Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-10-23 | 2014-10-25 → ↓
decimation: as in, pop spy
asciilifeform: stierlitz
asciilifeform: but not at all like james bond
asciilifeform: other than being a fictional hero
asciilifeform: quite the polar opposite, in most ways
asciilifeform: ;;google seventeen moments of spring
gribble: Seventeen Moments of Spring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeen_Moments_of_Spring>; 17 Moments of Spring - 1/12 - 1/7 - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIzOma9Pyv8>; Semnadtsat mgnoveniy vesny (TV Mini-Series 1973) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069628/>
TheNewDeal: damn ascii, this is a lengthy piece
mircea_popescu: <TheNewDeal> but did anyone go to jail, get fined by sec, etc? << no.
TheNewDeal: ;;ticker
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> wtf even means 'like james bond'. everyone he fucked died same day? << lmao
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 352.01, Best ask: 353.34, Bid-ask spread: 1.33000, Last trade: 353.38, 24 hour volume: 25593.98759498, 24 hour low: 344.34, 24 hour high: 380.28, 24 hour vwap: 362.289581503
mircea_popescu: "my sperm got is how they invented spermicide, bitch!"
mircea_popescu: actually that loper-os artic le is how stan ended up on hanbot's list iirc.
mircea_popescu: ("list of people writing about bitcoin that are not obviously total idiots")
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: that article is ahead of its time lol
thestringpuller: good read
decimation: as I recall, reading about stan's encounter and further correspondence on that post is what interested me in this channel
asciilifeform: now declassif1ed!
thestringpuller: "And, what is far sadder, fools invariably show up, ready to part with their Bitcoins on their own free will. They give them up in exchange for promises, backed by nothing at all." << timeless
mircea_popescu: yeah that sounds about right.
asciilifeform must admit for the record that he did not know about nanotube's 'wot'
asciilifeform: when wrote that piece.
asciilifeform: or possibly saw it, and did not digest
asciilifeform: but did, sadly, actually have the concept in head, and did nothing useful with it
asciilifeform: !s kyristor
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is funny because of all the forum derps going "oh, mpoe-pr hates everything!!1"
mircea_popescu: yeah, like that asshole teacher that flunks the entire class, which is unfair, because THE ENTIRE CLASS
asciilifeform: 'entire cl455! except for those bozos who cheated by studying'
decimation: being an asshole is bad pr in the short run, but it's great for making history in the long run (if you are right)
mircea_popescu: that's the immortal gambit, isn't it.
thestringpuller: mpoe-pr was more of a public service
thestringpuller: paid to by mp to educate the masses
asciilifeform misses the mpoepr essays
thestringpuller: MPOE-PSA
BingoBoingo: So is Thermos still holding GLBSE asset lists hostage?
mircea_popescu: yeah but the woman was slowly going insane. and really, today's poor aren't actually worth it.
mircea_popescu: two years ago it was a different story.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: I think issuers got their lists
TheNewDeal: where can one get a hold of said mpoe-pr eas
TheNewDeal: essays*
thestringpuller: bitcointa.lk
BingoBoingo: bitcointa.lk seems to have stopped keeping up
TheNewDeal: read that one a handful of times
TheNewDeal: thought that was MP for some reason...
asciilifeform read them all many times
asciilifeform: and the immortal...
asciilifeform: !s shall be delivered
assbot: 17 results for 'shall be delivered' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=shall+be+delivered
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yeah but the woman was slowly going insane. and really, today's poor aren't actually worth it. << Also the part where you stick by saying cares about that venue are over has its own value
mircea_popescu: i didn't parse that.
mircea_popescu: anyway, basically she's a naggum without the ulcer.
mircea_popescu: (did get gastritis tho)
BingoBoingo: Eh, when you write off a venue like bitcointalk as worthless, best to stand by that decision unless something material about the venue changes for the better.
mircea_popescu: and perhaps 5k posts or so, i forget the exact count, is not quite equal to that guy's usenet count.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo a, yeah, that ain't happening.
BingoBoingo: Well not with Thermos for sure, probably not with his successor
thestringpuller: yet bitcointalk keeps getting donations
Apocalyptic: what's Hannah's blog address btw ?
Apocalyptic: thank you
mircea_popescu: re-reading that, incredible how little has changed since Nov 15, 2012. "get in the wot, read the logs"
thestringpuller: 6 months thing hasn't changed either
decimation: fyi there's an increased chance of a severe geomagnetic storm happening in the next week or two
Apocalyptic: <thestringpuller> 6 months thing hasn't changed either // should be 12 maybe
asciilifeform: when i read 'shall be delivered', i knew virtually nothing about the author -- but instant respect, of the deepest kind.
asciilifeform: respect as in 'i wish this person to do the privilege of being my kaishakunin.'
asciilifeform: ;;ud kaishakunin
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kaishakunin&defid=1111214 | Samurai Who Performs Kaishaku During Seppuku. The Kaishakunin Used A Katana Known As A Dotanuki.
decimation: he's the guy who witnesses right?
asciilifeform: not only witnesses.
BingoBoingo: <Apocalyptic> <thestringpuller> 6 months thing hasn't changed either // should be 12 maybe << Nah it is the same six months, test is picking the right 6
mircea_popescu: i like this right 6 theory
decimation: we are all in the same big zone together, might as well let the string be 'zekd'
mircea_popescu: "master, how to learn dao ?" "read a coupla lines on it" "which ones ?" "yes"
thestringpuller: Who is inaba again?
asciilifeform: as i understand, one's kaishakunin would typically be a respected teacher, who approves of you enough to take the risk of embarrassing himself by chopping incorrectly.
Apocalyptic: so it's either the noob gets the 6 right or gets only a subset, if the cardinal of this subset is low enough it doesn't help in any way
thestringpuller: "My point was that I have run and continue to run successful business(s) on the Bitcoin platform and yet somehow I've managed to do this without WOT... again shooting your theory to hell and gone." << Don't know what businesses he is talking about.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller "we".
mircea_popescu: !up eth3
mircea_popescu: ennumeration!
decimation: !s eth2
eth3: hi
eth3: heh had to change nicks to get in mintpal's channel
eth3: moolah didn't like being called out on his scam
mircea_popescu: i thought you were just fighting systemv
eth3: nah just snooping over there see if there was any action ;p
decimation: asciilifeform: I booted rhel7 today to find out what lennart has been up to
decimation: it's been 'chromed', looks like lame osx
decimation: even the server version
mircea_popescu: anyway, inaba is the original bfl forum shill / organiser of the original "bfl will deliver" scambets.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Inaba is BFL-PR
thestringpuller: "You hold up MPEx and Satoshi Dice as successful businesses, and give them valuation in the millions of dollars. I mean, seriously, what is there to argue? I've already provided you evidence and reasons as to why the utter nonsense you're claiming is evidence for your arguments is false and you just keep providing the same nonsensical arguments over and over. BFL has sold tons of hardware, that is verifiable proo
thestringpuller: ^- wow it's just funny to read this stuff now.
mircea_popescu: he's got a legitimate business trading ciggs for socks and sweaters in jail now or what.
asciilifeform: trading something else.
decimation: no cigs aren't allowed anymore I think
decimation: they trade tins of sardines
BingoBoingo still feels warm fuzzies about winning the S.BBET over S.DICE bet win
mircea_popescu: o right it was herring
decimation: "There's been a mackerel economy in federal prisons since about 2004, former inmates and some prison consultants say. That's when federal prisons prohibited smoking and, by default, the cigarette pack, which was the earlier gold standard."
thestringpuller: BFL hadn't even delivered at that point, those sales were just "preorders". Geeze.
asciilifeform when read about this for the first time, wondered if some 'lifer' inmate will file a 'cruel and unusual punishment' claim against the u.s. department of prisons for potentially extending his lifespan and thus adding years to his sentence without a judge's say-so
decimation: lol asciilifeform that's a good point
mircea_popescu: interesting argument
mircea_popescu: may even get to scotus
decimation: yeah they decide hard-hitting cases like that these days
mircea_popescu: they recently heard a case about fucking beards.
TheNewDeal: beard fucking?
asciilifeform: except that one must appreciate the kind of monsters methodist/puritans are. e.g., not only are various measures taken to prevent inmates from offing themselves, but those condemned to death are on 24/7 'suicide watch'.
TheNewDeal: ;;google beard fucking scotus
gribble: Sadly, No! » Fuck the Fucking Supreme Court: <http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/39909>; This Better Not Be the Beginning of the End for Beards - Jezebel: <http://jezebel.com/this-better-not-be-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-beards-894969588>; Supreme Court Facial Hair | Josh Blackman's Blog: <http://joshblackman.com/blog/2013/11/05/supreme-court-facial-hair/>
asciilifeform: lest they deprive the crown of its entertainment.
decimation: scotus is so frightened of making another 'roe v wade' and thus lose their 'prestige'
decimation: that they have neutered themselves from making any decisions
decimation: and will thus fade into irrelevance like the president and congress
mircea_popescu: the president can't fade into irrelevance.
decimation: well, there's no doubt that there's a megaphone attached to his lips, but what does he actually say anymore?
BingoBoingo: Ebama simply summons Obola to crush dissent
mircea_popescu: the content ain't that important.
decimation: asciilifeform: maybe as a mercy gesture the prisons stock high-mercury mackerel
BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: maybe as a mercy gesture the prisons stock high-mercury mackerel << Heavy metal poisoning is slow
decimation: perhaps the presidency will slowly transform into 'the official scapegoat'
mircea_popescu: seems dubious, but maybe.
asciilifeform: ze fuhrer says through his megaphone - whatever he is asked to say. for example, '38400 baud.' >> http://imgur.com/a/oZSiI
asciilifeform: 'At the 1980 Olympics, Brezhnev begins his speech. "O!"—applause. "O!"—an ovation. "O!!!"—the whole audience stands up and applauds. An aide comes running to the podium and whispers, "Leonid Ilyich, those are the Olympic logo rings, you don't need to read all of them!"'
decimation: one of the few unifying opinions in the us today is 'the politicians suck'
decimation: a fact highlighted daily by bureaucrats and their media minions
mircea_popescu: by the way, is yarvin still writing or lives in memory only ?
asciilifeform: ask him
decimation: he put a post up a few months ago that kinda ended it
assbot: Unqualified Reservations: Hiatus
decimation: he's apparently gotten himself roped into the silly-con valley circus (again)
decimation: I think urbit is still around
decimation: maybe they are in 'stealth mode'
asciilifeform: searched using google, for 'urbit', via a few proxies, cookieless browser - and discovered that...
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo's 'review' - and mine - are on front page.
decimation: I'm sure when they are done with 'stealth mode' urbit will be awesome ;)
assbot: Facebook pays INFINITELY MORE UK corp tax than in 2012 The Register
BingoBoingo was probably the least technical person to compel Urbit to the gallows
asciilifeform: i'm also still, for some reason, on their mailing list, and mostly nothing has happened there in a while
asciilifeform: doesn't mean mr mold isn't grinding away in his cellar again like before.
asciilifeform: but, stopped posting, it seems.
decimation: probably with mr. theil's cash
asciilifeform: no secret, this
asciilifeform: unless he's blown it on 'paid best friends'
decimation: eh, he can probably gain a small staff of unpaid 'interns'
asciilifeform: i'm sorta glad he did the escapade, because those were the easiest four-and-half btc i ever made
decimation: heh. I just got a destroyer, and after rebuilding the code about 5 times I said 'fuck this'
decimation: plus, the intentionally annoying 'language'
assbot: Loper OS » Dukedom for Sale.
decimation: having to learn runes to read beowulf is one thing, acting as some weirdo's bitch is another
asciilifeform: decimation: actually i must disagree. i followed mr mold's project since the day i ferreted out the semi-public dump where he kept it
asciilifeform: decimation: i'm willing to believe him where he swore to me that he never learned 'haskell', 'ml', or the like.
asciilifeform: decimation: but he certainly sat in comp sci grad school long enough to suffer the braindamage which produced those monstrosities
asciilifeform: until i realized this, following the work was actually enjoyable
asciilifeform: there was ever the possibility that he - wouldn't - do... well, what he did.
BingoBoingo: Fucking Jets
asciilifeform: i eagerly and secretly learned his languages from the scant posted notes and the system sources.
asciilifeform: there are not so many of us.
asciilifeform: os crackpots, that is
asciilifeform: can't set the bozo bit on a fellow so quickly, i thought, esp. one who somehow begged/borrowed/stole enough free time to actually achieve something tangible
BingoBoingo thinks TempleOS guy is best OS crackpot guy of the crowd shipping nao
asciilifeform: when mr mold posted a begging box some years ago (prior to public urbit) - i gave...
asciilifeform: (his 'fuckyoumoney' was, he said, actually just 'temporarily fuckyou' and had run through. his dependopotamus had birthed.)
mircea_popescu: ahahhah "temporary fuck you"
BingoBoingo: ^ mircea_popescu contemplating Usian contempt for fertile women
assbot: Unqualified Reservations: The Mencius Moldbug Babysitting Fund
decimation: asciilifeform: I also gave a couple btc to his pot
mircea_popescu: is this like "i don't eat anything for as many as 20 hours a day, so i'm therefore anorexic" ?
decimation: I don't disagree with your assessment, it just makes me feel weird to try to learn something that's so esoteric
mircea_popescu: i mean the temporary fuck you is the exact definition of the non-fuck you
asciilifeform: he had, according to his confession at least, what turned out to be a battery rather than a perpetuum mobile.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was disappointed when he cut off blogging after I gave
mircea_popescu: now that happens
asciilifeform: though he did specify 'i won't promise to do anything interesting now'
asciilifeform: sorta admited that he was spent
decimation: he might have had the unwashed masses who followed him 'go to his head'
asciilifeform: 'plan was to make some money in Silicon Valley and then retire as an independent scholar...' << notice, mr mold also didn't much care for arbeit macht frei.
decimation: asciilifeform: I was thinking about this today, you are right. it's fantastically expensive to feed and house yourself in the us, especially with dependents
mircea_popescu: i have no idea how well it applies, but i have seen this "independently wealthy" affectation too often to count, both online and off. it is usually the carpace of the shy, socialy awkward, intelligent young male.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Only if you stay in income trapzors
mircea_popescu: pretty much every whore i ever talked to readily identifies it in the field as mere pretense.
asciilifeform: and woe be unto you if you have some calling that is more costly than watching tv.
decimation: BingoBoingo: like, live off of usg welfare checks?
mircea_popescu: plenty of blogs start on that basis, which assuages the author's mindvoices long enough to write something
asciilifeform: usg welfare << terry davis!
mircea_popescu: then as a sense of familiarity develops, more of truth can be let out.
