Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-12-02 | 2018-12-04 → ↓
spyked: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html <-- seems to have been lost in friday's deedbot downtime.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1875947 <-- hm. so I'm seeing a few distinct problems here. 1. de-googlifying the bootloader (and getting rid of the cr50 mess); 2. using a non-googlistic kernel; and 3. replacing the rootfs with a cuntoo userspace. if I understood correctly, then 2 depends on googlistic signing software because of 1, but 3 should be doable either way (if anything, ave1's compiler is a more immediate requirement to get
a111: Logged on 2018-11-29 14:51 asciilifeform: presently, cuntoo won't run there (even if trinque's process can be coaxed into building arm64 bins) cuz it has no way of blessing the kernel.
spyked: the userspace built).
spyked: anyway, I got the c101pa because I need a lightweight machine for travelling. so I might as well assess whether it's possible to build a somewhat sane system on it for productive work.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859582 -> following up on this, the presentation will happen next Monday (10th December), 4.15pm GMT; it's one hour only so I'm not that sure there will be enough time to get online at the end of it but who knows, maybe some students will actually get it and even... do something with it
a111: Logged on 2018-10-08 18:50 diana_coman: in other possible interesting things: I got invited to give a talk to students at local uni (Reading, UK) on "bitcoin and blockchain"; personally I'm not all that keen on it but given the recent ideas regarding reach out and all that, I am at least considering this; any input on this is welcome
mircea_popescu: spyked interesting regrind-with-historicity.
mircea_popescu: previous thinking was generally that a regrind pretty much means collapsing a whole tree into a single genesis patch. but thinking about it i don't see why that has to be the case, if there's the hands to do more fine work.
mircea_popescu: hey did http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875888 actually come to anything ? can i finally invoice that coin an' a half ?
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 20:30 BingoBoingo: Mocky: Will ask, tyvm
mircea_popescu: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html#selection-147.0-147.65 << nice work. imo this is a fine golden standard, "test all noted V implementations on a regrind/regenesis."
mircea_popescu: might as well, seems eminently the right time and place for such testing.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877909 << (3) is potentially doable but will leave you marooned with one kernel, unless you have a second, similar box -- google's shitware is dynlinked and wont run under musltronic cuntoo
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 10:39 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1875947 <-- hm. so I'm seeing a few distinct problems here. 1. de-googlifying the bootloader (and getting rid of the cr50 mess); 2. using a non-googlistic kernel; and 3. replacing the rootfs with a cuntoo userspace. if I understood correctly, then 2 depends on googlistic signing software because of 1, but 3 should be doable either way (if anything, ave1's compiler is a more immediate requirement to get
asciilifeform: ( the 'signing' shitware, that is )
asciilifeform: as for (1) , recall that i did find a partial break that lets operator 'debrick' ( flash bootloader via usb )
asciilifeform: what i never had time to bake is a working replacement for their faux-uboot thing.
asciilifeform: ( theoretically theirs is 'open sores' but building it requires a multi-GB toolchain that i never succeeded in getting to run )
asciilifeform: if you can build it, potentially quickest pill is to transplant the trad fs logic from uboot to it ( google's shitware demands that the kernel lie on a custom googlistic partition, and be 'signed' with their sad-rsa in custom format etc )
asciilifeform: spyked: keep in mind that to do almosg anything useful with the box, requires the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2415 cable
asciilifeform: ( iirc you can now buy 'official' one in various places, 20 $ u.s. or so )
mod6: Mornin'
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877917 << If this is regarding payment for the 9.5k wFF, I sent payment at the beginning of November, Sir: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867587 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-01#1868263
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 13:11 mircea_popescu: hey did http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875888 actually come to anything ? can i finally invoice that coin an' a half ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-30 05:20 mod6: !Xbid 1004 1500000001
a111: Logged on 2018-11-01 14:13 mod6: !!pay mircea_popescu 1.50000001
asciilifeform: wb mod6
mod6: hai asciilifeform
asciilifeform: !#seen esthlos
a111: 2018-10-23 <esthlos> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864316 << apologies alf, I'm running behind! trying to gather time to get caught up in the next week or two
asciilifeform: http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com << last update : nov. 2. which is a shame, imho these were a++ summaries
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877916 << to date we've had both types of regrind ( e.g. diana_coman reground 'mpi' into 1 genesis, for use in smg ; ffa on other hand had a 'history-preserving' regrind , http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2743 ; and iirc mod6 is baking a 'history' regrind for trb ; diana_coman had 'history' regrind for eucrypt; and possibly i missed somebody in this list )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 13:08 mircea_popescu: previous thinking was generally that a regrind pretty much means collapsing a whole tree into a single genesis patch. but thinking about it i don't see why that has to be the case, if there's the hands to do more fine work.
