Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-07-10 | 2017-07-12 → ↓
mod6: now that i've got that part in my head, now can tackle the rest tomorrow.
mod6: damn, i wanna be on whatever deck she's on.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/credibility-of-us-universities-falling-as-desire-for-great-again-takes-lead-in-culture-war/ << Qntra - Credibility Of US Universities Falling As Desire For "Great Again" Takes Lead In "Culture War"
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/07/10/the-wallet-inspectors-promise-v-ico/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The Wallet Inspector’s Promise v.”ICO”
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6B3CA2F9FC994FCEF29102187AA563F096485E5B262AADFA403E301E941AC291 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1570...7077 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.86.180.160 (ssh-rsa key from 210.86.180.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (210-86-180-160.static.asianet.co.th. TH 10)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6B3CA2F9FC994FCEF29102187AA563F096485E5B262AADFA403E301E941AC291 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1407...5429 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.86.180.160 (ssh-rsa key from 210.86.180.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (210-86-180-160.static.asianet.co.th. TH 10)
asciilifeform: http://210.86.180.160/ << lol, readable dirs
mod6: mornin'
mod6: how goes?
ben_vulpes: self-administered "remedial binary arthmetic with practical applications" course is very educational; going well
ben_vulpes: yrself?
mod6: good!
asciilifeform: in other 'news', '-gnatG' flag is very very spiffy
asciilifeform: barfs raw ast out of gnat
asciilifeform: pretty great for debugging failures of, e.g., pragma Restrictions(No_Implicit_Conditionals);
mod6: cool
asciilifeform: so for instance i throw in pragma Restrictions (No_Exception_Propagation); and see "Constraint_Error may result in unhandled exception" and then wonder where,
asciilifeform: and /me considered pasting the example, but turns out it potentially fires in every single line, lol
mod6: ah.
mod6: ok neat, i just ran it against my V stuff, seems to dump out all of the symbols or whatnot
mod6: ah, that's sweet asciilifeform
asciilifeform: see the classic, https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/ , and the rms thread, re why this is not available for c/cpp gcc
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-10#971993 << thread. possibly elsewhere also. )
mod6 reads the rms thread
mod6: lol
asciilifeform: !!up fromdeedbot
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: bold move
trinque: omg, smash and grab
asciilifeform: http://gcc-melt.org << of potential trbological interest.
asciilifeform: mod6 et al ^
ben_vulpes: pretty excellent website
shinohai: nifty!
asciilifeform has not tried $subj
mod6 looks
shinohai: Such efficiency
mircea_popescu: every stroke is precious, every stroke is good
mircea_popescu: iof a stroke is wasted god gets quire irate
BingoBoingo: In other news: Fake news attacking idiot son (Donald Jr.) for trying to impress father because shut out of campaign as an idiot
shinohai: fake news is where the $ is at these dayz
BingoBoingo: Try telling that to CNN
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/fake-news-washington-post-changes-tune-on-russian-collusion/ << Qntra - Fake News Washington Post Changes Tune On Russian Collusion
BingoBoingo: ^ misc corrections applied.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-11#1681522 << how's teh fhf perfing coming along ?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-11 16:30 ben_vulpes: self-administered "remedial binary arthmetic with practical applications" course is very educational; going well
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo espicially
mircea_popescu: "As recently as earlier today, the Fake News empire turned idiot son Donald Junior's gullibility with respect to a phishing scheme1 into their latest headline of the day which they will use to sell loyal consumers of their fiction product on the "certain end" of the 8 year Trumpreich in spite of all the actual evidence running to the contrary of their narrative supported instead by a complete lack of evidence."
mircea_popescu: this is not a sentence.
mircea_popescu: wtf, newswriting not dictionary boating accident
asciilifeform: meanwhile in the land of toy crypto, https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/655 >> '...Inmarsat satellite phones... the 64-bit encryption-key... recovered in around 0.02s on average'
asciilifeform: elsewhere, 'karpeles pleads notguilty'
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: slowlybut surely, expanding the horizon of things i understand, taking the time to make sure i understand each part.
