Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-11-14 | 2014-11-16 → ↓
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: do you do any business in franklin county?
The20YearIRCloud: Housewise? No, not a fan of their zoning & property inspection board. If we grow enough i'm sure i'll HAVE to go there, but for now i'd like to avoid it.
The20YearIRCloud: One of the counties we're in has virtually no permiting process for home repairs, if I did the stuff I'm doing there in Columbus I'd of had 5 figures worth of fines.
The20YearIRCloud: (Of course, I'd of got a permit in Franklin, but I hate the idea of it all).
decimation: do you think that's because they are in the union trade's pockets?
The20YearIRCloud: That wouldn't surprise me much, but they also have had coleman who is a ultra-liberal for years and years.
The20YearIRCloud: He's got a big claim to fame because he's good at 'renovating' poor districts, he does it by moving all the poor people from one neighborhood to another.
The20YearIRCloud: Downtown was a cesspool, then they kicked everyone out and made it so only rich could live there, alot of those moved to the short north. Then they did the same thing with the short north and all those people moved to Linden and Hilltop.
decimation: I've heard the short north is popular with the kids around osu
The20YearIRCloud: I had a house up there I was dealing with for someone, and I had roofers up there doing work. Zoning came by and complained that we hadn't bought the $100 permit, so they forced the guys off the roof even though it was going to rain soon and wouldn't let them put the tarp up there till there was a permit.
decimation: this as much as anyone 'owns' a house in the us
The20YearIRCloud: Well, you can drive 45 minutes outside of a columbus where you can buy land, build a smoke factory and the county asks for a $5 paperwork fee and literally nothing else
The20YearIRCloud: So, if I can go into a neighborhood where they really don't want me there, and one where the city bends over backwards to try and help me out, i'll go with the second one
The20YearIRCloud: Especially if the yields in both are almost identical
decimation: well, that's a fair point.
decimation: I imagine property tax in columbus and the 'burbs is sky high too
The20YearIRCloud: it's higher, it isn't astronomical though
The20YearIRCloud: A cheap house where we're working will run $450-$800 , same house in Columbus would be $1000-$1200
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23499 @ 0.00042279 = 9.9351 BTC [-]
The20YearIRCloud: of course the scale of markets is quite different. In the 4 counties I expect to be able to find maybe 200 quality properties a year. In franklin I could find 200 a month easily.
decimation: for the quality of hovel you are buying and fixing, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a few empty plots and buy some trailers or 'tiny homes' or whatever
decimation: I guess you gotta pay for utilities, etc in that case
The20YearIRCloud: You seen the houses we own?
The20YearIRCloud: I haven't delt with trailers yet, I want to but it's a different deal since you have to develop them out (including sewage) which is an EPA deal you can't get around easily.
decimation: I recall you saying a few months ago that they are all really old
The20YearIRCloud: Yeah, they are, but all are in good shape
decimation: yeah I guess where you are there is no water or sewage
The20YearIRCloud: It depends on where you want to do the trailer
decimation: septic systems are not cheap
The20YearIRCloud: Our first one was 2000sf, 5+br , 2ba, attached garage, built in 1880 and it turned out great
The20YearIRCloud: $10k-$20k
decimation: back in that time that would have been a mansion
decimation: or a multi-family house
The20YearIRCloud: Here's a bunch of random photos I had on my cellphone - https://www.dropbox.com/sc/rpzhm6eb5c14upe/AADe8OLgg4k-LFt2Xs3No9CEa
The20YearIRCloud: It would have been a medium/high level person's house. It's near downtown and is only a few houses away from a speakeasy that was in operation during prohibition. It sold recently (the speakeasy) for around $200k.
decimation: that's pretty nice inside actually
decimation: better than a trailer anyway
The20YearIRCloud: Those are 3 or 4 different houses
decimation: that first kitchen is nice
decimation: was that the amish fellows who cleaned it up?
The20YearIRCloud: I know I joke about owning slum houses, but they're all actually very nice. I underprice our rentals by maybe 5%-10% under normal market prices, and keep em in slightly better shape.
The20YearIRCloud: That first kitchen was the first complete rehab we did on a kitchen, every single thing there is brand new.
The20YearIRCloud: Second kitchen photo is from a duplex we just bought for $30k ($15k a side)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that flgiuht path thing is not nearly as indicative as it may seem to the casual observer.
mircea_popescu: flight paths in europe are seasonal.
mircea_popescu: Adlai: now that's an interesting hypothesis to test: a bot lurks and tracks "shortest path" to each past message, then records when i link it as opposed to somebody else links it to me <<< actually a reconstruction of the ba logs where lines are nodes and they're given pr as per original google mechanism may be the first step towards stemming this whole bundle.
Adlai: right, but then you can look at properties of the graph's flow to draw wildly overzealous conclusions about the attentiveness and lazyness of real live humans
mircea_popescu: decimation:trilema is dead too << still ?
decimation: yeah it's still down for me
mircea_popescu: decimation: my router bounces from telia to an isp in pheomix called "cwie llc" <<< this sounds like a route hijack then. qntra is in amsterdam.
decimation: interestingly I'm getting pings through, very very slowly
mircea_popescu: what ip ?
assbot: qntra is on phoenix nap, amsterdam.
decimation: is it hosted by 'secured servers'?
mircea_popescu: the heck can i see it then ?
assbot: ;;isup also everything even if it not a valid url
gribble: also everything even if it not a valid url is up
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is proving impossible to debug, people not seeing it pls to pastebin traceroutes at the time you don't see it.
mircea_popescu: uh so that's broken ?
mircea_popescu: ;;isup example.com
gribble: example.com is up
decimation: hehe yeah
decimation: ;;isup isuck.com
gribble: isuck.com is up
assbot: "example.com" actually is up
mircea_popescu: internet needs a canoniucal down domain
mircea_popescu: ;;isup obamacare.com
gribble: obamacare.com is up
decimation: ;;isup canonicaldowndomain.com
gribble: canonicaldowndomain.com is down
assbot: decimation yes its hosted there
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 05:39:46; mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu: so how the fuck then!
decimation: well they have a pheonix pop
decimation: who knows how shit gets routed
BingoBoingo: ;;isup test.down
gribble: test.down is down
assbot: that entry is wrong, its routed just fine to ams
mircea_popescu: assbot : pm lol
mircea_popescu: also, re earlier discussion : http://i.imgur.com/0C5fmGB.jpg
decimation: is that your picture of an ohio hovel?
decimation: yeah qntra is up
decimation: I donno, it smells to me like a server problem
joecool: responding to ping for me, nothing else
mircea_popescu: how the fuck. the server has been up all along, the load is like 0.1 or some shit for the hour.
joecool: mircea_popescu: nginx or whatever other server you use on it crashed?
decimation: interesting
mircea_popescu: joecool nope.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck would i see pages on a crashed server anyway.
cazalla: is that Bruno Kucinskas all there in the head? he reckons patrick murck raped like 30 kids
mircea_popescu: phin gage is a little strange. he does tons of research, some of which is useufl.
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 05:39:14; mircea_popescu: internet needs a canoniucal down domain
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00043684 = 18.5657 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;isup localhost:0
gribble: localhost:0 is up
mircea_popescu: so muh for that idea.
Adlai: hmph.
Adlai: curl: (7) Failed to connect to localhost port 0: Connection refused
Adlai wonders what's running on... some server
assbot: ;;isup adlais penis
gribble: adlais penis is up
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1MAK2HC.txt )
assbot: ha, im unbashable
decimation: the server is up, it looks to me that there is at least one route that is being ddosed/constantly reset
Adlai was wondering about ;;isup's server, should've !b5ed for that context
mircea_popescu: decimation the best i can come up with is that yes, some weakly router that is nevertheless for insane unexplainable reason priority route from the us is constantly fucked up
mircea_popescu: and im not even sure that i can do anything about it other than write angry letters.
decimation: yeah probably not
decimation: someone might have figured out how to trip the 'anti-ddos rate-limit' trap
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3784 @ 0.00042279 = 1.5998 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: At this rate we might need a router foundation!
mircea_popescu: why does it only catch you folk ?
decimation: I donno. if there is some theoretical anti-ddos filter, it might try to limit its action to certain subnets?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm having this looked into, but i tell you i dun even know wtf.
BingoBoingo hasn't had trouble accessing qntra in quite a while a few hundred miles from geographic center of USia
decimation: yeah in theory the internet has all kinds of redundant routing, in practice there are many chokepoints it would seem
Adlai: lizard nazis probing the turmite colony's readership habits
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so can you load it right now ?
BingoBoingo: Yeah, loads all kinds of fast
mircea_popescu: dude srsly...
RagnarDanneskjol: i just tried it from multiple IPs in US and EU - no luck here
decimation: I can get to qntra, but not trilema
joecool: qntra works from romanian ip
decimation: ah, now trilema works for me
joecool: lets try some other countries
mircea_popescu: joecool of course, i'm in argentina...
mircea_popescu: decimation this sporadic working no working would seem to mean route.
joecool: works from UK
decimation: yeah it could be some kind of route poisoning
mircea_popescu: the future of ba is point to point cabling it'd seem.
decimation: no - shortwave
Adlai: works now.
Adlai: (from tel aviv)
joecool: works back in 'murica now
joecool: they're onto us
mircea_popescu: maybe it's bitchbased.
BingoBoingo: Ass end of my traceroute to qntra.net http://dpaste.com/1QTVGPF
BingoBoingo: 1up fivezerotwo
BingoBoingo: !up fivezerotwo
joecool: BingoBoingo: looks same as mine except i have a ??? between the last two
fivezerotwo: hello again. so assbot appears to be hosted on this server, interesting
fivezerotwo: have fun figuring out what this attack is ^_^
assbot: not rly.
fivezerotwo: assbot, well it was taking a while to respond here
Adlai: !s fivezerotwo
assbot: im a slow typist.
Adlai toils and link graph bubbles
mircea_popescu: In the beginning there was assembler. And programming was hard. The semantic gap between how humans think about problems and what we knew how to tell computers to do was vast; our ability to manage complexity was deficient. And in the gap software defects did flourish, multiplying in direct proportion to the size of the programs we wrote.
mircea_popescu: And the lives of programmers were hard, and the case of their end-users miserable; for, strive as the programmers might, perfection was achieved only in toy programs while in real-world systems the defect rate was nigh-intolerable. And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
mircea_popescu: this is the stupidest thing i ever read.
mircea_popescu: i have NEVER and I do mean NEVER saw programs as good as bacxk in the days of asm.
mircea_popescu: i don't even think code as tight can still be made, much like you can't have a proper boot made anymore, and hardly a proper suit of clothes.
mircea_popescu: certainly not a top hat.
mircea_popescu: anyway, maybe their lives were harder, but 1960s programmers certainly seem happier.
mircea_popescu: perhaps because asm hard is the proper sort of hard. whereas dependency hell and library cruft is the horribly bad sort of hard.
decimation: well, the systems were small enough to 'fit in the head' as ascii might say
mircea_popescu: climbing a mountain versus diving in a septic tank sort of hard.
Adlai: !s bacxk
Adlai: oh it's a typo
assbot: !b 3
mircea_popescu: lol you ocd soul you.
assbot: ;;echo !b 5
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3WFTZ0G.txt )
gribble: !b 5
assbot: nope, not satisfactory
mircea_popescu: ;;echo !echo ;;echo !b 18
gribble: !echo ;;echo !b 18
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00042279 = 5.6442 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;google horatiu capastru
gribble: Iunie 2009 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2009/06>; Gandesc, deci gandesc pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/gandesc-deci-gandesc/>
Adlai: ;;google recursion
gribble: Recursion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion>; Recursion (computer science) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion_(computer_science)>; Recursion -- from Wolfram MathWorld: <http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Recursion.html>
Adlai: hm, no link to the google results page?
thestringpuller: ;;isup qntra.net
Adlai is talking about "<span class="spell _uwb">Did you mean:</span> <a class="spell" href="/search?espv=2&amp;q=recursion&amp;spell=1"><b><i>recursion</i></b></a> "
gribble: qntra.net is up
thestringpuller: qntra still down for anyone in US?
mircea_popescu: is it for you ?
decimation: qntra.net is down for me now, trilema too
fivezerotwo: mircea_popescu, it's down, I'm sure. http://check-host.net/check-http?host=qntra.net
TheNewDeal: bitbet is raging on
thestringpuller: http://dpaste.com/3H14489.txt << when asking coinbase about buterin's waterfall
mircea_popescu: lol why harassing indians.
assbot: BIP-65: Revisiting nLockTime | Qntra.net
mircea_popescu: wait was this supposed to work ?!
thestringpuller: Adlai: i can't see the article yet so I can't answer the question
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it's your article from yest
mircea_popescu: or w/e the 13th was
Adlai: or if you don't want to use the polish fork for some reason, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/main.h#L403
TheNewDeal: !sideways fivezerotwo
Adlai: thestringpuller: BIP65 article, link to CTransaction::nLockTime
thestringpuller: yes I see. does it really matter?
thestringpuller: just a uint32 variable I was trying to show
Adlai: nope
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't even think code as tight can still be made, much like you can't have a proper boot made... << oh but it can.
decimation: asciilifeform: on new hardware?
asciilifeform: decimation: on whatever hardware.
asciilifeform: decimation: another generation or three of 'this', and hardware will look like the same shitfest as os/sw stack is now. fortunately 'this' doesn't have even one generation left in it.
mircea_popescu: so we hope.
mircea_popescu: if they find fusion, it does.
decimation: 'this' being the current state of computing?
asciilifeform: if they find fusion, laser wars between flying machines.
asciilifeform: hopefully everything is destroyed.
thestringpuller: hmm. am I on qntra blacklist?
thestringpuller: @mircea_popescu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.0004271 = 26.2453 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: I want my pocket laser gun
asciilifeform: incidentally, for implications of working fusion, straight to:
asciilifeform: !s you and the atomic bomb
assbot: 8 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb
asciilifeform: applies just as readily here as it did in 1945 re: fission.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it dun has a blacklist
decimation: imagine 'future war' where your squad as a 'laser machine gun'. In order to take the next hill, you need to lay down suppressing fire. the laser machine gunner opens up, and the enemy doesn't notice
asciilifeform: qntra dead here.
decimation: qntra is dead, but trilmea just popped up again
asciilifeform: lol, laser suppressing fire
thestringpuller: guess east coast thing
asciilifeform: what next, laser musketry volley?
decimation: maybe he can screw 'pew pew pew'
thestringpuller: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
decimation: s/screw/scream/
decimation: I suspect that fusion-powered robots will be doing most of the fighting anyway
Adlai: asciilifeform: if you want to find when bitcoin started to have value, just look at when people began hoarding it: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/2881 suggests the april 2010 as the start of hoarding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17350 @ 0.00042279 = 7.3354 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: decimation: meatbags will still do 100% of the dying.
decimation: plus robot ninjas are expensive
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> what next, laser musketry volley? <<< srsly. what's this supression fire, like laser welding ?
mircea_popescu: Adlai what's this "start of hoarding" thing mean ?
decimation: I imagine there's going to have to be some kind of visible protocol, otherwise the enemy would simply be confused about what's going on
mircea_popescu: the first blocks mined are still unspent.
asciilifeform: the enemy can be reasonably certain of his own death.
asciilifeform: when it happens.
mircea_popescu: decimation if you could fire silent bullets you'd find loud ones because protocol ?
decimation: yeah, like full metal jackets
mircea_popescu: and wtf is "visible laser" anyway
Adlai: mircea_popescu: playing around with the magnitude of "valuable" in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922718
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:41:00; asciilifeform: because it is the only one which existed upon the earth before bitcoin was valuable!
mircea_popescu: not like military grade laser will be like in star trek
asciilifeform: visible laser << rayleigh scattering.
decimation: right, one that transmits somewhere in the visible spectrum (to humans)
asciilifeform: switch on a toy green laser in dark room.
