Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-05-18 | 2017-05-20 → ↓
mircea_popescu: !!up buenosaires
deedbot: buenosaires voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!up andav
deedbot: andav voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: o wait, argentina. obviously retarded.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6FCA2E6AEDD3C38B3E8CBFED4BFDAE661540AA34F168B4E792B2EB3768C29FF0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1427...3583 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.243.15.2 (ssh-rsa key from 80.243.15.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6FCA2E6AEDD3C38B3E8CBFED4BFDAE661540AA34F168B4E792B2EB3768C29FF0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1605...8367 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.243.15.2 (ssh-rsa key from 80.243.15.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
ben_vulpes: holding this vulnerability secret is doing such wonders
mircea_popescu: professionalism, you don't understand.
ben_vulpes: > (such attack did not exist, but it seemed a fair explanation).
shinohai: AR returns
shinohai: annnnnnnnnnnnnd leaves again
mod6: nb
mod6: and FREE!
mircea_popescu: unoccupied
Framedragger: just HN things - on google home (the "send all audio to google" appliance): "I have one, it's convenient and lets me control my home in what feels like a natural way. Personally, I don't see the downside of having it. Note; I mean I don't acknowledge a downside from my perspective. I'm fully aware that it's always listening and sending data home when it hears a keyword."
Framedragger: "According to Google, it will only send voice data back when it hears the keyword. Now if it explicitly goes against its own stated privacy policy, that's a breach of trust I would not be happy with. That said, if they explicitly stated they send all audio back, I'd actually be fine with that too."
shinohai: I see this making the n-gate roundup for the week
Framedragger: srsly :D ("i trust the back alley guy to only give me the tip; it wouldn't be nice if he wasn't honest about it. but if he said he'd fuck me in the ass from the get go, i guess that's ok")
shinohai: At least you know to stock up on lube beforehand, ammirite?
Framedragger: totally.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
ave1: asciilifeform: Well, i wanted to save the carry from the square and include it when needed but I made a mistake: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1658947
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 02:10 asciilifeform: !~later tell ave1 your mod-exp is just an... exp. and what was mcarry for ???
ave1: Line after FZ_Mul should have been: Carry := C or Carry or W_Mux(0, MCarry, 1 and FZ_Get_Head(E));
ave1: Plus I assumed modulo was to be on the FZ size, arbitrary module would involve a IDIV at the end (or mask if module will be some power of 2)
ave1: module -> modulo
ave1: I've been working on SQR, but although I can lower the number of steps, the operations per step go up, so far only 10% overall speed-up
mircea_popescu: !!up moli_
deedbot: moli_ voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: Buenas dias, Sr. Popescu! o/
asciilifeform: ave1: div-at-the-end mod-exp won't work for, e.g., rsa
asciilifeform: it will overflow
mircea_popescu: hola shinohai !
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1658981 << contrary to shutin consensus, most chicks at the bar are slipping themselves roofies in desperation. if he didn't make it as a singer, at least maybe google thinks him a star ?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 11:24 Framedragger: srsly :D ("i trust the back alley guy to only give me the tip; it wouldn't be nice if he wasn't honest about it. but if he said he'd fuck me in the ass from the get go, i guess that's ok")
mircea_popescu: problem of modernity is nobody wants to listen. that nobody has anything to say worth listening to is obviously sufficient cause for that ; but the nobodies in question would much rather approach the problem from the former horn than the latter. good god, having something to say worth listening to sounds like it'd take effort.
mircea_popescu: way the fuck easier just pretending like the hairspray tubes are REALLY mics. google makes this easy now.
mircea_popescu wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if all this "big data" utilization is 0.0000 ppm.
asciilifeform: 'i am honest man and have nothing to hide!!' (tm)(r)(1990s key escrow derps)
mircea_popescu: yet he wears clothes.
asciilifeform: only because inca issued
ave1: asciillifeform: ah, I understand I will do some more thinking on this, having a div after the mul and sqr would be less ideal, but an arbitrary modulo sqr and mul would be interesting
mircea_popescu: so the whole hiding song and dance has nothing to do with anything.
asciilifeform: ave1: not merely 'less than ideal', but totally useless
asciilifeform: won't even work on toy rsa that way
asciilifeform: ( remember, we have ~fixed~ size integers, unlike other bignumtrons , they ~won't~ stretch to the absurd length you would need if you used div-after )
ave1: Yes, I understand, it would add n bits times m ops where n is 4096 at the minimum (already the pow takes a lot of time with the MUL and SQR in there)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657602 << "i've been thinking, so i've bought" the system works!
