Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2013-12-13 | 2013-12-15 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56300 @ 0.00090292 = 50.8344 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic one bitcoin buys me at least 100 clueless noobs who have it all figured out.
Apocalyptic: I just don't understand where that arrogance come from given they're utterly clueless
mircea_popescu: the other way however... not so much. clueless noobs with delusions of self importance are pretty much a buyer's market.
Apocalyptic: and they don't even realize it
mircea_popescu: that's where.
mircea_popescu: there's two types of arrogant people in the world, those who know they're much better than you and those that don't know you're any better than them.
mircea_popescu: the latter are the very vast majority.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you're bored you can send them to http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/
mircea_popescu: not like it's a new argument or anything.
Apocalyptic: meh, they don't deserve that priv reading trilema is
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 7 @ 0.024 = 0.168 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Oct 28 17:17:15 <thestrin1puller>but in all srsness i think i may fork over money for an mpex account
mircea_popescu: this, of course, was oct 28 2012 :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1499 @ 0.000519 = 0.778 BTC [-]
Namworld: I don't use my MPEx account much, if at all, recently. No options at a premium I like.
Apocalyptic: Namworld, you're still running btc-bond right ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42790 @ 0.00089936 = 38.4836 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 49 @ 0.00275 = 0.1348 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Namworld you could write your own and list them of course
mircea_popescu: (ironically, people paying for options last month made ~3k btc in aggregate)
mike_c: late night thought: the market maker writes almost all the options. it would be good for mpex if more people wrote options. so, the fee (not collateral) for writing options should be low low low (maybe even free??)
Namworld: I suppose I could eventually.
mircea_popescu: mike_c what fee is that ?
mike_c: All MKOPT and MKFUT orders are assesed a 2% fee (SPLIT orders are free).
mircea_popescu: mike_c you can make split for free.
mike_c: yeah, for double the collateral. idk.. probably a dumb late night thought. ignore me.
mircea_popescu: well the idea is that if you're marketmaking then you're marketmaking. selling puts and calls.
mircea_popescu: if you are going directional then you are speculating not marketmaking.
mircea_popescu: this obviously is a distinction btc people would gladly blur, but i think it'd be pretty dangerous/irresponsible to allow it just yet.
mike_c: yeah, i agree that is the correct long-term thinking. which is the way you operate. I just wish for moar liquidity at times.
mircea_popescu: there's a ton of liquidity, you kidding?
mircea_popescu: i guess we all wish for more liquidity at better prices, but this is probably true universally.
mircea_popescu: i wish there were more airplanes for 10k a pop on the market, for instance
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00296938 = 0.2969 BTC [+] {4}
mike_c: not universally. there are tight spreads on some things, like s.mpoe. tight spreads on options would require hedgin though
mircea_popescu: you realise the notion of tight is relative.
mircea_popescu: mpoe moves relatively very little, i was just looking through early feb/march logs and it was trading 65-70
mircea_popescu: btc in march was also trading 6.5
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00089753 = 14.181 BTC [-]
mike_c: spread on mpoe is 0.00000036 right now. spread over last 30 days was 1000x that.
mike_c: spread of the s.mpoe share price
mike_c: that seems relatively bigger than the option spreads
mike_c: er, smaller.
mike_c: that is obviously for less volume, but you can still move a decent amount of mpoe shares for smaller price differences.
mircea_popescu: but let alone spread girth for a moment and think in avg prices.
mike_c: ok. you are saying mpoe spread over last 30 is 20% and btc is 50% (or more)
mircea_popescu: s.mpoe moved 20%ish over 9 months. btc moved 10000% over the same interval.
mircea_popescu: obviously the spot spreads on the first will be way narrower than even the spot spreads on the 2nd
mircea_popescu: let alone the OPTION spreads on the 2nd, which by their nature have to be wider than spot
mike_c: yes. and obviously the option spreads are not insane since the bot gets beat up sometimes.
mircea_popescu: such as last month ;/
mircea_popescu: on the other hand i can understand the disbelief, people with any experience looking at options are aghast to see mpex spreads.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, bitcoin is bitcoin. what can one do.
mike_c: plus, everytime i undercut the bot's margin I get beat up :)
mircea_popescu: i think you may be not the first to make that experience
mircea_popescu: which is why there's not so much stuff in the midmarket, in spite of mpex being unbitcoinly friendlty to free entreprise.
kanzure: so it turns out that the cryptocyprus neobee-dumper should be flipped around the other way
kanzure: dump when he posts on bitcointalk, buy when he posts on reddit
mircea_popescu: any good drama ?
kanzure: just boring drama
kanzure: not worth reporting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 1000 @ 0.0005555 = 0.5555 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.0008971 = 6.818 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00089583 = 25.128 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.0008973 = 12.0687 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.1 = 0.4 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.26667 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17371 @ 0.00089902 = 15.6169 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 300 @ 0.05 = 15 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.25900302 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.25900301 BTC [-]
KRS|Gotyawallet: dat blockchain
KRS|Gotyawallet: to handle the number of transactions that visa handles in 3 months the bitcoin system will require 14 Terabytes of storage space. That's 14 terabytes of hard drive space you would have to add every 85 days! https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Scalability#Disk_space
mircea_popescu: notrly a new point by any means. that's why the more sensible people have been saying all along that bitcoin isn't nor does it aim to be a visa competitor.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.26667 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: guys, does someone have a GPG contract template for a bond ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40050 @ 0.00090071 = 36.0734 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31885 @ 0.00089782 = 28.627 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 280 @ 0.001 = 0.28 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00089674 = 15.4239 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.25900301 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1720 @ 0.001 = 1.72 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00089582 = 26.0684 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23684 @ 0.00090018 = 21.3199 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17180 @ 0.00090284 = 15.5108 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.2590011 = 1.295 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.259 = 1.295 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.05 = 0.3 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.25900301 = 10.3601 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 62 @ 0.00289999 = 0.1798 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00090169 = 26.9605 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13746 @ 0.00090077 = 12.382 BTC [-]
KRS|Gotyawallet: Of the most regal titles, is Mircea Popescu a Duke?
fiat500: baron comes to mind
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 288 @ 0.001 = 0.288 BTC
KRS|Gotyawallet: yes, baron would suit him fine
KRS|Gotyawallet: Bitcoin Baron
KRS|Gotyawallet: but thats just a mininode where there reports of his manhood from wild soirees in Monaco?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 7.70020900 BTC to 86`900 shares, 8861 satoshi per share
BingoBoingo: Baron seems too low. In Bitcoin Baron may be the highest nobel title though because generally the title of a Baron is derived through accomplishment. Higher feudal titles though were generally derived by the whims of kings long dead.
