mircea_popescu: how the fuck they managed to think mit is anything but ~the only thing they must destroy~ is beyond me however. seriously, how the fuck does that work.
mircea_popescu: ated their own aesthetic notions of "competition" among themselves, instead of setting boston on fire.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 22:04 mircea_popescu: NOW -- the question is why did this fucktarded dozen decide the best thing to do is make 3-6-howevermany "Competing" entitite.s
mircea_popescu: but anyway, thinking about it, it'd seem to me the only possible explanation of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1641002 is that the golden dozen lacked ~any conception whatsoever~ of the enmity of mit. like dodo birds, went happily to the necessary eventual slaugther because failed ot perceive usg must be destroyed not ignored. in a field arbitrarily (and perhaps not exactly accidentally) limited in this manner, they cultiv
mircea_popescu: they were interested in resolving the problems of the group, mostly in the shape of not getting wiped by the parthians.
BingoBoingo: "Arborist" above 8 feet would usually either come with bucket lift truck or climbing gear and small (10-14 inch bar) saw.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform socialism is the proposal that the problems of individuals will be addressed by the group. the spartans made no allowance for the problems of individuals.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Another solution may be to inquire at power equipment rental outfit and find setup from one of the orange brands (echo, stihl) to use for a day or two until branches restored to sanity.
asciilifeform: (they -- also -- 'cowardice' ? )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: distinguish, for my education, 'socialism', from how the spartans lived.
BingoBoingo: If there is problem it could be you need to adjust chain tension again after saw warms up
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The usual solution among people who get paid to do that work is smaller chainsaw plus climbing
mircea_popescu: which'd be ~why~ specific republican artefacts (above approximated as firehose) result in the "educational split" so to speak.
mircea_popescu: now, obviously other than the people who ~are made of~ shit, you can also have people covered in shit. these, however, can wash. even if they're not necessarily distinguishable on superficial examination -- put the firehose on them and you'll presently find out.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to take the thing back to rms and friends : socialism is not a political choice, it's a psychological defense. it expresses itself in fundamentally defective individuals. tis what it is.
mircea_popescu: (ie, little jane stuck too early with too much male attention she doesn't know how to handle (in no small part because her mom's a retarded jen and had not the sense ot have sisters etc) will grow defensive. but it's to my eyes rather a different strand. quite evidently so : she's immodest in private.)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: y'know those 20 ft chainsaws for trees ? i was using one, it sucked, chain slipped maybe 5 times in 1 hr. are there such thing as decent one of these ?
mircea_popescu: because if i make them strip, jane's DD look better than jen's A-
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i currently find the notion persuasive. jane and jennifer are both interchangeable as 3 yos, but as they progress to age 23 it becomes apparent jeniffer jsut never had the tits in her.
mircea_popescu: all kids appear healthy, but the brains of a precious few are deffective, and as aging exposes them to the challenge of correct diversification, it turns out they ~were all along~ schizophrenic.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "celebrating "Palm Sunday", a feast marking their holy tradesman's triumphant return to Jerusalem days before the holy tradesman was martyred by combined Italian and Jewish police violence." << epic. << Updated, forgot to insert relevant link to earlier qntra <mircea_popescu> "celebrating "Palm Sunday", a feast marking their holy tradesman's triumphant return to Jerusalem days before the holy tradesman was martyred by co
mircea_popescu: i also do not think one can become a socialist. they're all born this way. it's braindamage, basically.
mircea_popescu: i don't think there is any such thing.
asciilifeform: he was just another d00d in those times.
asciilifeform: and pre- him receiving the socialist prizes etc. pre-gnu.
mircea_popescu: hence all his imbecillities with "log scale for music payments by downloads" and whatnot other respectable sovietisms.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i expect rms did no such thing ; but that he correctly believed that if structured as ~radical~ socialism, socialism may be made to appear palatable to intelligent people ; at any rate more so than the commodified variant.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms naively believed (but afaik -- genuinely believed) that one can separate the cutlets from the flies.
mircea_popescu: the notion that there can be an apolitical something is like the notion that there can be a transparent non menstruating woman etc.
