Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-08-29 | 2014-08-31 → ↓
asciilifeform: must assume this happens, whether 'tor' or simply playful isp / backbone operator
asciilifeform: see also earlier discussion of swallowing rsa signatures of people you don't know
asciilifeform: same applies here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9425 @ 0.00084908 = 8.0026 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3846 @ 0.00084905 = 3.2654 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do. <<< this is only meaningful in a centralist approach.
mircea_popescu: we're decentralized over here.
mircea_popescu: difference being, between how a soviet rocket works and how a school of salmon works.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18372 @ 0.00084825 = 15.584 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4028 @ 0.00084497 = 3.4035 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is - these salmon want - a rocket. and so will have to do some things they're unaccustomed to.
asciilifeform: while remaining salmon, sure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18869 @ 0.00084497 = 15.9437 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: The great hazard of being salmon though is being recognized as to delicious to simply render as biodiesel by every living thing inclined to pescitarian consumption
cazalla: well, they do swim against the current
assbot: midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement
ben_vulpes: forks are how bitcoin-core dies. quit burning fuel trying to prevent the inevitable.
ben_vulpes: "Bitcoind core itself of course mostly tried to accept both forks and let the stronger one win." << sounds like the sort of thing a "core" "dev team" should really address - maximum fork size < utxos? mhm.
ben_vulpes: " My dislike of other mining nodes is a consequence of directly correlated forking dangers of alternative mining code, and I think we both know that." << one of these days i'm going to get left behind as reward for my courtesy of loyalty to the power rangers i can feel it coming but maybe if i complain a lot in public maybe the inevitable won't happen
ben_vulpes: "I respectfully question how you can authoritatively champion mining code written primarily in another language entirely." << because fuck the reference implementations.
ben_vulpes: evening vex
Vexual: 'evening good sir
ben_vulpes: great logs tonight
ben_vulpes applauds
ben_vulpes: top notch
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how's the coffee ?
punkman: dobro jutro
Vexual: hi punk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00084497 = 13.3505 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8076 @ 0.0008495 = 6.8606 BTC [+]
assbot: Parov Stelar - Booty Swing - YouTube
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 503.06, Best ask: 504.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.67000, Last trade: 504.0, 24 hour volume: 7779.59236845, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 507.673992263
atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 30d-Vol: 1.64M 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 197
atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23999999 = 0.72 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: looks like conformal co. passed the 'test.' << with flying colours!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp. << sounds aboot like http://contravex.com/2014/07/31/y-combinator-the-american-idol-of-venture-capital/ but less original
assbot: Y Combinator: The American Idol of Venture Capital | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: <ben_vulpes> also: if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor << too good!
assbot: Charlie Shrem Hopes to Walk Free After Guilty Plea Deal
assbot: Mr. /CharlieShrem, in taking it in the pooper like so http://t.co/qZe3na3Zd7 only proved his mousy illiteracy http://t.co/556Zm8Lku4
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: you win
pete_dushenski: this round
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Win what?
pete_dushenski: the marbles
Vexual: your link post arrived first
assbot: German publishing house Heise showing how modern Journalism is done: OpenPGP Keys for all their journalists. http://t.co/DVwZQpOrnk (ger)
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
pete_dushenski: Vexual: o hey
pete_dushenski: so sydney...
pete_dushenski: hipster spots are fine, but classics are better
Vexual: i'll assume you've been drinking all the martinis, and have or want a girl or boy on your arm
pete_dushenski: well… have. and yes.
pete_dushenski: more looking for something unique
Vexual: get up pearly and catch the ferry to manly where youll find doyles on the wharf, gesture to the bacon and eggs
Vexual: find chinatown for lunch, dixon house has a foodcourt, you'll be smoked out with burning meat and spices, jostle for a seat with the asian kids, feels like hongkong
assbot: Doyles on the Wharf Restaurant Reviews, Watsons Bay, Australia - TripAdvisor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9424 @ 0.00085299 = 8.0386 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: prolly
assbot: Dixon House Food Court Restaurant Reviews, Sydney, Australia - TripAdvisor
pete_dushenski: so far so good.
Vexual: at night, head to the rocks, theres a german spot there, 2 litre beers and bratwurst and snitzel
Vexual: old cobbled streets, these days with lights
Vexual: then theres a jazz spot a stumble away, where you can drink all the martinis
Vexual: they all have halal options, and if you dont get jazz, they play blues
cazalla: check out "the block" at redfern
cazalla: Vexual will vouch it's tops
Vexual: gentrified by hipsters these days
pete_dushenski: the block is the aboriginal thing?
assbot: Diane Whittaker interview The Block: Stories from a Meeting Place SBS Redfern Interactive Documentary
Vexual: youll also find cafes, tech startups, and old gangsters
Vexual: when an aboriginal kid died at police hands they rioted with vengence
pete_dushenski: we're not staying far from there
Vexual: dont high five any cops
pete_dushenski: we're just at the south tip of hyde park
pete_dushenski: unless the cops high five me...
Vexual: :) it's all good
cazalla: redfern isn't what it was so don't worry too much
Vexual: when are you going?
Vexual: ive excluded dinner spots over 2btc with waiting lists
pete_dushenski: december
cazalla: drop bears in season
Vexual: sydney is hot in december
pete_dushenski: lol so i hear
Vexual: melb might be hotter?
cazalla: not unless heatwave
Vexual: if you wanna go 5 star you vould try quay
pete_dushenski: historical averages have melbourne 5-10C warmer
pete_dushenski: quay looks seriously premium
cazalla: melb is pretty much the same temp as sydney
cazalla: winters are a little colder here, i've lived in sydney (maroubra) and that's the only difference, anecdotal of course
Vexual: wha urbanspoon wont tell you is the cigar list is epic and girls should dress slutty
cazalla: tbh i'd fuck sydney/melbourne off and go to tassie
Vexual: er sexy
Vexual: foodies paradise
pete_dushenski: “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
pete_dushenski: “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
pete_dushenski: “Because I was afraid.”
Vexual: king island cheese
pete_dushenski: who doesn't like a fine cheese?
Vexual: not i
pete_dushenski: ;;google tassie
gribble: Tassie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tassie>; The Silver Tassie (play) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Tassie_(play)>; Urban Dictionary: Tassie: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tassie>
cazalla: bruny island cheese nicer
Vexual: ooh
Vexual: never tried
pete_dushenski: a yes. tasmania.
assbot: Bruny Island Cheese :: home
Vexual: goo in pinot and vine leaves? yes please
pete_dushenski: just looking up ferries from melbourne to tassie: 10.5 hours!
Vexual: your rabbits prolly command a higher price in tassie, people apprecieate good meat down there
cazalla: pete_dushenski, bring you own food if you ever take spirit of tasmania
cazalla: Vexual, i wonder if i can bring them in
pete_dushenski: plus bruny island's shop is clear on the other side of the island from devonport
assbot: L.P.D.: Libertarian Police Department - The New Yorker
cazalla: you can always fly to hobart
Vexual: cazalla, they prolly already have rabbits there
cazalla: Vexual, they do, a breeder i bought a british giant from drove all the way to tassie to get them from a woman that breeds them there
cazalla: taking out might be fine, nfi on bringing them in, they went through all our shit when taking the car across on the boat
Vexual: anyone vauum packing them and flying them to resturants?
Vexual: yeah eat em and get new ones
cazalla: dunno, i did read the industry is dead, something like 100 farms reduced to 2 due to costs
Vexual: theres costs, and theres value
cazalla: i think it's due to calici and costs of vax
assbot: Rabbit meat farms disappear due to virus and costs - YouTube
Vexual: i guess you dont have that problem in your backyard
cazalla: not yet
Vexual: well it couldnt get in
Vexual: but you know about intensive farming
Vexual: a terrier run around the paddock should do the same as suburbia
Vexual: put your house in the middle
Vexual: get some plum trees and do plum rabbit
cazalla: that sounds yum
cazalla: when we move, i want to build some type of enclosure so they can run around and effectively be wild
Vexual: ).05bc, air express
cazalla: i sell you?
Vexual: learn bees too
Vexual: yeah ill buy
cazalla: not worth my time at .05
Vexual: yeah, but in time
cazalla: i planned to do bees in the spring but i'm putting it off until we move, i can't adhere to the regulations they set for doing it here
Vexual: my butcher has rabbit, and i know the value, im talking of value adding
cazalla: how much do they charge?
Vexual: i think its just south of 10 bucks a kilo
cazalla: that's cheap, prob intensively farmed
Vexual: and thats a long transport
Vexual: how big does your freerange zone have to be before you can call them wild?
punkman: wild doesnt have zone
cazalla: i figured like 1/4 acre or something
punkman: you ever try wild hare?
Vexual: :) some of these cattle stations could call their beef wild
cazalla: punkman, no but i'd like to
Vexual: never tried hare
cazalla: red meat yeah?
punkman: yeah all dark meat
Vexual: arent they just big rabbits?