BingoBoingo: It may be that in Bitcoin no higher title than Baron is possible.
pankkake: overlord
Apocalyptic: <KRS|Gotyawallet> to handle the number of transactions that visa handles in 3 months the bitcoin system will require 14 Terabytes of storage space. That's 14 terabytes of hard drive space you would have to add every 85 days! https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Scalability#Disk_space // that couldn't even be possible
Apocalyptic: and by design so, the blocksize is bounded, so the blockchain space increase is bounded too, and far from these figures
pankkake: I'm sure it can be changed in the future, when it makes sense (i.e. much faster connections and cheaper storage)
pankkake: but in any case, there is an use for an offchain payment service
pankkake: small transactions, instant confirmations
Apocalyptic: yeah definitely
Apocalyptic: btw pankkake what's your opinion of reflets.info ?
pankkake: the bitcoin article? it looks like it has spread amongst the French
Apocalyptic: no, the guys behind it in general
pankkake: I think I probably ignore anything starting by reflets.info, reading it now
pankkake: oh :)
Apocalyptic: bluetouff, kitetoa...
pankkake: oh kitetoa is behind it? :o
Apocalyptic: he wrote that shitty article !
Apocalyptic: i wouldn't mention a random negative btc article here
KRS|Gotyawallet: in at $880
Apocalyptic: i did because i thought these guys were sensible to start with
pankkake: I was a big fan of kitetoa.com when I was young
Apocalyptic: yeah guy seems ok
pankkake: but it's not really negative. the point is that it will be made illegal one day
kakobrekla: ;;later tell mircea_popescu done
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pankkake: and I believe it will
Apocalyptic: however he doesn't say that
pankkake: the thing is, will it matter?
Apocalyptic: he implies that when it will be made illegal, it will die
Apocalyptic: and that's the issue
pankkake: yeah, I think - with a bit of hope - that when it happens it won't matter
Apocalyptic: (c'est comme ça que j'interprète son "va disparaître")
pankkake: OTC trading certainly won't die, though it's impractical
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14128 @ 0.00090292 = 12.7565 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00090319 = 4.245 BTC [+]
KRS|Gotyawallet: Apocalyptic: so the blockchain isnt going to be an issue in the future like that article said? I dont know a lot about it but I'm interested in it and wondered about future growth.
Apocalyptic: it won't, blockchain storage requirement will increase linearly, and less so than common storage space
KRS|Gotyawallet: they estimated TB levels
KRS|Gotyawallet: as long as its not an issue np
KRS|Gotyawallet: i was just curious..and how exactly did the French decide the death of bitcoin?
Apocalyptic: eventually yeah KRS
Apocalyptic: they predict about 15-20 GBytes/year of increase
KRS|Gotyawallet: not sure how thats going to be practical
Apocalyptic: it's manageable given the current harddrives and the projected ones
KRS|Gotyawallet: harddrives arent exactly portable
KRS|Gotyawallet: portable like thumbdrive etc
Apocalyptic: it's clear smartphones/any portable device won't be able to hold a full node
Duffer1: checkpointing is an option i've heard talked about
Duffer1: that could potentially solve the blockchain bloat
pankkake: I don't think any smartphone application is a full node already?
BingoBoingo: Well, all is manageable if people stop thinking of BTC as a consumer Point of Sale solution...
Apocalyptic: well said BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: Thank you Apocalyptic, but I wasn't the first to say that.
pankkake: thankfully tradefortress solved the issue for us already! oh wait
b0n1: hey there! is there a good source for historical data of the bitcoin exchanges like gox stamp and btcchina? By good source I mean relatively dense data with small time intervals. On bitcoincharts for example I can only find historical data with time intervals that are bigger than a day for example
kakobrekla: use sierra chart api
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30450 @ 0.00090355 = 27.5131 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: Duffer1 checkpointing is already implemented, you still need all historic data
kakobrekla: how else would you know whats behind certain priv key
Duffer1: ah i see
b0n1: humm does that run smooth with wine kakobrekla ?
b0n1: or do i really have to switch to windows
BingoBoingo: b0n1: It's an API so regardless of OS a solution probably exists already in Python
b0n1: BingoBoingo, do you eventually have a source to that?
b0n1: also i couldnt get informations about a sierrachart api on their homepage
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 45 @ 0.0027 = 0.1215 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0029 = 0.145 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: b0n1: If I have one, which I am hesistant to say whether I myself do or not it isn't for sale or open source. I think if something exists and is useful that there is probably an open source implementation or an alternative...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 980 @ 0.00275395 = 2.6989 BTC [-] {6}
mikaeldice: b0n1, there's a torrent out there somewhere with all of the Gox history up to a certain date. After that it's a matter of querying the API, which will lie sometimes, to get to the current date, and then monitoring the API for future updates
mikaeldice: Also, there might be a BigTable database somewhere, if you search on that
b0n1: mikaeldice, thanks for the advice! Do you also know of such a torrent file for stamp and btcchina?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 5785 @ 0.00047609 = 2.7542 BTC [-] {15}
mikaeldice: On that I have no idea
mircea_popescu: b0n1 but since you're talking about this, let me point out to you that this is a business model.
mircea_popescu: thompson financial is doing decent money simply by having collected and assembled all this data.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 46 @ 0.0025 = 0.115 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "bhagenbeekdd@metaltrade.ru 7:00 am The first-rate method to gratify your girlfriend" << dude, metal trade ? poor girlfriends.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 450 @ 0.00045203 = 0.2034 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00090395 = 11.1186 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: For the past several decades now, Thompson/Reuters have made a lot of money on this model of information that is at least in principle readily available, but intimidating to encounter in its free form.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.2511 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: In my perhaps ill advised venture into library science as a vocation, most of my classmates and professors embraced taking the offered APIs and broken datastreams as a gift to embrace.
