mircea_popescu: but anyway -- if he modified them himself he gets to either convincingly fix it or else be replaced. just like anything else.
mircea_popescu: exactly opposite of the imperial certificate bullshit, which is 100% george costanza going "it's true i did nothing all week, but bear in mind i am in the smaller office". ie, "can you doctor ?" "no, not rly... but i do have a doctoring CERTIFICATE"
mircea_popescu: the fundamental flaw in your earlier mental process, which is periodically discussed in the logs, is that you try to take trust as an objective. trust isn't an objective, the reason i trust you is because I TRUST YOU, not because deedbot says i do. and the ONLY use of the knowledge that i trust you is that you can ask me about you. nothing else.
sina: mircea_popescu: can you walk me through the hypothetical example case where you have woken up one morning and decided for some valid reason (e.g. deedbot WoT contents no longer match your local copy) that deedbot is no longer trustworthy but urgently want to enter a rating for me of -10 into the public record?
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the problem with cardboard is keeping it painted
mircea_popescu: much like "wouldn't it be cool to make cars out of cardboard, they'd be easier to paint that way" misses the whole car thing
sina: reading now, so you think the idea contravenes those principles?
sina: is that the deedbot.org/help.html page?
sina: not arguing this should be done, only relating the source of my thoughts which lead to the questions
sina: the basis I guess is, substituing the trustworthiness of a single bot with a cryptographic chain, being able to run your own "full node" of the WoT, which gives access to secondary/tertiary networks to participate via a gateway, etc
mircea_popescu: yes, but for the things in your head to be called thinking, they must proceed form a basis. what is here the basis ?
sina: the reason I ask is because last night I was thinking of a more coin style WoT, where everyone runs a node, there is an immutable shared log of ratings
mircea_popescu: now, the formalism for recording that rating currently in overwhelming use is !!rate. there is no rule that thios must be so. it is currently so for convenience, and because deedbot is trustworthy. either of these can change, but this would affect little : the party who trusts you can enter that trust into the public record through whatever command
mircea_popescu: to enter the web, you have to have a rating.
sina: (deedbot being the root)
sina: um...as in, the logical topology of the WoT is a ...web... but to join the web you enter via a tree structure where the root is master, and all other nodes are slaves
sina: so (and maybe I am missing the point), you can't really "run your own node"
sina: and I noticed you can ask it for an S-expression of the entire WoT, that's cool
sina: so is deedbot the canonical WoT source?
sina: I dunno, I feel like it's a bit in the vein of "winblows"
mircea_popescu: i mean, "i dunno what's with todd these days, he keeps fucking all these latrinas"...
sina: haha yeah, here "down under" is literally burned into the subconcious to mean "Australia" so we don't grok the phrase the same way
sina: mircea_popescu: haha do I dare ask the meaning of "anal day"?
mircea_popescu: yeah, eventually, but not quite there yet.
BingoBoingo: Retailer dressed as a "dealer" has either offer a carriage or a lawnmower convincingly dressed as a carriage.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The thing is you buy one car every 12 years for light volcano to beach transit. That doesn't make an industry, so to solve this retailer has to borrow from mass market lawnmowers to offer a carriage to mircea_popescu that might avoid smiting
BingoBoingo: But yes, lawnmowers are the future. Time for BMW to start offering 3 point hitches so can tow rough cut mower
BingoBoingo: And japs now rent "how we make car-baby" process to brands clinging to other flags
mircea_popescu: wtf is with all the lawnmowers anyway. took bmw over to "european motors" shop, everything in the fucking yard was shitty azn makes.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/06/11/out-with-saddam-in-with-usain-or-blackzilla-unchained-or-the-1000-car-project-ou-lobjet-epeurant-or-breadwinners-delight-or-possibly-some-other-title-but-mostly-pete-bought-yet-another-c/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Out with Saddam, in with Usain. Or Blackzilla unchained. Or the $1000* car project. Ou l’objet épeurant. Or breadwinner’s delight. Or possibly some other title but mostly “Pete bought
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2017/05/still-no-consensus-supporting-bitcoin-hardfork-barry-silbert-pretends-otherwise-to-his-peril/ << Anyway Shillybum's websit 2.0 was already Qntricated
BingoBoingo: Just remember, there's a spooky skeleton inside you
mircea_popescu: didn't work in 2012, back when the whole bitcoin market cap was < mp's net worth. it's going to work five years later, with 50 bn btc ? because why, everyone's kakobrekla and wealth makes them too stupid to survive ?