BingoBoingo: decimation: No, like somewhere rent is $300/month instead of $maxint/month
decimation: To me "independently wealthy" implies owning a revenue stream that is sufficient for a reasonable standard of living, plus cushion
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i guess it depends on whether decimation means by dependents any 16 yo kids like in the youtube vid.
decimation: heh no mine are very young
BingoBoingo: Ah, $maxint child induced damage
BingoBoingo: Seriously thoug Ohio is a place. The20YearIRCloud does well renting mud huts in the wastes of Ohio
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: "independently wealthy" affectation too often to count << not hard to tell the fake perpetuum mobile - it sorta grinds to a halt at some point...
decimation: right, but then I wouingld have to drive an hour to do... anyth
mircea_popescu: i'd rather raise children in chiapas than ohio.
asciilifeform: what does it cost in ohio to get 1Gb/s fiber?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13197 @ 0.00074258 = 9.7998 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why do you need 1gb/s ?
asciilifeform: how many volumes in ru or de in the topology section of the largest academic library in ohio?
mircea_popescu: decimation owning "revenue streams" is not so unlike owning women, the original... stream.
asciilifeform: what does it cost to take next-day delivery of a crate of taiwanese FETs in rural (cheap) ohio?
decimation: asciilifeform: there's this guy in akron who is trying to run a 'startup' https://tiny-circuits.com/blog/
assbot: TinyCircuits Blog
decimation: he can rent industrial space for cheap
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't imagine post charges differently ?!
decimation: can't hire anybody
decimation: yeah ascii I bet it's cheaper to ship there than to dc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: u.s. post is worthless. private carriers will only deliver to reasonably large population centers, at least given normal 'human' (vs courier, $maxint) service.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> how many volumes in ru or de in the topology section of the largest academic library in ohio? << At OSU prolly a lot and you can walk them out the door forever
decimation: I bet the ohio state university library is as good or better than maryland, but it's also not near any cheap housing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno, man. fedex delivered to timisoara nad to luxor
mircea_popescu: both in the 100k range, nowhere.
mircea_popescu: akron is what, 1mn ? 2mn ?
mircea_popescu: well in that sense boston is 50k lol.
mircea_popescu: 200k + 700k
asciilifeform: at any rate, darkest ohio is a paltry 1-2x cheaper than where i am.
fluffypony stretches
BingoBoingo: I mean even if must live in the bay area, Oakland is a place...
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah that's the problem
decimation: you can rent an apartment for 1k instead of 2k
asciilifeform no longer fits in a flat
BingoBoingo: I have never spent 4 digit integer dollars on apartment.
decimation: asciilifeform: has your landlord bothered you about your various 'hobbies'
asciilifeform: decimation: he lives in ca.
decimation: the problem with renting homes in the us is that 99.99% of the 'landlords' are just some other chump with the mortgage
asciilifeform: yes, that kind, as i understand
decimation: the general business strategy is to spend nothing on maintenance and maximize rent
asciilifeform: not a pro, owns just this one bldg
asciilifeform: amortizes all maintenance using insurance co.
decimation: which is why renting is not a thing for most folks
decimation: lol like he files claims?
asciilifeform: this is SOP apparently
decimation: I thought insurance companies drop you like a hot potato if you pull that
asciilifeform: so long as it's, e.g., new refrigerator every 15 yrs and not 15 months
decimation: the reason why this works out (even if the guy is losing money) is that real estate is favored by usg tax code
asciilifeform: at any rate, no sc4mz0r, he, i've no complaints. house does exactly what was printed on the tin.
decimation: one can depreciate the house to $0 over 30 years
decimation: but it's not just housing, food, petrol, etc, all is priced to essentially rob most of your discretionary income
asciilifeform: don't forget tax.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> one can depreciate the house to $0 over 30 years << One can depreciate house to a liability within a day
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah even with the tax breaks above, a person is going to pay at least 30-40% tax
decimation: this would have been considered ridiculous even by roman tax farmers
asciilifeform: roman slaves had more disposable income than most people in usa.
asciilifeform: more in sense of buying power
decimation: most of that tax is paid by kulaks, to fund programs that assault their dignity and liberty
assbot: Did diversity miss the train in Union Station's architecture? - The Denver Post
decimation: apparently the boring train station that hosts successful business is 'racist', because it doesn't have an african corner or something
BingoBoingo sometimes forgets abused Usians aspire towards more than 200 square feet and a flush toilet in their residence
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: some aspire to, e.g., electron microscope, or six-axis vertical mill, or ion beam workstation.
asciilifeform: other - healthier folks - to bathtub for burial in cocaine.
BingoBoingo: This is true
asciilifeform: but the real treasure - unlimited free time - makes ion beam workstation look like a 'dollar store' souvenir.
decimation: guten morgen
decimation: !up smidge
decimation: asciilifeform: even though hardly anyone is involved in producing food, we are still not free from wage-bondage
asciilifeform: decimation: arbeit macht frei!
decimation: the uncertain money supply contributes to over-bidding of assets
decimation: heh stierlitz is available with english subtitles on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIzOma9Pyv8
assbot: 17 Moments of Spring - 1/12 - 1/7 - YouTube
asciilifeform has not read the subs, not sure about quality of translation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1400 @ 0.00073994 = 1.0359 BTC [-]
cazalla: mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/01.jpg << me thinks is is like too fucking much to scrool through. but anyway. <<< it is but i'd rather scroll 10 images than click 10, pdf is included anyway :P
assbot: Beware the Chinese FX reserve fall | FT Alphaville
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00073754 = 3.7615 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Swedish Enforcement Agency To Look If Debtors Own Bitcoin | Qntra.net
assbot: U.K. Will Have to Pay an Extra $2.6 Billion to EU Budget - WSJ - WSJ
punkman: did assbot change how it sends PMs? It keeps opening new windows in my client every time it sends a line.
punkman: "Eurostat arrived at the €2.1bn figure on the basis of new methods of calculating member states’ GNI since 1995, taking account of previously unreported or under-reported black economy elements, such as drug dealing and consumption or the sex industry."
assbot: 404 Page not found
punkman: I wonder what these eutards are smoking
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00073878 = 6.3166 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: lol and how are they going to do that.
assbot: Caged Tit pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: punkman basically desperation is what they're smoking.
bounce: "we're looking for a junior database developer. you will also be our DBA. we do big data and require tsql skills. we're active in 80% of the country's hospitals. we're an entirely microsoft shop." -- this advert frightens me.
jurov: mircea_popescu: jurov's blog is not vulnerable to the wp reflected ddos thing << cuz it's not wp
jurov: asciilifeform: yea i'm doing mailinglist
jurov: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know who ? linus. << actually he was so disgusted to unity he switched back to kde
jurov: *by unity
ben_vulpes: ;;isup trilema.com
gribble: trilema.com is up
ben_vulpes: dns is wacky around here
ben_vulpes: log.bitcoin-assets.com dns also whacked for me
ben_vulpes: although log1's accessible
ben_vulpes: re messages: ditch it
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> (did get gastritis tho) << http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=cortisol+from%3Abenkay lol toldja
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> (did get gastritis tho) << http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=cortisol+from%3Abenkay lol toldja
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: did you produce a blob of Satoshi's writings on the crypto mailing list?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11642 @ 0.00073554 = 8.5632 BTC [-]
assbot: The mystery of the disappearing Silk Road murder charges
ben_vulpes: f9beb4d9.org ?
kakobrekla: autocat
ben_vulpes: best cat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.0007351 = 11.3941 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: ziggamon +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00073449 = 3.8928 BTC [-] {2}
bounce: !up ziggamon
bounce: !up ziggamon
ziggamon: thanks for voice :) Want to show you guys a little project of mine, looking for feedback
ziggamon: www.bitrefill.com, it’s a site where one can top up prepaid mobile minutes, currently works in 115 countries.
ziggamon: figured I’d post it here before announcing wider, if something’s horribly broken I’m sure you’ll let me know
mike_c: hard to know without trying it.
mike_c: doesn't seem like a terrible idea.
bounce: need to kick that osx thingy of yours to make it stop substituting fancy utf8 for simple apostrophes
bounce: who're you going through to get that many countries?
ziggamon: bounce: it’s a distributor for now. If we manage to get usage we’ll go straight to operators, and then prices will be much lower as well
bounce happens to not have a number in a supported country so can't check. I don't suppose you have a list of fees and stuff somewhere?
ziggamon: it’s different for different countries. but markup is generally 10-20%. each supported operator has a pricelist that can be checked through the ”supported countries” bar
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6133 @ 0.00073449 = 4.5046 BTC [-]
mike_c: dafuq is a "bits"?
ben_vulpes: context?
ziggamon: :) 100 satoshis. trying to get it newb friendly, gives more readable numbers for price comparison
ziggamon: will make it optional eventually. the actual invoice shows the price in normal decimal bitcoin
FabianB: what's wrong with satoshis?
bounce: what'd the progression be then? satoshi, bits, nybbles, bytes, cents ?
mike_c: to me it feels a bit confusing. i look at the price list and it says "for 10 usd pay this bits" and I really don't know how much I'm paying.
bounce: probably not a good idea to invent new terms in support of catering to the stupid, causing more confusion
mike_c: but overall i think it's fine. undifferentiated field so it's largely just a marketing challenge.
undata: yeah I think "bits" emerged from /r/bitcoin
undata: or at least that's where there was a lot of rabble regarding
ben_vulpes: rabble rabble rabble
ziggamon: fair enough. yeah, there’s been a lot of talk about that. not super happy about the bits word, but I do think moving the decimal separator makes sense
FabianB: still have no idea why have decimals at all
RagnarDanneskjol: 'Topup is delivered the second the transaction clears' - how do you characterize a 'cleared' transaction and what method/process is used to fill the phone account
bounce: the saddest thing is that the SI has quite a neat system in place already, but nobody deigns to use it.
assbot: Bitcoin Transaction 9654c0477b576e6244ceb1e48ef14d3bfb349d6614876e04f204f1bd656f86d4
ziggamon: when the service determins it to be sufficiently confirmed. figured I’d experiment with that. currently it happens at one confirmation, will be adjusted depending on feedback, fraud etc
kakobrekla: why would somebody intentionally make change
kakobrekla: broken client?
mike_c: custom code?
ziggamon: the topup method is for most cases a direct-to-mobile, bitrefill sends a request to the distributor, who then sends a request to the operator, and the user gets a nice sms saying ”your account was topped up”
mike_c: why did you notice?
kakobrekla: mike_c still it doesnt make sense
kakobrekla: you just make tx larger and next ouputs smaller
kakobrekla: double fail
kakobrekla: outputs*
mike_c: yes, i didn't mean "really good custom code"
mike_c: somebody had on their ledger two amounts they owed that guy and their code made two outputs in the tx.
mike_c: although.. that may not be totally retarded.
kakobrekla: i own the incoming address
kakobrekla: its not what you describe
mike_c: do you know who sent it to you?
kakobrekla: some bit4x user
mircea_popescu is now curious what ppl are discussing, loads up the logs
kakobrekla: nothing significant prolly
ben_vulpes: interesting, blockchain barfs on calculating transacted total
kakobrekla: i just cant make sense of it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9339 @ 0.00073705 = 6.8833 BTC [+]
mike_c: not the only time it happened from that address.
assbot: Bitcoin Transaction 18d8d42c2e09fce04f1613869e4e60beb17a4d311e0dfa452311fb06598c6a0e
mircea_popescu: bounce: "we're looking for a junior database developer. you will also be our DBA. we do big data and require tsql skills. we're active in 80% of the country's hospitals. we're an entirely microsoft shop." -- this advert frightens me. <<< omfg holy shit.
mircea_popescu: jurov: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know who ? linus. << actually he was so disgusted to unity he switched back to kde <<< he kept switching between gnome and kde, at least two or three back and forths.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: p. sure i know that company
ben_vulpes: hilarious technology choices
mircea_popescu: so, the junior db guy is going to be the dba ?
ben_vulpes: "the" dba
mircea_popescu: "we are looking to hire a young cowhand, you will also be our napoleon"
ben_vulpes: impling "the" db
kakobrekla: i see mike_c heh. that one isnt pointing towards me though.
ben_vulpes: if it's the same company, they've got one in every single customer dc
mike_c: yeah, just saying. he's doing some odd tx's.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i guess you know your cortisols huh.
kakobrekla: i think im gonna ask him
ben_vulpes: *shrug* i don't 'em as hot as you do i guess
ben_vulpes: *run 'em
kakobrekla: what sort of black magicks is he performing
ben_vulpes: !up ziggamon
ben_vulpes: !up ziggamon
ben_vulpes: whatever you say, assbot.
bounce: yes, the original had "you will be our dba"; also implying probably the only dedicated tech guy to work with the eggheads in analytics
ben_vulpes: if that's the case, they're not the same company at all.
mircea_popescu: "your job will be to write another leveldb to excel 11.2.5 translation tool
mircea_popescu: the previous one broke when we upgraded from excel 10"
mircea_popescu: YOU CAN NOT USE ANY CLI STUFF. THAT BRINGS VIRUSES AND OTHER TERRORISTS
mircea_popescu imagines little shops of horror where excel spreadsheets have little magic cells where one puts magic values in order to cause an excel-to-db commit
bounce: there's plenty of those in tdwtf, no need to imagine.
undata: mircea_popescu: at a previous gig in a consulting shop, we encountered a (subsequently rejected) potential client which did exactly this
ben_vulpes: ;;ud tdwtf
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TDWTF | Nov 5, 2008 ... The Daily What The Fuck. A website containing random IT stuff that make you go WTF. Dear god. This bastardised site looks like from TDWTF.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: cazalla: http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/ <<<< cazalla this totally needs all the research you can throw at it. what the fuck is the story there, they got raped on the "undercover" work ? how ? why ? major point loss for the omni-impotent usg.
assbot: The mystery of the disappearing Silk Road murder charges
mircea_popescu: undata sigh.
undata: mircea_popescu: the effort that guy poured into learning excel "macros" or whatever their called could've been spent on lvl2 php
mircea_popescu: excel has "macros" in the sense people trying to emulate my sex life through jacking off have lipstick on their balls.
mircea_popescu: microsoft just heard there's this thing "emacs" that has these things "macros" so they put a brick in their thing with MCRAO written on it.
jurov: cazalla how is cryptomoneyexpo different from all the other chumpferences?
bounce: it's got a name. "visual basic for applications". great for macro viruses and such. one stop shop for all your office document infection needs.
mircea_popescu: is it actually visual basic ?
jurov: how actually? basically it is
mircea_popescu: lol "visual basic for applications". "c for seafaring vessels. java for flowing liquids. ruby for rings". what the fuck is a language for, applications, right ? what the fuck else, gramas ?
jurov: cazalla i missed footnote 12. nevermind
mircea_popescu: jurov does it have cell-aware goto ? so could you write a basic program in a 2d array that's the excel spreadshit ?
bounce has so far successfully avoided more understanding than to look away in a hurry as soon as anything like it comes into view, so can't help you there. so not sorry.
mircea_popescu: and i asked if it actually is basic because microsoft could just as well rape perl and call it "visual basic for backscratching"
jurov: lol it's not inside spreadsheet. i never used it, tho
assbot: Conway's Game of Life
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "we are looking to hire a young cowhand, you will also be our napoleon" << haha
mircea_popescu: excel gol ?
mircea_popescu: kinda cool.
jurov: embedding scripting lang in the app isn't anything unusual... how m$ did it is another story
jurov: my opinion on excel? "yeah call me when it is able to simply read back csv excereted by itself."
bounce: that was entirely true to form: they announced they'd do it. everybody assumed it'd be bodged all to hell and back again. they released it. someone figured out a virus for it. [x] bodging confirmed.
mircea_popescu: ziggamon: it’s different for different countries. but markup is generally 10-20%. << what i don't get is, most countries have local shops that even give discount. why would someone pay a premium ? what's the usecase like ?
kakobrekla: lazy?
jurov: mircea_popescu anonimity for the poor
mircea_popescu: ;;ud bodged
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bodge | bodge. A quick and dirty job, something done very hastily. Make it look good for the next day or two and if it falls down after that, it's alright. 1> You bodged ...
mircea_popescu: jurov but i can buy refill cards here anonymously too. and phones, for that matter.
mircea_popescu: i guess it's an outside-of-us-only type of deal ?