phf: hmm, i always thought his question was a lot more naively childish "why'd did all my friends i had fun with left to do these weird `grownup` things"
mircea_popescu: mno. his question was "why do these 12 people not see the glory of socialism and dedicate their lives to making every receptionist live in luxury she can't pay for"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (strangely, even though ti was a megacorp already at the time, their offering was the least memorable) << No mystery. They were likely operating from an internal assumption of leadership and thus snore.
phf: actually that's the same (i assume rhetorical) question rms was asking
mircea_popescu: NOW -- the question is why did this fucktarded dozen decide the best thing to do is make 3-6-howevermany "Competing" entitite.s
phf: asciilifeform: clim fwiw predates micro exodus. was, like common lisp, an attempt by the three vendors to make a unified gui foundation. you can still see scarring in genera where they started transitioning to clim apps from their flavors
asciilifeform: most of the heavy lifting was done by a dozen or so people, however. (david moon, richard greenblatt, tom knight, buncha smaller ones )
mircea_popescu: you seen the premises ? not physically possible to host 100 people working there, let alone 500 wtf.
asciilifeform: at the ai lab.
mircea_popescu: dozen people eighteen months. thatssit. where's the 500 undergrads ~actually~ working for decades ?
mircea_popescu: slaves, idem. if you couint every nigger at mit, derping about "we're one, man" and "i should have money anyway" then yes you get the figures, but if you count THAT as slavery god help youi.
asciilifeform: 0 receptionists. it was this club where they let the brightest undergrads burn their lives for 0 pay to build interesting hw.
mircea_popescu: and the problem of "slaves" and "work" is very interestingly repeating. so : if you count all the receptionists in the "work" you're getting an obviously diluted figure. if this is were how work worked, i could build spaceship by hiring 1mn chickens/hair stylists in argentina. evidently, argentina isn't building any spaceships.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu already postulated a conclusion in his head, and doesn't actually give half a fuck about facts, i will not bother with this thread.
asciilifeform: again it wasn't 'mit', it was 'mit's ai lab', wholly - at the time - unique assemblage.
asciilifeform: most of the hours were worked unpaid, by slaves.
asciilifeform: i read the released cadr schematics. and the source. it was genuinely 1000+ man-year of genuine work.
mircea_popescu: ie, a dozen people "worked" in the us sense for 18 months.
mircea_popescu: mit never had a thousand man-years of work, in its entire history to date, counting all the departments.
asciilifeform: in fact the piss ui from this thread, clim, franz lisp, whole shebang of barbarian yurts decorated with smashed roman mosaic, were results of later attempt to 'repeat in garage' regardless
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the question of "why the fuck would anyone even bother with a mit '''license''' we'll leave for some other time".
asciilifeform: (strangely, even though ti was a megacorp already at the time, their offering was the least memorable)
mircea_popescu: seems a lot of retarded one-man-ism that gave the world 5k "airplane inventors" and just as many canvas-made planes that didn't work worth a shit.
asciilifeform: iirc there were 3 mit licensees
mircea_popescu: there were what, 5 different wanna-be symbolix corps ? commercial lisps ? etc.
asciilifeform: most of the subj of thread is post-rms.
asciilifeform: the other idiocies follow from 'we can make roman aqueduct in empty field, and with 0 book-larnin', and it will be Just As Good'.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 21:17 mircea_popescu: why exactly did everyone in the golden lisp era feel such a burning need to compete with each other anyway ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1640945 << gnu's confinement ( from poverty ) to 'commodity' (i.e. unix) hardware was a forced 'exile from eden' and the derp response is to postulate 'we're JUST AS GOOD, US TOO!1111' etc.
mircea_popescu: "celebrating "Palm Sunday", a feast marking their holy tradesman's triumphant return to Jerusalem days before the holy tradesman was martyred by combined Italian and Jewish police violence." << epic.
shinohai: I assume, since they contacted FCC, the system operates on some sort of radio frequency. Officials are "tight-lipped" lol
mircea_popescu: what exactly is the "oh, must be local" rationale besides "we are retarded and so therefore things follow"
mircea_popescu: "The attacker was able to turn the sirens back on 15 times in a 90 minute period" lmao
mircea_popescu: i mean rms, i understand, stray dog mit took in, he'd bark at st peter if st peter came by. but the rest of 'em ?
mircea_popescu: why exactly did everyone in the golden lisp era feel such a burning need to compete with each other anyway ?