mircea_popescu: it'll never end, this constant stream of improved improvements, until they're literally fucking buried, the muppets, will it.
mircea_popescu: in other such lulz, apparently egbert-shillbert-shitforbrains w/e his name is now enthusiastically supports something caled segweb 2.0 ?
trinque: and of course, it appears the thing was received as "omg what is this anthology of dead european men" and "this math is too hard! unfair!"
trinque: couple of strikingly self aware lines in there, along the lines of "if it is impossible to educate every man with the great books of the west, aristotle was right and the mass of humanity are unfit for anything but slavery"
trinque: pretty decent bundle of classics and so on, but the first volume in the thing presents, of course, a feverish pitch for "(presumably free) liberal education for all"
mircea_popescu: well you're crap outta luck then. sorry for your flush.
trinque: being a cryptocoins expert, I chose crap. shit is against the community guidelines.
BingoBoingo: shart.ethereum.wet introduces still moar complications
mircea_popescu: THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU ANSWER!!! THE QUESTION MAKES A DIFFERENCE!
sina: trinque: there is a DApp for that
trinque: aw shit, I just put all my life savings into ethereum.
mircea_popescu: i read it in the new york times.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, do you know why rabbits sleep with their eyes open ?
sina: massive lul, hide the gun in a red box
sina: As the couple sat in the back seat of the car, Mr. Denisultanov-Kurmakayev said, “‘Now, here is your gift,’” Ms. Okuyeva said. He opened the box, pulled out a gun and opened fire on Mr. Osmayev.
sina: As they drove, Mr. Denisultanov-Kurmakayev asked the pair to stop the car for an interview and to sit in the back to receive the gift, which he carried in a festive red cardboard box.
sina: its NYT so Putin will be mentioned in everything, but Ukranian intel says they have no firm evidence it was the Ruskis (in the article)...of course it probably was but that's not the bit of the story that's interesting
sina: the lady is a badass and has a gun/blod clotting agent, shoots the assassin 4 times after he shoots her husband
sina: Chechen assassin poses as Le Monde reporter to try and kill them
sina: a ukranian lady and her husband are minor celebs for fighting against the russians in donetsk or wherever, Ukranian press loves em
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/the-best-thing-you-can-do-for-your-career-is-to-take-a-stay-at-home-wife << CH - The best thing you can do for your career is to take a stay-at-home wife
mircea_popescu: cuz they dominate muzak amirite ? lord's of tin alley ?
mircea_popescu: you've not seen something like this, 100% 20something dudes in shorts and tshirts looking like bitches in heat won'\t fuck them.
mod6: cherries sounds good. is there an abundance of fruit yielding cherry trees near you?
shinohai: Maybe so ... I am quite sure the EFF lawsuit mentioned within is recent. The date seems to agree.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Oh, there are no figs here.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: only other one we have is figs
BingoBoingo: OMG elitist! What about all the not cherry fruits like nectarines and peaches!
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-strange-case-of-the-red-stapler-and-other-related-stories/ << Trilema - The Strange Case of The Red Stapler and Other Related Stories
BingoBoingo: Kinda like how US jooz will become people of color when Petrus gets resentful and father's their daughter's children
BingoBoingo: Still, I would like to see the ranking if "complications of being a fat fuck" were consolidated and entered on list. Overdose would likely still win under 25 list, but age where "fat fuck" begins to beat overdose inspires curiosity.
mircea_popescu: fuck 'em, let the beautiful ratpeople choke in their own vomit, the sooner the empire ends the better.
