a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 16:05 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667688 >> gold, '...they often go through exchanges hosted outside the US... unlicensed, unregulated and unwilling to abide by basic anti-money laundering and know-your-customer regulations, rules that digital currency exchanges in the US and Western Europe must abide by... If Congress and regulators are serious about tackling the national security implications of digital currencies, taking on these
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667718 << hurr durr. they've been going on this whole "We shall not name MPEx because it only exists if WE say the name" for 5 years + now.
asciilifeform: well, theoretically box consisting of two gurlz with telegraph keys, relaying packets by hand -- not porous. but this is not what folx typically buy as 'router'..
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 15:01 asciilifeform: in other lullies, https://archive.is/OExoO >> nsaware using ~second~ intel fritz chip boobytrap, found
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667692 << this stupid bs being most of why the common wisdom is you want a router in the first place. of course, router also made by same idiots...
shinohai: Now it's like he isn't even trying to hide the fact he suck LE cock though.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667688 << doh. it's ~the only reason he's even here, trying to eke out some relevancy for his dead empire in the new world.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell Framedragger do you perchance remember where in the logs i posted phuctor's key parser ?
mircea_popescu: !!later tell sina a) dun need to msg me the day's log, i always read it anyway and b) yeah, the prototype actually implements an older spec. trivial to revise if one cares to, was published.
asciilifeform: i see 2 lines of the needed 'image fix and a bunch of ???
asciilifeform: neato mod6 , post the diff plox.
mod6: speaking of ada stuff. i did get horsecocks to compile just fine with the changes that were discussed previously with diana_coman
asciilifeform: (e.g. the put_line 'image thing, say )
a111: Logged on 2013-04-04 19:17 asciilifeform: consider a hardware widget that receives a single-use CC number (for $X) from a hypothetical BTC-enabled bank and writes it to a blank physical ATM card, when you send the bank $X equiv. of BTC.
ben_vulpes: ubermenschen like asciilifeform who Never Release Imperfect Code would obviously rule the leaderboards
ben_vulpes: heh, perfectly cranky republican gentleman's sport of code review: nobody will tell you what bugs they found, but they might give you a sha256 description of one
asciilifeform: s other locations in Maryland and elsewhere.'
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/i1Usl << from same fishwrap >> 'Two members of the US Army National Guard have been convicted of running a credit card fraud scheme involving bitcoin... using bitcoins to purchase stolen credit and debit card numbers... using magnetic strip re-encoding tools to apply stolen numbers to dummy cards, after which they would buy merchandise from Army and Air Force Exchange Service stores at US military bases, as well a
jhvh1: ben_vulpes: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667688 >> gold, '...they often go through exchanges hosted outside the US... unlicensed, unregulated and unwilling to abide by basic anti-money laundering and know-your-customer regulations, rules that digital currency exchanges in the US and Western Europe must abide by... If Congress and regulators are serious about tackling the national security implications of digital currencies, taking on these
ben_vulpes: heh tangentially, i've forbidden anything even verging on "i told you sos" without the teller having told
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667638 << i contemplated whether to show ben_vulpes ~all~ of the mistakes in his proggy, or to let him find for himself, decided on the latter ( it's a healthy thing )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 09:05 mircea_popescu: and i suspect alf is either making a c one or trying to talk himself into it
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 09:00 sina: I am a big fan of the 600 lines of python idea, using libraries to offload stuff to C where appropriate
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667608 << ~100% of the cpu-bound operation is already offloaded to optimized multithreaded c.
asciilifeform: every once in a while i also post, publicly, copy of the db: it's ~12G, gzipped, presently. this oughta be enough for anyone.
