asciilifeform: (a standard heathen browser loads same crud in a fee sec)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: actually what i also like about archive.is (don't get me wrong, i agree that trusting a service run by some d00d not in wot isn't super future-proof, ahem) is that it *does* save a bitmap rendered image for the site, too
ben_vulpes: ah which reminds me, gotta go lubricate the child
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: child will get distracted by the wonder that is a fistful of pb tho
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 02:55 Framedragger: (tl;dr right now, scriba only submits to archive.is (with no local retention of requested site); the "did archive.is actually accept the submission" check has been improved, and can be used via the `!$ getarchive` command. local retention should take place eventually though, imo.)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598945 << afaik the problem of how to archive remains open. i've though about truly dr.mengele-grade solutions: e.g., spin up os-cum-graphic-wwwbrowser in emulator, capture the rendered payload as bitmap, then destroy the universe, each time. treat www as nintendo rom!
pete_dushenski: Framedragger: comment answered, cheers :) /me didn't have much success with wget and, eg. tlp, but other sites may be more amenable to it
Framedragger: pete_dushenski: i haven't checked, but `wget --page-requisites $URL` may be enough for the latter.
asciilifeform: i at one point wanted to use the mighty 'super-H' (ss in sega) chip, salivated over the manual, but turned out, all the dev tools from vendor are microshitian, and even the ~example sources~ wouldn't unpack without some microturd
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598387 << Just set a jar of peanut butter between then and let them sort it out
Framedragger: (and in regards to duplication of effort, technically yes, i think (though you're advising web.archive.org'd sites to be then submitted to archive.is, right?), but that can't be a bad thing. additional prudent advice could include "how to save local copy with images and stylesheets" note, i guess..)
asciilifeform: phf: the part where jp is pathologically, direly, trapped in winblowzland, is actually true.
Framedragger: (tl;dr right now, scriba only submits to archive.is (with no local retention of requested site); the "did archive.is actually accept the submission" check has been improved, and can be used via the `!$ getarchive` command. local retention should take place eventually though, imo.)
Framedragger: pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/05/a-quick-trick-to-save-medium-articles-before-they-go-bye-bye/#comment-53750
pete_dushenski is more enthralled with japanese culture by the day. intends to construct a house (and garage) stocked with their finest products.
phf: pete_dushenski: just the linked appendix, rest requires even more entomological equipment.. :p
mircea_popescu: anyway, the reason it's a tree is ~because we say so~, not because in and of itself it ~is~. there's no way for a pile of code to be a tree outside of the will of the people writing code.
mircea_popescu: adlai yes, in that formulation it could be linked to the antecedent-in-file thread.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 13:42 mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of nothing in particular, everyone heard of carlos ghosn ? quite the fellow.
mircea_popescu: phf this has happened before. specifically the guy recently named in log, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584020
phf: adlai: i agree, it's a general graph, rather than a tree, has loops etc.
adlai: patches state what state their antecedents must produce, but they don't commit to the antecedent itself
mircea_popescu: no, this'd be different ; that was about adding references ~in the files~ as comments ; this is about the patches (ie, diffs)
phf: the read part of the story is vapid, but the unread part is more interesting, and therefore will be completely missed by the target audience of that article: somewhere in the world, there's a corporation that can change its ~internal communications language~ because the ceo said so
ben_vulpes: ah, the "roots" thread?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski fortunately nobody gives a flying fuck what esl speakers say on any topic. this is very deeply difficult for the selfsame esltards to grok, but it DOES explain why trilema is more widely read than nytimes.
adlai should probably provide an example instead of babbling, but: it's possible to produce distinct antecedents for the same patch
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 06:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem of "how to sort two patches which alter entirely disjuncts subsets of the file set" is not exactly clear. unless they declare how they prefer to be sorted.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597363 << please excuse the nitpick, but given this thread, 'tree' is a misnomer.
mircea_popescu: phf ben_vulpes : it won't corrupt anything if the berkley db is ran in "detached" mode, which it prolly should be. i don't recall if we put this in the trb or not.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski verifyall actually rechecks the chain. takes potentially hours.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 02:07 phf: i still have an issue of global namespace for vpatches. i'm not yet sure that they need namespacing. it's sort of inconsequential for when you do your own press, but in terms of permanent urls you have the first come first served problem..
