Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-08-01 | 2017-08-03 → ↓
mircea_popescu: spark plug, will do teh job.
BingoBoingo: In other news, agricultural supremacy Phase 1 write up incoming in the next week or two.
BingoBoingo: Spoiler: Tomatoes were sparse until Fair had already started and entry deadline passed
mircea_popescu: there's always next fair.
BingoBoingo: Eh, feels like I won anyways, at this point tomatoes are ripening faster than I can eat them
BingoBoingo: And in a wide variety
mircea_popescu: hope you got a lot of garlic.
mircea_popescu: that + olive oil pretty much the only way to make tomatoes go down the throat in quantity.
mircea_popescu: and in other "omfg death by cuteness", i captured a tiny baby gecko, 2 gram's worth. he's adorbs.
BingoBoingo has been doing tomato + garlic aoli + bread = delicious
BingoBoingo: "honey delight hybrid" has been the most prolific producer so far
mircea_popescu: gotta homebake teh bread tho
BingoBoingo: Ideally, but any carb substrate will do
cazalla: good evening
shinohai: Hola cazalla !!!
cazalla: what's new shinohai, anyone die or other exciting stuff going on?
shinohai: No one has died afaik ....the best lulz continue to be printed in Qntra, as befits such things.
shinohai: How have ya been?
cazalla: pretty good, daughter turned 1 few months back, son is moving towards 4
shinohai: Time marches on! :D
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
cazalla: i read roger is giving away free btc so seemed a good time to jump back in and pay a bit more attention
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2722.02, vol: 10759.74487443 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2721.5, vol: 33415.28408887 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2719.702182, vol: 23257.02110000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2716.0, vol: 10626.6495451 | Volume-weighted last average: 2720.28727936
shinohai: Yeah if he can get his chain to move enough to enable depositing it to an exchange to dump xD
shinohai: And in other signs that the US is crumbling: http://archive.is/RSeUz
asciilifeform: in other noose!, a samsung ssd lasts about 2y in a high-traffic trb node.
asciilifeform: RIP zoolag ( until replacement comes... )
shinohai: SFYL asciilifeform
asciilifeform: it's a wear part.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-16 04:24 asciilifeform: gentlemen, please welcome zoolag.ddns.net - a therealbitcoin/stator node.
asciilifeform: so gave a solid 2y.
shinohai: I need another ssd tbh ... mats was kind enough to fund one for my node some time ago.
shinohai is very careful with his chain backups now
mod6: mornin'
shinohai: Buenas dias mod6
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587057 << thank you for the handy backup! but what's up with the busted icons?
mod6: Buenos dias!
phf: also it would be handy to mark some of the files as text/plain in nginx so that browser doesn't autodownload: ltv, lst, cl, lisp, doc
phf: morning mod6
mod6: hi phf, how goes?
phf: since we have this lisp archive and there's some lispers here, there's some nifty code in there http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/syntax/infix/0.html infix notation, http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/syntax/measures/0.html a unit system which lets you write stuff like (dim+ 1m 4mm) > 1.004m, http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/l
phf: isp/code/fun/life.cl game of life that was used as a prop in a certain anime series, and my favorite http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/fun/sunset.cl sunrise/sunset calculator.
mod6: pretty neat mirror
phf: mod6: slow start of day. i ate too much pelmeni last night before bed, so now i'm groggy and don't want to exercise. it's a vicious cycle!
mod6: That looks great, never had it myself. Looks sort of like a small pierogi.
phf: yeah, basically, but pierogi (which is polish by the way, russian "pirog" means pie) typically have complicated, vegetable heavy stuffing. cabbage, potatoes, etc. pelmeni on the other hand are specifically meat (beef, even, though i suppose you can have them with pork and chicken too)
phf: put some dill on them, maybe some sautéed mushrooms
mod6: ahh.
mod6: sounds fantastic.
phf: "Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue (fortune.com)"
phf: !!up p0nziph0ne
deedbot: p0nziph0ne voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: not sure if you want the floor, but you have it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692489 << this is actually a pretty clever move.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 11:41 shinohai: And in other signs that the US is crumbling: http://archive.is/RSeUz
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692514 <<< not only am i the sort of lazy asshole who never actually exercises, but i call the small bits of filling inside unleavened dough/potato dough that's then boiled blinyi, and i fill them with cheese, or meat, or w/e i feel like.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 15:27 phf: put some dill on them, maybe some sautéed mushrooms
mircea_popescu: to be served with either butter or sour cream.
mod6: you walk a fair amount though
mircea_popescu: this is true.
p0nziph0ne: phf: as long as coinbase has terms of use like polo does since yesterday https://github.com/usefree/poloniextermsofuse/commit/a6c548bccf6b8767505938081e0e56051a32cb24 and they will let govs participate in the theft i see no chance for coinbase customers to have success in a lawsuit
p0nziph0ne: part 25 and 29 is an interesting change
p0nziph0ne: If Poloniex is unable to return your Tokens to a third party Account for you after a period of inactivity, Poloniex may report and remit the Tokens to an applicable government agency pursuant to applicable escheatment or unclaimed property laws.
mircea_popescu: p0nziph0ne what;s your experience with class actions ?
p0nziph0ne: none, its not very common in europe
mircea_popescu: then what is " i see no chance" supposed to mean ?
mircea_popescu: you can't see, for lack of the sight organ, which is a knowledge of the field.
p0nziph0ne: as long as taxes and gains from coinbase finally get payed and the gov is happy, what is the interest to give small customer what they deserve? they will forget at the end and dont care
mircea_popescu: i quoted a coupla items off my class action feed the other day. the firehose (ie, unfiltered) easily exceeds hundreds of entries. DAILY. (they have to be published because any member of thje class can apply to court to be lead plaintiff.)
p0nziph0ne: and they (coinbase) may say we had a major system outage on that day, was unable to store the amount
mircea_popescu: but, to answer your misshapen general question, "the interest of the government" is to maintain public faith in both the functioning of the system and their ability to control it. whereas taxes are not a concern, the operation of the usg is financed by chinese credit not by domestic taxation. much like in any other banana republic, which is why greece, or argentina, or etc are so reluctant to collect their tax receipts.
ben_vulpes: phf: i honestly have no idea
ben_vulpes: iirc i pulled the whole shebang down with a wget --give-me-everything-no-seriously-recursive-too so it's a big ??? for me
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: do you walk to places in cr? or in circles around the mountaintop of solitude looking for adorable fauna
mircea_popescu: well depends. you can walk all over san jose, which is you know, about the size of rancho cucamonga or something. you can also go for a serious walk through the numerous national parks, go from cerro alto to villa mils or somthing if you're up for the trek.
mircea_popescu: but generally, a small "town" in costa rica constists of a coupla strip malls and a bunch of corrugated sheet metal shacks around them. say orotina or w/e.
mod6: Is there a Lord in this Chamber who would like to take project lead of Cuntoo? This would entail maintaining the distribution as seen fit for use by TMSR~, coordination of all tasks, and general oversight, hosting of packages/source etc? The Foundation would be willing to contribute to the cost of infrastructure for this hosting if need be.
mod6: I know I would help contribute to this project as I can, and I'm sure others will as well.
mircea_popescu: good idea.
mod6: Well, at this point, it's all up for discussion. Thought it'd be best to get this ball rolling.
