mod6: my goal is to get gnat setup on gentoo, but the main problem is there, you have to hand-roll the entire thing because the gnat package for gentoo requires gcc6
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 possibly not aptgetting a binary but instead building source may fix it for you ? << yeah, this is always a bad idea. only reason i did it, was to get an ada env stood up quickly. i had a super weird problem on the first environment that I tried on. the gnat version didn't match the gcc version and was getting like non-determinstic errors.
mod6: im not sure what it doesn't like about 142, 146 -- they look like a lot of otherlines in ffa. so not sure what it thinks isn't kosher.
mod6: np, thank you for the help!
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: plz repaste your barf << ok, shall I rerun your make, included with the fact.tar.gz ?
mod6: this is all the stuff that is installed (i think) via apt for gnat: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mZRtO/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: that doesn't sound very much like it then huh.
asciilifeform: mod6: plz post the tarballs that your gnat was made from
mod6: My thinking is that, if i need to be able to use all the switches ad denoted in your makefile (since my mine doesn't seem to allow for that), I may need the adacore configuration.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: not the problem. my thing builds on both adacore's and trad gnu gnat. << yeah not sure what the problem is. it's a binary installation of gnat via apt-get, so that, i'm sure is part of the issue. however, it works better than the first ada configuration that I had, which, didn't work at all.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure this was the first non-automated attempt to "take over trilema!!!" since http://trilema.com/2012/the-storm-that-was-fel/#comment-90298
asciilifeform: and fuck knows how many at night, i dun even always bother to catalogue
asciilifeform: live, on the phuctor term
asciilifeform: i see 3-4 of these every day
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i expect the -- is supposed to do something or the other to mysql. the rest is just a selection of terminators.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 14:43 mircea_popescu: sn0wmonster you're not here to learn. you're here to try and bludgeon the world into a shape your head may fit. this is the opposite of learning. learning is when you change.
mircea_popescu: anyway. dorks trying to interact with the world on their own terms, as if they were somehow human by plain working of nature. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672444 in various coats of paint.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-16#1685111 << obviously the purpose of the "asking" is the stroking of the implicit assumptions of equality baked in. the question isn't "what is this ?" but rather "hey, i know i'm a guy 100% interchangeable with any/all of youze, right, i can even pm mp if i feel like it, so say something to signify your agreement, whatever it is, when i ask you hey guys what is this ?"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-16#1685108 << a yeah, whatever happened to the exciting kid a few days back.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-16#1685096 << practically speaking, "this" as in #trilema would be c-span for the senate of a "terrorist organisation". best guess.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-16 20:31 asciilifeform: and no joak either -- if it drowns in the noise, there is no signal.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the blessings of reals ;/ your value's right.
asciilifeform: but yes ideally somebody other than asciilifeform will stand up to do the chore of showing that thing is indeed endian-neutral ( which, unlike afaik every other bignumtron , it in fact is )
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mod6: not the problem. my thing builds on both adacore's and trad gnu gnat.
phf: "why would we use it to scan what you're asking us to scan, if we can just go and get the original, lulz"
asciilifeform: phf: now if only it weren't one of the world's largest golden toilets.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> nah everybody knows, first lynching, then barnraising << AHA, barn commemorates honored tree!
mod6: perhaps if i can get that working, then I can use the -cflags -O2 thing alright without issues.
asciilifeform: nah everybody knows, first lynching, then barnraising
phf: it's a barn raising! you in? and then we'll have us a good ol' lynching!
asciilifeform: i often wonder, when this question is asked, what the asker expects the answer to look like.
phf: whatisthis: trilema is some guy's personal blog. it kind of should be obvious from the format of things. typically when one discovers something, one should spend some time circling it, this way and that, trying to figure out its nature. you will gain very little by coming on "hey guyz! whacha doing here!!"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: already suggested to d00d, to read the subj line.