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598886 << in general it should be tree_author_arbitraryname ; that resolves the namespace issue i expect
a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 23:21 phf: and on the subject of japan and doing things right, gwern wrote about internet culture in japan http://www.gwern.net/The%20Melancholy%20of%20Subculture%20Society#japan-and-the-internet he got everything wrong, but the subject is interesting
pete_dushenski: one can only attribute the electronic reliability of toyotas and hondas to the availability of ~the right kind~ of coders in japan. compare and contrast with those of us or germany, it'd be a hoot.
pete_dushenski: " << doesn't quite jive with mackenzie's experience as to the availability of coders but gotta sow the seeds of propaganda that 'japan is falling behind' when in fact seiko, toyota, yonex, panasonic, and more are all leading their fields globally
pete_dushenski: "Japan's population is ageing. Our economy is slowing. We are not producing enough coders and digital gurus. The only way we can catch up and restore growth and dynamism is by looking outside our borders for talent.
pete_dushenski: in other groks, http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/japans-new-business-language-english
phf: i think if you shutdown kernel will give a grace period to stuck userspace processes and then kill 9 it anyway
ben_vulpes: didn't like the thought of you wasting your time on operating system reboots
ben_vulpes: you can nuke a stuck node in place without having to restart the whole machine.
ben_vulpes: strace showed LOTS OF FUCKING READS which got me thinking in the right direction
ben_vulpes: i left -verifyall in my node's boot script for some reason, took me a minute to figure out why it was taking forever to reboot the other day
phf: i still have an issue of global namespace for vpatches. i'm not yet sure that they need namespacing. it's sort of inconsequential for when you do your own press, but in terms of permanent urls you have the first come first served problem..
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p "what do you think of the recent porsche cayennes?" << if you're thinking of one as a residence, i could see it.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: haha yup, the wild west needs a wittle washing ;) and ty for the qntra ups, might've been the first time BingoBoingo actually used my suggested title!
ben_vulpes: also if you'd be so kind as to add http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2017_cleanup.vpatch to your tree i'd be much obliged. if the hopper is working again just let me know and i'll dump vpatches in there
ben_vulpes: for the * patch
phf: like all the seals?
mircea_popescu: may be the antivirus guy
mod6: when reading "Snow Crash" this year, and after Hanjin went bankrupt, was thinkin, "sure, could buy some of those things... tie 'em together and start an ``ark''". but who would wanna basically live at sea for years on end?
mircea_popescu: mod6 as friend once said, "solitary confinment is just great - i take one just about every time i go to the john."
mod6: for a short trip, fuck yea. otherwise, no.
mircea_popescu: and in other boating girls, http://68.media.tumblr.com/2088dfe8c6c6bbf2200fbfeb3706c352/tumblr_o2u4g9AyWj1qh70jeo10_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: listen, take a break. all this "work" you do on computers is getting in the way of your life.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: you're the one damaging snr tonight
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: incidentally, if I'm wasting my time here with Framedragger and adali, can you also negrate them so they can be put !!down?
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: it wasn't for sale at any point when I had the old key, but I suppose that's just "faffing"
mod6: but yah, wtf with the key, etc?
ben_vulpes: it was low, then you lost your key, now i don't even wat
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: you realize that every day you continue faffing about like this the odds anyone here will pay one red cent for masamune goes down?
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: it was 200, then 300, now 410
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: you realize that there will be a price hike after this is complete correct?