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 22:08 asciilifeform: 'This year, I’ve been thinking about prime numbers, and my hosting provider has run another sale on domain names. So, I’ve bought isthisprime.com. You can probably guess what I’ve made it do.'
mircea_popescu: you think it, you buy it!
asciilifeform: ave1: i also suspect that it would be simpler ~and~ faster to predict the overflow by finding eldest-bit of operands
asciilifeform: rather than having the mux run twice per step
mircea_popescu: incidentally : "define *' so that modx(a * b) = modx(a) *' modx(b)" should be a legitimate abstract algebra approach.
asciilifeform: other thing: ~modular~ exp can't oveflow !
asciilifeform: how would it? result is necessarily < the modulo
asciilifeform: which in turn must sit down in the width given
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i imagine he means that it overflow between the exp and the modular steps.
asciilifeform: only regular exponentiation can overflow
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, but that is because he implemented it without thinking, sorta like doing mult by repeated addition
mircea_popescu: yes well.
mircea_popescu: also incidentally : what is the relation between arbitrary modulo, factorization, and reducing mults to adds ?
asciilifeform: expand re that last one
mircea_popescu: (12 * 5) mod 6 = 0, yes ?
asciilifeform: what of it
mircea_popescu: i could predict this without looking at the 5.
mircea_popescu: what ~else~ can i predict, and looking at what exactly inside the two factors ?
asciilifeform: which is what you did here
asciilifeform: and not especially much else ( as far as asciilifeform knows. or he'd be breaking moar rsa )
mircea_popescu: 4 * 5 mod 6 = 4. (6-4)*5 mod 6 = 4. 7*5 = 35 mod 6 = 5. 1*5 mod 6 = ...
asciilifeform pictures tmsr number theory school. it's an earthen pit, with an old kindergarten textb00k...
asciilifeform: i bet mircea_popescu has one for his pets
mircea_popescu: deride, deride, but half the world's magic works on this!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you might find pollard-rho algo to be interesting. possibly it is what you were thinking of, earlier.
mircea_popescu: i wasn't thinking of anything specific, past the indeed kindergarten intuition that there's more to the triplet than we figured out.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, maybe i'm behind the times.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the pit is mandatory. the only diff b/w mircea_popescu's pitpets and dour autodidacts is that the pets occasionally get to leave the pit
mircea_popescu: but they don't want to.
asciilifeform: i recall first encounter with rsa.. frustration, 'the factors are IN there, damn it'
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: look at the euler curve all you want, it dun satisfactorily resolve it.
mircea_popescu: (n/logn)
asciilifeform: 'P' will, i suspect, get some unexpected use as number theory sandbox for n00bz
mircea_popescu: quite expected.
asciilifeform: incidentally the other-than-ffz part, is done
mircea_popescu: anyway, re other point : i dun believe there is such a thing as an autodidact. everyone that knows anything learned that thing, themselves. no one can learn outside of an environment, and there is no deeper relevancy to convention of the time than that -- convention of the time. dude who learns in dark room is going to be weird one way, girly that learns in room with other girlies and teacher is going to be weird the other wa
mircea_popescu: y. one tends to go around naked and slather peanut butter on himself, the other tends to behave as if the panties were glued on, there's really no substantial difference.
asciilifeform: when i'm satisfied with the numerics, incl. primality test, i'ma genesis it..
phf: i'm getting a weirdest behavior on mac. a dumped lisp image with executable payload: when call it from shell "directly", i.e. ./foo works fine, but when you call it "global" i.e. it's in path and you say foo it responds with "read_mach_o_header: Bad file descriptor"
mircea_popescu: too macho.
phf throws stacks of notes, walks away from computer
mircea_popescu never ran anything on a mac.
asciilifeform: i'ma guess that phf had ~another~ foo in his path
mircea_popescu: weird error for that
phf: asciilifeform: that would be the first guess, but `which` disagrees
asciilifeform: phf: can you strace ?
phf: in fact!!! $(which foo) works
mircea_popescu: do you need diff permission sets to run global vs directly ?
phf: no, theoretically there shouldn't be any kind of difference at all
mircea_popescu: is the drive dying just-so ?
asciilifeform: cosmicrays!!!111
phf: nope, recompiled the binary from different file, new name, etc. same result. it's something about how cmucl packs an executable
mircea_popescu: my most frustrating experience in this vein was back in dos dies, one of those maxtor 40mb, dick-tall drives. which i thought properly immortal, at the time.
mircea_popescu: had a sorta-bad sector, kept fucking with me until it finally died hours later.\
asciilifeform: i got one of these in a box, that still worked last i saw
mircea_popescu: remember those things ? more steel on them than on today's toyota.