Adlai: max paranoia = starting around april 2010, at least one tla began stockpiling coins
asciilifeform: switch on large far-ir laser - also visible (!) - heated air
decimation: I suspect the first 'military laser' will be infrared
mircea_popescu: decimation you're late. the first military laser IS co2, uv.
decimation: heh yeah good point
decimation: but that wasn't really a man-portable system
mircea_popescu: it woulkd be uv and uuv anyway. higher energy better focus less scatter.
asciilifeform: which 'military laser' ? there are 1000.
Adlai: well, short of satoshi acting in a tla-ish manner, perhaps due to belonging to a tla himself
mircea_popescu: ;;ud tla
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TLA | TLA is a three-letter-acronym for three-letter-acronyms. by uncle tom ... It always have been and will be Lucas and Peyton, TLA (True Love Always). by lp_tla ...
decimation: Something you could give to a grunt to replace his rifle
mircea_popescu: i doubt you will have man operated lasers anyway
mircea_popescu: it'd be 100% drones
asciilifeform: what the hell would be the point?
decimation: exactly
asciilifeform: i suppose it's hard to blow yer own brains out with a drone.
asciilifeform: although still doable.
decimation: or frag your lt
mircea_popescu: why hard ?
asciilifeform: incidentally, if 'cheap and compact source of infinite energy', the 'plasma rifle' from 'doom', etc. can exist.
decimation: actually this brings up a good point, why aren't 'silent guns' more popular in military circles
Adlai: "TLA is a three-letter-acronym for three-letter-acronyms." << i'd go as far as/cronyms/gencies/
mircea_popescu: decimation because they can't be made.
asciilifeform: ionized atmosphere with laser, pump current through
asciilifeform: a la 'jacob's ladder.
decimation: are you saying that you can't use a silencer and a sub-sonic round?
dub: lockheed are buildinf fusion batteries now
dub: wont be long
mircea_popescu: so they claim yeah.
asciilifeform: decimation: the actual 'silent pistol' does not use a gas silencer.
asciilifeform: nor is it entirely silent
mircea_popescu: i suppose the next logical bezzle step is a tesla-lockheed merger
asciilifeform: (mechanical noise from the action. the bullet still whistles. etc)
mircea_popescu: just think, the promise of the electric car married to the promise of the fusion battery
decimation: yeah I agree they aren't 100% silent, but the advantages of silence seem to be large
asciilifeform: that one.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> are you saying that you can't use a silencer and a sub-sonic round? << Range and terminal energy at the target become huge problems this way
asciilifeform: gas stays in.
mircea_popescu: decimation swat / town warfare teams use supressed weapons
mircea_popescu: mostly so they don't bleed from the ears.
decimation: I suppose the idea that the 'standard grunt' is snaking up on someone is unlikely
decimation: s/snaking/sneaking/
decimation: but snaking works too
thestringpuller: solid snake
asciilifeform: incidentally, if the magic fusor can be nudged into chain reaction, it's game over.
decimation: asciilifeform: what do you mean, like a fusion bomb?
asciilifeform: doesn't even matter if 99 in a hundred men who open theirs, die
asciilifeform: decimation: yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not hard to make it limited.
asciilifeform: 'Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to put an end
asciilifeform: to large-scale wars at the cost of prolonging indefinitely a ‘peace that is no peace’.'
asciilifeform: make it limited << lol
asciilifeform: what has been limited by the hand of man, can be un-limited.
Adlai: thestringpuller: overall though i liked the bip65 article, it was worded neutrally enough that it could almost be tagged 'News'
asciilifeform: unless the case is one of 'intrinsic' safety a la fissile mechanics
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform has the hand of man enabled the disabled cores in an intel chip ?
decimation: right, the 'fissile' bomb runs out of fissile material
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: give man a few days with ion beam workstation.
mircea_popescu: how do you add deuterium inside the core ? with an enema pump ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you sit down and think about it for a bit, you can figure out six different methods.
mircea_popescu: yeah, and ?
asciilifeform: 'there is no safe that can be kept in the robber's living room.'
mircea_popescu: i'd rather think about kim's butt.
mircea_popescu: so would 99 men in a 100
asciilifeform: aha but we just need the 1.
dub: kim dotcom?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, working but slowly http://pastebin.com/4XCDXVSi
mircea_popescu: well, let's ut it this way : the reason the state does not collapse in a tsunami of violence is not now nor was it ever historically that such would be physically impossible.
mircea_popescu: it is always that nobody can be bothered.
cazalla: well, qntra is intermittent for me
mircea_popescu: otherwise, see the experiences of the various members of the tsar's fambly with artisanal bombs
asciilifeform: what if herr frein spent his life contemplating how to rewire his fusor
asciilifeform: instead of marksmanship
mircea_popescu: dub no, the fat female kim. champagne assgirl.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this curren state will collapse regardless. not a technical, but a policital problem. it just sucks.
mircea_popescu: nothing can save it.
asciilifeform: right now it takes more than one man, however enthusiastic, working in his basement for twenty years, to level a city.
mircea_popescu: recall the case of the kid who built his own nuke
mircea_popescu: out of smoke detectors ?
asciilifeform: except he didn't
decimation: he just built a waste site
mircea_popescu: well, he didn't work for the full 20 years either.
asciilifeform: lovely legend, but fails kindergarten physics.
decimation: although thorium is a fissile material
mircea_popescu: the sad truth of the matter is that with the current state of manufacturing, i could build my own nuke. wouldn't even take a decade.
asciilifeform: at any rate, the operative boojum wouldn't be the demolition of a particular plot of real estate.
mircea_popescu: i can centrifuge my own uranium, there's plenty of places where it's directly exploitable etc.
asciilifeform: but a demonstration of 'with fiddybucks any discontented sod can now do it where he wants'
mircea_popescu: the fact that the iranians don't manage just shows how fucktarded htey are. it's by now a one man job.
thestringpuller: Adlai: i don't think it was tagged as news
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: use laser separation.
mircea_popescu: im not intending to lay out an actualrecipe here
mircea_popescu: just making the general point.
asciilifeform: 1/10000th the cost of conventional gas centrifuge.
asciilifeform: above is more or less the recipe
decimation: sorting out u235 from the other neutron spewing isotopes isn't trivial
asciilifeform: (u-235 and u-238 have different absorption spectra)
mircea_popescu: decimation the original bombs were'nt that classy.
mircea_popescu: they won a war
mircea_popescu: the much classier later versions won no war.
mircea_popescu: see what i mean ?
asciilifeform: actually iran tried to build laser separator. the men involved - died. and not of industrial accidents.
TheNewDeal: thats to be determined
asciilifeform: died of 'problems'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda what i mean by "inept iran"
asciilifeform: then they went on to the 'old classic' recipe, and made sure to run moar winblows.
asciilifeform: (literally)
mircea_popescu: state that can't build a pot is one thing. state that can't keep a secret however, deserves to die.
Adlai: !s feeling of power
Adlai: excellent
asciilifeform: state that can't keep a secret << incidentally, notice that no complete 'dump' for ru nuke of whatever variety ever hit the net.
cazalla: mircea_popescu: certainly not a top hat. <<< maybe akubra? nfi on top hats but they have a solid rep
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2014 18:26:21; gribble: THE FEELING OF POWER by Isaac Asimov Worlds of Science ...: <http://www.math.umn.edu/~rusin018/1271_Fall_2006/extra_1.pdf>; The Feeling of Power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power>; MathFiction: The Feeling of Power (Isaac Asimov) - Alex Kasman: <http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu/MATHFICT/mfview.php?callnumber=mf4>
mircea_popescu: cazalla i know specifically what im talking about, because the last looms capable of making the required felt were destroyed a decade ago as part of a family feud.
mircea_popescu: the world has physically lost the capacity to produce top hats.
mircea_popescu: to me this is much worse news than the extinction of whatever stupid fish or crap
decimation: asciilifeform: of course stalin's agents were all over the us bomb as it was being made
asciilifeform: aha like the u.s. hbomb tamper foam.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, sounds familiar, this story on trilema?
asciilifeform: some of us here, imho, shall live to see the felt brought back.
mircea_popescu: cazalla not sure, mebbe not.
cazalla: something to do with looms is, that i know
asciilifeform: ;;google fogbank
gribble: FOGBANK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOGBANK>; Fog Bank: Capitola's Funnest Bar & Grille: <http://www.the-fogbank.com/>; Jeffrey Lewis • FOGBANK: <http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1814/fogbank>
asciilifeform: ^ relevant
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41927 @ 0.00042729 = 17.915 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: oh for fucks sake
mircea_popescu: fucking idiot.
asciilifeform: exam - failed.
mircea_popescu: see, it's imbeciles like this that cause trouble. now the point will have to be carved out of some innocent women's skin that nobody gives a shit.
mircea_popescu: had he just pointed and laughed at the "offended" idiots we could have just moved on.
mircea_popescu: basically matt taylor is personally responsible for a few violent gangrrapes now.
mircea_popescu: we need to bully these autistic savants a whole of a lot more, can't be letting the libtards having all the fun.
decimation: yeah I don't get it, if your'e gonna wear a shirt with semi-naked women in front of an international audience, show some follow-through
asciilifeform: 'Knowledge can be lost. Sometimes this is perfectly reasonable: No one knows how to kill and skin a mastodon anymore, for obvious reasons. And cultures frequently lose knowledge as they evolve past it--you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could write a computer program on punch-cards today. But there is something worrisome about misplacing knowledge that is only a generation or two old. And this happens mor
asciilifeform: e often than you might think. ... ... Space enthusiasts say, 'If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we put a man on the moon?' "The answer, Simberg explains, is that we can't "because most of the people who did it are in their dotage or dead, and a lot of it was more art than science."'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im pretty sure i can still write on punch cards.
asciilifeform: not hard.
asciilifeform: bad example, not because of greybeards, but because of demented archaeologists like yours truly
asciilifeform: and i can hardly imagine a modern big-game hunter having any serious troubles with a mastodon.
asciilifeform: but i can sorta see the point he was trying to make.
mircea_popescu: i sorta can't.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00043661 = 19.7348 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: eh we just skinned a balloon, haven't we.
mircea_popescu: knowledge != technology.
decimation: asciilifeform: there's a good example of the 'art v. science' re: moon program here: http://eb-misfit.blogspot.com/2013/10/relighting-saturn-vs-f-1-rocket-engine.html?showComment=1381683061332#c1607749688683256926 "There were single welds on the engine that took all day to weld, by hand, and there were thousands of such welds. The engineers working on the new F1 copy say that theirs has less than 1/10th the parts of the original F1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6109 @ 0.00043769 = 2.6738 BTC [+]
decimation: and should be easily mass produced. "
mircea_popescu: i still know how to make a felt hat
mircea_popescu: doesn't mean the machines still exist.
decimation: each saturn rocket was basically a metal art peice
asciilifeform: decimation: this is not actually uncommon at the 'what is the factory made of' level in industry.
asciilifeform: ultimately, there is no factory that churns out pilot plants
mircea_popescu: used to. nowadays it's pretty rare.
asciilifeform: craftsmanship all the way down, after a certain point.
decimation: there's a point there
decimation: someone has to program the robots after all
asciilifeform: much of what makes civilization tick, is not available off the shelf, and the entire notion is nonsensical.
mircea_popescu: whosoever programs the robots doesn't have to do so with chewing gum however.
mircea_popescu: the fact that bitcoin .5.3 is full of spot welds is not a quality.
punkman: .notary status
punkman: notary status
notary: punkman: 1 pending deed | Last bundle 6 hours and 14 minutes ago | 1 unconfirmed bundle
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imagine if, e.g., the 'golden gate' bridge had been built by a retarded child. out of match sticks.
asciilifeform: and it were still in use.
punkman: speaking of shitty code, thing's stuck again
decimation: it seems to come down to a question of economics, it's generally cheaper to pay a master craftsman to labor over one item, but if one is building thousands it is worth the start-up cost of the robots
asciilifeform: decimation: except that none of this conceptually even applies to a computer program.
decimation: unfortunately no
decimation: one can imagine the software craftsman being aided by tools (likely of his own making)
decimation: but the idea of 'mass production software' is nonsensical
thestringpuller: !up fivezerotwo
mircea_popescu: this "ctrl-c at console" business is so... hm. primitive.
mircea_popescu: in the positive sense of that term.
asciilifeform: like a death certificate that reads 'stopped breathing'
mircea_popescu: nah, more like a hmm....
punkman: so electrum is blocking forever when I try to send a tx, then the tx sending thread gets stuck
mircea_popescu: nah, more like a retarded athlete who, after a majorly incredible game where his team won very closely or lost very closely is like
mircea_popescu: "well... we lost"
mircea_popescu: myeah dude.
thestringpuller: $conference
empyex: thestringpuller: Next conference starts in 5 months and 2 days. Estimated cost today: 3.31292039 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ )
asciilifeform: re: top hats: i vaguely recall that the planet lost the capacity to make toothpicks for a few months at some point in '09 (?)
asciilifeform: chicom firm cornered the market, the story went, to the point of total monopoly - then went bust
RagnarDanneskjol: punkman i think eventually you're gonna ahve to ditch electrum and run a daemon - these issues are somewhat known and why deedbot 1.0 replaced it w/ api
asciilifeform: perhaps i dreamed all of this.
punkman: RagnarDanneskjol: oh deedbot1.0 tried to use electrum?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Clam one of yours?
RagnarDanneskjol: went through several versions
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sorry ?