BingoBoingo: Then, maybe http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/
asciilifeform: gnumake is sensitive to whitespace, it is how the idiots made it. and doesn't cleanly eat winblowz line endings, which unfailingly appear whenever www liquishit is in the loop.
asciilifeform: xxd dump of curling the paste back, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/WOzLL/?raw=true >> many many winblowzified line endings, but seemingly intact tabs
a111: Logged on 2017-07-16 06:02 mircea_popescu: pretty sure it simply drops non-ascii chars silently. which is the right thing at that.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-16#1684964 << there are no non-ascii chars in my input. i ran a test, of the makefile in the tarball, and ended up with http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Au741/?raw=true
whatisthis: im reading the trilema site. and I don't really understand what's going on. But I'm terribly intrigued to continue reading it
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: looks like yet another 'strong and silent type'
asciilifeform: yeah unsurprise, considering that all but a handful of the muls are singleword
phf: parse-integer actually took significantly longer than factorial (i'm trying to figure out how to get a millisecond timer out of sbcl to wrap factorial to answer your question, but i don't think there's anything native)
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 13:00 asciilifeform: btw if you're actually doing something that doesn't need constanttime, you can simply put the obvious check-for-zero in the karatsuba and get 2-9000x boost for mul.
asciilifeform: and incidentally in case anyone reading this is not really awake, the method of calculating factorial shown in the ada proggy is brainmeltingly dumb. you really want a tree, most of it is smallint mult
asciilifeform: i have done this continuously ever since mod6 unearthed the sharp edge with 'Image operator
asciilifeform: ( ftr i tested it on both of the two major species of gnat )
a111: Logged on 2017-07-16 19:49 BingoBoingo was a bit disappointed, this was merely traditional church building kept as warehouse. Was expecting USian phenomenon where new construction church is actually build in the manner of a warehouse. Corrugated steel and all.
asciilifeform: the output lives now at http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/fact_out.txt , if someone knows what 65536! ought to equal -- compare and say.
asciilifeform: width, as readers of the proggy recall, is 1024000-bit.
asciilifeform: the sha512 of the output of the program, on all 3 machines, is 2540ed1fa8d4eb82916417df9136b79657c27cfc9c590d0b43fa14a03c7b2831f0371a598bd8040d7ba1ed0a6c1fd0cd87287d477388f2a2ed962f3f5601f366.
asciilifeform: in other noose, achtung mod6 et al:
BingoBoingo was a bit disappointed, this was merely traditional church building kept as warehouse. Was expecting USian phenomenon where new construction church is actually build in the manner of a warehouse. Corrugated steel and all.
mircea_popescu: and in random vintage trilema, http://trilema.com/2013/you-probably-have-no-idea-how-funny-the-law-is/
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/assorted-diversities-or-how-we-went-looking-for-a-brothel-and-all-we-found-was-a-warehouse-church/ << Trilema - Assorted diversities, or how we went looking for a brothel and all we found was a warehouse church.
mircea_popescu: instead of that sad fate, pile them into monthl;y tarballs, deed the previous month's tarball each time a new month starts and lo! major piece of infrastructure.
mircea_popescu: good thing we saved it then! (tm)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger imagine you know, five years from now the situation repeats. except then there's no tardstalk anymore. but it's ok, we have the archive link. o look, it's just a dangling link.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 16:53 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683501 >> that is the link in question, yes. it's be tremendously useful if it also had a copy of http://archive.is/download/nQLP9.zip stored somewhere.
Framedragger: http://archive.is/download/nQLP9.zip << do you mean a copy of this file *from earlier*, or (only) to have a general mechanism for downloading these archive copies?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the faux buffet, http://68.media.tumblr.com/f2bceb97702aa6374118a870fafe0bc1/tumblr_oi6f6tt2zr1stzc8to1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: there's no way he's fixcing that however, outside of making a whole new tmsr http
phf: so the utf-8 parser takes anything in the 0-127 range as is, so we definitely wouldn't have any "magic string" cases in the happy path (the unhappy path being that you can apparently specify file type and encoding when posting to an rfc2388 form, and the server can happily decide to transcode it in whatever way it pleases)
mircea_popescu: i tried for isntance feeding the original makefile in line by line with my comparer thing, but all the lines match.
mircea_popescu: i thought maybe it is the case that it takes a 2 or 3 byte item which starts with valid ascii and tries to interpret it as some sort of unicode bs and in the process ends up applying a transform to the text somehow. but unless we have the actual magic string, we're not finding this.
mircea_popescu: anyway, so far : it's not clear that it actually does anything untoward to ascii ; my tests as they were failed to find an example. we did discover it replaces nonascii chars with some random gunk, which yes should be changed but not really much of a point or anything
mircea_popescu: fwiw i never did manage to verify the saga was anything more than alf's extremely short fuse.