mircea_popescu: true enough.
asciilifeform: incidentally i still gotta keccak-regrind FG ( no one complained, but it still gotta be done )
asciilifeform: and guten morgen mircea_popescu !
asciilifeform: my current understanding is that '1 genesis' regrind is when yer ready to 'swallow' a proggy into own project , and take over its maintenance with own hands ; 'history' is when regrinding own proggy, for manifestism/keccakism etc
asciilifeform: ( 'swallowing' is not mutually exclusive, necessarily, with supplying patches upstream to orig -- diana_coman , for instance, 'swallowed' ada-udp , but did also post patches for my tree, a+++ )
asciilifeform: ( it's a reusable component, and i expect will appear elsewhere , so this is quite helpful )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877907 << my orig proof-of-concept v.py did not Do Right Thing on multiple branches in some tree shapes ( iirc phf orig discovered this effect, yrs ago ) , prolly i oughta rewrite the relevant piece , given as some folx other than asciilifeform apparently still want to use v.py
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 10:26 spyked: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html <-- seems to have been lost in friday's deedbot downtime.
asciilifeform hands 100% full with ffa , presently
asciilifeform: ( ch14 in particular, is the most algebra-heavy ch to date, and it's beginning to look like i'ma have to cut it in 2 as i did with ch 12 )
asciilifeform: it's the 1 with the barrett proof.
asciilifeform still carrying on with the promise given in ch1 , 'you oughta be able to eat a ch in ~1hour'. tho i do not know if succeeded to date, so far no one said how long it took'em to eat
asciilifeform: trinque: i put a calendar slot orig for sat. dec 2 to test cuntoo, but it got stolen by saecular liquishit; sadly i'ma have to postpone until i get ch14
asciilifeform: ( sad troof : sumtimes asciilifeform's lamp gets rubbed even on weekend, and he goes to grant wishes.. )
mircea_popescu: well, hour, week, what diff does it make, we live forever
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you want to link in dec. snsa broadcast, the nov '18 ch's are 12A, 12B, 13 .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yea olympus lives 4evah, but asciilifeform is making a serious stab at rolling with the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2735 release calendar
mircea_popescu: in shit entirely unrelated to anything, but since we're doing links : hey alf, you ever ran into https://dadatroll.wordpress.com/2010/04/27/eu-erou-al-timpurilor-noastre/ ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dun thinkso
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is this re that time in old world where mircea_popescu drove commie 'poet' to death of drink ?
mircea_popescu: turns out there's a 2010 version of "mp has spaceship wtf"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a futurist/urmuz-style satyre of what was perceived in ro context as my strictly insane perspective on things
mircea_popescu: "wash ?! BWAHAHAHA WHAT NEXT!!!"
asciilifeform: i was somehow under impression that in those days ~errybody with a comp and a modem in ro regularly read mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: (likbez : 1800s people thought vaccination will lead to cows coming out of people)
asciilifeform: famous pic
asciilifeform: iirc was split b/w 'grow udders' and 'god's wrath' variants
mircea_popescu: yeah but the more biological horn seems more interesting to me. the other just stale dry biscuit.
mircea_popescu: "something happened ? god's wrath!" not exactly much intellectually adherent.
asciilifeform: 'biological horn' made comebacks when blood transfusion 'oh noez, will subsume personality of donor' and then in '80s for pig organs and whoknows nao
mircea_popescu: and all this just because women take on the personality of the cock they wrap around.