RagnarDanneskjol: the last one actually works perfectly fine - just was on unsecure server
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: From the gif where it did the salt licking
punkman: RagnarDanneskjol: well it didn't actually verify deeds
RagnarDanneskjol: how's that?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ah no, bounty of teh internets.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. salt.
asciilifeform wanders off to consider this.
fivezerotwo: thanks thestringpuller
mircea_popescu: "This muddle finally hurts those following in the researcher's path. Long after he has his Ph.D. or his tenure, inquiring students will be put off by the document he has left behind. He seems to have solved everything already, so the report says, yet there is no tangible evidence of it besides the report itself."
mircea_popescu: oh brother...
mircea_popescu: this is actually the fundamental problem with western academia. the self-licking icecreamcones problem is just a convenient frosting over this, but the point remains that even should that matter be solved, as it trivially would be solved - by say a stalin, which is always cheap
mircea_popescu: nevertheless academia would STILL be fundamentally broken to the point of complete dysfunction.
RagnarDanneskjol: [Founding Digital Currency on Secure Computation]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23272 @ 0.00042858 = 9.9739 BTC [-]
cazalla: RagnarDanneskjol, meh not promoting something that thinks "When a user wants to create an address, the user provides her identity to an IVS. The IVS checks that the provided identity is the identity of a real person who can be located and be accountable if illegal activity is detected, similar to existing Bitcoin payment systems such as Coinbase." is a good idea
RagnarDanneskjol: they have some lame and some rather novel ideas in there
Adlai: you wouldn't say that militaries are still churning out pilot plants, but the automation/control balance of piloting itself has shifted?
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 07:32:47; asciilifeform: ultimately, there is no factory that churns out pilot plants
RagnarDanneskjol: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36210 @ 0.00042725 = 15.4707 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23040 @ 0.00042362 = 9.7602 BTC [-]
punkman: RagnarDanneskjol: similar thingie https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11395
Vexual: the sd one is cool, i dont undertand the other thing
Vexual: duodenum?
Vexual: oh yes, just different form factors
Vexual: such is life
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "It appears he's list 5 billion since June 30th" << lost ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Probably? Where to fix?
mircea_popescu: your article re buffet
assbot: Buffet Problems | Bingo Blog
BingoBoingo: Ty, fixed
mircea_popescu: and with that, it is time for ass!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.00043676 = 21.3576 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14691 @ 0.00043717 = 6.4225 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46809 @ 0.00043868 = 20.5342 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15928 @ 0.00044006 = 7.0093 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: <mircea_popescu> <undata> if I were russia, I'd wait for the US to go balls deep into the middle east again, and then I'd grab some of the north pole's oil, <<< obviously, you're not russia. <<< dat unfamilairity with arctic sovereignty claims
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7212 @ 0.00043657 = 3.1485 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 1000 @ 0.0012 = 1.2 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 14 @ 0.08636714 = 1.2091 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31992 @ 0.00043573 = 13.9399 BTC [-]
assbot: SeansOutpost comments on An open letter to Jason King of Sean's Outpost
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79000 @ 0.0004225 = 33.3775 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: :00000000
nubbins`: i never got the "feed the homeless in this guy's city instead of in your own city" thing
nubbins`: LOOK AT ME I'M DONATING TO SEAN'S OUTPOST
nubbins`: THERE ARE NO HUNGRY PEOPLE WHERE I LIVE
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2QX2KNA.txt )
BingoBoingo: Seriously though you feed the homeless in someone else's city so they all go there. Pied Piper and shit.
nubbins`: "go"
nubbins`: i live on an island, buddy
nubbins`: nearest "city" is 20k people a 10 hour drive away
nubbins`: anyway, always suspected that guy
nubbins`: Easy Feel-Goods for sale, only $1.25
BingoBoingo: No, easy feel goods are $75 at the massage parlor down by the strip club
xanthyos: http://i.gyazo.com/970002ace57462fba98546820653d316.png << look at the progress bar on an electronic transaction initiated two full days ago. obsolescence.
xanthyos: so coinbase gets 4 full days to abort my purchase, which they will, if the prices goes up, and they won't if it levels or drops. with btc market volatility they have a sure thing
xanthyos: business days, so essentially a full week
xanthyos: using the customer's assumption that banking is a slow process (2 business days) and doubling that hoping they won't notice just to extend their opportunity to abort a sale that's not in their favor
mats_cd03: 08:56:40 <+BingoBoingo> Seriously though you feed the homeless in someone else's city so they all go there. Pied Piper and shit. << aka San Francisco
xanthyos: actually liberal "utopias" like sf have very little accomodations for the poor
xanthyos: as someone who's been homeless i've found it much easier to survive in backwoods towns in minnesota where people are poorer and not politicized
xanthyos: california is a scam state and hollywood has used its media to convince the world that it doesn't suck there, but it really does
mats_cd03: sure. there are still hills of homeless in SF, despite billions spent trying to fix it
xanthyos: SF spends its billions laying asphalt for zig-zaggy roads on their hills, not on the homeless
xanthyos: hills
mats_cd03: "The city spends $165 million a year on homeless services, about half of which funds supportive housing. That’s one of the highest levels of per-capita spending on homelessness of any city in the nation, said Philip Mangano, who served as the nation’s homeless czar under President Bush."
mats_cd03: "... the nation's homeless czar" << lol
xanthyos: so inefficient
xanthyos: someone should take a box cutter to nancy pelosi's plastic mask
The20YearIRCloud: and yet their homelessness problem is still one of the worst in the country
nubbins`: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:fa7a9bfb7a0cda9a3b7302dd46bf9392bd9f7b87f41cecfed6437ddb
nubbins`: i mean.
assbot: Stephen Harper at G20 tells Vladimir Putin to 'get out of Ukraine' - World - CBC News
nubbins`: curious to see what a .ru article about this says :D
nubbins`: "According to MacDonald, Putin did not respond positively. He didn't provide further details."
jurov: ohmy, dat log
jurov: btw, what else can putin do? taking care of the nation is not capable of enacting western definition of lawful order
jurov: despite generations of geletical pool cleansing
jurov: *genetical
jurov: try to go and conquer
jurov: nothing alse make sense
jurov: *nothing else makes sense
pete_dushenski: so coinbase scored another $50 mn
pete_dushenski: also, scoopbot be borkt so...
nubbins`: cast iron 4 life
pete_dushenski: and no assbot either eh
nubbins`: the guy who runs javaranch got me into cast iron
nubbins`: flaxseed oil!
assbot: Log In - The New York Times
pete_dushenski: incompetence is just so adorable!
pete_dushenski: assbot is too cool for contravex ?
pete_dushenski: fucking bot
assbot: Tamerlane's Thoughts: Assad's 31 forms of torture
nubbins`: jurov / urovj i wait for my oil to smoke before putting food in the pan :/
nubbins`: wtf am i supposed to do now!
jurov: repent!
nubbins`: i won't know when the pan is hot enough!
assbot: How To: Cast Iron Skillet Non-Stick and Lasts a Lifetime
jurov: when cooking with olive oil, i can say by smell it's right temp
pete_dushenski: "the crews that maintain the nation’s 450 intercontinental ballistic missiles had only a single wrench that could attach the nuclear warheads. “They started FedExing the one tool” to three bases spread across the country"
pete_dushenski: that usg is less threatening by the day i tell you
nubbins`: i actually use viscosity as a guide leading up to the smoke point
nubbins`: this linseed thing is a neat idea tho. my 9" cast iron could use a fresh start
nubbins`: it's rough-bottomed, tho, not sure if it's worth such special treatment just ye
asciilifeform: jurov: mr p's response to australia >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lenta.html
assbot: lenta
jurov: so why the separatists were so eager to claim it?
asciilifeform: jurov: which ones and where?
asciilifeform: jurov: first i hear of such
assbot: Ukraine Separatist Social Media Site Claims Plane Downing
asciilifeform: jurov: afaik, nazi fake.
jurov: afaik, RT fake
asciilifeform: jurov: this is interestingly reminiscent of orwell's piece on the spanish war.
asciilifeform: jurov: do you remember it ?
jurov: no
jurov: when RT invites amir taaaki as bitcoin expert, it's clear what they are up to
jurov: but when they pull some "dutch expert" it's suddent sacrosanct truth
jurov: *suddenly
asciilifeform did not endorse rt as truth machine. but notes that, so far, usa has not denied authenticity of the smoking gun.
jurov: nor has russia denied strelkov's boasts
asciilifeform: jurov: the pronouncement that he lacked the necessary rocket is not a denial ?
jurov: BUK was the name of the rocket, russians have it and the border is non-existing
assbot: BUK missile launcher shown in Russian separatist stronghold before MH17 crash | Daily Mail Online
jurov: ^ photos of it allegedly operating at the site
jurov: dunno we ever solve this here, it's clear as mud
asciilifeform: the one piece of 'lack of gun' was that a launch is visible and audible for 40km or so around
asciilifeform: and no one, afaik, has fessed up to noticing one.
jurov: how are they so certain it's urk fighter?
jurov: i can easily see russians doing it and placing buk in there as diversion
assbot: George Orwell: Looking back on the Spanish War
BingoBoingo: Fuck it. The Greys did MH-17
asciilifeform: 'I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, ‘History stopped in 1936’, at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, n
asciilifeform: ot even the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellec
asciilifeform: tuals building emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines’.'
BingoBoingo: It's those Alien provacateurs
pete_dushenski: can anyone remember the title of that trilema article where mircea_popescu discloses how much he sold that 5% chunk of mpex for?
pete_dushenski: then number $7mn is stuck in my mind but i can't dig up the article to confirm
pete_dushenski has been reading lots of old trilema articles about the early mpex days
pete_dushenski: it's nothing short of incredible to see just how tame mp reads then as opposed to now
pete_dushenski: "I am by no means convinced it is even correct, but merely the suggestion of it has the sort of breathtaking effect sudden abstraction gives. The reason I’m publishing all this is, of course, that I’m interested to hear what others think. Fill me in below."
pete_dushenski: modesty the likes of which would shock a johnny come lately reader
assbot: Hey VCs, where's the $1.5mn funding for nanotube's WoT ? http://t.co/gdmiYpx1FA
jurov: nonotube doesn't want to join bezzlatron?
pete_dushenski: mebbe he does
ben_vulpes: note to self: next time compress the blockchain *before* copying.
pete_dushenski: hard to imagine anyone legimitately asking him
pete_dushenski: https://imgur.com/6HC0yeM << trilema credits: 4 and still no worky!
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
ben_vulpes: what would he need the money for, pete_dushenski? embedding contracts in the blockchain?
ben_vulpes: give up, web technology will kill your children.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes a house with a pool ?
pete_dushenski: i'd personally be quite interested to see what nanotube would do if given a free $1.5mn
ben_vulpes: kinda dodges the question of why would vcs put capital into it.
ben_vulpes: here's my pipedream shartup
ben_vulpes: pretend there's something smart
ben_vulpes: wrap gpg
ben_vulpes: end passwords
ben_vulpes: it doesn't even have a profit model!
ben_vulpes: what could go wrong!?
nubbins`: CIS installed in epson printer. print a file. epson says "it is almost time to replace ink cartridges"
nubbins`: NICE TRY
ben_vulpes: piped tar into curl
ben_vulpes: exhausted all memory
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's an 'end password' ?
ben_vulpes: end is a verb in this context.
nubbins`: google end
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do you have in mind?
ben_vulpes: token decryption.
asciilifeform: gribble-login for everything?
ben_vulpes: 's the only way.
asciilifeform: why does this need money ?
ben_vulpes: because i need a shartup!
asciilifeform: ahaha lol
ben_vulpes: gotta hire sales people
ben_vulpes: rent an office
ben_vulpes: flip the ponzi a few times
asciilifeform thought ben_vulpes already did something of the kind at day job
ben_vulpes: what, run a ponzi?
asciilifeform: not necessarily
asciilifeform: but, some sort of firm
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/374TEEE.txt )
nubbins`: !b 6
ben_vulpes: yes i have a thing
nubbins`: !gettrust assbot Anduck
nubbins`: i mean.
nubbins`: ;;gettrust assbot Anduck
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Anduck!~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 5 via 5 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Anduck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Anduck | Rated since: Tue May 8 11:28:43 2012
ben_vulpes: but it's kind of an estes scale thing, and i want a giant tower of hydrocarbons atop which to ride out of this gravity well.
nubbins`: !up Anduck
nubbins`: Anduck, you have L2 trust w/ assbot so you can take advantage of deed system
assbot: Trust system - users with most trust list trust
ben_vulpes: http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ << not actually a thing?
assbot: #bitcoin-assets blog posts
ben_vulpes: hm nm.
assbot: Forum finances
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes i want a giant tower of hydrocarbons << for some reason i didn't even think you had a car
pete_dushenski: "Taxes and bitcoin, what is this sorcery"
pete_dushenski: heya punkman how goes the punkbot ?
punkman: notary status
notary: punkman: No pending deeds | Last bundle 9 hours and 16 minutes ago
punkman: punkbot balance
notary: punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.06251 BTC (0.0 unconfirmed), enough for 568 more bundles.
punkman: well in case someone forgets, both work
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: oh i own one. rarely use it though.
ben_vulpes: preferring to walk and bike.
pete_dushenski: ;;rate punkman 1 maker of notary bot for #b-a deeds
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user punkman has been recorded.
ben_vulpes: but the things that one can do with a car don't really hold a candle to those that can be done with large rockets.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes a but of course
ben_vulpes: cars don't fly.
pete_dushenski: anymore than bricks
ben_vulpes: planes don't escape the gravity well.
ben_vulpes: ('cept maybe the skylon)
ben_vulpes: adios pete_dushenski, see you another day.
pete_dushenski: meh gravity well is 75% in your own noodle
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes cheers mate
assbot: Next for DARPA: ‘Autocomplete’ for programmers
asciilifeform: autocomplete << lol!
assbot: Auto-Complete - An Intelligent auto-completion extension for Emacs
asciilifeform: or even microshit's
asciilifeform: am i missing something?
asciilifeform: or was that article stolen from 'the onion' ?
assbot: Let’s Cut To The Chase, Is La Serenissima A Cult? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
asciilifeform: i somehow missed this.
asciilifeform: what was his project (mentioned in the comment) ?
asciilifeform: incidentally - are there other 'retired' #b-a folks?
asciilifeform: is there, somewhere, a smoky bar where they down hard drinks and tell anyone who'll listen how 'it was all a sham11!1!' ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform haven't seen thickasthieves in a while either...
asciilifeform: ;;seen thickasthieves
gribble: thickasthieves was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 5 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <ThickAsThieves> but you da boss
nubbins`: he hasn't been around as much since he stopped with xbond, neobee, etc
nubbins`: i guess there's no gems left to push 8)
TheNewDeal: is evorhees considered a retired #b-a member?
asciilifeform: not being the shrink for either of these folks, i can't say with certainty, but do have a hypothesis:
asciilifeform: some people don't react well to a (perceived) collapse of fantasy of escape from gravity well.
asciilifeform: this may also explain the disappearance of moiety and a few other folks.
nubbins`: iow, "gentlemen, we shall not be the future elite"?
asciilifeform: not precisely
asciilifeform: they, i suspect, reach a point of thinking 'i can't eat hope'
nubbins`: but they can sure as shit eat crow :D
assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive
asciilifeform: ^ naggum on the subject
asciilifeform: 'The whole idea that anything can be so "shared" as to have no value in itself is not a problem if the rest of the world ensures that nobody _is_ starving or needing money. For young people who have parents who pay for them or student grants or loans and basically have yet to figure out that it costs a hell of a lot of money to live in a highly advanced society, this is not such a bad idea. Grow up, graduate,
asciilifeform: marry, start a family, buy a house, have an accident, get seriously ill for a while, or a number of other very expensive things people actually do all the time, and the value of your work starts to get very real and concrete to you, at which point giving away things to be "nice" to some "community" which turns out not to be "nice" _enough_ in return that you will actually stay alive, is no longer an option. Al
asciilifeform: l of this "code sharing" is an economic surplus phenomenon. It works only when none of the people involved in it are in any form of need. As soon as the need arises, a lot of people discover that it has cost them real money to work for the community and they reap very little benefit from it, because they are sharing value-less services and getting value out of something that people take for granted is hard to
asciilifeform: impossible.'
asciilifeform: the funny part is that nobody quit, e.g., a model airplane club, because they realize that it will not make them rich.
asciilifeform: it is precisely the existence of 'success stories' in #b-a that creates the problem (if you will) of nonzero expectations.
nubbins`: there are success stories in here? o.O
TheNewDeal: if Mp wee #1, voorhees was #2, who would you say is number 3 in the success story lineup?
nubbins`: lel, i kid.