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: iirc with ovh, paypal sometimes doesn't clear till next business day. possibly same with CC. needs to be checked manually. if you raise a ticket with them they'll tell you that, and nothing will get fast-tracked. :/
mod6: It's like 7 deg. F., but I just grilled some awesome cheddarworst on the grill. Damn they were good.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:39 Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: i don't have much free time now, either. maybe end of next week, at this rate. re. CLIM web - any notes / writeup to help? as in, 20min of your time to save some hours of my time while helping you?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 00:48 ben_vulpes: beirc shits itself when i run it naively. complaints re no generic function for cl-irc:nickname or the like
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598796 < if only there were some system you could buy where everything worked out of the box.
adlai is confused, can't the _p-erson up itself?
ben_vulpes: now if gabriel_laddel_p has returned to say "omfg you said you would" the fun continues!
ben_vulpes: anything other than "yeah i'll get right on it" is a "no" in my book
Framedragger: ("supposed" and "putting this together" is really stretching it, but i agree that "hey i didn't commit to anything" is a really shitty attitude, of the same kind as "i hacked up loggotron but it's bad lol")
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 00:39 gabriel_laddel_p: Framedragger was supposed to put this together, but (surprise) has not.
jhvh1: adlai: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: beirc shits itself when i run it naively. complaints re no generic function for cl-irc:nickname or the like
adlai: oh, the right word is 'algebra'. dude taught me algebra.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 23:22 adlai tells that one story about the math teacher that drew a line on the blackboard, then fisted it to uproars from the audience
adlai: gabriel_laddel_pm | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598715 < also, it sounds like you might have been sorely miseducated your entire life. << whaddya want, he was a populist; yet in his defense, he was my first math^H^Harithmetic teacher who... how do i put this, had a mentor relationship with his charges rather than just "these are the numbers, these are their sums"
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:31 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, that's pretty cool. i see what you mean - you can see craters and the dark side still being the moon... collective delusion / cognitive dissonance something something! (and btw i meant the album but both work well in this instance..) :)
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598410 << at the risk of furthering the thread on harmonic interferometry, you don't "get" dsotm until you "hear" (not with teh ears, but in the heart, or wherever the pineal gland lives these days) the 251
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: please don't give me makework, it's more than enough to have received a rootset of (what's the word that means what 'people' actually mean when they say 'hopefully'?) useful material.
Framedragger: i was not supposed to do anything gabriel_laddel_p. stop with the passive aggressive tone already, it's annoying
gabriel_laddel_p: Framedragger was supposed to put this together, but (surprise) has not.
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: anyways, I have suggested using a +v irc channel + CL-FTP + beirc as a "CLIM-web" so we can ditch the browser tomorrow
gabriel_laddel_p: for the record, does anyone know of an intelligent person who uses air fresheners/fabreez?
gabriel_laddel_p can barely resist the urge to stick "google toxic encephalopathy" under each air freshener I find.
gabriel_laddel_p: that they worked?
gabriel_laddel_p: What _exactly_ was so wrong with blackboards that they had to be done away with?
gabriel_laddel_p: Godamnnit. I fucking _hate_ whiteboards and these stupid fucking "air fresheners" they stick all over the place.
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: anyways, to that point, there is no deadline for any of this, but your updates should be ~weekly and you should be working on it 6hrs+ a day if you want your life to amount to anything.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598709< jesus fuck. I somehow misread this as anything other than "deadline".
adlai: how's it go... "hidden are the devil's machinations" (rough transation of "nistarot hen darkei ha'el")
asciilifeform: (easier in the sense that the perpetrator does not risk having his withholdchain invalidated by a 'wild' tx being included twice (dun ask me why this would be a concern, but we DO know that they program with arse muscles) or conceivably mined by another
asciilifeform: adlai: there is an even simpler plausible hypothesis - that it is simply easier to build the massive blockwithhold-chains the cartel builds, if one does ~not~ include wild tx-en in'em
adlai: | size gradually enough that users don't realize they can pay lower fees again"
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 06:27 ben_vulpes: eh, the leaving of free money on the ground baffles me.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597346 << 09:13:20 adlai | one could argue a lot of things, such as "miners should voluntarily reduce the block size, to drive up fees, and then increase the block
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: first part of your request is basic google search : https://www.google.fr/search?espv=2&biw=2131&bih=998&tbm=bks&q=the+art+of+computer+programming++balanced+ternery&oq=the+art+of+computer+programming++balanced+ternery&gs_l=serp.3..30i10k1.2454.6331.0.6536.14.13.1.0.0.0.327.1357.10j2j0j1.13.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..1.6.461.HHB-vlpZ1EQ
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: and a copy of the book
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: I don't want all of them (well, I do, but nevermind that) - I want the specific book & page number where knuth discusses balanced ternery.
