a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 15:29 mircea_popescu: tbh, this item aside (it was just given as an ~example~ anyway), i do not expect that on the medium term we will be able to avoid "and here's the special asm library, links at link time with the rest of compiled shit" situations.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739561 << possibly i mentioned this, i am making an asm ffa in parallel with the ada item
asciilifeform: ( and is made of junkyard parts, given as the actual FG stock is s.nsa inventory, lol )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739542 << this is particularily hysterical given the http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pl2303x lulz.
mircea_popescu: afaik lisp never actually avoided this either.
mircea_popescu: tbh, this item aside (it was just given as an ~example~ anyway), i do not expect that on the medium term we will be able to avoid "and here's the special asm library, links at link time with the rest of compiled shit" situations.
mircea_popescu: maybe i didn't make the inline incantation sufficiently magical, but anyway. "straight asm", what'd you prefer.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 15:20 mircea_popescu: hey, minigame produced reference implementation of ada keccak can well contain inline asm rotation, and who dun like it can do whatever they will.
asciilifeform: returning to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739533 , i will point out that inline asm is ~likewise~ a gcc-specific syntax. so if you're marrying gcc you may as well use the existing ( as seen in ffa ) rotate intrinsic.
diana_coman: the ref is quite good in this respect I'd say, not that hard to follow
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it is straightforward from algo descriptions in the reference
mircea_popescu: i suppose ye age olde "i didn't know there was interest" at play.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: PeterL by his own admission didn't test the thing at all
diana_coman: aand found the bug at least on this one: rho initialises Ar(0,0) BUT uses then first thing...Ar(1,0)
asciilifeform: whereas the point of using an algorithmic lang is readability & portability.
mircea_popescu: just as reference implementation will bake in FG, and users of others are responsible for others' quirks.
mircea_popescu: but reference also has no business baking in whatever quirks of "human rights & the fyotoor", known & unknown.
mircea_popescu: reference means "what works for me" not "what works for others".
mircea_popescu: hey, minigame produced reference implementation of ada keccak can well contain inline asm rotation, and who dun like it can do whatever they will.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 15:01 asciilifeform: exactly same nonsense as the carry flag thing
diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, portable is the rub there; I'll read more on ada for now, nothing much to add atm
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the sad fact re gnat is that it is in fact the only ada. being as the 'alternatives' are, without exception, closed winturds.
asciilifeform: motherfuckers, there is not a single comp made in 40 years that doesn't have a carry flag. WHY YOU HID IT
asciilifeform: exactly same nonsense as the carry flag thing
asciilifeform: it's a single fucking cpu instruction on ~all known cpu. and yet some wrecker saw it fit to exclude it from the language standard.
asciilifeform: afaik there isn't a proper solution.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I don't yet know the answer to that; I'm still eating Ada so I can't decide either way; still, I don't ...like it, that's all I said; perhaps there is no solution to it, perhaps there is one
asciilifeform: diana_coman: how do you propose to rotate without it ? as i see it, the language standard simply has a rotate-shaped hole in it
diana_coman: rho uses that Rotate_Left function which is imported from gnat; I'd rather not have it in a reference implementation tbh
diana_coman: rho step is second,what can I say; first one passed, yes (theta)
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, well, he had those step functions private so initially inaccessible; so first I've tried a full test (i.e. input is this, do full keccak round, output should be this): it failed; so then I grunted through exposing the step functions at least at this stage and testing bit by bit;
mircea_popescu: did it pass any others ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, serpent passed the test vectors!!
asciilifeform: diana_coman: interesting, and it still passed the test vectors despite this ??
asciilifeform: folx without ideology are like dodo. simply waiting for the ship fulla dogs to land.
asciilifeform: by refusing to add. 'i'm too clean to touch a shovel' is the likely pathology.
mircea_popescu: it's like penis cage for the brain, somehow.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck.
mircea_popescu: exactly in the vein above. "understands how to add, thinks 4>5."