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
phf: mcclim's grey athena widget is from-cave attempt at "industry standard" echo of an echo
phf: mcclim always reminds me of how rms was planning on competing with symbolics by reimplementing everything they had on top of gnu platform. that was the goal. only a handful people who actually worked with a genera realize how "special" the result of rms's work was.
asciilifeform: 'go fucking wash the whitegrey off yerself omfg'
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 16:04 phf: i met fare at one of international lisp conference's and i thought he was kind of off, but the kind of work he did on asdf3 precisely corresponds to his personal and writing styles. sort of like a dirty kid that you have to constantly remind to like fucking go wash yourself dude, omg
asciilifeform: the mcclim ui always makes me think of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633985 people
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 21:20 phf: well, that's the thing, the original backend from clim2 goes all the way back to genera, and it's literally all solid 1-pixel lines, and bulk of the display is text.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 02:53 asciilifeform: it ain't new, it is copy of 'athena' ( the thing found on old suns, that made their ui eye-clawing fugly and painful to navigate )
mircea_popescu: trinque incidentally the best solution probably is to do a sweep tx now and again (once a year or such ?) to aggregate all the inputs into one single output
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/04/tears-of-the-great-again-leftists-find-exploit-trumps-weakness/ << Qntra - Tears Of The Great Again: Leftists Find, Exploit Trump's Weakness
mircea_popescu: this might even fix it, but it's not certain, given the festival of adhoc magic numbers trb is also known as.
trinque: I reduced the deed amount to make room for moar fee
trinque: ah yes totally relevant then
trinque: should have the thing working again later today, and will back up current wallet for inspection
BingoBoingo: Yeah, founded by Bill W's wife to cope with "He stopped drinking, why am I still not the center of his universe"
BingoBoingo: AHA, "Al-Anon" is people not usually alcoholic themselves trying to live with drunks
Framedragger: (as the corpus of text expands, it becomes something like a fractal derrida and is heavier to manage in mind, at least in my mind)
mircea_popescu: but in the future will just link log.
mircea_popescu: no, i'm aware what the problems are. just, absent a written form, im stuck going through the matter question&answer style.
mircea_popescu: but didn't discuss it, and therefore i've not what to link.
asciilifeform: it is what intel's rdrand, via'd chips, etc use. tightly married to the vagaries of the fab process, and very difficult to tie to a specific physical effect
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 15:06 BenBE: With the WhirlyGig it's temperature-based modulation of ring oscillators.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 14:42 BenBE: Depending on the circles you worked in, you knew GnuPG is broken on several levels.
a111: Logged on 2015-10-09 01:20 asciilifeform: the chore that everybody here has been putting off into indefinite future - that of ~actually distributing one's entire modulus~ - is a necessary thing.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 14:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced the ONLY "fingerprint" for rsa key may be... the modulus. 4096 bits and fuck you, if you can't take 32 chars you don't belong here.
mircea_popescu: yeah. put that evaluation in the stack though, i wanna hear what comes of it.
BenBE: In the way you rate this part solved. I'm not quite convinced here yet. Will need to evaluate the information.
mircea_popescu: BenBE well, while the state of hardware generally is very poor, due to tmsr dilligence this particular corner is actually solved, and so no, wrt rngs the state is fine.
mircea_popescu: FG is, importantly, an ~auditable~ rng. you can audit the thing, and if you do, i'd be very interested to hear the results.
mircea_popescu: can you name the fpga i can both buy and audit ?
BenBE: Any other FPGA should basically do: Original design was a CPLD. So you'd grab one FPGA you /can/ audit the toolchain for and compile the design for that FPGA. It's not too much code.
mircea_popescu: last i heard he had enough of licking acids under the microscope.
mircea_popescu: well, we don't trust xilinx for critical infreastructure for the ~same reason we don'tr trust windows.
mircea_popescu: are you familiar with the thompson problem ?
mircea_popescu: BenBE who makes the fpga / toolchain ?
