mod6: When I was out west, most of the deer were "mule-deer" much smaller than their northern conterparts. But there were wild-boar... so I guess I guy could have his pick from jack-rabbits or boar, or mule-deer. *shrug*
mod6: I suppose there are alyways things to hunt. Just not quite as large of game maybe? Although in the south east, they love, for instance, alligator.
mircea_popescu: anyway, yeah, the north is not particularily unfriendly food wise. it's just cold. meanwhile the south utterly sucks for food.
mod6: lol! and may the gods make me swift.
mod6: I would like that kinda thing I think. Maybe in another life.
mod6: Only like 7 families remain. Most of them live off of moose & caribu I would guess. Fish. etc.
mircea_popescu: i don't expect the whole "not for people" libertard thing will last.
mod6: I was watching this recent show about this part of alaska that's now been deemed only for wild-life. It's this huge area in the artic circle. Some people still live there though, as they were granfathered in.
mod6: If shoot a moose or slaugher a pig, or whatever, gotta know how to take it apart and preserve the meat. Basic.
mircea_popescu: mod6 nothing you can't learn in a week. provided of course there's whom to learn from.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman did you see that "amintiri din epoca de aur" antology ? there's a segment there re apartment gassing of pig.
mod6: if that doesn't do it, well then fuck me.
mod6: then after that I blow-torched 'em.
mod6: so to the tune of boiling in tomato sauce... I did this.
mod6: lol, these people think i'm nuts. they're like, "mod6, how much do you want? quarter pound?." i'm like waving it in. "gimme the whole thing."
mircea_popescu: actually i was speaking of the pasta in tomato sauce with minced meat dish, but nevertheless :D
mod6: Oh, speaking of cured meats... I hit up the deli again today and picked up a bunch of different salami.
mod6: I'm starting a huge testing phase as we speak. I thought it was worth the effort to /try/ get it working for others.
mod6: Despite all of the recent discussion around multiple roots... I was able to get that working in the forthcoming version.
Reuel: ah yeah there's some security risks ofcourse
Reuel: well I have to copy paste he OTP, run cmd line stuff, etc, just curious how many here automated the process
mircea_popescu: the half hour thing is for noobs only.
mircea_popescu: eh they couch surf anyway
pete_dushenski: it's not that the rooms are even all that similar, just that you gotta subtly prime the coming nationslism every way possible
pete_dushenski: in other lines between the lines, even the lefty design pubs are finding it fashionable to besmirch globalism : https://www.fastcodesign.com/3067578/exposure/the-monotony-of-globalism-32-cities-32-identical-hotel-rooms
pete_dushenski: not that exciting, really. just thought the dude's bio was lulzy
pete_dushenski: simonpenner: same one. sectioon 7 relating to biometric entry-exit tracking was just getting a bit of traction on the second go-around
pete_dushenski: a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty."
pete_dushenski: in less acute instincts, this has to be the lousiest author bio i've seen in a while : "Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community Milepoint.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" byConde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been
pete_dushenski: heh the survival instinct was strong in that one
asciilifeform: in other wtf, old mobo comes back to life just as i readied to hoist replacement into place.
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: i hear you. and no disagreement here. pride will dig you into unnecessary ditches from which you'll then have to climb out. also, yw for auctioneering :)
pete_dushenski: apologies also for the delayed responses. as ^^ points out, i was away and pretty, pretty, pretty unplugged.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/29/a-glimpse-of-great-during-the-first-week-of-great-again/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A glimpse of Great during the first week of Great Again.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: except trump's caddy to be every bit as brash. and are the amerikans still claiming a growing economy ? really ?
asciilifeform: re hughes 'glomar explorer', story is that even AFTER cover was blown, the thing was sent to do the ~job claimed in the cover story~ -- undersea mining. and not 'raise ww2 ships', which even after the robot was built, remained -ev.
asciilifeform: hence the inference that 'it's -ev'
mircea_popescu: this is not exactly true. the raising of nazi submarines is +ev for nation-state ; as shown once ru sub sinks.
asciilifeform: imho it may or may not make sense to make a tool just for trb. just as raising most ww2 sunken submarines is not +ev, only the ones full of nazi gold.