asciilifeform brb,teatime
mircea_popescu: though, the important part isn't of course "how insane that was", but rather ~how reasonable~. the reason it's even called "vacca-cination" is because original 1800s version preceded a good understanding of microbics, and was purely "if this done, this comes out" black boxk of human body approach. used literal chunklets of infected cow to generate immunity in humans to DIFFERENT strain of virus (ie, measles, like cowpox, same
mircea_popescu: glycoproteins on cover thus crossimmunity works).
mircea_popescu: the perfectly sound logic being that "if we follow the proponents, and believe stuffing human with selecrted bits of beef, has medical effects of a type, why not believe it has medical effects of another type!"
mircea_popescu: which isn't insane in any sense, on the contrary, ~fucking reasonable~.
mircea_popescu: and incidentally, it's only called vaccination to convey the (at the time important) notation that "it's like variolation, but with cow bits". because exposure to variola infected tissue had been used for half a century or more by then.
mircea_popescu: (possibly millenia, really, it's an iffy point)
lobbes: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html << this is pretty cool Spyked. I'ma give your regrind of logbot_command_router_python_genesis a test and if it all presses I'll sign
lobbes: this also gives me another reason to take diana_coman's V setup for a spin (http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/13/v-with-vtools-keccak-hashes-and-its-own-tree/)
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf loox like dks is selling another! 'ivory' on lulzbay >> https://archive.is/Bkm8E
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: lobbes: asciilifeform currently using diana_coman's vtron , worx a+++
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you know of specifics re the 'millenia' item, i'd be quite curious to see, 1st time i hear of this notion (outside of the hindu nationalist lolcows, who are deadly certain that they had nuke and supercomputer 'millenia' ago also.. )
asciilifeform: kinda smacks of ye olde 'bagdad battery' ( i.e. 'they ~could~ have, and we found these-here vaguely suggestive pot shards..' )
asciilifeform went an' actually read http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877963 , turns out its sorta opposite sign bit from what i assumed
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 15:46 mircea_popescu: in shit entirely unrelated to anything, but since we're doing links : hey alf, you ever ran into https://dadatroll.wordpress.com/2010/04/27/eu-erou-al-timpurilor-noastre/ ?
asciilifeform: ( loox like it's 1 of those 'haha, he thinks he has courage, let him sit in gulag! see how much courage then!' sorta flames )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877980 << l. szilard's proposition that los alamos nuke might chainreact atmosphere, was neither moar nor less 'insane'
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 15:53 mircea_popescu: though, the important part isn't of course "how insane that was", but rather ~how reasonable~. the reason it's even called "vacca-cination" is because original 1800s version preceded a good understanding of microbics, and was purely "if this done, this comes out" black boxk of human body approach. used literal chunklets of infected cow to generate immunity in humans to DIFFERENT strain of virus (ie, measles, like cowpox, same
asciilifeform: ( and iirc he in fact undershot the probability by an order of magnitude, when calculating )
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877917 << Per mod6's notes and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877931 he didn't wait for an invoice before firing off payment
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 13:11 mircea_popescu: hey did http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875888 actually come to anything ? can i finally invoice that coin an' a half ?
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 15:14 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877917 << If this is regarding payment for the 9.5k wFF, I sent payment at the beginning of November, Sir: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867587 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-01#1868263
BingoBoingo: And the datacenter just sent the statement of account showing receipt of the wires
BingoBoingo: !Xbuy .5 bn 96 2k wFF
auctionbot: BingoBoingo: Eggog: Please express the opening bid as a positive integer
BingoBoingo: !xbuy 500 mn 96 2k wFF
danielpbarron: no space between 500 and mn
BingoBoingo: !xbuy 500mn 96 2k wFF
BingoBoingo: !Xbuy 500mn 96 2k wFF
auctionbot: Buy order # 1009 created by BingoBoingo: 2k wFF Opening: 500mn ecu Ending: 2018-12-07 06:34:14.465343 UTC (95 hours)
BingoBoingo: Ah, X needed capitalized as well
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877916 <-- doing the regrind, I also had the sense that "this is akin to fitting lego pieces together in order to obtain meaningful result". and I'm pretty sure there's a log line describing v patches this way, but I couldn't find it.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 13:08 mircea_popescu: previous thinking was generally that a regrind pretty much means collapsing a whole tree into a single genesis patch. but thinking about it i don't see why that has to be the case, if there's the hands to do more fine work.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877921 <-- noted. this placement of heathen os in the bootstrapping process is indeed big problem and I hadn't previously considered it.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 14:43 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877909 << (3) is potentially doable but will leave you marooned with one kernel, unless you have a second, similar box -- google's shitware is dynlinked and wont run under musltronic cuntoo
asciilifeform: spyked: the other headache is that google's orig boot rom will format your hdd if you forget to hit ctrl-d on coldboot
asciilifeform: i find this intolerable on any box used for anything serious whatsoever, so my c101pa is presently gathering dust
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877949 <-- ftr, v.py was the first vtron that I read, and I think it's a great didactic implem (though nowadays esthlos v is imho a good competitor in that field)
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 15:33 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877907 << my orig proof-of-concept v.py did not Do Right Thing on multiple branches in some tree shapes ( iirc phf orig discovered this effect, yrs ago ) , prolly i oughta rewrite the relevant piece , given as some folx other than asciilifeform apparently still want to use v.py
asciilifeform: spyked: it's the 1st one most folx used, given as it was the first vtron
spyked: asciilifeform, does boot rom reflash disk with chrome os, or what?