BenBE: Multiple rings (3 or 5, would have to lookup in the VHDL file) are XOR'd together when sampling. Thus not one oscillator, but the XOR of different onces.
BenBE: No, only did some tests with dieharder on its output (at 2Mbps) which score several less WEAK in the results.
mircea_popescu: obvious example : does monotonous temperature variation result in more 1's ? something along the lines of "batch 1 we kept at 20, batch 2 we took from 0 to 40 over one hour, batch 3 we took from 40 to 0 over one hour. out of the 10gb worth of entropy recorded in that hour, batch 1 is 50-50 split, batch 2 is 75% 0s, batch 3 is 74% 1s.
BenBE: In the FPGA versions they are built of unclocked rings of logic gates (transistors). With the FPGA I use they oscillate at about 150-200MHz (if I read the information of the synth tool correct)
mircea_popescu: can't say i have any experience with said modulation. what are the ring oscillators built out of ?
BenBE: With the WhirlyGig it's temperature-based modulation of ring oscillators.
BenBE: What's the entropy source used in those Cardano RNG?
BenBE: I am vary of things he does, will also tell others to do the same, but absent of proof I can't reasonably call him malicious.
BenBE: mircea_popescu: I think there's a difference between suspecting someone of malice and proving it. Cf. Occam's razor.
BenBE: Didn't know that particular project, but have a true RNG based on the WhirlyGig design at warmcat
mircea_popescu: BenBE yes, but here's the extra step : not only do i know koch is an evil shithead who dedicates his time doing evil. i also say it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced the ONLY "fingerprint" for rsa key may be... the modulus. 4096 bits and fuck you, if you can't take 32 chars you don't belong here.
mircea_popescu: BenBE do you also know the FUCKGOATS, so as not to ever again use a "prng" for as long as you live ?
BenBE: I asked W.Koch about the PRNG about 2 years prior to the break last year. And even then it had been know for years before that, that the PRNG is phishy but nobody cared to actually step forward and rip it open.
BenBE: Depending on the circles you worked in, you knew GnuPG is broken on several levels.
BenBE: OT: I know the guy who recently broke the GnuPG PRNG. He has been working on a project with me for some time
mircea_popescu: but to be perfectly clear : rfc 4880 is not technically weak. it is politically subverside, and deliberately so. it consists of the same material that has schneider running around trying to convince people turning their computer in for an ipad is "the way to bright future of socialism", or of the uk cocksuckers that covered up rotherham droning on as to how they have to have everyone's keys to "catch criminals".
mircea_popescu: it is deliberately constructed to weaken rsa ; take the recent http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22sha%22+gpg "sha fails, koch-gpg fingerprints are meaningless", which had been foretold here for... years.
BenBE: At least those were the aspects I mostly disliked about it. What were yours?
BenBE: It is when you can't handle the vast amount of data it involves (and yes, I know that vast is an understatement here). Alone building a database to manage all the raw data for my KeyInfoDB/Kompromat project is ~500GB (compressed) keys. Automating stuff for grabbing these at their source for import is a chalenge of its own.
mircea_popescu: for a moment there it read as "i don't like $newguy, he might do something stupid." which is silly, let him do the stupid first, not like him after. wtf preemptive dislike.
asciilifeform: and that folks who want to 'embrace and extend' phuctor are on their own.
asciilifeform: get the published data, verify it, write yet own, learn something!
asciilifeform: and no i am not interested in giving it away as an ornamental flower on some low-effort pile of ?. there is a reason the source is private.
mircea_popescu: you can have the moduli, atm. once a proper standard for rsa key wrapping is decided upon, can also have that. state of the art atm is http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=e%2CN%2Ccomment
mircea_popescu: BenBE trouble is we're moving away from the inept koch standard.