Vexual: oh
cazalla: nah they are totally difference
cazalla: different even
punkman: I'm not really sure about the taxonomy
punkman: but they are considered a delicacy around here, cuz we ate them all
Vexual: lol
Vexual: there you go caz, big fat hares t whever punk is
Vexual: you'll prolly get a fucking government grant
cazalla: it's an idea, they aren't prone to calici or myx if memory serves
punkman: haven't heard of anyone farming them
punkman: they don't like a crowd
Vexual: terriers will keep em lean
Vexual: and they wont dig out
Vexual: cheap ammo for harvest:wild
Vexual: thats less like fraud than spoofing your bitcoin client version
pete_dushenski: ;;rate ben_vulpes 3 runs van-ads live from the 504
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ben_vulpes has changed from 1 to 3.
pete_dushenski: ey looks like stephane dun approved of my translation. i'll take it!
assbot: InfoSec Education: Because Stphane Bortzmeyer Is Lazy. And I’m Not. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
Vexual: lowenbrau for bratwurst the basement for jazz
Naphex: http://i.imgur.com/gDohTUB.png - I call this artistic chart, "Saved By The Cache" :)
Vexual: oh, and just across the road from the asian place is the markey where you can find cheap electronics and aussie souveneir tshirts with vulgar slogans, 3 for 10
pete_dushenski: Vexual: nice. ty.
cazalla: all made in china
cazalla: this the markets Vexual?
Vexual: i think the kangaroo scrotum coin purses are made in oz, but largely, yes
pete_dushenski: time for sleeps. g'night b-a!
Vexual: Naphex: what site? looks similar to "spam fail"
assbot: Were Going To Enjoy This Cocaine-Fueled Mason Jar Rocket Ride For As Long As It Lasts | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
assbot: Researchers: Panda Faked Pregnancy To Get More Bamboo | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
Vexual: nothing quite like the onion
BingoBoingo: Better than the Times
Vexual: full fucking effect
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00085477 = 9.6162 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: only chinese vets could claim a panda faked a pregnancy
Vexual: the actual pregnat panda, the one that pissed on the stich has been hung
Vexual: ;;google erowid mason jar
gribble: Erowid Psychoactive Vaults : Bong & Pipe FAQ: <https://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/faq_bong_pipe.shtml>; Erowid Mushroom Vaults : Cultivation Tips: <https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation17.shtml>; Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Storage in CO2: <https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info3.shtml>
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQLAhNlbfQ reverse cronology and the price of safrole
kakobrekla: <punkman> dobro jutro < lol what got into you
punkman: feeling balkan today
kakobrekla: well dobro jutro to you too ;)
Vexual: what time is it there kako?
kakobrekla: 12.27
Vexual: bacon or bacon?
Vexual: my heart
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1229 @ 0.00085473 = 1.0505 BTC [-]
assbot: 15 Year Old Who "SWATTED" Gamer Convicted Of Domestic Terrorism; 25 Years To Life In Federal Prison - National Report | National Report
cazalla: i guess he wasn't behind 7 proxies
Vexual: i dunno why he's crying, outcomes coulda been worse
punkman: maybe they are tired of all the swatting
kakobrekla: coulda been wrose?
kakobrekla: worse*
kakobrekla: like what, life in prison?
assbot: Merriam-Webster Adds Anti-Masturbation Word to Their Dictionary : FAPSTINENCE | Stop Masturbation Now
cazalla: it's fake btw
Vexual: its a job
cazalla: not that, the swatting article
Vexual: yeah, they might have told him about the"fucking with the police" ward
kakobrekla: what is this another onion ?
Vexual: everythings onion
cazalla: yeah, sorry kakobrekla, Vexual is right
Vexual: not quite
Vexual: but the onion does serve some truth with that bullshit flavour you love
cazalla: !s nationalreport.net
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: National Report is like the Onion only stupider. Basically just made up stories.
jurov: ;;later tell MolokoDesk if tao_jones has working replacement of ;;calc I am all for having it here
gribble: The operation succeeded.
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, tao has a number of calc functions... some are listed here.. there are others
assbot: Tao_Jones Quickstart
RagnarDanneskjol: I have all the modules sitting around somewhere - will get them to you this weekend
kakobrekla: BingoBoingo sounded like texas to me
Vexual: .bait
BingoBoingo: ;;bait
gribble: Error: "bait" is not a valid command.
kakobrekla: just use the fly fishing rod.
BingoBoingo: !t m s.limbs
assbot: Quest for vision is a great blessing.
Vexual: either was my wrist hurts
Vexual: i see ykyo there lurking
Vexual: dya think he might develop a sense of humour?
fluffypony: !up csshih
fluffypony: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'fluffypony', with hostmask 'fluffypony!~fluffypon@coreteam.monero.cc', is not identified.
Vexual: missgivings aside theres lessons unleant
fluffypony: !up csshih
fluffypony: csshih: ping
csshih: fluffypony, hi
Vexual: !down fluffy pony
Vexual: bwahah
fluffypony: csshih: question - since my one SC51 has grown legs, I'm looking at replacing them with the SC52d. any thoughts? what's the alternative for AA singles?
csshih: zebralight dominates in that category imo
csshih: you looking for high-ish cri?
fluffypony: it's definitely the brightest
Vexual: grown legs? what do your dogs do?
fluffypony: and 4 day run time at 2.1 Lm is insane
fluffypony: Vexual: we're talking about flashlights, not dogs :-P
Vexual: grown legs means gone?
Vexual: presumably stolen
fluffypony: yeah I would imagine so
Vexual: u might need something with d's
Vexual: and a lens that makes ophtamologists rub their hands ith glee
kakobrekla: !up Ukyo
kakobrekla: so how come you are still here?
Vexual: lol anus
jurov: <mircea_popescu> [02:52:59] but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing. << hahaha. actually, we kept original design done by scrat
kakobrekla: did you have another design done?
kakobrekla: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 35 minutes and 50 seconds
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: kakobrekla, only tuned logo so far
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3312 @ 0.00052471 = 1.7378 BTC [-] {32}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2585 @ 0.00051042 = 1.3194 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: Inside one of the world's largest bitcoin mines - The CoinsmanThe Coinsman
kakobrekla: different from the one last time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00085329 = 18.1751 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 9.57940004 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 833 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.59377130 BTC to 15`114 shares, 10545 satoshi per share
mod6: %tslb
atcbot: Time Since Last ATC Block: 1 hour(s), 0 minutes
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re: 'coinbase insurance' post - little story. recently i had occasion to rent a box at a bank (storage of various paperwork for firm.) the contract was a hilarious read. bank only insures a box for up to 25k usd. and specifically excludes damage from robbery, fire, water... virtually anything.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell vexual lee scratch perry - what a guy.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
FabianB: $mpexstatus
empyex: FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.ws (805 milliseconds), mpex.bz (606 milliseconds), mpex.co (813 milliseconds), mpex.biz (584 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (error)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 70 @ 0.01170512 = 0.8194 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 24 @ 0.0217227 = 0.5213 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: !t l s.mpoe
assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
ben_vulpes: !l m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00085329 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the insureds will always complain about inadequate coverage, and the insurers will always complain about social inflation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00085469 = 6.5811 BTC [+]
The20YearIRCloud: safe deposit boxes only have the safety of being in a somewhat controlled environment
The20YearIRCloud: There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 69 @ 0.01069994 = 0.7383 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00085665 = 21.6732 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: re: safe deposit box << My bank's terms say: "We will not have any liability to you or any third party for incidental or consequential damages. If an arbitration proceeding is commenced, evidence that tends to prove that something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost because we were negligent, intentional did anything wrong or
decimation: failed to exercise ordinary care. Nor will we be required to prove that the loss was not our fault."
decimation: What has happened to banking in the US is parallel to the "substitution calculations" done by usg for inflation - ie a ground beef patty with filler is the same as a well-cooked steak.
decimation: chetty: do you have any amusing links for us?
chetty: decimation, my net was down, I am behind on my reading today
decimation: chetty: no problem, I always look forward to the interesting nuggets you have on offer
chetty: <decimation> well the good part is I got a lot of work done on Eulora today :)
asciilifeform: decimation: something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost << conclusion: bury your goods in the forest. fuck bank.
asciilifeform: even ignoring the traditional devil of 'fdr gold confiscatorwagen' (tm) - bank essentially gives itself permission to steal whenever.
The20YearIRCloud: thus why i hate the idea of safe deposit boxes
The20YearIRCloud: my preference would still be a safe sunk into a concrete wall in a basement room that can't be easily accessed
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: bad idea. in many quite probable scenarios, one loses access to 'own' property first.
asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom
The20YearIRCloud: So what's the best option?
The20YearIRCloud: air/watertight container in nowhere?
asciilifeform: again - depends on answer to above question
asciilifeform: (please don't answer it here!)