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG S.NSA CUSTOMERS! all outstanding FUCKGOATS orders shipped.
shinohai: mod6: I'm interesyed in helping with Cuntoo if I can, perhaps we can discuss in greater detail in a bit.
mod6: Sure thing, shinohai.
mod6: asciilifeform: nice
asciilifeform back in biznis
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/Ybp6T << apparently... gavin also still inbiznis.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692547 << i'll do it. unless danielpbarron REALLY yearns to
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 16:46 mod6: Is there a Lord in this Chamber who would like to take project lead of Cuntoo? This would entail maintaining the distribution as seen fit for use by TMSR~, coordination of all tasks, and general oversight, hosting of packages/source etc? The Foundation would be willing to contribute to the cost of infrastructure for this hosting if need be.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: in which case i'll help him.
asciilifeform: !~later tell cazalla http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692480 << http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html is new since iirc last you were here.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 11:13 cazalla: what's new shinohai, anyone die or other exciting stuff going on?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: scatha (~markus@p508D264D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #trilema << it is rather remarkable imho how there ALWAYS has to be a connectolade-spamming dipshit at any given time
asciilifeform: one dies, another takes his place.
trinque: ftr I have several different gentoo install scripts laying about; iirc folks may have used them at various points. if that's in scope for tmsr gentoo repossession, I'm happy to contribute them, and maintain.
asciilifeform: trinque: potentially very useful
danielpbarron: i don't know that i'm qualified to take lead on such a thing, as knowledgable on the subject as i may be. And i have a bad habit of losing track of projects that i'm not super confident about
mod6: So noted.
mod6: It seems that many of us are interested in this project; feel free to contribute as you can towards asciilifeform's project goals.
mod6: I'll be doing the same. :]
asciilifeform: mod6: i'm sitting on a massive stash of vintage packages
mod6: I read that, yea. Sounds great.
asciilifeform: but not necessarily the best selection, nor oldest vintages.
asciilifeform: largely circa 2011.
asciilifeform: about 12GB worth.
mod6: Wow, alright. Yeah that's a few.
asciilifeform: 'An activist group, which claims Coinbase's decision is akin to a brokerage withholding new shares from its investors, warns it will commence a class action suit after August 15 if the company doesn't release the Bitcoin Cash. Meanwhile, an attorney named Priyanka Ghosh-Murthy told Fortune she intends to file a complaint—invoking negligence, breach of fiduciary duty, and unjust enrichment—in Florida by the end of the week.' << lo
trinque: dat "the A of B" amerilogic
asciilifeform wonders if goxes will be 'obligated' to maintain nodes for every shitfork , or only Officially-blessed ones
mod6: it's lulzy huh
mod6: it's almost like "shut up and take my money" in reverse
asciilifeform: elsewhere in heathendom, https://archive.is/CSXhd << 'Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, and YouTube (Google/Alphabet, Inc) have formed the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism and Amber Rudd is asking them to quietly drop end-to-end encryption from their products.'
asciilifeform: 'drop' lol
asciilifeform: complete with schneier in there.
trinque: god, her face. literally, "I will open my mouth as wide as you let me".
asciilifeform: meanwhile in north monkeystan, https://archive.is/jlIWY >> 'Cable giants step up piracy battle by interrogating Montreal software developer and searching his home'
asciilifeform: 'On June 9, the telecoms got an Anton Piller order, a civil search warrant that gives a plaintiff access to a defendant's home, without notice, to search for and seize relevant evidence before it can be destroyed. A Federal Court judge would later declare the Anton Piller order in this case "unlawful," but that was weeks after a group of men arrived at Lackman's door at 8 a.m. on June 12. Lackman says the group included a bailiff, t
asciilifeform: wo computer technicians, an independent counsel and a lawyer representing Bell, Rogers and Videotron.'
mod6: <+trinque> god, her face. literally, "I will open my mouth as wide as you let me". << scary huh
asciilifeform: '...Lackman's belongings still haven't been returned. Nor can he access the TVAddons website or its social media accounts, which were also seized as part of the original order. That's because Bell, Rogers and Videotron have appealed the court decision and a Federal Court of Appeal judge has ruled that until the appeal can be heard, Lackman will get nothing back.'
asciilifeform: ^ achtung pete_dushenski et al
asciilifeform: who said pinkertons went out of style.
mod6: pantsuits. pantsuits everywhere.
phf: what is that BingoBoingo says, pence in our time
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron well, depends if you're willing to commit or not ; but this has to be an afore-the-fact decision. can't be "let's see", that just causes grief.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not surprising, is it ? ~whole point of fiat corp is to keep the lawyers in yachts.
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg aha
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692585 << what the fuck ELSE could ghave been the point of all the paywall gardens. but no "i just want to use github". lazy fucktards.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 18:22 asciilifeform: elsewhere in heathendom, https://archive.is/CSXhd << 'Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, and YouTube (Google/Alphabet, Inc) have formed the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism and Amber Rudd is asking them to quietly drop end-to-end encryption from their products.'
mircea_popescu: "i'm not a filthy subhuman monkey from india, i'm following my religious rituals by feeding rats milk. problem ???"
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692523 << i think the need to exercise is a measure of non-freedom, one of those activities that only exists in relation to wage slavery. like leisure or tourism or happy hours. i was in my best shape when i didn't work, mostly fucked, climbed abandoned buildings and went for very long walks. now exercise is basically a need in order to break static friction of sedentary lifestyle. i do though believe in natsoc kind o
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 16:18 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692514 <<< not only am i the sort of lazy asshole who never actually exercises, but i call the small bits of filling inside unleavened dough/potato dough that's then boiled blinyi, and i fill them with cheese, or meat, or w/e i feel like.
phf: f way in some inherent, discipline building value of körperkultur
mircea_popescu: maybe, though i am not convinced. gout was originally the disease of the corrupt priest. there's this very specific tendency of the affluent white male to turn into a pear.
mircea_popescu: whereas i was in my best shape in my 20s also : i ate steak for breakfast, three deserts a day, i don't think i ever went to bed before ingurgigating 4k calories and i was mostly so skinny, if i laid on my back in swim trunks i could see my own dick.
mircea_popescu: at any rate, i also believe in that whole spqr-esque "korpenkultur" as you call it ; just i'm also scandalously self indulgent.