BenBE: Suggstiong: you have all the keys available that make up those dumps. What about using a batch job (once per day) creating a large .pgp file people can download. That's both static and gives people all the information (create UIDs for the extra stuff if necessary)
asciilifeform: also, to answer earlier q: there are already very effective pills against ssl: timing attack, nonce reuse for dsa (you can find existing code)
mircea_popescu: BenBE the problem is that others may attempt to use it and involve you thereby. which is also the whole of their business plan, i'm sure you realise. anyway, the whole thing's moot : proper wot exists, we're using it, the soup can go hang.
BenBE: asciilifeform: 1) No, can use it without (just need to do stuff on the command line then) 2) not a feature you need to use. There's a CLI clint you can audit and use.
mircea_popescu: hopefully we don't end up with too many people importing this and then wanting to strangle us when the obviously adhoc tree ends up rebased.
Framedragger: and presumably sadmods as well in the future (again, not yet cached)
asciilifeform: BenBE: 1) they want your privkey 2) they purport to accept 'private' msgs to you, on their www
mircea_popescu: well dot rather than comma, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger so then, to get back. next time someone wants what BenBE wanted above the answer should be http://siphnos.mkj.lt/phuctored,html ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: the only external-dump link there is sadmods (not yet cached - again, unsure of impact on phuctor performance)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ok, sorry for that then
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: if you check, the hrefs on that index page link to phuctored.html on siphnos etc
Framedragger: asciilifeform: oh, so only the deedbot announcer here on irc excludes some new keys?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger we're not discussing the stats but the meat of the matter. same stuff as is in the link i gave him above (http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/phuctor_snapshot.html) 3mb or w./e it is
asciilifeform: otherwise end gets cut
mircea_popescu: that's no good then
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i mean that not *all* new entries are included, rsa truncates, them, too. asciilifeform can confirm tho.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger dja mean rss ? that's the fucking point, to truncate, so you don't keep getting ancient data
mircea_popescu: anyway, so then the cannonical "i want to import list of phuctor-broken keys" should be http://siphnos.mkj.lt/phuctored/ ?
Framedragger: rsa truncates, etc etc, other methods (pg notify / etc as mentioned by trinque) require asciilifeform's intervention
mircea_popescu: need a better method than downloading the whole list of shit you already know every time.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger do you currently cache the whole phuctored dir ?
mircea_popescu: BenBE as your luck has it we just did a phuctor snapshot, the complete list is at http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/phuctor_snapshot.html
Framedragger: oh, nice to have all of them at one place, convenient
BenBE: Framedragger: That's one of the resources I will be sourcing my Key Information service from. Contains the private keys for e.g. the OpenSSL Debian Weak Keys (complete)
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: yes, i do. see also http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ as companion reading.
mircea_popescu: BenBE now you can self-voice (!!v ) ; do that it'll save us the trouble to up you.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 13:48 BenBE: I'm the maintainer of the GeSHi syntax highlighter for PHP, which is used in e.g. Wikipedia for source highlighting of articles. Also working on several crypto-related projects like my own TLS/SSL test, a collection of publicly-known set of compromised keys, an OpenSource management software for handling X.509 certificate issuance for a certificate authority.
mircea_popescu: shinohai dun knock it, might've been the best answer to date. except perhaps that reuters chick.
mircea_popescu: pick one you're never going to ever lose, stick it in http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/ then say !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/blabla
BenBE: I'm the maintainer of the GeSHi syntax highlighter for PHP, which is used in e.g. Wikipedia for source highlighting of articles. Also working on several crypto-related projects like my own TLS/SSL test, a collection of publicly-known set of compromised keys, an OpenSource management software for handling X.509 certificate issuance for a certificate authority.
BenBE: Well, IMHO it's not that most crypto is bad. It's the systems it's used in. Plus, most systems are quite fixed on one particular algorithm yielding an easy-to-attack ecosystem.
BenBE: Thus exactly the information you need to attack those keys by looking for nonce reuse isses.
BenBE: mircea_popescu: Mostly the Certificate Transparency logs used by browsers, block chains used in many (if not most) crypto currencies. All public records containing both public keys and signatures made by them.
mircea_popescu: that's kind-of the principal impedance mismatch tmsr gotta deal with : the natural membership is highly technically skilled, which in general comes out of a tendency to focus and follow in depth. this means it selects for a certain bias in task seleciton. however, due to tactical considerations, most of the useful work is exactly opposite.