The20YearIRCloud: Let's say you have a honus wagner card
The20YearIRCloud: in an airtight holder
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: you own properties right? how many potential hidey-holes are there?
asciilifeform: again, depends not only on the 'what' but 'from whom'
The20YearIRCloud: Plenty , but the problem there becomes the idea of how you access it in a time of emergency should it ever be needed
The20YearIRCloud: Granted nothing I own has substantial value
decimation: asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere
The20YearIRCloud: One good thing with modern technology is the premise of doing waht they did in breaking bad and putting a 55 gallon drum in the middle of nowhere and record GPS locations
chetty: if you own a bit of property (not really but thats another story) there is a paper trail that shows it ...how you gonna hide anything?
The20YearIRCloud: Like decimation said, it depends on who you're hiding it from
asciilifeform: if enemy knows you have $goodie, and you are captured - might as well mail it in to the crown treasury now - avoid burned starfish later
decimation: us persons simply have no access to 'allodial title', not even as a rental
The20YearIRCloud: i look to what people did during the yugoslovian war for modern examples of waht , and what not to do
The20YearIRCloud: There are states that are working towards true land ownership
asciilifeform: also understand why archaeologists still turn up buried jars of, e.g, roman gold.
The20YearIRCloud: ND and WY i think are two states that allow a person to buy absolute land, with no further taxes involved outside of day of sale, with no government recourse
asciilifeform: treasure - is usually a result of folks who bit the dust without ever getting to make use of the $goodies.
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: generally those states (like nevada) use the words "allodial title" to mean "pre-pay your land tax"
The20YearIRCloud: And in some cases, those states are pretty hands-off when it comes to private property
asciilifeform: forget present-day law. the pertinent question is 'who knows that you have $object'
The20YearIRCloud: That's likely always the best defense
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property
asciilifeform: very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away
asciilifeform: if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice
asciilifeform: and buy the obligatory set of new passports / favours
asciilifeform: but if you must:
asciilifeform: here's a recipe i shared with al schwartz once
chetty: <asciilifeform> if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice//++
asciilifeform: build a capsule, of the smallest adequate size (al suggested inconel or hastalloy for the material. not cheap - but then again, it'll be a small fraction of the total cost of project)
asciilifeform: capsule must have positive buoyancy when you're done filling it
asciilifeform: weld it shut.
asciilifeform: attach anchor, with sonophone-triggered explosive bolt on chain.
asciilifeform: sink in international waters, record position.
asciilifeform: sonophone trigger should only answer (with 'pop' of anchor chain) in response to key.
decimation: asciilifeform: re: raising an army: The scale of humanity today is such that being a 'land baron' is almost impossible. Consider Mr. Yarvin's quote-of-a-quote: " As the laws of King Ine of Wessex famously put it: We use the term "thieves" if the number of men does not exceed seven, and "brigands" for a number between seven and thirty-five. Anything beyond this is an "army."
asciilifeform: keep key in head.
decimation: hope bolt works after time passes
asciilifeform: i don't know who al might've shared the recipe with, but u.s. navy funded almost exactly this scheme as a mega-project a few years ago.
decimation: when the population is several orders of magnitude less dense, "me and my army say so" is a more realistic source of power
asciilifeform: perhaps it was an obvious idea.
The20YearIRCloud: how do you use a signal that will penetrate the water?
decimation: sound waves can go thousands of miles underwater
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: hydrophone on wire.
asciilifeform: lower it to the thermocline.
The20YearIRCloud: i guess i missed hydrophone part
Namworld: So I was browsing wikipedia for fun, when I found something funny. Can you spot it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nocturnal_animals
assbot: List of nocturnal animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: 'programmer.'
asciilifeform: !s night old enemy
Namworld: eheh
asciilifeform for the record doesn't own anything worth the cost of ocean capsule.
asciilifeform but likes the idea anyway. a few km down in sea is the closes thing nature gives us, afaik, to a 'trap door function' for physical goodies.
asciilifeform: make sure capsule has enough excess buoyancy when triggered to rip itself out of the crud that sunken objects inevitably embed themselves in over time.
asciilifeform: also ensure that the hidey-hole can be found without recourse to satellite navigation.
asciilifeform: ^ might be the hardest part
decimation: asciilifeform: what about "find granitic megalith (like Yosemite), build hut, dissolve deep hole using HF, then fill with concrete?
asciilifeform: drilling a hole creates a very distinct density anomaly that ground-penetrating radar sets (ask a construction co. that deals with underground pipes) readily turns up.
asciilifeform: regardless of what you fill it with later - will read differently from natural rock.
decimation: good point. Notwithstanding the logistics issues. The advantage to your sea-vault is that it could be (in theory) sunk with submarine, which would probably be difficult for any advanced gov't to track.
asciilifeform: no need to buy a submarine
asciilifeform: small sailboat would suffice.
asciilifeform: to deploy device, just chuck it overboard.
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed, modulo lack of interest in being followed, etc
asciilifeform: if you have enemies who will follow your sailboat around in the atlantic, you have other problems that must be dealt with first.
asciilifeform: capsule can also be flown to its resting place.
decimation: like a sono-buoy
asciilifeform: (building a device that can fly back - exercise for alert reader.)
jurov: um.. but with increasing amount of ocean trash, won't you have a problem to locate the capsule once it surfaces from $ kilometers?
asciilifeform: jurov: include beacon.
asciilifeform: (triggered on anchor release, naturally.)
decimation: or sonar beacon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2508 @ 0.00085583 = 2.1464 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: don't drop the treasure near 'SOSUS'
decimation: which raises the question, is a reasonable hydroarray a feasible addition to said small sailboat?
asciilifeform: no need for this. a simple strobe light should suffice for night search.
asciilifeform: (after capsule pops to the surface)
decimation: true, especially with cheap 'night vision' gear
asciilifeform: if you have an object that is worth, say, 100k to hide and retrieve, go ahead and follow recipe. but also consider the easier 'sell it and run with the money'
decimation: I suppose if the purpose in hiding the object is simply to escape the gulag, it would be better to start planning your escape now
asciilifeform: i later learned that v. n. chelomei (famous soviet rocket designer) proposed the placement of atomic bombs near u.s. east costs using a scheme much like this. (official story - it was vetoed as barbaric)
asciilifeform: by admiralty
asciilifeform: 'we fight like men, not thieves in the night'
decimation: better yet an undersea missile in a tube
asciilifeform: *coasts
asciilifeform: if i recall, he also suggested they be placed in the 'great lakes'
asciilifeform: with idea being, no need to bring them to surface before firing
decimation: in retrospect that kind of "proposal" sounds more like a 'limited hangout' kind of operation
asciilifeform: (at the time, u.s. had industry, and a good portion of it was in that region)
decimation: I suppose if they were close enough to cities that would be feasible
jurov: afaik nukes need periodic maintenance.. would it really be feasible to do it on seabed every so often?
asciilifeform suspects that proposal was vetoed as laughable because the nukes in russian embassies make it redundant.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was about to point that out, it would be much simpler to rent a 'safehouse' and fill with nukes
asciilifeform: jurov: tritium booster capsule is good for ~20 yrs.
asciilifeform: the point of the proposal, according to legend, was to specifically make use of the water.
asciilifeform: not simply as a hiding place, but as the weapon
decimation: ah, water = fusion fuel
asciilifeform: as steam, to wash the factories with.
asciilifeform: the americans, for some reason unknown to me, pre-empted this project by destroying own industry.
asciilifeform: (why? ask them)
asciilifeform: back to topic - if you really must hide physical objects, read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories.
asciilifeform: note that neither 'gps' nor its soviet equivalent existed at the time.
Apocalyptic: "read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories." // any particular book in mind ?
decimation: you quoted a story about how they recruited 'agents' in those territories?
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: there's an account in english-language 'the sword and the shield' (mitrokhin) of one swiss cache that was dug up when he tipped off the local authorities.
asciilifeform: if you somehow learn where one is - don't touch it. they were all mined.
Apocalyptic: ty, will look that up
asciilifeform: worth reading solely for the 'geocaching' craft.
asciilifeform: (i.e., how to bury, given that you will only be able to find the location again using geographical clues - and trees, buildings, etc. can disappear over the decades)
asciilifeform: but really this is one of those 'games where the winning move is not to play.'
asciilifeform: if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time.
decimation: re: underwater nuke << use tried, worked well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y53vDnNPiA4
assbot: Wahoo and Umbrella - Filmmaker recounts nuclear test - YouTube
decimation: s/use/usg/
decimation: The intention might have been exactly what that video shows: wash away all the people in the city, then occupy
asciilifeform: usg also had, in that period, a fixation with gigantic naval battles
asciilifeform: (when 'war game' simulations revealed that all american ships would perish within hours, they started rigging the 'games')
Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time. // terrible as in wasted ?
Apocalyptic: i've probably wasted more time on lesser occupations
asciilifeform: not just time.
asciilifeform: satan preserve you if anyone learns you had something worth using this procedure on.