phf: but i figure i'll try pushing a binary file through (which wasn't the spec anyway, just wanted to see what actually happens)
mircea_popescu: possibly there's something else afot though, because that wouldn't have afected a makefile, ie the original problem is it.
mircea_popescu: phf yes but does it ever collate into an unicode character or anything of the sort ?
phf: so it shouldn't be loosing anything in 0-127 range, at least the foo file comes through clean. it is trying to parse the input as unicode (and i'm pretty sure it's the server doing it, because curl is sending it 8bit clean)
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm calling it good before i fill the guy;'s disk with random lines.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it simply drops non-ascii chars silently. which is the right thing at that.
trinque: phf's "foo" breaks it, though really, if the thing's an ascii paster, I dunno that the bug's anything but "fed uniturds, did not tell user to fuck off"
mircea_popescu: atm watching it scroll, however many 100s of lines in, they all match.
mircea_popescu very much recommends this test : pick random textfile, put it through the above code, see if you find a dismatching line.
mircea_popescu: anyway. now they match.
trinque: -n do not output the trailing newline
mircea_popescu: (i don't expect it does, because look in 2nd paste. the -=== bit is produced by echo.
trinque: just... does. and look, they gave ya a "echo -n" to undo it! choice
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would it do that.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile running without the shasums produces http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/iKMzq/?raw=true
trinque: seems it wasn't the tabs; those came back
asciilifeform: no winblowz line endings either ( from where..? )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform best i can tell, wotpaste simply drops nonascii chars. was something in the makefile not ascii ?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-16 03:22 trinque: seems sorta like there's a double encode happening.
BingoBoingo: In other comments http://qntra.net/2017/07/bitcoin-network-difficulty-spiked-13-53-this-week/#comment-105121
a111: Logged on 2017-07-16 02:00 mod6: asciilifeform: here's what I get when I grab the generic Makefile, and use your fact.tar.gz: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RaNYu/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: i'm very recently hamstrung in degrees of freedom by hardware failures, so i won't be terribly responsive for the immediate future. working on it tho.
ben_vulpes: thanks for the debugging input phf, mircea_popescu
sina: double encoding is the best and least confusing kind of encoding
trinque: seems sorta like there's a double encode happening.
phf: i say it right there! "cat foo | wotpaste"
mircea_popescu: put your test lines in the first file ; examine the results.txt file for the results.
phf: common lisp specification defines a memory safe language, yes, but in the crevices of "undefined behavior" you can have memory related exceptions. for example you can define a function with (safety 0) optimization declaration, which will neglect to check the type of a passed argument, which might (and often will) result in a memory exception.
mircea_popescu: phf it does, the actual stuff you're sending. i imagine you feed it to curl via something somewhere in the call yes ?
mircea_popescu: you have -w url-effective twice in there ftr.
phf: doesn't work, it posts, but the contents of the paste are e.g. http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ORZ0T/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: post the actual bash you're using ?
mircea_popescu: i get the expected.
phf: since i'm posting to a form though, it must be rfc 2388 compliant. afaiu posting raw binary data wouldn't work, because server needs to know which field the data is associated with
phf: yeah, wotpaste does the pasting, curl then pulls it back. i wonder if curl download negotiates it up to unicode
mircea_popescu: ah i thought it was the above quoted
mircea_popescu: otherwise html spec is to % binary posted in forms
mod6: im gonna try to see if I can resolve the issues. probably just my environment or whateve.r
mod6: asciilifeform: here's what I get when I grab the generic Makefile, and use your fact.tar.gz: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RaNYu/?raw=true
a111: Logged on 2017-07-16 01:40 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684813 << no it doesn't dood, stop flying off the handle, we had it tried nad tested in every which way and it was fine.
mod6: im probably condemmed to going through all the hoops to get gnat setup on gentoo. i just haven't ventured into it yes as it seems like a pretty timely, process.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684813 << no it doesn't dood, stop flying off the handle, we had it tried nad tested in every which way and it was fine.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 22:52 mod6: yah, gotta be the version of my make is different than yours, plus, i'm not using adacore's gnat
phf: asciilifeform: i don't think it's ben_vulpes's paster, it must be something in the pipeline
asciilifeform: mod6: if this does not build on your box, you gotta find out why, before attempting anything other adatronic experiments.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mod6: yah, gotta be the version of my make is different than yours, plus, i'm not using adacore's gnat
mod6: then add '\' following those.