BenBE: There's quite some EC in use currently. And be it all those "transparency logs"
Framedragger: you may be underestimating the scope of EC crypto in use on teh world. (then again, why should one care about a broken world anyway, sure)
BenBE: Lacking the resources for performing the ECDSA part right now anyway (thus low on the priority list)
Framedragger: i don't personally think it's a completely wasted effort if any backdoors in parameters are opened up to all, vs. just the owners.
mircea_popescu: seems if you were going after ecdsa you'd attack the curves not the keys. kind of a wasted effort seeing how the curve authors already know the holes and why the fuck would i bother when blacklisting works so well. but anyway.
BenBE: mircea_popescu: I planned on DSA/ECDSA, but that's quite low on the priority list right now. Attack on both works somewhat different and requires data collection not as easily obtained as with RSA.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's my stance : it is pointless to inquire in the mathematical security of x.509 and related source schemes, because they are not secure by design anyway.
mircea_popescu: you're asking me to find the second-possible cause of death of a corpse.
mircea_popescu: they still issue diddled certs anyway.
mircea_popescu: perhaps. but what is the return on that labour ?
mircea_popescu: are they verizon issued ? or whatever the imperial anointed scammer involved with this racket is
mircea_popescu: i guess could try and fish out the actual rsa keys from self-signed certs maybe
mircea_popescu: i thought it's a 100% imperial racket, they use whatever faux crypto currently fashionable.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: sure. but there are rsa keys in https certs out there. but yet to be empirically approached and estimated, sure
mircea_popescu: shinohai seems easier though to chase you to drop it than to add it to the log standards.
mircea_popescu: there aren't ~that many~ pki systems.
shinohai: I need to dig deeper into that, last attempt at removing the <> resulted in breaking the whole damned thing because python is a turd.
mircea_popescu: shinohai could it nuke those <>; it fucks up the logotrons
Framedragger: BenBE: you can generate the phuctor fingerprint for linking directly to phuctor via http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/crap-from-scans-to-be-sorted/phuctor-fp.py (could be useful)
shinohai: Pills are like phone apps in America it seems. "Oh you have the sniffles? There's a pill for that!"
mircea_popescu always prefers to treat all conditions with pills ~other people~ swallow.
BenBE: Getting the keys from the website is possible, but needing to scrape them is somewhat a bad solution (for all sides). The project I'm currently working on is an information service where you can ask for a public key or its fingerprint and the service will tell you some stuff about that key (type, where it was used before, has it been factored, is it sensibly sane, compromised and so on.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck are all these people with penis pill spam still doing. seriously know, it's been out what, 20 years ? anyone who wants it has some / knows where to get it. who the fuck goes "oh, wow, check it out, penis pills! ima get myself sum o dat!"
mircea_popescu: nice little trim ya got there f.
mircea_popescu: a there you go
mircea_popescu: then again he might not, seeing how who are you.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform linked a dump at some point, check the logs. the principal parts are a sks+trims (keybase, whatnot) dump that might be still available, though 2 years back in logs, and Framedragger 's ssh scan results, which he might share with you.
mircea_popescu: BenBE you mean the phuctor db ?
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 02:34 danielpbarron: shinohai, no i would not. might be adult swim bidding it up as a promo. On related note, wendy's fastfood chain is helping some highschool kid break world record retwats to promote their "chicken" nuggets. more than a million bots obliged in one day. goal is 18 million
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 22:44 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-08#1640534 << gurl dun like the disciplinary-sanitarium of 'civilized society' and gets diagnosed, unsurprisingly, with вялотекущая шизофрения (tm)(r)(su)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-08#1640567 << i suppose in the end the ustards will be remembered as "a group of know-nothings with bad answers for every question".
jurov: ben_vulpes: as they say - "moved networking to own thread. now i have two problems."