BingoBoingo: Fuck that though.
KRS|Gotyawallet: ;;seen thestringpuller
gribble: thestringpuller was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <thestringpuller> ;;ticker
BingoBoingo: Mind you these are the same people who view backwards compatibility with the MARC standards as dogma while wanting to recreate in modern data retrieval the same limitations imposed by magnetic tape.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00090401 = 20.7922 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Available for the taking by any rando university that wants to incorporate a Stanford, Harvard, or Berkley-ness to their name by embeding themselves in an area inextricably will be the task of killing Z39.50
mircea_popescu: i doubt anything useful, interesting or valuable is coming out of universities anymore.
mircea_popescu: kinda dead in the water, at least the anglo-saxon model.
BingoBoingo: At the time Z39.50 was standardized SQL implementations were a thing.
BingoBoingo: I imagine universities still come up with unique and useful things, though anyone who cares would be loath to find their release instead of simply reinventing them.
mircea_popescu: i doubt they do. they may inadvertently acquire "rights" to unrelated people's great ideas through the latter's negligence/cluelessness
mircea_popescu: but that's as far as it goes.
BingoBoingo: At least as far as organizing information goes it is Dublin Core https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_core versus google search all over again
mircea_popescu: universities' capacity to create went out with the admittance of the special interest groups.
mircea_popescu: you can either have teachers fucking students and people being called fucktards left and right a la mit 1950s
mircea_popescu: or else you can have sensitivity training and one huge diaper party for mentally stunted "adults" in name only.
BingoBoingo: Well, they don't do paradigmatic change as well as they used to. Many campuses in the Middle West are making great strides in turning corn into ethanol in ways that would make Jack Daniels himself turn white in shock. Try to suppose through these institutions though that there might be a better fuel than ethanol and you are stuck.
mircea_popescu: matybe, i'ven ot really been following the entire "green technologies" stuff.
mircea_popescu: seems bunky to me, but w/e.
BingoBoingo: Well, turning corn into ethanol isn't really green in any other sense than letting Coca Cola know there might be more money in turning corn into fuel instead of soft drinks and letting the poor get Poorabetes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19738 @ 0.00090404 = 17.8439 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Granted much of my information on this subject may be an accident of geography living in a place where news consists of advances turning corn into flamable glorious, often undrinkable booze or corrupt tax auctions http://www.bnd.com/2013/12/13/2958897/prosecutor-moves-to-cut-off-ex.html
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 196 @ 0.25898691 = 50.7614 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.05 = 0.4 BTC
BingoBoingo: It is like your chemistry versus food rant. Some places the emphasis is so engrained that minute advances in the chemistry become deafening and people forget that maize is a weed.
mircea_popescu: it's a relatively successful one, but not very. nothing like cannabis.
mircea_popescu: i have had the occasion to see this in nature, as romania had for over a decade a lot of ignored agricultural land.
mircea_popescu: both linen and corn had been long used here, and so they exist as wild species.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.27023687 = 5.4047 BTC [+] {7}
mircea_popescu: the corn did manage to ocasionally pick up a spot, but usualyl driven out within a couple of years
mircea_popescu: the weed is NEVER driven out.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.26989977 BTC [-]
KRS|Gotyawallet: did somebody say weed, man
BingoBoingo: Soil and latitude and probably other things make a difference. It would not have been a long walk this fall to fields where corn tainted soybean fields. I'll grant it though that the soil in the fields and around them may not be soild for any natural definition of the term, but may merely be a nitrogen soaked fascimile
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15822 @ 0.00090355 = 14.296 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: soybean is arguably even weaker than corn, sure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22550 @ 0.00090219 = 20.3444 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: have you seen many wild oat fields invaded by corn ?
mircea_popescu: or for that matter, Cirsium arvense ?
BingoBoingo: I've seen corn in oat and wheat fields, but not invading land covered by thistles.
BingoBoingo: Around here though thistles are more of a lawn pest than an agricultural pest.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18450 @ 0.00090219 = 16.6454 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 283 @ 0.002748 = 0.7777 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00090195 = 13.7096 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 96 @ 0.0025 = 0.24 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2109 @ 0.001 = 2.109 BTC {2}
mircea_popescu: then it definuitely is a matter of soil/clime
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00090219 = 26.6146 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.00090356 = 30.0434 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18850 @ 0.00090769 = 17.11 BTC [+] {2}
pankkake: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 1083525546.32 based on data since last change | 1112665357.34 based on data for last three days
pankkake: no one really talking about the sc2 match on bitcointalk. not sure where I could promote the bet…
pankkake: (and not act like a vile spammer)
Apocalyptic: which bet pankkake ?
ozbot: BitBet - "Scarlett" to win StarCraft 2 showmatch against Naniwa
mircea_popescu: maybe on some venue where sf2 is big
pankkake: oh, there are many, but I don't have an account on those places
pankkake: teamliquid is THE place
pankkake: or the starcraft subreddit
ozbot: TL Store: Now accepting Bitcoin
pankkake: and I realize I probably bet on the wrong horse :(
pankkake: plus scarlett has many fans so it would be probably more lucrative to bet on the other one
Namworld: whut?
Namworld: What the heck are you talking about, pankkake?
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
pankkake: just spammed teamliquid
Namworld: I see
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 181 @ 0.00278629 = 0.5043 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.0009078 = 10.1674 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: im surprised sc2 tournaments are still a big thing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 170 @ 0.00265893 = 0.452 BTC [-] {5}
pankkake: league of legends (aka LoL. lol) is a bigger thing apparently
pankkake: still I enjoy watching sc2, even if I don't really play it
pankkake: mostly this guy: https://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft/videos because of the live play and all the rage and bad manner
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.25500123 = 0.51 BTC [-]
ozbot: Oleg Andreev - Bitcoin Value Proposition
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: has never been to korea
asciilifeform: hell, wc2 (!) is still played in russia.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.05 = 0.75 BTC
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: lol wc2
thestringpuller: how old are you?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ~30
asciilifeform: but i was young once
thestringpuller: 30 is still young
thestringpuller: ~30 is still young
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16358 @ 0.00090764 = 14.8472 BTC [-]
pankkake: I hope so!
asciilifeform: my partner at one of the places i wurk was hired because he found a remote 0day for... warcraft 2.
asciilifeform: (it was his only claim to glory; he was a truck driver at the time.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25500 @ 0.00090666 = 23.1198 BTC [-]
pankkake: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 1096052560.49 based on data since last change | 1123378423.01 based on data for last three days
Namworld: wc2 is the shit, thestringpuller
Namworld: I should play it again...
ozbot: You’re gonna have to learn that variety speak pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Namworld: lol, that coinion article.
