Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-06-19 | 2018-06-21 → ↓
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/so-im-having-a-cup-of-coffee/ << Trilema - So I'm having a cup of coffee...
mod6: lol
mod6: srsly, folks: SPECIAL PRICES!
mircea_popescu: "YOU ARE READING Deep Web (The HIDDEN PART OF INTERNET)"
hanbot: ahahaha, it had me at nabokob
mircea_popescu: (pedophilia)
lobbes: speaking of, trinque could I get http://blog.lobbesblog.com/feed/ added to blogroll?
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826916, I don't use emacs. I've tried it on an off and after reading the logs I'm sure I do not want to get "locked in" to it.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 17:13 mircea_popescu: what's actually the usercount ? spyked ? esthlos ? ave1 ? jurov ?
ave1: I'm currently on vim again with a lot of work done on in bash.
ave1: I used to program in Smalltalk for work, was a lot of fun.
asciilifeform: potentially interesting, to n00bz, old emacs-decay thread : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455017
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:36 asciilifeform: phf: the emacs tumour (see logz, the 'flycheck' thread) is what really blew my mind
asciilifeform: !!up FundsAreSafuh
deedbot: FundsAreSafuh voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: hello ?
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: who are you, and what brings you to #trilema ?
FundsAreSafuh: the pursuit of knowledge, and an adoration for the great Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: can i presume you read the logs ?
FundsAreSafuh: I used to lurk here quite often back in the 2014-2015 days, back then I used to be mentioned on the channel for some of my BitcoinTalk antics
FundsAreSafuh: I'm back for old times sake
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: you won't win much from plain lurking, i recommend to read the logs, http://btcbase.org/log/
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: do also make use of the search box.
FundsAreSafuh: thank you
asciilifeform: not having been a reader of tardstalk, asciilifeform does not know who is FundsAreSafuh . care to introduce yourself ?
asciilifeform: e.g. 'i am a chimney sweep from calcutta, and i break nsa block ciphers in spare time' , format.
FundsAreSafuh: I made a small fortune trading Friedcat's ASICMINER shares on GLBSE, before Nefario disappeared. Now I'm a crypto nomad spending time between NYC and the Republic of Panama
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: lol, so accomplice of famous bamboozler, living off spoils ??
FundsAreSafuh: aye, cap'n
asciilifeform: gotta admit, FundsAreSafuh , i'm quite curious re what you are hoping to find here.
asciilifeform: easy chump pickings ? that's three doors down
FundsAreSafuh: I guess nostalgia brought me back, and the realization that things are never going to be the same. I'm just a former MPOE holder come back to join the ol' gang
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: which things ?
FundsAreSafuh: The thrill of buying 60 BTC, and spending it all on cannabis. The exhilaration of learning PGP for the first time. The realization that FeedZeBirds was a scam.
diana_coman: FundsAreSafuh, how do you plan to "join" exactly?
FundsAreSafuh: joining is for folks who don't belong
diana_coman: that doesn't make any sense
diana_coman: FundsAreSafuh, what do you spend your time on?
diana_coman: !!up FundsAreSafuh
deedbot: FundsAreSafuh voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: in other-same lulz, usg amping up the "upgrading" of "secure" http sites off the interwebs.
mircea_popescu: you know, "upgrade tls". various "cloud providers" "rolling out" "support"
mircea_popescu: in other news, diana_coman reports that we've actually managed moving the actual server on a .gpr process ; there's some remaining problems with linking bits, but seem perhaps resolvable.
mircea_popescu: which brings us to : ben_vulpes would pizarro be amenable to bring up the spare sometime so she makes it a full gnat musl thing, test whether we can move everything there, and either move it (so basically, moving servers) or else backing down (so basically i guess either renting both for a while or powerting back down the spare) ?
ben_vulpes: sounds reasonable, let me check notes and see if there's any reason not to
asciilifeform: s.mg spare ? should be ready to roll, disks in, etc. possibly will need FGation.
asciilifeform: i delivered also its raid card, it is currently in its crate, in the bilge.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: out of curiosity, was the initial test of adatronic serv on rockchip ? how did it perform ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, no, not on rockchip, on s.mg server but basically just setting for the session the $PATH to point to musl gnat
mircea_popescu: dun fit so well on rockchip.
diana_coman: and I'm not that keen on testing on yet another arch basically
asciilifeform: ram-heavy, isnit.
