in integrated world.
BingoBoingo: Obama did contribute at the margins by ending production of the F-22 which is very similar to the F-35 except that the 22 was designed to succeed as a plane without compromises because plane has to be designed to accomodate derps that want to plane from helicopter carriers
BingoBoingo: AHA, up until Clintons got out, things like stretched F-22 based light bomber were under consideration. All fell to the one true plane. Then McCain fell. Wat do?
mp_en_viaje: obama didn't do this bondogle ; pelosi was derpy but moderate and in general silent, clinton was rather supportive of better solution. the old women responsible are very much the (nowadays mostly imaginary) non-trump republicans
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 15:51 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925819 << Gulf War and Tailhook though were the impetus for the F-35 "Joint Strike Fighter" with a window free from fearing foreign men, the old women were able to push through a "one true plane" that excels at nothing.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925836 << this is quite factual ; the old women in this are mccain, [trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-antipsychotics-overprescribed-to-kids-adnotated/][grassley] etc.
mp_en_viaje: "It was not only born in my mind and heart, in that meeting held in March 1919 in the little hall at Milan, it was born of the profound and perennial need of this our Mediterranean "
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925829 << precisely ; and, to add dimensions to the comparison, exactly equal dying pretense to greatness in both cases etc.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925827 << except it's not two agents, but more like three to five, and they behave like children in spite of being this current civilisation's specific heroes (id est, older men with knowledge). it's like if there was ru folk tale of "then the three ilya muromets fought each other like morons while potato blight took over the land"
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 13:55 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925772 << sorta the promise of wunderwaffe pushers errywhere, neh. 'this'll be our maxim mg against them heathen's spears'
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925823 << yup, absolutely. the infuriating part is that this is actually true ~sometimes~, and it's extremely hard to distinguish when it'll be the case.
BingoBoingo: Then there's russia going all in on the air defense missiles. It's not the truck with 4 launch tubes in the press photos the US dun like. It's that the S-400 is a group of trucks, 1/3 of which have the big tubes and which coordinate together for a substantial radar picket
BingoBoingo: Along the way carrier based Joint Strike fighter F-18E/F "Fat Hornet" was ready in time to face goat herds in 2001 and cripple Iraq in 2003
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 08:55 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925770 << rather, led to perestroika, which did provide a breather (making the f19 possible, only time us shone in the air)
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925819 << Gulf War and Tailhook though were the impetus for the F-35 "Joint Strike Fighter" with a window free from fearing foreign men, the old women were able to push through a "one true plane" that excels at nothing.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 08:38 mp_en_viaje: this obsoletes "stealth" technology, because you can lie to a few people all the time but not to all the people all the time. there's no way to scatter radiation so that none of ~uknown-position~ 1e5 radars sees it. and with modern telecom and computing, it's trivial to link these so any can detect scatter from any.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925808 << on top of this : at some pt (if not already) the passive radar itself will fit inside cheap flying 'toy', of which there will be 'swarm' , rather than ye olde multi-kW sovok item on trucks etc.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 07:24 mp_en_viaje: happens to also be the only useful application of sintering known, but that aside.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925798 << there are sintered parts even in toyota. quite old tech by nao.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 08:38 mp_en_viaje: this means a race to the bottom, everyone who paid for stealth wants to get as much value from it right now before it's worthless completely.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 08:15 mp_en_viaje: fwiw, i've been re-reading the symbolics discussion, still just as fucking stumped on http://trilema.com/2018/the-symbolics-discussion/?b=now,%20why&e=they.#select as ever. a year passing has brought me no clarity.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 07:02 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925756 << in fairness though, the design of an object with particular refractive properties is necessarily more software than hardware -- it's the ultimate "measure 10mn times cut once" item, for each shape that ends up being built, 10e10 or 10e20 or w/e alternative shapes are investigated, ray-traced...