phf: well, i don't exercise to stay skinny though, i don't have problems with that. it's more like that scene from Highlander, where they run on the beach just because they are ridiculously fit and it feels good. if i don't do any of these things, i start feeling like a modern man, slow and broken.
mircea_popescu: which is highlander ?
phf: an 80s "fantasy" movie with lambert and connery
mircea_popescu: the thing with the beheadings ?
phf: yeah! i rewatched it recently on a plane ride, it's incredibly bad in the way only 80s movies can be
mircea_popescu: so i was once at a party, i dun recall teh details, but that dude, adrian whatever, was there.
asciilifeform: so bad , counter underflows, and it's... good
mircea_popescu: and all the ~OLD~ ro tv hookers were crowding him, it was fucking hysterical to watch.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, they were figuring it's gonna help their "careers", as if 200 dollar a show tv extras in intl markets have fucking careers or somethign.
phf: maybe it helps with a local carrier? "i was at this party with such and such" works on people who don't usually go to parties with such and such
mircea_popescu: adrian paul! there we go. dumbass name to boot.
mircea_popescu: phf nah.
mircea_popescu: ~only thing that can help with local carrier is if so and so "businessman" calls. otherwise...
phf: oh, yeah, the guy from the tv show. i think i might've watched it back in russia, along sliders and quantum leap and such
asciilifeform: sliders!
asciilifeform nostalgiates
mircea_popescu: tales from the crypt : the new generation or how did it go
asciilifeform: it was in the mass of us tv asciilifeform saw in '90s when he still had a tv, to suck in the language
mircea_popescu: i thought this was english.
hanbot: mod6 : supar nitpick in yer v.pl help, "Mirrors command my only be invoked by itself." /may only
mircea_popescu: in other "crowdsourcing", http://publications.newberry.org/dig/rc-transcribe/index (chicago library looking for volunteers to type old english/vernacular latin texts)
asciilifeform: in very very other lulz, asciilifeform actually got hold of a superH ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-31#1691143 see also ) dev board, sh7216. mega-disappoint : ZERO linux support for the on-board debugger. which one actually NEEDS to do anything whatsoever with the thing.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-31 17:07 asciilifeform: the sh2, which is still massively made, beats the mips micros available on open market in ability to run from external rom
asciilifeform: i can easily see why renesas is ~dead ( chip in production, but largely for existing designs )
asciilifeform: this doesn't change the fact that the only other non-internalflashed serious-horsepower chips are ARMs.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is this possible ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty easily.
mircea_popescu: but didn;'t the dorks need to use some kind of debugger to get it to boot linux anything ?
asciilifeform: apparently they flashed it in from winblowz.
mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha
mircea_popescu: no, see ?
asciilifeform: pretty common idiocy, sadly
asciilifeform: anyway this isn't half the grief : if it were just a matter of flashing, i could flash via crocodiles, applied externally. but you need the debugger to singlestep.
mircea_popescu: is it documented by the japs at least ?
asciilifeform: nowhere.
asciilifeform: also typical.
mircea_popescu: in what sense does this item exist then ?
asciilifeform: ( dark ages proprietary pre-jtag debugger, it seems, implemented in on-board fpga )
asciilifeform: it exists in everybody's 1990s game console, stereo, vcr, etc. and now also in that fpga item.
asciilifeform: the ~arch~ is documented.
asciilifeform: the shitboard ain't.
asciilifeform: ( other than a pdf where 'flip the dip switches like-so, click in winblowz like-so' )
mircea_popescu: so it's basically "this piece of flotsam i once found which for a time light up when you said boo".
asciilifeform: for clarity : asciilifeform ain't inluvv with superH. but he ~does~ search for a cpu where 1) respectable (say, even trb-capable) horse 2) no internal flash rom 3) not ARM
asciilifeform: reporting today that result of this is still empty.
mircea_popescu: unless we make an actual board for the extant superh items
asciilifeform: that was the contemplated item
mircea_popescu: in the process discovering that a) they diverge from the spec and b) in no particular or ennumerable way.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i mean make one.
asciilifeform: well yes, so asciilifeform picked up a classic devboard to investigate
mircea_popescu: and discovered in fact dev board never existed.
asciilifeform: can make board quickly. but nowhere does -- afaik! -- the full doc exist publicly.
mircea_popescu: for the chip ?
asciilifeform: for the debug extensions.
asciilifeform: which in practice are needed to do anything particularly useful.
mircea_popescu: so the arch is NOT actually documented.
mircea_popescu: alright, so problem solved. superh never existed.
asciilifeform: leaving empty box.
mircea_popescu: it seemed like it may exist ; upon examination it turns out ignis fatuus
asciilifeform: asciilifeform however habitually collects and referments the aborted foeti of items which nearly existed, to try an' grow item that exists. because no other materials available.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 14:44 asciilifeform: because unfortunately lenin was right when he wrote 'we build new world from the planks of the old shithouse we blew up, not from imported brick'
mircea_popescu: by mass, the lenin world was built out of the fat of the idiots who lived in old shithouse, wrung out through their skin pores.
asciilifeform: how else.
asciilifeform: summary : asciilifeform is looking for a 1) 32 ( or greater ) bitness cpu 2) that is able to execute code WHOLLY from external bus ( a la 1980s ), incl from rom 3) not ARM 4) in production
asciilifeform: 5) not intel
asciilifeform: if anyone has any knowledge, even thirdhand, of such a thing existing -- plz to post.
mircea_popescu: 6) documented.
asciilifeform: either documented or reversed.
mircea_popescu: how are these different ?
asciilifeform: nm not different
asciilifeform: i just dun care ~by whom~ documented.
mircea_popescu: color of bits unimportant, we're not racists.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: aha. actually saw that already this morning.
pete_dushenski: "The whole experience was horrifying," says Adam Lackman, founder of TVAddons and defendant in a copyright infringement lawsuit launched by the television giants. "It felt like the kind of thing you would have expected to have happened in the Soviet Union." << my fav quote from piece.
pete_dushenski: like, no shit dude, wtf kinda revelation is this. another quiet #t reader, apparently.
mircea_popescu: he's exactly right, at that. precisely the sort of thing that happenbs in soviet unions.\
pete_dushenski: the difference being, pravda didn't used to publish post-interrogation bitching by defendent. now... does.
mircea_popescu: i don't see this in pravda.
mircea_popescu: i see it in the same samizdat as always.
pete_dushenski: cbc = canadian pravda
pete_dushenski: it's official mouthpiece of Truth
mircea_popescu: ah is it ?
mircea_popescu: do you have stand your ground laws in canada ?
pete_dushenski: "coming soon" (tm)
asciilifeform: iirc they have the opposite
mircea_popescu: im unfamiliar.