asciilifeform: ( pgpdump -i gives you the modulus etc. from any pgp key; then multiply the factors : instant verification. )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 08:46 sina: do you know if the src for phuctor is avail?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667584 << it is not, and ain't going to be, i'm not especially interested in helping folx to 'embrace and extinguish' it. as far as i'm concerned, 100% of the output is verifiable with the bignum calculator of your choice (e.g. 'bc') and it is no concern of anybody's how it was obtained.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 08:56 sina: you can also use eventlet wsgi on the frontend to offload the http side as well
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667600 << i'ma depythonize and desqlize it, but currently lack the time
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 08:49 sina: mircea_popescu: let me rephrase then. was wondering if eventlet db_pool http://eventlet.net/doc/modules/db_pool.html had been considered
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667588 << i have an ad-hoc version of something quite similar, in there already. it doesn't help much, because phuctor is actually THREE independent (communicating solely via the db) unix processes
asciilifeform: in other lullies, https://archive.is/OExoO >> nsaware using ~second~ intel fritz chip boobytrap, found
jhvh1: sina: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 12:50 sina: from my reading of http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/ it seems like the "screw" and "half screw" operations, "screwing S in R" means, R will be changed, and "screwing R in S" means S will be changed. the footnote (ii) examples support this interpretation. but in the prototype implementation http://trilema.com/mp_fabulous_hashonator.php ...it seems like the "step 1" half screw S in R
jhvh1: sina: Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "mircea_popescu" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 12:50 sina: from my reading of http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/ it seems like the "screw" and "half screw" operations, "screwing S in R" means, R will be changed, and "screwing R in S" means S will be changed. the footnote (ii) examples support this interpretation. but in the prototype implementation http://trilema.com/mp_fabulous_hashonator.php ...it seems like the "step 1" half screw S in R
jhvh1: sina: Error: I haven't seen mircea_popescu, I'll let you do the telling.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 12:50 sina: from my reading of http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/ it seems like the "screw" and "half screw" operations, "screwing S in R" means, R will be changed, and "screwing R in S" means S will be changed. the footnote (ii) examples support this interpretation. but in the prototype implementation http://trilema.com/mp_fabulous_hashonator.php ...it seems like the "step 1" half screw S in R
sina: from my reading of http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/ it seems like the "screw" and "half screw" operations, "screwing S in R" means, R will be changed, and "screwing R in S" means S will be changed. the footnote (ii) examples support this interpretation. but in the prototype implementation http://trilema.com/mp_fabulous_hashonator.php ...it seems like the "step 1" half screw S in R
shinohai: Morning sina .... I likely cannot be of help in that regard yet. I'm still student of the logz there and mucking around with ben_vulpes lisp.
ben_vulpes: i suspect something in the flip.
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: 64 steps, 1 bits for the state machine. hash: #*1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: 381 steps, 382 bits for the state machine. hash: #*1000000001000000001111011011111001010000111110100010100100100011
ben_vulpes: i'm going to see dragons in these numbers if i keep this up
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 06:51 ben_vulpes: at least the low dough lolz emporium isn't out of stock entirely
ben_vulpes: because i've yet to learn the dark arts of macro wizardry, and it's dangerous, and so it gets filed as dangerous stuff i don't understand yet.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: naively, i passed a function called from within the scope a reference to the thing
mircea_popescu: scoping, neh ? how'd you fuck up the data from outside ?
ben_vulpes: from a function defined outside the loop macro
mircea_popescu: on the positive side, candi_lustt is more than happy to let you try out your code on her teats.
mircea_popescu: it works in the sense of doing something ; but not in the sense of oding what it's supposed to.
mircea_popescu: and i suspect alf is either making a c one or trying to talk himself into it
mircea_popescu: but! if you're looking for something to sink teeth in right now, either a c or python mpfhf impl is prolly a ghood moive
sina: mircea_popescu: I work on the biggest python turd of all, OpenStack :P
sina: it's got to be fast and correct to be able to do the concurrency, so that hopefully dampens that kind of thing
sina: I am a big fan of the 600 lines of python idea, using libraries to offload stuff to C where appropriate
mircea_popescu: phuctor is vaguely slated for a 4th iirc rewrite to decouple the front end and other stuff. so i guess this goes in the literature review pile for when.