TheNewDeal: just curious - I'm capable of formatting my own opinions, just want to see how they measure up to others
nubbins`: probably tat, he got rich as fuck
TheNewDeal: but he was mostly riding the coattails, no?
nubbins`: his coins aren't colored as such
TheNewDeal: didn't he run a passthrough that was basically just an additional surcharge passthrough?
nubbins`: several of them
nubbins`: doesn't the corner store just buy flats of pepsi from costco?
TheNewDeal: I don't really consider the owner rich
TheNewDeal: you know?
nubbins`: he had what, two AM passthrus, the SMG passthru, maybe three neobee passthrus?
nubbins`: TheNewDeal sure, but if the owner didn't have to buy a store and now drives around in an escalade...
TheNewDeal: you could call bitcoin harware resellers successful
TheNewDeal: and I'm sure there are some that have made a pretty penny
nubbins`: sure, but in here?
TheNewDeal: but the idea is that it's sustainable
nubbins`: what's success mean in this context anyway? got in early?
nubbins`: in that sense, mp is successful, but so is goat
asciilifeform: 'successful' i'd propose, would be in this context, folks who once had to prostitute themselves for fiat who no longer must, on account of something they worked on in collaboration with the people here.
nubbins`: that's workable
nubbins`: successful as a measure of percent exit from fiat
asciilifeform: well, exit from wage labour
TheNewDeal: ding ding ding
nubbins`: implying wage labour remunerated in btc doesn't fit?
nubbins`: say, a blockchain.info employee
TheNewDeal: correct
TheNewDeal: if they're making peas
nubbins`: makes sense
TheNewDeal: I can just as easily be a fry cook at mcdonalds and change my $100 monthly profits to btc
asciilifeform: i'd imagine i'm not the only one who considers 'success' as implying a total exit from 'don't work a day - don't eat a day'
nubbins`: surely not
nubbins`: worth noting that this definition relies on flow in as well as out
asciilifeform: wage labour is wage labour, whether for usd, btc, or gold dubloons
asciilifeform: example,
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2014 19:47:07; asciilifeform: getting back to the crapware: most instances you're dealing with a case of 'work 12 hrs. a day to make minim. wage while you sleep.'
nubbins`: "great high pay job" 2 hour highway drive each direction, daily
nubbins`: anyway, i guess under these criteria i'd be considered a success, although i'm admittedly raising an eyebrow myself over this
TheNewDeal: Was working up in Canada a few weeks ago. Business owner claimed that everyone in Canada that wanted to work had a job
nubbins`: tbf a significant portion of my income still (a) is received in fiat and (b) doesn't come from this sphere
asciilifeform: nubbins`: let's say you wanted to close your printery and spend the rest of your days as a taleb-like scholarly man of leisure.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal ehhhhhhhh yes and no.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: could you?
TheNewDeal: did not feel the need to argue the point that no on in their right mind wants to stock shelves at the Canadian superstore at 2am
nubbins`: asciilifeform yeah, fair enough. not quite.
nubbins`: in the next half-decade or so, sure
asciilifeform: nubbins`: that was the 'success' i was theorizing about people being disappointed in not having.
nubbins`: looks pretty naked laid out like that, huh
asciilifeform: i can't claim to have a handle on what ails pankkake et. al.
asciilifeform: this is merely the picture seen through my own 'shit-coloured glasses.'
asciilifeform: i conjecture that it's all a problem of expectations.
nubbins`: i figured it was a combination of the rose tint coming off his glasses, and getting tired of the bellicose rhetoric
asciilifeform: i, for instance, expect to end up slowly dismembered in a cia dungeon.
asciilifeform: every day that this has not yet taken place, i am pleasantly surprised.
TheNewDeal: I don't see pankakke's argument considering dumb and evil people in bitcoin
TheNewDeal: isn't the same thing in the bezzle economy?
nubbins`: sure, it's just concentrated more here
nubbins`: bitcoin is a rube funnel
asciilifeform: he may be rehashing an argument made, among other places, in my 'microscope hammer' article.
nubbins`: all these starry-eyeds wandering into a lion's den thinking it's the just the coolest thing
TheNewDeal: linky ascii?
nubbins`: and holy shit you can buy stocks i've always wanted to etc
nubbins`: omg doadj-coin etc
assbot: Loper OS » Bitcoin, or How to Hammer in Nails with a Microscope.
TheNewDeal: gracias
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: did yo ever watch dexter's lab
asciilifeform: possibly once, on 'youtube'
asciilifeform: don't recall precisely what.
asciilifeform: it was mentioned here on at least one occasion
TheNewDeal: ahhh I've read that one before. On a similar note - does that empty block miner still persist? Haven't seen organofcorti mention it
TheNewDeal: assbots back, simply amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
mircea_popescu: hey there buttboy!
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you know, assbot totally should respond to buttboy
assbot: Return-path: <dd4bc@outlook.com> Envelope-to: * Delivery-date: Sat, 15 Nov 201 - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: and jurov thought HE had issues with whitespace via email. check out this kiddie, 100+ 0x20s
Anduck: .deed
punkbot: Anduck: (deed [url]) -- search [url] for signed deeds and queue them.
Anduck: .help deed
punkbot: Anduck: (deed [url]) -- search [url] for signed deeds and queue them.
Anduck: fine, fine. dont help me damn ass bot
mircea_popescu: punkman no moar notary ?
mircea_popescu: Anduck one sec ill fish out an example for you.
Anduck: mircea_popescu: does it cost to use deed service?
mircea_popescu: not yet./
mircea_popescu: donation powered so far.
Anduck: alright
Anduck: sounds pretty good as in it doesn't shit the chain
Anduck: at least compared to the others...
mircea_popescu: Anduck 15-11-2014 01:09:45 <nubbins`> .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=eJhsu4D5 << like so.
Anduck: thx
mircea_popescu: yeah it's well designed.
Anduck: well, who holds the database?
Anduck: is it decentralized? it doesnt have to be but it'd be great if it was
mircea_popescu: you can dld your own copy. otherwise, punkman is maintaining the deedbot service.
Anduck: remember the link for copy?
Anduck: i checked deeds site, didnt even see an api
mircea_popescu: it doesn't have an api, but you can get json/rss iirc.
Anduck: mm
Anduck: true
mircea_popescu: punkman i forget, how does one download the bundles ?
punkman: there are links bottom of bundle page
assbot: extempore/deedbundler · GitHub
mircea_popescu: nubbins` THERE ARE NO HUNGRY PEOPLE WHERE I LIVE << lawl.
mircea_popescu: o there you are.
mircea_popescu: so wha' happened to notary ? and can the main address: 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny | contact: punkman@freenode get a count of deeds added in the middle ?
punkman: mircea_popescu: it disconnected and had to use alt name, guess I should set it up to revert to notary
mircea_popescu: xanthyos: so coinbase gets 4 full days to abort my purchase, which they will, if the prices goes up, and they won't if it levels or drops. with btc market volatility they have a sure thing <<< not really, because a) there's not so many people ike you, actually using them and b) the respective 0.2 bitcents or w/e add to about enough to buy me a steak.
punkbot: Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: xanthyos: california is a scam state and hollywood has used its media to convince the world that it doesn't suck there, but it really does <<< this is by design. cute but stupid 17 yo chick from minesota goes to cali to be rich and famous, has to confront the unexpected situation where being homeless there sucks so as to eagerly overcome her education and suck cock.
Anduck: hmm:(
punkbot: Anduck: Error: 'add' is not a valid http url.
mircea_popescu: if she knew about the knife she perobably wouldn't run there.
mircea_popescu: Anduck no add in the examplke i gave you
Anduck: mircea_popescu: as you saw, i tried without first
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot anduck
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Anduck!~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck. Trust relationship from user assbot to user anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 5 via 5 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=anduck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=anduck | Rated since: Tue May 8 11:28:43 2012
mircea_popescu: o.O did you find a bug ?
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, This is deeds.bitcoin-a - Pastebin.com
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: it verifies
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: and the fingerprint matches anduck's
mircea_popescu: nubbins` yup, and it verifies to his correct key.
mircea_popescu: Anduck we thank you for your test, ye cursed by the gods :)
nubbins`: yeah, interesting.
punkman: yeah good signature indeed, hmm
mircea_popescu: and if anyone wonders wtf, i tried to see what happens if i add a newline at the end.
mircea_popescu: but no dice.
punkbot: nubbins`: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: something to do with your key or your relationship to someone
nubbins`: punkbot checks trust to assbot?
mircea_popescu: by spec it should.
mircea_popescu: but it objects that the MESSAGE is invalid.
nubbins`: ehh that's just what the error says
Anduck: well
Anduck: my educated guess: newlines problem
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: i won't know when the pan is hot enough! << look at the oil.
mircea_popescu: eventually you will be able to tell, just by looking
mircea_popescu: (your eye does see ir. you just don't mentally see it, but you do see it.
nubbins`: yeah i wait for first wisps of smoke now, but viscosity is a good judge
mircea_popescu: that entire "can't distinguish hot glass from plain glass is bunk. you can, just need to look at it)
nubbins`: as well
nubbins`: Anduck i'm not so sure
nubbins`: i copy/pasted your deed text to my machine, signed it, and it worked
mircea_popescu: wow that's interesting huh
nubbins`: now tbf copypasta has its own newline quirks i'm sure
nubbins`: but i think punkman covered all bases w.r.t. newlines
nubbins`: Anduck try signing a single line of text
punkman: only explanation is the bot doesn't have your key
nubbins`: how does the bot get keys
punkman: fetches from sks
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: no. the signature block fucks up something
mircea_popescu: maybe something as idiotic as "one line starts with slash" or w/e.
nubbins`: oh, i just took his original text, not the block
nubbins`: ineresting
nubbins`: Anduck i guess try signing any other message and submitting it
punkman: mircea_popescu: I think problem with that is that it stops at nested END PGP SIGNATURE, instead of the outer one
punkman: but I remember testing that case
nubbins`: sounds like a regex fix
punkman: guess I didn't
nubbins`: END PGP SIGNATURE-----\n$ or smth
nubbins` always has to look that stuff up
mircea_popescu: nubbins` no lol, cuz no \n in spec :D
mircea_popescu: punkman it stops at the commented out one ?
mircea_popescu: ye - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ?
punkman: yeah, I know how to fix that
punkman: but why the hell is Anduck's key missing
punkman: should have been there when I bootstrapped pubring
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESS - Pastebin.com
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: jurov: when cooking with olive oil, i can say by smell it's right temp << also butter yeah.
nubbins`: oops
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: ok yep nesting breaks
nubbins`: still doesnt explain anduck's weirdness
Anduck: ._.
joecool: prob threw finncrypt at it
joecool: breaks everything
nubbins`: Anduck try another deed, would be nice to see if that was a problem with your key or your deed
Anduck: ok
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
punkbot: Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
Anduck: deed ?!??
Anduck: do i need to have this same text somewhere else
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: haha it's the forward slash at the start of a new line.
mircea_popescu: my intuition!111
Anduck: heh
Anduck: confirm it.
mircea_popescu: now we throw eggs at punkman :D
nubbins`: Anduck you could probably just add a whitespace char to your original text, sign it, it'll work
mircea_popescu: nubbins` clearsign doesn't produce the same signature on the same text btw.
Anduck: let's see
nubbins`: o no?
nubbins`: well til
mircea_popescu: think about it.
mircea_popescu: if it did, your messages would be brittle.
nubbins`: i'm still only functionally literate wrt pgp
mircea_popescu: jurov: when RT invites amir taaaki as bitcoin expert, it's clear what they are up to, but when they pull some "dutch expert" it's suddent sacrosanct truth <<< lol he got you there asciilifeform
punkbot: Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: bwhahaha
Anduck: i guess
Anduck: hmm..
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
Anduck: .deed anduck.net/ducktest.txt
punkbot: Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: looks like it's expecting a very limited charset for that first char
mircea_popescu: apparently.
punkman: I think I may have borked permissions of gpg dir just now
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: WHAT.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: can anyone remember the title of that trilema article where mircea_popescu discloses how much he sold that 5% chunk of mpex for? << http://trilema.com/2013/smpoe-takes-strategic-investor/ ?
assbot: S.MPOE takes strategic investor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: !up supay
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: modesty the likes of which would shock a johnny come lately reader << But within that basic framework there are many subtle variations, only discernable to an acute observer, that reflect the many moods, the many shades, the many sides of MP!
mircea_popescu: (this is morning mist)
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski:"where's the $1.5mn funding for nanotube's WoT" << perhaps you don';t understand what "a protocol for decentralized and password-less authentication" means.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: (CIS = http://imgur.com/5uggnbK ) <<< lawl.