pete_dushenski: but currently only law is koombaya motherfucker
asciilifeform: briefly revisiting the cpu thing, incidentally i forgot a 7) not ppc
asciilifeform: ( and no sole-source garbage period. )
asciilifeform: which i'm quite confident leaves : the empty set.
pete_dushenski: west will split off in my lifetime, probably into two pieces. prairies will have stand your ground, west coast will have "he's entitled to his opinion"
mircea_popescu: powerpc was an intel tyhing i thought
asciilifeform: they still sell it, even.
asciilifeform: sparc fit all of the wish list conditions ( incl. being multi source ) when it was alive. today afaik dead.
pete_dushenski: !~ later tell BingoBoingo working on blackzilla-infant photo. in the meantime, please enjoy these other lawnmower solutions http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/mobility-scooters-comparison-test-whill-vs-pride-vs-golden-tech-comparison-test
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: major objective of the usg.oracle acquisition, was to nuke it.
mircea_popescu: as per google : "SPARC is a global coalition committed to making Open the default for research and education." and Sparc - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparc Sparc is an exclusive import distributor for the Philippine market.
mircea_popescu: so indeed, nuked very well. they even invented "other things" to be it instead of it.
mircea_popescu: also a school of performing arts in community whatever.
asciilifeform: probably 9000 things
asciilifeform: at any rate the published opensparc fpga thing actually worx
mircea_popescu: yep! and all the same things, too. "community", there;'s also a "sparc-climate science".
asciilifeform: it's what the ru elbrus folx ripped off for elbrus.
asciilifeform: and the ones in cn also iirc.
mircea_popescu: for my own curiosity, what's the state of the art re "MINIMAL cpu design" ? ie, the theory of how many instructions mustg be in a set and why and per-instruction justification and everything ?
mircea_popescu: you know, the basis of design and documentation.
asciilifeform: this is actually asciilifeform's primary interest re subj
mircea_popescu: im not exactly shocked.
asciilifeform: and answer very very depends on what is required in terms of horse
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform design does not proceed towards requirement.
mircea_popescu: design proceeds from available.
asciilifeform: upstack -- you can do a great deal with 1 instruction.
asciilifeform: ( as in, 'oisc' )
asciilifeform: there are several known schemes for this.
mircea_popescu: car gets internal combustion engine NOT because "the needs of the buyer", but because it needs a power plant and that's the better powerplant available. the needs oif the buyer are welcome to adapt.
mircea_popescu: that's the design flow. automobile, therefore powerplant, therefore ice.
asciilifeform: the basic tradeoff is, the fewer the moving parts in cpu, the more constrained is the horse by the switching elements' speed.
asciilifeform: ( consider, elementarily, pipeline vs. none , for instance. )
asciilifeform: or the cost of not having a barrel shifter.
asciilifeform: or a multer. etc
asciilifeform: ( or, on the extreme end of things, not having arithmetic other than add-one. as scheme chip did. )
mircea_popescu: but the decision of whether to have or not have barrel shifter is strictly carried on the cost of it.
mircea_popescu: (what is the total cost of this item ? what percentage of that is this new addition ? what is the output of this item ? what percentage of that would the new addition produce ? make these two rations equal, you're done adding parts.)
asciilifeform: correct. but the answers to these depend SEVERELY on the substrate. for instance, if your thing lives in a fpga, not filling it up doesn't make it cycle any faster. so you want to actually use the available gates, if they can be used productively
asciilifeform: ditto for a die made with particular process -- empty space doesn't get your money back
mircea_popescu: so the cost will be 0, this is correct.
asciilifeform: ( it can lower thermal output, so still makes sense sometimes to have empty. )
mircea_popescu: the design of any general purpose item is above, there's no exceptions.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so the cost will be epsilon, 0 from real estate and epsilon from heat.
asciilifeform: one other gotcha: complexity has a cost.
mircea_popescu: definitely.
mircea_popescu: this is not a gotcha.
asciilifeform: it apparently is a surprise to some people.
asciilifeform: ( largely because they historically were able to externalize the cost. )
mircea_popescu: the usg not holding up to its side of any bargain it ever made -- also surprise. to some people.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftr, the "register window" spark thing seems the height of idiocy, but what do i know.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was a pretty ordinary thing in '80s
mircea_popescu: leaving aside how "our idea of scalable is to define a number up to 32 and then you can go from 3 to 32 and this is now scaling" hurr.
asciilifeform not aficionado of sparc specifically. it's a complexityhog.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can't have infinitely elastic registers. there's N bits , physically.
asciilifeform: the word is this-wide.
mircea_popescu: you can not call your spec "scalable" while it has magic numbers in it.
mircea_popescu: this is a fact.
mircea_popescu: magic numbers === friable.
asciilifeform: physical objects all contain immutable 'magic numbers'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at issue is the count of "registger windows" that can be implemented.
mircea_popescu: not the register width.
asciilifeform: the index into these is a register. having some immutable width.
asciilifeform: the thing being indexed, gets populated ( or not ) exactly like, e.g., ipv4, or the holes in your pci bus, etc
mircea_popescu: they did this dumb shit whereby passing was done by shared registers ; every process or w/e could see 8 proper and 8 shared or such.
mircea_popescu: the number of such "register views" aka windows was a per-processor thing
mircea_popescu: and the sparc designers imagined allowing this to be between x or y counts as "Scalable"
asciilifeform: and yes it's ridiculous . but they forced themselves into it by having the window thing at all, is the idea.
mircea_popescu: ie, if you implement 32 register views you're then making a server cpu whereas if you implement 3 you're thereby making an embeddable cpu
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is true, but the fucking correct solution was to take the bs off not to "fix it". aaanyway
asciilifeform: i mention sparc as a historic item, it is afaik no longer possible to source it.
mircea_popescu: i don't think it was ever any good.
asciilifeform: ( other than by baking into fpga. which 1) introduces the 'which fpga, again' problem 2) if you have fpga, big enough for sparc, you can make up a SANE arch to go in it
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's that thing amateur rocketry kids dfick with, what was it
mircea_popescu: the raspberri before the raspberri
mircea_popescu: gimme a sec
asciilifeform: fpga only
mircea_popescu: 32 bit thing, has source, vdhl etc.
asciilifeform: never existed as an actual physical chip.
asciilifeform: there's NO shortage of these.
asciilifeform: i have own, even.
asciilifeform: what i was looking for, is actual physical off-the-shelf cpu.
asciilifeform: ( that doesn't rely on closed xilinx 20GB turdchain to fill, doesn't contain a flash rom, doesn't double as a frying pan )
mircea_popescu: dual-core leon3-ft processor, 200mips, 200mflops.
asciilifeform: looks like golden toilet asicization exists (existed) ?
asciilifeform: unsurprise
asciilifeform: but go and buy.