sina: (assuming the phuctor python app is written wsgi compatible)
sina: db_pool is about 500 lines, and I guess there is some lower level stuff behind that
mircea_popescu: the library
sina: how many lines is the whole library? or how many lines do you need to add to your app to use it?
sina: mircea_popescu: let me rephrase then. was wondering if eventlet db_pool http://eventlet.net/doc/modules/db_pool.html had been considered
sina: do you know if the src for phuctor is avail?
a111: Logged on 2017-04-07 16:03 asciilifeform: does he IMMEDIATELY get a bookmarkable link based on the key's hash ? that he can come back to next hour, next day, next decade ? if so, how ??
ben_vulpes: at least the low dough lolz emporium isn't out of stock entirely
mircea_popescu: for the c0k ? why else would she go down.\
ben_vulpes: and i turned logging off while flailing at linux so i have nfi why she went down right there
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: a casual manual inspection suggests my implementation is catastrophically broken, but i spent the evening twiddling bots, so haven't put the time into figuring out what might be wrong.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: pisspot - Wiktionary: <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pisspot>; Urban Dictionary: pisspot: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3Fterm%3Dpisspot>; Jimmy Riddle & The Piss'pots 'Live in 1984' PT1 - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DRo8CUZhjDHc>
BingoBoingo: !~google "The Pisspots"
BingoBoingo: !!google "The Pisspots"
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> wotopen at any rate << For most codechimps this is the most closed of all
mircea_popescu: there's also that. depends whose code though
ben_vulpes: trying to read open source is in no way a road to literacy either.
mircea_popescu: myeah. there's this very pernicious "i could read any book, therefore i'm just as good as one who actually did so read" nonsense that;s by now 100% of white culture by mass.
trinque: for that matter their literacy
mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear the faux "empowerment" open-allcomers generates in the allcomers is actually good for anyone.
trinque: BingoBoingo: open code's still the only way to do it, only those involved mustn't be so poor as to worry about giving away words
trinque: heh, bringing up these old window managers reminds me of a more optimistic time in re: computing in my youth
jhvh1: asciilifeform: flwm: <http://flwm.sourceforge.net/>; FLWM - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLWM>; Ubuntu Manpage: flwm - The Fast Light Window Manager: <http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/flwm.1.html>
asciilifeform: http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/ratpoison.git/log << some of the changes are at least somewhat wtf
asciilifeform: and holyshit, there's a new release?!!
mod6: probably will switch to fvwm when i get all the configs in place.
mod6: went together pretty easily.
shinohai: http://archive.is/Zlp1i <<< Work for Qntra instead, where sharing screenshots of pron around the office is encouraged.
mircea_popescu: good for you then lel
asciilifeform: the lead pig in which it is to spend the rest of its life, is - fortunately - also here.
asciilifeform: thing is regulation-sized , but theoretically such an item oughta have been sent by fedex. but, go figure.
asciilifeform: in other noose, the (microscopic) ra-226 ( for MB/s 'gold standard' rng test ) came. asciilifeform was half-convinced that it'd get swallowed by the post
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 15:56 asciilifeform: #1 major at umd !11 ( i shit thee not )
ben_vulpes: tested one way, used another.
asciilifeform: oddly enough you knew this when writing the tests
asciilifeform: again i did not even go over whole thing, this was only the 1st bit to stick out to naked eye
asciilifeform: this might not be the only mistake
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: post yours, then reconciliate?
mircea_popescu: iirc the problem was that my implementation was of an earlier spec.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: while the individual operations work, it does not yield what mircea_popescu's implementation yields
mircea_popescu: for as long as they can keep burning granpa's furniture to power the pretense machine, i suppose they can keep pretending like that matters.
asciilifeform: they happily return same favour.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't find it objectionable. it IS however disqualifying, for their claims as to the self. in other words, i don't respect them above chattels, and there's a fine reason why i'm right to not respect them above chattels : right here.