mircea_popescu: you know, engineering, that thing where you try to change the smallest count of things per step
mircea_popescu: the above + "keep clear and reproducible notes of all steps" is pretty much 100% the profession.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to gpggram BingoBoingo re necessary qty of FGs, the raid geometry to use ( 5? 10? ) , necessary # of nic connections, he will bring up the box.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, same as s.mg server really if possible
asciilifeform: iirc that one has raid10 with 1 hot spare.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: will you be installing cuntoo ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, uhm, not at this stage; can haz precisely dulap-whatevers setup s.mg came with?
diana_coman: great, thanks
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to connect ipkvm device also then
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and the usb boot stick.
mircea_popescu: none of this is an emergency, still some issues to fix as i said.
asciilifeform: it will be getting the asciilifeform-baked trad gentoo, from same tar.gz as dulap and orig s.mg.
diana_coman: sounds good
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman which linking issues ?
asciilifeform: ( eulora-particular ? or issue with ave1's gnat..? )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, eulora-particular really
diana_coman: the server is a ball of fuck that was trimmed from earth-size to country-size, but still
asciilifeform: re linkers, musl lib can only be linked with other musl libs, but prolly diana_coman already knew this.
asciilifeform: ( there may be a pill to work around this, but i do not currently know it )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, "musl libs" meaning libs built with musl, right? that's my current understanding
diana_coman: i.e. on a musl system I can rebuild everything or not?
diana_coman: or do you mean I have to have cuntoo to be able to try this?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can, with certain known exceptions ( emacs, mainly , per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1827118 thrd )
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 18:08 phf: asciilifeform: well, it's been ported, but i've no idea how, last time i looked at it was pre-rework and i couldn't figure it out. trinque just said that the musl version of emacs he has is 24.5, so presumably that works
diana_coman: I guess I'll find out by trying it at any rate
asciilifeform: just about errything that doesn't abuse some glibc-specific knob, runs 100% under muslism ( e.g. trb, which was the first proggy i personally built for musl, back in the http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000133.html days )
asciilifeform: ( well, technically 2nd, gcc was 1st )
diana_coman: so there is a chance it'll work; if not, at least I'll know what part is even more idiotic than the rest
asciilifeform: chances are that it'll work without coad changes.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you don't need cuntoo to build musl executables, ave1's gnat does this on an ~arbitrary linux. ( via similar method as the 2015 'rotor' item )
diana_coman: aha, that was my understanding so that's good then
a111: Logged on 2018-06-03 18:36 asciilifeform: ch10 ffa builds a (stripped) 320kB elf
asciilifeform: i do not presently have a cuntoo box
asciilifeform: a musl-gnat is first built, using a conventional gnat; this is then installed in user homedir, placed in path, and becomes the active gnat; with which then can build musltronic proggies.
asciilifeform: which then run on , theoretically, any linux of compatible cpu.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, aha, that's pretty much the recipe I'll try to follow
asciilifeform: i tested his latest builder on x64 and arm64, both perform like champs.
asciilifeform: ( the 1 item which did not work, is the building of x64 gnat ~on~ arm64 gnat, iirc he went to fix this and not yet come back )
diana_coman: right; I can confirm I tried that on my rockchip too with same results as you had already reported
asciilifeform: what i'd like to end up with, is to make ave1's gnat the default gcc in my gentoos ( and , in time, in cuntoo )
asciilifeform: but for this it will have to work in all possible combos of 'who-whom'
asciilifeform: when ave1 comes back with patch for cross-x64 , it will be time to genesis the thing
asciilifeform: and then can start the process of auditing, cleansing.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> diana_coman: plox to gpggram BingoBoingo re necessary qty of FGs, the raid geometry to use ( 5? 10? ) , necessary # of nic connections, he will bring up the box. << The server needs drives to set up a raid
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to make inventory of drives
asciilifeform: ( or link to existing )
asciilifeform: oh grr loox from my notes, to be the case that only the primary s.mg box was provisioned with disk
ave1: asciilifeform, I did get it to cross compile on aarch64 too, it was a question of more memory. Do you still have an error log? Also the order has to be correct in the build-ada.sh. Like so: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-04#1820499
a111: Logged on 2018-06-04 04:26 ave1: asciilifeform, also what is in the build-ada.sh? the last line on aarch64 should read: ../extra/build-tarballs.sh $PREFIX musl ada aarch64 x86_64
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to confirm this by physically looking at the iron
a111: Logged on 2018-06-03 22:27 asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/J7Aey/?raw=true << amd64 gnat dun build on arm64.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I looked at the iron on my way back to the terminal after Uruguay's disappointing 1-0 victory
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to visit ye olde iron shoppe then, and obtain quote for 5 1tb ssd, if available, or output re what is available, if these are not
ave1: Yes, that one looked like a build / host / target def problem. Which usually goes back to the build-tarballs line.