Apocalyptic: oh, I see
asciilifeform: enemy will flay you and everyone you call a friend, to try to learn where it is.
Apocalyptic: It's more out of curiosity than out of potential usefull procedures I may apply in the future
asciilifeform: soviet 'treasure burial' teams have created some very interesting (if dangerous) finds for future archaeologists.
kanzure: lana sator has been doing some of that archeology already
asciilifeform: and i can hardly imagine that other nations didn't crib from their recipe.
kanzure: exploring various abandoned soviet particle accelerators, etc
assbot: , , , ... 18+
kanzure: wha?
asciilifeform: kanzure: nah, those're plain old ruins
decimation: asciilifeform: usg nuclear bombing ships: yeah there's the famous 'nuclear attack on fleet' bomb series at the bikini atoll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv9yS0tRFhI
assbot: Project Crossroads Nuclear tests near the Bikini Atoll - Baker Shot 1946 - YouTube
asciilifeform: anyone who wants to see these ruins - suitcase, airplane, don't wait for the scrap dealers.
asciilifeform: take a geiger along.
decimation: in vegas off the strip there is a 'nuclear testing museum: I recommend going if you find yourself there.
decimation: when I went there was a fellow there who apparently was part of the crew that would enter the underground 'cave' formed by an explosion
assbot: Project GNOME - Unrelated to WIPP...but nearby
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, on a related note what's your opinion about 'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew ?
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: he printed a large number of variations on 'sword & shield', most repeat themselves in a genuinely dreary way
mircea_popescu: this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: much of the material stolen by mitrokhin was either boring, or too juicy to print
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic do you know it ?
asciilifeform: everybody knows that one.
Apocalyptic: this looks like it was printed first, allegedly in 1990
Apocalyptic: mircea, I'm asking whether it's worth a read, I don't have nor know it
mircea_popescu: i meant the joke
Apocalyptic: I don't
mircea_popescu: cia sends mole to inflitrate kgb. this is apparently successful, but nothing of value is ever obtained.
mircea_popescu: cia sends replacement mole. this also is apparently successful... buit... again
mircea_popescu: by the 5th or so replacement there's a distinct impression with upper cia management that the soviets are like... sending complicated insider jokes over the mole wire.
mircea_popescu: finally a high level defector is taken into a manager's meeting, fed somon fume and asked politely
mircea_popescu: he confirms that yes they knew all about al of them, explains some of the insider jokes
mircea_popescu: "mr devektorovskyi, what are we to do then ?"
mircea_popescu: "i dunno... maybe stop sending niggers ?"
mircea_popescu: what the FUCK has some schmuck by the name cristopher to say about the inside of the kgb ?
asciilifeform: based on supposedly-actual story, where russians noticed that staples in certain passports failed to rust.
asciilifeform: cristopher << brit. mitrokhin surrendered to the brits.
asciilifeform: muppet, who was given the job of cranking out a tabloid-grade book supposedly based on the 100kg or so of stolen paper.
mircea_popescu: "inside the genovese family, by derparian herparistarian." wtf already. no armenians in sicily.
mircea_popescu: anyway, one is well advised to evaluate his level of interest on such topics. if it's a passing casual worth 5k words then skimming one of these pulpy offerings is maybe fine. if serious enough to remember names, then probably skimming the original papers is a better bet
mircea_popescu: rather than reading the same "us girl next door in a sheet = roman matron" story re-written over and over 500 times.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very few of the original papers were ever made public as such
asciilifeform: and the authenticity of the ones that were - is, naturally, questionable.
mircea_popescu: srsly when i saw you discussing indexing and searching pdf documents i thought this is what it was for - all that crap is pdf-digitized.
mircea_popescu: outside of digging through secret service archives, why the fuck would anyone put up with pdf.
asciilifeform: some. of the purported crap. yes.
asciilifeform: russians, accustomed to carrying around terabytes of scanned w4r3z for a generation, prefer 'djvu' - for which there is really no substitute.
decimation: djvu is a pretty amazing 'paper' compression tool. proprietary "paperport" works very well too
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
asciilifeform: (fully documented format, originally, afaik, crapped out by 'bell labs')
asciilifeform: 'djvu', even on an aged box, scrolls so quickly one almost can believe he has a microfilm viewer.
asciilifeform: a fat book takes <5 MB typically.
asciilifeform: if you have an 'ocr' system, the format allows for an searchable text 'track.'
decimation: to be fair I think there are methods of using good compression with pdf too. My main point yesterday was about searching the text, for which pdfs are not necessary. after all, if you ocr it, then it ought to exist as a .txt file
asciilifeform: afaik patent trolls succeeded in more or less exterminating acceptable compression for scanned books. djvu was devised by folks who didn't care to comply.
asciilifeform: present-day ocr is notoriously inadequate for scanned historic documents, esp. of poor quality or non-latin scripts.
asciilifeform: plus one generally wants to keep the photos.
mircea_popescu: this would have been a perfect application for ai
asciilifeform: ocr performed on 'djvu' document typically inserts an ascii text track, along with 'bounding boxes' internally
mircea_popescu: "given this string and this set of photos, find the string likelies"
asciilifeform: so document becomes quasi-searchable while viewed in the customary way
mircea_popescu: sadly... no ai.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I agree, 'djvu' with a text-track would be a pretty good format
mircea_popescu: maybe with quantum computing.
asciilifeform: decimation: it's already in the standard
asciilifeform: modern 'neural network' ocr - at least for latin alphabet - is 99+% accurate. sadly this is not enough to dispense with the original images.
mircea_popescu: i meant "for any script"
mircea_popescu: it's MACHINE intelligence after all neh ?
mircea_popescu: this is where it should shine
asciilifeform: yes, we'd all like 'a pony.'
mircea_popescu: i'd like a fluffy one! :D
asciilifeform: 'i even made a pony-monkey hybrid to please you! what's with all the screaming. you like monkeys, you like ponys. maybe i used too many monkeys... isn't it enough that i ruined a pony making a gift for you!'
decimation: asciilifeform: do you know of a reasonable gui tool to search and index djvu's with text?
mircea_popescu sayz sed! awk! then re-reads the gui part, ponders, gets depressed and leaves.
jurov: indexing with sed/awk, rly?
ben_vulpes: jurov: *shrug*
ben_vulpes: indexing the blockchain? sed and awk!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what is the objection ?
decimation: mircea_popescu: sed, awk works fine if you want to search your entire corpus every time
mircea_popescu: and if you don't you can make them make an index file.
ben_vulpes: ain't none
decimation: this is true, seems like it should be a 'solved problem'. I think some implementations of 'hadoop' do exactly this
dignork: decimation: Lucene probably
mircea_popescu: decimation i think the only reason it isn't a solved problem is this sort of argument : http://contravex.com/2014/08/26/infosec-education-because-stephane-bortzmeyer-is-lazy-and-im-not/ ie "usability". once you add that fuzzy requirement smart people get bored and leave,
mircea_popescu: leaving the mess to be handled by the sort of people that make guis.
decimation: true. making a good gui is difficult and thankless work
mircea_popescu: no, it is impossible and thankless work. difficult is one thing.
mircea_popescu: but a good gui is a provab le impossibility. "make me a very hot woman that still wants to be my girlfriend instead of say that guy's"
jurov: remembering names and most used options of gnu text suite is an impossibility, too
decimation: jurov: agreed. I'm always having to consult find, grep, xargs, etc man pages
mircea_popescu: well depends how much thought you put into it
mircea_popescu: i don't readily remember the names of all the women i've been with either.
mircea_popescu: on the upside, once you get it done you can forget about it.
decimation: heh yeah, which results in sites like this: www.commandlinefu.com/
mircea_popescu: "Create a random file of a certain, and display progress along the way."
mircea_popescu: SYNTAX ERROR!
mircea_popescu: MISSING PARAMETER AFTER "certain". please read your commandlinefu documentation and try again!!11
mircea_popescu: and who the hell has cowsay installed omg.