ThickAsThieves: nice article mp, would be interesting if you turn out proven correct
mircea_popescu: get your hollywood friends to read it anyway.
mircea_popescu: spiel says hollyowood's dogfood, and he has a point. they gotta do something.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 94 @ 0.024 = 2.256 BTC [-] {2}
dexX7: https://bitcointalk.org/adrotate.php?adinfo "Trade 93 Altcoins to join rich elite !!!" lol
ozbot: Ad info
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 27 @ 0.05 = 1.35 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.001 = 0.15 BTC
mircea_popescu: anyone remember Elite ? the game publiosher
pankkake: "join the rich elite" was the mcxnow motto or something
pankkake: that one is a cryptsy reflink, lel
FabianB: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 274910 | Current Difficulty: 9.08350862437022E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 276191 | Next Difficulty In: 1281 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 11 hours, 16 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1098769491.01 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.96311
dexX7: and also "Goat says ch00o0o00 ch0000o000o00o0!!!1!!" linking to an article about bitcoin and what greenspan said. funny rotation
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.261 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell oleganza what's the point of a blog w/o a comment section ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5851 @ 0.00090332 = 5.2853 BTC [-]
mikaeldice: damn, yet another dice site launched.. mine is going to be just a coin in the wishing well by the time it's done
pankkake: try to find something unique
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 122 @ 0.0024761 = 0.3021 BTC [-] {2}
mikaeldice: I'm not too worried about this one.. "How Does Dicelead Proof Us Each Roll Is Legitimate? dicelead is provably fair which mean you can verfiy each roll is absolutely fair ,so we are only run dicelead.com for fair purpose and no way to change any result of it" ah, well, okay then
BingoBoingo: Well, I mean the problem with new dice sites is that the barrier of entry is high. Just-Dice got to eat Satoshi-Dice's lunch because it offered something very different and in many ways better. SatoshiDice's new tribute game is going no where because... In spite of their establish name the new game just sucks.
asciilifeform: i still think the phootoore of btc games is battles of wits, not luck
asciilifeform: if one wishes to gamble, there's always daytrade
mikaeldice: I have addressed a couple of small problems that other games haven't, but I'm not at all convinced that it'll stand up to the signal:noise ratio with so many sites out there now. Time will tell eventually
kanzure: strike a deal with a physical casino
mikaeldice: This new site, for example, has some clear flaws. 1% house edge with no commission, but they give away bitcoins every hour and promise 50% commission to all referrals. The math doesn't add up.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.05 = 0.5 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9301 @ 0.00090195 = 8.389 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.25500221 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00090226 = 9.4737 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 39 @ 0.24960049 = 9.7344 BTC [-] {13}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16104 @ 0.00090102 = 14.51 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16946 @ 0.0009007 = 15.2633 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.25891833 = 0.5178 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 23 @ 0.02310034 = 0.5313 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.24510221 BTC [-]
ozbot: Two years of forum ads: get cheap forum ads for a limited time
mircea_popescu: check that out, forum ads are dead.
mircea_popescu: apparently you can't mismanage a property into the shit for 2+ years and then have it survive. who knew!
mircea_popescu: mikaeldice it's a coin in the well already, and has been since summer 2012.
mircea_popescu: as the othersd say, gotta be great, and more importantly gotta be someone first.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it first and foremost got a chance because dooglus. it'd have died an ignominable death if almost anyone else'd have tried an exact copy.
pankkake: why does the forum need ads, they have so many btc already
mircea_popescu: pankkake had, perhaps.
pankkake: right, this is bitcoin
mircea_popescu: aka spare change.
mircea_popescu: worst insult of all, nobody in the actual biz paid him even the equivalent of a bit into cheeseburger.
mircea_popescu: it's a case study in how to fuck up, this.
pankkake: lol, I could have bought one
pankkake: I'd pay 0.05 BTC just to say "butts"
mircea_popescu: you could have, but apparently you don't gas.
mircea_popescu: anyone know Bitgo btw ?
Duffer1: looks like a way too complicated localbitcoins
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26500 @ 0.0009007 = 23.8686 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: yeah i don;'t quite grok what it's supposed to be. thought maybe the owner is here.
FabianB: looks like a webwallet to me
Duffer1: like match.com but with btc escrow
mircea_popescu: hahaha that actually sounds like a fucking pitch.
mircea_popescu: "like match.com but with btc AND screw"
Duffer1: i wonder who their target market is that isn't already serviced by localbitcoins
mircea_popescu: localbitcoins is more like a brand than like an actual service servicing local markets.
mircea_popescu: mjr_ 's thing is going the same way.
mircea_popescu: his experience clearly shows that that market needs someone to put his foot down and keep at it for 5+ years.
mircea_popescu: i mean, it responded to half year's worth of pressure nicely. but it isn't enough.
Duffer1: 6months? that's first i've seen of it
Duffer1: well good luck to them :P
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 there was this attempt to make a more concrete localbitcoins, "buttonwood"
Duffer1: wasn't that supposed to be an app?
mircea_popescu: it was a central park meeting for a few months.
Duffer1: oh one of the get togethers
pankkake: there's dealco.in too
Duffer1: they talked about it a bit on letstalkbitcoin podcast
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33600 @ 0.0009007 = 30.2635 BTC [-]
ozbot: BitBet - US Federal Minimum Wage will be raised above $7.25 by the end of 2013
mircea_popescu: was it ?
kakobrekla: bitbet should change slogan from 'got milk?' to 'better than bank.'
kakobrekla: (re last two comments)
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla over lunch i was loling with one mod, because she observed that "well, for many people bitbet is a great proposition because not only it allows them to win, but also it prevents them from spending their btc in the interval.
mircea_popescu: so some kid bets 20 bucks on btc being over 1000 in six months, he gets 5 grand out."
kakobrekla: hehehe
ozbot: BitBet - USD/BTC to drop below $40 in 2013
mircea_popescu: so fucking cute, these kids.
pankkake: No pays: 0.997
mircea_popescu: i can't believe they still do nude panties.
mircea_popescu: it's 2013, yo.
pankkake: didn't miley cyprus do something like that?
pankkake: which looks like shit by the way
mircea_popescu: for a moment i thought there actually is a pron starlet named miley cyprus
pankkake: nor there is a britney spheres :/
mircea_popescu: that'd have been a 200s thing
asciilifeform: would she 'rolls without slipping on the herpolhode' ?
pankkake: haha
pankkake: I mean, I like both sluts and tongues. and this girl, EW
mircea_popescu: cmon ozbot.