BingoBoingo: I can pull the chassis out of the cabinet and see if they drives are hiding in there somewhere other than the drive bays.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Will do.
ave1: I.E. I could reprocude this error by first compiling aarch64 with ../extra/build-tarballs.sh $PREFIX musl ada aarch64 and then running the script with making that line: ../extra/build-tarballs.sh $PREFIX musl ada x86_64
ave1: with -> while
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to correct the above disk spec if necessary
ben_vulpes: ah; that's right. box bought from s.nsa was chassis-only
ben_vulpes: chassis + ram
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: correct, and ben_vulpes , trinque , lobbes ( iirc ) send in disks , which then went into it
trinque: mhm
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu if you need this box asap, it is possible to pull the hot spare from primary and make a single-disked staging box out of the spare.
asciilifeform: iirc there is also a cold spare ssd belonging to mod6 , can work something out with him.
asciilifeform: hey ben_vulpes do we have a Troo Full Inventory posted somewhere ?
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: sent out an inventory recently, let me hand that over to ya
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I sent a signed and encrypted cabinet inventory report, can repaste
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to repaste
asciilifeform: (or link)
asciilifeform: disk shortage is serious problem imho, these will have to be an absolute priority item for next airdrop. the tricky bit is that the only reliable way to transport'em, without triggering the ruinous tax, is inside machines.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is very much worth looking into speaking with iron shoppe d00d and working out something re disks. may prove to be cheaper.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: put your sp study to use in the battlefield.
asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Will speak to people.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the samsung 850 in the bilge, confirmed is mod6 's ?
asciilifeform: mod6: ^ plox to confirm
asciilifeform: there is a 860 in bilge, marked 'tbf'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at your earliest chance, plox to install the 3ware raid and its cabling marked 'smg', in the respective machine.
ben_vulpes: yeah, that's the foundation's drive
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but whose is the 850 ?
trinque: I have the 1tb 860 evo
asciilifeform: ( in the fyootoor, folx, plz label your iron ! )
trinque: as spare
asciilifeform: ok confirmed, trinque's
trinque: and never touched my hands, so no label
trinque: the 6tb WD is also mine
asciilifeform: i'ma ask that anyffing sent to asciilifeform for transport, be either marked (if sent from human hands) or serial # gpggrammed to asciilifeform , so he can mark it.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> the 6tb WD is also mine << That was marked
asciilifeform: ( if posted from vendor direct )
trinque: aye aye
BingoBoingo will dive and confirm markings
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you got it
diana_coman: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo it is NOT asap, no; take your time, no hurry
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ApA3A/?raw=true << Correct
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: ty
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 17:04 mircea_popescu: none of this is an emergency, still some issues to fix as i said.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: ty
ben_vulpes: !!v 679E24D9E94B4273ABD3A76D7E9D4CE3099B442C14D4A41635AABFA733F662C0
deedbot: ben_vulpes paid jurov invoice 1
asciilifeform: even so, better to start the train going, so disks etc can be 'yes!! we have disks!' if suddenly a primary box goes up in smoke, rather than 'oh hmm where do we get some disks'.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-6-20#383922 << of interest to potentially all pizarro customers ; updated disk cost ( via the method used to deliver BingoBoingo the cable in earlier experiment )
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-06-20 17:59 asciilifeform: breaking noose : shitazon gives quote of 314.21 ( 237.99 disk ; 14.51 postage; 61.71 orc bakshish )
asciilifeform: i.e. any # of ssd can be in BingoBoingo's hands in about 6 wks, via this 'worst' method.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What about those retarded "max X per customer" Amazon limits?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: loox like 5 per crate
asciilifeform: is the tardlimit
asciilifeform: i just now tried the quote , it's a linear equation
asciilifeform: so still 60 of bakshish per .
asciilifeform: i.e. ~1500 to buy, transport, ransom, 5 units.