ben_vulpes: i suspect that i hadn't yet verified output against the runs that mircea_popescu posted
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
asciilifeform: incidentally, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667388 >> recall harrison, inventor of temperature-compensated chronometer, per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-10#1429335 ; in other contexts mircea_popescu does not even seem to find this kind of thing objectionable, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115
asciilifeform: ^ lol, apparently was entirely other thing, long ago
asciilifeform: dun seem to be in the logs
asciilifeform: link to 1 other than mircea_popescu's php ?
asciilifeform: also somebody gotta come up with the tourney judge proggy itself, neh
mircea_popescu: 0 useful work, +inf pointless blather.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 15:48 asciilifeform: show me the 60y.o. who 'test me!1111'
mircea_popescu: either that or if mp waits till november...
asciilifeform: (at the most recent rate)
asciilifeform: btw, lulzily, if mircea_popescu makes the prize ~11 btc, it will be moar than the eu thing
mircea_popescu: that';s what i mean, it's really very minimalistically built for the purpose of showing a set of idiots they;re idiots.
asciilifeform: from whence the 16 ?
mircea_popescu: especially the "arbitrary" epithet is meaningless -- anything seems arbitrary to the disinterested. and otherwise, everything's a prng etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's is actually the slightly more complicated one.
asciilifeform: i dare say the pot is a little bigger, in that casino
a111: Logged on 2017-05-23 03:18 asciilifeform: the 'formulate as predictor' came from asciilifeform's ongoing regular stabs at breaking shitoshi's rng.
mircea_popescu: ie, this model GIVES AWAY what the ourdemocracy retards imagine is the whole job, and leaves them to you know, apply "jus' the facts"
mircea_popescu: but the fact remains -- you have "The book" ie a complete description of the god machine. all that's left is to you know, apply them "just the facts" in context.
mircea_popescu: no, you get the info, you just don't directly get how it relates to you.
mircea_popescu: in fact, every single player that spends 256 rounds finding out the functions achieves the historical goal of all human science. in this alt universe, it's not "ars longa" etc, it's a specified, 256 step process.
mircea_popescu: you can, for instance, obtain the complete and correct list of the functions in the machine.
mircea_popescu: there's an ennumerable list of "get infos"
asciilifeform: ( i was half-convinced that mircea_popescu did this exercise as a response to the dieharder thread )
mircea_popescu: this is not the case here.
mircea_popescu: whole thing started as a dispute re the practical meaning of learning.
asciilifeform: where you cry and then die
mircea_popescu: hey, i already made a game. this was the reality teaching tool.
asciilifeform: ( rather, poor gameplay )
mircea_popescu: it just fails to be biased in favbour of internet-shithead-generation nonsense, wikitardia et all.
mircea_popescu: so if anything, the model is biased re the theoretical possibility of learning, by overstating it.
mircea_popescu: in any case -- it's not just that there's A LOT of leakage of actual information from universe to player. it's that irl there's provably less.
mircea_popescu: that's the fucking point. as bama well observed, "my old man used to gamble when he plantted his field and prtayed dfor rain. i figure if a man's gonna gamble, might as well do it without plowing."
mircea_popescu: moreover i imagine ima actually work it like this : anyone can add as many agents as they wish for 1 bitcent per ; total pot minus what the simulation costs is divided to top scoring agents.
asciilifeform: ( or shitoshidice or whatever the current vegas is )
mircea_popescu: that would be the point, exactly.
mircea_popescu: and it keeps going from there, next step eg (-2 * 35 * 7 x + 14 * 35 * 7) / 16**2
mircea_popescu: you end up with fn initialized as say -2 x + 14 and then on the first pas it becomes say -2 * 35 / 16 x + 14 * 35 / 16
mircea_popescu: they start as ints.