mod6: barfs spitting out flag usage, neither of which are available.
asciilifeform: ( i enable all - afaik - of the checks that are for some reason off by default )
asciilifeform: gnat apparently has the utterly worthless ( even for auditing, it produces megatonne of liquishit ) O0 as default.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: trinque a fine example, too, the more i think of it the more i like it. aedificium (=building) != aedificans (... building) != aedificant (still!!! building) and so on and so forth qs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am speaking of the principle, described ^
mircea_popescu: our cook's thermometer clearly indicates that the fault in koch's gpg is located in the upper left cpu quadrant.
asciilifeform: again yer speaking of the f
asciilifeform: gotta go either contact ( normal people's voltmeter ) or induction sense ring ( magnetic field )
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 00:46 asciilifeform: possibly delicate balance, between finding it anywhere in the room ( as a poorly made amp will ) and nowhere
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 19:55 erlehmann: asciilifeform you long for the days of codepage switching, i guess?
mircea_popescu: erlehmann the "improved" comment was re your http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684708
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 00:43 asciilifeform: (mostly) unrelatedly, asciilifeform bought some chinese $various , and , in the crate, discovered a phree goodie, a 'voltalert' tool, that supposedly tests for presence of mains current noncontactfully -- by looking for 50/60Hz electric field. but witness the surprise : it gives false negative on maybe 1/3 of the hot mains wires tried...
mircea_popescu: fucking "spellchekers", they have 1/3 my vocabulary and no head for puns.
mircea_popescu: children that should have died of exonsure suspended from anal hooks in the open before the age of twelve.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this endless lulz of socialism whereby they come up with a dumb "solution" to a non-problem which sane people ignore ("code pages") and THEN they come up with an "improved" solution to the same nonproblem and expect sane people to not piss on their face because hey, IMPROVED!
erlehmann: i later learned someone corrected all that stuff in the file sent to the printer by hand. their loss.
erlehmann: i think we submitted more changes than any other book by one or two orders of magnitude, just because we had it automated.
erlehmann: but then drafts had to be sent as ODT and came back as PDF to be annotated. in hindsight that was probably a measure to prevent too many annotations.
erlehmann: there are squares where cat faces should be
erlehmann: and they actually failed at astral plane unicode characters
mircea_popescu: they were fine days - i never switched a page throughout.
erlehmann: asciilifeform you long for the days of codepage switching, i guess?
mircea_popescu: all they do is spawn vermin ? i never noticed this !
mircea_popescu: you mean ... just like everyting ELSE the socialistards came up with ?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: that's the only forgiveable way of doing orc alphabets ( ru, il, gr )
erlehmann: koi8-r was the one where bitfuckery rearranged the cyrillic glyphs so that taking away a bit made it ASCII
mod6: anyway, a couple days ago, i was messing around trying to go from 1 .. Word. And I thought that I got a compile error saying "Expected Standard.Integer, found "Word"" or something of the kind.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:19 phf: fwiw unifont is not even the whole story. consider extensions like CTL, which allows you to have special rendering for a sequence of glyphs. a completely separate technology from ligatures and combining characters, but part of the standard never the less.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684366 << or that stupid encoding shceme they came up with to allow the russkis to pretend like they have cyrillic domain names. ewgh.
mircea_popescu: not that they weren't, at that.
mircea_popescu: you know, when the emperor died of arsenic poisoning upon eating the "endless life pill", it was not exactly because the alchemists were charlatans.
erlehmann: i guess they „try“, as in keeping up appearances
mircea_popescu: or perhaps because the notion is an escher.
mircea_popescu: it lost me at "tries". no computer should try anything. that's for (young) girlfriends on their way to the dungeon cell.
erlehmann: it makes it immediately clear what is part of the grammar and what not
erlehmann: one of the few things about urbit i like is that the system tries to not allow users to input statements not syntactically valid.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu that is actually a major point from me. i tend to drink only with people who either proved they can behave appropriately or it would not bother me if they fucked me in the ass with a supersized dragon dildo while i'm too drunk to resist.
mircea_popescu: so then you do ~what we do when you're having a moment of clarity and are promiscuous when drunk.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu when i write software that considers the input language, i tend to write a grammar for the subset i am going to handle. so yes, i have written software that considers i.e. only characters valid in urlencoded base64 as input and rejects everything else.