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit upstack, the difference matters here in the respect that a ~cpp~ call-grapher is a ~much~ taller order, because of the OOP soup
asciilifeform: the only cpp in my pogo build was trb.
mircea_popescu: i like the place where you live ; and would love to visit sometime.
asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu uses 'c' and 'cpp' interchangeably, but they are quite different , the way heroin and cocaine differ , though both are simply 'dope' to the uninitiated )
asciilifeform: on this list eulora is the only cpp proggy...
mircea_popescu: there's also linux ; and eulora ; and gcc. and for that matter... emacs.
asciilifeform: trb is the only one i know of first-hand
asciilifeform: it isn't clear to me though that there are so many cpp hairballs that justify the salvage effort
mircea_popescu: on the good news front, we do have lisp-in-linux-on-irc already.
mircea_popescu: actually a long term "c++ toolkit" is probably a very worth republican project. it's accessible by parts, like seen here, even if the parts are really above pay grade of most folk, and is certainly unevitable. we're stuck with a lot of c++ code and this isn't going to go away.
asciilifeform: there's a thing for finding ~some~ buffer overflows. and that's it.
asciilifeform: assorted wankery, and generation of faux 'documentation' -- sure, by the megatonne.
asciilifeform: for instance, can haz 'show me ALL OF THE PLACES MEMORY IS ALLOCATED'
a111: Logged on 2015-08-02 16:03 asciilifeform: the most critical thing re: the graph is probably to make it reflect ~only function calls~ rather than class membership
asciilifeform: and the problem becomes ~tractable~ -- as many do -- when you know which guaranteed non-solutions to discard, e.g., per thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-02#1222081
asciilifeform: there are well-documented algos for approximating solutions to this class of problem.
mircea_popescu: people generally look to answer the very simple "who the fuck is this guy again ?" ; "he found that quirk on so and so linux flavour" is a better response than "i dunno, he just started talking one day".
Reuel: or should i use another os
Reuel: step one is setting up a node then?
mircea_popescu: then you can look through mimisbrunnr and see the sort of load bitcoin db implies, then you'll be in a fine position to model adequate tests for the profiling thing above
mircea_popescu: ah. well, from a simple "cs competency" perspective, doing a trb build first is very good practice. i'll familiarize you with what's here a minimal bar of qualification and anywhere else above the reach of graduate students somehow. and it'll show you the power of the tools and the quality of the engineering.
Reuel: ive ran core and other coins core but no deep knowledge
Reuel: the bitcoin aspect
Reuel: i see it ties into bitcoin in the log but
mircea_popescu: do you understand the bitcoin end of things ? are you running a client ? ever got a v-build of trb to run for instance ?
mircea_popescu: not really, the inquiry is mostly re os
mircea_popescu: well, there's various actually useful projects waiting for a hand. such as for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588182
mircea_popescu: well, only in the limited sense that it'll allow people to evaluate you.
Reuel: but, is there a need for a logger?
Reuel: thing was I already started on the voting game back end
mircea_popescu: if they were gonna put half a hour into the female gossip thing you describe, they'd have already found livejournal / instagram / whatever they use these days.
mircea_popescu: seems to me there's already a social media democracy game which costs nothing to enter ; and at least in the fantasmagoric minds of half the pariticpants promises to pay out.
mircea_popescu: Reuel if i were into that, why wouldn't i do exactly what the retard with "coreboot" did, or that unmentionable dimwit with "tor" ?
mircea_popescu: "the vast majority who have aligned theyir psychology to this vector will pursue an impossible fantasy at the expense of their labour and their lives."