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 13:57 mircea_popescu: aaand in other lulz, https://blog.josefsson.org/2016/11/03/why-i-dont-use-2048-or-4096-rsa-key-sizes/
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 14:00 mircea_popescu: cultivated enough to mention bernstein&gf curve, uncomprehending enough to "post quantum algorithms". how do these happen, i wish to know.
asciilifeform: or hm you were prolly thinking of the asm one
mircea_popescu: but the attempt is evident.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739433 << lol next this fella will say, i suspect, 'why do you restrict the range of N'
mircea_popescu: the importance of a phuctor style primorial+commonkeyset gcding away is somehow easily overlooked by academic minds. but in practical terms it is the first line, degree (or even two!) ahead of haskelism a la gnfs
asciilifeform: 'state of the art' means ANY attack that i can describe.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 11:27 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739374 << can you enlighten us about why you believe there's no way to use information about range of factors (because you say so?), and about the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739371 as regards the number field sieve, as this doesn't seem to be published (or perharps for quadratic sieve). elliptic curve does benefit from smaller factors, but if the...
mircea_popescu: other lulz, same source : https://blog.josefsson.org/2017/08/03/vikings-d16-server-first-impressions/ (apparently there's an entire kanzure 's wanker club dedicated to republican hosting ; vikings.net and whatnot. doesn't seem to be actually working though, but i did join their irc, see what happens.
mircea_popescu: cultivated enough to mention bernstein&gf curve, uncomprehending enough to "post quantum algorithms". how do these happen, i wish to know.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other lulz, https://blog.josefsson.org/2016/11/03/why-i-dont-use-2048-or-4096-rsa-key-sizes/
mircea_popescu: so logically if indeed the larger upper bound was deemed useful we'd move the standard to 8192 bits N with 4096 bit p/q rather than do this.
mircea_popescu: it may appear beneficial to instead produce larger sets, such as of 4096 bits. the UPPER BOUND of the gain from this process is known ; the lower bound of losses from it is not known, because yes if you allow 4096 bit p, q and test, an acceptable N can be composed of the product between 17 and 2^4092 - 177 or whatever it was.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 15:01 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737387 << this is alternatively a perfectly acceptable approach ; expensive as all fuck though. prolly should be the standard for homemade keys.
mircea_popescu: this whole thing aside, the only objection to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739433 ie, "produce sets of 2048 bits, check them for primality, if they're prime multiply them and if the product is a suitable N keep them else start over" was http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737682
mircea_popescu: yes, in about 6% of cases the N will come out as 111..., in which case you know that both p and q are actually 1111 1111 led, ie you'll have 2 bits of each. and in 0.001% of cases N will led by FF and have the next bit set, so you'll know both p and q have the first octet set. if you have an extension attack allowing you to parlay 8 leading bits into the prime exposure, you can thereby crack rsa in 0.001% of cases.
mircea_popescu: ie, "you have the following information about any and all factors : they're 11 led, 1 terminated, 2045 true random bits. knock yourself out."
mircea_popescu: there's no argument that informations about range of factors CAN be used. the point is minorily that a) a range of 2045 bits is sufficient and majorily that b) should this range NOT be sufficient, the correct response is to extend IT, rather than to introduce key-substitute mechanisms in the actual encryption scheme.
mircea_popescu: factors that are very small are trivially a vulnerability, as the 17 example shows. what is "small enough" is somewhat of an open question, but 512 BITS does conceiovably qualify.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739432 << factors differing by only a few bits in length aren't particularily unsafe, which is why the original alt-rsa spec involved them (see eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-14#1697613 and the eventual end of that discussion.)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739424 << is the first figure with customer's gear and the second with yours ?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 03:30 asciilifeform: ( reading the linked item, it would be impossible to infer that it is ~not~ one )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739412 << i don't think anything besides the stringing of words is seriously contemplated.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 23:43 asciilifeform: and the difficulty of breaking rsa via known methods is proportional to the size of the smallest prime. you oughta know that.
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739374 << can you enlighten us about why you believe there's no way to use information about range of factors (because you say so?), and about the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739371 as regards the number field sieve, as this doesn't seem to be published (or perharps for quadratic sieve). elliptic curve does benefit from smaller factors, but if the...