Apocalyptic: "Random data is generated by encrypting /dev/zero" // a curious way to generate random data
jurov: i was intrigued why it isn't possible for computer to keep asking for missing pieces until the task is fully defined
jurov: "Please define `random'"
jurov: would be fund to watch its users
jurov: *fun
mircea_popescu: "random"
jurov: "Random means in no predefined order"
jurov: "Error, please retr with positive definition"
asciilifeform: 'error - not a typewriter' << actual
jurov: lp0 on fire
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea jurov
asciilifeform: lp0 on fire << saw this alive
asciilifeform: (not the message. the condition.)
asciilifeform: mis-spent youth.
asciilifeform: 'usability' << is not necessarily a nonsense word. consider the difference between the linux and bsd userland utils
asciilifeform: in the latter, considerably greater consistency of flags
asciilifeform: but yes, normally when people whine about 'usability,' they want - pony.
asciilifeform: i.e., instrument with user interface of a pencil, but somehow not the functionality of pencil.
asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'
mircea_popescu: (the cunt also)
mircea_popescu: oddly enough.
asciilifeform: on which end.
mircea_popescu: on both ends.
mircea_popescu: dealing with the fallout is learned, but using the things is innate.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, pencils are horribly unintuitive interfaces. think of all the great drawing in the world, and the poor user buying a pencil in the shop will draw what ? a cat ?
mircea_popescu: this old world sort of nonsense can not endure my friends! i am making a company that will revolutionize drawing!
asciilifeform: -- said herr daguerre
mircea_popescu: i just walked into that didn't .
asciilifeform: did. lol
asciilifeform always found it interesting that people whine if they try to use his computer, but never think to borrow eyeglasses and then complain
asciilifeform: obligatory:
assbot: Loper OS » Programmer’s Editors, Illustrated.
asciilifeform: (moral, for the thick, is that an equivalent of the profession 'optician' does not yet exist for these machines)
asciilifeform: and may not ever exist.
mircea_popescu: dude you and your vi hate.
mircea_popescu: but actually... i find myself using nano a lot moar these days
decimation: I use nano when emacs is too heavy-handed
mircea_popescu: so mebbe there's some meat to the assertion, vi inhabits a middle that doesnt really exist
mod6: <3 vi/m
cazalla: oh boy
cazalla: sounds like decentralised swatting
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah your post reminds me of Mr. Yarvin's point about insulting the "protected class".
mircea_popescu: cazalla quite. costs like a bitcoin to do, too.
decimation: one wonders about the total sum of $ that usg has spent just this year searching enemies of the people
mircea_popescu: i have a glass table and an optic mouse.
mircea_popescu: fucking hell.
assbot: Los del Rio - Macarena (Original Video) [HD] - YouTube
cazalla: i wonder what the chicks in that music video look like now
mircea_popescu: fifty year olds.
cazalla: !s newegg
assbot: Logged on 15-07-2014 16:54:16; ThickAsThieves: even newegg is bullish http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-3631/images/imgs/hero1.jpg
cazalla: would it be a safe bet the reason newegg and other sites offer a discount when using bitcoin is that it's easy means of coin for usg? they can print as much $ to give discounts and the coin flows from customers -> newegg -> bitpay -> usg?
assbot: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly on Galt's Gulch Chile
The20YearIRCloud: so mr berwick knew problems last year and didnt do anything?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00085109 = 5.447 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: i am about to go into a panel on bitcoin lol
thestringpuller: cazalla: this is great point
assbot: #bitcoin-assets bash
decimation: lol The20YearIRCloud that's an amusing post
mircea_popescu: uomoletale ahajhajaja
mircea_popescu: !up blast
blast: huzza
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud i don't get what this "let's all go huddle together" thing is supposed to do.
mircea_popescu: seems of the ilk of "island of women" and "tower of song", ie, cheap notional filler for "virtual spaces" a la video games
blast: but the island of woman is real, except its a mountain, in brazil ;D
mircea_popescu: ;;google tvtropes planet of hats
gribble: Main/Planet of Hats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats>; Webcomic/Planet of Hats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Webcomic/PlanetOfhats>; Main/Planet of Copyhats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfCopyhats>
mircea_popescu: blast romania has this too. it's called gaina, which is how you say hen, and it's the place surpluss women were taken by their tribe for to sell over to another tribe for > 5k years.
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud: There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em << isn't there a reality show predicated on this process ?
mircea_popescu: decimation lmao at those terms. so... why get it then ?
asciilifeform: i thought those go to the basement of 'the fed' in wash., d.c.
asciilifeform: it is said to contain a great many.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: 'swat' post: am i the only one who instantly thought of this: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/files/2009/09/14-sovietleaderleonidbrezhnevandeas.jpg
mircea_popescu: as a gif. enough nightmare fuel there for a week
thestringpuller: theu are talking aboit the collapse of mtgox
thestringpuller: i will be referwncing trilema
thestringpuller: wow lag beyond trade engine lag
mircea_popescu: decimation: asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere << bs lol.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'usg' in that context also includes all 'decay daughters' thereof
asciilifeform: i.e., armed thugs turned free-agent when the whole thing finally blows
mircea_popescu: even so.
asciilifeform: in my experience, folks preoccupied with hidey-holes tend to neglect the question of where they intend to hide... their arse
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00085067 = 18.1193 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at reality ranch, obtaining superior fire power in a limited geographical area is a trivial task.
mircea_popescu: the usg collapsing doesn't make it harder.
asciilifeform: while supplies last.
mircea_popescu: for everyone. this is not a valid objection any more than saying "for as long as gravity is still in force"
asciilifeform: and if it becomes generally known that, e.g., a Castle Moldenstein, contains a bunker full of goodies - there is the incentive for all-comers to soften the target.
asciilifeform: the best castle wall is - distance. works even on nukes.
mircea_popescu: it's not as simple as that.
mircea_popescu: take any stirkingly beautiful woman walking into a bar. is she more likely or less likely to be hit on ?
asciilifeform: point, yes
mircea_popescu: any supermodel material chick will tell you nobody dares, on the assumption.
mircea_popescu: so, some may try to soften the target, which allows the target to populate the road towards it with heads on pikes.
mircea_popescu: which is the point of a "justice system" in the first place.
mircea_popescu: overall, these would be "softeners" work as hardeners and are quite useful.
asciilifeform: there are folks (in usa) working on this variant as we speak. the ones that succeed and aren't provocateur shills - we'll know because none of them are on the net.
mircea_popescu: and which is why it's so important to get the message loud and clear to any bureaucrat anywhere, that if it comes to war, and we win, he will hang.
mircea_popescu: no questions asked, and his children will be raped for the public record.
asciilifeform: if this happens - it'll be a historic first, afaik.
asciilifeform: ussr, for instance, did no such thing when germany lost.
mircea_popescu: ussr isn't remembered for having been led by the smartest people ever.
asciilifeform: how does one say 'приспособленец' in english ?
asciilifeform: that's who most of the muppets in question are
mircea_popescu: but yes, the "no historical precedent" is what the bureaucrat instinctively answers
mircea_popescu: it was on display earlier in this very chan.
asciilifeform: naturally.
mircea_popescu: here's a thought : everything that has historical precendent now didn't originally.
asciilifeform: led by the smartest people ever << aye. witness that there are 'ukrainians' alive.
mircea_popescu: on the strenght of the zero one infinity rule alone, and of the banal observation that bitcoin also has no historical precendent, it seems... unwise to bet that 1 is the lucky number.
mircea_popescu: infinity seems infinitely more likely.
asciilifeform: inventions - happen.
asciilifeform: seems like we've this one nailed down. now, implementation... 'exercise for alert reader.'
[]bot: Bet created: "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it will probably come down to "you're not in the wot, and so therefore may not claim to own property or pretend to sue anyone"
mircea_popescu: problem solved.
mircea_popescu: "your negative rating in the wot means you can be killed by anyone and nobody'll care or do anything about it"
mircea_popescu: now try and argue why it's not really fair that you're negrated because some major players didn't like your early anti-bitcoin involvement.
mircea_popescu: xmj experienced live a tiny case study of this general principle, originally.
[]bot: Bet placed: 3.35069497 BTC for No on "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.45069497 BTC. Current weight: 99,995.
[]bot: Bet created: "Bitcoin to drop under $350 before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1034/
asciilifeform: killed by anyone << aha - 'homo sacer'
[]bot: Bet created: "Any DERP to bite it" http://bitbet.us/bet/1035/
mircea_popescu: decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property << that';s maybe going a little far. but the right to quash any action of anyone involving that land is germane.
mircea_popescu: (you wouldn't be able to arrest anyone, but you would be able to void any application for a warrant)
[]bot: Bet created: "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away << this argument is flawed in the following way : for he who is repulsed by war, this holds true. for he who however enjoys war, no payment is necessary.
assbot: A very unfair perspective. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: if like war - straight to war.
mircea_popescu: There isn’t, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active. If you’re not prepared and absolutely willing to spend any amount of time up to the entire rest of your life seeking out and butchering leeches with only the satifaction of well applied, excruciating cruelty as your reward, you’re not made for this world and you won’t long have a place
mircea_popescu: in it. This can’t be delegated, it’s a personal thing. Like citizenship. Like nationality. The only nation immune to the fate of Rhodesia is a nation of that kind of people, living in that kind of world.
mircea_popescu: and it links quite well into "what would the devil have to pay you for you to love him".
mircea_popescu: if you don't like living, you can't be paid to live.
mircea_popescu: if you like living, pay is not really a relevant consideration.
asciilifeform: but notice that active players in a war rarely occupy themselves with hiding valuables
mircea_popescu: because the fetish of value is not value
mircea_popescu: and people who like to live have enough sense to understand this difference.
asciilifeform: hold territory - sure. impale enemies - yes. bury treasure - why ?
asciilifeform: hence the sea capsule example. for some classes of object (nuke?) this might be cost-effective storage.
asciilifeform: (free up the men normally guarding for other pursuits; replace with king neptune, who can't be bribed and doesn't sleep)
mircea_popescu: kinda what the nuclear subs are anyway.
asciilifeform: yes. but those have engines, men, cost more.
asciilifeform: sea capsule is just a gedankenexperiment (though, i'm told, u.s. navy has insisted on actually trying.) i'm not altogether convinced that, properly carried out, it is cheaper than 'graveyard orbit'
mircea_popescu: not easy evaluating what such things cost.