mircea_popescu: they're all asics, in the metal layer sense used in bitcoin mining. they deliver.
asciilifeform: yes. but not on open market, is the point.
mircea_popescu: as in buy on amazon ?
asciilifeform: as in buy at digikey or other mainstream supply house .
mircea_popescu: aha. neah, they sell like NSA sells FG.
asciilifeform: ( and if i were producing $box by the million, i wouldn't deal with these derps and use their weird arch, but have my own asiced. )
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 20:04 mircea_popescu: for my own curiosity, what's the state of the art re "MINIMAL cpu design" ? ie, the theory of how many instructions mustg be in a set and why and per-instruction justification and everything ?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 19:42 asciilifeform: in fact, here's a new (afaik) scheme for tta. an instruction is THREE addresses, X, Y, Z. and it performs Z := X xor Y.
mircea_popescu: to revisit a very ancient mp wonderment since his less-interested days ( http://trilema.com/2010/curiozitate-calculatoristica/ ) : why not ada-on-a-chip ?
asciilifeform: what would that mean
pete_dushenski: in other "we didn't mean to phork ITWASAJOKE", http://archive.is/JGbb0
asciilifeform: ( if mircea_popescu meant a chip-that-checks-bounds. which existed at various points, e.g. symbolics lineup supported ada natively just as well as lisps . )
mircea_popescu: no. i mean chip whose instructyion set is ada.
asciilifeform: lol, as in basic interpreter, actually moving the fucking humanreadable strings around ?
mircea_popescu: not necessarily.
mircea_popescu: as in language-on-a-chip, no interpreter no compiler no linker no assembler.
mircea_popescu: native code, is ada.
asciilifeform: that'd mean 'shuffling the human strings' necessarily.
mircea_popescu: so i guess -- like old lispm
asciilifeform: which come in variable widths.
asciilifeform: the lispm was pointedly NEVER anything of the kind.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ince when the fuck ? use whatever glyphs you want for the opcodes.
asciilifeform: huamnreadables come in variablewidths, so this doesn't work in physical reality.
mircea_popescu: humanreadable face on code is a GLYPH. the code is actually code.
asciilifeform: in the end when you try an' make this, you end up with essentially the bolix chip.
mircea_popescu: you currentyly know 0f is pop and 0f a9 is pop gs and so on.
mircea_popescu: for the same money you could know 0f is if or whatever the fuck, ada instruction.
asciilifeform: the addresses are where you diverge from humanreadablelang.
asciilifeform: not the instructions.
mircea_popescu: but i only asked for ada chip in sense of, cpu instruction set == ada language.
asciilifeform: ada is interesting because 1) all array accesses bounds checked. you CAN hardwarize this. but also 2) whole program is forced to conform to strict rules, said conformance can only be evaluated during compilation, and strictly when taken as whole
asciilifeform: you can't hardwarize 2.
mircea_popescu: but you can in fact make the cpu run the same instruction set as the language allows ?
asciilifeform cannot rightfully apprehend the confusion that leads to this question.
asciilifeform: possibly mircea_popescu had read my http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46 piece. but in re lisps, there are specific operations that are missing from extant hardware : gc/cons, and boundscheckedarrayaccess. these are clumsily implemented in software.
mircea_popescu: ok, let's approach it this way : is the point of a "high level language" strictly to clothe cpu instruction set in glyphs people like, or is there an actual substantive function to it beyond ux ?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692636 << neal stephenson at some point raised half a million dollars on kickstarter to write a realistic computer simulation/game for sword fighting. his target audience/groupies/support staff look remarkably similar to the people from the photo in this articles, including the one lady in renfair getup.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 19:22 mircea_popescu: http://www.laweekly.com/arts/the-highlander-taught-me-how-to-sword-fight-7558697 << actually apparently they have the same dumbass on the west coast, too. http://archive.razorcake.org/site/spaw/uploads/files/Liz_O_b.jpg
mircea_popescu: (in other lulz nobody likely cares about, * Topic for #bolix is: *** IBM PCjr collectors club )
mircea_popescu: phf supposedly this was for some charity with kidsd and shit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's a substantive function, in transistor-poor era , to break down high level lang into the type of ops realistically fittable into silicon
asciilifeform: ops like 'move these 64 bits from this-here-place to that-there-place' etc
mircea_popescu: my hidden implication being that the traditional reasons to have the cleave are no longer sound.
asciilifeform: that was the contention of my piece ( linked above )
mircea_popescu: so then why confusion of ideas ?
asciilifeform: but it was written from specific pov of lispm aficionado gripe -- where's my boundschecked dereference and hardware gc.
asciilifeform: from ada pov only the former is relevant.
asciilifeform: but in neither case does the instr set 'fully correspond to the language'. in the case of ada in particular, there is a useful thing that happens ~where whole program~ is examined.
trinque: "Your writing sounds like a rant of a person more crazy than I am." - Terry Davis << wahahahaha
trinque: that's a true honor, right there.
asciilifeform: trinque: hey, d00d is 'sane' enough that he offloads his insanity to a shannonizer. weakling!11
mircea_popescu: trinque sauce ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from commentz in my www, linked item
mircea_popescu: a. lol. wd!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know a fellow tr0n/trinitr0n ?
asciilifeform: dun think so
asciilifeform: ...why?
mircea_popescu: discussion in... #bolix
asciilifeform: i'll confess, i never had a pc-jr.
asciilifeform: 1980s rubbish micro.
asciilifeform: ( was a cheapened version of ibmpc, circa '84 iirc )
mircea_popescu: aha. friend had one.
asciilifeform: i dun think i ever had an 8086 without 640k
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform phf http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SYECU/?raw=true bolix discussion (they dun wanna have it public). including first ever instance of a "who the fuck are you" handshake working out.
pa1atine: hello
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still have nfi which d00d it is, who claimed to know me
mircea_popescu: it's all in there.
mircea_popescu: but -- everyone knows you. get used to it.
asciilifeform: so far sad folx, referring to loongson as if it existed
asciilifeform: and even to 'mill' ( a gavinization of a poor reading of asciilifeform's unbuilt arch )
mircea_popescu: i was rather positively impressed.
asciilifeform: it isn't the typical pit of screaming imbeciles, tru
mircea_popescu: anyway, to a certain (EXTREMELY FUCKING LARGE) degree, people being weary of redditatds one day popping in is entirely understandable to me.
asciilifeform: the 'please dun log us' bit is lulzy considering fleanode.
asciilifeform: it == 'only nsa log us plox'
mircea_popescu: ya well.
asciilifeform: lol looks like a bolixwhisperer
phf: :)
asciilifeform: why not ask him why he didn't bittorrent WHOLE MOTHERFUCKING STASH
asciilifeform: lemme guess, 'reasons'
asciilifeform: d00d ain't an archaeologist, he's a grave robber.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im a guest there, what. am i going to go around visiting people and organising their harems ?