asciilifeform: spyked: it does, and immediately , if you forget the ctrl-d 'dev mode' ritual
trinque: spyked: you want to do the RSS handoff this evening (in say 8hrs, since I dunno where you're at on this orb) ?
asciilifeform: remember, they sell that thing as a dumb terminal, with only a token bone thrown to 'yes you can install own os' notion
trinque: I'll give you a list of current PM subscriptions so you can keep firing those for people.
trinque: (included in a whole dump of subscriptions)
spyked: trinque, I can do in max 3hrs from now (I'm on utc+2 time, and will have to go sleep soon). but yeah, send me all the subscriptions when you have time, so I can cross-check with the ones that I have.
asciilifeform bbl;meat
spyked: (or I can arrange getting up early one of the following days, say wednesday to fit trinque's schedule)
trinque: nah, how bout now then?
spyked: trinque, sounds good
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877986 <-- cheers! /me is looking forward to that (then adding http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862345 to logbot shouldn't be very difficult)
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 16:27 lobbes: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html << this is pretty cool Spyked. I'ma give your regrind of logbot_command_router_python_genesis a test and if it all presses I'll sign
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 15:05 lobbes: (to begin, it will not have self-voice capability. Spyked's voicer is for the ircbot branch of the tree sadly, so I will need to add voicing to the logbot branch. However, I figure that can wait for another day)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877991 << it's pretty certain ming chinese used "insert bits of sick person" process, via insufflation of scabs. this part is not controversial, there's multiple period descriptions of the item.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 16:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you know of specifics re the 'millenia' item, i'd be quite curious to see, 1st time i hear of this notion (outside of the hindu nationalist lolcows, who are deadly certain that they had nuke and supercomputer 'millenia' ago also.. )
mircea_popescu: people trading silk with china (ie, various arab groups) started doing something similar, 16ish century.
mircea_popescu: in any case it was never common, more of a rich folk giving young bride best chances sorta affair, "if i'ma spend a fortune rising this special camel it'd better sniff dead corpses" sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: but i mean, they had elaborate (and interesting) customs, how many scabs, how long to dry (fresh scabs pretty much communicate variola, but dry ones are safe because virions very fragile, readily inactivated by dryness), which nostril to use (girls got left), how to make the blower and what out of (silver) and so on.