asciilifeform: observe that the cost of the disk itself has fallen by ~100bux since april; seems like the ssd famine may be ending
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the s.mg spare is inventory # 26 ( w/ redundant ps )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yeah, that's in the notes for the next signed inventory report
asciilifeform: hey ben_vulpes , didja ever send the stockpile of FG usb-ttl connectors, over to BingoBoingostan ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you haven't , pleeeez do
asciilifeform: they belong ~there~
asciilifeform: afaik he currently has ~just enuff~ to connect ~one~ pair.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: all righty
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: plox to gpggram to BingoBoingo , tracking # etc, when it has sailed
asciilifeform: so he can work the necessary magicks
ben_vulpes: will do
asciilifeform: ( let's imagine, say, the eulora folx suddenly want to connect 6 FG's. currently cannot do )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: plox to gpggram to BingoBoingo , tracking # etc, when it has sailed << Between these and the disks... mod6 interested in a trip?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 17:59 asciilifeform: i'ma ask that anyffing sent to asciilifeform for transport, be either marked (if sent from human hands) or serial # gpggrammed to asciilifeform , so he can mark it.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: ^ plox to confirm << >> <+asciilifeform> there is a 860 in bilge, marked 'tbf' << sounds like TBF has a spare 860 then. makes sense.
mod6: <+diana_coman> asciilifeform, BingoBoingo it is NOT asap, no; take your time, no hurry << barring a straight out emergency, I can't get away at the moment. About a month ago, I was trying to plan a trip around end of July; but now, that's locked out.
mod6: Again, less complete emergency. Let's see if we can source whatever parts are needed at 'ye ole iron shop', or other method, before I think about dropping everything.
mod6: *unless
mod6: diana_coman: If not ASAP, that helps, any available guidence on your time horizon for this to be racked & working is helpful.
mircea_popescu: lol this created some excitement.
mircea_popescu: mod6 if it's by july it'll be fine.
mod6: So, we need something stood up by July 1st-ish.
mircea_popescu: ideally.
mod6: Ok thanks for the time-frame there.
ben_vulpes: diana_coman: why does it need to be wholly separate machine? i think something might have flown over my head
mircea_popescu: so it's a fully ada/musl machine.
asciilifeform: full musl implies cuntoo, hence asciilifeform's initial confusion
mircea_popescu: wasn't the idea that we build it with itself and so on ?
asciilifeform: right, ave1 produced a working self-builder gnat. nobody's bolted it into a gentoo in such a way that ~everything~ gets built with it, of yet. ( this as i understand is in the cuntoo conveyor )
mircea_popescu: and so it is here : if gets away without cuntoo, will try, if not, with.
asciilifeform: earlier diana_coman requested conventional gentoo. what'll it be ?
mircea_popescu: i'm guessing this continues once she wakes.
asciilifeform: ( btw , in case it wasn't clear, static-musltronic-gcc outputs run on conventional ~and~ musltronic linux )
asciilifeform: just like in earlier rotor-trb.
asciilifeform: in principle they'll execute anywhere with 2.6+ kernel abi.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other lulz, it was my very good pleasure to see that shithead morgan freeman besieged by the idiocy come to roost that he dedicated so much of his life to helping spawn.
mircea_popescu: if he gets thrown in jail by the exact fucktards he lied and stole for, i might even go visit, to point and laugh.
mircea_popescu: !#s "comunismu" "ajuta"
mircea_popescu: theere we go.
a111: Logged on 2015-10-03 19:56 mircea_popescu: ascii_field as the verse goes, "comunismu-ntii te-ajuta, tac tac tac, si apoi te executa, pac pac pac."
asciilifeform: whossat?
mircea_popescu: ye olde moscopol.
mircea_popescu: and in other "ddr trainset" memorabilia, went by wurstspezialitäten tienda, got gal a packet of maoam
mircea_popescu: anyone recall them starburst candies ?
asciilifeform: i meant freeman
trinque: !!v 2E51F89A85C4095CB095FE2E801A02832370E0D2E40725790A4FF184307BA36F
deedbot: Invoiced ben_vulpes 0.26994957 <<
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/06/clinton-through-obama-era-family-separation-policy-ended-by-trump-executive-order/ << Qntra - Clinton Through Obama Era 'Family Separation' Policy Ended By Trump Executive Order
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: "jail-like"
BingoBoingo: ty fxd
ben_vulpes: !!v 47890E77153D97A14E0A3602032F495C70D0A52EA256BC86EA35DD4DF7DF0807
deedbot: ben_vulpes paid trinque invoice 9
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827727 << can bring up spare chassis with hot-spare for raid array on very short notice, but if you would like to cut over to this machine from your existing one o'
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 16:46 mircea_popescu: which brings us to : ben_vulpes would pizarro be amenable to bring up the spare sometime so she makes it a full gnat musl thing, test whether we can move everything there, and either move it (so basically, moving servers) or else backing down (so basically i guess either renting both for a while or powerting back down the spare) ?