asciilifeform: sitting on stash and inflating own sense of significance by 'keeping seekrits'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fair
asciilifeform: rhetorical 'ask'im'
mircea_popescu: i did ask as far as i judge polite.
asciilifeform: gridcompass was neato btw
asciilifeform: i've been trying to buy one for ages.
asciilifeform: ( 1st lappy in any useful sense of the word. powered -- and afaik still does - american and french 'nuke football', among other applications. )
phf: i know trinitr0n personally, and i also spent time on #bolix a year or so ago, but snr went down, and now it's mostly tr0n's personal shit talking place, so i just communicate with a handful of people from that channel who i think are useful by other means
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i read to the end and still have nfi who these folx are. i suspect we have ( charitably ) case of mistaken identity.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is unable to map the fella in the snippet to anyone he ever met in meatspace or corresponded with.
phf: we also talked a few times about him emailing asciilifeform about symbolics hardware, either with a dismissive reply or no reply at all.
mircea_popescu: wait, you sat there watching alf bitchslap random guy and shaking your head ? lol
asciilifeform: phf: y'know if you suspected the mail ain't getting through -- could have asked.
asciilifeform: it ain't any kind of mystery how to contact asciilifeform , or where
phf: that was before i knew either tr0n or probably even asciilifeform for that matter. ascii's been posting bolix stuff for a while now, and i'm not particularly keen on mediating this relationship.
mircea_popescu: phf's nightmare fuel, high octane : being alf's personal secretary in an alt-soviet ww2 wherein alf is zhukov.
phf: perhaps if it was my only thing to do, but i would still probably find myself staring down a barrel of a nagant at some point
mircea_popescu: hey, as per regulations that's what you have to do anyway as part of cleaning them
mircea_popescu: anyway. so far i've not discovered a discrete way to help teh good folk.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the strong claim was that he was the guy that finally fitted disk to symbolics.
mircea_popescu: phf do you also know who the quails fellow is ? someone or just local beck ?
phf: the later, in fact that little snippet of quails piping in reminded my why i don't spend time on bolix.
mircea_popescu: well, i guess see if ian wants to reg a pgp key, i'd rate him. if nothing else, on the strength of
mircea_popescu: seattle guy.
asciilifeform: never met
asciilifeform: never afaik wrote.
mircea_popescu: i believe.
asciilifeform: looks to be connected with the 'lispm engineer' derp even
mircea_popescu: the fate of fame is that more people will have an oppinion of you than you ever met.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: No matches found.
asciilifeform: !~google site:http://www.loper-os.org tr1nitr0n
jhvh1: asciilifeform: No matches found.
asciilifeform: yeah didnt think so , not there either.
asciilifeform: ( was thinking -- comment d00d ? )
asciilifeform: 'A break from my usual exotic, esoteric, rare and high-end vintage computers- I built a 486DX2 66mhz DOS shitbox for reliving my childhood.' ( from his twatter ) << lulzily, i did this recently..
mircea_popescu: "attache -- the compact computer for the professional". back when computer guy had to go around with toolbox the size of plumber's.
asciilifeform: was 1st porta-comp that wasn't 'oscilloscope' shaped
mircea_popescu: nah, that large thing with the keyboard unwrapping off the top.
asciilifeform: ah that's called 'luggable'
asciilifeform: i.e. 'oscilloscope shaped'
asciilifeform: aka 'herniators'
mircea_popescu: "Comments: Interested in finding the value of a like new Otrona Attache. all accessories (including carry case)and documentation and software with it. Used only once to wright a college paper."
mircea_popescu: marriage-college plan worked irl.
asciilifeform: at least not to... right a collegepaper
asciilifeform: or to rite.
mircea_popescu: dali was a drawtsriteman.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes any chance you check out this "people's comp museum" next seattle trip ?
asciilifeform: d00d's twatter full of liberasty of various sorts
mircea_popescu: i'm sure.
mircea_popescu: in other news : all the chicks in cairo wore the cairo chick dress, and every chick here is wearing jeans. permanently. dressing up = different top, same jeans.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: sure
mircea_popescu: cool deal
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp9NHNKTV-M << from d00d's links: circa 1993 film of mit ai lab 9th floor, walkaround. possibly interesting to phf et al.
asciilifeform: at 1"04' pile of bolix, connectionmachine, etc
phf: yeah, that's a beautiful video
asciilifeform: betcha there ain't a single nonx86 comp ( or nonx86 brain!11 ) in that bldg right nao
phf: not even just because of bolix, but the overall "there's working being done here" feel
asciilifeform: if it even still stands.
asciilifeform: the 1/8th scale (!!) chopper alone, tells tale
mircea_popescu: looks ~same as the cluj itc, cca 1985
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: each of those fat squat boxes is a 3650 and was something like 200k usd ( 1980s usd )
mircea_popescu: i believe. to my eye that's not apparent, just, you know, "Whatever boxes they use"
asciilifeform: that's the detail that makes asciilifeform's jaw drop tho.
asciilifeform: other than that : looks like 'ordinary' uni lab
mircea_popescu: so... two dozen 1/4mn boxes, what of it ? ordinary print shop
mircea_popescu: actually the ancient web presses were coupla mil a pop.
asciilifeform: the interesting bit is not the golden toilet aspect, but that mit bought up a good % of the whole run
asciilifeform: ( there were maybe a 1000 made, iirc )
asciilifeform: 9"0' : 'whatcha up to?' 'making some retinal implants...' 'didja solve the glue problem' 'yea we solved the glue problem..'
mircea_popescu: o ? i wasn't aware that was solved even.
mircea_popescu: afaik retinal implants still in spreading-works stage
asciilifeform: afaik yea
mircea_popescu: major problem is that few people lose vision through retinal failure in a way that produces total blindness.
asciilifeform: mostly laser victims
mircea_popescu: the way it usually works is that they lose focus vision but retain lateral vision (this is how chet's eyes work). this then can through intensive training be taken to the point where you can actually write code. whereas surgery to implant a) doesn't yield very good focus vision and b)c threatens complete destruction of peripheral remnants.
asciilifeform: and little else
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform retinal driven blindness is usually circulatory/vascular in nature.
asciilifeform: (b) is a recurring boojum in prosthetics as a whole
asciilifeform: from same twatter, lulz, 'jwz: DNA Lounge update, wherein DNA Lounge will be closed soon, without your help.'
asciilifeform: i had nfi!
mircea_popescu: what is that ?
asciilifeform looks at derp's www, finds that it still alive, but begging for donations
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the original jwz
asciilifeform: he ran a restaurant/club thing
mircea_popescu: oh the guy made a bar right
asciilifeform: now begs
mircea_popescu: yua ya. shoulda put naked sluts on the stage.