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decimation: re: allodial title: I suppose with reference to how it was practiced in medieval England, the king's agents could be on your property on business which has the mutual consent of the king and his lords
asciilifeform: i did tally up the cost, but the first anything naturally - expensive.
decimation: re:safe deposit box, my understanding is that these are the terms all banks in the us give for such things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6334 @ 0.0008534 = 5.4054 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: drowning a box of strange in the atlantic is a considerably quieter operation than launching a rocket, however. so perhaps it wins.
mircea_popescu: decimation it's complicated, but in general property is the bane of human existence, so any absolute property has the potential to be absolutely murderous.
mircea_popescu: (look at what happened when people thought the church is a people, started donating a little to it and inadvertently created the largest landholder because unlike them, thge church didn;t die regularly)
decimation: I'm thinking of the mongols' advantage over the static empires of the east
asciilifeform: decimation: the point of the bank box story is that it was entirely unclear to me wtf is the very point of such a thing, given the caveats
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I think the main point is that you might store papers and things that would be moderately annoying to replace in case of fire
decimation: certainly nothing of 'value'
asciilifeform: decimation: esp. since the one and only event that could reasonably be insured against - contents present at logged date N and absent on opening N+k - wasn't.
decimation: well I think those terms are 'aspirational' - it goes to the arbitration conversation from a few weeks ago. everyone wants a click-wrap eula that holds them immune from any liability
asciilifeform: implication, to me, was - if you're happy with the box, take your goodies and post them straight to the enemy - at least then you'll know where they are.
decimation: heh yeah agreed, especially if the 'value' of those items was simply the information on the documents
decimation: re: gult's gulch << I find it amusing that folks who supposedly value 'self-reliance' and 'liberty' are unable to actually fly to chile and buy some land for themselves, it can't be that hard for a person with means & brains
asciilifeform: decimation: see mircea_popescu's point earlier
asciilifeform: decimation: in usa, people have contracted the disease of thinking that money can substitute for everything, including brain and balls
mircea_popescu: <decimation> asciilifeform: yeah I think the main point is that you might store papers and things that would be moderately annoying to replace in case of fire << divorce.
asciilifeform: divorce << probably the worst possible use of a bank box in usa. other tidbit in the contract was that the bank will immediately impound any box against whose owner there are civil proceedings
decimation: in which case the courts will hand whatever valubles to the woman, 'to support the children'
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> decimation: in usa, people have contracted the disease of thinking that money can substitute for everything, including brain and balls << well their government kinda depends on this principle, so if it';s good enough for the king...
mircea_popescu: this is what fucking moral hazard means, incidentally.
asciilifeform: i can hardly picture a dumber hiding place then a container in a public place with your name on it.
mircea_popescu: ok, so no divorce, no flood http://www.cnbc.com/id/49972188
mircea_popescu: fire seems the only reason left :p
asciilifeform: fire was also excluded.
asciilifeform: 0 liability for bank.
mircea_popescu: seeing how supermarkets also offer lockable containers on the same premise as banks do
mircea_popescu: it seems to me it's time to go down on sam's club for acting like a bank w/o a license.
asciilifeform: upon reading of that contract, i came to inescapable conclusion that the box thing is an active chump-magnet rather than simply a poor deal.
mircea_popescu: basically, it's the living wage embodied.
mircea_popescu: everyone wants to be paid a rent for existing
mircea_popescu: banks not exluded.
The20YearIRCloud: safe deposit boxes?
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: them.
The20YearIRCloud: Around here, most use coffee cans buried. Now you can go to a store and get a "underground safe"
decimation: let me look at my terms... yep, it excludes fire, explosion, intense heat, smoke, water (including fire suppression system) building collapse, terrorism, war, intentional destructive acts, or failures of electrical, mechanical, plumbing or structural systems, or for actions caused by any person
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: field day for the folks with ground-penetrating radar.
asciilifeform: (not to be confused with 'mine detector' that every kid owns)
asciilifeform: decimation: my particular one even mentioned failure of the vault locks.
mircea_popescu: hahaahah
mircea_popescu: dudes you gotta get out of the sticks, srsly.
The20YearIRCloud: I keep looking for GPR so i can take it to properties/estates I buy out
The20YearIRCloud: Once in a while I get the chance to buy a un-touched estate - Kids have no interest or are out of state, a trustee locks the property up and you bid on the real estate + all contents
asciilifeform: get out of the sticks << all of us in the sticks - are there for reasons.
asciilifeform: just like the other wretches stuck therein
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: yeah that's probably not a bad idea, radar would also find unpleasant surprises that are buried
asciilifeform: decimation: the instrument in question is no military secret of any kind. contact a firm that lays pipes.
asciilifeform: or - build own.
mircea_popescu: <The20YearIRCloud> Such as? << dead hookers, for one.
The20YearIRCloud: I don't know that they can be built, the costs were exorbant for non-military types
asciilifeform: incidentally, if burial is recent, a searcher can use 'nazi method'
The20YearIRCloud: and the thing is, for the most part the world is a big big place and GPR is very limited in what it can do
asciilifeform: that is, pour water, see how quickly it absorbs
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: barrels of toxic waste?
The20YearIRCloud: Or mason jars full of old coins :D
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud here's an exercise for you. today you find in a yard 1k coins of 10 grams each, minted 1750.
asciilifeform: when digging my garden (moved out of microscopic flat in late may, into a rented house) i found intact glass bottles, with caps on. appear to contain decades-old 'coca cola.'
mircea_popescu: how much is this find worth in dollars ?
mircea_popescu: (gold coins, i mean)
The20YearIRCloud: One guy found around $200k in his back yard in my area
assbot: Rare gold coins buried in California hit market; one fetches $15,000 - LA Times
asciilifeform: how much he kept from the 200 ?
The20YearIRCloud: Depends on who minted them and the composition :D
asciilifeform: how much the crown took; how much - auctioneers
The20YearIRCloud: Even in the mid 1700s the quality of gold coins ranged from 50% to 92.5%
The20YearIRCloud: $15k isn't much for a 'rare gold coin'
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud how much did he get to buy beer for ?
asciilifeform: plus such finds are generally sold for numismatic value, and not as bullion
asciilifeform: so anyone's guess
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: that was one coin out of 1400
mircea_popescu: (in general your take is about the same as if publishing a book : about 5 to 10% after govt, agent, editor etc is done raping you)
The20YearIRCloud: But usually the sensationalist media takes the biggest/best one to start it off with
decimation: :The so-called Saddle Ridge Hoard, made up of denominations of $5, $10 and $20, could bring in $10 million when the sale is all said and done, with several pieces expected to command prices as high as $1 million, experts say."
The20YearIRCloud: heck we had a local auctioneer do one guy's coin collection, the whole collection fit on a few small tables and sold for $350k
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and this isn't even considering the variant with spurious lawsuits
decimation: one wonders about the potential 'laundry' being done off of such a rich stash
asciilifeform: for instance, IANAL, but i can easily picture, e.g, a landlord, arguing 'mineral rights' on the coins.
asciilifeform: or - to make life more interesting - let's say that you find a sealed crate of kalashes, in cosmoline, rather than coins.
decimation: or barrels of toxic waste
asciilifeform: or 'mustard gas' - as happened in early 2000s near an embassy in d.c.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah that's where saddam was keeping his chem weapons ?
asciilifeform: worth what? plenty. liquidate it? more likely, your organs will be sold to pay for it carted away
mircea_popescu: o wait, it wasn't him. it was bush that hung for this
The20YearIRCloud: If I find a box of AKs here in the US there's nothing to do but leap for joy
decimation: "Army officials say the canisters, if they exist, do not pose a threat to the affluent Spring Valley neighborhood as long as they remain undisturbed." << "it's okay for you"
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: afaik+ianal - it depends where in usa.
The20YearIRCloud: Theoretically it'd be possible to sell them in any state if you take the right steps
The20YearIRCloud: if they're real-deal AKs you just demill the reciever, then the rest can be sold
asciilifeform: if they're the real thing (full auto) - you're probably bankrupt just staying out of court
asciilifeform: sold as scrap, yes.
The20YearIRCloud: if they're semi autos, they can be sold to out of state
The20YearIRCloud: Scrap = Worth $300-$3000 depending on make
asciilifeform: to go back to the example with coins - you're probably safe if you melt them down and sell by gram
decimation: start stashing 7.62 ammo and raise army
The20YearIRCloud: The serial numbered portion is the only part essentially that's illegal
asciilifeform: but this destroys most of the value of the find
asciilifeform: so we're no longer answering the question of what the find per se is worth, in that case.