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
assbot: Pastebin.com Unknown Paste ID
punkbot: punkman: Error fetching URL: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JZQ0PkwU (HTTP Error 404: Not Found)
punkbot: punkman: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
mircea_popescu: | 34 | Gavin Andresen | 0 | << not in forum trust list ; | 33 | OgNasty | 1 | << in forum default trust list.
punkman: yeah your key was missing for some reason
mircea_popescu: so much lulz.
punkbot: mircea_popescu: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: dupe)
mircea_popescu: so... wait.
punkbot: mircea_popescu: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: so basically only http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW is still weird.
punkman: will put that on todo list
mircea_popescu: - Expenses: 1505 (1257 Slickage, the rest mostly mods) << according to theymos, tardstalk has spent half a million dollars to one million this year.
punkman: on another message he says he's spent $350k on Slickage
assbot: LEAKED - Latest status on forum software
mircea_popescu: what's slickage ?
punkman: some web developers
mircea_popescu: someone paid 350k to "web developers" ?
mircea_popescu: ;;rated theymos
gribble: You have not yet rated user theymos
punkman: ;;rate thermos -5
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate theymos -10 defrauded the tardstalk community by throwing ~half a million dollars worth of BTC at some obscure service provider for kickbacks. a lenghty history of fraudulent behaviour, http://trilema.com/2012/scammer-tag-nefario-theymos-others-known-and-unknown/
assbot: Scammer tag : Nefario, theymos, others known and unknown pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -10 for user theymos has been recorded.
punkman: well don't know if that quote is real
punkman: but either way
mircea_popescu: he does mention the name in his "report"
mircea_popescu: http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/slickage-studios << this thing. it never had 10k incoming in its lifetime.
assbot: Slickage Studios | CrunchBase
punkman: "let's make our own forum software, compete with SMF"
punkman: in node.js no less
mircea_popescu: unlike the SEC, MP actually is tough on fraud.
mircea_popescu waves @maryjo
jurov: in node? hahahahaha
mircea_popescu: jurov you don't understand how the nodes work!
assbot: slickage/epochtalk · GitHub
jurov: i'm laughing because i do understand a bit
punkman: seems no commits since June
mircea_popescu: 2 contributors << lol.
jurov looks forward to Math.random pwnage
mircea_popescu: so basically the 1-10 man dev studio is exactly one guy.
assbot: slickage/adness · GitHub
assbot: slickage/baron · GitHub
punkman: oh my bad they are still developing https://github.com/epochtalk/core
assbot: epochtalk/core · GitHub
mircea_popescu: adding core to something makes it better
mircea_popescu: like, punk was dead, but then punkcore!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: what was his project (mentioned in the comment) ? <<< you perhaps recall i said at conference i want two things made, an advertising service and a jobs board. we had some initial discussions about it, we ran into a bunch of conceptual difficulties about how exactly to handle the job descriptions/contractual enforcement, which turned out a much more complex task than originally imagined, last was "we
mircea_popescu: we'll have to think about this some more" and it's the last i heard from him on the topic. or in general, really. that was back in may.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the job board still needs to be made because this system where i drop something in chat and someone either happens to be here or happens to see it in logs is perhaps not optimal.
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, it does provide proper incentive for noobs to read the thing, much to their benefit even if "they don't want to, because they know better", so whatevs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: is there, somewhere, a smoky bar where they down hard drinks and tell anyone who'll listen how 'it was all a sham11!1!' ? << not afaik, tho i'd like to have a hard drink myself. tho i imagine that'd ruin it huh.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: this may also explain the disappearance of moiety and a few other folks. <<< it's not a bad theory in any sense. got any policy proposals based on it ?
punkman: a bunch of conceptual difficulties about how exactly to handle the job descriptions/contractual enforcement << interesting in hearing some of those
punkman: *interested
mircea_popescu: punkman you familiar with the problems surrounding bitbet bets resolution ?
mircea_popescu: they [used to] spill out into here with some regularity.
punkman: well some of them at least
mircea_popescu: right. what do words "mean" ? and especially, what do contracts OBVIOUSLY mean.
mircea_popescu: this is not a trivial problem in any sense : http://trilema.com/2013/our-emperor-deliver-us/
assbot: Our Emperor, deliver us. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: "In support of their argument that the Agreement preserves liability only for malicious breaches, defendants argue that the word “willful” would be unnecessary unless it meant “malicious.” There is no reason to limit liability to breaches that are intentional, they claim, because any breach of this Agreement would be intentional—”heavily counseled parties to mega-mergers do not breach merger agreements out
mircea_popescu: of inadvertence, negligence, or mistake.” As a factual matter, this claim is questionable. It could just as well be said that heavily counseled parties to mega-mergers do not sign merger agreements containing glaringly ambiguous terms that lead to avoidable litigation—but here we are."
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: does anyone with experience with either gentoo or funtoo care to share their impression(s) of the projects? I'm interested in which group of devs is more intelligent, sane, etc.
Anduck: punkman: what was the error?
mircea_popescu: gentoo is well established, and currently my recommendation for noobs looking at linux.
punkman: Anduck: didn't have your key for some reason
mircea_popescu: Anduck therewas also an unrelated issue discovered, regarding first character on a line, so tyvm.
punkman: no slash character theory was silly
punkman: but problem with nested sigs
mircea_popescu: punkman no, because it failed on the test bundle above.
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 20:12:52; punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: meh wait, wrong one.
mircea_popescu: ah yes right you are, nm.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: The whole idea that anything can be so "shared" as to have no value in itself is not a problem if the rest of the world ensures that nobody _is_ starving or needing money. <<< this is nonsense anyway. money is always needed, this is a scaling problem. average rat living in a hole in the middle east linking his pretenses to humanity to his possesion of an old cellphone someone lost may think ben_vulpes' l
mircea_popescu: ife is the end of want, having a wife and a house in the amerca!!!
mircea_popescu: however, ben himself wants a tower of hydrocarbons.
mircea_popescu: and if he gets it, he'll want something else.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "not needing money" except for coma patients.
mircea_popescu: wanting is the sign of intellectual health, just like erections are the sign of reproductive health. if you're lying down with teh nekkid gals and get no pang to trash them around it doesn't mean you reached nirvana, it just means you're not long for this world.
jurov: didn't we solve a yesterday's conundrum about nature of life?
jurov: ie.e life can be defined as anything that needs money
jurov: or maybe intelligent life...
mircea_popescu: punkman put 1024 keys together with the irc nicks so i can send them a later tell ?
Anduck: are 1024s yet bad?
mircea_popescu: best move on, yeah.
Anduck: well yup
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: wage labour is wage labour, whether for usd, btc, or gold dubloons <<< this is an iffy proposition.
mircea_popescu: "wage labour" on fain, on a voluntary basis (internet work, add links, vote on links, comments -> collect points -> take out btc) had average monthly payments well over 1 btc. AVERAGE.
mircea_popescu: plenty of people took out 100 btc in one month. back then this was you know, a few hundred bucks, "wage".
mircea_popescu: they probably sold it, of course, but if they did not, they have a lot more liquid btc than say goat.
mircea_popescu: or any of the other talented folk that got in early, got out early.
mircea_popescu: so wage for btc is not unlike wage for stock warrants, ie, typical start-up work.
mircea_popescu: in any case : i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. let them put a decade in, build themselve financially to the position where they can participate in a start-up, and intellectually to the position where they actually aren't quite AS fucktarded as the average 20something.
mircea_popescu: because no, i don't credit for a minute this theory whereby the 20yo male is the be-all end-all hope-and-pride of humanity.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin isn't college sports.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: did not feel the need to argue the point that no on in their right mind wants to stock shelves at the Canadian superstore at 2am <<< why should they get a choice ?
mircea_popescu: obviously if that's the only job they can get they AREN'T in their right mind. so why should their unright mind get an option as to what it wants to do ?
mircea_popescu: not everyone's brain works, even if everyone's brain THINKS it does.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: getting tired of the bellicose rhetoric << "why can't we all just get along" ?
mircea_popescu: fuck me, i dun wanna get along with idiots.
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of why or wherefore. i just do not wish to.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the one true source of trolling is exactly that. ironically enough, pankake was orignally selling himself as a troll for hire iirc.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ << seems empty ?
assbot: #bitcoin-assets blog posts
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Anduck: mircea_popescu: remember, the people who you call 'idiots' may be living a happier life than you
Anduck: so, are they idiots after all in that sense
mircea_popescu: im sure most of the cattle that i'm going to eat in my lifetime has also lived a pretty happy life,
mircea_popescu: according ot its own standards.
mircea_popescu: the notion that cattle gets to enact standards of happiness is beyond ridoinculous.
Anduck: sure but its funny that many really are happy
Anduck: they also know it
mircea_popescu: so good for em.
mircea_popescu: krugman prolly "really is an economist", at least if you ask him.
Anduck: xD
Anduck: oh, what do ya think of him
Anduck: well, his bitcoin speech
assbot: This is how much I rule (today) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Anduck: i guess i cant read that one
Anduck: paywall i see =(
mircea_popescu: funny lol. guy from the public went up to bernadotte, after wagram, "o, what did you think of the archduke's order of battle!"
mircea_popescu: i think it sucked, lol.
Anduck: hmm
Anduck: mircea_popescu: you know the new monero/bitcoin rpg stuff by rpietila?
mircea_popescu: vaguely.
Anduck: thoughts? will you attend
mircea_popescu: i will not attend.
Anduck: ok. as it's question hour: thoughts about bitcoin short term (1-2 years) valuation?
Anduck: it's good to see how long bitcoiners see these last years of development
mircea_popescu: you really need to go read the logs.
Anduck: there's too much of logs.
Anduck: seriously, even you wouldn't
mircea_popescu: i actually do. i imagine you have nfi idea what wagram is, either, but this gives you no pause, because you're happy without, right ?
Anduck: not relevant but yes i've zero idea of what a wagram is
mircea_popescu: right. well, carry on but if possible quietly.
Anduck: hehe
Anduck: so you would value my speech here if i knew what a wagram is?
Anduck: good. as expected
Anduck: just remember: this is not how the world was built
mircea_popescu: the world was not built by ignorant twerps. your ideas about "the world" are about as well formed as your ideas about "wagram". both are meaningless symbols to you. about one, you arbitrarily delude yourself you have something to say.
Anduck: fine
Anduck: i don't agree but im fine with it
mircea_popescu: now stfu and go read the logs.
Anduck: i guess i already stated i won't read the logs because there's too much and i've got better ways to find out what i want to find out =)
Anduck: doesn't make me ignorant twerp, or does it?
mircea_popescu: yeah, it does.
RagnarDanneskjol: yes it does
Anduck: please, give me a third "yes it does"
mircea_popescu: kids, you know ? tries to engage its mother on its own terms (cries). mother doesn't go for it. kid... INSISTS!!! because totally, if you ignore everything and just repeat your thing... well.. that's happiness innit.
undata wonders whether gribble or freenode itself is lagging today
mircea_popescu: freenode's been having some issues.
undata: ah
Anduck: hopefully people here think clearly :)
mircea_popescu: !up sdffsd
mircea_popescu: punkbot status
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No pending deeds | Last bundle 1 hour and 9 minutes ago
mircea_popescu: so anyone know this Khalahan Henkh fellow ?
sdffsd: Mircea, I can't access mpex.co, what's going on?
assbot: Arrakis | The Operating System is the Control Plane
mircea_popescu: $proxies
empyex: mircea_popescu: Proxies: mpex.biz mpex.co mpex.bz mpex.coinbr.com mpex.ws Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
mircea_popescu: sdffsd nothing ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you have trouble with websites use the irc bots.
assbot: The many ways available for talking to MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
empyex: mircea_popescu: MPEx-Status: mpex.biz (116 milliseconds), mpex.bz (131 milliseconds), mpex.ws (350 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (1681 milliseconds), mpex.co (error)
empyex: mircea_popescu: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
mircea_popescu: lol fucking idiot,
mircea_popescu: ::later tell sdffsd nobody ever told you tor is not actually safe ? lol.
kakobrekla: accidentally found another bitcoin web hosting http://bitcoinwebhosting.net
assbot: Bitcoin Dedicated Servers, DDoS Protection, Anonymous VPS
mircea_popescu: who;s running it ?
kakobrekla: 1712 Pioneer Avenue Ste 1774
kakobrekla: Cheyenne, Wyoming 82001
kakobrekla: ;;gettrust 1712 Pioneer Avenue Ste 1774
gribble: (gettrust [<sourcenick>] <destnick>) -- Get trust paths for <destnick>, starting from <sourcenick>. If <sourcenick> is not supplied, your own nick is used as the source. See http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System#Notes_about_gettrust
kakobrekla: as i suspected
assbot: Thoughts and Concerns about Operation Onymous | The Tor Blog
mircea_popescu: "Recently it was announced that a coalition of government agencies took control of many Tor hidden services. We were as surprised as most of you."
mircea_popescu: what the next line should be ? "we suck, and we're stepping down. sorry we couldn't do what we wanted to."
mircea_popescu: what the next line actually is ? " Unfortunately, we have very little information about how this was accomplished, but we do have some thoughts which we want to share."
mircea_popescu: something fundamentally broken with these people's heads.
mircea_popescu: what do they instead claim ? "Bitcoin deanonymization"
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's right. USG pseudo-secrecy agency used to fuck up idiots stupid enough to trust it now claims "it was bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: im sure it was, heh.
assbot: mapmeld/profanity65 · GitHub
mircea_popescu: "Your comment has been queued for moderation by site administrators and will be published after approval."
mircea_popescu: im sure it will be.
undata: punkman: that's incredible
undata: of note, "nsa-hugging"
undata: yes
mircea_popescu: sooo, buenos aires had this gay pride parade today.
mircea_popescu: they closed off a major street downtown (rivadavia) and put a scene up and everything in front of the cogress building
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, the parade consisted of like... i dunno, five people ? six ?
mircea_popescu: i doubt total participation was 100 heads.
jurov: interesting, last year they report over 100 thousand ppl
mircea_popescu: i saw it with own eyes, about one guy every three minutes or something
mircea_popescu: maybe it's early.
jurov: aparently it was almost banned
mircea_popescu: i dunno how banned it'd be if the city closed down a major street for it.
jurov: looks like not really banned only asked a fee for the security
jurov: and there is something about public indecent conduct
jurov: En ese fallo se responsabilizo por delitos comunes exclusivamente a la Comunidad Homosexual Argentina (CHA) y se la condenó a pagar $450.000.- por un delito ocurrido en la vereda de la plaza donde se realizaba un acto.
mircea_popescu: CHA lol. teh buttfuck foundation! it's a thing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, they have very right-wing ideas about dispensing justice here.
assbot: Digital Inspiration
assbot: How leading Tor developers and advocates tried to smear me after I reported their US Government ties | PandoDaily
mircea_popescu: interesting. now that's qntrable.
assbot: This onion, it smells! http://t.co/OWgxjuDF1F /hashtag/tor?src=hash /ioerror
assbot: The lulz of today : DDoS attacks, ransom notes, Tor anonimity and other faits d’armes of the retarded generation pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: oddly related, BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: "You'll find the core developers are detached and very different to their users. As a developer of software myself I would find it disheartening if the bulk of my users were jerks like /r/bitcoin."
mircea_popescu: look at that, lol.
mircea_popescu: it's visible from something awful!