ben_vulpes: i'll need until late-july to kit out the bays
mod6: jurov: just as a reminder, http://deedbot.org/bundle-526308.txt
mod6: new borsec is here! all six bottles intact this time.
mod6: ftw
phf: further kommunity conversation on reproducible builds https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/757118/f2f894279576c348/
asciilifeform: 'In the tricky middle ground of 95-96%, his position would depend on why builds were non-reproducible, as there are a few valid reasons for this to happen. In response to another question, he said that two good reasons for a non-reproducible build were packages that build inside their own virtual machine, such as Emacs, and security packages with signing keys such as secure boot. ' << lolwaaat
asciilifeform: Valid Reasons (tm)(r) didjaknow.
phf: how does that go, the hole through which the night comes
asciilifeform: btw as soon as ave1 fully pins down his gnat, 1st order of biznis is the burning out with hot irons of all timestampism and misc crapola emitted into binaries
asciilifeform: whatever of these survives elf stripping, at the very least.
asciilifeform: also didjaknow! , 'Building everything from sources that one has hand-inspected is a solution to this, but it doesn't scale. Many of us aren't qualified to spot security weaknesses...' etc
phf: oh yeah that piece is full of gems like that
asciilifeform: 'Lamb referred to a build that had been made non-reproducible by a 15-digit random number that was generated during each build and baked into the resulting binary. It turned out that it was used as an OpenID secret, which meant that everyone running a given build of the software was using the same secret key.' << genius...
asciilifeform: 'Unix doesn't specify an order in which readdir() and listdir() should return the contents of a directory, so components can get built in an unpredictable order' << this is gonna need a cure.
asciilifeform: 'build that iterates over the keys of a Perl hash will have problems, since these elements are also returned in a variable order' << perlism has gotta go.
asciilifeform: pretty sure that gprbuild does not suffer from said idiocy, but this will have to be tested.
phf: hmm
asciilifeform: !!up LordMPofTMSR
deedbot: LordMPofTMSR voiced for 30 minutes.
LordMPofTMSR: freenanigans!
asciilifeform: oh hey he's logged in from orbital capsule again
phf: typically hashtables stay stable over invocations of same code, i wonder where randomness is even coming from
asciilifeform: phf: prolly from os/bitness/etc-dependent crapolade in tree rebalancer etc
phf: oh you know what never mind, reproducible here is of course across machines and such
asciilifeform: machines, time, phase of the moon, alignment of planets, sunspots
phf: in that case though any build process that relies on hashtables will fail
asciilifeform: on hashtables implemented by opentards at any rate
asciilifeform: btw phf i nominate you as the hero who will produce msdos gnat.
phf: heh, you really want it?
asciilifeform: ( dun have to run ~on~ msdos, tho that would be pure gold; but at least crosscompile to it )
asciilifeform: a complete dos toolchain would rock unspeakably.
asciilifeform wonders what it'd take to put sbcl on dos.
phf: much hairy, unix.lisp, runtime, sbcl's new approach of doing every single bit of ffi by writing C function wrappers first
asciilifeform: i can picture.
phf: though it does run on windows..
asciilifeform: gnat also ( tho i confess, never tried )
phf: emacs still has msdos folder in tree, all the way to 26. i wonder if that still compiles, or the folder is a lie
asciilifeform: phf: i thought you had a working dos emacs..?
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, but of some significant vintage, i think it's either 21 or 22. i doubt 26 works, and i feel like i've seen "msdos no longer supported" changelog entries
deedbot: http://blog.esthlos.com/perls-before-swine/ << esthlos - Perls Before Swine
asciilifeform: esthlos: i had nfi these were ever hosted on lolcattube to begin with
asciilifeform: ( fwiw i have copy of the films , from decade+ ago , on cd )
asciilifeform: these are actually quite ancient, iirc early '80s performance given in house at hewlettpackard
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