jurov: in the EU? that's not so easy
jurov: but then i'm 100% sure it doesn't have eu in the list anyway. there were such services before.
kakobrekla: theres france
kakobrekla: but thats not really eu
jurov: exception culturelle
kakobrekla: also spain
ziggamon: mircea_popescu: You are right about the fees. Use cases are sometimes people want to do it online and now they can. Fees are lower than equivalent services that take credit card. Also there is a remittance use case for bitcoiners.
ziggamon: the goal is, with enough usage I’ll be able to negotiate better prices from the distributor, and eventually set up agreements with operators directly, only then will it be competitive with the kiosk
bounce: you running any sort of turnover already?
mircea_popescu: ziggamon: :) 100 satoshis. <<< this at least he got right, bitcoin is powers of two powers, not powers of three.
mircea_popescu: as discussed http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-one-year-of-dividends/#footnote_4_47551 because trilema, again a year ahead of public discourse in the space.
assbot: MPEx : one year of dividends pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ziggamon: bounce: not yet, slow launching now, here, on my personal FB/twitter and such. but I’ve gotten a few orders from around the world already and everything seems to be working. will be doing more promotion during the weekend
bounce: 100 isn't a power of two
mircea_popescu: jurov thing is, since all of eu is basically supplied by a british and a french operator, france is good enough, just buy orange there.
mircea_popescu: bounce 10*2, where 2 is a power of 2.
mircea_popescu: as opposed to 10**3, where 3 is a power of 3.
bounce: yay, new series!
mircea_popescu: basically, 1`000, 1`000`000, 1`000`000`000 is bullshit whereas 100, 10`000, 1`000`000, 100`000`000 is where it's at is the idea.
jurov: 10000 satoshi shall be named mircibitcoin and 100 popescibitcoin in the honor of...
mircea_popescu: that doesn't sound like it has a chance.
mircea_popescu: i don't see myself saying "popescibitcoin"
bounce: SI gives single singe digit shifts, at least until it hits 10^3 and 10^-3
jurov: decidecibitcoin :D
bounce: s/single single/single/ just a single single please
mircea_popescu: bounce talk about nonsense in standards, right. "oh, single digit then three digit. because fatlogic."
jurov: how is that nonsense?
mircea_popescu: and because "use double digit throughout is too hard, you definitely need and use patent nonsense like deciliter"
mike_c: mircea_popescu: the use case is mostly not for your phone. you are in US and topping up mom's phone in mexico.
asciilifeform remembers recent machining textbook (american) which defended barbarian units of measure as 'intuitive to humans'
mircea_popescu: mike_c wouldn't you send her btc and she can do it locally ? guess not.
bounce: gives a good range and is still fine grained for the ones more often in use. not nonsense to me.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is some value to that, amusingly, in exactly an end-of-world context. because you can measure feet and inches without rulers better than you can measure cms.
asciilifeform: my index finger knuckle-to-tip is a вершок to 1 %.
jurov: that's just because there are entrenched foot sizes
jurov: nonmetrical
mircea_popescu: bounce it may not be to you, but it's proven nonsense in practice. your beer is not 5 deciliters, but most likely 50 cl or 500ml.
jurov: if i knew my feet are of size 27cm then i could measure accurately
mircea_popescu: jurov and we could call you A4jurov
bounce: hm? plenty glasses are marked with dl, not cl and marking with ml would be misleading
mircea_popescu: i gotta see one of these beers marked in dl.
mats_cd03: i've never seen dl.
mircea_popescu: me either.
jurov: and i'm not convinced about inches, too.. everyone still has to check their size anyway before using it
asciilifeform: in the apocalyptic dark future of kello kitty (TM) - the billion iPnohes may not power up, but they'll remain the same size... somehow people forget that the planet is cluttered up with a nearly-bottomless supply of objects of very exactly known sizes.
asciilifeform: so my accurate '1U of server' knuckle will not be asked after.
jurov: lol you remember the onscreen ruler app? with zoom function?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rounded corners therefore your argument is ivalid.
mircea_popescu: jurov tits measure! nipple to nipple capilicker!
jurov: too bouncy
mircea_popescu: anyway, logical scale, if you must have it log for fine-ness : 10**0 orign, then 10**1, 10**3, 10**5, 10**9, 10**13, 10**17, 20**21, then 10**29 and add 8 seven more times so on.
mircea_popescu: god's scale, because it allows you to integrate everyday important stuff like the atomcount on a planet.
jurov: well, one'd need to start writing numbers like 10'0000'00'00'0
mircea_popescu: jurov still, i don't believe there's enough day to day humiliation for alleged females with cupsizes under c.
mircea_popescu: aaaand what's wrong with that ?
jurov: not saying its wrong
mircea_popescu: pity there's not more hipser listening in on -assets, this could be the new bored math grad student trent
jurov: another system would mess with my perception
bounce: trent, the bored math grad hipster
mircea_popescu: that's the definition of hipsterism.
jurov: i started to split fractional part by 4 digits
mircea_popescu: ;;google pula lui terente
gribble: Nu e deloc ușor să colecționezi penisuri | VICE Romania: <http://www.vice.com/ro/read/nu-e-deloc-usor-sa-colectionezi-penisuri>; Ko-Rupt - Sa-mi bag pula-n ma-ta - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rnerrjKI-0>; IPJ Gorj Perchezitii contrabanda tigari Matasari 1 oct - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx-gN9lU3M8>
jurov: and it bit me outside bitcoin
jurov: so i must be careful
mircea_popescu: true story : early 1900s romanian outlaw and rapist, hung like a horse, after execution penis kept by museum of natural history.
mircea_popescu: allegedly womenz left the door unlocked because fancied a fuck. so then he;'d also rob the place.
jurov: very expensive escort service
mircea_popescu: well generally the women fancying the fuck were young hussies, the people owning the place/jools not young hussies, so it works out eh ?
mircea_popescu: sorta like fuck-welfare, you get laid, govt picks up the bill.
jurov: and how we come to that topic? my client dropped a line somhow?
mircea_popescu: we were discussing trent
mircea_popescu: the bored hipster grad student.
jurov: ;;google trent, the bored math grad hipster
gribble: Stranded: A Wayward Ink Publishing Anthology - Kindle edition by ...: <http://www.amazon.com/Stranded-Wayward-Ink-Publishing-Anthology-ebook/dp/B00O3A3DY8>; collision detection: Blogonomics: My latest story in New York ...: <http://www.collisiondetection.net/mt/archives/2006/02/blogonomics_my.php>; Kanye West ChicagoVerseUniteD: Chicago Scene Salvation: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: it's in the logs lol. <bounce> trent, the bored math grad hipster
bounce: oh, stick me with the blame, why don't you
mircea_popescu: big cocks are no blame.
jurov: oh it's not any preexisting (fictional or real) character?
mircea_popescu: no, we just made it up. because we're creative like that.
bounce: that's it, cock au vin for dinner tonight
mircea_popescu: with our very large mindpenis.
jurov: i was interested in his stories... guess imma have to write it myself
bounce: argl. s/ck/q/ but the damage is done now anyway
mircea_popescu: jurov actually, trent the GAY bored math grad student hipster would be even better.
jurov: yest id' make him a fag
jurov: yes i'd make him a fag
mircea_popescu: not really a fag all the way tho. maybe just the gaytip ?
bounce: as in happy. these are supposed to be happy stories.
bounce: gay just as soon as it's hip to be gay. now wouldn't that be an interesting trend.
mircea_popescu: would be ? how about is ?
bounce: have they caught on themselves?
jurov: that's called "gay curious" or such
jurov: bi curious
mircea_popescu: i dunno, but the complaint of all the actual faggots i know in the us is that "all the kids pretending like they're gay make life impossible"
jurov: lol
bounce: that was the point, yes. the pretension and then not carrying through.
ben_vulpes: "these kids have no idea what it meant to be gay even a decade ago!"
mircea_popescu: it's really pretty heavy duty trollage of the gay community by mainstream hot topic teenagers. think about it, what if all the chicks in discos were really trannies.
mircea_popescu: "just because i'm gay he thinks i want him to stick his penis into me ?!?!?!?!"
mircea_popescu: "can't we all just be platonigay ?"
jurov: eternal friendzone
mircea_popescu: gayzone is best friendzone!
mircea_popescu: jurov is he sjw also ? or just a lot of aloof ennui on political topics ?
jurov: our trent is totally starring in porn under "hung hipster" nick
mircea_popescu: well, camwhoring at any rate.
jurov: woud prolly be better story if some sjw is his bitch
mircea_popescu: well, online-only bitch at any rate.
mircea_popescu: maybe the pilot episode is the nsa trying to recruit him
mircea_popescu: and he's all like...
mircea_popescu: jurov you ever seen le grand blond ?
jurov: which nsa? interacting with our stan would be fun
mircea_popescu: no no the other nsa.
bounce: pretending to be starring, of course. couldn't be a hipster if it was for real.
jurov: not seen
mircea_popescu: then he turns them down and takes a job for stan's nsa.
mircea_popescu: jurov oh you absolutely must.
mircea_popescu: ;;google le grand blond avec une chaussure noire
gribble: The Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe (1972) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068655/>; The Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tall_Blond_Man_with_One_Black_Shoe>; The Return of the Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe - Wikipedia ...: (1 more message)
jurov: maybe i did but mostly forgot
mircea_popescu: pierre richard got the derpy cool.
mircea_popescu: and mireille d'arc is the hottie soubrette soumise from le grand restaurant
mircea_popescu: ;;google site:trilema.com mireille darc
assbot: Les veinards pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
gribble: Les veinards pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/les-veinards>
asciilifeform: nsa tries to recruit derpy math kid << 'good will hunting' (film)
mircea_popescu: mat damon is too much of a fucking ham for this.
ben_vulpes: trilema dns still borkd for me
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes is it cached locally ?
ben_vulpes: derpy consumer route? it's possible but...not likely.
ben_vulpes: log as well which is kinda odd
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what's dig say ?
mircea_popescu: SERVER: 192.168.0.1 is usually your own router.
ben_vulpes: log unborkt
ben_vulpes: so yes then
ben_vulpes goes for more coffee
ben_vulpes: der derp derp derp derp
mircea_popescu: i can understand caching an answer. but caching a nonanswer ? who the fuck is the bright excel spreadsheet that came up with that idea.
ben_vulpes: excel based routing tables
bounce: randomly clicking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:21st-century_American_male_actors yields http://www.danamboyer.com/ who thus benefits from his surname starting with an a
assbot: Category:21st-century American male actors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
assbot: dan amboyer - home
ben_vulpes: what could go wrong
mircea_popescu: bounce google came up with the fucktarded idea of basically replacing their algorithm with a by-hand list (yeah, just at the top, which is like saying "just where it matters"). as a result, all sorts of shitholes like facebook, wikipedia etc are basically google spam repositories.
wywialm: i will buy put options on usd, eur, possibly unescrowed, short or mid-term
mircea_popescu: !s put options
wywialm: not much relevant content, unfortunately
wywialm: mircea_popescu, you don't trade options now, do you?
mircea_popescu: wyrdmantis i just meant it for los_pantalones observation that yu can't afford buying put options
mircea_popescu: which somehow isn't in there it seems.
assbot: Logged on 18-09-2014 18:12:54; los_pantalones: long puts, no matter the market
assbot: Logged on 18-09-2014 19:46:44; los_pantalones: what did i say earlier about long puts?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00073449 = 1.9097 BTC [-]
wywialm: didn't he mean btc puts? i look for usd or eur btc-denominated puts
mircea_popescu: so put on btc paid in eur say ?
kakobrekla: ben_vulpes you can run your own instance of logs if you want.
wywialm: put on eur paid in btc delivered in eur
wywialm: aka put on x.eur but without having to register on paymium
wywialm: s/aka/a la/
mike_c: wywialm: isn't that bit4x.com?
kakobrekla: or anyone else who is trustworthy.
wywialm: i'll see the bit4x.com. kakobrekla: i'm precisely in the process of looking for such trustworthy person :)
kakobrekla: uh? i was talking about logs.
mircea_popescu: im completely confused now. isn't bit4x usd/eur pair ?!
mike_c: wait, nvmd. i think i misunderstood you.
kakobrekla: bit4x is many pairs none of which are btc.
mike_c: his put on this denominated in that delivered by bananas twisted my brain for a second.
wywialm: and bit4x.com trades options? i cannot find any reference to that
kakobrekla: nope, not options.
mike_c: no, forget bit4x.
kakobrekla: its a scam anyway.
mike_c: and the customer service!
kakobrekla: the worst part!
wywialm: mike_c, it's actually simpler than options on btc/usd rate. if you properly treat btc as the center of this financial universe, the usd and eur are foreign assets and they should be deliverd
mircea_popescu: what do california, subsaharan africa and the poorest parts of india have in common ?
mike_c: ;;gettrust wywialm davout
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user wywialm to user davout: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=wywialm&dest=davout | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=davout | Rated since: Thu Jan 27 16:22:24 2011
mike_c: why are you trying to avoid paymium?
mircea_popescu: wywialm anyway, talk to los_pantalones, he might write something but i doubt you'll want the premium.
ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: interdasting notion, but i'm taking like 3 things into production over the next month and can't handle the overhead.
wywialm: i'm not trying to avoid it, i simply would like to have it simple
mircea_popescu: wywialm but if you're taking that foreign asset delivery, you will need a method. bag of cash ? or what's your idea of simple ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bring out yer dead!
kakobrekla: ben_vulpes no pressure.
asciilifeform: !s plague
wywialm: wire/sepa is not that bad
kakobrekla: but im not dead yet!
ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: are you trying to get it off of your plate?
wywialm: paymium is a layer on top of it
assbot: Did bubonic plague really cause the Black Death? - health - 24 November 2001 - New Scientist
mircea_popescu: wywialm yeah but wanting someone to make a custom thing for you rather than just using something already in place takes you from a few btcs to a few thousand btcs volume you know.
asciilifeform: (and yes, knew about the crackpot hypotheses before reading that; but good overview)
wywialm: ok, i could be convinced to buy puts on x.eur
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is this the school arguingit was really ebola ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5510 @ 0.00073705 = 4.0611 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: ben_vulpes since everyone is eating i dont see why we should limit ourselfs to one plate :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ebola-esque haemorrhagic fever, yeah
asciilifeform: not necessarily modern ebola
mircea_popescu is unconvinced.
los_pantalones: wywialm how long dated a put are you looking for ?
wywialm: i'm merely trying to explore possibilities
mircea_popescu: it was clearly bacterial.
los_pantalones: and where would you want to trade them ?
asciilifeform: clearly?
mircea_popescu: clearly.
wywialm: 30-60 days
los_pantalones: strike ?
wywialm: 400
asciilifeform: unrelated - is the standard unix 'patch' util braindamaged, or am i? specifically, the ludicrously elephantine output when deleting files
los_pantalones: for a 45 day put
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones interesting quoting, and he can pick whether he wants 60 or 80 ? :D
mircea_popescu: or is it by volume or what.
los_pantalones: he can sell me $60's or buy $80's
mircea_popescu: o the spread. ic.
los_pantalones: yeah, kinda wide, i could tighten if he shows some int
los_pantalones: and where he wants to clear
mircea_popescu: no, actually, it's pretty narrow.
mircea_popescu: all things considered.
los_pantalones: alright, ty for the stamp of approval
wywialm: i'd suppose 30% spread is pretty wide :)
mircea_popescu: american put @400, 45 days out i'd almost buy at 80.
los_pantalones: wywialm any int?
mircea_popescu: if only there was some sort of spot that wasn't a total fucking joke.
wywialm: but it's confusing to quote puts on usd in usd. you mean that usd will be delivered if 400 or higher?
wywialm: thats why i tried to spell it in btc
mircea_popescu: wywialm if you want to be delivered fiat, wtf would you quote it in o.O
wywialm: mircea_popescu, if you bought options on S.MPOE would you quote it in terms of S.MPOE or btc?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I'm not old enought to have originals to make an authoritative checksum. ATM Nakamoto Institute is probably your best bet
mircea_popescu: wywialm i thought you said you want to be paid in fiat.
wywialm: nonono, i would like to pay btc for an option of fiat delivery, excuse me being not clear enough
mircea_popescu: so i guess you can pay the 80 in btc at whatever current prevailing rate.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: best i turned up is: bitcoin-0.3.21-linux.tar.gz (leeched jun 2 2011) - sha256: 7e49fd93e9db98d57df31b789eb3cc46e94854958c86961514ff5cb1c7264071
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: could've sworn i had others, but no dice, must've actually cleaned disk at one point
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: back when i gave even less of a damn
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00073728 = 13.0499 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: well that's interesting, https://codeload.github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/legacy.tar.gz/v0.3.21 spits out a turd that's sha256: 8c62d735a13d89c25c35996c828bcee96aa6e00adcffd294c494ae8d8b5924bb
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform diff the two wouldja ? maybe there's a qntra story in here
kakobrekla: diff?
mircea_popescu: 383958 bytes
wywialm: los_pantalones, could you deliver by sepa?
wywialm: or is it cash-only?
wywialm: i.e. btc-only?
asciilifeform: aha mine had bins
asciilifeform: as well as src
asciilifeform: why? hell knows
mircea_popescu: ah that's wtf it is
asciilifeform: source - identical.
asciilifeform: no story.
los_pantalones: wywialm i could clear on atlas, would be pretty easy way to do this
los_pantalones: they have a 12/31 expiry option, would fit your time frame pretty well
los_pantalones: but i'm not sure it's the contract you want
wywialm: let me have a look at it
mircea_popescu: methinks he wouldn't be on atlas.
TheNewDeal: Im also interested in supplying if you cant find something that works
mircea_popescu: i had nfi they do anything besides grains anyway
assbot: Atlas ATS
mircea_popescu: oh not cme's atlasmarkets.com ?
los_pantalones: no, not that one
los_pantalones: these guys in nyc, i see them all the time
mircea_popescu: a nm then
mircea_popescu: im too old school for school o.o
wywialm: i can't see any reference to options or futures there
los_pantalones: no futs, options
los_pantalones: seems you are right re: no info though
los_pantalones: let me see if i can find a link for you
mircea_popescu: !up Mikayla
kakobrekla: !up Mikayla
kakobrekla: !up Mikayla
wywialm: TheNewDeal, you mean options?
TheNewDeal: Sell call. Ya
Mikayla: Was told by a friend to come here?
HeySteve: hello
HeySteve: yeah, it was me Mikayla
TheNewDeal: Cash only preferred, but may bend if its a well structured deal
HeySteve: Mikayla was curious about bits for tits
Mikayla: lol...
wywialm: ok, then. for start i would buy put option, delivering 100$ unescrowed, as a sort of unit test, at 0.25 btc per 100$ strike, i offer 0.03 btc, matures in 21 days. is it ok, los_pantalones or TheNewDeal?
assbot: I’ll pay for your tits pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
los_pantalones: first glance, too small for my interests but i'll look at the terms a bit more
TheNewDeal: Can you explain that in a different way please
los_pantalones: can you explain a little more why you want to do this way ?
TheNewDeal: Strike price $400, quantity .25 , fee .03?
wywialm: TheNewDeal yes
TheNewDeal: Expiry date is?
wywialm: i'd like to test if it is feasible have fiat delivered - that's why the form, i have not yet traded options on WoT that's why so small
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19550 @ 0.00074018 = 14.4705 BTC [+] {2}
TheNewDeal: Definitely not doing a fiat delivery at that price
TheNewDeal: Charge would be more than the fee
TheNewDeal: Will do btc delivery
wywialm: SEPA is free of charge
TheNewDeal: Thats a bold claim
mircea_popescu: what's a wire these days, like 50 plus whatever admin costs on one's side ?
wywialm: ok, at least most banks offer sepa free of charge in poland, i might be generalizing
TheNewDeal: Definitely not in n polland
wywialm: oh, seems that i'm generalizing too much now
assbot: Atlas ATS
mircea_popescu: wywialm you gotta appreciate business people keep chicks around a special room for the sole purpose of sending out mail and keeping track of mail and taking the cock. and they are paid a salary, and that's then taxed.
mircea_popescu: make your unit test 10k not 100.
asciilifeform looks in here and it's... actually on topic! bitcoin, assets. rich folks playing mathematical games.
asciilifeform goes back to work
Mikayla: ok what do I do? :)
mircea_popescu: Mikayla as per a, link to your previous work, then i'll give you a string you can take your pic.
Mikayla: previous work?
Mikayla: like dcc a pic?
mircea_popescu: "Has previously posted nudie selfshots on the web. You will be required to prove this by supplying a link.".
Mikayla: I don't have nude shots on the web?
mircea_popescu: this'd be your first time ?!
Mikayla: well I have a picture with black tape on my nipples?
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, that won't work.
mircea_popescu: gotta go bare.
Mikayla: well I will take a picture :)
Mikayla: I have done nude once, but it isn't online
Mikayla: it's in an art gallery
Mikayla: if it's even still there
mircea_popescu: Mikayla alrighty. one second
Mikayla: also you won't be able to tell it is me - slow shutter speed - "ghost shots"
wywialm: ok, TheNewDeal, what would be your price? would you deliver SEPA? let's say 100 EUR, strike 0.32 per 100 EUR, premium 0.04 btc?
mircea_popescu: write 0bc8870d, take a pic, post link.
Mikayla: where do I link it to?
mircea_popescu: you post the link here, it'll go in the article.
asciilifeform: lol, mircea_popescu is doing his whole pubkey ?
Mikayla: Please explain it basically. I only know how to dcc
mircea_popescu: Mikayla and we gotta be able to tell it's you, that's the whole idea.
Mikayla: unless there is a place where I can link such a photo to
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sha256sum "mikayla"
Mikayla: never done it before :P
mircea_popescu: Mikayla i guess you can email me the pic then.
HeySteve: there is Mikayla, picpaste or imgur work fine
Mikayla: HeySteve link?
HeySteve: well, you'll need a Bitcoin wallet too... you kinda jumped ahead
Mikayla: LOL
mircea_popescu: she's that eager huh ? nice trait :)
mircea_popescu: anyway, i got lunch now. wil be back in a coupla hours.
wywialm: los_pantalones TheNewDeal if physical delivery is too much fuss then btc settlement is ok
TheNewDeal: Definitely not delivering for a contract of maximum 100
TheNewDeal: Add a zero or two and ide consider
wywialm: cash settlement?
wywialm: i.e. btc settlement?
TheNewDeal: Yes, but give me the contract terms
TheNewDeal: Strike price, quantity, premium, expiry date
thestringpuller: ^- you trading options?
TheNewDeal: Considering it
wywialm: strike 0.0025 usd/btc, quantity 100 usd, 0.03 btc premium, 14.11 expires, put option.
TheNewDeal: Its not a put
BingoBoingo: !up Mikayla
wywialm: am i missing something?
TheNewDeal: If i sell you the opportunity to purchase btc at 400, im selling a call
TheNewDeal: You are purchasing it
TheNewDeal: Clear?
los_pantalones: i agree w/ that
wywialm: yeah, of course you are right, i should "deliver" (btc settlement) the quantity in case of put
los_pantalones: such tortured language
los_pantalones: can we take a quick step back
los_pantalones: what are you trying to do? what's the purpose of the option?
los_pantalones: what are you protecting ?
TheNewDeal: Just read what i said
mike_c: deliver in bananas, it's easier.
TheNewDeal: Were going to flip the terminology
BingoBoingo: !up Mikayla
assbot: PicPaste - webcam-toy-photo10-rU1NwxNF.jpg
wywialm: los_pantalones, let's say i'm protecting a hypotetical receipt of fiat
TheNewDeal: Strike 400 usd/btc (shitstamp) , quantity .25 btc, expiry nov 14, fee 0.055 btc
The20YearIRCloud: BingoBoingo: don't bash our Ohio mudhuts. They're 10x nicer than what Europeans call 'homes'
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: main problem with these huts is that the only industry for the occupants to work in is meth production.
thestringpuller: The20YearIRCloud: you're from Ohio?
thestringpuller: North or South?
The20YearIRCloud: Columbus area
wywialm: TheNewDeal, much too expensive, los_pantalones offered the same for 45 days not 22
thestringpuller: Ah. My mom grew up in Cleveland and Canton.
thestringpuller: Cleveland is slowly turning into Detroit.
The20YearIRCloud: It's been pretty close to there for a while. Cleveland is extraordinarily poorly managed
thestringpuller: I blame Ford Motors.
los_pantalones: haha, and we've come full circle
The20YearIRCloud: But not as bad as detroit, and Ohio has a pretty great senate/house that keeps the rest of the state from turning into a cesspool.
los_pantalones: options on btc are damned expensive
The20YearIRCloud: Akron/Canton is run by the mob
HeySteve: hey The20YearIRCloud, get any further with black soldier fly?
The20YearIRCloud: HeySteve: I really want to do it if/when I get property in the country
HeySteve: k I am running a trial at the moment, fish eating it
HeySteve: if I can eliminate feed costs this way, should help aquaculture business a lot
wywialm: los_pantalones, TheNewDeal thanks anyway for your offers
TheNewDeal: Ill think about a little longer
TheNewDeal: Im at work now
asciilifeform: '...This ELA technique is used to visually detect any conflicting compression levels in an "photo"; indicating composite fakery in an image... On 19 June 2014, in relation to discoveries published on my media fakery blog, my home in Shropshire was raided by six police/intelligence officers; only two of whom identified themselves. An undocumented quantity of electronics equipment, including modems, computers, me
asciilifeform: dia storage devices, and paperwork was seized. The actual grounds for my arrest was cited as "harassment". This concerned a suspected fake news story that had been exposed on my blog.'
asciilifeform: 'During the police interview -- both in the "informal chat" before the official interview itself, and during that formal tape-recording grilling -- I was probed by detectives on topics quite unrelated to my arrest. In wholly irrelevant circumstances, I was grilled over my role in "unlocking" these CPE, and in my motives for doing so. Not in any way relevant to the accusations filed against me. In interview, I b
asciilifeform: rushed aside the serious espionage implications of having backdoors in CPE; believing that -- for whatever reason -- everyone has a right to choose what software is running on electronic equipment installed in their own home or office. Nevertheless, I am expected to appear in court in a couple of weeks...'
The20YearIRCloud: asciilifeform: why has nothing more been said about that superconductor?
asciilifeform: CPE being 'customer premise equipment' - the modem orifices in question
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: that was my question to the rest of you
TheNewDeal: Wywialm you were actually interested in buying a put i see. I had it backwards
wywialm: but i too got it confused
TheNewDeal: wywialm ^
TheNewDeal: Are you sure?
wywialm: yes, i was incorrectly asking you to deliver through sepa while having in mind asking you to accept sepa delivery
TheNewDeal: Mp , how did you settle your usd options in btc only
wywialm: i might ask in name of mp, if i'm wrong he certainly will correct me - the options were on btcusd exchange rate and thus delivered 1 btc.
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, Mikayla will be back tomorrow after I've explained process further
wywialm: s/ask/answer/
TheNewDeal: Would it just be the differnce of (actual - strike) convertes into btc at current rate?
TheNewDeal: wywialm explain how delivery (btc only) would occur in your mind
wywialm: TheNewDeal, it would be the case if the options were on usd (that is approximately what i have in mind).
thestringpuller: TheNewDeal: ( strike - market price ) / market price
thestringpuller: or the opposite depending on call/put
thestringpuller: the above is all in USD
TheNewDeal: Yah opp for call
thestringpuller: when you divide it all out you get BTC denomination
wywialm: now usd is approx. 0.002788 btc per 1 usd, if strike for put is 0.0025 then if usd is lower than that you pay me (usdbtc_rate - 0.0025) x notional_quantity, am i right?
TheNewDeal: wywialm let's talk more about a december 1 delivery
TheNewDeal: Please for gods sake quote it in btc/usd
wywialm: sure
wywialm: i just thought it might be a good idea to quote it as x.eur is quoted
wywialm: los_pantalones, of course, 0.0025 - usdbtc_rate
TheNewDeal: If i were to write a call for a stock option. It would be quoted in stock/usd not the other way around
wywialm: well it is common to refer to premiums as % of underlying
wywialm: but they are quoted either in dollar terms or implied vol
TheNewDeal: Ive never seen that, but ive really only looked on finance.yahoo
TheNewDeal: Everything was priced in usd, all contracts covered 100 of underlying
los_pantalones: in markets that don't move 7.5% overnight
los_pantalones: yeah, worrying about the width as a % of the underlying is not a bad way to look at things
TheNewDeal: wywialm would you consider a dec 1 expiry?
wywialm: yes, i would - as i said i would even consider 60 days, but then it wouldn't be much of unit testing
wywialm: re: quoting. i imagined that if usd is the currency at, say, CBOE, and they quote options in usd, and here the currency is btc, we should quote options on eur or usd in btc and in usdbtc exchange rate :)
wywialm: we will perhaps return to that later
wywialm: now i have to go.
TheNewDeal: Ill be on later too
wywialm: bye
thestringpuller: just do it how MP did it
TheNewDeal: No shit, aye?
TheNewDeal: Just wanted to make sure I remembered how he did it
thestringpuller: that was more at wywialm
TheNewDeal: Gotcha.
TheNewDeal: Im just getting excited thinking about options
thestringpuller: good way to lose a lot of money
TheNewDeal: Agreed, but .25 btc underlying is tiny
TheNewDeal: Good chance for me to get some rep
TheNewDeal: Ide consider going up to 10, for the right price
TheNewDeal: And a strike that wasnt 10 % out of tge monay
thestringpuller: i don't fuck /w options no more
TheNewDeal: Theyre exremely useful for cash delivery
TheNewDeal: Problem with btc options is the convexity
TheNewDeal: Price jumps or drops by a factor of 10, everything gets fucked
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, jurov, ben_vulpes, decimation, (who else?) --- is there a reason to keep the json rpc apparatus in bitcoind ? imho all of its functions can be carried out by crafted command line arguments and parsing stdout...
ben_vulpes: at some point calling bitcoind cli args started talking to the json rpc api
ben_vulpes: with*
ben_vulpes: i don't know precisely when that was.
asciilifeform: am i the only one who wants that thing gone?
ben_vulpes: hardly.
ben_vulpes: ripping out is a grand idea.
asciilifeform: it's a hearnia.
jurov: asciilifeform: how do you want to communicate with the daemon?
jurov: signals?
asciilifeform: jurov: argv
mike_c: argv isn't the best cross-process communication strategy.
jurov: it§s running x days, you want to get getinfo()
jurov: how?
asciilifeform: there - signals
asciilifeform: but this is beginning to sound like actual work
ben_vulpes: arbeit macht frei
asciilifeform: nah, the good kind of work. the kind for which arbeit macht frei leaves precious little time.
ben_vulpes: as much as i'd like it gone, i'd also like something in the wild before the stoolies attempt to fork.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so far i got qt and ssl snipped. mega-triumph! lol
ben_vulpes: bubbles for stan!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this has exactly zero effect on the build - no sane person builds with those flags anyway
asciilifeform: but - less turd to read.
ben_vulpes: what else do you want to do to the thing?
jurov: yup. i am in, only it will take few days till i'll do the gpg-only mailman and assure myself it can go online
asciilifeform: what i personally would like is: the smallest subset of the satoshi turdball that will still operate on the network in the customary way.