The20YearIRCloud: With regards to coins, you only need to avoid the very, very limited types that are assumed to be stolen from the mint
asciilifeform: eventually, the soviet denouement is that all precious metal is presumed 'stolen from mint.'
The20YearIRCloud: Other than that, it's pretty easy to stay quiet, and slowly sell off the horde without signfiicant attention
asciilifeform: other interesting thing about treasure is that, afaik, your tax liability officially begins when the shovel opens the box
asciilifeform: see the many stories of lotto winners who take home mazeratis and then go bankrupt
decimation: asciilifeform: brings to mind the play quoted by Mr. Yarvin where the kulak is found guilty of hording foreign currency in basement
asciilifeform: khruschev turned this into a hanging offense. retroactively.
asciilifeform: (gold, rather than foreign currency, in that case, but applied across the board)
The20YearIRCloud: In the us , gold hording could be jailable, but silver hording was encouraged
The20YearIRCloud: speaking of the 30s-50s
asciilifeform: silver, at the time, (and largely still today) being primarily an industrial metal - the supply was already safely corralled.
decimation: yeah back in the early 1900's the whole idea of the 'silver dollar' was the precursor to the modern bezzle
The20YearIRCloud: Us silver coin production was astronomical
decimation: after 'backing' your currency with relatively worthless metal, the next logical step being to 'back' it with nothing it all
asciilifeform: they occasionally turn up in loose change even now.
decimation: silver makes excellent electrical conductors though.
asciilifeform: decimation: understand why it is rarely used as such.
The20YearIRCloud: Right now it's about 1:10,000 in dimes, and about 1:25,000 in quarters
asciilifeform: (while gold is king in all fine electronics)
The20YearIRCloud: and around 1:1,000 from halves
asciilifeform: oxidation.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah oxidation, terrible contacts
decimation: gold however...
decimation: gold actually has worse conductance than copper, but it doesn't oxidize
asciilifeform: usually the absolute conductivity isn't critical. resistance to corrosion and heat conductivity - is.
asciilifeform: copper plated with gold is more or less 'best of worlds'
The20YearIRCloud: Well, considering how little of the connection is used for the gold, it makes plenty of sense
decimation: ie your ENIG boards
The20YearIRCloud: gold connectors are usually large, so there's more conductivity (due to lower resistence)
asciilifeform: and everybody's.
The20YearIRCloud: Although theoretically silver wire with gold connectors would be the bee's knees
decimation: gold is also used exclusively to connect pins to chip dies if I recall correctly
The20YearIRCloud: That's also true
asciilifeform: gold also solders beautifully, because the coating remains smooth
The20YearIRCloud: This is of course until we discover room-temperature superconductors, then it's all off
The20YearIRCloud: The little bit of silver soldering I've done has been quite smooth too
asciilifeform: room-temperature superconductors << unless we all perish in laser pistol duels.
The20YearIRCloud: I just want my emdrive hovercar and hoverbike
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: doubtful. in most circuitry heat loss in conductors isn't terribly critical, and it's hard to imagine said superconductors would be better/cheaper to fabricate than the metals we are discussing
The20YearIRCloud: Most of the data I'm seeing seems to support that once we reach that point, everyone gets their own airship
The20YearIRCloud: I'm sure that's right, but i can dream
asciilifeform: heat loss in conductors isn't terribly critical << consider why virtually all present-day applications of low temperature superconductors is in high-strength magnets.
asciilifeform: because there - yes, critical.
asciilifeform: room temperature supercon is a box of surprises.
asciilifeform: e.g., home 'mri' scanner plus some fairly simple image processing.
asciilifeform: result - no rich man need die from most cancers.
decimation: I think there are some cold superconductors used in new york to move lots of electricity through tight spaces too: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/superconductors-enter-commercial-utility-service
assbot: Superconductors Enter Commercial Utility Service - IEEE Spectrum
asciilifeform: don't shoot a man with lead and gunpowder, shoot him with pocket railgun on watch battery - classier.
asciilifeform: (bonus: shoot with the battery)
The20YearIRCloud: We have been very much on the upswing concerning superconductors. 50 years ago you had to be near absolute zero, now you can do it at like -200c
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00085789 = 6.4342 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: al schwarts published a possible recipe for room temperature supercon - afaik, it was ignored.
asciilifeform: (or in use by chicoms - like his certain other creations)
asciilifeform: (which others?
asciilifeform: !s eotvos
The20YearIRCloud: is he the emdrive guy?
asciilifeform: his products - work.
The20YearIRCloud: Emdrive seems to work too
asciilifeform: in the sense that podkletnov's drive 'worked.'
asciilifeform: (emdrive, not schwartz)
The20YearIRCloud: It's going to JPL for testing, which is a pretty darn good sign as to it working
asciilifeform: as did podkletnov's, afaik.
The20YearIRCloud: And from the papers I've seen, it doesn't seem to be signfiicantly more different than the theory behind VASMIR, and NASA was all over that 15 years ago
asciilifeform: nasa is happy to fund every perpetual-motion crank on the planet - but if you're an industrial organic chemist with a history of rocking the boat - forget it.
asciilifeform: vasmir doesn't violate newton's 3rd.
The20YearIRCloud: neither does the emdrive
asciilifeform: if you ask any physics crank, his machines never violate physical law
The20YearIRCloud: and in the case of emdrive as well, it's signfiicantly more efficient than ion drives, but not absurdly so
asciilifeform: there's always an 'imaginary particle' involved
The20YearIRCloud: And it, just like ion drives, both would benefit amazingly well by room conducting superconductors
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
The20YearIRCloud: Like quantum entanglement?
asciilifeform: what classical law does it violate?
asciilifeform: understand, we'd all love a working perpetuum mobile or reactionless thruster.
The20YearIRCloud: I'd have to find the papers, but 30-40 years ago it was supposed to violate several principals
asciilifeform: but the folks involved with 'emdrive' have a rich history of fraud (usg and principals both)
The20YearIRCloud: And now, peer reviewed studies seem to come out every few months continaully supporting entanglement
decimation: asciilifeform: it seems to me that an Eötvös balance would be pretty straightforward to build
asciilifeform: decimation: dig the log
asciilifeform: decimation: we came up with a setup that didn't require eotvos balance
The20YearIRCloud: And harold white is a con too?
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2014 19:05:02; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in 2010 i concocted a variant of the test that could be carried out for approx. 50k USD, from scratch. schwartz answered that, in his estimation, the test would work to spec, but results would not be accepted by the field unless carried out on one of the two existing eotvos balances. one - adelberger's, one - chicom.
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: no need to be a con man in the usual sense to acquiesce to usg SOP.
asciilifeform: if you want to know what test - bring schwartz out of his hidey hole, wherever it is, and ask him. he enjoys explaining it, me - it just depresses
decimation: But according to wikipedia, it appears that the Eötvös balance is some balls, a rod, some string, and some mirrors
asciilifeform: if you want the needed accuracy - it's rather more complicated.
decimation: okay that makes sense
asciilifeform: (atmosphere of controlled temperature, pressure - and, more importantly, provenance)
asciilifeform: concept of 'provenance' is key here
asciilifeform: i recall mircea_popescu even used this tale as an example in an essay
decimation: as in, ensuring that all of the masses can be traced to some standard, etc?
asciilifeform: not only standard, but as agreed upon by all pertinent professionals
asciilifeform: including the set that want schwartz to die in a fire
asciilifeform: (he nearly managed it once)
asciilifeform: (30+% 3rd deg. burns)
decimation: wow, that sucks. metrology is it's own weird little world
asciilifeform: if i were to sell a few extra organs, i could run the 50k variant of the experiment. and i'd go to my grave knowing that equivalence principle can be violated. but that'd be all.
asciilifeform: it won't: 'count.'
decimation: I called up NIST a few weeks ago, asked them how much it would cost to measure the phase noise of an oscillator. They said it would only cost their time, which would come to about $10k! for a morning session
asciilifeform: schwartz is one of the very few people i know of whose problem cannot be solved with money per se.
asciilifeform: he could, potentially, upgrade to rich pariah instead of modestly wealthy pariah
asciilifeform: but that'd be it.
decimation: well, mircea's theory is that musical tastes randomly change with time & entropy, the same is true for academic fashions
asciilifeform: decimation: there's also other factors.
decimation: one wonders which forgotten scientist will be recorded by history while official science is resigned to the dustbin
asciilifeform: decimation: adelberger, for example, would have to perform seppuku - and all of his students, and their students
asciilifeform: (if schwartz were to be permitted to carry out his experiment, and obtained a positive result)
asciilifeform: understand that the effect in question, even if it turns out to work as herr schwartz predicted, doesn't yield an 'antigravity jetpack'
asciilifeform: it exists - if exists - somewhere after the 8th decimal.