Reuel: in the simple case of my game, it would be, at the bottom, the same as action movies for a large part of the population, power fantasies
mircea_popescu: to use a ballas-ism, people who allign their future to that vector how did it go
mircea_popescu: but the problem remains : i can tell you why any engine doesn't work in all cases ; you can't tell me why people like or don't like anything in any case.
mircea_popescu: well they're mythological creatures.
mircea_popescu: much like to the elf and her friends any round refusal of "considering what people like" smacks, residually and vaguely, of "racism" ; just so to the dwarf and his friends any round refusal to refuse to consider "what people like" smacks, residually and vaguelly, of laziness. ie, the only reason the elf's an elf is because she's aforedecided she won't put in any work, and all that's left for her thereby is astrology and "what
mircea_popescu: now, if the dwarf runs into trouble, his retort is work ; and if the elf runs into trouble, her retort is drink.
mircea_popescu: the other guy is an elven astrologer. she wants to put in there a large couch and other things, according to a complicated scheme she has, which at all junctures is justified formallyt and specifically, buyt in general it all backs into "because i think people'd like this".
mircea_popescu: two people are interested in this space. one guy is a dwarf alchemist. he wants to put in there a large cauldron and other things, according to a complicated scheme he has, which at all junctures is justified formally and specifically, but in general it all backs into "because it'd be cool to do".
mircea_popescu: so in a nameless city on a nameless street a spot of commercial space opens up. it has all the amenties and whatever.
Reuel: I think, you believe that the choice in what to vote in is totally free.
Reuel: I would say this would greatly increase complexity, as well as the cost of mistakes in the implementation.
Reuel: Then, if it would have to be implemented with what you would call more sane basics, the in game money would need to come from somewhere. Could be solved by making each vote costing actual irl money. Maybe even make many of the in-game actions cost money. So, either a per action cost that can be paid, or each player pitches in at the start to fill the nation's coffers.
Reuel: mircea_popescu, diana_coman, re: your criticisms, I would say that, at the higher level, there is a choice in target audience, people who live democracy as implemented in the west and agree with it will find no trouble wasting time on a game like this, since it mimics familiar mechanisms (even if broken). In this particular channel, probably not enough ppl would be interested.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/do-you-understand-how-the-world-works/ << Trilema - Do you understand how the world works ?
mircea_popescu: o hey, in other lulz turns out sarah schneider (college humour) published topless for teh fappening.
asciilifeform: in other lelz, https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/department-homeland-security-response-recent-litigation
mircea_popescu: In their late twenties the most intelligent among them say to me, "There's something missing in my life, but I don't know what it is." ; and i grin and if they have nice tits and are tall enough i show them to their cell.
mircea_popescu: "With no experience or knowledge of the worlds of science, art, or literature, and deprived of the sheer necessity to earn their subsistence, my patients are rich in nothing but time on their hands, and so they embark upon the Liaisons Dangereuses of the slums. " from the much better https://www.city-journal.org/html/rush-judgment-12282.html
BingoBoingo: Seriously a broken google cache link in the piece to http://mattforney.com/fat-girls-dont-deserve-loved/ Why no real link?
BingoBoingo: Compost all the supernumerary!
BingoBoingo: Well, then why does he have nipples?
mircea_popescu: "there is no good answer!!11" really ? "yes, because i will not consider the obvious point that this guy's supernumerary"
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : guy who inexplicably considers himself qualified to opine on others fails to understand why is it that spurious dude with no skills or abilities is spurious.
mircea_popescu: and today in epic butthurt : http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/
mircea_popescu: you didn't bother googling me did you
mircea_popescu: simonpenner so what do you do, other than aving started a blog last year where ppl guestpost
asciilifeform: simonpenner: you will, but there is a long queue, i've been waiting for gassing since '13
mircea_popescu: please to not forget the terrorists.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Sure but the GARDEN!!!
simonpenner: so you're on the right track I think
simonpenner: well foxes are like a hybrid dog/cat with the best of both worlds
simonpenner: well thanks for the invite. interesting place here
BingoBoingo: Depends on the work
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron is an aspiring Theocrat
simonpenner: you did a pgp auth right there?
simonpenner: to clarify in case you missed this: I did not write the days of rage post, that is a guestpost
simonpenner: BingoBoingo: I poked my head in here the other day on a fake name via webchat, to figure out what it is. Now I've got a bouncer set up and can IRC again
asciilifeform: simonpenner: register a gpg key, per http://deedbot.org/help.html , then you will be able to voice yourself.