asciilifeform: it ain't new, it is copy of 'athena' ( the thing found on old suns, that made their ui eye-clawing fugly and painful to navigate )
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 21:17 phf: well, fwiw i've no idea if you can make clim non-ugly (i'm not even sure at this point what "ugly" means. you certainly can't trivially make it look the way "people come to expect")
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-08#1640545 << actually a new aesthetic would bne quite welcome. the apple shit died with jobs.
mircea_popescu: actually... the "russian rock concert" was a chick barely qualified to be the hottie in average senior hs class doing karaoke. her jeans were adorned with a scarf underlining her completely virginal inability to use her hips, and moreover she had one motor glove on, so it's ok.
ben_vulpes: not to the extent that i enjoy agent orange's, but every now and again i see a stack like http://imgur.com/gallery/yNlZI and get a few chuckles out of it
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: i enjoy the wendy's twitter
shinohai: hah mircea_popescu .... you survived the Russian chicks WITH NO POGROM!
ben_vulpes: from the interesting-claims-department: "we show that our targeted stack-spraying approach allows attackers to reliably control more than 91% of the Linux kernel stack, which, in combination with uninitialized-use vulnerabilities, suffices for a privilege escalation attack."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-08#1640534 << gurl dun like the disciplinary-sanitarium of 'civilized society' and gets diagnosed, unsurprisingly, with вялотекущая шизофрения (tm)(r)(su)
asciilifeform: the popup crapola, also, wtf, '90s microshit called, wants its ui back.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-08#1640547 << but also the, e.g., grey->white conjunction, makes for 'low contrast' feel, blur.
asciilifeform: possibly part of it is that the bolix font does not look pixellated.
asciilifeform: the clim -- different story.
asciilifeform: i quite like the high-contrast pure b&w thing.
asciilifeform: the bolix screenshits, interestingly, i do not find ugly
ben_vulpes: phf: i would be happy to try living in either of those 'ui's
ben_vulpes: jurov: qt necessarily requires performing networking on the ui thread?
jurov: however, i personally have no issues with ugliness. i hate most if it opaquely monopolizes event loop (like qt) and then networking is a problem
phf: well, that's the thing, the original backend from clim2 goes all the way back to genera, and it's literally all solid 1-pixel lines, and bulk of the display is text.
jurov: well, are there screenshots for clim2 ?
phf: but mcclim made some decisions early on, where the default x widgets set was designed to ~look~ like popular the time "athena" widget set. which made the whole thing even uglier.
phf: well, fwiw i've no idea if you can make clim non-ugly (i'm not even sure at this point what "ugly" means. you certainly can't trivially make it look the way "people come to expect")
phf: there's a working purey xlib backend that uses very minimal decoration and server side font-rendering. i'm trying to figure out how to make it look like not-shit, without compromising the integrity
phf: jurov: kind of, in a roundabout way. i gave up on mcclim and that whole crowd last time they were mentioned here, but i'm slowly reviving allegro's clim2
phf: couldn't find it, but he was basically correct. after jumping through a lot of retarded hoops i got to run xquartz on a retina mac at 1-to-1 pixel, and pretty much any of the type1 fonts at 230 or so look quite good
phf: i was trying to find tuomov's rant from 2007 or so (the guy behind Ion) where he basically said that anti-aliasing is a kludge, and we won't even need it once the dpi is high enough
shinohai: TIL the ability to buy coffee is what Satoshi envisioned all along.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: for my own education, if not too much trouble, when you have a minute, could you paste a few log lines from the webserver relating to the 1min wget'er?
Framedragger: wtf. i'll beat myself with a crontab manual, then
asciilifeform: they were until 10 or so min. ago.
Framedragger: so the 1min crawls, just to confirm - they were older, right? i did start with 1min on thursday; then turned it off on request; then re-enabled once/30min for stats page, once/60min for phuctored and once/60min for dupes.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: script log says the attempts are at the right frequency: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rUTs3/?raw=true - but i'm turning off these two now, for the time being.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: still wget'ing every minute? the 1min frequency was the initial frequency which i had promptly changed at timestamp http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-06#1638989
Framedragger: how the fuck did i screw this up. crontab is http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mYvHM/?raw=true
asciilifeform: i thought i oughta ask before i blackhole the entire subnet.