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925779 << iirc the moola was spent on the onboard soft. but i have nfi what relation this rumour has to fact.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 05:37 mp_en_viaje: they call it musket
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925772 << sorta the promise of wunderwaffe pushers errywhere, neh. 'this'll be our maxim mg against them heathen's spears'
a111: Logged on 2016-04-28 16:43 mircea_popescu: shinohai it should perhaps be added that a decade ago, when romania was fresh in nato etc, there was a joint exercise, with romania being designated the bad guy because they flew migs.
mp_en_viaje: but it seems, amusingly enough, this was reverted -- the new ru planes quite good (and the old ones still serviceable)
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925770 << rather, led to perestroika, which did provide a breather (making the f19 possible, only time us shone in the air)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 14:27 mircea_popescu: there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.
mp_en_viaje: people, once again, happened to have to do just what they seem to have been wanting to do anyway ; if this doesn't meet your criteria for benevolent divinity, then byoe.
mp_en_viaje: of the civilisational trend represented by above military discussion.
mp_en_viaje: and yes, like bourgeois of old paid to be in town, because have to upkeep walls, there's going to be "real man", who lives in rocket-defended perimeter ; and freeranged animal, outside. a trend already visible ~irrespective~ of the actual military evolution, described eg by mocky in quatar, by BingoBoingo in uruguay etc. walled compound is artefact of same cultural trend as here discussed ; and it arises prior to and independent
mp_en_viaje: usg-can-not-win-in-afghanistan will spell a "new era for peace" like the "japan can not defend homeland" spelled "new era for peace" : a different kind of peace ; one that involves the trade in recently captured 16yo precious cuntlets and all the fantastic stories of seafaring in the castle age.
mp_en_viaje: the integration trends, with "international order" and usg ngos "based on brain-kellog pact" bla bla will revert ; disintegration ("ghettoization" in butthurt fanfic) is the new trend ; this had been culturally visible for a while, but it took a sharp civilisational turn with this military development.
mp_en_viaje: the thing with cn-style rocket is that they're 100% defensive mechanism ; this fundamentally changes the rules of the game, reverting the situation (previously, tank, 100% assault mechanism, revolutionized the previous situation, fortification, 100% defensive, etc)
mp_en_viaje: this means a race to the bottom, everyone who paid for stealth wants to get as much value from it right now before it's worthless completely.
mp_en_viaje: this obsoletes "stealth" technology, because you can lie to a few people all the time but not to all the people all the time. there's no way to scatter radiation so that none of ~uknown-position~ 1e5 radars sees it. and with modern telecom and computing, it's trivial to link these so any can detect scatter from any.
mp_en_viaje: but, coincidentally, since they were building 1e5 rocket sites, they decided to also build 1e5 radars. cuz it makes sense, i guess, passibely, whatever.
mp_en_viaje: consequently, they covered every available surface in small rocket launchers. that's that, china is atm militarily immune to rest of the world.
mp_en_viaje: in 2000s, cn took 2nd strategic decision, that rockets many-and-tiny, as opposed to large-ish (scud) or huge (icbm). if you've ever played orion, this is equiv of the early "mir-v" revolution there, game changer.
mp_en_viaje: china became actor in 90s, took strategic decision that weapon of war is now rockets. this happens to be sound ; and it obsoleted the us model entirely, and the russian model partially (exceptionally good jets still useful, if you can provide the pilots -- ru can, cn can not).
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 01:21 asciilifeform: afaik is questionable whether item had 'difficulty' in this sense to begin with
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925767 << the only difficulty is that you have to know to build multi-radar pickets rather than mono-radar megaliths. this is where china was going anyway. here's the history of conflict in present day :
mp_en_viaje: fwiw, i've been re-reading the symbolics discussion, still just as fucking stumped on http://trilema.com/2018/the-symbolics-discussion/?b=now,%20why&e=they.#select as ever. a year passing has brought me no clarity.
mp_en_viaje: oh look at that, ever-so-useful monkey-man "spellchecker" doesn't approve of sintering. because holy shit, psychopaths, using words outside of the outer realms of monkey-man knowledges
a111: Logged on 2016-01-31 02:07 ascii_rear: BingoBoingo: watch the film at least until where the sintering machine appears
mp_en_viaje: isn't it "of fucking course" this is gonna cost way the fuck more than machining a flat surface out of silicon carbide ?
mp_en_viaje: then you're looking at 5 GB of data PER SHAPE. and the year is 1980, meaning 40MB hard drives are cool as fuck, and there's no such thing as SSD (read : they're fucking slow)
a111: Logged on 2019-01-04 17:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck didn't i think of that.