BingoBoingo: Here in Illinois they inestigate to prosecute as murder by dealer, much progress
mircea_popescu: a while back they started trying to prosecute all overdose deaths as manslaughter-by-dealer. getting desperate, obviously.
BingoBoingo: You put Jew that passed for white last year on PetrusofColor radar, and Petrus is going to remember because it's what Petrus does instead of being the dogman
mircea_popescu: there ios that
mircea_popescu: on the level of mooks.
BingoBoingo: Well, matter in the sense of being environmental hazards.
mircea_popescu: it's still not altogether clear tyrone & petrus actually matter in this complex social game.
BingoBoingo: ^ In other hates
BingoBoingo: I don't think they'll pass. Not to Tyrone and Petrus/
mircea_popescu: what ? that they spent a few centuries passing for white while white ruled the world but now that white got some indescript malaise they'll pass for "something else" ie "of color" ?
BingoBoingo: But still the irony.
mircea_popescu: the euro jews = proper jews = ded.
mircea_popescu: fuck them.
sina notes to search the logs for koch tomorrow
sina: yes I believe so. it'd be interesting to run them against, for example, important gpg functions or similar
sina: its a bounded model checker for C, you can use it to verify the correctness of whole programs but since it is a bit slow/brute force approach, normally you only can use it to test critical functions
sina: something I have been looking into as well, kind of related in the testing-for-weakness-to-validate-sanity sense, is this program "cbmc"
mircea_popescu: which, for the people who were here for the original pgp wars, sounds like the empire never goes to school.
mircea_popescu: mirrors neatly how all sorts of dorks have been trying to create exactly the same, "just as good as bitcoin with just a bit of censorship" sort of bs.
sina: I just went down the rabbit hole of links from that one
mircea_popescu: starting with http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you
mircea_popescu: the empire's desire to eat it up is palpable.
mircea_popescu: there's this cloud of "academia" retards who have been pointedly ignoring / not citing it while publishing useless crap on the general topic.
mircea_popescu: well, in the particular case of phuctor, he has a solid point.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 15:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667584 << it is not, and ain't going to be, i'm not especially interested in helping folx to 'embrace and extinguish' it. as far as i'm concerned, 100% of the output is verifiable with the bignum calculator of your choice (e.g. 'bc') and it is no concern of anybody's how it was obtained.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 08:46 sina: do you know if the src for phuctor is avail?
mircea_popescu: i recall them trotting him out periodically, "rich man! made by ourdemocracy! you could be next!!1" sorta bs.
mircea_popescu: its rather impossible.
mircea_popescu: there was a younger, more naive time when we seriously wanted someone to condense the logs
sina: no here. gossipd, libsodium/nacl, trump...a few other things I searched
mircea_popescu: there you mean ?
sina: are most players drawn from the general vicinity of this and related chans? or internet randoms too?
sina: "The Age of Spin" it was called.
sina: thank the lord for gpg/rdiff/duplicity and cheap USB keys
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 12:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-10#1668368 <<< what, some dood struggling for shared basis / an understanding of the world around him. most of the time it involves some flailing about.
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-10#1668370 <<< mircea_popescu I couldn't help but laugh at someone who is saying everyone should fork ricochet.im and work on it instead, or use OTR or whatever then blurt out that some just-barely-specified software isn't resistant to SIGINT attacks on your keyboard
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-10#1668368 <<< what, some dood struggling for shared basis / an understanding of the world around him. most of the time it involves some flailing about.
a111: Logged on 2016-02-08 00:11 maqp: There is no way your system can defeat targeted SIGINT monitoring attack, where government drives within a few hundred meters and collects signals emitted by your keyboard cable.