asciilifeform: ...but confesses to tape-painting bot
ben_vulpes: byte arrays to integers for the m+1, m+2, coercions for byte arrays to integers, bit arrays for flipping random bits,
mircea_popescu: karpeles and carl force "trials", parallel lulz constructions.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes here's a high pay grade question for you : of the two models of "controlled de-entropy" i spawned in a week, specifically a) count of randomly placed flipped bits, as in the discussion with you re that and b) string of randomly initiated, n bit long SET bits, as discussed in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681268 which does the bitcoin foundation regard as a better candidate for standardization as "the republic'
a111: Logged on 2017-07-10 19:50 mircea_popescu: which incidentally brings us to a very workable and very useful tmsr definition of entropy quality : take a FG string. flip a number of consecutive bits to 1. the result is your entropy quality, such as 100/1mb if you flipped 100 bits.
mircea_popescu: s measure of de-entropied bitstream" ?
mircea_popescu: and, of course, "and why ?".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd like to see an expanded algo for ^
asciilifeform: 'take a FG string... 100bits'
mircea_popescu: let M = FG[1Mb] ; let P = rnd(0, 1Mb) ; let M[P..P+100] = 1.
asciilifeform: what means 'flip a number of consecutive bits to 1' ?
asciilifeform: ( for what does this operation use the original values that came out of the rng ? )
mircea_popescu: for the other 1048476 bits
asciilifeform unable to parse an implementable algo out of the above
mircea_popescu: what's the rub ?
asciilifeform: i have nfi what 'rnd(0, 1Mb)' does
mircea_popescu: produces a random number between 1 and 1048576
asciilifeform: what's FG[1Mb] do ?
asciilifeform: fills 1048576 bits with rngolade?
mircea_popescu: produces a bit-addressable array of 1048576 bits from FG
asciilifeform: and then we take Pth to P+100th bits and.. what then
mircea_popescu: set them to 1.
asciilifeform: what's that do ?
mircea_popescu: it degrades the entropy of M' so obtained.
asciilifeform: aite, and what to do with M and M' ?
mircea_popescu: M' is now a "known low entropy bitfield". we know it to have degraded by 100/1Mb or w/e the case may be
mircea_popescu: then we feed it into entropy-dependent processes (say the rabin miller test, as discussed yest) and see what comes out.
asciilifeform: so this's a 'meta' test of a given dh-style test ?
mircea_popescu: in a sense. it has multiple utilities, it allows you to try and guess (numerically) whether for instance better entropy or more passes are useful for rabin miller
mircea_popescu: which allows you to correctly balance your tester irl.
mircea_popescu: as in, balance it according to a calculation, rather than according t oa feeling.
asciilifeform: incidentally if there's a vonneuman filter in the pipe, setting consecutive bits does 0
asciilifeform: btw, fun project for FG owners -- connect the analogue hoses to something other than the included boards, and see what you get
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is that, yes. but we're doiong this for instrumentation in teh lab not for any other purpose. it's a tracer for entropy, like the shit they make you swallow to see your stomach.
mircea_popescu: they -- also do 0 if not used as prescribed
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> wtf, newswriting not dictionary boating accident << Cleanup ongoing. Probably ought to write before baking brain in heat or sleep and proofread before publishing. /me resets "Days since linguistic boating accident" sign back to 0 days
shinohai likes mircea_popescu 's barium enema analogy
shinohai: or cocktail as case may be
asciilifeform: iirc the d00d who found the koch whitening lulzgem used a proggy that worked quite like 'barium enema'
mircea_popescu: shinohai :p
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha!
asciilifeform: traced operand flow
mircea_popescu: poor ben_vulpes has been silent since the blessing of wtf 10 minutes ago.
ben_vulpes: gonna hafta think about it, for sure
mircea_popescu: open question.
mircea_popescu: (ie, i dun have an answer for it myself, nor know how to get one.)
asciilifeform: the possibly paradoxical answer, afaik, is there does not actually exist such a thing as good entropy. only bad and worse.
mircea_popescu: as alf points out, a is "better" in the sense v-n debiaser kills b, if this is a better. unclear.
