asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is that 'normal people' drivers rely on there being a working pci bus, interrupt controller, etc. stack in the os, rather than programmed-bare-io
mircea_popescu: was there since long ago.
davout: did we just add tmsr-db on the todo?
mircea_popescu: but yes, trinque has it, the discussion really is about what a db would call "the disk data format".
mircea_popescu: ask the fucking fin.
asciilifeform: and i'm pretty sure it came up when the finn was here. he vanished.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but did you ask the fin.
trinque: davout: idea is that these querying tools could as well use reiserfs or another as the "disk data format"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most folks run for the hills when i say 'yes in asm, and no you don't get to use any existing code'
davout: i'm still not convinced that the relational approach is not the correct one, as far as an arbitrary inspectable DB is required
mircea_popescu: didja ask the finn ?
mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
mircea_popescu: the expectation ot make an os and not have to write drivers is the sweet sort of innocence usually reserved for coed sluts.
asciilifeform: the one caveat that i can think of is that it may very well turn out to be unusably slow (as in, >10min block verify), on anything but reiser. (if there even.)
mircea_popescu: trinque not only that, but anything other than all is kinda indefensible in practice.
mircea_popescu: and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs.
trinque: this is an entirely reasonable approach and yields the same things; I would call it a db.
asciilifeform: davout: pluggable ~without bitcoin having to know about it~ is the key.
mircea_popescu: this much is true. it's also not really the part in dispute.
asciilifeform: how to arrange bytes on hdd, is why we even tolerate the misery of having an os, to begin with.
asciilifeform: it does not belong in there.
asciilifeform: having the db hardlinked in bitcoin is lunacy
mircea_popescu: but "what to index" is like "user decides when to breathe"
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that it's not really open to his decision. see something like "user decides what checksum" is eminently user-able.
asciilifeform: by choosing a different fs to plant the thing on
davout: a valuable advantage of relational storage is that *the user decides* what to index
mircea_popescu: and that's just scratching the tipsurface.
asciilifeform: the algo where you 'wallet' by keeping privkey AND index-of-last-block-where-this-addr-was-input-or-output are kept around, works until , in 'typical human' fashion, [l]user asks for 'fried ice', and wants MOAR, e.g., 'oooh i found a privkey in my underpants drawer, how much is it worth' or 'i want to keep priv on 2+ boxes' or, or.
mircea_popescu: and the differential is in fact so immense and not even linear, that restrained toolset is huge gain.
mircea_popescu: this is the very important point here - every feature in the toolchain makes programming easier but ~everything else~ (generally here referred to "fit in head" but easily expanded to writing correct tests, maintaining, even KNOWING WHAT BLEW UP when something blows up!) much much harder
mircea_popescu: the wallet ~is~ that, yes. problem is humanity doesn't mesh well with computability. ppl want a wallet./
trinque: -or- the wallet is already a catastrophically shitty implementation of this
mircea_popescu: the reason we want ~one~ is that we don't want to find we can't maintain two.
mircea_popescu: davout completely amiss. if you try to rubify this, you will end up with the kubinetes situation. "nobody knows how this works".
asciilifeform: btw, p=?=np esoterica aside, 'never say never' in re algorithmic complexities. it is possible to make a number-theoretic 'blockchain' where you check for unspentness by euclid's gcd, for instance. many things are theoretically possible. but this thread afaik is about traditional bitcoin.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586183 <<< are you saying that relational storage is nice, but has the high indexing cost? or am i completely amiss?
mircea_popescu: somewhere there, 12 to 25tb worth of indices for a 1tb worth of blockchain.
mircea_popescu: in the case of most modern bright minds, b is "hidden" under the rug and so they don';t think correctly about their environment
trinque: asciilifeform: I cannot go calculate the current balance of a given address without walking the chain
asciilifeform: davout: not dedicated. and arguably if you're using an os 1000 yrs from now that doesn't have exact equivalents of these tools, you have serious problems
mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
trinque: the relational model is not impossible to implement
asciilifeform: (does anyone understand why i put, e.g., 'v', together, the way i did? or the lamportron?)
asciilifeform: the mega-win from 'use files on disk, in directories' is that i can explore the index with sed, grep, etc.
mircea_popescu: davout the objection, to be clear, is that too much maintenance. that's the true cost here.
davout: if it's "the one design to rule them all" were there any objections to simply using a normalized relational design?
trinque: because I don't always know what the fuck I want!
davout: trinque: i was thinking more along the lines of "different use case classes might warrant a couple different pluggable storage designs"
trinque: one implements a fast in memory key value store, the other transactions but no structural constraints, ...