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: then come back after a month or so and we'll see if we can have an actual conversation.
ben_vulpes: chop chop lol the stones on this guy
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: start here: http://trilema.com/2014/a-compendium-of-basic-points-about-bitcoin-for-the-benefit-of-various-confused-noobs/
phf: actually it would be nice if somebody were to warez the cross referenced version of taocp that was produced by tug. stuff that's on bittorent is junk
gabriel_laddel_p: also, if you could locate the precise knuth book where he discusses balanced ternery, and then find me a warez copy, that would be useful
adlai has lots of logs to catch up before amending the rating.
asciilifeform: that orbitz was only 1 foot in lisp planet, and had the most cpu-intensive piece in cpp.
deedbot: adlai rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << likely impostor until verified otherwise, still needs a bouncer; otoh, talks plenty smart.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: according to dan weinreb (who died a couplea years ago; was one of the key smbx folx, and then -- much later -- also the orbitz air tickets thing) wrote (on his www, that is now vanished, though archive.org might have snapshot),
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: fwiw, i intend to finish the hardcopy of hacker's delight that landed in my life before properly digesting the links you sent me, but out of politeness, i will skim them first.
adlai: mircea_popescu: iiuc qpx is the ~one~ proggy google did not rewrite in blub after it landed in their laps
mircea_popescu: i generally use either girl-who-works-at-agency or else expedia.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the air tickets thing -- worx, i've used it many times, fwiw.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. doesn't seem to be going anywhere, iirc they also bought matrix, and never integrated
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they bought it (acquihire) for ~$1B
adlai tells that one story about the math teacher that drew a line on the blackboard, then fisted it to uproars from the audience
adlai: (also you seem to vastly overestimate my competence, which is fine - a common mistake. others here seem to have a better idea of it)
gabriel_laddel_p: https://web.williams.edu/Mathematics/sjmiller/public_html/105Sp10/addcomments/Hayes_ThirdBase.htm
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: some further food for thought
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: well it seems I can't have you do what I had in mind. Could you instead please review http://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/ternary/ and work out some basic ternery circuts for the eventual loper machine?
adlai: also, don't laptop literally, that literally kills the sperm
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: what runs on the machine that is actually sitting on your lap
adlai: and some sorta bsd but i don't own the iron
adlai: the haemorraging-edge one, dome linoks
adlai: no, and my trb node never finished syncing either
a111: Logged on 2015-05-23 06:52 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes in particular it's unclear to me how wise the "licenses" angle is for a serenissima derivative. while i declined to anull IP when diametric asked earlier, i am very very far from any sort of belief that the current model of that stack of stupidity has any sort of hope for survival. << i figured (perhaps stupi
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:48 mircea_popescu: anyway, entertaining the thing as you describe at face value : if indeed your concern is a sort of bastardization as conceptually constructible from the foregoing, then the correct move is to build your masamune on musl and attach a license that forbids the empire (such as for instance the trb license ; or else one stating to use must be in l2, or rated by you, or any such thing). this will mostly protect you both technically
gabriel_laddel_p: http://rigetti.com/ < USG.MAGA also uses CL, though I'm not clear on the particulars atm
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:46 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598536 << the btcbase logs run on lisp for instance. in fact #tmsr is afaik the largest lisp codebase in actual use (ignoring for a moment whatever portions of AWOG alf may wish to bring up).