mircea_popescu: are they paying you for this btw ? or do you just donate to them for free and then donate to them also the HAVING DONATED, like bob beck "has grown accustomed to expect" ?
erlehmann: my “those people are almost certainly charlatans” moment with urbit was when their software barfed on a character being more than one byte, despite claiming unicode support.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, the desire to break the visually-inspectable quality of the machine has been long in the tooth. they want their girlfriends "mystique", the libertards.
erlehmann: about characters, if you start using shit i do not expect, prepare to fail at the input frontier.
mircea_popescu: and the distinction is based on ???
asciilifeform: dun forget to insert nonprintingspaces between the chars for good measure, for potentially INFINITE bytewise-permutes mapping to SAME VISUAL STRING
erlehmann: the woman.
erlehmann: mircea_popescu if i was not entirely sure she would never have gotten there.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 17:04 erlehmann: jurov converting case is locale-specific, therefore better left undone.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684340 << bwahahahaha. "actually rebuilding mosul is mosul specific, therefore it has become necessary to destroy the world's heritage to save it"
asciilifeform: or the wonderful duped a, a, e, p, that lets whoever log in as 'mircea_popescu' on fleanode and it will display EXACTLY in 'modernized' terminal as the actual mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: the one in shiticode
asciilifeform: or how about the raging idiocy of, e.g., nonprintingspace char.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann well let me know if balloon-with-face cleans up the residue when you tell it to.
erlehmann: let me say it like thit: a friend of mine once randomly started to masturbate beside me while visiting. i did not care as i was occupied otherwise, since she did not leave stains. if she had, i would have told her to clean it up.
mircea_popescu: "who the fuck are you and why are your clothes still on" applies equally well to cunt and to squiggly. it is my house like it is my computer, exactly.
asciilifeform: and making me read an ENTIRE MOTHERFUCKING STRING before i can say how many chars are in it, or whether a certain substring occurs at the end -- is not ill-thought ?
asciilifeform: than it otherwise could be. than it was in 1990.
mircea_popescu: or just on the occasionally missing carkeys, cellphones, etc.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: in the only terms that matter : brain cycles.
mircea_popescu: erlehmann that is the important point here : the bicentennial folly is neither relevant nor long for this world. it is no proper part of human history, nor will be long remembered.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684325 << no socialism has been baked in. everything is open to revision, and everything WILL be revised. bitcoin code, abolition of slavery, EVERY single socialist "victory" is on the table and will be reversed.
asciilifeform: 'new characters', e.g. integral sign, are MINDBOGGLINGLY EXPENSIVE. to the point where i dun expect to ever live to see a halfway justified case for one.
mircea_popescu: aka "i am a human perfect in every way and equal to all others, what could there be that's not directly obvious to me as well as anyone"
mircea_popescu: re which, i heartily recommend http://trilema.com/2016/vacation/ for the ustard "guessing from context" what rimjob means
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:19 mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:58 asciilifeform: the mere possibility of 'new characters' is antisanity.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684317 relates to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675632 and in general is a very fucking important point. what do you expect NEW characters could POSSIBLY mean to you ? they're new ergo meaningless! they have to be! "oh but guess from context what could it mean" is the typical ustardian delusion.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the problem with bureaucrats is that it universally is not possible to provide them with an above-secondary education. << AHA, they pursue baccalaureate education in studying their High School experiences
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rather.
mircea_popescu: which brings a different matter home : traduttore tradditore etcetera, but only if trying to cross the human-monkey linguistic divide.
mircea_popescu: consequently they form a highschooler's toolbox and then go build themselves monumental graves.
mircea_popescu: the problem with bureaucrats is that it universally is not possible to provide them with an above-secondary education.
mircea_popescu: you can not, still to this day, in spite of all sort of "published research", include a statement of its own coherence in a coherent system sufficiently complex (so as to include a statement of certain mathematical truths...)
mircea_popescu: "romanian thinks all other languages are badly written romanian", and this because it actually continues latin.
mircea_popescu: it is the correct mark of the perfective participle in this circumstance. so "cumfaced" i guess.