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=98 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 11/17/2018
lobbes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sV2GA/?raw=true << diana_coman, asciilifeform, or other users of vk.pl, have you encountered this barf before? Trying to test my installation of diana_coman's v setup by pressing eucrypt from http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/
lobbes: Since this was my first time using vtools, I used diana's "starter v" with the build.sh. Script ran fine, and vtools such as ksum are working. I installed GNAT from https://www.adacore.com/download (the x86-64 GNU Linux). I'm on my debian box, gcc version 4.9.2
lobbes been staring at terminal most of the day, so gonna step away to grab some $food. bbl
diana_coman: lobbes, never seen that before but it seems related to gnat version?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/more-than-440-us-military-service-members-sextorted-by-prisoners/ << Qntra - More Than 440 US Military Service Members Sextorted By Prisoners
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878039 << pretty interesting, plox to post if you end up remembering where saw this orig
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 20:09 mircea_popescu: but i mean, they had elaborate (and interesting) customs, how many scabs, how long to dry (fresh scabs pretty much communicate variola, but dry ones are safe because virions very fragile, readily inactivated by dryness), which nostril to use (girls got left), how to make the blower and what out of (silver) and so on.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878041 << this loox possibly like failure of the tempfile mechanism ( as discussed in recent thread )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 20:52 lobbes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sV2GA/?raw=true << diana_coman, asciilifeform, or other users of vk.pl, have you encountered this barf before? Trying to test my installation of diana_coman's v setup by pressing eucrypt from http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/
asciilifeform: lobbes: post strace plox
asciilifeform: ( does it ever create the file at that path ? if so, failed ? etc )
asciilifeform: and in general this is gold standard for 'wtf is this' debug. pleez post strace log folx!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878042 << btw current standard gnat is ave1's , you can use the heathen one (at least with asciilifeform's proggies, worx) but 'no warranty'
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 20:52 lobbes: Since this was my first time using vtools, I used diana's "starter v" with the build.sh. Script ran fine, and vtools such as ksum are working. I installed GNAT from https://www.adacore.com/download (the x86-64 GNU Linux). I'm on my debian box, gcc version 4.9.2
asciilifeform: ( starting with ch12 all ffa tested strictly on ave1's gnat )
asciilifeform: granted ave1's gnat still has 'miles to go' in some aspects, gotta be de-autoconf'd ( asciilifeform aint ever signing ANYTHING with autoconfolade in it ) and genesis'd. but it worx a++, is portable (to arm, currently) and is frozen, which is good bit moar than can be said for adacore's thing
diana_coman: hm, if it's indeed the tmp thing, it might be worth a try to press vtools to current leaf (i.e. vtools_tempfile_standalone or _notmp) and see if that cures it; my archive contains pressed vtools to ksum patch only, not further
bvt: lobbes: i am also interested in learning which gnat version/type and vtools leaf was used, and seeing strace output; i thought this error can happen only on adacore gnat >=2017 with a strict libc (which rejects 3-character template)
spyked: hey trinque, you still on for changing rss bots? I should be around for another 30 minutes or so. depending on the number of feeds/subscribers, it may take me a while to check/add everything, so we could do this in two steps: you send me the subscriptions (pm, #trilema and everything else) tonight whenever you can, and then I'll add them tomorrow and fire up feedbot whenever you're available to turn off deedbot rss
trinque: spyked: lets do that, sounds good.
trinque: sorry about that, got dragged into something in meatspace meanwhile.
lobbes: diana_coman, bvt: this was indeed a newer adacore (from May 2018) https://www.adacore.com/download. I'm going to look into the tempfile thread alf mentioned. may very well be the same issue
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878050 << here's my strace on pressing just eucrypt_genesis.vpatch >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TSSVE/?raw=true
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 21:38 asciilifeform: lobbes: post strace plox
lobbes: however I'm not sure even -strace- is working (or perhaps I'm just doing it wrong). for e.g. here's an strace of just "./vk.pl". It just hangs and gives nothing else (same as if I strace the press or just strace "cat /dev/null") >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QN42P/?raw=true
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878051 << does not create the file, but creates the directories
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 21:39 asciilifeform: ( does it ever create the file at that path ? if so, failed ? etc )
lobbes: at this point I'm thinking I may just retry this on, say, the rockchip. I dun want to burn republican hours on what just may be debian/shitgnome strange.
lobbes is soon going to grab a spare lappy so as to test out cuntoo and finally have a sane os with e.g. ave1's gnat, etc.
asciilifeform: lobbes: that doesn't look like a strace output
lobbes: hm
bvt: please use strace -f
lobbes: will do
bvt: howeve i see that you are stracing a vk.pl, not vpatch itself. tracing vk.pl would give too much information, it would help to see only strace -f vpatch < patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch
spyked: trinque ok, np.
spyked switches off for the night
lobbes: btv: I wonder if just my strace is borked. here's the trace from vpatch < patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GU1GJ/?raw=true
lobbes: for comparison, here's "strace -f ls" >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tqhRh/?raw=true
lobbes: seems borked there as well
lobbes: anyways, I'm try this later on a sane os, and with a gnat < 2017 (will also re-read some of the recent gnat threads).