Duffer1: is it just me or do her teeth look like dentures?
pankkake: just a wide smile exposing the gum?
Duffer1: oh it's a horse
mircea_popescu: "murine rights" ? fucking seriously ?
asciilifeform: this existed!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform baby you are an encyclopedia of all things timecubey
asciilifeform: al, like me, once lived under the damocle's sword of regulations on what you can do to... mice.
mircea_popescu: this for instance may be the only document on the english web using the otherwise gramatically correct and meaningful phrase
asciilifeform: al used english language the way some maniacs use perl
asciilifeform: i.e. all the features.
mircea_popescu: "997 was Media-saturated with El Niño spin - the largest El Niño event in recorded history and a non-negotiable consequence of the Greenhouse Effect! California was to be washed away under unceasing deluge as the Earth burned! The whole thing summed to one rainstorm and some backpedaling."
mircea_popescu: how quickly that was forghotten, too.
mircea_popescu: it's almost all the libertards of today are too young to have any recollection of 1997
mircea_popescu: wait... they actually are. whodda thunk you can run a political movement on the passions of teenagers.
Duffer1: liberals or libertarians?
mircea_popescu: libertards = retards who think there is such a thing as "progress"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't lose track of all these badly typeset rants, when we burn the old maculature we're going to want new maculature to replace "the history of the world" with.
asciilifeform: got old mr. schwartz complete on 4 floppies.
asciilifeform: his 'deluxe package.'
asciilifeform: 25 bux in '98.
mircea_popescu: you suppose the material can make it the original content on the cardano ?
mircea_popescu: we do have some storage space upon delivery, might as well not be empty.
asciilifeform: perhaps, i'd love to dig him up & ask him
mircea_popescu: please do.
asciilifeform: but he hasn't been answering mail for a while
asciilifeform: i'll give it a shot.
mircea_popescu: alternatively we violate copyrights and wait to be sued.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2109 @ 0.00089977 = 1.8976 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00089842 = 22.2808 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45554 @ 0.00089791 = 40.9034 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves that you ?
ozbot: BitBet - Google Glass discontinued in 2014
mircea_popescu: "Thus for example the X.IDIFF.DEC traded in January 2013 will settle on MPEx on December the 18th, 2013. Should the network difficulty at that time be 3370182 then each contract will be worth 0.03370182 BTC."
mircea_popescu: text written in january.
mircea_popescu: ;;bcstats
gribble: Current Blocks: 274938 | Current Difficulty: 9.08350862437022E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 276191 | Next Difficulty In: 1253 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 11 hours, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1094254397.86 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.46605
mircea_popescu: only about 30x off the mark.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1250 @ 0.00089977 = 1.1247 BTC [+]
nubbins`: well hello
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00089762 = 16.3816 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: what's an order of magnitude, anyway
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00279999 = 0.42 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 831 @ 0.00283178 = 2.3532 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: two, technically.
ozbot: Havelock Investments - Exchange feedback/comments
nubbins`: oo you're right
nubbins`: anyway, funny story. got this new kind of dope, been sneezing like mad
nubbins`: "oh no, i'm allergic to the marihuana"
nubbins`: turns out my basil plant started flowering again
nubbins`: snip snip, no more allergies
pankkake: ban basil plants
nubbins`: i know right? one guy sneezed a couple times
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SMG] 10000 @ 0.00016631 = 1.6631 BTC [+] {16}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27047 @ 0.00089977 = 24.3361 BTC [+]
nubbins`: basil, destroyer of youth
nubbins`: corrupter of the innocent
nubbins`: defiler of white women
mircea_popescu: pankkake so that's the end of havelock then.
mircea_popescu: ;;eauth mircea_popescu
gribble: Request successful for user mircea_popescu, hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8A736F0E2FB7B452
mircea_popescu: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:1ca25d63307a4c43316c160f03f3313ca3b609e411b15d2e2ebc05a0
gribble: You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452
nubbins`: ahahahahahaha
nubbins`: re: havelock/virtex
nubbins`: what a bunch of cock suckers
mircea_popescu: ;;rate topace -3 Ran a fake exchange, scammed noobs out of thousands of BTC. See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135035.msg3969507#msg3969507 for an example.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -3 for user topace has been recorded.
nubbins`: nay, what a bunch of dick-noses
nubbins`: i know plenty of cock suckers who are upstanding members of the community
mircea_popescu: that makes 3 out of 3 for the 2nd batch.
mircea_popescu: looking forward to the inevitable 3rd batch, of course. which will be so very different, of course.
nubbins`: so sketchy
nubbins`: where's that guy mr_e_ from the forums
nubbins`: oh, haha
nubbins`: from the link: ".."certificates" in another company called Alberta"
mircea_popescu: they're going for the gigavps scam.
nubbins`: from the announcement: "1612643 Alberta Inc. (operating as Virtex)"
nubbins`: lelel
nubbins`: joke being that you can refer to your business as <business number> <province> Inc.
nubbins`: or <business number> Canada Inc. for federally incorporated
nubbins`: anyway, time i guess to make sure my virtex account is cleared out.
nubbins`: this is going to make it a lot harder for my business to accept btc
nubbins`: ok, after reading further, it looks like holders can redeem their havelock shares for actual share certificates from virtex
nubbins`: at least they can't sell them
pankkake: and what do they get, CAD dividends?
mircea_popescu: the thing never paid dividends.
mircea_popescu: the entire bs is there to give idiots something to do with their time. "learn how to tapdance and then get your coupon for a chance to get an option to dance in front of the tv".