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated sina 1 at 2017/06/03 05:09:48 << missed on all the things!
mircea_popescu: <pre>. excewpt i think it strips them if you do it, asec
sina: fantastic, tell me how you did it and I'll do the golang one
sina: it's pretty much native, and depending on how you write the program it doesn't really need GC
sina: and I'm not even on the latest ver
sina: golang is pretty fast these days
sina: I tried to make a C one but then I remembered I haven't touched anything with pointers in about 15 years
sina: I'll repost with pre and you can delete the old one
sina: mircea_popescu: I pasted the python impl and it mangled my tabbing...I guess I wouldn't care normally but it's going ot be annoying for people to paste that and re-indent, any feature about preserving tabbing in your comment section?
mircea_popescu: ha. didja read the topic ?
sina: mircea_popescu: is there any interest in a tmsr company offering stuff like git hosting etc?
sina: "on the article" ?
mircea_popescu: do me a favour sina ; and ben_vulpes : post a copy of your code on the article. archival.
mircea_popescu: so there's a python, a golang and a cl version nao ?
ben_vulpes: i only saw it one other time to night (6 of 'em), and i don't remember before
ben_vulpes: some seven hundred odd seconds to hash the declaration
ben_vulpes: oh man i get to break out the profiler!
ben_vulpes: probably including tea-sipping and not watching the debugger
ben_vulpes: that's when you fired the declaration of sovereignty
mircea_popescu: deedbot contains. or thebitcoin.foundation also.
ben_vulpes: I WANT TO DO THE GPL THING LEAVE ME LONE
ben_vulpes: or we could start with bitfields and you could reverse them?
ben_vulpes: i put a tool out there for you to use, use it
sina: or, you know, you could just copy the one line of python required to convert
sina: if I pick a string I'll include the bitfield for lazy ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: do 1 2 4 8 16 etc kb all the way to a mb or so,
mircea_popescu: that's the next step once we got a coupla canonical impls, is to burn it down.
ben_vulpes: sina: eeyyyyy that's the joke i'm making
sina: I missed all the tings
ben_vulpes: you missed the strings thread, didntcha
sina: ben_vulpes: how fast can you run it against the GPL in my repo?
sina: watching this slow ass shit in python is making me want to start rewriting in C right now even though I have done nothing for the last ~24 except write this code, eat pizza and 8h of sleep
ben_vulpes: i mean yes, all the time. but what in particular today?
sina: assuming it's a correct implementation of the spec anyway
sina: lol...the 2048 bit hash for GPLv2 was taking a really long time so I killed it to add some print statements. Checked "wc -c LICENSE", it reports ~18,000 chars. I re-ran mpfhf with 32 bits, thinking it'd finish at M_pos ~18,000
mircea_popescu: i'd expect the latter
ben_vulpes: my next q is does the iteration run [0, count] or [0, count)
sina: so the step == M_pos
sina: there is no rewind, right?
ben_vulpes: well in the absence of ideas, shall we index from zero?
ben_vulpes: screws will always have an initial element of zero otherwise
mircea_popescu: ah the god damned zeroth bit nonsense.
sina: yes but your reading of the footnote does seem correct, it starts at 1
ben_vulpes: i'm trying to remember why i indexed at 1 there
sina: I only mean in the sense, glaring errors or differences that cause disagreement between implementations, should be obvious
ben_vulpes: the length of your implementation does not particularly bear
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and i worked this example at one point, i'm pretty sure the expected value of 011 is correct
sina: ben_vulpes: also per above my halfscrew won't take any action if the len(a) is 1, can you confirm cl behaviour?
sina: I dunno, I keep deleting the debug statements
sina: mircea_popescu: can you confirm/clarify "his operation consists of taking the bit count of either S or R, iterating over that value, at each step multiplying the iterator with the current position in M" ...
sina: mircea_popescu: there was a bug in my screw method which caused the cycle, once I identified it, it stopped cycling
mircea_popescu: i don't readily see a problem with the story as displayed.