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878032 << I actually ended up getting a logbot_command_router-based self-voicing thing working (auctionbot uses it), but it uses the interface-with-gpg method instead of the stash-of-OTP method, and considering we may be moving to a new voice model anyways I did not publish (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1851087)
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 19:50 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877986 <-- cheers! /me is looking forward to that (then adding http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862345 to logbot shouldn't be very difficult)
a111: Logged on 2018-09-17 22:22 trinque: wot rating lookup isn't heavy at all, sounds like a plan.
lobbes: However, if anyone wants (once I get a proper keccak v going) I can make a private patch on request (a la http://trilema.com/2018/the-v-questionarium-answerarium-2018-edition/#selection-327.0-327.204)
lobbes off to meat
mircea_popescu: jesus christ these #mootoo's.
mircea_popescu: LordMPofTMSR 38M Master 3h "Think of it as an intelligence test. That you're failing." Violet13s 21F sub 3h 'Well whatever you said in the subject box I can't see so I have no idea what " intelligence test " your trying to have me show you. So I'm not really failing, if you want to find out my intelligence you should just message it.'
mircea_popescu: how can one even come up with this shit ?
mircea_popescu: this whole fetlife thing has firmly convinced me i'd have been deeply unequipped to convincingly write a millenial before. one really needs to experience the unleashed stupid to be able to conceptualize just what garbage these shitstacks are.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-20 17:38 asciilifeform: PARRY: You should pay more attention. ELIZA: Suppose you should pay more attention. PARRY: You're entitled to your own opinion. ELIZA:What makes you think I am entitled to my own opinion? ..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can't conceive how this'd be mechanized.
asciilifeform: wainot ? just seed the eliza with buncha variants of same garbage 'ugh i can't see what's in the msg box' and yer golden
mircea_popescu: eliza will come up with the idea of "messaging her intelligence" ? ie, enact it as a distinct-disembodied-totem of herself ?
asciilifeform: there's, what, 5 or 6 things they emit ( incl. the 'i have a dom' , 'i am a dom', etc claptrap )
mircea_popescu: this sort of procedure creates high poetry, to be remembered over the millenia. if, of course, in the hands of humans as opposed to whatever-us-got.
asciilifeform: 'if you want to find out my $keyword just message it'
asciilifeform: stock eliza will perform a++.
asciilifeform: just set the knobs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you're going to pattern-match this closely your "eliza" will be ~alphabet sized. 1tb phonebook not really "artificial" in any sense, merely parrotlicious.
asciilifeform: it's a really notbad idjit-emulator.
mircea_popescu: it's terrible.
asciilifeform: of course parrot. how else.
asciilifeform: the 'people' are very similar parrots tho.
mircea_popescu: this is the point im making. before fetlife lulz, i thought as you do, "eliza a+ idiot emulator"
mircea_popescu: utterly not true.
mircea_popescu: not formally similar, no. substantially ~identical, yes. functionally predictable. formally mindboggling.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever try bot that picks 2 derps and sets'em against 1 another ?
mircea_popescu: (you understand, what she ~actually means~ is that i should send her whatever test i want her to take, ~in the form her Divine Mother taught her to test-take~.)
asciilifeform: hm in point of fact didn't
asciilifeform: i had nfi how to parse 'just message it'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it doesn't work, because believe this wonder! they have built-in de-engager (they follow complex rules as to the volume of comms, that look oddly reminiscent of "why fusion won't go")
asciilifeform: electron shells? pretty interesting.
mircea_popescu: as a very basic intro level (like "atom is cake with electron raisins in it"), they have a 60% rule, where the response wordcount will be on a curve centered on ~60% of input. yes sometimes will answer 120% or like in the rare case quoted yest, perturber in excited state, 600%. nevertheless, if you sum over the millions...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever rule out hypothesis that there's a diff heathen pit where moar % actual people and fewer % elizas ?