BingoBoingo: !up Mikayla
asciilifeform: everything after that - is luxury.
Mikayla: hello :)
asciilifeform: but this - is essential.
ben_vulpes: rpc removal is essential?
ben_vulpes: * is rpc removal essential?
asciilifeform: so far, only those removals which do not require something built in their stead.
jurov: if you snip off the blockchain so that it just relates transactions, then most of the complexity goes away
jurov: but not sure this is useful
ben_vulpes: lol notrly no
asciilifeform: jurov: doesn't operate in expected way, no, then
ben_vulpes: well asciilifeform if you're willing to perform the surgery do it. otherwise, it'll have to wait right?
asciilifeform: first the basic delousing.
asciilifeform: surgery - after.
ben_vulpes: sounds like a decision to me
asciilifeform: the ms vc liquishit is to be burned as well.
asciilifeform: there is no reason ever to use it - for anything
asciilifeform: even virii can be built with mingw, with superior result in every and all cases.
ben_vulpes: why even bother with windows?
asciilifeform: i've no idea!
asciilifeform: one of you weirdos wanted the thing buildable under it
asciilifeform: forget who
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo if memory serves
ben_vulpes: he wants it to build on mac s/e as well
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Nah
ben_vulpes: ah well.
ben_vulpes: my mistake.
ben_vulpes: anyways. is bitcoin not here to also end m$?
asciilifeform: so can we zap the win32 crap?
mike_c: no
ben_vulpes: why not?
asciilifeform: what do we need it for ?
asciilifeform: bundling bitcoind in malware?
mike_c: because what is the average windows bitcoin user supposed to use now? the foundation binary?
ben_vulpes: the average windows user shuts the fuck up and uses unix.
ben_vulpes: gets the fuck out of bitcoin.
thestringpuller: sounds liek something larry page would say
thestringpuller: oh wait he did
mike_c: mhm. perhaps the average windows user gets the fuck out of b-a, but kicking them out of bitcoin seems a bit much.
jurov: we already decided to nix qt, so no avg windows user
jurov: i don't get this discussion
ben_vulpes: if qt's nixed, the average user's nixed as well.
ben_vulpes: this is a *tool* for people who *use tools*, not consumers.
mike_c: avg user can run armory on top of b-a bitcoind.
mike_c: maybe
ben_vulpes: avg user should throw down 200 dollars for a netbook and fucking run unix.
thestringpuller: they could always use multibit!
thestringpuller: or electrum et. al
thestringpuller: or bitcoinj
mod6: someone could make a worthy ui to interact with the baseline b-a bitcoind. then qt is out of core, and lives in someother project.
BingoBoingo: or cygwin
jurov: mod6 qt is neeeded only for wallet management
asciilifeform: thing is
ben_vulpes: win32 stuff isn't necessary to run the thing under cygwin, correct?
asciilifeform: anyone is free to grab this thing
jurov: if this is split off, qt is not needed
asciilifeform: and bolt on whatever
asciilifeform: but there is no reason for that crap to be part of the Koraktor
asciilifeform: (evil magic book)
mike_c: i am struggling to defend my position.
mike_c: perhaps there is no use case.
mike_c: the only thing i use bitcoin on windows for is watching wallets.
mike_c: what about that case?
mats_cd03: bitcoind on windows could live in qemu or whatever
Mikayla: not worried about trusting windows too much?
asciilifeform: once again - anyone who wants to run on winblows, or VAX, or Elektronika BK0010 - can add whatever kludges he needs to
asciilifeform: and it'll be between him and his gods
Mikayla: wouldn't linux be safer?
ben_vulpes: mike_c: watch wallets on blockchain.info
ben_vulpes: and watch addrs, not wallets.
mats_cd03: safety is relative.
ben_vulpes: mats_cd03: also illusory and elusive
Mikayla: Just takes one man, or a group, to excell in hacking and to pick you as a target
mike_c: how would you watch a wallet on blockchain?
jurov: mike_c i just pulled all the addresses from the wallets and imported them (into electrum)
jurov: *privkeys
jurov: and electrum can do the watching without privkeys, too
asciilifeform: i'll leave mingw in for now
asciilifeform: but the vs crap is gone.
asciilifeform: there is no reason for it, ever
jurov: it's about a year in production, no complaint from coinr users
mike_c: hm. i wonder if this would be a useful web service. upload your electrum/armory public key and it will watch your wallet.
asciilifeform: will it brush your teeth, too?
asciilifeform: and chew your food?
mike_c: anyway, fine, windows support no good.
mats_cd03: what would it do? send you an email when coins move?
mike_c: well, primarily it would provide web access to a watch-only version of your wallet.
mike_c: alerts could be part of it.
mike_c: if it gets hacked.. well, then you should create a new wallet for privacy.
mike_c: i guess. really who cares.
mike_c: premium version will chew your food.
mike_c: but you can brush your own teeth.
mats_cd03: scam.
mike_c: use case #1: a business could allow public web access to a wallet and interested parties would know it is solvent and where money is going.
bounce: asciilifeform: by the by, you familiar with "patch -u"? though there's really no shortcut for "delete this file", you still get to see the whole of what is being deleted even if it is the entire file.
asciilifeform: bounce: that is precisely what i was whining about
asciilifeform: bounce: i don't want to see it
asciilifeform: bounce: the turds clutter the patches. i want the latter - small.
bounce: could argue it's an oversight in patch. for collaboration it's still better to show what's being done than to just say "stuff got deleted" ('yes, but what then?')
asciilifeform: incidentally!
asciilifeform: this is yet another case of compounding failure.
asciilifeform: even the humble unix 'patch' utility - was not designed from birth for keeping the world small, 'fits in head'
asciilifeform: it spews turd.
asciilifeform: !up Mikayla
asciilifeform: !up Mikayla
Mikayla: I would like to open a bit wallet but not sure about the links I see online. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance
jurov: Mikayla: it's best to try them all
Mikayla: the way some of them look I don't know.... lol
TheNewDeal: Usagi will open one for you, just send him a,pm
undata: Mikayla: don't let someone else hold your wallet for you ^
Mikayla: is it best to pick on in your own country?
TheNewDeal: I kid, I kid
Mikayla: undata I'm not that stupid :) thank you :)
TheNewDeal: No such thing mikayla, its like software
TheNewDeal: I think bitcoin.org explains the differences
Mikayla: The fact that there are over 100 links makes me nervous
Mikayla: I really don't want to be screwed over
asciilifeform: Mikayla: what exactly do you hope to achieve, personally, by making use of bitcoin ?
asciilifeform: Mikayla: generally noobs do better if they can answer this question in their heads
Mikayla: receive payments
Mikayla: that's all it is for
assbot: Choose your wallet - Bitcoin
undata: Mikayla: define "own country"
Mikayla: a local website
Mikayla: opening all the links thanks
jurov: Mikayla: bitcoins are *not* accessed via website
Mikayla: considering any person can make a website I prefer to ask for reputable ones
jurov: you pick safe computer or appliacne
jurov: install wallet software
Mikayla: I appreciate the help for me the noob :)
undata: Mikayla: highest value here would be legitimate, not local
Mikayla: A friend suggested it and had to offline, that's how I ended up here and I'm trying to learn but a lot looks suspect
undata: and ensuring that what you downloaded is what was purported
Mikayla: okay got it. awesome.
undata: surely there's a trilema bootstrapping post
ben_vulpes: this is a pretty funny conversation given the previous conversations about noobs and bitcoin
jurov: Mikayla how do they looks suspect? can you explain an example?
undata: ben_vulpes: oh hey, btw. I will at some point use a fresh pi and thermal printer to print some paper wallets, then destroy the pi
undata: seem like a plan?
ben_vulpes: thermal printing's durable?
jurov: if you go so far then destroy the printer too
asciilifeform: undata: better destroy the designer of the turd (broadcom)
asciilifeform: undata: or the folks with the master key to the pi rng.
Mikayla: ben_vulpes they show different values
Mikayla: in the same currency
undata: ben_vulpes: that would be a consideration
jurov: asciilifeform: you don't have to use it, by default it is even switched off (raspbian)
asciilifeform: jurov: and what is used in its place ?
jurov: Mikayla: because there is no official exchange rate
undata: the qr code could be transferred to something more durable thereafter, maybe
jurov: asciilifeform: std linux stuff (keyboard or whatnot)
Mikayla: so best I wait for my friend tomorrow?
mircea_popescu: how goes Mikayla ?
undata: asciilifeform: that however would do the idea in for sure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have a patient for you!
mircea_popescu: do tell!
ben_vulpes: undata: live cd/usb, boot regular device in "silent" mode, print stuff.
davout: undata: dice + wordlist, use the pi to transform the passphrase into something you can send coins to
assbot: PicPaste - webcam-toy-photo10-rU1NwxNF.jpg
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu >> Mikayla <<
mircea_popescu: uh. what is that!
undata: davout: ah ok, that gets around asciilifeform's criticism, correct?
asciilifeform: davout, undata: nope.
asciilifeform: davout, undata: rng is used at other times also.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not a big fan of rpc.
asciilifeform: sometimes i despair, and think - what else will you folks agree to play with without learning how it works first.
mircea_popescu: so my vote is an unblocking no.
davout: asciilifeform undata it's the best way to remove any kind of prng from the key-generation process
undata: asciilifeform: less despair, more education
davout: signing is a different story
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see discussion about how at 0.5.3 rpc is sorta glued in, and will take some actual work to rip out
undata: asciilifeform: how best to generate a safe paper wallet?
mircea_popescu: im going through the logs nao
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the shitgnomes glued it in, to learn how, read source
asciilifeform: undata: safe from what
undata: asciilifeform: anything of which you think I should be wary.
mircea_popescu: !up tpt_toolbox
jurov: btw this is actually good food for thought - is there a process one can cryptograpically safely *on paper* generate public key (btc address) from private key?
mod6: Ok, so this is what we came up with for a Bitcoin Foundation charter: http://dpaste.com/0A9NGC9
assbot: dpaste: 0A9NGC9
asciilifeform: jurov: in principle - yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/10/BTAgent-cpe-backdoor.htm <<< this shit's pretty insane. cazalla i think we want to show some support ?
asciilifeform: jurov: church-turing.
mircea_popescu: jurov yes. but documenting it would be a very good thing to do.
mircea_popescu: anyone wanna write a qntra article titled "how to calculate your own bitcoin address, pen on paper only" ? it'd be a great thing.
Duffer1: i believe reddit beat you to that one
Duffer1: oh nm that was pen n paper mining
jurov: church-turing on pediwiki seems to be something unrelated
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 link beats claim ?
assbot: Church-Turing Thesis -- from Wolfram MathWorld
jurov: i had in mind RSA something.. multiplying 200digit numbers would be tedious but doable
Mikayla: hi mircea_popescu sorry was on a call
jurov: with emphasis on *doable*
mircea_popescu: not more tedious than 100 multiplications of two digit numbers
undata: maybe a pi image could be built which would help with the "by hand" calculations?
mircea_popescu: Mikayla make a proper pic will you.
asciilifeform: undata: or 'help'
Mikayla: how so?
TheNewDeal: ;;Ud pi
jurov: hmmm... and if we can admit 1990s desktop calculator...
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pi | Pi is an irrational number (meaning the digits never end or have a repeating pattern) that is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter...this ratio is a ...
mircea_popescu: Mikayla do you see the girls in the article ? they are clearly visible in good light. your thing looks is neither.
Mikayla: I wasn't sure about exposing my face and it is night time here :)
TheNewDeal: Street whores article?
mircea_popescu: Mikayla none of the previous girls died of face exposure so far.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal that's a different one.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: just do it how MP did it <<< wiser words were never spoken :)
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: Problem with btc options is the convexity <<< prolly the largest, right after "no actual spot"
Mikayla: will try. I use energy saving bulbs in my home which isn't very friendly with my webcam
Mikayla: I'm pro earth :)
mircea_popescu: so do it tomorrow in the sun, this place isn't going anywhere.
undata: asciilifeform: help may just be a calculator, no?
asciilifeform: mod6: why we need the charter thing, again ?
Mikayla: so I've wasted my time finding better light?
asciilifeform: undata: need calculator, use a pocket calculator.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what can it hurt ?
mod6: to outline the foundations mission
ben_vulpes: nobody's going to complain, Mikayla ;)
Mikayla: do you want clear quality to as the image?
mircea_popescu: Mikayla show me and ill tell you.
undata: asciilifeform: yep, as old as possible
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what can it hurt << cruft
Mikayla: my webcam may be too weak
jurov: to get 1024bits you'll need 400 dice throws. and lesser rsa is vulnerable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform didja read the thing ? it ain't cruft.
Mikayla: lol
asciilifeform actually reads
assbot: Romanian Dicelist pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: not 400 no
mircea_popescu: Mikayla all you got is a webcam thingee ?
Mikayla: but I look so good in eerie glow :P
asciilifeform: jurov: usg breaks 1024 without breaking a sweat.
Mikayla: I have an s4 but my fat friends foot stood on it
Mikayla: so...
mircea_popescu: Mikayla you're young, you look good anyway.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: argv isn't the best cross-process communication strategy. <<< this is true. and at least the best debugged anyway.
Mikayla: not winning with this eerie glow
Mikayla: im using my built in webcam
Mikayla: told you I'm new to this :P
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't a cross-process apparatus at all, sadly.
jurov: mircea_popescu: but the problem is, how to compute bitcoin address from it without exposing privkey to electronics
Mikayla: my code will be recycled...
mircea_popescu: Mikayla no, it's yours 4lyf.
mircea_popescu: jurov not a bad q.
mircea_popescu: !up vicdoc
mircea_popescu: !up Mikayla
asciilifeform: jurov: charles babbage's engine ?
mircea_popescu: Mikayla where you from anyway ?
Mikayla: ask no questions tell no lies :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so far i got qt and ssl snipped. mega-triumph! lol << weren't you supposed to work for nsa anyway!!1
jurov: sha2-type algo will work fine even with 100 bits from dice, but computation is tedious
mircea_popescu: Mikayla well somehow i don't think you hacked into a south african ip.
Mikayla: hush :P
mircea_popescu: do you know fluffypony ? he's really hawt!
bounce: such hax
Mikayla: maybe i'm a really fat guy?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd like this shit done, so six month from now i can get the damned book.
thestringpuller: Mikayla: your tits prove otherwise?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform okok
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i've seen fat guys with really big tits...
mircea_popescu: fluffypony lol good strat.
assbot: The Case of the Modified Binaries | Leviathan Security Group
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: smooth and hairless like the ones posted?
asciilifeform: tor exe diddler finally caught in the wild
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: what else do you want to do to the thing? << yeah this question scares me too.
fluffypony: asciilifeform: yeah was an excellet read
fluffypony: *excellent
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also i seem to be the only one here (afaik) with a 100 % working build setup...
mircea_popescu: so the data is in, my .5.x copies from early 2013 do not match the shas of the stuff available for download now, but if you diff the source it does match.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i kinda hope that i can put this down for a while after jurov proclaims a mailing list box that works to gpg spec
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and i can drop me turd there
Mikayla: sorry was on a call again
Mikayla: headed out with a gay friend tonight
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja get the 'git' crud out?