mp_en_viaje: if each of these produces a mb of data (and boy howdy, does it! for one thing... there's MULTIPLE radar bands, yes ? each of these scatters differently, because wavelength, and no, also not necessarily continuous function, because diffraction and other "unexpected" facepalms)
mp_en_viaje: now look at it : a circle is 360 degrees, so you'll have to "look at" (ie, run the differentials, calculate scatter) the object 72 times. once every five degees.
mp_en_viaje: so you talk it over with your boss, who doesn't know math which is why he's in charge of you (because he's unlikely to turn fucked in the head like ~everyone who knows math tends to), and you agree five degrees stepping and presumption of contiguity between. because fuck it, gotta decide something. (in reality more complex than this, but what can i do).
mp_en_viaje: "bright minds" / morons involved too busy http://trilema.com/2018/the-symbolics-discussion/ instead, whatever.
mp_en_viaje: could take a shape and produce the functionals. that's not even here NOW, in spute of how fucking obviously the right thing it was cca 1989 ie 30 years ago -- all the
mp_en_viaje: suppose they give you the money to try this. but you DO know how to calculate observable scatter from point to surface, but... it's not exactly a continuous function (trivially, because your surface is not continuous, you're not flyin ga sphere, and so not integrable, and moreover, you absolutely lack the '''mathematical computer''' that
mp_en_viaje: now, evidently this is useless to multi-radar systems -- but as long as you manage to keep secret what you're doing, so the others don't know how important multi-radaer and passive radar systems are, they'll prplly continue on the mega-radar trend of the 70s (as they did in the 80s) and miss you. for a decade or so.
mp_en_viaje: the radar.
mp_en_viaje: let's just go through this for the sake of being clear and explicit. so, suppose you decided to build a "stealth" plane, meaning : you've found in the archvies of russki radio technologies a piece from the 60s detailing how flat surfaces will scatter radio signal AWAY from the source, and thus in encounters with a single radar, you can design a 10 ton, 100 cubic meter object that looks like a square centimeter piece of duppel, on
mp_en_viaje: even with the computer it was subsonic, unmaneuverable sadness. complete glass cannon, by 1999 even the yugos could down them.
mp_en_viaje: the whole thing happens with no fucking guidance, eg if you were trying to "build a woman you'd like" you'd spend SOME time fiddling with the knobs, but you'd broadly know it has to have tits and they're to be big etc. when it comes to "aircraft" you have nfi, maybe it should look like a tv.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925756 << in fairness though, the design of an object with particular refractive properties is necessarily more software than hardware -- it's the ultimate "measure 10mn times cut once" item, for each shape that ends up being built, 10e10 or 10e20 or w/e alternative shapes are investigated, ray-traced...
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925749 <<->> http://trilema.com/2013/the-corn-thing/
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 00:24 asciilifeform: imho actually a mistake to think of e.g. f35 as 'product' that 'has a price', as if it were toyota -- what instead is that the parasitic toad at any given time demands x %% of the printolade, and produces/pretends to produce certain # of golden toilets, and x / # is then 'price'
mp_en_viaje: plausible to the plausibility standards of one with paludism-induced dementia, it's true, but still.
mp_en_viaje: that;s the problem with the plausibly-deniable socialism, the third brother : it's plausibly deniable.
mp_en_viaje: they call it musket
asciilifeform: oddly enuff, the 'difficulty gets tested and found laugh' somehow didn't make ~any measurable diff in korea/vietnam (where sov iron flew circles around nato's -- yet somehow the chairmen an' boards of 'lockheed', 'grumman', etc. ~weren't~ shot, nor any detectable similar thing happened )
asciilifeform: afaik is questionable whether item had 'difficulty' in this sense to begin with
BingoBoingo: Well, the higher difficulty goes the more constrained members of the buying group become in how they use the thing. Because Israel is driving up difficulty blowing up random warehouses, whoever might want to use the thing to take out radar sites before "humanely intervening" has to lose more jets.
asciilifeform: tho possibly i get the implication in BingoBoingo's piece, where what utility the thing has, will be spent, 'pushing up difficulty'. but afaik this is entirely incidental to the process that produced the thing, and its predecessors/successors, process that has ~0 to do with utility, prospective or otherwise
asciilifeform: i confess i dun follow the analogy
BingoBoingo: Well, its a product in the way Bitcoin mining FGPA/ASICs were 2011-2013
a111: Logged on 2015-02-21 04:28 asciilifeform: in j. sladek's 'tik tok', sf novel in '83, in the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built
asciilifeform: only offers the illusion of being a finite number because of practical limits (denominator aint actually +infinity ; and numerator in practice is rarely 0 , occasionally 'wife' is bored and/or does some 'work' by sheer accident )
asciilifeform: where the latter 'is to be paid 100% of yer money and in return will do as much or as little as feels like'
asciilifeform: often enuff (e.g ronnie raygun's 'star wars') there ain't even a physical toilet.