mircea_popescu: you know, rather than spending that same time hunting us down.
pankkake: so basically they steal your stuff but give you a paper instead
mircea_popescu: this is exactly what btc is not about.
pankkake: yeah, that's a government trademark
nubbins`: pankkake yes
nubbins`: "VirtEx took 4000 btc from an IPO in March ($150K) promising a dividend that they never delivered. Now, only 9 months later, their market reap is worth $3.6M (quite the gestation) and they are exiting the exchange. No dividend, no buyback, simply a promise to exchange currently held shares for "something else". "
pankkake: but how virtex never paid dividends? the exchange was still operating at a loss?
nubbins`: no, they were making money hand-over-fist.
asciilifeform: wtf is with 'virtex' anyway. every time i think 'xilinx'. what's next? btc product called 'coca cola' ?
nubbins`: pankkake: the "new, lower" fees are 1.5% on every trade
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform was a canada-only btc/cad exchange
nubbins`: hand. over. fist.
nubbins`: scoundrels
pankkake: that's quite expensive for an exchange
pankkake: perhaps there are not enough canadians
nubbins`: well, ya know, volume.
nubbins`: 7 day: 3000 btc
nubbins`: although that's still taking the piss
nubbins`: ;calc 3000*.015
pankkake: better than bitcoin-central :p
mircea_popescu: don't they charge the 1.5 both ways ?
nubbins`: ;;calc 3000*.015*[ticker --last]
gribble: 40686.525
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: yes
mircea_popescu: they do mpex style one side only ?
mircea_popescu: so then .03
pankkake: which is considered "high fee" with its 0.59
nubbins`: okay so they only made $40k CAD per week in fees
nubbins`: not so bad
pankkake: mpex is one side only? seller?
nubbins`: i mean, they do have like a handful of employees
nubbins`: ;;calc 3000*.03*[ticker --last]
gribble: 81373.05
pankkake: like havelock :p
pankkake: somehow I figured it was just easier to have the fee only on the seller side
mircea_popescu: nubbins` poverty and managerial incompetence are always poor excuses. they claimed they were an exchange, and can compete. then they should be an exchange and compete,
nubbins`: well if they don't plan on paying divs, there's either some serious salaries or some really shiny iMacs
mircea_popescu: rather than expect the public to donate thousands of btc to prop up their unwarranted pretensions and delusions.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: i wonder what will happen to the shares of people who don't want to hand over all their personal info?
nubbins`: bought back at a "reasonable market rate", no doubt
mircea_popescu: it's called the gigavps scam for a reason.
nubbins`: well, if nothing else, you can trade your name, address, etc for shares in an actual registered company
mircea_popescu: you can do that with five cents and a copy of the pink sheets.
mircea_popescu: if i wanted my gold arbitrarily transformed into worthless paper i'd be a us citizen.
nubbins`: sounds like a bum deal, personall
nubbins`: oh ho! good one
KRS|Gotyawallet: its not worthless!!!
KRS|Gotyawallet: a lot of it buys 1 bitcoin.
nubbins`: i wonder what the laws are regarding foreign ownership of shares
nubbins`: there was a big stink about a new wireless company not being allowed to open its doors because it was majority foreign-owned, but i'm not sure if there was industry-specific legislation
ozbot: BitBet - There will be blood
mircea_popescu: all three, you hear ?
ozbot: BitBet - And Then There Was One
mircea_popescu: tough one.
ozbot: BitBet - Havelock to restrict US investors before Dec 1st 2014
pankkake: 2 ways to win
mircea_popescu: 7 deadly sins, 7 ways to win
mircea_popescu: 7 holy paths to hell (and your trip begins)
mircea_popescu: seven downward slopes... seven bloodied hopes... seven are your burning fires...
mircea_popescu: seven, your desires...
nubbins`: pankkake: i lost on a similar one earlier this year
nubbins`: nov 5
pankkake: yeah, I lost it too
pankkake: bah, it was hedging!
pankkake: (not that it stopped everything on havecock from −90%ing)
nubbins`: interesting times
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8744 @ 0.00089977 = 7.8676 BTC [+]
KRS|Gotyawallet: whats the deal with havelock
KRS|Gotyawallet: heard the u.s. is freezing assets with panama or something
KRS|Gotyawallet: wonder how events like this play out with bitcoin
nubbins`: hm, there aren't any financial reports for vtx?
mircea_popescu: usagi was busy.
KRS|Gotyawallet: The White House said Friday the decision to freeze U.S. assets of firms in Panama, Singapore and Ukraine represented actions based on existing sanctions.
pankkake: shouldn't really affect havelock… maybe cfig which is now the same guys apparently
pankkake: "Using silly terms like “CEO of worldcoin” and “CIO of feathercoin” in their press release, UNOCS amounted to one of the most pathetic and transparent pump and dump schemes in recent times, yet people still managed to fall for it" - CEO of an altcoin. omg
mircea_popescu: KRS|Gotyawallet the ussoviet govt is running short on cash.
mircea_popescu: it's either this or no food stamps next week.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.26787751 = 0.5358 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know 40 years ago that'd have touched off a space race.
mircea_popescu: back when the beast still had some spunk in it.
mircea_popescu: so you know... this shangri-la you speak of ? where o where is it ?
asciilifeform: only in imagination.
asciilifeform: that or, sits! waiting!
mircea_popescu: sits, waiting, while china spends 20 years developing complete tactical superiority in every field.
asciilifeform: anyone knows the story of a man called Anatoliy Golitsyn?
mircea_popescu: are you aware the only reason the us army is not completely exterminated to the last man currently is that the chinese do not WANT to ?
asciilifeform: he escaped from ussr and became chums with the famous james jesus angleton.
mircea_popescu: guy that escaped to britain ?
asciilifeform: and he believed (and, afaik, still does, seems to be alive) that the ussr faked its death.
asciilifeform: that it's sitting and waiting somewhere.
