BingoBoingo: shinohai: Not yet, but the meetings I frequent tend to be the ones with the large coffee urns over mundane 12 cup drip machine.
shinohai: Somehow I imagine BingoBoingo owning one of those coffee urns like they have in funeral homes
BingoBoingo drinks drip brew coffee by the pot, perhaps has simply established warped relationship with beverages generally
shinohai: Nah, you drink first espresso shot in the morning, followed by delicious cigarette.
trinque: oh right. so two then...
trinque smells good tobacco, still has the anticipatory rush of "ah, my old friend"
BingoBoingo unsure journey from bed with morning jitters to breakfast gin quite counts as sober in the morning
asciilifeform: 'hey, i'll be sober in the morning, but you -- will stay ugly' or how it went.
BingoBoingo: Many crack afficianados are downright pleasant people 6 to 60 months out from smoking their last rock
BingoBoingo: distort thought seems to be common among stimulants, including amphetamines with the cocaine
shinohai: You don't stop giving the whores junk ......
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:19 asciilifeform: 'packing', and brute labour of whatever other kind, also can have sensation of 'inch away', read the tales of athletes in training, alpinists, pilots.
trinque: point was that it detunes the good-idea-inator badly
asciilifeform: who the fuck lets prisoner decide direction ?
trinque: might give you the will to march, but all directions seem equally great ideas
trinque: this is the kind of thing of which you're disabused after you reach your personal tolerance of bros telling you their great business idea
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> for that particular value of worx. << The second best treatment for addiction disorders is drugs of abuse
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform soviets similarily denied afghani whatever, then permitted again. this suggests - empire doesn't honestly gas.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> seems as if -- there could easily be. << Probably low hanging fruit
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> compress as-needed, blow -- as-needed. << Thinking on it, AC may be the one application where CVT transmission makes sense
asciilifeform: the spanish first denied the indians they were working to death, their coca, then permitted again. this suggests that coca -- works.
asciilifeform: if people dosed aspirin the way they dosed cocaine, they would decide that it, too, is useless.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i am not proposing an alternative for that function. doctor isn't in the line of proposing replacement for cocaine, and from the "i wanna feel good" perspective the whole pharmacopoea is a waste of space. << This is why CIA popularized freebase salt of cocaine
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cocaine is the eminent example. it FEELS like it does things to you. it does not therefore HELP. << The problems with cocaine hcl powder is that in little time even that feeling goes that and you are left with only feeling of wanting moar cocaine
asciilifeform: seems as if -- there could easily be.
asciilifeform: is there such a thing as a variable-ratio compressor ?
asciilifeform: you can't even ~get~ a peltier in anything like the size you would want for a room ac. would need hundred of'em.
asciilifeform: the starting/stopping of the compressor and the blower is also massive waste of energy.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i always wished there were such a thing as an ac with a throttle << Not throttle, needs adjustable clutch
shinohai: If the shitty, 4 year old hardware I run my node hasn't burnt down the house yet I'm highly optimistic for you mod6 :D
mod6: Ok, thanks for the update.
mod6: TomServo: any update on the issues you ran into?
mod6: it was quite something to behold. here's a lady, clinging to breath, hardly moves, then gets up and fights to young women.
mod6: then it was back to night-night.
mod6: they came over and gave her a pretty big dose of valium<sp> or whatever.
mod6: felt so bad for the young lady. it wasn't a hard punch or anything... but still. lol.
mod6: well, she was sleeping all day on saturday. then for a moment, she woke up, got pissed off, tried to get out of bed, fell down. then wrestled two nurses, and sucker punched one in the face.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
mod6: yeah, she's in hospice now. they're keeping her pretty comfortable.
mod6: i'd like to audit one of these fgs soon too.
mod6: the chip i've got is a 'xilinx spartan XC3S500E'
asciilifeform: ( there is unfortunately no such thing as a serial port that eats arbitrary baud rates. )
asciilifeform: if your dev board crystal is a power-of-2 multiple of your baud rate -- you're ok, just gotta change the divisor
asciilifeform: you may recognize the idiom -- it's a divisor by 128.
mod6: i did get that xilinx platform cable usb deal in the mail too.