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:24 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598383 << reminds me of how i first chanced upon lisp. i was eighteen, more pretentious than now, and had eaten my first hashcake half an hour ago. i was reading esr, jumped to topic of lisp and homoiconicity, and was like... d0000d. this is how you penetrate the universe. knowwhatimsayin.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598397 < if you think haskell is of the same family of lisp you understood nothing.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-19 01:50 decimation: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-23/german-gold-stays-in-new-york-in-rebuff-to-euro-doubters.html << " “The Americans are taking good care of our gold,” Norbert Barthle, the budget spokesman for Merkel’s Christian Democratic bloc in parliament, said in an interview. “Objectively, there’s absolutely no reason for mistrust.” " lol
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: do you want an ircbot to play with "now" and migration to trinque's new shiny be damned or do you want to wait for the new shiny?
asciilifeform: or is there a storehouse with actual germans still in it, in cryostorage, next to the nazi ufo and atomic bell ?
asciilifeform: which one 'won't stand for it', the bearded d00dz enjoying themselves on rapesafari, or the chix ?
mircea_popescu: which only adds to the amusement -- got data about what they plan to do in case data leaks which has been now leaked.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/the-fourth-reich-grips-berlin/ << Qntra - The Fourth Reich Grips Berlin
mircea_popescu: no sauce for it, either, because well... sikrit infoz.
gabriel_laddel_p: when creating my image, why must I copy using cp -dpR /somedir/* /someotherdir/ rather than the -a flag?
mircea_popescu: it might be a good idea to write all these down ; there's a decent chance people here may read, and a not negligible chance at least one knows why it fails.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: something like that. There are a whole slew of issues: the init that Martin ships works fine, but if I substitute my own init - breaks. Among a million other things I have don't understand, such as
mircea_popescu: and in other "bad posture nudity", http://68.media.tumblr.com/aa8ea46ba42d57de36de74c7e0746ddf/tumblr_o2u4g9AyWj1qh70jeo9_1280.jpg
gabriel_laddel_p: I cannot create an image that comes with all the required goodies without breaking something or other.
gabriel_laddel_p: and it works fine. The problem is in this "image" business.
gabriel_laddel_p: syslinux is the bootloader
mircea_popescu: in my own mind, it's just unsquash the image, impose a portage on it / make other customisations and resquash it. at least that's how it ~should~ work what the everloving fuck.
gabriel_laddel_p: If you know the dozen lines of bash that will do this, do tell.
gabriel_laddel_p: One of the features I need to complete is replication, which is to say: "A single procedure call being all that is necessary to bundle the entirety of the (possibly heavily modified) sources into a redistributable bootable USB stick installer or network download. "
gabriel_laddel_p: Oh right. Masamune is a gentoo (no systemd) curated for (sbcl) lisp development only. It offers graphics, CAS & other mathematical libs all in the same lisp process.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: "stick business"? You are referring to the analogy from ascii earlier?
gabriel_laddel_p: pete_dushenski: what do you think of the recent porsche cayennes?
gabriel_laddel_p: ^ the whole lordship should be able to decrypt it on the off chance you're curious.
phf: (in unrelated tooling, mc is handy. i can see why asciilifeform still uses it. you can go pretty far with the whole ofm paradigm, combine it with unix underneath, etc.)
netmonk: i used to program in RPL on my hp48 back in the day, does that count ? :)
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: you may continue to comment on my blog, others may continue to bitch, there is no pleasing everyone
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:31 asciilifeform: possibly others.
mircea_popescu: might be ~same as the above musl, i suppose on a curated gentoo.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:26 gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: once I figure out how to do this USB replication things, I aim to see every that every lord / notable republican has a Masamune + the ability to replicate it.
mircea_popescu: now, it may be that you don't know how to do this, but that's easier to solve than any other problem.