asciilifeform: 'just wanted!'
phf: i think if he stuck to the original "cyberia" vision from The Hackers instead of leaning towards the whole san francisco cyber goth thing, but then you can't really bring new york cool to san francisco anyway
asciilifeform: phf: i dunno how to parse this
phf: or what was it, cyberdelia
mircea_popescu: phf he tried and failed from hwat i hear. though i hear via actual bar people, as opposed to itards, and it's mixed in "shithead has nfi how to run a bar" expletives.
asciilifeform: ' RoHS = Restrictions on Hand Soldering ' ( good one. and true : as described in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1871 , shit dun melt worth shit with any available iron )
phf: well, how do they have it with the restauranteurs: you have the guy who designs the concept and then you have the day manager who actually runs the place
mircea_popescu: i am not aware of a successful restaurant that was built as you describe. you have a) the funes style restaurants, owned and operated by an actual expert chef. these are 50-50 for roi. b) the "prestige" restaurants of very large hotel conglomerates. these always lose money and are the mud from which a sprouts and in which a goes to die. and then you have the roadside diners. and then d) you have the franchises.
mircea_popescu: were you talking d ?>
asciilifeform: ( linked from subj )
asciilifeform: rembrandting the poor old junkers
phf: mircea_popescu: i'm thinking stephen starr
mircea_popescu: in my mind that's a.
asciilifeform: 'selling even one of these in today’s market would recoup the cost of everything we purchased, the van rental & gas between here and boston, the cost of freighting hundreds and hundreds of pounds of equipment from new york to washington state with enough left over to purchase a brand new macbook'
mircea_popescu: or did he do the whole tv franchise bs and left coucou ?
mircea_popescu: a yeah, check that out, franchised. sad. i've not seen the books but i'll bet you the conglomerate lost money q1 2017.
phf: i'm pretty sure starr himself is not a cook, but apparently the whole starr restaurant is not his first venture, he started as a large-scale stadium concert organizer (? i'm not sure what to call that role), so who knows how much cash he put into his restaurant venture
mircea_popescu: i suppose the situation is tight coupling between businessman and chef, which meanwhile disolved. i still count it as an a, except the funes item came in thje shape of starr/rose binome.
phf: right
phf: well, right, this is not any kind of area of jwz
phf: err
phf: jwz's expertise
mircea_popescu: anyway, the idea was, restaurants don't work like apple stores, there's a "concept store" etc. they work more like music acts i guess.
mircea_popescu: but yeah, starr had a cabaret when he was a kid, just like you. fucked cindi lauper into womanhood and so on.
asciilifeform: it is hilarious, all of these d00dz know one another
asciilifeform: have own whispererwot
asciilifeform: and studiously avoided ever writing to asciilifeform , though will claim to have, and even to have met him in meat ( i know quite well that i have met none, and never saw any such mail )
asciilifeform: i will illustrate my comment 'they are grave robbers, not archaeologists'. take, for instance, https://www.instagram.com/p/BUXulHRgjEZ/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n ( it dun show on archive.is, i have nfi why . ) pictured is derp buys 4 (! and where?!) smbx ivory cpu
asciilifeform: and who knows how many idiots like this, for how many years, and guess what, NOT ONE electron micrograph published
asciilifeform: NOT ONE fully working emulator
asciilifeform: NOT ONE even full instruction set doc.
asciilifeform: but 'black archaeology' imbecile gets to feel warm an' speshul.
asciilifeform: and rembrandts them on, to next idiot, for 100x price, 'to the moon!'
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 03:17 asciilifeform: it is almost as if they did not want their 3-10k $ investments to turn into the equivalent of old nintendo.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 03:26 asciilifeform: the 'collectors', in my experience, have been the farthest possible thing from a help -- quite a hindrance, in fact.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other lulz : i just brokered a deal whereby we could in principle get candi to run off vintage iron, as a hosting deal :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neato - what kind ?
asciilifeform: thing eats maybe a full kW/hr
asciilifeform: so promises to be expensive hoster.
asciilifeform: but not impossible in principle
mircea_popescu: hey, actual lisp machine
asciilifeform: iirc phf has a working 400
asciilifeform: it ain't terribly useful as a headless deployment thing, tho, really shines as dev tool
asciilifeform: ( no lispm ever built in the classical period had anything like the address space to make it bitcoin-capable, for instance )
mircea_popescu: i'm not sure there's much limitation on usage.
asciilifeform: even 200msec of lag makes x11 pipe pretty useless in practice in asciilifeform's experience
mircea_popescu: understand : the neurotic chick that's fucked regular, unbecomes neurotic. the sane chick not fucked, becomes.
phf: it is possibly because 3600 series is a hog. xl1201 is snappy, i got it to render a jpeg over the wire for example, all the hacking was done on machine over x11
mircea_popescu: usage creates organs. nothing else.
asciilifeform: phf: yes but over x11 in your house, not over half a planet
phf: ah
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: know also, these weren't in any sense whatsoever multiuser.
asciilifeform: whoever has the console, has full r/w to whole box
mircea_popescu: as opposed to what.
asciilifeform: as opposed to unix etc abstraction
asciilifeform: there was no pretense of isolation in lispm.
mircea_popescu: i've yet to buy a multiuser box.
asciilifeform: and d00d himself points out re low mtbf. which is sadly tru for ancient box for which ~no replacement parts exist.
asciilifeform: ( is why the rembrandtists buy'em by the dozen, $100,000's worth )
asciilifeform: collectors, in my experience, are wholly http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631728 .
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 15:17 mircea_popescu: and this in the best case, a good half simply buy them to deny it to memory strokers in the hope of geting more $$$ later.
mircea_popescu: the point however, is that if this gets going he'll be (justly) motivated to do more work, replacement wise on them etc.
mircea_popescu: the more you pull on the nipples, the bigger the tits grow.
asciilifeform: we're talking about a nonrenewable resource.
asciilifeform: that's already largely spent.
mircea_popescu: not so. the "replace hdd" item is proof of this.
asciilifeform: the hdd is the easy bit.
asciilifeform: go an' replace the 'ivory'.
mircea_popescu: is the easy bit because it was done.
mircea_popescu: there's a very strictly defined ingredient which distinguishes the cargo cult scavenger worlds from the renaissance scavenger worlds.
asciilifeform: not a single 1 of these folx show any symptom whatsoever of having a microscopic part of the most elementary clue re what is involved.
mircea_popescu: the latter pull on the tits. the former do not.
mircea_popescu: 1500 italy was, just as much as 1960 pacifgic islands, a scavenger culture.
asciilifeform: quite mistaken comparison. classical texts were copyable with bare hands.
asciilifeform: unlike silicon.
mircea_popescu: they werre not, no.