asciilifeform: mod6: if you want to talk to a ttl-usb serial dongle, you gotta match one of the classical baud rates, or you get rubbish (and not the desired rubbish, either, but patterned rubbish -- or nothing at all)
asciilifeform: mod6: you could, but be mindful of the crystal
mod6: i was thinking about taking my xilinx board and seeing if I can throw your fg-genesis on there.
mircea_popescu: in other news, i deem http://trilema.com/2017/the-lordship-list-fourth-year/ a done deal ; trinque plox to update deedbot to reflect.
asciilifeform: a good chunk of the pain in this kind of work is the ~total lack of anything like the customary debugger. ( that, and the constraints of the medium - the very palpable differences between fpga and actual asic, but even in the latter there are physical delays )
asciilifeform: and will give you a little ability to debug (i hesitate to use the word)
asciilifeform: best to think of it as 'in iron', rather than 'in verilog', other ways to specify the same circuit, get you same result.
mod6: there's an example in here of a FIFO circular queue in verilog, neat.
asciilifeform: i recommend to study very carefully the diagrams that give examples of what gates particular snippets actually get synthed into, and why
asciilifeform: especially given as it is not quite so, and various sections have 'triggers' (particular signals that cause them to 'happen')
asciilifeform: again i'll reminds, hard part for n00bs is not 'verilog' but rather the basic idea of 'program where all lines execute at once'
asciilifeform: mod6: it's an ok b00k. there is not, afaik, a 'great' one
mod6: thx for the heads up
mod6: i cut apart 50 .dat files. noodle on that for a minute. and these dickweeds want BIGGER blocks.
mod6: there's like 180k+ blocks in blk0001.dat
mod6: a good test either way.
mod6: wrote a perl one liner to cut them all apart with blkcut... now just gotta feed 'em in.
mod6: im about to try to load up this offline phys box with all the blocks.
asciilifeform: last thing i played was, iirc, 'hearts of iron'. then lent the box to brother , in feb., and hadn't had time to touch it since
mircea_popescu: we even have / had a guild there
mod6: need to get the last few hours
asciilifeform: 'babbage problem' is not escapable, it does not come from the poor machine, no. 'pebkac'.
mircea_popescu: there's truly no way to make it do strange things.
asciilifeform: cranked arithmometers were spiffy, for their time, american 'manhattan' project ran on'em
asciilifeform: there were many many clones.
mircea_popescu: afaik the total run was a few hundred k items.
asciilifeform: actually the 300k figure seems to refer to just 1 year.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even the infamous 'felix' only sold 300k.
mircea_popescu: if pressed i wouldn't even have imagined there were 1mn people who doi things left in the 80s us.
asciilifeform: this 800k (or 1mil, or whichever) is an amazing number, because it isn't a pile of britney records. these were ~people~ buying.
asciilifeform: was in fact one of the few folx who made genuine advances for the micro. whose cake microshit proceeded to swallow.
asciilifeform: to get the word out to the primary consumers, who were financial people. [Editor’s note: A total of over 800,000 copies were sold by May of 1985, when Lotus purchased Software Arts and ceased marketing VisiCalc]'
asciilifeform: '...A few dealers knew what they were doing and got their salespeople excited about it. Because of VisiCalc, one of the Burlington, Massachusetts, dealers became the most successful Apple dealer in the country at that time. Two of its salesmen ended up as two of the founders of Lotus (the original team that brought out 1-2-3). We only sold about 1000 a month for the first few months because we had
mircea_popescu: for the time it's quite hyper.
asciilifeform: that was the pc port
asciilifeform: and this dun include the comp
asciilifeform: 300 ( 1980 usd ) for the proggy
mircea_popescu: got a number to save me from fishing through the memorabilia tripod ?
asciilifeform: this is even though the latter is quite superior, at least in raw capacity, speed, to the former.
asciilifeform: consider, visicalc was hyperbestseller among 'people who do things'; while the bare micro, even with rom basic -- was not.
asciilifeform: can deal in 'human' concepts, that make sense on grid paper just the same as on the comp.
asciilifeform: not the least of reasons for this being that you don't need the deformed monkey any moar
asciilifeform: and in that sweet spot, beats the shit out of perl.