BingoBoingo: Yeah. Honestly at this point I just don't see many "Bitcoin Developers" actually being very attached to Bitcoin. The "Gavin wants to quit, but doesn't want to say so" hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: well, gavin wants to quit but he can't.
mircea_popescu: the "satoshi costume" is just a start, he'll wear a dead deer if it comes to it.
BingoBoingo: No shortage of those around here. Can't go for a drive of anylength without spotting venison on the roadside.
mircea_popescu: there's some super-paleo people who eat roadkill
BingoBoingo: Sure. I mean the fresh one's are probably safe, but possessing one without a tag for it... Probably safer to drive around with a trunk full of cocaine.
BingoBoingo: In terms of the legal implications.
BingoBoingo: "Conservation Police" here get to do warrantless searches.
mircea_popescu: prison 4 lyf for eating roadkill ?
BingoBoingo: yeah. Conservation police find the cocaine... fruit of the poisonous tree, though probably still having problems.
BingoBoingo: Not for life, but problems. The require for deer the same tag per deer required for hunting them.
mircea_popescu: and why does anyone care what they "require" ?
BingoBoingo: Only so many roads with enought traffic for reliable roadkill. The 5-0 has to take the roads too. The time it takes to drag the deer into a safe tarp and wad it up so the car's interior doesn't look like the scene of a homicide...
mircea_popescu: no dude, not like that. for all the "knife subctulture" or we it is, people spending more money and time with knives than they're worth...
mircea_popescu: just keep camping gear in the back, skin and cook the thing on the spot.
mircea_popescu: call friends to bring beer
mircea_popescu: get out before evening
assbot: Coinbase Rumoured To Raise $50 Million Bezzlars, Down From $150 Million Bezzlars | Qntra.net
BingoBoingo: I'm considering this problem in terms of where the deer are is, is on the side of the "main regional thoroughfare" normally. Because undeveloped colony.
BingoBoingo: Two lane road steady flow of cars. most hours
mircea_popescu: incidentally, am i the only one that finds it just a little amusing that torproject.org actively promotes the use of pdfs to encapsulate information that otherwise should be in a textfile or simple post ?
BingoBoingo: ie. on one end of the "highway" is the seat of county X, on the other end the seat of county Y
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You'd probably be the only one in some other channel.
mircea_popescu: i guess so.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so basically not practical to just pull off road or what ?
BingoBoingo: You jsut don't have a great window ever to do it quietly under cover.
assbot: Error 400 (Bad Request)!!1
BingoBoingo: T-cHnyGuZg5bcKBN5AKZQGikn4UXWSael2cfWuu8GPZMT8qTuiE--sgR0IMGZMZhEMZJLy_F7b1V52hgFCijS5ioQbrvA7j3MDZZadhYolJmG8nKy5o6FTGJTwogtdmRCZVw&h=200&w=555&scale=1
BingoBoingo: http://dpaste.com/2DR6XPG << Fucking textbining a url
assbot: dpaste: 2DR6XPG
mircea_popescu: because google.
thestringpuller: ;;seen cazalla
gribble: cazalla was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 minutes and 48 seconds ago: <cazalla> http://qntra.net/2014/11/coinbase-rumoured-to-raise-50-million-bezzlars-down-from-150-million-bezzlars/
cazalla: i'm here, what's up thestringpuller
thestringpuller: sorry not at a pc. cant read logs.
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/Salondotcom/status/533758402934345728 << More with the shirt from people who went from serious talk of prison rape to articles on how fat people get made fun of maor.
assbot: Hey, misogynists: The shirts that scientists wear is just as important as sending spacecrafts to comets
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
mircea_popescu: is that like a parody ?
BingoBoingo: I think it is actually whatever derp runs Salon's twitter Saturday nights
mircea_popescu: i suppose im the only one bothered by the ebonics coming out of salondotcom ?
mircea_popescu: or is the us so poor these days that a plurality of shirts is verbally inconceivable ?
BingoBoingo: I think it's the hint of ebonics coming to dominate the USian pidgin
mircea_popescu: just like they decided a decade ago to randomly use she instead of the canonical pronoun,
mircea_popescu: now they're going to randomly put is instead of are and so forth ?
mircea_popescu: dun wanna be too cultumancated, lest anyone can tell the orcs apart from the elves ?
BingoBoingo: I don't see much other in the way of explanations unless the literate are embargoing them.
assbot: For the amount of money that Theymos is paying for new forum software, we could run a bitcoin commercial during the Super Bowl. : Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: "Gavin Andresen's salary as the full time lead developer of the entire bitcoin protocol is $209k a year."
mircea_popescu: if there ever was proof positive that crime doesn't pay, gavin's income is it.
mircea_popescu: he could probably make more begging where he lives, and being a professional beggar would actually be much more respectable and honorable than being bitcoin's 5th column.
BingoBoingo: At that income level Gavin's basically in the trap doctors find themsevles when they realize they hate draining abcesses, but their only other prospect is long haul trucking.
BingoBoingo: Except doctors can count on the MRSA spider always targeting junkies, while Gavin is at the whims of Vessennes burn rate http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/11/mrsa-2/
assbot: Devious MRSA Spider Bites Yet Another Antecubital Fossa; Remains at Large | GomerBlog
PeterL: mircea_popescu: fixed the blog site
mircea_popescu: PeterL so what about scoopbot uptime ? what keeps taking it down ?
PeterL: well, it was not set up to reconnect if it lost the connection
PeterL: I have been working on adding threading to monitor the connection
PeterL: but I have never done anything quite like this, so I am learning as I go
mircea_popescu: but do you know how it dies ? anything in the logs ?
PeterL: I am still not sure why it is dying
mircea_popescu: are you running it on a linux box ?
PeterL: yes
mircea_popescu: until myserver; do echo "Server 'myserver' crashed with exit code $?. Respawning.." >&2 sleep 1 done ?
mircea_popescu: then look in stderr see what codes pop up
mircea_popescu: you can just grep for "crashed with exit code" or w/e
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1298 @ 0.001195 = 1.5511 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : another thing systemv does badly : it tries to restart stuff based on pidfiles.
undata: what are the irc bots around these parts based upon?
mircea_popescu: generally supybot
assbot: kyleterry/tenyks · GitHub
undata: that thing's pretty good, used in another channel
mircea_popescu: what is it, go ?
mircea_popescu: there was also a ruby one but i dont recall right off what.
undata: mircea_popescu: yeah, the core is written in go, then services in whathaveyou
RagnarDanneskjol: that tenyks is very nicely done
undata: RagnarDanneskjol: I'm sure he'll enjoy hearing that.
decimation: if gavin is a pauper than I'm in the poor house
BingoBoingo: decimation: No, they feed, clothe, and work you at the poor house. Also curfews and such.
decimation: I wonder how many commits he has to make per week to keep his salary
decimation: can he take a few months off like ascii dreams?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's not a bad theory in any sense. got any policy proposals based on it ? << beyond 'open a physical empire where we can all defect to and die like men in the janissary corps' - no useful idea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not from my puny brain.
assbot: bellingcat - Russian State Television Shares Fake Images of MH17 Being Attacked
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: however, ben himself wants a tower of hydrocarbons. and if he gets it, he'll want something else. << actually, afaik what he was speaking for is my escape rocket metaphor.
assbot: Zone for Employment and Economic Development (Honduras) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the discussion was not about 'enough money', but about the distinct and clearly identifiable phase transition where your time becomes 100% your own
asciilifeform: e.g. 'taleb mode'
decimation: asciilifeform: maybe you can get a job at the 'bitcoin foundation' for $209k
asciilifeform: or, alternatively, in the other direction of spectrum, perelman mode.
asciilifeform: decimation: or city dogcatcher, lol
decimation: ah thanks ben
decimation: asciilifeform: actually many cops make near $200k with overtime
asciilifeform: decimation: but they have to work.
asciilifeform: as in, physically go places and do things
decimation: well, 'work'
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think anyone here has trouble getting money by working.
decimation: if you watch 'the wire' one would believe that a possible option would be to sit in your car on the highway and get drunk
asciilifeform: if you watch the right televised strange, one could believe that one possible option for space flight is to light one's farts.
ben_vulpes: decimation: i'm inching up on 252450, will post more as i gin them up
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i suspect that there is nothing magic about that block
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but simply happens to be when my box exhausted ram from leakage and began to fandango on the db.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah if it is a memory stop it is probably hardware specific
asciilifeform: decimation: wasn't a memory stop as such
decimation: ben_vulpes: what platform are you working on?
ben_vulpes: debian 6
asciilifeform: decimation: but at one point exhausted ram, but blockchain remained wedged upon restart
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> decimation: i don't think anyone here has trouble getting money by working. << I was not able to secure seasonal retail work again this year. I suspect I'm already on a list to "have problems"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo is trying to retain some dignity (has not yet fallen into programming, for example)
undata: bah, sling php, get dollars
undata: better than folding shirts
decimation: I had a lawyer friend who used to be a prosecutor near asciilifeform. He was told not to frequent the local fast food joints because of the poulation of ex-convicts
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. << do elaborate. should all of us but you & kako pack up? or some other thing implied
BingoBoingo: I think I've mentioned here before that after grad school I worked at McDonalds for ~6 weeks to break local kids spirits.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'd love to confirm that for you
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: how did you resist the army?
decimation: right, and in a related point - if $209k per year makes one a pauper, how much is the real bitcoin foundation going to pay?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Too neurologically interesting to enlist.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. << do elaborate. should all of us but you & kako pack up? or some other thing implied << I believe for the rest #b-a is Frankenstein's attic laboratory
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: when working as an r&d contractor grunt, i met plenty of folks in uniform happily 'flying the mahogany bomber'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they mostly had uni degrees though
decimation: asciilifeform: me too. if cards are played right, most mil can write their own tickets in contract jobs
decimation: also military benefits are incredibly generous considering the level of education of most enlisted
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: My brain caught fire a bit too early. When medical records came up post ASVAB offers of pick your field turned into, "trust us, we'll find a nice place for you"
asciilifeform: arrakis os << yet another 'c' microkernel os. snore. snore...
asciilifeform: when will the academics finally starve.
BingoBoingo: In agriculture department academics never starve.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what was the offered place? ball turret gunner?
decimation: I think the last of those were phased out in the 60's
asciilifeform behind the times
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Post asvab pre-medical write up offers involved language school or medical/technical fields, after when "trust us" I began suspecting "cooks assistant" and latrine crew
asciilifeform: language school or medical/technical fields << what were you hoping to become instead ?
decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52_Stratofortress << ' removal of the tail gun in 1991' wow later than I thought
assbot: Boeing B-52 Stratofortress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I probably would have signed for those. But... shift in tenor came when time to draft actual contract.
decimation: BingoBoingo: did they make you take the mmpi?
assbot: Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: decimation: I don't remember that one specifically, but... pretty sure bring a folder of medical records is a part of what did in my chances for interesting stuff. Amazing what a trip to the wrong part of the hospital can do for your prospects
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
undata: BingoBoingo: do the wrong drugs as a kid?
asciilifeform: can he take a few months off like ascii dreams << when did i ever say 'few months'
asciilifeform: 'few months' is about as useful as 'few thousand usd'
asciilifeform: which is to say, not really at all.
undata: BingoBoingo: not an insult; I've heard horror stories of kids tripping, getting hauled into the psych ward
BingoBoingo: undata: Nah. Some people's brains don't self regulate well. Maybe it's genetic, maybe it was West Nile.
undata: ah, that'll do it too
BingoBoingo: I got my school bezzel so probably actually netted more value in the end.
undata: when I was younger a doctor put me on an antipsychotic for a bit due to "depression"
undata: a second doctor bothered with blood work and I was merely low on a few vitamins
undata: american medicine is a scam
decimation: asciilifeform: you would like to be more like maxwell?
BingoBoingo: I'm not a big fan of antipsychotics, make me feel like Micheal J Fox. Anticonvulsants though, particularly lamotrigine... do my brain well
asciilifeform: decimation: the example i usually offer is n. taleb
asciilifeform: decimation: because he is familiar to the folks here
undata: BingoBoingo: yeah, if things like diet and exercise don't help, there are always actual neurological issues to consider
decimation: yeah. actually the first one that came to my mind was Don Colacho
undata: hard to trust diagnoses with a pfizer clock on the wall
BingoBoingo: undata: Well, I tend towards generics. Recently though ETOH has been the anticonvulsant of choice.
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #2,921
BingoBoingo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_head_syndrome << most interesting event I've had with regularity. Not interested in Clomipramine at all though because I like getting boners.
assbot: Exploding head syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gentoo << complicated. the lead dev surrendered to microshit (literally) some years ago, and it's been run by a skeleton crew ever since, with numerous high-profile catastrophes (of the 'your machine is suddenly rendered unusable by a perfectly innocent-looking action' variety) -- but there is -no- adequate replacement to this day.
undata: asciilifeform: hm, hasn't been my experience
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to some extend it exactly mirrors the bitcoind situation - in that every serious user more or less has his own private fork.
undata: anecdotally speaking
asciilifeform: undata probably updates his box
undata: ah, that I agree with, but that's part of the beauty
undata: maybe not for everyone for the same reason
decimation: asciilifeform: I thought mr. robbins quit and started his own gentoo fork?
assbot: Funtoo
BingoBoingo: Ah, funtoo, the bring your own kernel adventure
asciilifeform never tried 'funtoo', cannot speak for it
decimation: http://www.funtoo.org/Funtoo_Linux_FAQ << "Part of the distinctiveness of Funtoo Linux is its dependency-based OpenRC init system, so changing this would make it something other than Funtoo Linux. So we do not support systemd as part of Funtoo Linux. "
assbot: Funtoo Linux FAQ - Funtoo
undata: I can attest to gentoo granting you the right to blow your hand off at every step
undata: but also to a well-tuned gentoo install feeling a lot like a well-tuned emacs
asciilifeform: undata: i still haven't forgiven the xorg thing
undata: "ah, this is precisely what I wanted"
asciilifeform: well yes.
asciilifeform: this is why folks use it.
decimation: asciilifeform: you mean the move from x11 to xorg?
asciilifeform: but the cost, for people who did not spend the last decade with it, is high.
decimation: running gentoo certainly gives you a motvation to scale down the lines of code in your system
decimation: I remember running with KDE 10 years ago and dreading the 24 hour compiles
asciilifeform: lol kde
decimation: kde used to not be a steaming turdpile
asciilifeform regards all mousy wm as turd
BingoBoingo remeber running it of FreeBSD at work in 2004
undata: with a relatively modern machine the compile time isn't so bad
decimation: but instead of being the 'adult' alternative to gnome, kde surrendered to idiocy
ben_vulpes: gentoo quest
undata: and you get to make decisions like turning on stack protector and whatnot
BingoBoingo: decimation: Well, the KDE problem is they went from desktop environment to software development club in the bad way
decimation: yeah. I remember using slackware 3 on my old 486, and barely getting X to run - and also wondering what its point would be
asciilifeform: incidentally, try this today.
asciilifeform: you'll get nowhere.
decimation: asciilifeform: you mean making aggressive compiler optimizations?
asciilifeform: i know of no setup where it is possible to set up even a very decent 486 in such a way that it can be used for serious work today.
asciilifeform: tried it personally, and put in a good effort, a year or so ago
decimation: yeah. I was able to get plenty to run back in in the mid 90's
asciilifeform: the main culprit is the www crud
asciilifeform: as recently as 2004, you could.