BingoBoingo: Aha, you did get the invite
mircea_popescu: and in further romanian traditional "fuck everyone's words" : "beata lei" is the typical italian "good for you". in romanian, "biata de ea", poor her.
BingoBoingo: There are many things in this world where rust removal and remediation are possible. The steel of American cars is not one of them.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: The cold truth you must confront is that the body panel is without any doubt doomed. Everything from this point forward is merely stalling the inevitable victory of oxidation.
ben_vulpes: goals are twofold: prevent further paint degradation and as much rust as possible now that the skin is broken
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: If your mission is stopping rust what you want is to seal the area against air and moisture. A thin layer of oil based paint does this. A think rubber or plastic glop is more likely to break its seal because soft. If thin paint breaks seal it should be noticable.
Reuel: Not sure whether I missed some more talk earlier, disconnected a few times, but I'll read up in the logs. Going to mull over the no free money thing a bit.
Reuel: ah right was using the OTP for rating me
mircea_popescu: there you go.
asciilifeform: there are always fresh 'whom to shoot' lists. but not at the bottom of dusty 20 yrs. of shed.
asciilifeform: plus the usual lists of stoolies.
asciilifeform: the 1 publicly known 'juicy' tidbit therein was that it contained coordinates for a number of 'buried treasure' arms chests.
asciilifeform: he got a pension out of it from the reich.
asciilifeform: lead archivist of 1st directorate of kgb. also made a shed full of goodies. but in his case, the shed made it through the border, with usg help.
asciilifeform: (and certainly not for, e.g., 'oh we won't send cut-throats to nail or kidnap undesirables there')
asciilifeform: then defense : (approx) 'this applies to everyone in this court room who saw the evidence'
asciilifeform: (prosecution) '...if he ends up in the hands of foreign powers, whether or not it's with his consent, an ankle monitor is not going to prevent him from going down the road and ending up in territory that we can't recover him from.'
asciilifeform: btw it'll be a lulzfest if one of these 'shed hoarders' turns out to have deadman switch.
asciilifeform: risk to the public! didjaknow.
asciilifeform: about dissemination of information to foreign powers. But, at the same time, he is a serious risk to the public.'
asciilifeform: '...the nature and seriousness of the danger to any person in the community that will be posed by the release, it's clear that the Government sort of paints the Defendant as a walking encyclopedia of classified information. I don't know if that's completely correct, but I do know that he had access to all of this information, and I credit him, and I certainly am glad we're not sitting here talking
mircea_popescu: the "holds in pocket keys to own cell" doctrine (that, if you recall, superseded habeas corpus in the us "legal" system) has meanwhile pushed through and it's "plea bargain!"
asciilifeform: btw in case anyone forgot: the d00d was arrested right after the rootkit leak. quite likely brass knew about his shed for years, and finally needed scapegoat, and flushed him.
asciilifeform: how is it that anyone gets 'bail' in usa again..? ain't there ~always~ 'maybe they haven't gotten everything' ?
asciilifeform: gotten all of the information.
asciilifeform: No investigation is perfect, and no seizure of evidence is perfect, and there is always this feeling on the Government's side of maybe they've missed something, or maybe they haven't
asciilifeform: 'So, when Mr. Wyda noted that the Court has already ruled, I'm ruling in accordance with the Bail Reform Act and the fact that the Government has not indicted under more serious offenses. So I am limited by what I can make a determination, and here, I'm limited on the issue of risk of flight. I've listened to both sides carefully, and I think that Mr. Wyda has made some very persuasive arguments.
asciilifeform: some comedic arguments on both sides of the court
mircea_popescu: respected by who the fuck anyway.