Mikayla: managed to find an angle without the eerie witch look
mircea_popescu: Mikayla what on call is that ? you videochat or what.
Mikayla: someone called me :)
Mikayla: on my phone :)P
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sort-of.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unpack, deturdulate, and diff -Nur oldturddir newturddir
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: why even bother with windows? << because satoshi was the sort of idjit that ran his workstation on windows.
mircea_popescu: it's sad, but it's true.
ben_vulpes: fml really?
mircea_popescu: yes. really.
ben_vulpes: how do--
ben_vulpes: nevermind.
mircea_popescu: i know. it's like the darkest deepest secret of bitcoin.
ben_vulpes: was he one of those "cryptographers" who run on windows?
asciilifeform: or wanted to pretend to be that sort, yes.
mircea_popescu: he wasn't a crpytographer at all.
mircea_popescu: not anymore than you're a rocket scientist, at any rate.
ben_vulpes: oh zing
ben_vulpes thinks
ben_vulpes: i'm pretty sure i only ever claimed to fuck around with the tools in us 'college'
thestringpuller: goo afternoon pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller goo pm!
kakobrekla: ben_vulpes just claim the downed pilot story and move on.
assbot: The Greatest Men Aren’t Necessarily The Happiest Men | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
Mikayla: why do I upload again?
Mikayla: need to washing my eye linger off me
Mikayla: haha
mircea_popescu: Mikayla just email.
Mikayla: #nomakeuptoplessselfie
Mikayla: not the other link?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, washing the code in bleach to get winblowze off is a good idea.
asciilifeform: i'da done this long ago, if i had any reason to
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: /window 42
mircea_popescu: Mikayla either way.
thestringpuller: Wow i need to get better at using irssi
asciilifeform: i'd like to plant the tree of 'koraktor' book of src, so when i actually have time to do the deed with it, it's there.
asciilifeform: (substitute name if anyone has name)
davout: mircea_popescu: "because satoshi was the sort of idjit that ran his workstation on windows" <<< did it even matter that much before bitcoin was invented anyway?
TheNewDeal: Satoshi wasnt a cyrptographer?
Mikayla: give meail or link pls
asciilifeform: davout: does washing matter if there is no one to smell ?
asciilifeform: davout: how about shitting in toilet instead of pants?
TheNewDeal: No. The answer is no
davout: asciilifeform: the answer to this question is less obvious than it seems
asciilifeform: davout: who said it was obvious.
Mikayla: on phone to friend agin.
Mikayla: en route to pick me up,
davout: asciilifeform: i said it seemed obvious, not that it was :-)
Mikayla: mircea_popescu link or email addy?
mircea_popescu: davout yes. gpg existed before bitcoin.
kakobrekla: the fuckin noise hole on this chick...
Mikayla: would you be talking about me?
kakobrekla: me? yes.
Mikayla sighs
Mikayla: just doing as instructed
mircea_popescu: <davout> asciilifeform: the answer to this question is less obvious than it seems << spoken like a tru frenchman :D
Mikayla: sent
Mikayla: ciao ciao
mircea_popescu: mike_c: because what is the average windows bitcoin user supposed to use now? the foundation binary? << the average bitcoin user is welcome to get fucked.
asciilifeform: ^^^^^^^
mike_c: yes yes, we agreed.
mircea_popescu: oh, i wanna be in bitcoin but i can't afford a computer lalala.
asciilifeform resharpens shears
mircea_popescu: this is like wanting to do options on 100 bux. no such thing.
mike_c: because everyone should come to bitcoin fully formed superuser.
mircea_popescu: mike_c in so many words, yes.
ben_vulpes: or make mistakes get burned and learn
mircea_popescu: why, SWIFT takes people off the street ?
asciilifeform: though, fat lot of good, if the n00bs get poetteringed instead...
mike_c: so why did mpoe-pr spend so much time on forums trying to guide noobs?
assbot: supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/plugin.py at master nanotube/supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor GitHub
ben_vulpes: mike_c: why, PR for mpex!
assbot: The Case of the Modified Binaries | Leviathan Security Group
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fuck em, the ycan have their five btc together and do whatever they do with it. it'll be like the 192.x.x.x ip space
mircea_popescu: mike_c 2010 is not 2014.
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: posted a few minutes ago, for some reason nobody commented
mircea_popescu: in 1700 you could be a senator by being a farmer in the us.
mircea_popescu: today, fuck you.
mats_cd03: woops.
mike_c: running a bitcoin wallet is not being in the senate.
mircea_popescu: running a secure one is, yes.
mircea_popescu: running a sorta-secure one is delegating the vote.
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: and yes, that particular circus trick is trivial, and the node operator is quite dumb to be caught so easily. come on, first pillage, then burn. patch exe only after typical usage pattern in captured packet stream! (indicative of luser - 'facebook', etc.)
mircea_popescu: sure, maybe your elected reps won't fuck you over. it's possible.
mike_c: yes, that i agree with. i thought it might be nice to have some wallet software available to the lower tier that doesn't phone home every time you open it and lose your coin everytime SSL gets probed.
mircea_popescu: so then they can download the FREE linux distro of their choice
mike_c: but it's fine, i capitulated.
asciilifeform: mike_c: 'things must be made as simple as possible, but not simpler'
mircea_popescu: o god no, untinkable, lifting buttcheek of couch!!11
mircea_popescu: so user unfriendly, srsly.
asciilifeform: free distro << poettering rubs his hands, cackles.
davout: mircea_popescu: "mike_c 2010 is not 2014." <<< you weren't there in 2010
davout: :p
mircea_popescu: davout yes, but the activity of 2011/2012 is based on the state of the world previous.
mike_c: listen you pack of elitist fucks, bitcoin is for the masses and dogecoin is going back to the moon.
davout: you have a point
mircea_popescu: just like the shit we're talking about here will be a thing in 2015 and then
mats_cd03: remember kids, examine the checksum before install. esp with tor involved.
mircea_popescu: mike_c only thing going to the moon is undata.
bounce: The Moon is Waxing Crescent (1% of Full)
mircea_popescu: and he has to pay a big... i mean long ... i mean thick price for it.
asciilifeform: mats_cd03, mircea_popescu, et. al: here's a little project i've procrastinated for, ~1 year now, that perhaps someone would like to pick up: read gpg pubkeys (from wherever - wot, keyservs, etc) through tor.
asciilifeform: and look for diddlanomalies
mircea_popescu: so that after i do that i can write an article about how tor is insecure ?
asciilifeform: other suggested experiments
mats_cd03: sounds easy. there are only a thousand exit nodes, no?
asciilifeform: set up honeypot, log in (successfully, via various protocols) to it through tor
asciilifeform: and then watch for the unaccounted for login.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this will only get lamers.
asciilifeform: ultimate project: wall of shame, hosted in neutral country, which displays all easily-parseable login/pw pairs from a few Gb/sec worth of exit node.
mircea_popescu: mod6: someone could make a worthy ui to interact with the baseline b-a bitcoind. then qt is out of core, and lives in someother project. << a good idea, but kinda what armory will end up being
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only lamers << it's a nature preserve for lamers, so far mostly untouched by zoologists.
mircea_popescu: whether they're aware yet or not.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform neutral country ? what are you, a dyslexig santaist ?
asciilifeform: shorthand for ru
mircea_popescu: mike_c:the only thing i use bitcoin on windows for is watching wallets. what about that case? >> i dunno, pipe grep ?
asciilifeform: host on blockchain telegraph, whatever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also on the list of surgeries : motherfucker memory management holy shit omfg.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mempool ?
mircea_popescu: i STILL suspect there's a couple unaccounted leaks in the code
asciilifeform: anybody ever bother to valgrind?
mircea_popescu: nobody that knows how to use valgrind.
asciilifeform: srsly ?!!
mircea_popescu: well the power rangers, but i have little faith.
asciilifeform: and here i was, thinking that someone actually gave a damn
mircea_popescu: depends what you mean by "give"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: after this is over, you gotta tell us which soviet calculator you've been using, since '11, for your bitcoin needs.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3PCG7SV.txt )
mircea_popescu: maybe once it's over in the sense of, we're all drunk in the retirement home.
TheNewDeal: The $900k coin days?
asciilifeform: perhaps one day we meet old woman, and she'll say 'i was a five-output NAND gate in mr p's bitcoin circuit...'
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, chick was just over, she stripped, and apparently left. now i have a sundress and a bra on my counter.
mircea_popescu: wtf is she and what is she doing there naked.
TheNewDeal: Hahaha
mircea_popescu: this nand gating ...
bounce: best irc
asciilifeform: well some fella did write 'i was hitler's valet' or somesuch
asciilifeform: obligatory:
asciilifeform: ;;google when computers were human
gribble: Grier, D.A.: When Computers Were Human (eBook and Paperback).: <http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7999.html>; When Computers Were Human: David Alan Grier: 9780691133829 ...: <http://www.amazon.com/When-Computers-Human-David-Grier/dp/0691133824>; The Age of Female Computers - The New Atlantis: <http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-age-of-female-computers>
mircea_popescu: mike_c: premium version will chew your food. << you know, i'm not personally that advanced, but having girly crack your pumpkin seeds/pistachio nuts for you is not so bad.
mircea_popescu: chewing food seems more for the very sick.
asciilifeform: people constantly ask for functionality that is quite equivalent to chewing food.
asciilifeform: it confuses me also.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: Usagi will open one for you, just send him a,pm << dudes you gotta stop with this "sarcasm" directed at noobs.
mircea_popescu: sarcasm is generally the lowest form of wit, but when addressed to people who openly admit not having a clue so therefore not being able to catch it it's just irredeemably stupid.
mike_c: confuses? it's quite simple, "chewing food" is relative.
mike_c: but i'm done defending the noobs. i'm not a complete noob anymore, so fuck 'em.
mircea_popescu: ok, that sarcasm was pretty good.
davout: lol
mod6: so speaking of n00bs. can we add a link to the log.bitcoin-assets.com page that takes a person to the first day of logs availble?
davout: ;;seen pankkake
gribble: pankkake was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 52 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <pankkake> here is 0.000195.
asciilifeform: thing is, we're not fucking the noob
mike_c: also, kakobrekla, low pri bug report: links_only is busted on logs.
mircea_popescu: mod6 it does that if you use the calendar.
asciilifeform: just preventing him (or rather, his chumpmeister) from fucking us
mod6: oh! ok
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: no reason why someone suicidally willing to take responsibility for the inevitable, can't add winblows support
asciilifeform: but - i won't. and i can't picture who will.
mod6: ahh, ic. thanks :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform generally, people who can compile it can also secure windows to a sufficient degree
mike_c: reason #342 why this should be v0.1
asciilifeform: secure winblows lol
kakobrekla: mike_c i see what i did there will fix.
asciilifeform: thing is, portability to winblows has costs.
asciilifeform: beyond mere weight
asciilifeform: e.g., wanna use your custom '/dev/random'? tough
mike_c: not tough. platform layer is not a difficult thing to implement.
asciilifeform: want raw block device access for weaning the thing off bdb? tough
asciilifeform: mike_c: aha and now you'll be up to your knees in microshit
mike_c: but isolated.
mircea_popescu: "Evidence of media fakery that implied corruption in the local health authority and indeed in NHS England. It was one of many similar fake news stories - viz the engineered "Mid Staffs Crisis" used to provide the pretext for rationalising and closing health facilities across the country."
mircea_popescu: asswipes.
undata: mircea_popescu | mike_c only thing going to the moon is undata. << maybe I'll luck out and Elon's overcompensating
mircea_popescu: undata you know i hear that's the appeal of the trannies ?
mircea_popescu: can be safely gay knowing you won't be splayed by too big a tool.
undata: ha
mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah isolated. from your friends and family.
asciilifeform: mike_c: isolated << if you want to write this, and sign it, who am i to say you oughtn't.
asciilifeform: but - i do so hate the sea of ifdefs.
TheNewDeal: Mp as far as the shitty spot price goes, couldnt one set up some actual usd deverable calls/puts at certain prices to protect against a rigged signal?
mike_c: <+asciilifeform> but - i do so hate the sea of ifdefs. << totally agreed on this.
asciilifeform cocks blaster, prepares to zap crud
ben_vulpes jumps and chortles in glee
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal notrly.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the idea is for people to be able to go "i support the bitcoin foundation" and for derps to go oh, this thing ? and for people to lol superiorly at their cluelessness. << fwiw i can see it.
jurov: options between x.eur/mpexbtc are doable. but no one is willing to put his balls into there
mircea_popescu scrolls back for mod6's thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9850 @ 0.00073863 = 7.2755 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "``THE BITCOIN FOUNDATION'' will endeavour to provide these, while fostering
mircea_popescu: community growth and development, under the general principle that if and
mircea_popescu: when any other thing conflicts with Bitcoin, that other thing must either be
mircea_popescu: discontinued or ammended in such a way as to no longer conflict with Bitcoin."
mircea_popescu: methinks amend takes one m
mircea_popescu: otherwise seems pretty cool.
mircea_popescu: shouldn't have something about budget ?
ben_vulpes: charter first, budget later
ben_vulpes: if there's a budget, something can be said about it
mircea_popescu: a promise should be made for accounts publishing at the least
mircea_popescu: to differentiate from the scam currently masquerading as a bitcoin "foundation"
ben_vulpes: well then the thing wants a treasurer as well.
asciilifeform: wai wat budget ?
ben_vulpes: 's what i said.
asciilifeform: budget for what? coffee?
mircea_popescu: bounties i guess ? i dunno. mostly to satisfy the people who would like to contribute but have no skills/time to offer.
ben_vulpes: dns, hosting
mircea_popescu: not like the chairs have to spend it. it can end up like fcuking princeton, owning a billion dolars in investments.
ben_vulpes: f9beb4d9.org << btw
asciilifeform: i'm not even convinced this needs hosting
thestringpuller: ^- would be interesting to not have it hosted anywhere
asciilifeform: just a bag of shit passed round'nround
asciilifeform: signed by, well, people
ben_vulpes: jurov's list at least
ben_vulpes: sure that's a slice less complexity
ben_vulpes: no site no css no problem
jurov: lol passing it as lore?
asciilifeform: passed like a bottle
assbot: USGavin, the lolcow pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
thestringpuller: +asciilifeform> just a bag of shit passed round'nround
mircea_popescu: "o, mp, what would be ~your~ suggestion for fixing this problem we invented ?!?!? huh ?!?!?"
thestringpuller: asciilifeform just a bag of shit passed round'nround << what's with the obsession with poop?
mircea_popescu: "i dunno... kiling you and fucking your mother again, maybe this time she spits out something functional"
asciilifeform: cpp code is what, exactly, if not excrement
jurov: thestringpuller: you know, anal stage
asciilifeform: show me the programmer who's passed anal stage
thestringpuller: ;;google jim leahy shit-isms
gribble: Jim Lahey's Shitisms - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R8At-Qno_o>; Shit Analogies 101 - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcQW04AQ_Ok>; Jim Lahey's Shit Storm - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjMkqFmRGL4>
jurov: as coined by norman mailer iirc
asciilifeform: and i'll show you a coprophagiac.
mircea_popescu: oral phase is AFTER anal phase yo.
asciilifeform: precisely.
mircea_popescu: where by after we mean afore.