asciilifeform: *rather
asciilifeform: well, ratherm int8s
asciilifeform: 2).' << sounds like the params are uint8's, from this description
asciilifeform: 'This ISR describes a total of 256 linear functions, indexed in a one-byte list. Each function is of the format ai X + bi, with i taking values from 0 to 255. For each byte in the ISR : the first bit will set ai to negative if 1, and to positive otherewise ; the second bit will set ai to either 1 or 2 ; the third bid will set bi to negative if 1 and to positive otherwise ; the remainder five bits will set the value of bi (from 1 to 3
mircea_popescu: the state is kept as bytes, except for a and b parameters of linear functions, which are reals, and which change through division by ints.
asciilifeform: this is not obvious from the recipe
mircea_popescu: (the transition is via fractionals, as you can see)
mircea_popescu: it'd seem to me the model as described does in fact generate reals properly from rng.
asciilifeform: floats suck mightily, incidentally, especially for 'model reality' or whichever involving rng -- because your uniform rng now becomes a skewed shitsoup because the number line is now unevenly populated
mircea_popescu: whole fucking point here is the deux-pez is not a fully computable machine.
mircea_popescu: but imo in this application, the problems of reals actually are used, for our purpose.
mircea_popescu: and i see no way out of having reals sadly, because gotta vary the function list somehow.
mircea_popescu: you never xor the reals.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 04:22 mircea_popescu: btw @all, lemme know if you have complaints/comments re the whole b itcoin learning thing before it gets drywalled.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667112 << i'd like to be rid of the floating point
mircea_popescu: you should see the coffee here btw. it's fucking incredible.
asciilifeform: serving coffee, in modern-day usa, is seen as 'rock bottom', possibly like picking cotton once was -- there is a seemingly infinite bureaucrat population, and drinks seemingly infinite litrage of coffee
mircea_popescu: dork wasn't perceiving itself as part of a cheapo corporate culture ; on THE CONTRARY!!!11
mircea_popescu: culture shock of all time, when mp ran into barrista, pointed out to her that he didn't give a shit about what her supposded name is either, when they started the whole nametag crap in the 70s.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd be amazed at what gets written on the cup.
mircea_popescu: nono, it WRITES YOUR NAME ON THE CUP
mircea_popescu: the incomprehensible part is where the parents don't chain them naked to posts and whip them until they escape or die.
asciilifeform: the typical outcome is a) marriage b) starbucks
asciilifeform: they then declare 'pre-law' or 'pre-med' (these are not majors, but specific 'flavour mixins' of courses that qualify them to attempt to get into med or law )
mircea_popescu: except it's not "i can't decide what to do", it's "i've decided that being a fluffer's handmaiden is below my level. i'm not willing to kill myself over this apparent failure of the world to contain anything fit for me, but i'll shamble about aimlessly for a while maybe something sticks"
asciilifeform: #1 major at umd !11 ( i shit thee not )
mircea_popescu: as that dude selling out in 1929 pointed out -- there are people you really do not wish to commune with. by the time shoeblacks are buying stocks, stocks are for shoeblacks.
asciilifeform: and - as always - after these come the 'free market!111 i'm sure to find a place, and Profit!111'
mircea_popescu: first the chicks with great tits show up, and make a party out of a desert. then the chicks with ugly tits hear about the nice tit hangout and go there to try and sprinkle some nice on their sad bosoms.
asciilifeform: ( tended to be people with 'something to trade', contents of their heads )
asciilifeform: one obvious observation is that the caliber of the 1st wave folx was inevitably higher
asciilifeform: asciilifeform had the privilege of meeting various folx who moved in '70s-80s -- sounded as if entirely different planet
mircea_popescu: i've had the priviledge.
asciilifeform: show me the 60y.o. who 'test me!1111'
asciilifeform: and when emigrating, follow same logic as ants when 'emigrating' to my kitchen : 'hey, PILES OF SUGAR!!!' rather than 'i'd like to be Tested!'
mircea_popescu: life's too short to be talking to the rocks.
mircea_popescu: well then, so they'll be sitting in whatever pen and fuck them, they get no name and no voice.
asciilifeform: most folx ain't, and know they ain't
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, it's not clear. being elite is the point. people generallty don't want to find out iuf they are or they aren't, and it slows down with age.