mircea_popescu: then alf can run the thing ; and altman can't run the thing, both because he doesn't know how to and because he doesn't see any point in trying.
mircea_popescu: and legally, and i estimate the barriers would hold.
mircea_popescu: anyway, entertaining the thing as you describe at face value : if indeed your concern is a sort of bastardization as conceptually constructible from the foregoing, then the correct move is to build your masamune on musl and attach a license that forbids the empire (such as for instance the trb license ; or else one stating to use must be in l2, or rated by you, or any such thing). this will mostly protect you both technically
gabriel_laddel_p: I contend that the current "lisp community" is a bunch of fundamentally broken people, and that symbolics was a bunch of fundamentally broken people, but they're broken in different ways.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598536 << the btcbase logs run on lisp for instance. in fact #tmsr is afaik the largest lisp codebase in actual use (ignoring for a moment whatever portions of AWOG alf may wish to bring up).
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: idk about that. Symbolics was a different beast with a different set of problems. But then again, I don't know that much about the people involved with Symbolics, so perhaps you are right.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:10 gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598292 < this is _the_ problem in the lisp world. Each and every lisper painfully recreates a sorta-similar environment over the course of years.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598513 << the cause for this ridiculous situation, however, is very much described by the above discussion re symbolics. those were also people who aimed to install all lisp machines, by hand, in their own garage.
mircea_popescu: i am surprised you two don't know each other.
mircea_popescu: these aren't mutually exclusive.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque repairs on phuctor are complete and the rss feed again consists strictly of genuinely-phuctored mods. the werker will be re-enabled tonight. it is safe to switch the feed back on.
asciilifeform: possibly others.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-03#1421109 << the gentoo recipe thread.
asciilifeform: there is a very long history of this kind of nonsense that is ~very~ difficult to overlook.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: understand that 'this product is not for the public, it is for YOUR VEEERY SPESHUL EYES' patternmatches scamolade.
gabriel_laddel_p: Anyways, will encrypt a copy to the lordship and drop it in here today.
gabriel_laddel_p: idiots have an easier time with the latter.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: consider posting, publicly, the ad film. if this enables 'idiot' to immediately replicate your work, then there was not so much to it, neh ?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: entirely leaving aside the particulars of your product, i must confess that i get an impression that gabriel_laddel_p is not himself entirely certain yet how it is that he wants to do business, and with whom, on what terms.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:06 mircea_popescu: subquestion : does teh esteemed lordship find itself inclined to tolerate the exercise ?
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: once I figure out how to do this USB replication things, I aim to see every that every lord / notable republican has a Masamune + the ability to replicate it.
asciilifeform: well you did use phrase 'republican pockets' rather than ' gabriel_laddel_p's pockets '
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: you want someone among the people here to work as your sales rep ? or wat
asciilifeform: if you ~actually need~ their money, your business model is already catastrophically ill-conceived.
asciilifeform: why do you care what the idiots who would consider bastardized product may or may not do ?
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: an ubuntu+sbcl+clim "masamune" gets released and promoted by the whole "lisp community" that lacks sources, macsyma, MJRCALC, MGL, etc
gabriel_laddel_p: That being said, I should drop a version in here for the lordship
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: I'm doing my best to keep it from the hands of idiots.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: while we have you on the line, plz consider taking a few min to explain the rationale for 'product is ready for selling' but at the same time 'video is not ready for public eye'
gabriel_laddel_p: ^ Roughly my feelings on the matter, however CLIM is sufficiently enjoyable to distract from this.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: did you ever get it to the point where it installs on hdd ?
gabriel_laddel_p: No? Because now Masamune exists and we can begin to address the other issues (such as x86) like adults?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: for so long as the x86 idiocy persists, this will remain.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:49 mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not entirely up to speed re sad state of lisp world. i expect it's in the shitter, but not exactly clear how. is there any merit to the nude assertion that "lisp is a shittier thing than trb, because trb at least has SOMETHING that can be made into a musl ; whereas lisp does not" ?