mircea_popescu: a is also twice as strong, because obviously b will flip on average half the bits it sets. but is this ACTUALLY half ? ie, how do yo umeasure unrandomness ? b is much more strongly patterned than a.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no that's exactly what we're doing. controlledly-bad-level entropy.
asciilifeform: there is no mechanical test that, e.g., 'bitflipped digits of pi' does not also pass.
mircea_popescu: the whole discussion is, given a stream of perfect entropy, how to construct known-degree-of-badness out of it.
asciilifeform: even moar outrageously, adding the 100 1s does not in fact 'turn it bad', the P of these 100 1s appearing in a uniform distrib is >0
mircea_popescu: it turns it... WORSE :D
mircea_popescu: those curious -- straight to your ent, see.
mircea_popescu: and in the process see also that ent is not a very good measurement tool.
asciilifeform: dijkstra's 'testing reveals presence of bugs, but not absence' applies just the same to rng.
asciilifeform: ( statistical tests only reveal broken rng , but never a working one )
mircea_popescu: pass-fail tools notoriously horrendous measurement instruments.
asciilifeform: any test whatsoever, past or future.
asciilifeform: passfail or 1024bit number, dun matter.
shinohai: http://archive.is/OBRuJ <<< Another scammer (soon to turn stripper)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this isn't a matter of testing specified bitfields, but specified ~processes~
asciilifeform: e.g., aes(0, 1, 2, ...., maxint) is perfectly uniform by all known tests.
mircea_popescu: FG + de-entropizer =>
mircea_popescu: shinohai she looks camwhoreable.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i actually considered something that is arguably a variant of your test, when designing FG,
mircea_popescu: "thousands of dollars" for maximal lulz.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: "thousands of dollars!"
shinohai: Would be a lulzy Qntra BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: next the usg is going to get off its ass, discover the whole rapereum "ecosystem" was $7600.
asciilifeform: i.e. a lamp whose brightness is proportional to how close (bits emitted from vonneumann filter per sec) / ( bits entering same, per sec) is to 1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform practically same thing, just physical.
asciilifeform: eventually i derived that this is equivalent to the equation seen in the 'watchdog' circuit in fg.v
asciilifeform: so we actually have it, in there, nao.
asciilifeform: ( recall the sheet of paper that came with your FG. )
mircea_popescu: so which did you end up implementing, a or b ?
mircea_popescu: superficially sounds like a.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: b, as i understand, isn't even physically possible without a buffer
asciilifeform: so naturally it's moar 'a'
mircea_popescu: why buffer ?
mircea_popescu: gate, switches on at some point pisses 100 1s, switches back
asciilifeform: as i understand, this doesn't test entropy
asciilifeform: but rather tests a proposed test of entropy.
mircea_popescu: well yes,.
asciilifeform: we ain't got any tests in FG, other than 'von neumann filter has not emitted 8 bits in past 0.5msec -- lamp is red'
asciilifeform: ( how the constant here follows from the circuit -- is an exercise for the reader )
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Escriba?
shinohai: I'm in a state of temporary retirement until market conditions improve.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, as a practical matter. i was just discussing the "must have buffer" theoretical point.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for just about any statistical test ( other than von neumann in/out proportion ) you need a buffer.
asciilifeform: even ~counting to 100 per se~ needs 7+ bits...
mircea_popescu: now this is interesting. there is no... state machine entropy tester ? ynot!
asciilifeform: well they're all statemachines
asciilifeform: q is , how bit
asciilifeform: von neumann's is the smallest that's worth anything
mircea_popescu: i suppose the state goes in what's a buffer.
asciilifeform: a 'value of pi' needs a couplea dozen bits, at least
asciilifeform: you can devise others, in principle, that use however many bits of flipflop you got to work with.
asciilifeform: i deliberately wrote FG for the smallest commercially available cpld that would hold vonneumann + uart
asciilifeform: initially targeted the '9532' but it dun even fit the uart. so it had to be the next size up.
asciilifeform: we use 63 of the 64 available LUTs.
asciilifeform: ( it is normally ~impossible to actually use whole thing, because of routing constraints )
mircea_popescu: somehow the dorks going on "nsa running out of moneyz!" never seem to notice such points in their expert analyseses. "dude, corp that can stuff the cpld like that will NEVER run out of anything."