asciilifeform: but -- quite like the plastic scissors they issue to kindergarteners and asylum inmates, the thing ~does~ have a sweet spot in which it ~works.
asciilifeform: i can easily picture mircea_popescu's excelists tho. the thing does ~not~ behave gracefully at the outer limits of what it does.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, they want to do things that don't involve talking to girls or ~~~horror of horrors~~~ being at their call.
mircea_popescu: which is ~how "from scratch for srs db" projects even end up engaged in by banks and their ilk. the it dept is pushing relentlessly for away-from-excel for this reason every single board meeting.
mircea_popescu: and my party girls would not have been well served by the soviet dress fashions for professional females cca 1965.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but at the cost of, you know, http://trilema.com/2013/why-mpex-is-better-than-fiat-institutions-part-349085-we-dont-use-excel/#selection-31.16-31.118
mircea_popescu: and this goes right back ot the literacy vs hyeroglyphs thread, amusingly enough.
asciilifeform: specifically, the 'this produces no meaningful answer and i have nfi why' situation never happens.
mircea_popescu: it's just not clear that the particular sense is actually relevant in any public sense.
mircea_popescu: (and no, it NEVER happened that two people in the same team using the same tools actually had compatible notions of what the tools did.)
mircea_popescu: before coming up with the "Write it down. By hand." i had an excel depacker, which cost me literal man-years to have made and tuned, and which was good but far from perfect.
asciilifeform: intelligent (in the glass bead sense) folx who are unbound from reality, tend to birth monsters.
asciilifeform: the excelolade of the people who asciilifeform worked with, who had to juggle physical objects every day, was reasonably sane.
asciilifeform: i'd guess that it happens most to folx who are ~wholly untethered to reality ( financial models, say, of elaborate scamola that sums to 0 at the end of the day, rather than , say, titrations )
mircea_popescu: it's examinable in the sense xilinx is examinable.
mircea_popescu: in my own (limited) experience, every time i found myself consulting for this lot i had them write, by hand, in narrative form, what they thought their excels did.
mircea_popescu: the attempt to understand another's excel pile is not unliuke trying to grok the intended functioning of the preferred emacs setup of a rabid squirrel.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 18:29 phf: ok, i guess we both know what the problem is. my solution is "study db related algorithms until you know enough to write a db", your solution, unless i misunderstand, seems to be "use an existing database a lot". i don't understand how learning, say, postgresql will get you from not knowing anything about db internal design to writing your own
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641504 << From experience, there's a definite slot for learning filled by sql. i personally show girls how to use a db for their own shit, which may be simply grocery lists ("now tell me how many kgs of pepper we bought by day last year"). truthg be told the path to a structured mind is long and arduous.
asciilifeform: when you let ~one~ flunky write ~one~ perl script, on other hand..
asciilifeform: when whole thing is excel -- the 60 y.o. buffett at the top, theoretically understands the flow.
asciilifeform: i can see a legit pov for the 'no sql' folx. 'you will NOT introduce programmerolade into our process flow, creating work for maggots like yerself and marrying our corp to your lazy and entitled arse' approx.
mircea_popescu: hey, i see not the drawback.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if they 'banned stupid' -- would have to ban self, as a class, the entire yacht set
mircea_popescu: lobbes see, because they made the mistake of banning things instead of simply banning stupid.
asciilifeform: lobbes: if you take work as a programmer where they program ~meat~ -- don't be surprised
mircea_popescu: let the man play with his excel and feel happy, just like some writers prefer to sketch their novels in gf's faeces on bathroom floor. none of this makes gf shit an economically relevant inkwell system.
lobbes was dismayed when I came in, automated a 40 hr excel proccess down to about 10mins just by using sql (access of all the god awful things) only to be told it was verboten
trinque: or biologist, goes on safari, starts catalog of observations, begins drawing relationships between them
mircea_popescu: i am not proposing an alternative for that function. doctor isn't in the line of proposing replacement for cocaine, and from the "i wanna feel good" perspective the whole pharmacopoea is a waste of space.
trinque: mircea_popescu: what'd the guy's classification and distinction device look like in the alternative?