asciilifeform: and all of them incidentally part of ye olde rogue's gallery of 'security community'
asciilifeform: 'A long – and growing – list of respected cryptographers, including Matthew D. Green, a professor at Johns Hopkins University, Bruce Schneier, a fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University, and Matt Blaze, a professor ....'
asciilifeform: '“The behavior described in your article is not a backdoor in WhatsApp. This is the overwhelming consensus of the cryptography and security community. It is also the collective opinion of the cryptography professionals whose names appear below. The behavior you highlight is a measured tradeoff that poses a remote threat in return for real benefits that help keep users secure…” the letter
asciilifeform: in yet-other recent hannobocks, http://archive.is/wqu4J >> 'A coalition of some of the globe’s top researchers and cryptographers are pleading with The Guardian to retract a story it published last week in which it suggested the encrypted messaging app WhatsApp contained a backdoor.'
Reuel: thanks for the feedback
Reuel: In the end art is to make people feel, some art makes sophisticated people feel sophisticated things, some art makes simple people feel simple things, and I guess as a starting artist, Im not that picky yet
diana_coman: there will be some people who enjoy X for any X really, not sure what does that do
Reuel: I agree the money coming in is like magic, it mirrors gibmedats a bit actually, lol
Reuel: I see the concern, yeah
Reuel: hmm, the model might be totally of but the reality of human interaction and bargaining is present, and grouping, deals, promises
diana_coman: Reuel, let me see if I get this straight: you want to implement a "small" scale model of democracy in order to test whether it works; at the same time, you propose to implement it on a model of reality that is purposefully broken because..."scope is too small for it to matter"?
mircea_popescu: how's "let's fuck the gameserver" as a promise ?
Reuel: but to get others to vote for laws that increase your groups salariy, you will probably have to either give something else up or promise to
mircea_popescu: "oh you won't be allowed to do that ?" "why not ?" "Ad hoc!" "congrats, you exported the job of designing your game to an os which was not designed to do this"
Reuel: well salries are set at the start, there is a national budget which is divided over all players, but certain laws can change the balance
mircea_popescu: tomorrow i vote to give myself more salary than your platform can support. i mean this literally, 1024! shall be my salary. what then ?
mircea_popescu: yes but you need some sort of bounds for this to ripple back. otherwise it's just a free expanding system
mircea_popescu: that usually works when there's a solid underlying reality.
Reuel: the salaries. locations, jobs, are more of a setting
Reuel: I would say the meat of the game is in the intrigue around selecting laws that benefit groups or individuals
diana_coman: Reuel, unbalanced means broken; do you mean you want to implement something broken on purpose to then see then that it...breaks?
diana_coman: fwiw it sounds to me that Reuel precisely wants to implement the planning committee possibly as a fantasy where he thinks he can *make* it work
mircea_popescu: when they do come from the central planning committee the country's broken, and collapsing.
mircea_popescu: salaries come from a social negotiation, not from the fucking white house.
mircea_popescu: not exactly. the point is that ~everything's balanced~.
Reuel: that nothing in the game is free
mircea_popescu: what does size have to do with whether something works or doesn't ? a broken engine is broken at any scale.
Reuel: well youll probably tell me i dont get the idea
Reuel: I did, and I get the idea, but this is way smaller in scope
mircea_popescu: just because a bunch of irrelevant games are utterly broken means jack. a) eulora isn't broken and will kill them ; and b) nobody wants to play them anyway
mircea_popescu: consider all the rest of your magic numbers. where does the one in "they can veto the outcome of one national ballot per round." come from ?
mircea_popescu: you don't grasp the problem with this.
mircea_popescu: A job influences what salary a player receives << where's the salary come from ?