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
kyliee: Bitcoin... I need to understand how to trade without using one of the government run platforms
BingoBoingo: What brings you out to these here boondocks?
asciilifeform: ( reading the linked item, it would be impossible to infer that it is ~not~ one )
asciilifeform: sooo they are also fraudulently pushing bch' ( or what it was) as a fork of bch ?
asciilifeform: 'It is now up to the next billion people to start to use Bitcoin Cash.' << lol!!
asciilifeform: i meant rigorous proof that the smallestprime will be on avg smaller in his scenario than in traditional
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 14:36 mircea_popescu: however you "cut" the problem out, the surface of the cut becomes the problem
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 03:17 mircea_popescu: the notion that bitcoin can somehow by stolen by name is so ridoinculous as to betray its ustardian origins. bitcoin is not a name.
mircea_popescu: in other "obscure attempt at http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1685850 fares as well as could be expected", https://futurism.com/bitcoin-classic-shuts-down/ (evidently, 100% http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ mode, "here's our next pick" bs)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a pretty good olympiad problem, actually, to show why PeterL's scheme is still a bad idea even though '17' scenario is ruled out given as he capped the lower bitness at 512
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739375 << the first factor found will necessarily be the smallest of p, q. therefore if your q is 17 and p some 4094 bit prime, you're fucked as the N will fall over within microseconds.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 22:41 lobbes: i.e. it still uses someone else's code for the 'core' irc functionality. I'd rather that core functionality be ircbot, but of course this'll be a huge time investment migrating everything (and learning lisp). In the hopper, though.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739330 << thjat works, can even make the archive item a vpatch when it's done for instance.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: simply arresting the rot dun take much: i expect 'cuntoo' repo box will suffice. once isp winter is over...
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 20:54 asciilifeform: but rather confiscation of the whole shebang from the wreckers.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739321 << expensive tho, who the hell's gonna man all the castles.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 20:30 asciilifeform: but instead a rerun of the august item
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739288 << who's gonna bother to fork worthless item, ya know.
asciilifeform: PeterL: i am giving benefit of doubt, i'd rather think that you missed the powers-of-2-forever thread, rather than having read it and understood nothing
asciilifeform: and much higher than the chance of any considerable number of leading 0s in p or q generated via proper scheme.
asciilifeform: PeterL: work out the chance, in your scheme, of the smaller prime being below 2048b in length.
asciilifeform: PeterL: consider, even plain brute force benefits from permitting one of the primes to have less than half of the total bitness of the product
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 11:33 diana_coman: I've been playing around with the keccak implementation from PeterL and it seems overall all right
PeterL_: but isn't it easier to break knowing that they must be 2048b than if they could be anywhere within a wider range?
asciilifeform: and the difficulty of breaking rsa via known methods is proportional to the size of the smallest prime. you oughta know that.
PeterL_: why do they have to be 2048b?
asciilifeform: either is a legal bitness
asciilifeform: this was discussed here and if PeterL_ followed the logs, he would have noticed.
asciilifeform: to simplify karatsuba and other algos.
asciilifeform: neither can be greater than 2048b in size
PeterL_: since once you get p, you should know the size q needs to be
asciilifeform: there is no such thing as 'bad value' for individual p or q
PeterL_: and you end up with the right size of value for p*q , right?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:33 apeloyee: diana_coman: if keeping the minimum of 2^2047 for primes, you can, for example, generate primes between 2^2047 and 2^2049, and start over if the modulus is unacceptable. not sure what minimum for p and q makes sense.
PeterL_: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737536 << for key generation, why not pick a p between say 2^512 and 2^3584 (or whatever values) until you find a prime, then look for a q between 2^4096/p and 2^4097/p ?
PeterL_: hi, missed the 30 second window to identify as PeterL
shinohai: How does it help the poor schizophrenic ? He's probably freaking out "I'll bet they know I took this pill......"
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in психушка noose, https://archive.is/5aOSp >> 'The U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved a pill Monday that has a digital ingestion tracking system which can tell if medication was ingested by a patient. ... to allow easier treatment of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and some depression'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but i suppose is now a dried, rather than soft turd. << So you broom rather than mop
lobbes: i.e. it still uses someone else's code for the 'core' irc functionality. I'd rather that core functionality be ircbot, but of course this'll be a huge time investment migrating everything (and learning lisp). In the hopper, though.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739265 << My ultimate goal with the thing would be to use trinque's ircbot and try and rebuild lobbesbot off of that. As it stands now, lobbesbot is nothing more than a suite of 'supybot modules' I wrote
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform you just tell people "follow the last". << Tag, category, etc.