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
asciilifeform: a recent openbsd (what i eventually settled on for that machine) consumes virtually the whole 64m.
decimation: asciilifeform: did you have 'compuserve' back in the day?
asciilifeform: not 'aol' either
asciilifeform: never even saw them alive.
undata: decimation: ah I had that
asciilifeform: bbs-en - yes
undata: I vaguely remember gopher sites as a young kid
decimation: compuserve was kind of a giant bbs
asciilifeform: yes, but for money.
asciilifeform: and with lamers
BingoBoingo remember AOL for the copious coaster they mailed
decimation: yeah there were free forums as I recal
devthedev: I wasn't even alive during the days of CompuServe
asciilifeform: i liked the aol floppy disks.
asciilifeform: although they were shoddy
decimation: BingoBoingo: I had a friend who would call aol every day for a new 'demo floppy'
decimation: he accumulated a pile
decimation: later they switched to cds
asciilifeform: i still have 'doom' on a stack of aol floppies somewhere.
BingoBoingo: Oh, we never got their attention until the CD era
decimation: back in my youth I actually ran a tcp/ip node on an 8086
BingoBoingo: Though CD's make for poor coasters in practice
decimation: it was connected to a radio modem and managed to pass tcp to other ham radio operators
asciilifeform: my point earlier was that code bloat is ubiquitous and pestilential and finally made the old hardware unusable with software of even moderately distant (starting '05 or so) vintage.
BingoBoingo: They distribute moisture too evenly over the surface so that it manages to still contact the tabletop
decimation: I bet you could still run 'lynx' on a 486
asciilifeform: 'lynx' - yes.
asciilifeform: and that's more or less it.
decimation: the question is - what have we 'bought' for all this bloatware?
asciilifeform regular user of 'lynx', perhaps one of ten left...
BingoBoingo: This is reminiscent of how Mac OS 9 is less viable on the Internet than OS 7.5.1
decimation: I recall using netscape 1.0 and the user experience was pretty much the same as firefox 30
decimation: asciilifeform: I use elinks occasionally
asciilifeform: in most ways - better. because less retardation in the payloads.
decimation: right, no javascript, just html and pictures
BingoBoingo: The problem with Mac OS 8 and later is that it tempts with the fatally broken.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i know of no serious difference between 7.5 and 8
decimation: BingoBoingo: my experience with macs pre OSX were all macos 8 and 9 - and they both sucked ass
decimation: at least with the shitware I was running, they would regularly crash
decimation: and take down the whole machine
asciilifeform: aha, 'cooperative multitasking'
decimation: heh yeah exactly
asciilifeform: (9 was to have memory protection, but the brass over-ruled it)
decimation: one wonders what would have happened if apple actually went down the lisp machine route
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: While 8 could be forced onto Pre-RISC macs, the result is, and I emphasize IS, never pretty.
BingoBoingo: "Apple" never had a chance at that.
asciilifeform is not particularly in love with the 68k
decimation: I remember having to program a 68k variant microcontroller in school, wasn't too bad
BingoBoingo: It was on the Ti-89 I had and the computer I acquired in the same window of time. My affinity is probably mostly through familiarity
decimation: 68hc12 as I recall
asciilifeform: profanity65 << pure genius.
BingoBoingo suspects there are more similarities between http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=400548341 and Bitcoin than many might suspect.
assbot: Missouri Tigers vs. Texas A&M Aggies - Box Score - November 15, 2014 - ESPN
asciilifeform: unfortunately BingoBoingo may be the only man alive who can see this similarity
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I consider it the privledge of being neurologically deviant
BingoBoingo: The cost of waking up occasionally with a bout of exploding head is an acceptable cost.
decimation: BingoBoingo: is that 'painful'?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Not "painful" as in pain pain. More like having a strong electrical current between your temple and ear while your legs cramp in a way that might need ice in the morning. More discomfort than pain proper.
decimation: that sounds unpleasant, for sure
BingoBoingo: Eh, you get used to it. After about the 5th time when you get rather sure you aren't dying it's not hard to just go back the fuck to sleep by waiting it out.
asciilifeform: if $209k per year makes one a pauper << consider applying my ad hoc formula: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-10-2014#869923
assbot: Logged on 13-10-2014 01:35:27; asciilifeform: rephrase, if you like, as 'unit of discretionary income per unit of lost free time.'
asciilifeform: ^ this, afaik, covers all edge cases
asciilifeform: for example, gavin, a paid shill, has no free time (he is not his own man)
asciilifeform: a mental patient, likewise
asciilifeform: implied divisions by zero - intentional.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> unfortunately BingoBoingo may be the only man alive who can see this similarity << So the most superficial similarity is the media narrative. A&M is perenial legit title contender while MIZ accidentallied the SEC east championship last year and accidentally is in the lead to win it again this year.
decimation: asciilifeform: do you think gavin works 40 hours per week on the git repo?
asciilifeform: ^ may as well be in chinese
asciilifeform: (BingoBoingo)
asciilifeform: decimation: that was not the point
asciilifeform: decimation: but that he is not actually free to, for example, do a 'decent' bitcoind
asciilifeform: handler - would not approve.
asciilifeform: his pay is in fact contingent not only on 'playing ball' but continued usefulness to handler
asciilifeform: which is not guaranteed
decimation: well, the bigger point - do we really think his 'foundation' is going to last that long anyway?
decimation: so while he might be able to skate for a few years, later he's a pauper in retirement living on government cheese
asciilifeform: if it were to implode, the shills will be placed into similar roles elsewhere
asciilifeform: assuming they have not fallen into official disfavour by then.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So there's a media narrative when team A is having a horrible year that supposed they were good enough to win if only the competition wasn't so strong. But the narrative for Team B is that they are so miserable and wouldn't be winning if only their competition wasn't so weak. And then teams A and B finally meet and in the game B actually maintains a position of superiority.
decimation: at any rate, I get you point, but you realize that the number of folks who are 'free' by your definition are probably less than a few thousand in the us
asciilifeform: decimation: possibly even fewer.
asciilifeform: although how could i possibly know.
BingoBoingo: And in the course of writing that Mizzou leads Texas Ass&Mouth 34-20 now because they scored another touchdown.
decimation: certainly the inflationary currency, the confiscatory taxation, and the expense of home and bread combine to make this lifestyle nearly impossible in the us
asciilifeform: decimation: however, there is perhaps a million people in usa who, if they were to suffer some form of 'brain parasite', could easily jump the border and live this way on the capital they could smuggle out.
decimation: yeah that's probably true
asciilifeform: the capital controls being slowly worked in, are mainly to guard against this.
decimation: a portion of them are doing exactly that every year
assbot: My finger should have been amputated from the beginning. It was very loose with no bone to connect it.it was also smelling really bad.
BingoBoingo: And twitter censored the picture of the actual necrotic finger
asciilifeform: did i miss something? how did we get to gangrene ?
asciilifeform reads log
asciilifeform: or was this something to do with the sportsmen
ben_vulpes: non sequitur by my read
assbot: Doug Williams Indicted for Teaching How to Pass a Polygraph Test | AntiPolygraph.org News
asciilifeform: aha that was in here earlier i think
asciilifeform: and indictment was on 'cryptome' last night.
asciilifeform: peculiarly corrupted fax scan, too
asciilifeform: much snow.
decimation: apparently the detail there is that all of the 'evidence' was collected by undercover cops
asciilifeform: as different from virtually everywhere else?
decimation: so basically they are going to try to convict this guy for training people pretending to be people who take usg's pseudoscience seriously
assbot: Book Discussion True Believer | Video | C-SPAN.org
asciilifeform: he's being zapped for 'lèse-majesté'.
asciilifeform: big fat surprise.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: He was the sportsman in the 1990's shot his finger off a few weeks ago. Reattached. "Modern Medicine" has problems.
decimation: "ONE THING YOU MIGHT HAVE NOTICED THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE THING I MENTIONED AT LEAST TWICE, THAT ANA PASSED OUR POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION 1994 THAT DID NOT DETER ME OR FBI FROM PURSUING THIS. WE KNEW SHE PASSED THAT EXAM, SO WHAT?"
decimation: "WHEN I WAS ACTIVELY DISCOURAGING HER FROM TAKING ANOTHER EXAMPLE QUOTE FRANKLY I WAS AFRAID THAT SHE WOULD PASS IT AGAIN. THAT WOULD NOT HELP ME OUT OF IT. "
asciilifeform: they preferentially target the retarded for prosecution, big news.
decimation: so an actual usg spycatcher actually caught found that the polygraph actually hindered his investigation
decimation: asciilifeform: it would be more honest if usg made its agents walk on coals and swear secret loyalty to the civil service - it would be much more honest and straighforward
asciilifeform: decimation: aha but the 'scientific' flavour.
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2014 17:35:40; asciilifeform: the one common anthropological thread i see here is that most governments insist on some 'national' symbolic meaning in their chosen means of execution. e.g., the french guillotine across all five 'republics'
asciilifeform: (different thread, similar concept)
assbot: Federal Polygraph School Gave Countermeasure Information to Polygraph Company | AntiPolygraph.org News
decimation: apparently usg agents are zealously evangelizing their 'secret' polygraph faith around the world
asciilifeform: incidentall,y
assbot: 'Grass' Model 79 D - Imgur
asciilifeform: ^ saw this alive in a university surplus shop last week.
asciilifeform: apparently they are common as dirt
asciilifeform: and nobody wants the crud - computerized eeg is pocket-sized
asciilifeform: this is a standard usg 'lie detector.'
asciilifeform: iirc it was going for fiddybucks or so.
asciilifeform: complete with chart printer.
decimation: lol that would be amusing as a party trick
asciilifeform: someone who wants to make a spy drama film, will buy it.
asciilifeform: for any other purpose, quite useless.
decimation: asciilifeform: you could probably get grant money from usg if you were a scamademic
asciilifeform: the physical workmanship of the knobs, etc. - was superb.
asciilifeform: decimation: i was drummed out of scamademia many years ago.
decimation: yeah that's all 'mil-spec' hardware, with the 'round' connectors
asciilifeform: superbly machined aluminum, brass knobs.
asciilifeform: very satisfying 'click', too
asciilifeform: i suspect the theatrical aspects demanded this.
decimation: you should have bought it for the rotary switches
asciilifeform: vita brevis.
decimation: yeah only someone attending to 'serious business' would have a setup like that
decimation: imagine the mind of the 'interviewee': surely usg wouldn't spend bezzlars on those fine knobs if this wasn't serious business
asciilifeform: this is perhaps the 3rd time i see one of these for sale, too
asciilifeform: (in person, not even counting 'ebay')
asciilifeform: there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of them around here.
decimation: do you have a favorite 'junk dealer' in the dc area?
asciilifeform: a number of them.
decimation: I know that there are many scavengers who survive on reselling usg surplus
decimation: related: " The revolutionary does not discover the “authentic spirit of the revolution” except before the revolutionary tribunal that condemns him." http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2010/08/1665.html
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #1,665
asciilifeform: if you come across one, know that usg mandates disk sanitation pre-surplus, but no such law is enforced on contractors...
decimation: asciilifeform: I think it depends if there was anything 'secret' on the drive - in that case it probably must be destroyed
asciilifeform: statutorily - yes
decimation: but for that reason most contractors are reluctant to 'donate' their hardware in such a way
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform action like what ?
asciilifeform: like installing updated video board driver
asciilifeform: (if re: gentoo)
mircea_popescu: but i mean... rendered unusalbe as in you can't get a terminal on your monitor
asciilifeform: as in, can't get x
mircea_popescu: not as in, well the hdd's wiped and the bios randomly rewired
mircea_popescu: that's endemic with x.
asciilifeform: it's pestilentially endemic with any tall dependency stack.
asciilifeform: knock out brick from bottom - all falls.
decimation: the pile of chairs gets mighty fragile
undata: set proper VIDEO_CARDS, emerge -avuDN @world, config kernel, reboot
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suppose the "so ssh then" only works for people who youi knw, actually own multiple computers
mircea_popescu: ie, 1% of the 8bn
asciilifeform: that was decade ago
decimation: or 'use serial port'
asciilifeform: now, anyone with access to a skip owns arbitrarily many
asciilifeform: but if you think keeping one gentoo box around is work, try five.
mircea_popescu: anyway, what i said was, to noobs looking at linux
undata: I don't do any more work administrating mine than debian.
mircea_popescu: i guess ubuntu 10.04 could be the alternative.
asciilifeform: at any rate, no box i ever owned was rendered entirely unbootable by a braindamaged gentoo
asciilifeform: one can always get a text tty
mircea_popescu: problem is, yoyu get them on ubuntu, next you know they think it's windows and update
mircea_popescu: next you know they ARE on windows.
asciilifeform: although destroying sole means of network connectivity and ending up snaking a ppp link across room, is good times
decimation: purists avoid 'vga' console for serial term
asciilifeform: vga for serial, wat
asciilifeform: probably meant 'text mode' tty ?
asciilifeform: as in, the one normal people see on boot
decimation: no I mean no video card, serial tty only
decimation: some bioses support this
asciilifeform: well, you only need bios support to access the bios menu this way
decimation: true.