mircea_popescu: this is why i like that romanian cartoon series, "robotzi". they do it extensively, to breaking point. single example : at some point one says to the other "daca stiam c-ai sa ajungi un ghetzalit nespalat". this is evidently in standard romanian "if i knew you'll end up and unwashed ???". the ??? is iffy, because ghetzalit is not a word in romanian. in fact, it's a construction : ghetz is how you say sperm in hungarian, and -
mircea_popescu: anyway. your chief point is correct, in that flexion is pure lisp for language, that i even to this day can say inexistent words whose meanings are directly evident to romanian speakers is a large matter. english even has rudiments of proper flexion, i can say "the built" and it connotes, but not to all speakers.
trinque: and I don't see how this'd not be way more cumbersome with the ideographs
trinque: ah, well sorta still works. meant that in latin the user can generate concepts on the fly, and have them known as singular items upon which to anchor others
mircea_popescu: ie, they possibly spoke too soon.
mircea_popescu: now, if the jews and other golden crescents notated six centuries later whereas the chinese notated a few centuries before but a language already 2500 years old...
a111: Logged on 2017-07-14 20:29 phf: asciilifeform: i used to try and clarify the inflection, but then realized that it's mostly meaningless for the anglophones. so however much it grates,
mircea_popescu: trinque the sad news being that your equivalences are very much in the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683821 vein. if the built were a girl you'd say it differently.
asciilifeform: ( with obvious 'man', 'woman', 'cow', etc stick figures still embedded in the most vintage glyphs )
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 18:45 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684311 << the amusing part here is that ~possibly~, as an entirely speculative, rather literary than linguistic notion, the chinese started out early, and as such started out small : they had but 8 or so letters, which they combined in words (with silent winds, as was the fashion 5000 years pre-magdalene). as the complexity driven by a large empire ever piled, these short and few letters sta
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684534 << afaik there is 0 evidence of their ever having had a syllabulary... pictograph liquishit from cave drawings to today.
trinque: standardizing writing *below* concepts appears the only possible sanity
asciilifeform: trinque: wait till you remember that the cn folx are fractally damaged, they can't ~speak~ like normal humans either, gotta do this 11-tone singsong thing
trinque: or more likely, never turn combinations into their *own* singular concepts, upon which to build other relationships in mind
BingoBoingo: erlehmann: Anyways the point is, even pickeljaube still can't make Illinois as cool as Missouri where people wear DOT helmets, but are allowed to attach scabbard and ride with carbine on steel horse
trinque dun see how it could be anything but the squashiest of thinking tools
trinque: I'm still an idiot flash-card-level student of latin, but worth discussing that as the standard for "proper alphabetical lang". even things like "afui" make me feel like a bumbling idiot when in english I have to say "I was away". only way with pictographs to combine meanings and generate new would seem to be "well yeah, go with me on this one, but this one is sorta related-looking to these other two"
erlehmann: BingoBoingo i recall there was a study about helmet laws https://msu.edu/~telder/donorcycles6-10-09.pdf
mircea_popescu: then they made the stupid move of coming up with separate notiations for the 16 meanings of the letter tsa.
mircea_popescu: rted to carry multiple meanings. FILIP B is still how you say philip the 2nd in greek to this day, because B is also 2. it means a number of things, and if you didn't know "set" is the english word with the largest number of meanings.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 16:57 asciilifeform: if i start writing english as strings of 16-bit indices into the oxford dictionary, people will laugh.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684311 << the amusing part here is that ~possibly~, as an entirely speculative, rather literary than linguistic notion, the chinese started out early, and as such started out small : they had but 8 or so letters, which they combined in words (with silent winds, as was the fashion 5000 years pre-magdalene). as the complexity driven by a large empire ever piled, these short and few letters sta
trinque: she had a joek of the pointed variety.
erlehmann: trinque if ${girl?} wanted to make a joke, she should know: APL is not the worst offender, merely the first. rules for identifiers in c# correspond to unicode standard annex 15.
BingoBoingo: <erlehmann> large scale deployments are always driven by statistics. i once read that many stats have no bike helmet laws because lawmakers are convinced this would reduce biking to the point where more cardiovascular diseases outrun benefits of less head injuries. << For all the idiocies Illinois does participate in, it refrains from helmet laws. This means the occasional perosn riding a chromed up cruisers with a DOT non-compliant Pick
asciilifeform: trinque: there weren't any shitgnomes yet.
trinque: asciilifeform: if it had found its way into ansi, the shitgnomes would've demanded moar glyphs, and ended up in exactly the same place
erlehmann: i noticed once logs of another channel were gone