phf: still waiting for the kristallnacht
asciilifeform: ( rms, sad as it may be to say, is among these. )
asciilifeform: find also the collaborationists, who tolerated.
asciilifeform: the solution is absolutely never 'hey which flycheck turd should i use nao'
phf: (there's obviously no feature equivalent mode for iswitchb, recommended replacements while i'm sure work for some are overengineered monstrosities)
phf: shit my emacs greets me with iswitchb-mode is obsolete on boot, if i cared enough i'd patch it out, but it's a daily meditation on the general level of fuck
asciilifeform: worthless piece of shit, 'used by no one' until they broke functionality (on crapple) of the venerable and eternal 'flymake'
asciilifeform: recall the old thread,
phf: amusingly none of that "super fast" shit is used anywhere. venerable hunchentoot was used used by weitz to deliver consulting solutions (was also used by me for same purpose back when it was tbnl), these super fast toys are used to host author's blog.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's in there ? openssl ?
phf: well, in a sense that it's not a special wrong. they also run systemd and can't wait for wayland etc. etc.
asciilifeform: i'll disagree with the 'nothing wrong'.
asciilifeform: the 'it's ok for your sbcl world to segfault' people
phf: "shinmera" is part of the new school of common lispers who put out reams of code that's basically ffi to c world. nothing wrong with it per se, but from traditional lisp perspective they are prime wreckers
phf: "The need for Harmony arose out of me not finding any suitably powerful sound solution in Lisp. I tried doing a pure Lisp solution at first, but was not able to figure out how to make things go fast without sacrificing design. So, in the interest of performance, I first set out to write a C library that does the essential sound computations for me. This library is called libmixed."
asciilifeform: but instead a rerun of the august item
asciilifeform: 'Anyone who held Bitcoin at the time Bitcoin Cash Plus was created became owners of Bitcoin Cash Plus. This means that Bitcoin holders as of block 501407 ' << apparently, contrary to appearances, is NOT a fork of bch
asciilifeform: 'The authorities declare that the sudden increase in the prices of provisions and vegetables is totally unwarranted. ... It was officially asserted that there was no reason for apprehension with regard to the food supply, and that it was needless for citizens to start the accumulation of stores of provisions. The only effect of such procedure, it was added, would be to still further raise prices.' etc
mircea_popescu: somewhere on trilema the record of "o noes, people FOR NO REASON increased prices, when we're totally gonna win war", but gotta split so will look for it later.
mircea_popescu: the epitome of this being of course teh austro-hungarians cca 1914.
asciilifeform: also gotta wonder what is , e.g., bar of soap in $ there
asciilifeform: 'The price of the cryptocurrency in the Southern African nation jumped as high as $13,499' but in which $ ?
mircea_popescu: in other sads, /me ended up readiong log linked from trinque's paybot discussion, can confess no longer remembers what http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-03#1693391 was about.
mircea_popescu: aha. afaik that's the dogma to this day, "whenever you feel like someone's branch can be your genesis"
trinque: better stated, I observe that nothing about having a continuous tree prevents naming particular runs of the tree, pointing at, using for different purposes.
mircea_popescu: ah. alright. without prejudice to the principle, "can't make everything one single hairstrand", there's also the consideration that can't make the whole repuiblican scalp buzz-cut
asciilifeform: gotta prevent the spittoon from being in one strand. otherwise e.g. linux kernel becomes an antecedent to everything
asciilifeform: ( of which i have only 1 pair atm, but they did not ship with my feet )
trinque: can name the antecedent and still put vpatches in two piles
asciilifeform: they're separate programs.
mircea_popescu: when they become something they could have been but weren't, they'll be something else.
mircea_popescu: the matter is what things are.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your brand of logical here is inadequate. the matter isn't what things could be.
mircea_popescu: otherwise the eminently usable trinque bot is what, iirc in hanbot's hands too she was contemplating doing soemthing
asciilifeform: rather than logical parts of same proggy
asciilifeform: point being that they are independent components that could be changed out
trinque: this requires that particular hash antecedent, and not my blog post on the subj
mircea_popescu: so is this a regrind then ?