KRS|Gotyawallet: thanks..gonna do some reading up on all that..i must say, some interesting times we are in.
asciilifeform: he whispered in angleton's ear, and to anyone else who'd listen, that the collapse was a sham.
asciilifeform: another guy, Nosenko, defected soon after, and told CIA that G was full of shit
KRS|Gotyawallet: I'm sorry mircea_popescu, when you say "this" did you mean bitcoin or the situation with Iran and all that.
jurov: what a fancy way to explain velvet revolution
asciilifeform: whereupon angleton had N starved in a dungeon for a few years
asciilifeform: so he'd 'confess'
mircea_popescu: KRS|Gotyawallet in the food stamps context ? the stealing of people's money by the usg.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hard angle to sell for all the people that were offered to buy still workjing nuclear subs.
asciilifeform: that came later.
asciilifeform: after A was fired.
mircea_popescu: so did it or didn't it ?
KRS|Gotyawallet: anyone have word on cyprus? that was big news a while back and I was wondering if bitcoin was of help to them.
asciilifeform: that isn't the point. the point that there are always people at a wake saying the corpse isn't one, until it starts to stink.
mircea_popescu: and after.
asciilifeform: sometimes even after.
mircea_popescu: there are still people who figure germany had a decent shot in ww2.
asciilifeform: there are people (i'm told, in sweden) who believe that nazis still run everything.
mircea_popescu: which they do, inasmuch as they handling money can't be libertards, and a sliver of libertards believe everyone who's not equally retarded is a fascist
mircea_popescu: starting with their parents.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 40 @ 0.05 = 2 BTC
KRS|Gotyawallet: what do you all think about amt mining hardware? nwcwe heard of em
mircea_popescu: link or something ?
asciilifeform: are there actually happy miners somewhere (vs. mining hw vendors), or are they all busily going broke and cursing each other for the 'arms race' ?
KRS|Gotyawallet: of course..it is an arms race indeed and they're killing each other over it
asciilifeform: botnets appear to be switching to strategically ddosing pools instead of mining.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mining is not intended or designed to be a productive activity generally.
asciilifeform: (i study botnets)
mircea_popescu: it's intended to approximately break even, which means most people will book a loss.
asciilifeform: that's my understanding. which leaves the question: wtf?
asciilifeform: why do people play
mircea_popescu: (which adds cosmic perspective to the mpex view of the world, imagine there exists another whole "Ecosystem" out there made principally out of companies whose business model is operating in a not profitable by design market, and those are 90%+ of the revenue)
KRS|Gotyawallet: asciilifeform: where i used to work we got hacked and one of our servers was made part of a botnet..i tracked them down to an irc channel in the philippines..done with perl..it was pretty basic stuff but still cool to take apart. they got in because the idiots setting up the server didn't secure the /tmp directory and jboss had its admin console exposed.
mircea_popescu: anyway, people mine because if they don't mine then it's profitable
mircea_popescu: if they do hopwever it is not.
mircea_popescu: perfect cocktrap.
KRS|Gotyawallet: management was too busy worrying about time to market and couldnt be bothered with sill things like security
asciilifeform: two drunks each pay the other $100 to eat spoon of shit.
mircea_popescu: precisely.
mircea_popescu: mpoe-pr quoted buffett on the textile market to the forum until she fell over.
mircea_popescu: it isn't something that can be helped symbolically.
asciilifeform: i once saw the term 'tournament market' used to describe this situation
mircea_popescu: it's a really great way to use the market for a good purpose. in this case, we get the strongest blockchain money can buy.
mircea_popescu: other people's money.
asciilifeform: and that it is normal and unavoidable in some spheres (athletic hopefuls, junior professors, etc.)
mircea_popescu: this isn't that thio.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00090226 = 8.4812 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: most of the participants get fucked, the survivors win.
mircea_popescu: the similarity is superficial.
mircea_popescu: a tournament market, like typiocally the 1mn starlets waiting tables in hollywood is there to exploit labour.
mircea_popescu: this system is here to exploit capital.
pankkake: maybe if mining stays out of amateurs it will be profitable
mircea_popescu: that's exactly what can't happen.
mircea_popescu: mining has to be "distributed", which means, it must remain unprofitable for large ventures.
pankkake: because those certainly don't want to understand they will lose
pankkake: it has to be decentralized, who cares about being distributed
mircea_popescu: i guess the two are synonyms in this context.
asciilifeform: i often wonder, how much centralization would it take to send people running for the exits
asciilifeform: say beijing builds an optical computer out of unobtainium
pankkake: meh. people seem to thing every little guy mining is good
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're asking "how much worsening of italian delis would take for mobsters to abandon manhattan"
pankkake: I just think that no central authority is good
mircea_popescu: it will never happen, they will start shooting deli owners in the street.
pankkake: better be big businesses than 15 year old gamers
mircea_popescu: pankkake i am one who believes every little guy mining is good.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: more like 'how much background radiation would it take to get mobsters out of manhattan'
pankkake: use litecoin then :p
asciilifeform: reminds me of russia's (and, for that matter, u.s.) disappearing auto industry
asciilifeform: all good and well, rational to close down the plants, until the boats with toyotas stop coming.
mircea_popescu: which is why small guys mining is good.
mircea_popescu: it's like farming.
mircea_popescu: (of course, in this perspective mega-bitcoin-corporations a la asicminer are small guys too)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.261 = 0.522 BTC [-]
KRS|Gotyawallet: anyone have a comment on amt mining gear
mircea_popescu: KRS|Gotyawallet why do you think this is even a thing ?
mircea_popescu: noob makes random thread on btctalk five weeks ago. he's nobody and his thing doesn't exist.
KRS|Gotyawallet: damnit..such scam. much drama
KRS|Gotyawallet: i want to scam the scammer someday..that would be +10000
mircea_popescu: russellthies Jr. Member, 5 posts : "I received an email from Jim on Dec. 3rd, regarding my 1.2 th/s order (541). At that time he told me that they were working on the final "board tweaks" and that if they were late it would be by a week or so."
mircea_popescu: noobs will be noobs.
KRS|Gotyawallet: the crux of the problem is nobody wants to seek funding for their venture, they'd rather take "preorder" money as capital to launch their offering..since when should the customer take that risk
KRS|Gotyawallet: you said it..noobs.
mircea_popescu: KRS|Gotyawallet you can't "scam the scammer" because the scammer has enough fucking sense to respect the first rule of investing, which is, don't randomly sent btc.
mircea_popescu: that's the end of that.