mircea_popescu: "This despicable targeting of our brave service members will never be tolerated," said Director Andrew Traver << top keks, check it out, "it's not child porn NAO!!!"
asciilifeform: or is there really just that 1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's 1 with more, not fewer ; then there's the 100% bot items, like http://qntra.net/2016/12/ashley-madison-settles-again/
asciilifeform: these yes ( iirc even their actual eliza proggy leaked )
a111: Logged on 2017-05-22 15:29 mircea_popescu: collarme.com was the original ; entitled wifey tried to run off with domain name / blackmail hubby. lengthy "awareness raising" fembs. dude ignored her thoroughly, reg'd new name, six weeks later she's entirely forgotten.
asciilifeform wonders how many kilometres of eliza log mircea_popescu ends up reading per 1 actual nicoleci worth of yield
asciilifeform: just how many tonnes of sea water per kg of U
mircea_popescu: the current estimate is about ~1 ppm, give or take 65%. which i'm sure she'll love to read in the log. howdy slut!
asciilifeform: about what % reach the stage where mircea_popescu bothers with keyboard input ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, i usually read the extreme scores, if doing nothing in particular. not exactly a waste of time, the shit that gets dredged up...
asciilifeform: heh, it's prolly moar interesting that e.g. server lint trap contents, yea
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform greatly depends on how inclined i feel lol. maybe 15ppm or so.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, think -- spam trap WITH LIVE IDIOT on other end. did you never feel like "hey, are you stupid ?" @those doods ?
asciilifeform: notbad, if 1 in 15 that actually take manual input, end up turning into nicoleci
mircea_popescu: usually i write to mock/amuse self not to select/instruct, tho.
asciilifeform: makes sense
mircea_popescu: ie this conflates two rather different interests.
asciilifeform: yrs ago when asciilifeform earned bread as a sort of spammer exterminator, also usually engaged manually for own amusement, rather than to any particular other end
asciilifeform: ( extermination dun usually require ~speaking~ to the roaches )
mircea_popescu: right ? suppose you found your wife through chain of events thereby started. shall i ask you %q's about wife-finding now ?
asciilifeform: no, makes sense.
mircea_popescu: for what it's worth, chet & i ran into each other on meanwhile-defunct 2d game /me briefly played while being hidden away in a bunker many years ago, to not go entirely fucking mad.
mircea_popescu: whereas hanbot & i ran into each other literally on collarme forums.
asciilifeform could prolly happily live for yr in a bunker with net pipe
mircea_popescu: yet i am convinced you can play 2d games until the end of creation not unearth me another chet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform period mp had exactly 0 theorems to prove.
asciilifeform also did not always have theorem to prove
asciilifeform: but sure.
mircea_popescu: the encounters of intelligent people always have this mocky flavour, "fuck me, i was sitting here looking for a bitcoin game now it seems i'm going to qatar ?! these people ask the wrong fucking questions!"
mircea_popescu: anyway, for citizens interested in more serious work : i shall prolly delay report making for a few days, because well, this month started with apendicitis hanbot, and i'm not going to force the very pleasant locals to set up their er/surgery hotel with my complicated red boxes.
asciilifeform wishes a speedy return to health to hanbot
mircea_popescu: she is outside danger.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877995 << it's absurdist, not even clear there's actual structure underneath the form (in the sense of "haha, you thought was structured ? idiot! kek")
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 17:13 asciilifeform: ( loox like it's 1 of those 'haha, he thinks he has courage, let him sit in gulag! see how much courage then!' sorta flames )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878002 << o hallelujah! well so then great, ty Mocky_ & everyone involved, pizarro sitting pretty for once!