asciilifeform: otherwise any reasonably-civilized os will do
decimation: the vga console code on linux still sucks after all these years
asciilifeform: i and probably everyone else here has owned plenty of boxes with no video output hardware at all.
decimation: many folks trying to get low latency ditch it
undata: asciilifeform: I'm surprised you don't like gentoo, given you tend to advocate actually knowing what your computer's doing, and why
asciilifeform: i use gentoo exclusively.
undata: asciilifeform: ah! then you have every right to hate it.
asciilifeform: or, almost exclusively (got a few bsd boxen around)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: as in, physically go places and do things << dunkin donuts ?
decimation: I might try 'funtoo' if he is serious about no systemd
mircea_popescu: im bashing that exchange lol
mircea_popescu: "o, then you have every right to hate it" lmao
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even if the work of a policeman consisted solely in going to a doughnut shop and eating a kg of garbage every day, so long as he -must- -- that is still work.
asciilifeform: as in, arbeit macht frei.
mircea_popescu: yes yes, i know whatcha mean.
asciilifeform: i was unaware that gentoo was on 'hate radar' for folks who aren't using it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: decimation: but at one point exhausted ram, but blockchain remained wedged upon restart <<< speaking of this, there's an option to close with detached bdb
mircea_popescu: this is useful if you keep stopping every x blocks, backuping bdb files
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ^
decimation: mircea_popescu: you mean running bdb as a separate process?
mircea_popescu: no no, bitcoin itself can close in such a way so as to not leave its own state crud crudely saved
mircea_popescu: this would seem to sane minds the only way to close, but then it "took too long", so...
decimation: ah I see
decimation: which would help differentiate between 'wedged bitcoind state' and 'wedged bdb state'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. << do elaborate. should all of us but you & kako pack up? or some other thing implied << well, i know you self-motivate by refusing to see some degrees, but there are some degrees.
asciilifeform: let's have the cold equations
asciilifeform: which degrees ?
cazalla: this fkn conference i'm streaming.. "cold storage is out dated, it's about multisig now".. where do you see bitcoin in 20 years time? "something like email where you can instantly send value over the internet"
asciilifeform genuinely curious
mircea_popescu: consider the case of the various chicks that came to show their tits for .1 btc
asciilifeform: cazalla wallowing with the eagles, lol
mircea_popescu: they didn't stick around. why this ?
mircea_popescu: one explanation, that persuades me, it's because they dun have the time to. because they gotta work.
asciilifeform: on account of having exhausted the fountain ?
asciilifeform: if they could get the .1 again and again - perhaps would
mircea_popescu: the fountain's still going.
mircea_popescu: well, the .1 ain't, in my mind, the actual larger half.
asciilifeform: iirc you only paid per set of tits ?
asciilifeform: and each gurl shipped with 1 set.
assbot: Internet story pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: 2nd quote most relevant.
mircea_popescu: put it another way : if i didn't think the .1 is the smaller half, i wouldn't be giving it out in the first place.
asciilifeform: if here 1 -> 2 continued to 2 -> 4 -> 8 -> ... ... maxint - then yes, interesting
asciilifeform: if a successful las vegas roll - less so.
mircea_popescu: so, degrees. for most chicks, the cheese dispensed by the cheese dispenser is all there is.
mircea_popescu: for some chicks, the fact that how the shot does a cheese dispenser work ?! is a more pressing question.
undata: this is such a strangely wonderful place
mircea_popescu: so there are degrees. yes, everyone in the bezzle is in the bezzle.
mircea_popescu: some guys work three jobs to try and get the kid in school where he can work in a sv startup. this is a degree of improvement.
mircea_popescu: then maybe one day the kid gets to the point where he even has the freedom to consider wtf he's doing. further degree.
mircea_popescu: plenty of degrees.
undata fist bumps with ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: plenty of degrees. but, i can't help but notice phase transitions in the space.
mircea_popescu: to restate : if you rent's due and you're short you should not be here chatting, you should be putting out that fire.
asciilifeform unaware of this being a thing for any of the people still here
mircea_popescu: well it's all i meant, rly.
mircea_popescu: im sure the various "give us 1 btc or else !!1" kids were in exactly this position.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen sdffsd
gribble: sdffsd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 hours, 19 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <sdffsd> Mircea, I can't access mpex.co, what's going on?
mircea_popescu: no further than today.
asciilifeform: i still can't fathom 1 being the magic number in there
decimation: like our little extortionist friend
asciilifeform: why not extort, say, 10? 100?
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how hope works.
mircea_popescu: and since you mentioned moiety, from what i understood that was exactly her position.
asciilifeform: starvation?
mircea_popescu: well she had to figure out rent
mircea_popescu: i tried to onlinehire her but for some reason she lacked the drive or w/e.
mircea_popescu: maybe internets just noit her thing
asciilifeform: for some reason i thought it actually happened
asciilifeform: but didn't suffice
asciilifeform wasn't there
asciilifeform vaguely recalls an apparatus involving telephony, where moiety was paid per minute, but few folks called
mircea_popescu: part of the problem is, the internet (and esp my stuff) is very self-directed
mircea_popescu: many people are used to micromanagement, under relentless pressure from a pointless class that wants to justify its existence
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's unrelated.
asciilifeform: ah hm ok. i don't think the other thing was public
mircea_popescu: even today i have plenty of handcrankled tasks for the aspiring slavegirl. never a shortage of that. what's of shortage is teh ppl to disciplinedly work, erry day, hour after hour.
decimation: After seeing work exploit and demolish the world, laziness seems like the mother of the virtues. (#2,053)<< http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2010/10/2053.html
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #2,053
mircea_popescu: decimation sure, great. no complaints may then be entertained about needing stuff tho.
mircea_popescu: laziness is a virtue of the well provisioned.
asciilifeform: micromanagement << most folks around here used to it, but i always imagined they would profit from its removal
decimation: heh good retort
asciilifeform: sparrow in the park may be used to children throwing stones at it
asciilifeform: doesn't mean it needs the stones for anythig
undata: decimation: having been convinced that the walls of my country are going to fall in, I've got all the motivation I need
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tell you what : teenager is used to seeing girls in his class dressed, imagines he'd ben efit from the removal of the clothes.
undata: I think plenty more subconsciously know the same, and are hiding in distractions
mircea_popescu: should that actually happen, teenager would run and hide in a corner.
decimation: asciilifeform: for myself, I find working with an engage colleague to be much more motivating than a boss yelling
mircea_popescu: decimation the tora study model eh ?
mircea_popescu: im kinda curious what comes of the ben_vulpes - mod6 pairing in this vein.
asciilifeform: folks who have not boiled in the cauldron cannot fathom the kind of hells that exist. i once worked in a salt mine where scores of people dredged 'reddit', illicitly, all day.
asciilifeform: many years ago.
asciilifeform: (when it was almost readable)
mircea_popescu: sooo! degrees!
undata: asciilifeform: hey man, I shoveled actual cow shit as a summer gig long ago
undata: it's good for you
asciilifeform: undata: a fellow i work with spent his childhood (india) in cow shit detail. fuel for the local cremation pyre.
asciilifeform: had some interesting stories.
decimation: yeah, in the old west where trees were lacking, cow shit was firewood
undata: amazing how you lose sense of the smell
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
mircea_popescu: doesn't that make him whatever that caste is ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oddly enough - brahmin, entirely unsullied by this
asciilifeform: somehow there was an exception for children doing chores
decimation: I think you are thinking of dalit
asciilifeform: so long as human turds not involved - ok.
assbot: Risk Investigator at Coinbase | Bitcoin Jobs
asciilifeform: human turds -> dalit
asciilifeform not expert on the mechanics whereby cow shit does not count as shit
undata: cows being holy or somesuch?
asciilifeform: well yes.
undata: I can firmly attest they are not
mircea_popescu: maybe it's because it tastes good.
mircea_popescu: indians are nuts.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in parts of near east, folks mix it into chewing tobacco.
asciilifeform: don't ask me why.
mircea_popescu: cazalla im sure one'd have to sign whatever.
undata: asciilifeform: humans will imitate goddamn anything
asciilifeform: don't advertise for a 'stierlitz' in a public channel...
cazalla: mircea_popescu, this job actually coincides with the fraud i reported on weeks ago to which they never responded, i'm writing it up
asciilifeform: (folks will bite but not the ones you want)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: teenager would run and hide in a corner << puzzling over this. why would this happen ?
mircea_popescu: why. because nothing is as scary as cunt, that's why. try it sometime.
asciilifeform often wonders if mircea_popescu is logged in from mars. or if asciilifeform is, himself.
mircea_popescu: why do you think you take the bitch to the dog, not vice-versa ? males are shy.
cazalla: you take the doe to the buck too!
cazalla: sometimes to doe mounts the buck
cazalla: the even
asciilifeform: cazalla breeds radiation-damaged deer in butugychag ?
undata: that even sounds like a soviet labor camp
asciilifeform: it was.
cazalla: asciilifeform, i wish, just rabbits but i'm sure you know this
asciilifeform: but also a region.
asciilifeform: aha rabbits.
asciilifeform: damaged by what?
asciilifeform: or is this normal for the species
decimation: Frustration is the distinctive psychological characteristic of democratic society. Where all may legitimately aspire to the summit, the entire pyramid is an accumulation of frustrated individuals. http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2010/05/1110.html
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #1,110
mircea_popescu: its normal for all mammal species yo.
undata: asciilifeform: mining uranium without gear, no less. brutal.
cazalla: asciilifeform, you DO know i raise rabbits right? *here comes cazalla and his rabbits talk again*
asciilifeform: aha yes i recall.
asciilifeform: good picture of heads
asciilifeform: (what do you usually do with those?)
cazalla: compost it all
decimation is dreaming of building a colacho-bot which attempts to provide the appropriate aphorism for the conversational mood
cazalla: i wanted to make snow camo but who has the time
asciilifeform: i think ilkka kokkarinen had a colachobot
assbot: The Wingnut Musings: Ilkka Kokkarinen: 9781468166811: Amazon.com: Books
asciilifeform: that book is all that's left of him.
decimation: it sounds pretty good
asciilifeform: i own it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: i know of no setup where it is possible to set up even a very decent 486 in such a way that it can be used for serious work today. <<< sarge ?
asciilifeform: he is/was a finnish emigre, working as a comp sci prof in canada. was hounded off the net by 'outraged mass' for moldbuggery.
asciilifeform: not once, but twice.
asciilifeform: first time, made to recant, threatened.
asciilifeform: then came back. then, disappeared again, taking all of his materials with him, this time - for good, apparently.
decimation: he should come on here
assbot: Review of “The Wingnut Musings” by Ilkka Kokkarinen | Foseti
asciilifeform: ilkka.kokkarinen at gmail
mircea_popescu: hanbot mail the man would you.
asciilifeform: tried to contact him 2 yrs. ago, he said 'shoo'
asciilifeform: or the like
asciilifeform: i have the dead tree book, it's a 'best of' his blog
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: and that's more or less it. << notice that bitbet, mpex, trilema, qntra, logs etc all work on lynx.
asciilifeform: foseti and a few other guys have warez scans
asciilifeform: ask'em.
asciilifeform: he was a die-hard poker player and loved applying the metaphors to, well, relevant things.
asciilifeform: also a very decent mathematics handler.
asciilifeform: blog was called 'fourth checkraise'
mircea_popescu: decimation: asciilifeform: do you think gavin works 40 hours per week on the git repo? << do you suppose captive whore in thai illegal brothel works 40 hours per week ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sarge << i don't consider non-source-based distro as suitable for serious work
mircea_popescu: what fucking difference does it make how many nominal hours teh slave works.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was sorta my point in reply
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sarge source was released no /
asciilifeform: source released != source-based distro
asciilifeform: msdos source also 'released'
asciilifeform: and win2k.
asciilifeform: 'source based distro,' classically, is when nothing (other than bootstrap compiler & kernel, thomson says hello) gets on the box without being built there.
asciilifeform: normally this is at least minimally mechanized.
asciilifeform: because vita brevis.
asciilifeform: ilkka's book << notice he pulled the 'kindle' version also.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure you could, and still can, do this with deb 3.1
asciilifeform: and the printed one was a 'print on demand', there was no actual reason to zap it
asciilifeform: except that he was frog-marched.
asciilifeform: this is what means 'not free man'
asciilifeform: he skipped red finland to end up in... this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if it were to implode, the shills will be placed into similar roles elsewhere <<< pretty miuch this.
mircea_popescu: which is why career anlysis is such a powerful tool,
asciilifeform: and attribution of works.
mircea_popescu: and which is why as BingoBoingo pointed out earlier, when touched there they react. (the tor people in that case)
mircea_popescu: it's the one place it hurts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yup, but until being "invented" here that really never existed.
asciilifeform: and we watched herr dingledine give private performance for nsa.
asciilifeform: a year ago.
asciilifeform: ferglubssake we didn't invent pgp.
asciilifeform: but in practice - this.
mircea_popescu: "attribution", not pgp
asciilifeform: !s three-man system
asciilifeform: invented by, afaik, herr korolev.
asciilifeform: attribution.
mircea_popescu: the idea that what you do wil come back to haunt you is very much mpoe[-pr], as far as the bitcoin, and generally the "entrepreneurial" spaces are concerned.
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:27:45; asciilifeform: there was a three-man system
mircea_popescu: swanson's "that's not how normal debates work" is just an echo of that.
asciilifeform: one day we produce a koraktor, wrapped in sc4mz0r pelt cover, 'the art and science of hunting shitgnome'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well that's why the quotes. obviously it's an ancient idea, and no invention whatsoever.
asciilifeform: or 'malleus scamificorum' alternatively.
mircea_popescu: but this doesn't change the fact that nobody did it, nor does it change the fact that i'm principally hated for that reason, my agents have been principally hated for that reason
mircea_popescu: and this chan is called a cult, or anything else bad!111 for that reason.
asciilifeform: devils - hate crucifix, yes
asciilifeform: how could they not.
asciilifeform: what does true hate even mean, if not this.
mircea_popescu: cause nothing is so fucking evil as you know, someone digging up on trilema, coming up with meni rosenfeld's name, now the scumwipe can't go around pretending like you know
mircea_popescu: "hje's been in bitcoin". "o, but doing what ?" "nevermind that!!!"
asciilifeform: surprising he'd use the name again.
asciilifeform: no one cancelled, even, 'google.'
mircea_popescu: most of them didn't realise this attribution doohickey even exists.
mircea_popescu: which is why, "invention". apparently it is.
mircea_popescu: to this day, and shockingly, i write about church ? ppl are "oh, you're jealous"
mircea_popescu: it doesn't even manage to pierce the dielectric between their ears that no, im jus saving it for later.
mircea_popescu: somehow this is not a possible concept.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2FGT98Y.txt )
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