mircea_popescu: kinda the whole point of "maga".
mircea_popescu: only place where someone will pay good money to you know, have somebody operate on him in the back of a truck.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually us has the largest black medical services market of any place with pretense of civilisation i ever saw. and ALWAYUS DID
mircea_popescu: and underutilized elite "i'm a nigger stomper, but '''we just don't do that in my country'''"will find their actual useful levbel.
phf: obviously "i was a surgeon back in my country!1" doesn't ever translate, but ~surgeons~ will easily find their place amongst other countries surgeons
mircea_popescu: there is no such "type".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no elite that attaches to "the attaining of full professorship". this is the problem here, the statal parasitizing of the notion of elite.
mircea_popescu: what there isn't, are any slots for the aspie 14% to wannabe-elite on the basis of other people's processes, goods and etc.
mircea_popescu: there's an infinite number of elite slots.
mircea_popescu: this is an iffier point. i didn't meet that many altogether. moreover, i didn't discount the "friend of a friend" stories out of hand.
phf: me and asciilifeform have respective selection biases. i don't know any russian professor cab drivers, but plenty of NIH department heads, doing their half science half politikin on the new territory. presumably there's also a world of russian escapees who are driving cabs, that i'm just not connected to
mircea_popescu: twas supposed to impress the sheiks, 99% of all it was good for. as you can see the problem remains even today, in exactly same terms.
mircea_popescu: it was ~same as short fat dude in 2nd hs year will pay strippers to come hang out with him in the cafeteria.
asciilifeform: usg offered 'untermenschen' all kinds of lures, while they had (what was perceived as) secrets to trade -- honourary colonelships, professorships, etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the functioning of soviet economy was not in any sense different. they'd just steal inventions outright, w/e.
mircea_popescu: what target countries value ideologically is uninteresting. but what they value on the sane basis of valuation, can't be ignored. so if you mix "the french really liked ukr chicks" in there we'll have to distinguish what does "the french" mean, ie, what portion they like because them bitches can suck a golf ball through a garden hose and what portion because they read in paris match that they should.
phf: i don't know any properly soviet bureaucrats who are not also licking ass the same way they were doing it in soviet union, for peanuts. people that i'm talking about escaped, or left in the early 90s, and didn't have any problems going from one closed research institute soviet side to an equivalent u.s. side.
asciilifeform: the 'college' racket is no sort of 'investment in elite' , in usgdom, rather it is a mechanism for assigning ~everyone a debt of $maxint de jure so that their moneys can be harvested at will later, should they happen to come across any
mircea_popescu: phf we are judging elite on the strength of action rather than ideology. properly-fat-female is elite because can fuck. properly-soviet-bureaucrat is not elite because can not do jack shit.
phf: people who ~escaped~ from oboronka, back when it still meant something in the early 80s, say, were granted a perceived elite status in u.s. i don't know anyone with that connection who's sweeping floors at mcgrooders, but plently of "NII engineers"
asciilifeform: if you produce 25mil of somebody per yr, that this is definitionally not any sort of elite. hence 0 attempt to seriously skin 'college grads' for their debt ( good fraction of which already condemned to life term of 'starbucks barista' )
phf: well, but these people aren't escaping into tmsr/pashtun. are we judging elite from our perspective, or what their respective target countries considered elite?
mircea_popescu: but usistani "best anthropologist of his generation" is no kind of elite. only elite there is kardashian, because ass.
mircea_popescu: this is the sad result of following dumbass ideology (ie, socialism) past its halfway point -- you become -value, notwithstanding in saner context you'd have been +value and thereby some kind of elite.