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 17:21 BingoBoingo: And the datacenter just sent the statement of account showing receipt of the wires
mircea_popescu will check on balance and report confirmation also later.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 19:28 asciilifeform: i find this intolerable on any box used for anything serious whatsoever, so my c101pa is presently gathering dust
mircea_popescu: is it supposed to be a computer or a boobytrap.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my whole orig impetus for 'cure bootloader' was that nonsense
mircea_popescu: i can see why it'd be.
asciilifeform: ( then found ~other~ boobies inside.. )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 19:31 asciilifeform: spyked: it's the 1st one most folx used, given as it was the first vtron
asciilifeform: i experimented with curing an earlier chromebook, in early 2013, also
asciilifeform: broke teeth.
asciilifeform: tho i was able to get a kinda linux on it, it actually went with me to mircea_popescu's c2 as travel comp
asciilifeform: ( thought 'what comp to take that i dun mind border idjiots stealing' )
mircea_popescu: lmao. yeah, i recall this somehow.
asciilifeform: that thing is holding down a stack of papers somewhere in torture room
asciilifeform: samsung thingie, weighs 400g or so
asciilifeform: ( to enlinuxize, had to open it and put crocodiles on the eeprom . but iron was flaky, thing sometimes would wake from sleepmode with x11 mutilated , etc )
asciilifeform: i had naively installed 'archlinux' on it, and as result found out for 1st time what systemd was.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878160 << will be great once we have that scripting lang ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-21#1843516 ) so we can throw out pythons, perls, etc
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 00:17 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878020 << and also, python.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-21 18:28 asciilifeform: all i particularly care for in re scripting is to obtain a replacement for perl/python/bash where the interpreter is simple (i.e. readable, fits-in-head, auditable, correct)
mircea_popescu: yeah, wasn't mod6 's perl thing even earlier ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: v.py was my orig vtron , as preserved in amber in http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-releases-v-for-victory/
asciilifeform: mod6 wrote his (much moar feature-complete) item shortly after
asciilifeform: then , iirc, punkman ( now-defunkt greek d00d ) wrote one ; then ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: ah right you are, his was a product of "ima try to reimplement to understand this".
asciilifeform: afaik there are currently 3 working ( i.e. with keccak format ) vtrons , v.py ( as patched by phf ) , v.pl ( patched by diana_coman ) and esthlos
asciilifeform: ( there is also phf's www-displaying one, but that one isn't a system proggy or published as such )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 21:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878039 << pretty interesting, plox to post if you end up remembering where saw this orig
asciilifeform: oh hey neat
mircea_popescu: his lordship newton's signoff, which is how one ends up reading such things
asciilifeform: lol terrifyingly rotten ocr
mircea_popescu: can always go to a real library read the ph proc of the royal society.
asciilifeform: page seems to have a photo ver
a111: Logged on 2014-02-19 04:46 asciilifeform: ('russian i would learn, simply because, it was spoken by lenin')
asciilifeform: pretty interesting item, btw
asciilifeform: i had nfi these'd been scanned
mircea_popescu: well it's not a scan worth the mention. but they are far from uncommon, most (serious) uni libraries should have really.
asciilifeform: found subj, p. 72
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: my pleasure.
asciilifeform: 'AVERTISEMENT. just published. methodus incrementorum directa & inverta, auctore Brook Taylor, L.D.D., & R. S. Seer' << notbad
asciilifeform: *inversa
asciilifeform: 'An Account of what appear'd on opening the big-belly'd Woman near Haman in Shropshire, who was suppos'd to have continued many Years with Child' -- iirc we even had the thread !
asciilifeform: ru pathologists refer to subj as 'wax fetus', can't recall what it is in eng
asciilifeform: all in all ~substantially~ moar interesting read than today's academi-claptrap !
asciilifeform: fetus papyraceus btw.
asciilifeform: ( makes sense, the name, thing tends to get pounded flat and acquire a roadkill-like leathery appearance )
asciilifeform: https://ia800209.us.archive.org/0/items/philosophicaltra2917roya/philosophicaltra2917roya_bw.pdf << 35 MB (!) scanturd , but displays ok on the box i keep for the purpose
asciilifeform: ( could've just as easily been a 3MB djvu, but the derps evidently dun know that this exists )
asciilifeform: i dun expect these will ever be OCR'd, hand-typesetted-cum-diagrams newtonola is possibly a bridge too far for ocr.
asciilifeform bbl;meat
mircea_popescu enjoys the spectacle of an alf enjoying himself.
asciilifeform: and lol it was of course R. S. Secr
asciilifeform: i.e. royal soc secretary
asciilifeform: ( and not mythical sage ' r.s.seer' )
asciilifeform: ink rot ftw.
mircea_popescu: back when people abbreviated because literally lacked the ink and paper
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