mircea_popescu: oral stage's the first.
asciilifeform: for programmer - after.
assbot: Viata de care noi nu stim - YouTube
mircea_popescu: (du-te-n pizda ma-tii, go in[to] your mother's cunt)
mircea_popescu: !up brayden
mircea_popescu: !s sierra leone
asciilifeform: who can remember how to force 'diff' to create patch that removes binary files?
asciilifeform: without crapping in the output
ben_vulpes: diffing whole trees?
assbot: Biting Into The WoT Elephant (And IRC Nicknames) | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes; yes
ben_vulpes: meep.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i have no idea wtf he's saying.
pete_dushenski: problems!
pete_dushenski: they're everywhere!
pete_dushenski: sorta like oxygen, tis all around us.
asciilifeform: no one knows answer?
asciilifeform: because not only i, but anyone who'd agree to do this in my place, will need this answer.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do they have common suffixes?
ben_vulpes: the binaries
asciilifeform: trying to include a zap for the entire qt dir
asciilifeform: which contains png turdlets
asciilifeform: diff -uNr does not zap these
ben_vulpes: documentation for diffutils suggests --exclude or -x (pattern)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform you are good at the turdisms...do you have a list somewhere?
asciilifeform: no good.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i just want the cursed thing gone
asciilifeform: without having to specify it
ben_vulpes: command line hell
asciilifeform: or rather, its contents
ben_vulpes: my life
asciilifeform: i mean wtf, do i have to distribute perl scripts instead of diffs?
asciilifeform: and who will agree to run them?
ben_vulpes: assume no qt?
asciilifeform: i want a 100 percent mechanical a->b.
asciilifeform: using unix patch, fuckit
asciilifeform: if this is not possible, unix patch is retarded.
ben_vulpes: what is a in this context? 0.5.3?
asciilifeform: sha256 == aab1f8ea8c7f131ff69dfa3b9437ba35531018be760132dd6373f41a591f6382
asciilifeform: but it doesn't matter specifically
asciilifeform: just want to remove a dir with binaries, and have the resulting diff file reflect this fact
asciilifeform: in such a way that 'patch' applies it.
asciilifeform: try it with just a dir with a turd from /dev/null in it.
asciilifeform: */dev/zero
asciilifeform: or random, whatever
cazalla: mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: cazalla: http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/ <<<< cazalla this totally needs all the research you can throw at it. what the fuck is the story there, they got raped on the "undercover" work ? how ? why ? major point loss for the omni-impotent usg. <<< please to be sending tech/law leads to BingoBoingo
assbot: The mystery of the disappearing Silk Road murder charges
cazalla: jurov: cazalla how is cryptomoneyexpo different from all the other chumpferences? <<< it's not, it's a bunch of friends using bots to fill up their habbo hotel to bang coinfire outta 10k
mircea_popescu: cazalla good point
cazalla: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/10/BTAgent-cpe-backdoor.htm <<< this shit's pretty insane. cazalla i think we want to show some support ? <<< BB better suited to these leads
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> without having to specify it <<< ahhahahaha.
mircea_popescu: take a seat son.
asciilifeform: without having to specify the contents!
asciilifeform: want to delete turd by path.
cazalla: i mean, i could masquerade of having some understanding and write something up but i'd rather not
asciilifeform: not by magic
asciilifeform: but seems like posix diff is actually retarded, and cannot operate on file system basis at all, but only by lines!
mircea_popescu: diff only works by line.
mircea_popescu: there's some derivatives tho iirc.
asciilifeform: thought so.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, others: you must appreciate why this is necessary. it is direly important. our patch set must start with a known, traditional tree, and end with the end product.
asciilifeform: no manual monkey business, nothing specified 'in human language' other than 'run this like so.'
asciilifeform: or no sane man with skin in the game will use it.
asciilifeform: pedigree.
mircea_popescu: i don't dispute its important
mircea_popescu: im bemused by your apparent expectation for it to be easy
asciilifeform: did not expect easy. in fact, undertook this exercise partly from ulterior motive to demonstrate the sheer amount of braindamage.
asciilifeform: i want people to see what i spoke of when said 'cannot polish turd'
asciilifeform: on their own hides.
asciilifeform: 'flush_turds.sh' it is.
asciilifeform: until someone suggests alternative.
ben_vulpes: nope.
asciilifeform: incidentally, there's a larger lesson here. folks have been using 'version control' gizmos for so long, that approximately no one even notices that 'diff' is broken.
asciilifeform: don't believe? search the net.
asciilifeform: no complaints whatsoever, that i was able to find, about deleting bins.
ben_vulpes: no asciilifeform you've got it all wrong!
ben_vulpes: "don't commit binaries to VCS!"
mircea_popescu: yeah you don't understand how the world works.
ben_vulpes: "why?"
mircea_popescu: fucking russkies will be the end of the civilised world.
asciilifeform beats hare, teaches it to light matches.
ben_vulpes: "diff and patch can't handle binaries. so don't commit them, duh."
asciilifeform is floored by the stink of the turd he's stepped in
asciilifeform: 'don't commit binaries' - where do people keep bitmaps? up their arses?
ben_vulpes: oh no, they commit them.
asciilifeform: ...and?
ben_vulpes: along with database passwords
asciilifeform: what do the diffs end up looking like?
ben_vulpes: horrible.
ben_vulpes: people committing binaries are also using Github or other tools that paper over the horror.
asciilifeform: try to appreciate how i got here. i want --short-- diffs.
asciilifeform: that you, i, mircea_popescu, putin, whoever, can read.
asciilifeform: as in, actually read.
asciilifeform: short as in - not much more than levenshtein distance between the trees.
asciilifeform: if we have a meg of extraneous turd in a diff, then we're in 'infinity' in the one, two, three, infinity hierarchy of being.
asciilifeform: of weight.
asciilifeform: meaning, does not fit in head.
asciilifeform: meaning, we may as well be asking folks to run arbitrary binary turd that mr. sp4mz0r built in his cellar, for winblows 98.
jurov: asciilifeform: what about two diffs, one with only removed files
jurov: and other one with other changes
asciilifeform: jurov: i want a single 'nixed qt' diff, for example.
asciilifeform: and it ought to be about 1kb long.
asciilifeform: i'm getting 2MB !
asciilifeform: because png fucktardation
assbot: Modern medicine and the benefits of democracy pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform eagerly awaits suggestions for quandary posted earlier.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: article: 'the hunchback will straighten in the grave.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform patch diff to say "binary path/file snipped in principle" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha now we've got our own diff...?
asciilifeform: why not own os, own cpu, ahaha.
mircea_popescu: i just work here.
asciilifeform: !s spittoon
jurov: i still think having two patches is easiest way out
asciilifeform: with one of them 2MB?!!!
jurov: the larger can be easily verified that there are only removals
mircea_popescu: practically that's having one.
asciilifeform: consisting of unprintable chars!
assbot: The Spittoon - Pastebin.com
jurov: ok, so script then...
asciilifeform: ^ obligatory
mircea_popescu: !s obligatory
mircea_popescu: 140 is too many!
asciilifeform: 140 uniques?
mircea_popescu: what sort of twitter is this!
asciilifeform: and here's a thought:
asciilifeform: everybody's read of the old experiments with the dogs, the electrically-boobytrapped floor of the cages, and 'learned helplessness'
asciilifeform: one could reformulate the old vivisectors' conclusions in the following way:
asciilifeform: that any system where the 'patient' sees a blurred boundary between the trivial and the absolutely impossible - will produce the learned helplessness.
asciilifeform: 'don't commit binaries.'
asciilifeform: 'don't roll yer own crypto'
asciilifeform: !s science doesn't work
mircea_popescu: perhaps a point.
mircea_popescu: i srsly don't see the problem with a patched diff.
mircea_popescu: the practical problem, that is.
mircea_popescu: the theoretical problem is well obvious.
jurov: asciilifeform: what about outputtting ed format with added !rm src/qt/file commands? :DDDD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00073863 = 4.0994 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: lol asciilifeform is fuming
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 356.44, Best ask: 356.9, Bid-ask spread: 0.46000, Last trade: 356.91, 24 hour volume: 16273.08680258, 24 hour low: 344.34, 24 hour high: 363.71, 24 hour vwap: 355.938607705
mircea_popescu: lol "o let's sell all these <<confiscated>> coins"
BingoBoingo: mats_cd03: Interesting in writing a qntra piece or two?
asciilifeform cut gordian knot
asciilifeform will kick off 'bitcoin' tree by posting manifest of subset of original tree with turdlets snipped. anyone who wants to determine that these, in fact, came from original tarball, can do his own homework.
mircea_popescu: make sure you include adequately quotable quote in there.
mircea_popescu: first github block and so on
asciilifeform: github block?
mircea_popescu: you know, genesis github.
mircea_popescu contemplates how his handcranked, slave operated blockchain is actually self-emerging, as predicted by some knowledgeable people.
assbot: Logged on 24-10-2014 21:39:23; asciilifeform: https://codeload.github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/legacy.tar.gz/v0.5.3
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the joke being how your " kick off 'bitcoin' tree" is genesis-y
asciilifeform: no one unearthed a copy they're willing to certify as having been leached when new
asciilifeform: !up MosesEX
MosesEX: YAY
ben_vulpes: what's today's panic, MosesEX
MosesEX: what you mean by panic?
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for Yes on "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/ Odds: 40(Y):60(N) by coin, 42(Y):58(N) by weight. Total bet: 30.73541987 BTC. Current weight: 41,530.
MosesEX: does amazon use bitcoin
Duffer1: not that i'm aware of
Duffer1: they will eventually i'm sure
ben_vulpes: jurov and i bring a pm regarding treasury duties for a theoretical -assets foundation
ben_vulpes: ...to the forum
mircea_popescu: waitwut?
jurov: ^ was my reaction too
ben_vulpes: mod6 and i are states-based.
ben_vulpes: if there are donations, someone must be responsible for said donations.
mircea_popescu: a so jurov treasurer ? okay.
asciilifeform: unless donation is to buy me coffee
asciilifeform: then i can be responsible for drinking it
mircea_popescu: i thought bitcoins are for tits.
bounce: as long as you drink responsibly
ben_vulpes: well there are no plans for expenditures on the table atm
mircea_popescu: basically just hold on to 'em ?
asciilifeform: can't think of what part of this costs anything, really
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of any human endeavour ever conceived this much is true : better to have money than not.
mircea_popescu: jurov so you wanna be teh treasurer of btc foundation ?
ben_vulpes: pretty please?
jurov: moment i want to have a clue how we eventually switch to dispensing from the treasury
mircea_popescu: well they order it and you pay it
mircea_popescu: except if they order more than you got, in which case you throw an exception
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4446 @ 0.00073564 = 3.2707 BTC [-]
jurov: but this looks to strict p2p project
mircea_popescu: "this" ?
jurov: everyone in assbot l2 can publish patches
mircea_popescu: o, stan's work and the foundation are unrelated
jurov: can they ask from treasury, too?
mircea_popescu: which is why he's not getting any tits
mircea_popescu: i mean coffee
jurov: ahhhm
asciilifeform is now curious what foundation will do, if not this shit
ben_vulpes: be a target
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe buy you a complimentary book copy of the code ?
asciilifeform: it's gotta be more interesting thatn this
mircea_popescu: fuck mne if i know.
ben_vulpes: herd cats, write spec?
mod6: luckally, im good with cats.
mircea_popescu: maybe pay chicks to do lapdances for coder ppls reading the scipt
ben_vulpes: nfi really either
MosesEX: HFS+ is utter crap
mircea_popescu: have an official bitcoin watersports event ?
mircea_popescu: piss on people freely and abundantly for two days.
jurov: i want to ask for modest remuneration, like, 1BTC/year.
mircea_popescu: 1btc / year not to exceed 1% of funds collected ?
bounce: bidding war for treasuryship?
jurov: yeah with 1% limit
mike_c: i'll do it for 2btc/yr
jurov: heh
ben_vulpes: you're in the big zone mike_c :P
mike_c: just trying to win the bidding war
mircea_popescu: widding the binning wars!
ben_vulpes: wed the banging whores?
mircea_popescu: no, but bang the wedded whores.
jurov: truly a treasurer's duty :DDD
ben_vulpes: treasurer's duty's to audit the booty
mod6: :]
ben_vulpes: errant apostrophe
mircea_popescu: what's that mean, keep ear on pubis to detect internal queefs if and as they happen ?
bounce: that does imply a 100xbt donation drive every year
jurov: will make poof of reserves for reddit
mircea_popescu: bounce hopefully it will go "we got a lot of btc, give us more!"
ben_vulpes: or a zero payout to treasurer
jurov: ben_vulpes 1% is limit not threshold
ben_vulpes: well, negligible.
mircea_popescu: actually, maybe sponsor a worthy young lady to come to april conference. that's a decent way to spend foundation moneyz i say!
jurov: or the rectothermal-themed male beauty calendar?
ben_vulpes: mpex's paid enough to the worthy ladies already
mircea_popescu: jurov also.
ben_vulpes: soldering porn
mircea_popescu: The Soldering Soldiers - Anal Annealing Volume 8
mod6 torrents
ben_vulpes: would burn again
mod6: ha
mircea_popescu: maybe sponsor a bitcoin comic
mircea_popescu: generally, once there's a pile of money, stupid ways to waste it can be devised.
ben_vulpes: hahaha
jurov: we need cultural attachee then... any nominations?
ben_vulpes: chair duties
ben_vulpes: i'll just sit here and have the culture attached in my lap please
mircea_popescu: jurov the cockfest rules clearly say that no foundation can grow past 3 members unless it involves a good looking woman.
bounce: is there a general goal and or purpose for starting the hoard in the first place?
bounce: "there be dragons" is maybe a little weak in this context.
ben_vulpes: there's no goal for the hoard
mircea_popescu: bounce so that people who don't have the time or the skills to contribute can still contribute.
ben_vulpes: the point is to provide the opportunity for btc to flow in
ben_vulpes: and to have a contingency plan for that happening
mircea_popescu: generally the idea is to spend none, or else with very high roi.
ben_vulpes: let's not pretend anyone actually cares.
asciilifeform: how on earth can people without time or skills contribute?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sendtx
asciilifeform: say mr putin drops 10000 btc in the piggy
jurov: to bellyfeel the serenissima
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: primes
bounce: so, a bitcoin indulgence?
asciilifeform: how does that help ben_vulpes, or me, or jurov, or, or, crap out whatevers?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how would i know ?
ben_vulpes: it doesn't help, but not having the intake hole hurts.
mircea_popescu: if it does, it's better to have it than not
mircea_popescu: and until it does it can be safely kept
mircea_popescu: not like bitcoin deteriorates.
jurov: perhaps it can be used for loans for member in good standing
mircea_popescu: on bitfinex
jurov: haha
ben_vulpes: emergency asciilifeform gravity escape device
mircea_popescu: but seriously, old people in eastern europe have this thing, like a loan co-op
bounce tries to feel old. nope. no instant riches.
mircea_popescu: bounce nah they pay into it five bux or w/e each time they get a ss check, and then get a loan once a year to replace the washing machine or w/e
jurov throws the dices and launches the necessary ECDSA pen&paper computations
jurov: just about 300 multiplications, 400 sums of 256bit numbers
mircea_popescu: no mistakes now!
mircea_popescu: btw, a crc self-correcting system of computation should be devised.
jurov: not needed,they say the result can be easily checked with some 100 operations
mircea_popescu: these soviet jokes...
asciilifeform: and now...
asciilifeform: gentlemen, start your engines.
mircea_popescu: but why is it so small ?
mircea_popescu: seriously asciilifeform, who do you expect to take 19kb seriously ?
asciilifeform: you'll see
mircea_popescu: can't we put some pngs in there or something ? .o files ?
asciilifeform: incidentally...
asciilifeform: kernel: patch[28805]: segfault at 0 ip 0000000000403f35 sp 00007fffbc2fc8e0 error 4 in patch[400000+26000]
asciilifeform: ^ the gods love a joke
mircea_popescu: i just don't feel that stuff under 1mb can properly be called code.
mircea_popescu: more like a script. put some xml wrappers around it ?
mod6: asciilifeform: did you spend any time playing corewars?
asciilifeform: mod6: howdyaguess
mod6: its an old fav. good times.
asciilifeform: linked turd is fresh but includes only a simple turd excision - removal of qt
asciilifeform: just to demonstrate concept
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at 19kb it's eminently printable now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lelz
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu possibly should consider looking inside
jurov: ;;ident asciilifeform
gribble: Nick 'asciilifeform', with hostmask 'asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-53-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net', is identified as user 'asciilifeform', with GPG key id B98228A001ABFFC7, key fingerprint 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7, and bitcoin address None
mircea_popescu: !up WhiteCrane
WhiteCrane: whats up
asciilifeform: jurov is alert reader
WhiteCrane: is it possible to get bitcoin money the ski mask way?