phf: fwiw, the reason it's friend of a friend, is because su was good at compartmentalization. my grandparents didn't talk about ~anything~ at all at home (and still warned my mom to never talk about anything she hears at home) until after the collapse
mircea_popescu: phf the point you're not seeing because it's so unexpected and i didn't make it specifically was that the definition of elite scales with society. elite is "who has objective value". in late soviet, much like in late usg reich, the strippers were the elite
phf: mircea_popescu: i thought "elites" were under the discussion, but yeah, we went in the direction of females
asciilifeform: i.e. was put there at great expense of orc exchequer
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: per the su pov, the stuff inside the head of, e.g., serious physicist, is 'actual goods'
mircea_popescu: now portion of this is also defensive, and should be separated. some dudes leaving left with actual goods. some might have and the soviet accountancy was slightly worse than us, they couldn't quite figure it exactly.
phf: asciilifeform: family conversations in the 90s, and this is the case of "elites" leaving. grandfather at some point was under investigation, because someone in his department defected, but immediate colleagues sacked, wife arrested and imprisoned. this is oboronka though
mircea_popescu: re later, nobody fucking bothered to pay room and board for some idle schmuck that was too dumb to leave himself in the first place. re former, of fucking course they kept pretending to importance for a day or two, it's what statal socialism is built out of : the organised pretense to importance.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's the canonical borderline sleeve transactional outpour, "i cant/couldnt" (age dependent) "study/work/move/whatever because son/husband/father/baby jesus on stick needed me not to".
phf: asciilifeform: that's not true, re no arrests, and there's a lot of creative variations on "sacked from sugary professorships"
asciilifeform: recall the treblinka thread ?
mircea_popescu: the whole "expectation" thread linked recently is amusingly on point.
mircea_popescu: not "fuck relatives", though that's what dumb female would pretend was said ; not "this doesn't happen", though that's what castrated "allies" might pretend was said. simply "the responsibility for living in jail attaches to each individual liver individually. old relative should have fucking known better than to be there, and shouldn't expect other-people to put out his clothes just because he likes sitting down on the going
mircea_popescu: in a sense that "mutual responsibility" is never a genuine concern, but out and out fraternizing with the enemy.
phf: in a sense that fuck relatives, or in a sense that arrest of the escapee relatives was not a thing?
mircea_popescu: phf the specific phrasing of protective female bullshit (PFB) is studied in a different discipline, but sure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't comment on ro emigres, but with su world there was a lulzy twist : 1st wave (1970s -- largely j000z!11) wrote home, 'i'ma full professor and it rocks, come on over', 2nd wave went, to discover that market -- glut, and hello cab
mircea_popescu: the fact that elites failed to defect is a very sad testament on the structurally broken in the head nature of postmodern elites. something we know as jwz-ism today, but has preexisted jwz.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 15:01 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667079 << i'd like to visit the parallel universe this was posted from. in mine, the sov folx happily moved to 'civilized west', where to enjoy driving cabs ( rather than, say, the valhalla depicted in the bootleg vhs tapes )
asciilifeform: ^ which made me wonder, how come the missionaries never go to riyadh
asciilifeform: 'bbbut i know a d00d who couldn't get out' 'did he go to north kr ?' 'yes...' 'was he a baptist missionary...' 'yes...' 'which is a jailable offense there..' 'DISGUSTING untermenschen!!!howdarethey'
phf: americans have been trained on the whole iron curtain vs the free world narrative. so now any place that's politically disagreeable is seen as potentially behind iron curtain
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 03:56 mircea_popescu: you know ? dumbass soviets were like this, and then once the 80s were over and shitholistan moved to arab world, they were like that in the 90s.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667079 << i'd like to visit the parallel universe this was posted from. in mine, the sov folx happily moved to 'civilized west', where to enjoy driving cabs ( rather than, say, the valhalla depicted in the bootleg vhs tapes )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 03:42 ben_vulpes: heh, friends have been whining, "what if you can't come back!!!1" without ever once considering the corrolary "what if you can't get out?"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667051 << the historic record of such surprises is more or less 100% 'can't get out' vs ~0 'can't get in'
asciilifeform: astonishing, how the militantly retarded can make what seems like simple problem -- to get raw bytes in/out of a comp -- into a near-impossibility