trinque: goes right to what I've been saying in the hypertext thread, too
trinque: I can see it, and also that the case where it would be impossible (tangled hierarchy, mutual dependency) is idiocy.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 18:43 diana_coman: and re peterl's keccak implementation trouble is that thoroughly testing it looks atm as much work as writing a new one in the process anyway so whatever version ends up with tests and everything is the one that will make it into v too I would say
asciilifeform: leave mechanical diffing to the machine, it's why we even have machine.
asciilifeform: being a human diff, on other hand, is not great.
phf: (this is actually related to the code reuse thread we had, the extra-v code reuse machinery is fundamentally at odds with vtronic approach, the conclusion in that thread was "do more retyping it's good for you", which i agree with, but i believe asciilifeform was against it)
mircea_popescu: first line in install being "install this other thing" is generally an indication item present can't be genesised. maybe not an absolute rule, esp if multiple priors involved. but if just one...
mircea_popescu: trinque you know the cursive "trinque" overwrites the top title on the page on my system ?
trinque: cool, I'll look into that then.
mircea_popescu: so im reading trinque.org now in hopes there's explainy.
mircea_popescu: phf how do i click on ircbot-multiple-channels to see what's there ?
mircea_popescu: so trinque you made two diff items that differ how ? one's the irc bot the other's the logger ?
phf: mircea_popescu: there's a bit of confusion there with logbot, because ircbot and logbot were both published by trinque by they are not vtronic connected, they rely on lisp machinery to load each other. multichannel equivalents of both were publshed by ben_vulpes
diana_coman: all the merrier for sure, yes
diana_coman: and re peterl's keccak implementation trouble is that thoroughly testing it looks atm as much work as writing a new one in the process anyway so whatever version ends up with tests and everything is the one that will make it into v too I would say
mircea_popescu: phf yes but how do they lkink ?
mircea_popescu: trinque user rather than you know, patch published
asciilifeform: because i also ended up with http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot&search= and dun see where they meet
asciilifeform: also gotta nitpick, this is not the first time vtronic crosspollination,
diana_coman: I get the feeling that v is not really seen as versioning in the sense of these are the steps I took, still mulling a bit on thiw
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. kinda iirc the whole idea of the design at the time was for to be able to have this convo today.
mircea_popescu: it's basically mostly that + the keccac ada peterl wrote + some new stuff
asciilifeform: ( linker then links it )
diana_coman: it uses the mpi part and quite substantially so works
mircea_popescu: the significant benefit of branch would be that this'd be the first in-the-field case to demonstrate this interprojects interop thing.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, we can do it yes; I guess the question is where to start i.e. no point in starting from koch that I can see; starting from asciilifeform 's sane-mpi would be one; adds and deletes stuff
asciilifeform: thing could shrink further, i left koch's buffering system , used by the logger ( also remained ), intact
asciilifeform: ( i even threw out the prime gen )
mircea_popescu: anyway. my conclusion is ima do the eu-crypto as a new genesis, because really most of the koch crap in mpi (esp the prng crap) got dirtched
asciilifeform: but i suppose is now a dried, rather than soft turd.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform certainly did not make any attempt to sanitize the remaining routines or otherwise ascertain correctness, however
asciilifeform: ( the correct way, ought to have been, to do it in individual tiny snips from gpg-1.4.10, so the pedigree can be authenticated . )
asciilifeform: prior to realizing that ffa is the troo path, asciilifeform actually planned to entirely re-do the mpi item
mircea_popescu: i meant, rather than make a genesis for eu-crypto, just make a branch of your mpi
asciilifeform: ( namely, the volume of deletolade and moveolade liquishit resulting, is multi-megabyte )
asciilifeform: you can produce this mechanically. the unfortunate bit is that it gives same problem as basing trb on original 5.3.1 tarball contents did
mircea_popescu: (so in this sense saves them the hassle to v themselves ; though sigs welcome of course)
phf: asciilifeform: it didn't, i just didn't realize that there was a proper genesis
mircea_popescu: ima have diana_coman put the whole eulora crypto in vpatch form even if we're not yet advanced enough with the cleaning of codebase to use v properly.
asciilifeform: afaik there's nothing peculiar re the vdiff. lemme know why your parser barfed, phf , when you find out
mircea_popescu: well anyway, this'd be a great time to go through the slag, "items that didn't work list" see what other mpis are in there
phf: mircea_popescu: i briefly had it, but removed it due to lack of use (it also predates the sbcl rewrite, so it was particularly janky code)
mircea_popescu: phf do you have roughly the equiv of a "feed paste in here" slit for it ?