mircea_popescu: you realise all it takes is for someone to salt the parking lot with hello kitty usbs.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 23:58 trinque: the accountant fellow I mentioned, for $100mil scale oil contract compliance, also excel macros.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641735 << place I'm currently contracting at, a big bank in southeast (you can prolly guess), it is literally written in policy:no sql allowed, only excel
trinque: the vast majority of the accountant guy's job is defining categories, listing their properties, relating them to each other
mircea_popescu: and this goes directly to all the "no mp, dope totally makes you a better thinker" threads.
mircea_popescu: cocaine is the eminent example. it FEELS like it does things to you. it does not therefore HELP.
mircea_popescu: trinque the issue is that just because it felt convenient to the wee tyke it doesn't follow it is ~useful~.
mircea_popescu: !!deed for instance works fine by my eyes, but it does not pass the "monkey do, monkey see" test.
asciilifeform: btw most of the folx reading this now own a perfectly good example of a non von neumann comp and program for same -- FUCKGOATS
asciilifeform: it is an artifact of painful rigidity. you cannot work steel the way one works plasticine, for elementary physical reasons.
mircea_popescu: batching was the preferred mode of engineers. historically.
asciilifeform: makes it behave like a sane physical system, whether clockwork or circuit:
asciilifeform: everyone laughs at excel, but microshit did not invent spreadshit. spreadshit was 'killer app', arguably, for the original micros, because it introduces a modicum of sanity to the otherwise idiotic von neumann comp
asciilifeform: right here, in the cnc mill.
mircea_popescu: there's no hard guarantee such wonder is possible.
mircea_popescu: this seems about as unlikely as saying "in sane russia, sexually attractive women and women with pleasant personalities are the same woman"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in sane field, the 2 are 1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i make most of my money out of being capable to use the tool that's adequate for the job whereas everyone else just goes with the fastest loop.
asciilifeform: but really for the pain tolerance
asciilifeform: and they get paid for this
asciilifeform: long ooda loops are ~poison~, and that excel continues to win this contest, is to the undying shame of the field
asciilifeform: the short ooda loop.
mircea_popescu: it's their hypercad. "When i was a wee tyke this seemed like srs bzns"
asciilifeform: i found why they liked it. it wasn't even the familiarity (some walked in knowing not even it)
shinohai: http://archive.is/dbzpt <<< NYPD to emulate Ethereum blokechain for bodycam accountability
mircea_popescu: "it makes me feel good." "go to the strip club."
trinque: the accountant fellow I mentioned, for $100mil scale oil contract compliance, also excel macros.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem of wastage in opaque faux capitalism.
mircea_popescu: and no, the excel mentiuon was not a throwaway joke. it is factual reality, even today.
asciilifeform: that makes for at least 2 publicly-known designated-winners-losers equivalence classes. probably there are more.
mircea_popescu: au contraire, you'd be petrified what they run on.
mircea_popescu: so, with some regret, i will confess that no, high finance doth not qualify as that place where they have real software (tm).
asciilifeform: ( in combination with 'it dun matter if you make it 5ns faster, packets from goldman sachs still take magical priority on the other end, For Reasons' )
mircea_popescu: the people paying themselves megabux aren't going to be doing for the reason they told you they did it.
asciilifeform: the people paying megabux for cage near nyse, nasdaq, either exist or are product of elaborate disinfo. if the former, it would make sense for them to carry out the -- comparatively inexpensive -- software optimization prior to buying $mil cage.
mircea_popescu: how exactly this is disbursed, whether you need rifle to hunt and then crown taxes rifles, ie, through a technically mediated barrier, or purely conventional, is not properly speaking a technical discussion.
asciilifeform: ( it they do not exist, it is then a piece of evidence in favour of 'hft does not actually exist, you cannot actually make any money by undercutting by nanosecond ' )
mircea_popescu: then someone piled a java machine on top of that.
mircea_popescu: yes, someone somewhere wrote the asm
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whether or not the 'nanosecs matter and we write it in asm' hft traders are real -- or mythical -- i do not know. but if hft worked the way it is purported to work, they ought to exist.
mircea_popescu: about half the "pro" trading houses do about half of their trading on the basis of poorly understood and badly maintained excel spreadsheets.