trinque: davout: ad hoc crapping together database features as needed gets you the last round of idiot fad databases
mircea_popescu: davout it'd help if there were a good design, how's that.
davout: trinque: are you saying there should be a single design?
mircea_popescu: and i have nfi how anyone fucks these 100lb, tits smaller than mine twists. anyway.
asciilifeform: but the 'boy' comment suggests that it is finite.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have nfi what the dimensional tolerance is , in practice.
davout: asciilifeform: i'm interested in the title
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hm i hadn't considered this. you mean the tiny girls are for tiny guys ?
mircea_popescu: kinda why the bitcoinfs discussion has been steaming on a low fire for like a year now.
trinque: speaking of killing yourself, the db design for trb deserves *long* thought
asciilifeform: it is the sad peculiarity of life of the programmer that a proggy 'works perfectly' -- until not
asciilifeform: davout: 'decent' in the sense of having no ~obvious~ catastrophic bomb
trinque ran the golang one for a long time
davout: these were 'decent' ?
asciilifeform: and another in some proprietary D-like language used at google
asciilifeform: iirc there was even a ~decent one (as far as anyone could tell) in python, in 2012
trinque: davout: troll not the poar alf
asciilifeform: davout: chances are there is a crackpot pseudoimplementation of bitcoin in every language, cobol, malbolge, befunge, by this point. they are of 0 interest because not trb !
asciilifeform: flush motherfucking mempool.
asciilifeform: if i want to flush the mempool, ditto.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 17:05 trinque: as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:38 mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586084 <<< "show user checksums on demand so he can burn the system down if it doesn't match" sounds sufficient to me
mircea_popescu: don't sweat it alf, eventually there will be a fork.
mircea_popescu: even that aside - there's no "propagation" excuse in this usecase.
asciilifeform: the 'headers' thing is abominable.
asciilifeform: (except fuck the idiot blockheaders thing! hash entire fucking blocks)
mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
mircea_popescu: this is still the correct thing.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice.
asciilifeform: well yes, in the literal martian scenario, 'what do i do if a shell hits my trench?' 'jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around'
ben_vulpes: aight so i can drop checkpoints.cpp then?
mircea_popescu: this whole "humans are inferior ; aliens come ; but humans still manage to somehow" is rank nonsense, not how things play out, nor how things should play out, nor how anyone wants them to play out.
asciilifeform: as i understand, mircea_popescu objects , that this is an imaginary solution to the quadratic, that there is no physically plausible scenario that follows this path.
mircea_popescu: that's broadly the idea - "mommy, what should i do if johnny wants to plug my virgin ass ?" "don't let him ?" "what if i can't ?" "you can" "what if magical alien from afar comes and he has magical powers and i really can't ?" "oh, no, HIM you spread for."
asciilifeform: somebody ( ben_vulpes ? ) ~did~ advance the argument that if martian lands and has enough hash, and wants to use it to orphan block # 2, he ought to be able to and we ought to live with the result, iirc.
mircea_popescu: if you do this - you may not anymore deny the other implications of magical unicorn. such as you know, someone eating jam and shitting whole plums.
mircea_popescu: but it contains a counterfactual of the nature of magical unicorn.
mircea_popescu: in the memorylessness.
asciilifeform: where is the 'magical' ?
mircea_popescu: listen, randomly transmuting the magical unicorn into magical octopi etc isn't going to work.
asciilifeform: it is in re the earlier gedankenexperiment. say trb operators stuck to the 'grandfather's pistol' principle entirely, and kept no record, other than current copy of blockchain, of the past. no checksums, etc.
davout: ben_vulpes: then no :)
mircea_popescu: so then what are you talking about.
mircea_popescu: nor can you extract guarantees. there's no guarantee stamped on gravitaqtion iether.
asciilifeform: show me the guaranteed noncornered node.
ben_vulpes: davout: this is the 'sybil' thread, yes?
mircea_popescu: the cornering is magical.
mircea_popescu: one who comes with magical unicorn alternative can not thereby pretend to invalidate the rest of the magical unicorn implications.
asciilifeform: davout: see the mitm point further down in the thread. a ~simulated~ yottahash is just as good for the purpose.
asciilifeform: davout: besides the point
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:38 asciilifeform: yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585962 <<< in this case there's quite a few other ways in which the can fuck you
asciilifeform: g terror groups, but could punish people who fight on the other side, according to analysts. ... “How can I pose a threat to Denmark and other countries by being a soldier in an official army that Denmark trains and supports directly in the fight against the Islamic State?” she wrote on Facebook after officials took her passport. The potential 6-month prison sentence stems from the travel ban violation. Palani admitted to traveli
asciilifeform: in other monkeystans, 'Joanna Palani, a 23-year-old Danish woman, was facing a 6-month prison sentence after fighting alongside Kurdish peshmerga forces in Iraq and Syria, The Local reported. Palani had her passport confiscated last year after she returned to Denmark, and was hit with a one-year travel ban, for violating the nation's so-called "foreign fighter" rules. The regulations were aimed at stopping Danish citizens from joinin
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares who some guy fucks ffs.