mircea_popescu: "bare hands" at the time meant low control high force "i can move rocks hehe".
mircea_popescu: classical text were copyable by hands of higher capital value than today's silicon copier.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is as always quite eager to lowball the market value of anyone not himself
mircea_popescu: it is a matter of fact, though. a monk was fucking expensive. more so than the modern item in question.
asciilifeform: on my planet , it is ~impossible to hire even ordinary winblowz reversing for anything like sane moneys.
mircea_popescu: no argument on that end.
asciilifeform: also i'll note, there are 2 types of copy, the basic 'soviet' type ( where you life everything incl. dec's 'when you care enough to steal the very best' easter egg inscription ) and the kind where you actually get the ~concept~ out
mircea_popescu: the copy under discussion spanned that gamut.
asciilifeform: the former is helpful in propagating the artifact where it may eventually fall into the hands of the latter
asciilifeform: but strictly that.
mircea_popescu: half the time even copied random strings in.
asciilifeform: this yea
mircea_popescu: but, understand : copying monk cca 1490 was worth, in adjusted terms, more than the current 747 jet trump bought.
asciilifeform: dunno that the market reflected this notion
mircea_popescu: there is a moment in frank history when this third brother raised up in rebellion because his father disinherited him. and he had... no artefacts. this was a huge fucking deal, they had not a single book to know how to organize the state/church.
mircea_popescu: so yea, the market reflected.
mircea_popescu: in the simplest of terms, no afghan goes "we must make peace with trump because he bought himself a jet". at the time, this literally happened, "we can not be at war with these people they have books".
asciilifeform: the turks somehow did just fine 'organizing church and state' without them bookz
mircea_popescu: except not at all without. i personally sat on the steps of oldest university in europe -- in istanbul. 1200s
asciilifeform: i meant the specific ones denied to the rebelling son. ( rather than 'any' )
asciilifeform: turks had own 'second source'.
mircea_popescu: this is not very clear. turks captured cairo because htey held constantinople.
mircea_popescu: this is not happenstance. cairo fell in 1517 BECAUSE constantinople had fallen, and for no other reason.
mircea_popescu: before that, it was "who the fuck are these anons" all the way.
asciilifeform: i thought constantinopol was 'all pasture inside' at that point..?
mircea_popescu: just like symbolics is, neh ?
asciilifeform: liek bolix after the whisperers are done burning through the last ivory's mtbf yea
mircea_popescu: constantinople wasn't so important militarily ; but certainly in the copying monk sense here discussed. even after the venetians sacked it, it still had shit.
asciilifeform: ( collectors, i say, are to bolix as phylloxera is to wine. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if this was so ( and iirc it was how u. eco painted it , and for some reason i balked ) then yes
mircea_popescu: nobody knows how things were as a matter of fact ; but the notion has plenty of skin on its bones.
asciilifeform: ( imho hard to picture how the 'still had shit' could sit there yet- unpilfered by that point )
mircea_popescu: you have to understand what it is to steal it.
mircea_popescu: women, books, what have you.
asciilifeform: now THIS is very much a thing
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692922 << i let this slip by somehow. afaik this is STILL unsolved in the open lit. ( 'this' being 'fpga glue for ssd replacement of st506 drive' )
a111: Logged on 2017-08-02 21:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the strong claim was that he was the guy that finally fitted disk to symbolics.
mircea_popescu: anyway. it was a big deal enough for qayser-i rhim to be a thing.
asciilifeform: ( and that was the EASIEST bit. the console protocol, for instance, is still undocumented; and last time asciilifeform gave a shit, he did not - and still does not - have test equipment fast enough to sample the 200+MHz analogue waveform accurately )
mod6: <+hanbot> mod6 : coupla more typos, if you care, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/jdZ6j/?raw=true << good finds, thanks for reading & reporting!
mod6: <+hanbot> mod6 : supar nitpick in yer v.pl help, "Mirrors command my only be invoked by itself." /may only << this too, salud.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "Uber’s lawyer: What is the patent that is left in the case, as you understand it? Page: I have no idea." (from google-uber suit, via #bolix).
mod6: <+asciilifeform> aka 'herniators' << lol
asciilifeform: lol asciilifeform kicked from #bolix, without even saying word
asciilifeform goes to see why
asciilifeform: remains mystery.
asciilifeform: lol i think we did this one!
mod6: niiice
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-03#1693130 << poor buggerz, chinese hotel must've unplugged..
a111: Logged on 2017-08-03 01:08 shinohai: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-bcc.html <<< kek
mod6: Remy Le Croix in that gif
mircea_popescu: mod6 aha
mircea_popescu: shorther than a duck's knee.
mod6: hehe
mod6: hottie
mircea_popescu: talented fo sho
BingoBoingo: !~ later tell cazalla Oh hai thur
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: phf ^ is he one of yours ?
mircea_popescu: is bolix very slow at rsa ?
asciilifeform: not particularly
asciilifeform: i'd estimate roughly 386 equiv
mircea_popescu: lulz from the dood suggesting "in between server", http://eschatologist.net/blog/ : ""Italian author Umberto Eco defined “Ur-Fascism” in an article in the New York Review of Books in June, 1995. It can be distilled into fourteen points. It’s worth taking a look at these to see just what our society is dealing with when it comes to “alt-right” Neo-Nazis and the ideology they promote.
mircea_popescu: somehow herdemocracy pantsuits very visible among the lisp crowd.
asciilifeform: very very visible
asciilifeform: tho it ain't so much 'lisp crowd' as much as californirasts.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
asciilifeform: aka 'bay aryans'
mircea_popescu: anyway, rather lulzy nonsense. "because it rejects the decay started with the age of pantsuit, it therefore is irrationalist". because totally, the french communists invented thinking.
mircea_popescu: perhaps also invented fucking and drinking water.
asciilifeform: 'The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”' lol!!
mircea_popescu: which is a subtle shift from what mp actually says on the topic. primo strawman.
asciilifeform: predictable shift.
asciilifeform: ( on all 14 )
mircea_popescu: well yes.
asciilifeform: where was that trilema...
asciilifeform: !#s sanity dogma
mircea_popescu: of course, #14 becomes problematic seeing how the general pantsuit objection is "too complex".
asciilifeform: 'Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”' didjaknow!
mircea_popescu attempted to leave comment ("You're not very smart, are you. You'd like to be, obviously. But that's not the same thing."). on every attempt, a different field is supposedly not filled.
mircea_popescu: and then eventually, "internal error or misconfiguration"
mircea_popescu: why do i even bother with all the nitwits.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re rsa, i'm looking forward to msdos ffa test.
asciilifeform: ( afaik there is not a 16bit gnat/djgpp. but 32bit with prot.mode extender oughta work ok )
asciilifeform: dos box cum laser is still imho 'state of art' re airgaptrons.
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