mircea_popescu: but in truth and behind the scene it's 100% code reuse in the most "found on forum and pasted in" manner.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:47 asciilifeform: if your operation seriously relies on the db, it implements custom db, from scratch, like the hft trading folks do.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641453 << the hft trading folk are about as dumb as the "serious www publishing folk". the "implement from scratch" thing is a fiction, there to justify insane and unjustifiable expense. exaclty how and exactly why any third hand "outside consultant" in third world sells random dopes on "whole new cms!!11" for their "project" so it is "for srs professional".
mircea_popescu: (ivanhoe. great film. there's trial by combat!)
mircea_popescu: you're both welcome now shake hands and stop being so pissy all the time. life's too square and my fruit salad too good to waste suchly!
mircea_popescu: now guess what the problem is.
mircea_popescu: well, alfie, there could ALSO EXIST SUCH A THING AS A PROGRAMMABLE COMPUTER
asciilifeform: trinque: i entirely agree re above -- there could be such a thing as 'reusable encyclopaedia of data structures'. problem is, it dun exist yet.
mircea_popescu: not the nonsensical "oh, paperclip!" microsoft access / lotus 1-2-3 / novell bs approach
trinque: ^ not coming across is why the thread was ridiculous
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this, i am aware. but i suspect the "concept of db" trinque defends is "here is the set of definitive -- because mature -- things that handle data ; fucking use it".
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 19:16 trinque: whole point having been that there are useful items in there that all got welded together
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:37 phf: well, right, but you're not going to learn how to db by ~running~ databases. the whole "db" thing is an illusion anyway. rtrees, btrees, indexes, locking mechanisms, mvcc are all concrete algorithms, that you can implement in an adhoc manner for your task at hand and actually see how they work and what they do.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641431 << there are some advantages to having a standard package of these things everyone uses (this is called maturity) and no serious drawback to calling that package "a database".
mircea_popescu: unlike the french word ingenieur, for instance. which comes from genius, or whatever, ingenuity
asciilifeform: ( on train they were even called, in english-speaking world, engineers!! )
mircea_popescu: actually the english word engineer denotes furnace stoker.
asciilifeform: www engineer << at one point there were furnace stokers, also.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:31 asciilifeform: i have actual work to do, and do not have time to babysit the process all day, every day.
ben_vulpes: schizophrenic weather gods will continue with the increasingly bipolar weather until the humans die off adequately to restore ecological sanity
asciilifeform: for the reason described earlier.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what would that do ? if you cool the air, and lower the dew point, not even garden hose will make it hold any more water than remained in it after the cooling
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you could get your ac connected to the water pipe -- like the fridges with built in ice maker.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why the hysteresis?
mircea_popescu: it rained once while i was there. took 5 minutes, most of the water was gone before touching soil.
ben_vulpes: too dry, doesn't have the nasty taste of reality
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i always wished there were such a thing as an ac with a throttle
ben_vulpes: i rather dislike "conditioned" air
asciilifeform: i do know that there are places where the air is hot and ~dry~, and ac has no drain pipe -- but never yet been there.
mircea_popescu: btw -- i have no ac here. the girls are naked indoors. it's fabulous.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform once switched planes in panama and ( it had outdoor walk, instead of the customary human pipe ) thought 'just like home'
mircea_popescu: even in buenos aires, of every 10kw the ac ate, 7 to 8 made water.
asciilifeform: it's one of the worst things in dc, it is
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu described argentines as borderline tards but i don't recall hearing a story like this about them...
mircea_popescu: then... she doesn't know how much for the dozen. if they're 400 each then 12 is... 3600...
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : me goes into shop where girl has bought nice shot glasses to buy shot glasses. "do you have these in a box ?" "yes" "how many in the box ?" "uhh..." nicaraguan chick is very much willing to be picked up but has nfi how many shot glasses in 3x4 case.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:17 trinque: can either bitch like a woman or fix the pain now and also move off later
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641378 << you now have cold sores. can either bitch about it or... wait for them to pass ?