asciilifeform: s for a lieutenant colonel and a two-star general with 30 years in the Army. And it slams the door on what was once a promising career. Army Secretary Eric Fanning approved the board's recommendation and made the final decision. The spokesman was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly so spoke anonymously.'
asciilifeform: meanwhile, 'An Army major general has been stripped of his stars and forced out of the military after a 30-year military career because of a long extramarital affair and "swinger" lifestyle. An Army spokesman says Maj. Gen. David Haight was demoted by three steps to the rank of lieutenant colonel, a steep and rare downgrade for a senior officer. The demotion will cost him more than $40,000 in annual retirement pay, based on pay scale
mircea_popescu: deindustrialization dun enter into this ; de-"personalization" as personhood is currently misrepresented in the west however - does.
mircea_popescu: be that all it may, the ~correct~ reaction is strictly http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-133.333-133.381
mircea_popescu: we're discussing what software runs on black box. you propose "hey, it's trying to cut gangrene in such a way as to do maximal damage to enemies". yes, this may be, as a generous interpretation. the more common interpretation however is to say there's exactly no cutting.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the less generous one is as set out in "apple could buy russia"
mircea_popescu: anyway, you're right in that the "free world" is significantly impeded in sane / reasonable reaction by the unwarranted, wholly baseless conceit that "all people matter", so they can't go on tv and tell every woman she has a week to find a master after which will be packed on catle ship and auctioned off in iran.
asciilifeform: let's have the less generous one? for education
mircea_popescu: this is the most generous interpretation.
asciilifeform: such that the bricks fall on designated untermenschen when possible.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the death of the 'fat consumer' system is not optional, it's an exponential/runaway growth hallucinatory nonsense. the lizard deindustrialization program is in re the ~controlled demolition~ of same.
mircea_popescu: and as per http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ the absolutely imbecile generation STILL wants to pretend the conversation is about how racist it is to not allow faggots to "marry" ; rather than about how idiotic it is to pretend russia is an enemy and africa's an ally ; or that deindustrialization is a reasonable response to anything.
mircea_popescu: the ~entire thing is just how much the chinese want to and can convince the russians that significant and sufficiently humilatory concessions will be forced out of the us side so they forego actually taking scalps.
mircea_popescu: the sad truth of the matter is that the us has spent the past few decades giving most initiative away. the fate of the world is not significantly decided in washington at the present time.
asciilifeform: his obummeristic majesty sits on throne for another month.
mircea_popescu recalls roman emperor who did this exact thing, had an uncharacteristically smooth rule thereafter.
mircea_popescu: but the truth is, this is perfect time for trump to rid himself of the best and brightest of the "progressive" nigger set.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that members of various the various states' college of electors < since we're on it
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/fP5Ce >> 'Trump’s insistence on channeling Putin’s propaganda may reflect a more permanent and creepier mindset that refuses to see Russia as a foe of the West. If the latter, how far will this go — blocking sanctions? Acceding to Russian aggression? The suspicion that Trump is Putin’s lapdog has cast a shadow over his secretary of state nominee, who is distinguished only by his chumminess with Putin.' << t
mircea_popescu: the turks released dataz.
mircea_popescu: the russkis are prolly going to double-tap anyway owing to fears of "who knows, maybe the dysfunctional shielf works".
asciilifeform: eh mircea_popescu probably earned the place a spot in target grid
mircea_popescu: iers, except maybe one in china sea. at which point obama may or may not launch the nukes.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be fair here : the russians have no interest in waiting ; putin might be uncharacteristically meek, but in general a half dozen us ambassadors starting with the resident in manilla within the next week-10days is perfectly possible. at which point obama actually having the gall to call natl emergency and set aside the transfer of power is not entirely inconceivable. after which the russians WILL sink all the us carr
mircea_popescu: if you're even vaguely familiar with the victim it's pretty evident.
mircea_popescu: the stakes are pretty high, us itself is trying to pivot to an ir middle east. doesn't look like they have enough non-retards in the whole foreign service to pull it off, but hey.