Reuel: I hope you can grasp the game cycle from this
Reuel: yeah the introduction can be ignored, this was a work in progress which should become the manual
mircea_popescu: to put it bluntly it's either that "people vote" or that "their nation". denied middle between these.
mircea_popescu: Reuel your description is badly phrased. for instance in the first paragraph : i encounter the symbol "the best outcome for their nation", but it's not defined nor obviously supported by the introduction. leaving aside that going from "x is defined" to "x is measurable in an algebraic group which permits ordering" which is what "best" implies -- your perspective is globalist and there's no fundamental solution for a national
Reuel: you suggested the Eulora text mode conversion, could you tell more about it
Reuel: is the game idea
mircea_popescu: and in other non-rape things, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e93b99e7d7bfd4fbe2a1d9b77d545f44/tumblr_okct3g6WVD1vfg3jto1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: and in other cat news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/de8a7547919242e2328cd231505cdf09/tumblr_oadgv5lqeY1s02vreo1_500.gif
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/sN4iG and another https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16195583_1545329468840698_6964324230302921332_n.jpg?oh=8940116e09d581e2d424d1270ffb44d2&oe=5919C78A
BingoBoingo: "I had seen the moonwalk [not the pedophilic stage dance, but the actual walk on the Moon that orbits Planet Earth] recently and therefore believed in what was essentially magic."
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:49 ben_vulpes: phf: and on this, the third consecutive day of asking, would you kindly acknowledge receipt?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608382 << this is the official acknowledgement of the receipt. likewise i saw it the first two times you posted it, but didn't realize that writing the nth copy of the logreader that you embarked on is a high priority republic business. seriously, what's with the attitude?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-05 21:19 deedbot: diana_coman rated phf 2 << Only known fault so far is making public the day he leaves for vacations.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:52 ben_vulpes: unless i misremember, the man is in the habit of at least mentioning prolonged absences.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: and if universe expands and you gotta grow it -- you grow it at the tendrils (leaves)
mircea_popescu: the above was also finite : 2.1 quintillion.
asciilifeform: because the alternative is lunacy.
asciilifeform: the number is unknowable and i will not pretend to know it or estimate it.
mircea_popescu: conversely, the proposition that "the sum total of people that could possibly be worth knowing is equal my dunbar number" smacks a little of panglossism
asciilifeform: the latter -- is a bad dream.
asciilifeform: and the former is 100% about incentives.
asciilifeform: instead of leaving it as something for people to discover when it is too late and they are already packed like sardines.
asciilifeform: shows where the ceiling is.
asciilifeform: imho one of the appeals of bitcoin is that it in fact makes this limit explicit.
mircea_popescu: hopefully there's such a limit naturally.
mircea_popescu: hypothesis IS NOT A FACT.
mircea_popescu: well, oft repeated alfisms aren't thereby facts.
asciilifeform: quite likely. but i dare say, they will for the most part be sane in a non-btc-directed way.
asciilifeform: then from whence 'growth' ?
mircea_popescu: not sure these picturings are useful.
asciilifeform: can mircea_popescu picture a planet3 with 3mn gold vaults (not pirate chest, either, but the kind with xray rig, defensive turrets, tank division) ?
asciilifeform: there are not 3mn gold vaults.
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow we conquer the us and put it through the grinder, that'll result in 297mn bodies, yes
mircea_popescu: why ? the whole point of life is to make less idiots.
asciilifeform: as for 'growth', i have extreme difficulty picturing the number of users of bitcoin who have by any conceivable stretch of the imagination ~actual business using it~ going up, rather than down
mircea_popescu: look, the problem is that as the empire grows, the army food supply goes from bushels to millions of bushels. "restrict legionnaire rations" is not a solution.
asciilifeform: presently fraggers do not pay the cost of fragging, it is strictly 'ecological', and externalized to future users.
asciilifeform: (as in the node-miner conflict, described by mircea_popescu , for instance)
asciilifeform: frag-entropy, like other systemic problems with traditional bitcoin, is simply a result of misaligned incentives.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 21:56 mircea_popescu: davout the thing that SHOULD be done about it is make it work in such a way it doesn't choke in its own fumes. not that i know how to do that.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 23:58 mircea_popescu: drives teh wyminz nuts also, they work out till they drop, i never do, then i can you know, lift one in one arm and for some incomprehensible reason i got biceps the thickenss of their thighs. "BRO!!!" "hey, i got testosterone, it's great."