PeterL: just something to think of for future versions of the hash
mircea_popescu: though in principle the mpfhf is a function fambly -- anyone can make any sort of thing he wants
mircea_popescu: PeterL the problem is that even as is the complexity is pretty hard to manage. making more complex primitives is not going to help this
sina: I keep taking the debug lines out because it's fucking impossible to follow the logic of the code with them in
PeterL: I had an idea for another function to use in the fabulous hash: a conditional screw - where on step n, for i in length S, if S[i] then flip R[n*i mod len(R)]
sina: mircea_popescu: earlier you said half screw should round down. In that case, if len is 1 the halfscrew will be 0. so should no iterations be peformed on halfscrew where the len is 1?
sina: the log msgs make it much harder to follow the code unfortunately, my code has the same issue :(
ben_vulpes: in the interim sina do feel free to read what i've written and generate data to compare yours against
ben_vulpes: i do actually enjoy the humans i keep in my house, amazing though that may seem
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i shall now withdraw into my cellar with the instruments.
ben_vulpes: check it still implements the spec?
mircea_popescu: you prolly still have a bug in there though, just no longer on this case.
mircea_popescu: if 1, half-screw S in R. If the bit in R found at the position equal to the remainder of the division of our position in M by the size of R is equal to the bit in S found at the position equal to the remainder of the division of our position in M by the size of S
mircea_popescu: you mean to tell me the idempotent value for mpfhf is actually ff ?
mircea_popescu: Our work has ended, in 4 steps and using 1 bits for the state machine. The message was #*1111 and the resulting hash is #*1111
mircea_popescu: i don't readily see there's a problem with it.
mircea_popescu: skipping ahead, Our work has ended, in 141 steps and using 96 bits for the state machine. The message was #*1001101101000010000011010111101001110001111010111110011100000110000111100111110011100001 and the resulting hash is #*0010011100
mircea_popescu: element is now #*1010000000 << ok, seems to make sense up to there.
mircea_popescu: screwing #*0000000000 at position 0 with count 0 << the problem. it is not possible for a bit count to be 0.
ben_vulpes: the pooch maybe
ben_vulpes: logs are not exactly the same, bridging will be required until i match the hashonator's log format
sina: so, do we rewind, and then still increment?
sina: mircea_popescu: per the spec, " During each step, the function considers whether the position-th bit in M is 0 or 1, and executes a defined set of operations in either case. Once the operations have been executed, the position is incremented by one."
mircea_popescu: That bit in R is flipped and we rewind. << the definition of the op makes cycles impossibru as such
sina: mircea_popescu: pls help me understand rewind? doesn't it guarantee loops if I end up in a step which has a rewind? because I will go back one and then rewind?
mircea_popescu: so there's ~1.25 * lenM ish steps
mircea_popescu: there's a rewind op
sina: mircea_popescu: can you point if I'm missing something obvious? From my understanding of the spec, the number of "steps" is = the length of M, but in your examples (understanding they're of a nonworking prototype) have a lot more steps than len(M)
sina: fuckers, ok I will add the debug back
mircea_popescu: sina can you make it print out some detailed workout like the original prototype did ?
sina: how the fuck am I know my code works
sina: lel ok that is not the output that I got :(
candi_lustt: sina: 290 steps, 249 bits for the state machine. hash: #*1000100011110010000101100110011011011001111000011110110011111001
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/the-bitcoin-learning-tournament/#comment-122209 >> this ring any bells to anyone ?
sina: ah good, python by default adopts the C behaviour
sina: mircea_popescu: can I ask you to verify behaviour of half screw when the length of S or R is not even?