asciilifeform: imho actually a mistake to think of e.g. f35 as 'product' that 'has a price', as if it were toyota -- what instead is that the parasitic toad at any given time demands x %% of the printolade, and produces/pretends to produce certain # of golden toilets, and x / # is then 'price'
BingoBoingo: And the F-35 hole is ~1/3rd of the USG's fall from "Could have bought Russia in 1991" to today
BingoBoingo: Seriously, amplified by Irael's F-35 purchases being funded directly from their US payola.
mp_en_viaje: pretty lulzy considering what the shit cost
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I can't help by think of the USG/NATO/ETC F-35 dilemma as anything other than the ASIC era drama again
mp_en_viaje: a well then
BingoBoingo: I do believe the 9 lucky peons get sandwiches
mp_en_viaje: do they get a sammich or what
a111: Logged on 2015-05-21 09:12 gabriel_laddel: CL. Additionally, I want people who have no prior knowledge of computing to develop taste. Gedankenexperiment: spend 10k USD, purchase stock PCs, preload with something somewhat sane (Actually complete Masamune/bitcoin-assets distro) and distribute to a class of kids "learning to program". IMHO they'll play around with it, do their work and then p
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in tombs of other 'i will clean linux!' folx.
asciilifeform: found the item fwiw.
asciilifeform: hm i distinctly remembered the 'tard handshake' being about the catv incident ! but apparently entirely diff piece
mp_en_viaje: maybe it's a matter of history, they have the handshakes sorted by year, and they decide who to feel superior to that way, "oh, bro, that tshirt is so 2015"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In the cultural space the sounds of the croaks certainly changed. "Compassionate Immigration" to "No Borders" and "Gay Weddings are fine" to "Worship Trannies NOW"
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 16:02 mp_en_viaje: more likely a simple http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/ failure ; they looked for "https everywhere" or "code of conduct" or whatever and didn't find it ; and reaching to label the situation somehiw
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925677 << The part that amazes me is just how much the retards' handshaking appears unchanged. No strong indications this is distinctly 2019 derping rather than 2014 derping
asciilifeform: that kernels is an exact equiv. of http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-arent-two-antipsychotics-better-than-one-the-most-important-article-on-psychiatry-part-3-adnotated/#identifier_2_86297 . and prolly born via exactly analogous process.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-who-are-academics-writing-for-for-whom-are-academics-writing-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Who Are Academics Writing For? (For Whom Are Academics Writing?) Adnotated.
mp_en_viaje: they gave up.
asciilifeform: the sheer magnitude of the bloat, is impressive even vs. microshit's (iirc 'win2k' kernel src weighed ~300M)
asciilifeform: not, incidentally, meaningfully documented anywhere (tho no shortage of 'these here are docs, cuz we said!' crapola) -- tho i do not expect this surprises anyone.
asciilifeform: to port the kernel to 'M', asciilifeform ended up having to read pretty good chunk of the arch/mips subtree, and it was comparatively small -- still bucket of sweat.
asciilifeform: may even be that the only practical approach is to discard ~100%~... ( who can meaningfully read 125M of obfuscated-c liquishit ? )
mp_en_viaje: somehow THEY don't think THAT comes with a cover.
asciilifeform: ( ~not~ including any particular gcc , or ~gcc's deps~, or 'binutils' req'd by the latter. just kernel. )
asciilifeform: there was at one time a place that molded in-ear headphone to client's ear. assumed somehow that this exists for tits, and perhaps comes with the silicothing, lol
mp_en_viaje: then there's the tit fat, and then thetre's the skin. how could the implant come with a bra ?
mp_en_viaje: but it goes... under the pectoral muscle
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the buttplugs are more sex shop fare in my classificatiion
mp_en_viaje: got the sluts hats, masks, stockings, hanbot got GG bras -- which is the first time managed to find a fitting bra for her and so on
mp_en_viaje: in other news, kiev has excellent slut support stores, not merely good party scene support.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 16:03 feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-schools-breeding-narcissism-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Are Schools Breeding Narcissism? Adnotated.