asciilifeform: !~google krakevisa
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Krakevisa | The Elder Scrolls Mods Wiki | Fandom powered by Wikia: <http://tes-mods.wikia.com/wiki/Krakevisa>; Kråkevisa - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kr%25C3%25A5kevisa>; Leaves Eyes - Krakevisa - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DO7Eu7DX1s2c>
asciilifeform: well, 2nd link. but really you want the text, of this old folk song.
asciilifeform: (unless you speak .no)
asciilifeform: '... and the man who cannot use a crow like this, does not deserve to find one'
mircea_popescu: haha ayep
asciilifeform: full text, with englischization
asciilifeform: ( well-known crackpot chix's www btw )
mircea_popescu: is this a reference to the "lady of pain" ruler of sigil ?
asciilifeform: deeply nfi
asciilifeform: 9536 not 32 lol
asciilifeform: and 71 of 72, not 63/64 lol
asciilifeform: oooh upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-11#1681525 >> '-gnatD' gives MUCH moar readable per-file ast
a111: Logged on 2017-07-11 19:15 asciilifeform: in other 'news', '-gnatG' flag is very very spiffy
asciilifeform: sect. 3 in particular.
asciilifeform: mod6 et al : in other noose, i have a working experimental build with No_Implicit_Conditionals, No_Implicit_Heap_Allocations, No_Implicit_Dynamic_Code, No_Secondary_Stack, No_Exception_Propagation, No_Tasking, No_Protected_Types, No_Delay, No_Allocators, No_Dispatch restrictions.
asciilifeform: interestingly this gives ~0 performance boost. gcc optimizer, turns out, is notbad.jpg.
asciilifeform: ( 'but there was a protected type!' alert reader will ask. the pill is the obvious one, i will reveal it later. )
mod6: nice!
mod6: <+asciilifeform> oooh upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-11#1681525 >> '-gnatD' gives MUCH moar readable per-file ast << ah werd.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-11 19:15 asciilifeform: in other 'news', '-gnatG' flag is very very spiffy
mod6: yah, seems to output .dg files for each
mircea_popescu: mod6 incidentally, it occurs to me : it might be a good idea for the foundation to have some kind of policy whereby people interested can donate servers ? exactly like freenode, in theory, except they fuck it up so uttertly in practice it's not even funny.
mircea_popescu: but their being retarded doesn't mean we can't do it right.
mod6: Ok, that'd be nice; especially if we can audit the hardware somehow.
mod6: (fwiw, I have no clue how freenode does this either)
mircea_popescu: they only get nsa-approved diddleware from privateinternetaccess.com
mircea_popescu: dba variously as usg's very own honeypot for cypher-dorks.
mod6: It could be something along the lines of how I've envisioned the foundation mirrors. someone in L1 can start their own after a discussion with either of us. could be similar maybe.
mod6: They, of course, need to be in good WoT standing, etc.
mircea_popescu: ideally it could take anonymous donations.
mod6: Perhaps for test hardware if they were in very good trust standing, they could send us keys to a host we could use. Not sure otherwise how we would receive such hardware.
mod6: As far as production hardware, not sure how we could vet such an environment. But maybe I can just think on this a bit.
mircea_popescu: yeah, i don't have an obvious pill either. but for instance for running nodes ? what do you care if it's evil. doesn't pay to evil.
trinque: as it stands I'm already the host for the trb deps.
trinque: gladly, can call it a donation to the foundation for sure.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> dba variously as usg's very own honeypot for cypher-dorks. << AHA, dedicated Thermos sodomizer
mod6: mircea_popescu: aha, i see.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-12#1681720 << unfortunately-- wrong; sure does pay. hence the few thou. sybils currently masquerading as btc nodes
a111: Logged on 2017-07-12 02:41 mircea_popescu: yeah, i don't have an obvious pill either. but for instance for running nodes ? what do you care if it's evil. doesn't pay to evil.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a poor indicator. ~nothing the usg does pays.