mats: stir the shit-pot real good, mebbe disrupt .ru-.tr-.ir talks
mats: i wonder what excitement is left in the days remaining to current potus
asciilifeform: yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
mircea_popescu: how you store the blockchain is your decision
mircea_popescu: anywya, getting back to mats ' thing, i find it truly amazingthat the ustards actually have the unmitigated audacity to try and rhodesia turkey.
asciilifeform: or rather, in rom
asciilifeform: and of what use it'd be then
asciilifeform: if 'any' block is theoretically subject to revision.
asciilifeform: at what point can one produce the rom ?
asciilifeform: incidentally, recall the blockchain-in-maskrom ?
mircea_popescu: except of course there isn't a lot of usfilm agit-footage about how checksum deterred bad white guy.
mircea_popescu: anyway ; checkpoint does exactly nothing to solve the problem. it is more in the same vein of feel good cure, like "mace" spray.
mircea_popescu: there's no requirement to show ~you~ have a safe heaven in order for something to be law
asciilifeform: (or rather, whether there can be such a thing as a mechanical test for 'am i in an alley')
asciilifeform: afaik it remains to be seen if the 'dark alley' can ever be ruled out.
mircea_popescu: just like woman who permits this deserves all the cum she gets.
asciilifeform: and they WILL eat.
mircea_popescu: race is to the swiftest ~and~ idiots must die.
asciilifeform: a mitmer has, theoretically, ~infinite~ time to munge any particular block of his choice
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/democrats-attempt-to-threatenbribe-electors-in-bid-to-stop-the-great-again/ << Qntra - Democrats Attempt To Threaten/Bribe Electors In Bid To Stop The Great Again
asciilifeform: the real question is whether any type of checkpointing is really a permanent pill against this.
asciilifeform: so it is not obvious that 'race -- to the swiftest' is correct answer, anyone who can stuff a node into a solipsist cave, can replay time and orphan early blocks, if there is nothing like 'checkpoint'.
asciilifeform: btw the checkpoints were certainly not there against martians with infinitely fast miner, but against more elementary syncing-node-mitm.
asciilifeform: just as how the genesis is hardcoded.
asciilifeform: well presently trb nodes ~aren't~ operating strictly on 'race to the swiftest', they have the ancient checkpoint thing.
mircea_popescu: yes, once said martians appear you can make the forced mistake of a or the force mistake of b.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:22 ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585903 << you can also use ctags that comes with emacs. you do "ctags -e -R ." in the root of codebase, and then M-. will take you to the definition. (M-. first time will ask you for the tags file, which will be in the root of codebase)
mircea_popescu: if your "choice" manifests itself only after they ask the question, it is improper to call it a choice.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'choice' in the sense of that you're stuck choosing how to operate a node.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:19 asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585887 << it is very wrong, on the level of braindage wrong, to imagine that there can be such a thing as an ex post facto choice.
mircea_popescu: this absolutely requires smarter guy on the usg side shot. and there will be some shooting. thing is there's not that many competent dudes on us side.
ben_vulpes: not only is there state smattered everywhere but it's inscrutably altered by who even knows what when
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not that ; the guy was the architect of the dept of state's most recent and most embarassing failure.
ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
asciilifeform: and no one has any idea whether it even fires
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: sometimes 'grandfather's pistol' problem is complicated when it becomes evident that grandfather never actually shot anyone with his pistol
ben_vulpes: but that the thing won't lan-mine is abhorrent imho
ben_vulpes: perhaps, though, 'grandfathers pistols' problem rears its head here.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:10 asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585867 << fyi i successfully used this method to get the node somewhere into 200k block height on a airgapped libretto by transferring blocks over rsr232/ZMODEM. couldn't get it any further because started getting weird memory issues, i suspect 1.6gb is not enough..
asciilifeform: current trb, by default, nails down the early (300k?) blox
BingoBoingo: Lesson of latest initial sync in progress, things that were milestone last time this year are but one further year of blocks away from completion
ben_vulpes: also this 'win' is baked into how the blockchain works.
asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if martians produce longest chain with greatest difficulty i think by the rules of the game they own bitcoin
ben_vulpes: isn't that sanity check "show me a block with a higher diff and lineage back to the genesis block"?
asciilifeform: mats: lolnoshit, 'seekoority incident', the backstage folx who helped mr.pistolero do his thing, needed to cover their retreat
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have nfi why you and mod6 did not pick it for a release, can only answer for myself. yes, the hardcoded header checksums thing is ridiculous. but no, there is such a thing as a historic, immutable planet earth blockchain, and trb ought to include default-on sanity check of ~some~ kind for long-ago blocks.
a111: Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?
asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em. << See steps 8 and 9
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html << the deterministic sync thing
ben_vulpes: one man's obvious is another man's obscure rathole broken by shitgnomes
ben_vulpes: embarassing as it is that i'm only now finding that trb doesn't solipsistically mine, i did determine that it validates the whole chain.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all of the blocks in my chain validate per trb. (at one time i suspected that they would not -- but they do.)
mircea_popescu: but the discussion wasn't that, it was "rewalk history" bla bla.
ben_vulpes: so there's no 'at block XXX use iAmRetardedBlockValidator'?
asciilifeform: i even had it eat a blockchain that mircea_popescu gave me, from some box he had, iirc, continuously ran since the old days
mircea_popescu: blocks ~prior to that date~ ; not the current blockchain.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 14:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 17:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
asciilifeform: ntry’s banks with currency deposited by Venezuelans racing to get rid of the paper bills while also devastating Colombian-border currency traders he blames for the bolivar’s precipitous plunge in value against “the criminal dollar.”'
asciilifeform: elsewhere, in nearby monkeystans, https://archive.is/5Q1U8 >> 'Venezuela’s president said Sunday that the sudden decision to scrap the country’s most-used currency bill was an economic triumph over the country’s enemies even as the government sent troops and police to cities where riots and looting broke out over the measure. In a national radio and television broadcast, Nicolas Maduro said his abrupt action had flooded the cou
mircea_popescu: if /me worked for the us secret service, /me would be getting permanently lost in $farcountry just about last week.
mircea_popescu: experts also don't have the winner's keen incentive to get rid of the praetorian guard, and permanently.
asciilifeform: 'But the experts could not think of another example of a president-elect continuing with any private security after Election Day, when Secret Service protection expands dramatically for the winner. In fact, most candidates drop any outside security the moment they’re granted Secret Service protection. Trump’s spending on private security, on the other hand, actually increased after he was granted Secret Service protection in Nove
asciilifeform: originally wx (which is the 'pepsicola' to qt, there were and are precisely 2 cross-os gui libs that work at all, wx and qt. wx is the c lib)
asciilifeform: ah the gui crapola
asciilifeform: this was in the 'complete words of satoshi' deadtree i bought some years ago
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you should see the early versions, with bitmaps and shit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, gavin&friends nuked the historical codebase (was on sourceforge, http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19/ was first announced version) because "moving to github", gotta be proper usg tools and all. then github of course includes nothing but their current crap.
ben_vulpes: if anyone wants copies, you know where to write. the recipe, however, is tres simple: wget -mpr www-cgi>
a111: Logged on 2016-12-07 22:27 phf: ben_vulpes: that archive has like dozen of access points, half of them regularly disappearing, a project for a lisp aficionado would be to archive it before it disappears completely
mircea_popescu: yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em.
ben_vulpes: i just demoted the entirety of my todo list in favor of this mining thing, which is actually a subtask on a thing for mod6
mircea_popescu: he's seen it in others and is fascinated by the process ; have you noticed he spent the past few weeks trying to commit people to things ?
mircea_popescu: hey, you're the tungsten expert, go ahead.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nobody did this publicly EVER afaik ; the non-donedness of which is a variable i keep track of in mah own models.
mircea_popescu: not in theory.
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit upstack, when is the last time that anyone verified that all of the circulating coin (i.e. unspent outputs) can trace their descent to valid coinbases ?
mircea_popescu: satoshi up and fucked up the client one day.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what was the root of this fork?
asciilifeform: gavin et al definitely did not want anyone to experiment with replaying the universe, no.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes bear in mind that there was a non-compatible fork cca v2.0
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quite likely it is stuck in the 'initialblock' idiocy, yes
ben_vulpes: still no mining, and my nose points at the initialblock check
ben_vulpes: i acquiesed to the inanity and made 2 nodes happen
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the peer thing also
mircea_popescu: because i'm supposed to have been born as stupid as they are or wtf.
mircea_popescu: somehow this bunch of idiots wants me to believe that a bovine constituency that doesn't give a shit about turned off subway somehow actually goes out and protests the government.
mircea_popescu: and not like there was an angry crowd at the entryways prepared to set them on fire, either.
mircea_popescu: they can do this here. somehow.
mircea_popescu: this isn't after a fire. this is because... well... the subte employees are protesting.
asciilifeform: ( a substantial portion of who is in washington on a business day, leaves at the end of same day in the underground train )
asciilifeform: we had this early in the year here in mordor, after a fire, it was a kind of test-run for collapse, road jams as far as eye could see
mircea_popescu: in other unrelated lulz, buenos aires, one of the largest urban (well, "urban", whatever) agglomerations in the world ... closed down its subway system today. all of it. probem ???
mod6: mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.) << iirc was a trilema post