phf: oooh, well, that fixes that then
asciilifeform: tarball contains 2 files, the genesis, and sig
phf: but oftentimes when i post a patch something comes up anyway. like the recent mpi release by asciilifeform is a vpatch, but it lacks a genesis, which breaks all kinds of assumptions (e.g. the tree visualizer wouldn't work at all)
mircea_popescu: alright so then is this structure deemed seaworthy for a while ?
phf: correct, so far there's not been any editorializing. even dead vpatches live in their own patchset
mircea_popescu: so then, it's more like a sort of curated "Best of" blogposts eh ? you go around reading people's blogs like the editor of old science mags, going "plox put this in format for editorial"
asciilifeform: ( jurov's apparatus worx great. but it only introduces messages to the ml. )
phf: it is still manual process, and we've had a thread about it along the lines of "build it when there's need"
phf: well, that's fine by me, i think what happened is some other conversation got crossed over into what i was thinking. alf said you gotta publish, to which i responded with a very non committal "i'll think about it". but there were parts that i was thinking of publishing. specifically vpatch parser and presser both of which don't really on external tools, but accomplish the whole thing in memory. might be useful for further vtronics
mircea_popescu: so the desired interop with wp would look like what ?
asciilifeform: and moar recently the db timings experiment
asciilifeform: the 'wires' thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how would you see it interoperate ? there's links in html, is more needed ?
mircea_popescu: there's some neuralgia involved here. what is it ?
asciilifeform: the current item, as i understand it, doesn't interoperate with wp ( or otherwise blogotronic )
mircea_popescu: he wrote it, let him run it, and not be discouraged by "not forthcoming" or w/e happened there.
mircea_popescu: why would you build something else instead of using the something that already is ?
mircea_popescu: i'm not sure what the benefit of publishing would be. so what, someone else runs it or what.
phf: i'm not sure what publishing the whole thing entails, the only bit that i even considered is something along the lines of what trinque did with his irc bot
mircea_popescu: fine, so i read 'em when they were absent, woe unto me.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 17:59 phf: asciilifeform: no haven't published it, it's a big ball of mud that in the gran lisp machine tradition lives in TMSR package, along with log bot, log visualizer, log database, etc. so if there's interest in any specific parts i can extract them into library and publish, but i've not been planning on publishing the whole thing
mircea_popescu: now, which of these two didn't you have in mind with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739048 cuz i read both in there.
mircea_popescu: there's two major management problems with publishing : one if it's done heathenly, like alf does it, pastes and whatnot ; the other is subjective, "i published it so it's no longer my thing".
phf: i resent the "sorta works" bit, i've been responsive with any feedback related to log and patch visualizer. i've not read todays log so maybe i missed how /patches fits into greater scheme of things
mircea_popescu: are you gonna start charging for it then ?
phf: mircea_popescu: no, publish meaning put relevant parts into patch visualizer, i otherwise haven't published anything. log/patch visualizer is presented as a service, as far as log is concerned the philosophy has been "write your own" and there's not been much interest in the v part until now
mircea_popescu: or did you just make to try and ruin the republic thereby, "here's an engine, it sorta works, im never making it work correctly haha and fuck you" ?
mircea_popescu: "i've not been planning on publishing the whole thing" << why not, are you planning to what, sell it ?
mircea_popescu: phf what do you mean "publish", dump another paste ?
phf: mircea_popescu: it is (though there's an interruption in the chain that i need to regrind) that doesn't help me though, because it's the whole thing, rather than parts.
asciilifeform: the www viewer thing.
asciilifeform: aha, that's what it was called. the item which i suspect is 99% of what draws the heathens into 'git' etc
asciilifeform: phf: consider at the very least sawing off the code parser and entire set of items that pertain to www
phf: asciilifeform: no haven't published it, it's a big ball of mud that in the gran lisp machine tradition lives in TMSR package, along with log bot, log visualizer, log database, etc. so if there's interest in any specific parts i can extract them into library and publish, but i've not been planning on publishing the whole thing
asciilifeform: aside from 1 nitpick, the charts overflow my screen