mircea_popescu: but yes, idiots with daddy's money can do stupid shit thart doesn't even pay.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-12 02:36 mircea_popescu: ideally it could take anonymous donations.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-12 02:34 mircea_popescu: they only get nsa-approved diddleware from privateinternetaccess.com
mircea_popescu: sooner or later the republic will run hardware that nobody can identify the owner of.
asciilifeform: hey this worx great so long as the secrecy of the contents, or the reliability of the computation, dun matter at all
mod6: Perhaps, something could be devised, but it'd be a bit complex. As such, someone could "donate a node" in lieu or some credit to their yearly taxation obligations, and to receive such credit we would need to have some basic requirements met. 1) The node is running trb. 2) It is "caught up". 3) Is available and connected for >95% of the time. 4) Can be independently checked/verified that it is up by some sor
asciilifeform: ( even to the extent of whether it happens )
mod6: t of bot that we have to keep track of such things.
trinque: dunno they're accurately termed "obligations"
trinque: it's a voluntary tax
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1000 unreliable whores still make a brothel.
mircea_popescu: it is, after all, how hot topic / starbux / sephora / whatever ustard outlet even stays in business.
mod6: "com/deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj ) as the sole and complete public contribution that may be required of him ; that such payment satisfies the total burden of taxation upon him, and no further payments may be required, in any form nor for any reason or under any title or pretense, by anyone ; that the satisfaction of this obligation is a moral requirement, and outside of the oppinion of
mod6: the sovereign people it will not be enforced."
mod6: bah.
mod6: sorry.
asciilifeform: depends in which way unreliable. e.g. say they all , on command, simultaneously reveal to be d00dz and pick up rifles. then battalion, whereas yesterday - brothel
mircea_popescu: trinque turns out iffier than that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is that.
asciilifeform: that's the thing with sybils: what you thought were independents, turn out to be an aggregate
mircea_popescu: no, i know.
trinque: mircea_popescu: meant that turning the foundation into a tax man with income tax records seems wrong-headed
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah, should be up to teh forum really.
mod6: I'm not even sure that Mr. P. suggested that -- I only mentioned that as it is yet undefined weather such donation is "obligation free for the foundation". i.e. we hand back nothing in return.
trinque: mod6: nope, was responding to you
mod6: And I only use the word "obligation" as this is the language of the taxation outline within the DoS.
trinque: guy can donate in public, and deem everyone sees he donated, and decide himself to deduct that from tax
mod6: That's fair in the circumstance that said dontation was made public, indeed.
mod6: Anyway, I think this might be a bit off-topic from the original ; ``consider how to accept hardware donations''.
mircea_popescu: fact is : we will slowly and over the years migrate to a situation where control of hardware will not relate to any sort of "paying for it".
mircea_popescu: certainly not in fucking usd ; but moreover - at all. hardware, much like cunt, belongs to he who knows how to use it well, not to he who inherited a herd of sheep.
mircea_popescu: let the shepherd herd his sheep and make cheese out of them. computers are for intelligent people and no one else.
deedbot: accepted: 1
deedbot: accepted: 1
lobbes: !!rate Birdman 1 valued customer
mod6: Perhaps people can donate hardware for whatever purpose trb, uci/gossip via deedbot; then could be accounted for by some process while under our control; maybe even listed as "asset"?
mircea_popescu: possibru
lobbes: !!v 50422E169DE682AB8DAA0F4F94D5A38074FFD57F41A413D7089F263B484FADCF
deedbot: lobbes rated Birdman 1 << valued customer
asciilifeform: the ancient dream of the fungible cpu cycle keeps coming back. but sadly still - a dream
asciilifeform: ( 1024 chickens!11 )
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks for the suggestion, I shall think on it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gotta decorporealize teh hardware alfie.
asciilifeform: not that it's necessarily physical impossibility.
asciilifeform: just that neither asciilifeform nor anybody, afaik, else, knows how.
mircea_popescu: anyway, let it be pointed out that by-capital allocation of computing power is both a) immensely, ridiculously ineffectual and b) not really practiced, not even by the "obviously right way" de facto proponents (usg)
asciilifeform: what means 'by-capital' ?