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/37MTSBR.txt )
WhiteCrane: its a joke
mircea_popescu: ./scripts/qt/make_windows_icon.py ? srsly ?
jurov: WhiteCrane: not needed, we have internet
WhiteCrane: you know what ski mask way means right?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, it was there.
asciilifeform: incidentally, the 'chicken', if built, should produce a binary bitwise identical with original.
asciilifeform: because all that was done in patch 1, is remove ifdef crud
mod6: yah, cool. :)
asciilifeform: anyone here built?
ben_vulpes is reading first
WhiteCrane: how much bitcoin can i get for $4?
ben_vulpes: ;;calc 4 / [ticker --last]
gribble: 0.0111678811737
ben_vulpes: WhiteCrane:
jurov: any trick how do i clean the sources to leave only what's in manifest?
asciilifeform: with hands.
asciilifeform: or favourite scripting lang
WhiteCrane: is it possible to make a profit on bitcoin?
asciilifeform: e.g., awk
asciilifeform: this was the only way to not have the binary turdlets live in the mailing list set
jurov: cut -d ' ' -f 3- bitcoin-0.5.3-no-crud.sha256.manifest does
mircea_popescu: !down WhiteCrane
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, that was 'meow mix'
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: host ban?
mircea_popescu: remarkable, the guy's patience.
mircea_popescu: anyway, why bother with a ban ? let him be ground into either a shape or nothingness.
asciilifeform: chicken.tar.gz is proof of concept.
asciilifeform: anyone who thinks this is a waste of time - say.
asciilifeform: jurov's gadget, if he follows this suggestion, will be such that patch can be mailed to it, and if signature (must be detached, because gpg mutilates the plaintext otherwise...) passes, includes patch in a build process
asciilifeform: or simply in a mail-to-other-folks process
jurov: oh was thinking it will be for discussion
asciilifeform: also works
jurov: i see
asciilifeform: if someone wants to cough up a build script, go ahead
asciilifeform: i have, as some may know, other projects
ben_vulpes: sigs check
mircea_popescu: lol asciilifeform's getting post partum depression.
jurov: it builds
asciilifeform: congrats jurov
asciilifeform: incidentally, any gentoo user having problems with db4.8:
asciilifeform: BDB_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/include/db4.8/ make -f makefile.unix
jurov: yes did not occur to me to post
asciilifeform: jurov: cut -d ...... << be so kind as to include patch for CHICKEN instructions in your patch
asciilifeform: what more useful thing could there be, than correct instructions.
jurov: bitcoin-bitcoin-a8def6b/src/bitcoind chicken/src/bitcoind differ: byte 41, line 1
jurov: maybe debug info?
jurov: show what?
asciilifeform: strip'em
gribble: 3.598564026507623E10
jurov: now they are identical
asciilifeform: there we go.
asciilifeform: diff output of readelf or objdump if you give a damn why this happened
jurov: line numbers
asciilifeform: lol, there's still wx crapola in there!
asciilifeform removes barf bag from under keyboard, pulls pin
jurov: um..i forgot to patch at first
jurov: now recompiled with patch, stripped binary different
assbot: --- origdump 2014-10-25 01:53:15.339116615 +0200 +++ patchdump 2014-10-25 - Pastebin.com
jurov: some template riffraff
asciilifeform: methinks it's from nixing qtui.h
asciilifeform invites everyone still awake to read patch, see if 'chef chopped the wrong carrot'
jurov: i am inclined to suspect boost expands __line__ somewhere
asciilifeform: boost needs to burn in hell.
mod6: yeah, im havin the same problem.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31896 @ 0.00073812 = 23.5431 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00073968 = 3.5505 BTC [+]
assbot: dpaste: 1Q2VHWT
asciilifeform: mod6: able to build original ?
mod6: this is a good point. lemme see.
asciilifeform predicts 'no'
jurov: boost-1.52.0-r7 here
asciilifeform: build with 'period' libs
asciilifeform: or all bets off
mod6: asciilifeform predicts 'no' << correct.
mod6: anyway, same error.
asciilifeform: first - build original.
asciilifeform: then - hunt gremlins.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ideas for what, if anything, to do to checkpoints?
jurov: gotta go, tmrw waking early and afk most of the day
asciilifeform: goodnight jurov
jurov: 'night!
assbot: FUNKER530 » Military Videos And Veteran Community With Army, Navy, Air Force News. » Jihadist Attacks NYPD Officers With Axe, Shot Dead
asciilifeform: lol, they took the carcass away in a police car ?!
asciilifeform: (traditionally in usa it is done by an ambulance)
ben_vulpes: where are you reading that?
asciilifeform: nowhere. watched the film clip
asciilifeform: from above link.
ben_vulpes: ah, no bw here.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: tried building the turd from earlier?
mod6: i think he bounced.
mod6: im gonna give it a shot with some older libs
mod6: ok built.
mod6: now will 'clean' and apply patches
mod6: ok, built with patch, np: http://dpaste.com/080PFXN
assbot: dpaste: 080PFXN
asciilifeform: congrats mod6
mod6: hehe forgot that the host i'm on is new. needed the libs that ben_vulpes listed in his script.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15790 @ 0.0007411 = 11.702 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform hopes that folks have the sense to think about the merits of the approach, rather than simply start doing it
mircea_popescu: PeterL what' scoopbot do ?
cazalla: qntra down
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: ideas for what, if anything, to do to checkpoints? << you mean blockchain checkpoints ?
mircea_popescu: user-configurable only, set to default = rnd
asciilifeform: as in the seed nodes
asciilifeform only really hot and bothered for one patch (beyond all the chopping) - split off private key operations to $redacted machine connected via optoisolator.
PeterL: mircea_popescu: scoopbot is a replacement for penguiker
mircea_popescu: ah right.
PeterL: I think it is almost ready, just testing it right now
asciilifeform: ^ if anyone has above patch please share...
asciilifeform: doscoin.
mircea_popescu: "A lot of people follow their own faiths. Most were indoctrinated since birth. That makes it very easy to believe the dogma. Yet, how in anybody’s right mind could they, as an adult, suddenly be told that the magic man in the sky says you need to start wearing a dress (even though you’re a dude), put your face on the ground five times a day and pray, and oh yeah, kill all the non-believers? Not happening to anybody
mircea_popescu: that’s anywhere near sane. These sick dirt-bags had wires twisted in their heads, and they were frustrated, but they weren’t Muslims."
mircea_popescu: the logics in here are fabulous.
mircea_popescu: totally, how could a dude wear a dress!!1
mircea_popescu: i think agent indignant cracked this case wide open.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, qntra being dossed? it's up and down
mircea_popescu: cazalla yup.
mircea_popescu: punkman bot ? :D
mircea_popescu: PeterL "Then in 10 months there will be 1`000`000 shares and the share number will be inflating at, if the paper makes 0.1 btc profit that month and the shares trade at 10 P/E, then the price will be 0.000012 per share. " << something missing in there ?
PeterL: what did I miss?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, needs somethin after and ?
mircea_popescu: doesn't gramatically parse
PeterL: ah, I see it now, there should be a number between the at and comma, 1% per month?
mircea_popescu: course i think the most interesting thing in there will be the nonlinear effects due to the numerous feedback loops.
PeterL: other than that, does the analysis make sense?
mircea_popescu: for instance : the more popular/relevant/powerful it becomes, the more likely it is to attract share buyers, authors and income. all three.
mircea_popescu: but two work one way, the third the other way
mircea_popescu: it does yes.
PeterL: feedback loops make it hard to get a good number for the future
mircea_popescu: anyway, i think as designed this share price is eminently modelable, to great modelling benefits
mircea_popescu: will obviously be a lot more interesting to work on a history than trying nude predictions
PeterL: designed or not designed?
PeterL: did they design the price or just leave out design and let it fall where it may?
mircea_popescu: the share is designed so as to work an interesting way.
mircea_popescu: because the contract is written that way
decimation: asciilifeform: is that a picture of stierlitz in the upper right of the anti-soviet-portrayals-of-hollywood image you linked? if so, hilarious
mircea_popescu: dude wtf is it systemv or systemd
mircea_popescu: !s systemv
mircea_popescu: !s systemd
mircea_popescu: holy shit i surrepetitiously renamed it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00074286 = 6.9457 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: json rpc api: out!
mike_c: PeterL: did you see my take on it?
PeterL: yes, it looked good
mike_c: i think we ended up in the same ballpark
PeterL: as close as one could expect
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: system v is a classical unix
asciilifeform: ;;google unix system v
gribble: UNIX System V - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V>; The UNIX System -- History and Timeline -- UNIX History: <http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix/history_timeline.html>; What are System V Unix and SVR4?: <https://kb.iu.edu/d/agjs>
asciilifeform: decimation: stierlitz << looks quite like it. that was my thought.
asciilifeform: decimation: not so easy to rip out of 0.5.3. see log.
asciilifeform: will have to be done, though.
asciilifeform must note that there is only so much turdsmithing he is willing to do without a good reason.
decimation: asciilifeform: it would be interesting to run turd through valgrind
asciilifeform: whatchawaitingfor
decimation: that guy who inspected the toyota embedded computer had a whole lecture on code coverage/testing/complexity tools
asciilifeform: i always hated the emphasis on those
asciilifeform: because the only genuinely curative pill is: fits-in-head.
decimation: yeah, I agree, like you need a computer that tells you what fits in your head
decimation: I like the templeos guy, he has a fixed number of lines of code for his project, and wants to make it smaller
asciilifeform is actually rather sure that 'boost' itself leaks.
decimation: asciilifeform: I have more 'learned helplessness' w.r.t. programming that drives me nuts: 'don't use goto'
decimation: the other day I was testing a pile of python code that was driving hardware, and I wanted to just skip X lines
decimation: can't do it, 'because bad'
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: tried building the turd from earlier? << got started, ran out of bandwidth in dive bar
ben_vulpes: moving slowly, endeavoring to grok and verify each and every stemp.
ben_vulpes: step*
ben_vulpes: but -- friday night, now stealing time away from familial sabbath drinking party to irc
mircea_popescu: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
decimation: apparently our ddosing friend is also busy
mircea_popescu: !up duduqa
mircea_popescu: get in the wot, eh.
TheNewDeal: Mp whats it called when you double your bet in a 50/50 game, every time, until you win (or lose a large sum)
kakobrekla: martingale
PeterL: lets you win a tiny amount or lose it all
assbot: Cryptsy and Shavers Sued by Victims | Qntra.net
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: system v is a classical unix <<< i know. apparently somethign shorted in my brain
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform is actually rather sure that 'boost' itself leaks. << oh shit you know what that's prolly it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44956 @ 0.0007435 = 33.4248 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: did anyone get asciilifeform's no-crud manifest to check?
asciilifeform: find . -xtype f -print0 | xargs -0 sha256sum > ../bitcoin-0.5.3.sha256.manifest
asciilifeform: while in src dir
asciilifeform: i suppose i should've thrown that in there.
asciilifeform: ah well.
asciilifeform: ^ crud manifest. for no-crud, similar
decimation: I was using sha256sum -c
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00074416 = 2.9766 BTC [+]
assbot: netstat -a Active Internet connections (servers and established) Proto Recv-Q - Pastebin.com
cazalla: getting hit with xrumer type comment spam too since around time dos started
mircea_popescu: xruner lol
mircea_popescu: that shit still exists ?!
asciilifeform: 'Hey, I have been looking to buy xrunner but can't find it. I have tried spelling it different ways. Anyone able to direct me?' --- first 'google' hit
mircea_popescu: tcp 0 0 23.235.236.98:http www.fraudalertservice:38410 SYN_RECV << all sorts of lulz like that.
asciilifeform: amazing company.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
decimation: lol 140.31.15.118 << usg
asciilifeform: no chumpnet without a few of those can be considered complete.
mod6: so slashing out rpc coudln't have possibly been that easy. but it compiled and ran fine, it seems, just no way to get info without re-adding these options as command line args. that might take some time.
mod6: anyway, not that i'm gonna keep going that direction for now, just wanted to kinda poke around and see a bit.
asciilifeform: mod6: check out what the command line cmds actually do in 0.5.3
asciilifeform: mod6: you've created a deafmute bitcoind
mod6: they're all rpc args it looks like
asciilifeform: correct
mod6: yeah, call it hellen keller
asciilifeform: mod6: when shitgnomes glue their crap on, they use paste with broken glass.
asciilifeform: can't just gently peel it off.
mod6: well, i guess she was blind or whatever, so lol
asciilifeform: or it would've been peeled off long ago.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mod6 actually, could it be made to work so as to simply spit specified streams as it runs ?
mod6: yeah, it seems that way ascii
mircea_popescu: start it with particular switches depending on what you want it to spit out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is it gonna transmit tx via polling too? lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how you mean ?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform mod6 actually, could it be made to work so as to simply spit specified streams as it runs ? << not 100% positive but it seems that some of the debug stuff almost does that when turned on fully.
asciilifeform: well, presumably you may occasionally want to transmit a tx
mod6: but.. we'll figure something out, yeah
asciilifeform: or generate an addr
asciilifeform: the correct solution is that (now unix-only) turdcoind will listen on a tty. serial tty.
mod6: int ret = CommandLineRPC(argc, argv); << lollertron
asciilifeform: (nonblocking fopen)
decimation: ^^ agreed
mod6: i forgot how obnoxious some of this code was.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so make it work like top basically ?
asciilifeform trying to remember why he was even doing this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu aye
mod6: i think i just tried to put it out of my mind.
mircea_popescu: this may be an idea ctually.
mircea_popescu: mod6 it's nightmare fuel with a side dish of fridge logic.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you gonna meld pinentry in there too ?
asciilifeform: pinentry?
asciilifeform: for privkey decrypt?
mircea_popescu: well, for everything you do.
asciilifeform: why? that belong on the other side of optoisolator
asciilifeform: where tx is baked
mircea_popescu: so actually make it a two machine thing ?
asciilifeform: if doing this, why not do correctly
mircea_popescu: fucking open source mpex, what is this.
asciilifeform: and no need for bdb, boost, turdolate on other box
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