KRS|Gotyawallet: but it would be nice
mircea_popescu: anyway, there are instruments to handle these problem, as described http://trilema.com/2013/the-positive-market-effects-of-the-delivery-bet/
mircea_popescu: all people need to do is use them.
mircea_popescu: if they don't want to use them... why's that a problem.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 303 @ 0.00283499 = 0.859 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 886 @ 0.001 = 0.886 BTC
mircea_popescu: KRS|Gotyawallet were you around back when primeasic showed and disappeared ?
KRS|Gotyawallet: yes this article is exactly what im talking about
KRS|Gotyawallet: they were but a spec on the timeline i long forgot about that name
ozbot: PrimeAsic - Most likely a scam. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: some prime investigative reporting by kakobrekla there.
KRS|Gotyawallet: there was so much other news, barely caught my eye
mircea_popescu: this is why we don't care about such. noobs don't get to start businesses.
KRS|Gotyawallet: my problem is i have to identify each offering to find out if they've made a significant investment..on the surface, i have no idea..and its a shame these other folks dond either. ie skyminer
KRS|Gotyawallet: took people for 1000's of btc afaik
mircea_popescu: "people".
mircea_popescu: people know better than that.
mircea_popescu: noob starts business ? scam. end of discussion, no questuions asked. if he's a businessman he's known.
mircea_popescu: mining venture taking preorders and no delivery bet ? scam. no questions need to be asked or answered past "what's the link to your delivery bet"
KRS|Gotyawallet: i noticed they wont even blast their offering out there, it will be something subtle like a link in a trollbox somewhere so some sucker is all juicy over btc fortunes he just plunks down his 12 btc or whatever
mircea_popescu: gotta learn somehow, you know ?
KRS|Gotyawallet: actually its good both ways, darwin effect at work in business
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] [PAID] 1.34510223 BTC to 9`573 shares, 14051 satoshi per share
KRS|Gotyawallet: i need a scam..not sure what though..mass mailings is getting old
asciilifeform: KRS|Gotyawallet: sell gpu cards with magic firmware to ltc miners.
KRS|Gotyawallet: deface scam sites, redirect btc payments from noobs
asciilifeform: KRS|Gotyawallet: set up tor exits which replace SD addrs with yours.
asciilifeform: since when is there a shortage of ideas for cheats
KRS|Gotyawallet: haha very crevar
mircea_popescu: not something you'd wish to do, really.
asciilifeform: i mean, if you're not above scam
mircea_popescu: the irony embedded in the entire fucktard ecosystem (meaning, the noobs and those fleecing them) is that it really is quite self limiting and not particularly prosperous.
mircea_popescu: ie, being a scammer is not really so many steps about being a clueless noob.
asciilifeform: there's a delicate predator-prey equilibrium, though
asciilifeform: if some clever fellow runs a scam, he will harvest so many idiots that that particular species of scam won't work again - at least not without major cosmetic remodelling.
mircea_popescu: not really, most situations evolve as boundless systems
mircea_popescu: that particularly is not true, the warrior forum is still running two or three major scams pioneered in 1995
mircea_popescu: just like the porn studios are still basically doing, boy meets girl, boy gets girl.
asciilifeform: i still suspect that there is a large - but finite - supply of chumpatron fuel. at least of any particular variety.
mircea_popescu: what else are they gonna do. once they're in porn they're in porn.
KRS|Gotyawallet: no going back
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. it equals exactly "entitlement" spending by governments.
mircea_popescu: look at the us budget for each year, you'll know about how much the taxpayer is paying to support scammers.
KRS|Gotyawallet: its like dick sucking..a guy cant just go and suck one dick and still be straight. even though it was just one dick he's a faggot.
asciilifeform: 'great fleas have little fleas, on their backs to bite them...'
KRS|Gotyawallet: just because he sucked one dick does that make him gay?
asciilifeform: 'bob the bridge-builder.'
KRS|Gotyawallet: ascoolifeform ever sniff an exit node
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.24530035 = 0.7359 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: KRS|Gotyawallet: no comment. but i recommend the exercise.
KRS|Gotyawallet: thats what i thought
asciilifeform: if you publish your results, do it in some way that cannot be readily linked to you in meatspace.
asciilifeform: lest you end up like that swede.
KRS|Gotyawallet: i wouldnt know how to publish results like that without taking it up the ass so i just site out the whole exercise.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.24309999 = 2.431 BTC [-] {4}
KRS|Gotyawallet: i mean..i could i just dont have the effort in me
asciilifeform: it doesn't take long.
KRS|Gotyawallet: the net has become so clandestine now
KRS|Gotyawallet: i lived for years and years with a black cloud over my head from all the tele op phreaking i did as a kid, professional warez importer..got tired of looking over my shoulder.
asciilifeform: funnily, tor has made lusers' traffic more public than it ever was before.
KRS|Gotyawallet: mci hated me
KRS|Gotyawallet: yeah thats the beauty of it rly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.243 = 1.458 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1800 @ 0.00090226 = 1.6241 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32700 @ 0.0009033 = 29.5379 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 23 @ 0.05 = 1.15 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.24280002 = 0.9712 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.2426 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.24252 = 0.485 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10250 @ 0.0009044 = 9.2701 BTC [+] {2}
copumpkin: MPOE is doing pretty well these days
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 60 @ 0.05 = 3 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23504 @ 0.00090477 = 21.2657 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 114 @ 0.05 = 5.7 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35923 @ 0.00090026 = 32.34 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.05 = 0.5 BTC
bloctoc: copumpkin don't these people know that bbet has a bunch of bets expiring year end?
copumpkin: I don't either :)
copumpkin: what bets?
bloctoc: not really sure myself, just got pumping I guesss
mircea_popescu: what people ?
fiat500: what do you mean /you people/
mircea_popescu: copumpkin it just had a bad month actually.
copumpkin: yeah, I saw the latest report
copumpkin: perhaps people are hopeful for the next month :)
mircea_popescu: as it is shares don't really care.
copumpkin: yeah, that's why I have shares :P
bloctoc: I mean the people buying mpoe instead of bitbet shares at the year's end.
mircea_popescu: that latest looks more like it was a sale
mircea_popescu: anyway, im off. catch you all later.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.254 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17027 @ 0.00089812 = 15.2923 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.246 BTC [-]
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