mircea_popescu: the contortions they came up to "justify" the disconnect are also pretty lulzy. really, bitch, "silicon valley" ? "investors" ? what the fuck else ? "univeresity grants for research" ? reheheheheally ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just that -- have $100, get $100 worth of computer ; not have - not get.
asciilifeform: lol, that happens as often as buying 100 $ of waterfront
mircea_popescu: currently they're "selling" it by, iirc, the half dollar. hence amazon and all that cloudy bs.
asciilifeform: ( 'lease space inside nostril' aws et al also exists, uninterestingly )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right but they sell it at, what , 1000x margin.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's two problems with the by-capital allocation. one is that various lusers (microsoft, govt offices, hospitals, etc) end up buying computers they can afford monetaerily, but can not afford intellectually. then it's all "antivirus companies" and "hackers" and their dumb, drunk-fucking mother on a stick.
mircea_popescu: the other one is that poisonous/poisoned minds end up dedicating their time to navigating the impedance mismatch. so you end up with nsa and "hackers" and "digital crimes" and what have you.
mircea_popescu: none of this nonsense is necessary ; just let go of the notion that dumb kid / arabic speaker / whoever on a stick may touch a machine in his born days.
mircea_popescu: for the cheap added benefit of no further fucking wiki-reddit-washpo-whatevers.
asciilifeform: when asciilifeform toiled in usg salt mine, on some days the Official shitbox would be ~unusable: ~no cycles left over from 'antivirus'
mircea_popescu: obviously the only end state of "man who bought himself wife he could afford money-wise but not really penis-wise" is ... yellow rabid jealousy.
asciilifeform: and during this, thought 'you could easily get folx installing 'virus' wholly voluntarily, if it eliminated this & other crapola in a silent-to-brass way'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda the idea here.
mircea_popescu: no more all-comers computing.
asciilifeform: i fully expect that most 'uci' install would be by hand.
asciilifeform: upclose an' personal
mircea_popescu: possibly.
mircea_popescu: in any case -- let the fucking bureaucracy get back to paper already, it's where it belongs.
trinque: hell I installed far less interesting items all over the place in high school
asciilifeform: this uci thing, is one of those items that is wholly trivial but for ONE unsolved boojum, quite like, e.g., roomtempsupercon
asciilifeform: 'first, steal a chicken..'
mircea_popescu: amusingly -- the chicken stealer (ro gainar, each language that saw them has its own word) is the lowest level of gypsy male qualification. a sort of transient baccalaureat if you will.
asciilifeform: modern equiv prolly 'bike thief'
mircea_popescu: not really, because the gypsies were/are serious about it. sort of like injun "totem animal" thing
asciilifeform: ( usaschwitz inmate could live 100yrs without once seeing a live chicken )
mircea_popescu: (note that in gypsy culture it is not a qualification for theft specifically. just independent operation, not being too dumb to live sorta thing. not a bad test for that, as it turns out.)
mircea_popescu: (and yes -- for girls it IS prostitution. works exactly like black girl booty shaking, if there's music they WILL move. which is how you get 12yos throwing passes at all passers by.)
asciilifeform: possibly we had this thread, but asciilifeform's unpublished, failed stab 'at bitcoin' decade+ ago was , more or less, 'uci running martianbank'
asciilifeform: plugging the funnel at wrong end, so to speak.
asciilifeform: and to this day afaik nobody has anything like a sybilproof way to glue 1024 unreliable chickens into a simulacrum of a pc
asciilifeform: even if you cut the problem domain down to simple storage - turns out, tricky
asciilifeform: ( ever use 'mule' w4r3znet? that's still the state of the art... )
mircea_popescu: i guess mostly open problem huh
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> modern equiv prolly 'bike thief' << In my experience people taking bikes dun really get attached to them. Bike was there and they could use it to go drug faster.
mircea_popescu: ~same as hopping subway turnstile
BingoBoingo: Girls tend to get the opportunity to graduate to "tampering with motor vehicle" i.e. stealing man's car to drug faster and man staying pissed long enoug to file charges, but not long enough to press for Grand Theft Auto
BingoBoingo: So "tampering" charge is all that's left for oppression apparatus to pursue
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