asciilifeform did, ftr, end up descending into the darkest depths of his chamber of pain and cracking a b00k, with the aim of determining -- which. this op has not yet returned.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:15 phf: ascii actually can criticize postgresql from the position of understanding. knowing intricacies of psql is not knowledge (rtrees, caching, etc.), it's trivia ("you have to turn lever 3 and depress button Y"). ascii knows what he needs to express, but he can't express it directly, because he's running against architectural constraints of his tool. from that perspective a general "databases are shit" is an entirely valid perspective.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641374 << this is a perfectly reasonable view, and it'd carry were it not be tinged by a history of asciilifeform on occasion producing overgeneral statements not because he ran against design constraints of the space but because he ran against mental constraints of his own.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:07 phf: tmsr work is primarily defined by its voluntary nature, if i had to do things same way i do it at the office i wouldn't bother. ascii doesn't know intricacies of psql from his day job, and i think it's cruel and inhuman to make him study psql ~as part of tmsr work~. it's not the kind of know how you get to learn by sitting down with a cup of tea and a large printout..
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641370 << it all revolves on whether the $item is fundamental or not. if it's fundamental -- not inhuman to make him study, inhuman to allow him to squeak past without studying.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:03 phf: trinque is the resident psql guru, he managed to wire his 50 request lisp process to a postgresql database
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 15:57 phf: they laughed at me when i said btcbase doesn't use a database, who's laughin now
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641360 << they didn't laugh, they were taken aback at the magic.
mircea_popescu: as asciilifeform correctly points out, there's not THAT much of a deal to insert an article once a day / a comment once an hour and otherwise serve reads.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641354 << this is an iffy discussion. trilema does very little backend but more front end. phuctor the reverse. i think they're very complementary wrt the load type.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, math finance goes through one of these every 3-4 years (ie, every time a new crop of collegiate tards ends up dominating the hiring pool)
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> o brother. you were here for the ito experts huh. << Nah, came for the drinks, stayed for the revolution.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, for all the ulterior leonization, the actual wild west was very much like this : buncha children captive in adult bodies trying to cope.
BingoBoingo: * shinohai imagines Vitalik reading the logs an thing mircea_popescu meant `Asi` is a new groundbreaking algorithm ..... << Ass Sort Integrals, some very deep "Ito calculus"
shinohai imagines Vitalik reading the logs an thing mircea_popescu meant `Asi` is a new groundbreaking algorithm .....
mircea_popescu: you know, when trump gets elected. when the niggers who figured they were gonna use "consensus" to get the delicious chicken fail to get the delicious chicken.
shinohai: https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/851307750495801348 "I'd rather have a consensus failure every year than intense constant bickering."
trinque: probably about as southern as it gets, that one
trinque: phf: one thing they don't do is speak for the other, then proceed from there as if it'd been said
phf: apparently that's not how they do things down south. once a grudge always a grudge. fine. we can agree not to talk to each other at all, nor mention each others names. i was sticking to that policy, and it worked fine for me. good day.
phf: then why speak to me at all? i was arguing in good faith, as an attempt to move on from our previous alteration
phf: if that was such an obvious assumption, then why evade addressing it? that would've saved the whole thread! my assumption was ~very obvious~ as you yourself state ~all through the thread~, because ~that's what i assumed~
phf: you clearly have some twisted issues related to me. ~that was not my intent~. ~i genuinely think that you were speaking of pulling levers~ ~because there's nowhere in the thread where you attempted to dissuade me of my notion~
trinque: that running forward with a bare assumption and then spending the whole thread trying to smash opponent into it has been the rule with you
trinque: you made the assumption that when I was speaking of the things merits, I was speaking of what, the lever you pull and not what it actuates?
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 19:35 phf: but that's a roundabout way, and you could just read about it in a blog. if the position is that "we should study postgresql source code extensively, as a necessary prerequisite to writing our own database", then i would agree with you, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying
phf: if anybody else can find a trinque quote that says an equivalent of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641538 i will apologize, otherwise i guess this stands.
phf: but that's a roundabout way, and you could just read about it in a blog. if the position is that "we should study postgresql source code extensively, as a necessary prerequisite to writing our own database", then i would agree with you, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying
shinohai: https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/04/booby-trapped-word-documents-in-the-wild-exploit-critical-microsoft-0day/
trinque: I described how the thing writes rows to disk.
phf: trinque: well, then why not say it when i asked if you were talking about crackign open the source code? now i actually think that you're lying