mircea_popescu: cool. seeing how ben_vulpes ' lisp implementation ain't working yet, you have a shot at becoming the first cannonical mpfhf
sina: that's the second time in 24h you've said that :P
mircea_popescu: "works in the sense that it does something, not in the sense it does what it should"
mircea_popescu: the prototype was originally more of a "omfg show me what the fuck do you mean with this spec ?!?!?!" sort of easement.
sina: kk, so how come in "step 1" of the prototype, you're modifying S in the halfscrew, rather than R, because the spec says "if bit is 1, half screw S in R"?
sina: can you confirm my intepretation of the spec for mpfhf is correct or not?
pete_dushenski: "The extension uses a bit.ly URL to reach its C&C, but the URL path is nowhere to be found in the extension code. In fact, it will obtain this path by using comments posted on a specific Instagram post. The one that was used in the analyzed sample was a comment about a photo posted to the Britney Spears official Instagram account."
pete_dushenski: in other instapwns, https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/06/06/turlas-watering-hole-campaign-updated-firefox-extension-abusing-instagram/
ben_vulpes: how many games of poker they win, how up they are on slots over their slot playing career...
ben_vulpes: i very rarely bother to ask if people actually eg beat the market, convert back to btc, move that btc off the exchange...
mircea_popescu: "o btw, did they MAKE a ton of money, or did they just IMAGINE they MIGHT AS WELL HAD on the basis of stuff they read on a website ?"
mircea_popescu: "the right one"
ben_vulpes: "hey what do you think about ethereum? a couple of guys i know bought some and made a ton of money?" "which ethereum?" "..."
mircea_popescu: the internet is so empowering for herbipeople!
mircea_popescu: no fucking end to the cheekty
mircea_popescu: fucktards, that';s another thing. everyone's got teh leadersheep hallucinations also.
ben_vulpes: texas a&i and southern methodist, apparently
ben_vulpes: other loldanas: http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/16/ice-director-gives-shocking-excuse-for-failure-to-detain-killer-illegal-alien-video/
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i see 2 lines of the needed 'image fix and a bunch of ??? << so two other things. 1) 'M
mircea_popescu: "go out in the community" of imbecile politruks and aparatchicks that actually created the fucking problem in the first place. noty, stop stroking each other's imaginary importance.
mircea_popescu: "this is BULLSHIT!!!1 how dare the sofa stack end!!!"
mircea_popescu: and THEN complains that the idle muppets hired "to hob knob with congressmen and clog up wash dc traffic while pretending to be you know, lobbysts lite on govt payroll" dun get to keep on pretending, gotta actually work the SAME DAMNED CALL CENTER they tried to escape from manning in panama.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 16:11 shinohai: Yet another Obama programme overturned: http://archive.is/uvw7P
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667732 << loller at the butthurt. "sarah" saldana, who most likely is random illegal who went to maryland to study "crime fightin'", and in any case was a political appointee by the worlds shittiest set of politruks, complains that her minions inherited by trump are used... for a political goal. FUCKING pantsuits, it's only pissing if you do it, they don't do it, wut???.
mircea_popescu: and ftr that is SPECIFICALLY the cow/herbivore strategy. "oh, there's some lovely grass down here. grass is good because +epsilon ev, will make me fat, ill have babies, moo"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's an illustration of typical 'free agent' tho -- i.e. imbecile interested in 'free coke' rather than any coherent action with >1hr horizon. i.e. beast of the field.
mircea_popescu: "let's stash dubious chinese imports in the us as a wealth amassing scheme, wut could possibly go wrong!"
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 16:08 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/i1Usl << from same fishwrap >> 'Two members of the US Army National Guard have been convicted of running a credit card fraud scheme involving bitcoin... using bitcoins to purchase stolen credit and debit card numbers... using magnetic strip re-encoding tools to apply stolen numbers to dummy cards, after which they would buy merchandise from Army and Air Force Exchange Service stores at US military bases, as well a
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-09#1667724 << see, typical imbecile imperial, going THE WROING FUCKING WAY.