asciilifeform: they do a http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3440#selection-127.2-257.37 and jz .Not_Found, eh.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-schools-breeding-narcissism-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Are Schools Breeding Narcissism? Adnotated.
asciilifeform: seems likely. difficult to picture 1 of these actually taking time to read the fucking link
mp_en_viaje: since "he's not fucked in the head like us lowly peons" isn't available to the peon psyche, "bloviating about bitcoin" will hafta do
mp_en_viaje: more likely a simple http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/ failure ; they looked for "https everywhere" or "code of conduct" or whatever and didn't find it ; and reaching to label the situation somehiw
asciilifeform: possibly the source of confusion for the drosophila was the fact of ffa series being tagged, among other strings, 'bitcoin' , lol
asciilifeform: not even jackal, these folx have life cycle approaching that of drosophila naodays
asciilifeform: 'in april was the jackal born, in june the rain-fed rivers swelled; 'never in all my life,' said he, 'have i so great a flood beheld''
mp_en_viaje: you know, at the rate imperial tards spawn, i expect we're just on the cusp of becoming "old man on the mountain" saint-hermits, revered antiqua etc.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in heathen pits. ( was, apparently, the source of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-29#1925477 bandwidth sink. left'em a comment even. )
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 14:58 diana_coman imagines MP throwing lappy into the soup pot in the fridge
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 14:57 asciilifeform: ( the correct way to refrigerate devices is in sealed container w/ silica gel or at least dry rice )
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 12:15 jurov: ave1 and anyone learning common lisp: I recommend CLTL2, it is more accessible to sequential reading and it's the same information as CLHS, it was made at the same time.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925632 << defo get cltl2. trying to learn from the ansi doc will pop yer head.
asciilifeform: ( the correct way to refrigerate devices is in sealed container w/ silica gel or at least dry rice )
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 09:09 mp_en_viaje: i thought for a day it's "bad internet", but no, everything else works, just this lappy drops. and... i put it in the fridge for 10 minutes, now "the internet" is fine again.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 07:54 mp_en_viaje: in other sads, something called "Blackboard_Safeassign" has been apparently crawling trilema for a while. it turns out "SafeAssign is a tool used to prevent plagiarism and to create opportunities to help students identify how to properly attribute sources rather than paraphrase. SafeAssign is effective as both a deterrent and an educational tool."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925619 << i've been seeing these for years nao. they're all contemptible scams, incidentally: profit model is that shit student ~pays~ to test for 'accidental' plagiarism , so that homework won't set off detector when his prof tests
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 09:08 mp_en_viaje: aaand... this elitebook has developped a new problem : if it gets overheated, the wifi drops.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925626 << this is endemic. affects crapple boxen, and possibly all the recent (5y or so) chipsets
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 14:22 ave1: jurov: Thanks!, I'll try it, but are all these lisp (sbcl, ecl etc) version 2 or 1?
asciilifeform: hrm, prolly oughta disambiguate the sentence -- 'some proggies' 'in nuffin-but-the-paper-standard cl'
asciilifeform: jurov: i've actually written battlefield proggies in nuffin but the paper-standard cl. but admittedly this is rare.
jurov: There is no common (with small c) lisp, but multiple dialects.
jurov: sbcl, ecl, ccl are all Common Lisp (notice the big C) implementations
jurov: ave1: CLTL2 means "Common Lisp the Language, 2nd edition", it's not about Lisp-1 vs. Lisp-2 distinction.
ave1: Personally, I wish it was possible to understand all the principles, but I guess its simply a reality that I must deal with. I guess, if you think about it, the path to further progression does not come from re-learning what has already been known a long time, but from using and building on that basis, applying principles in a working fashion, and achieving new things.
ave1: Modern times; https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/the_end_of_an_era_1/
ave1: I did read SICP, so I'm not unfamiliar with the basic concepts
ave1: jurov: Thanks!, I'll try it, but are all these lisp (sbcl, ecl etc) version 2 or 1?
jurov: ave1 and anyone learning common lisp: I recommend CLTL2, it is more accessible to sequential reading and it's the same information as CLHS, it was made at the same time.
ave1: btw, I do like lisp and going through the spec.