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598292 < this is _the_ problem in the lisp world. Each and every lisper painfully recreates a sorta-similar environment over the course of years.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:03 phf: mircea_popescu: it gives me a way to bring my knowledge and skill on par with people who invented computing, both on cs and ee sides. i keep one eye on a possiblity that i will be able to restart their work. in entirely hypothetical scenario of somebody coming to me and going "we want to build a personal computer that follows stan's 7 laws etc." i simply want to be able to do it from first principles. at worst there's going to be some
ben_vulpes: well having failed to extract the battery from the dead car i must now do the aforementioned food run but also to get a 10mm deep socket
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598267 < Thanks for reminding me. I don't trb, so went looking for them last time I was working on the LiveUSB, failed to find them and then continued working using the strategy I was prior.
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: you can touch the server if you can fly to paris
Framedragger: admirable approach, but not very pragmatic. then again, pragmatic things can lead to bad places, too...
phf: historical record of some of the systems decisions symbolics made, that somebody else might use.
phf: mircea_popescu: it gives me a way to bring my knowledge and skill on par with people who invented computing, both on cs and ee sides. i keep one eye on a possiblity that i will be able to restart their work. in entirely hypothetical scenario of somebody coming to me and going "we want to build a personal computer that follows stan's 7 laws etc." i simply want to be able to do it from first principles. at worst there's going to be some
gabriel_laddel_p: Talk to you in a few months then.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:43 asciilifeform: but notice, he won't, like vampire avoids the sun
ben_vulpes: i gotta do a food and battery run before these roads ice over, bbl
asciilifeform: phf: i have indirect clues that there ~were~ docs, and superb ones at that
asciilifeform: at one point there was a probate judge involved also
phf: well, result of my work will be basically one step removed from useless :} no need for a logic analyzer, but still a gargantuan effort to make sense of architecture. smbx has opposite problem from scheme stack. there's the DPL, but there aren't any AIM-514 equivalents
asciilifeform: them 3, plus the 'customer' (handler) at fort somethingorother, makes all of modern-day symbolics corp.
asciilifeform: he's got the emulator src.
asciilifeform: there is also a 3rd d00d, kalman reti, who i have not met nor know anyone who has
asciilifeform: 0 theory.
asciilifeform: the other d00d, who asciilifeform and phf both met, is schmidt, and he's a salt-of-the-earth mechanic sort of fella
asciilifeform: (a good chunk of the logistics code in u.s. dod that actually ~works~ runs on smbx. TO THIS DAY.)
mircea_popescu: don't tell me "to sit on them for later"
asciilifeform: having the physical 3620, was, interestingly enough, ~useless.
asciilifeform: all i got, for the most part, is what is in the wall-o-deadtree manuals, and what i gleaned from reversing 'snap4' binary in ida.
asciilifeform: some details of the low level arch might be interesting though.
phf: problem is that our man never really had the code (certainly no "rights" to code), since i think that the asset split went something like "you get the body and you get the soul", and the guy with the soul is keeping it in his garage to "turn into millions one day one i retire" sort of thing.
phf: i'm treating it as an avocation, so i'm resigned to glacier speeds that all these people require
phf: i have a second trip scheduled for second week of march to finish the process
phf: right, i think i was going to source it for completeness, but never bothered because of abstract.
asciilifeform: i have that paper. it was ~2pgs and about as useful as their sales brochure.
phf: (he i think published another paper on the subject of making lisp cpus, but with smbx as his @)
asciilifeform: iirc one of the 'death of symbolics' treatises went on at length about the follow of them NOT having made any attempt to market their chip synthesis stack as a commercial offering
phf: well, shrobe went on to work at smbx, and used the evolution of the same stack to make an ivory. i wouldn't be surprised that's where the licensing went
asciilifeform: as the scheme83 chip was never put into commercial production and afaik existed never more than in handful qty.
asciilifeform: also it would astonish me if the build process did NOT depend on having a working cadr around