asciilifeform: but to even begin the kind of work it would take to 'technologize', is an investment that no one would remotely contemplate without the kind of proof that can only be obtained after his enemies were to give in.
decimation: yeah but it would have implications for relativity theory apparently
asciilifeform: or a few centuries after we've all died.
decimation: 'how much would you have to pay your enemies not to crush you in your moment of need'
asciilifeform: this, as i understand, is why schwartz never made any attempt to raise funding
asciilifeform: he's a clever enough fellow to understand that this would cement his already unenviable position
asciilifeform: regardless of the outcome of the experiment, he'd end up seen just like the fellow who opened the 'esp instutute'
asciilifeform: *institute
asciilifeform: you can't pay your enemies to die.
asciilifeform: if ussr were alive, perhaps he'd have defected.
asciilifeform: but i suspect he'd sooner fellate his 'magnum.'
asciilifeform: but this is the very problem that multiple kingdoms one can defect to is the only known solution.
asciilifeform: see galileo & florence.
asciilifeform: but they have to be actual sovereign kingdoms - not muppet shows.
asciilifeform: and - they have to give a damn.
decimation: yeah this connects with our discussion the other day about the collapse of the ussr being terrible for usg
asciilifeform: if i were, e.g, mircea_popescu, and gave a damn, i'd offer schwartz xxxx btc. half to show up here, half after he explains himself.
asciilifeform: but poor s. apparently went 'full perelman mode' and doesn't write back any more.
asciilifeform: (how to know that schwartz (or taleb, or...) collects 'prize' rather than usg stooge with a shannonizer and irc connection - exercise for alert reader.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29650 @ 0.00085641 = 25.3926 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: the most i can offer to interested readers is repeat of mircea_popescu's algorithm 'have sex - with people, do business - with keys.'
decimation: “I don't even have an E-mail address. I have reached an age where my main purpose is not to receive messages,” Eco said at a party in his honor at the University Club of Chicago.
assbot: Of Eco And E-mail - The New Yorker
asciilifeform: this is called perelman mode.
asciilifeform: partial, if you like. full perelman is when you haven't a post address either.
asciilifeform: !s perelman
decimation: perelman turned down the fields medal right?
asciilifeform: not only.
asciilifeform: he also turned down, if i recall, government pensions, interviews with journawhores, all of it.
asciilifeform: lives somewhere in russian north, among the trees.
asciilifeform: go find him.
assbot: Happy People: A Year in the Taiga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: if he's feeling charitable, he might leave archaeologists a box of notebooks the ants won't eat.
asciilifeform: (as, e.g, k. f. gauss did)
asciilifeform: for all we know - perelman was eaten by local fauna, or fellated his nagant
asciilifeform: but once in a while you hear that some busybody found him and told 'fuck off, can't answer for your safety if i see you again.'
decimation: it seems very few extreme math geniuses find this world a 'habitable' place
asciilifeform: perelman had the unfortunate combination of math and iron balls. he would not 'play ball'.
The20YearIRCloud: who is eco again?
decimation: another way of looking at it: he's decided to hold 'allodial title' over his mind, the only place that is really possible in this world for mere humans
asciilifeform: umberto eco.
asciilifeform: decimation: this.
decimation: he wrote 'the name of the rose' among other things, ascii quotes it from time to time
The20YearIRCloud: i've been off reading physics articles trying to grasp things and lost the conversation
asciilifeform: decimation: the only work of that man i found readable
asciilifeform: as i understand - he caught a memetic virus - 'postmodernism' - and might as well have contracted 'mad cow'.
asciilifeform: (eco, not perelman)
asciilifeform: same thing happened to russian mega-author v. pelevin
asciilifeform: the action of the 'virus' was evident in his early work, but it got worse.
decimation: it is probably terrible to become an object of some fad among elites today
asciilifeform: decimation: eco, pelevin, others - were clever chaps; understood that if you suck cock, you become a cock-sucker, even if 'your heart isn't in it' at first
asciilifeform: schneier, i'm certain, understood
asciilifeform: can carry on the list, but why.
asciilifeform: we can all write the list.
decimation: probably the only real defense is to go 'full perelman'
asciilifeform: less of a defense and more like slow-motion seppuku
asciilifeform: this, incidentally, is how science dies.
The20YearIRCloud: because of the gubberment?
assbot: Becoming effete (Steven B. Harris)
asciilifeform: usg 'science' is - scar tissue.
decimation: 'this' being that 'science' becomes inhabitable for non-fraudulent scientists?
decimation: I mean un-inhabitable
The20YearIRCloud: so where do they go?
asciilifeform: civilizations senesce and die - like people.
asciilifeform: this is possibly the best-known fact about them.
decimation: that's a good-quality usenet rant
asciilifeform: lots more where it came from.
The20YearIRCloud: i'm trying to catch up and understand :D
The20YearIRCloud: Darn my lack of understanding
decimation: !s professor salary
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2014 01:57:20; decimation: ?In 1890, professors salaries [at Amherst College] were $ 2,500, more than twenty times tuition. The step up from laborer to professor was immense, for the average wage earner in 1890 earned $425 a year. ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13559 @ 0.00085789 = 11.6321 BTC [+]
decimation: that explains some of the problem: the egalitarian mind-virus
asciilifeform: decimation: can't fix with money. soviet professors rolled in cash (compared to most other occupations.) this just attracts poseurs.
asciilifeform: (just as you can't fix, e.g., old age, with money - here's another 'yarchive' nugget - http://yarchive.net/med/conspiracies.html)
assbot: 404 Not Found
asciilifeform: go to hell, arsebot, it's 'found'
asciilifeform: point being - we don't know how to repair broken cultures. the best we know - is how to help them die.
asciilifeform: re: professors:
asciilifeform: consider if you were to offer $maxint for antigrav device.
asciilifeform: all the money in the world won't conjure into existence 'the rabbit out of a hat, unless said rabbit is already in the hat'
asciilifeform: at least, not on a time scale you could put up with.
decimation: yeah that's a good point. I think the money is less important than the relative status, which is less important than just getting people to defer to their betters quickly
asciilifeform: decimation: reward with status - get usg academics.
asciilifeform: you get what you optimize for - plus exhaust.
asciilifeform: there is probably a 'perelman' within driving distance of where you (any you) live. but he's almost certainly surrendered and sucking state cock (and perelman no longer) - or is occupied with the minutiae of physical survival
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, perhaps, is working on the problem of building a hard disk that survives several centuries of exposure in the wilderness
asciilifeform: and if he isn't, he should be
decimation: etch binary on rocks?
asciilifeform: latency's killer.
asciilifeform: state of the art is probably (cloth-based) paper under inert gas.
decimation: asciilifeform: does your nexus 10 provide reasonably close 'paper-like' screen presentation?
asciilifeform: decimation: i trim all the border whitespace and get approx. the same 'paper' size as the original document
asciilifeform: so in that sense yes
asciilifeform: (as if this needed repeating - but for completeness - don't keep sensitive non-public material on 'nexus' or similar machine.)
decimation: assuming 1 inch margins that sounds about right
decimation: encrypted blobs are probably okay
decimation: no keys though
asciilifeform: solely ones you'd consent to have transmitted by radio across the planet
decimation: right.
asciilifeform: it is - a toy.
asciilifeform owns a number of toys, like other people
The20YearIRCloud: Did I tell you guys that the bank approved the series of loans for RentalStarter?
decimation: do you have any non-toy computers aside from your symbolics machines?
asciilifeform: depends how you cut it
decimation: good job The20YearIRCloud!
The20YearIRCloud: Big thing is the terms were superior to what I expected, 5% vs 7%, and the ability to do 20yr fixed payback vs 15yr payback or adjustable rates
asciilifeform organizes machines similarly to mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: almost certain that, given this, it doing anything but sitting on btc is a loss
The20YearIRCloud: as in not utilizing available capital>
asciilifeform: as in utilizing, to buy coin.
decimation: that's true, if btc is going to succeed, it is inevitable that it goes up several orders of magnitude in dollar price
asciilifeform: someone (mircea_popescu?) suggested that, for so long as fiat long-term credit is available to anyone, this'll be the bullet that keeps killing it until dead.
The20YearIRCloud: Which is worrysome to me, but then I do have an auto-buy going through on a regular basis, so i'm trying to diversify in multiple methods - Bitcoin, USD, Silver/Gold/Coins , guns, real estate
The20YearIRCloud: hopefully between all that I'll personally be OK, but as far as the business is concerned, till bitcoin is a national currency and most workers get paid in it, it's gonna be hard for us to get truly involved in the BTC economy
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: sounds reasonable. real financial lending will not take place in bitcoin until it becomes the 'new currency'
The20YearIRCloud: And it's hard to judge when that will be, otherwise I do believe our model hedges well against USD collapse, and any major problems, while building enough capital and assets, should we have another downturn that we will be able to severely profit from it
peterl: The20YearIRCloud: so now you get to hold onto bitcoins and use loans to buy houses?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00086132 = 16.0636 BTC [+]
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