asciilifeform: now , picture a cinderblock-sized version
phf: it's when certain kinds of harddrive clicks permanently trigger a sense of dread in you
asciilifeform: that's what's in my lispm
mircea_popescu: phf costa rica has a bird, does the EXACT FUCNING NOISE
phf: ahaha
phf verdict: "not moving"
mircea_popescu: there's also an insect that sounds EXACTLY like a dying fan
asciilifeform: colibri, in mating season
asciilifeform: clicks beak
mircea_popescu: there's also a bird that cackles, literally. so we'd be fucking or talking or w/e, and the bird is a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
phf: you sure it's not one of them wayward sisters?
mircea_popescu: dude! the ro guy, ex-con ex-pm ? actually published my comment. color me impressed.
mircea_popescu: phf the who ?
shinohai: Perhaps the macho can be balanced with a dose of `rico suave`
mircea_popescu: rrrrrricco suaveeee
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which pm
mircea_popescu: adrian nastase.
asciilifeform: sounds familiar
asciilifeform: was he responsible for the 'ducks and the trucks' ?
mircea_popescu: was pm for a few years. anyway, he wrote some derpage about "the state", and i wrote a scathing comment.
mircea_popescu: nah, that was ion iliescu, president. they teaqmed up for a while though.\
phf: you know, the weird sisters, hand in hand, posters of the sea and land
mircea_popescu: i have no idea about this whole thing! wut is it phf ?
phf: the three witches from macbeth! i always imagine them cackling. so you're walking around the street, hear cackling, which is a kind of call of inevitability, you shake it off like "begone, chimera, must be some weird beard, nothing else" but you ~know~
phf: *bird
mircea_popescu: it's not an ominous cackle at all. more like bird is literally amused at our bs and losing its shit.
mircea_popescu: it is perhaps the definitive difference between genders, that man would love nothing more than for woman to do something useful while he fucks her.
asciilifeform: probably same d00d has a vcr in his auto
mircea_popescu: watches wifey clean while stuck in traffic ?
asciilifeform: and a comp in the shitter
mircea_popescu: and aquarelle in the shower ?
asciilifeform: sky's the limit
asciilifeform: lol swordswallower
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why was nastase imprisoned ?
asciilifeform: stepped on clitler's foot ?
mircea_popescu: this question allows multiple answers. but basically, suppose trump actually was traian basescu. then clinton WOULD be in jail.
mircea_popescu: what for ? well, for being a contemptible low life. plenty of shit to convict her of, if you actually were to apply you know, "the iron hand of teh law" that black dudes with a nickle bag keep running into.
mircea_popescu: in this specific case, for taking a bribe in the form of some electoral campaign materials some other dudes gave some other dudes in exchange for what some other dudes did.
asciilifeform: yeah nobody at or above city dog catcher political level, in usa, would survive this procedure
asciilifeform: not most 'corporate' types, either
mircea_popescu: but anyway -- was a major victory for the us dept of nuland, because thsi was the first time local aristocracy actrually got the black treatment. guy took it verypersonal, tried to shoot self, had a hole in jaw for a while.
mircea_popescu: which is why i even bothered pointing it out to him, "you fucking idiot, you're STILL defending "the state" wtf is wrong with you."
asciilifeform: now i'm curious, with what weapon
asciilifeform: somewhat unusual result tho
asciilifeform: was, what, pneumatic pistol
asciilifeform: why any jaw left
mircea_popescu: eh, he's a pasty. wtf does he know about guns or shooting them.
mircea_popescu: there's all sorts of losers who imagine these objects are a sort of holy amulet, and the only reason they dun do anything is because "they don't want to", but if "one day" they "decided" to "use them" then WHAM!
mircea_popescu: except irl that's not how anything works.
asciilifeform: this is a rather low bar, however. the marksmanship to correctly eat your pistol.
mircea_popescu: do you know how many women "try to commit suicide" ?
asciilifeform: oughta be taught in school -- as jp taught noble boys to properly seppuku , with wooden training knife
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: them's different - for show
mircea_popescu: not so different. guy's nickname, "bombonel". approximately, "little candyboy"
asciilifeform: how'd that come about
mircea_popescu: !#s academia catavencu
asciilifeform: he cornered confectionary business, like poroshenko ?
mircea_popescu: well, there was this ro version of le canard enchaine ; it was really good. for half a decade or so, absolutely mandatory reading. some shit in there i laughed at for days.
mircea_popescu: they kept calling him that. possibly on some grounds, but i never fucked him myself so...
mircea_popescu: but the intension is strictly that gay bottom.
asciilifeform: i always found it interesting, that this fine orc custom never caught on in usa
asciilifeform: insulting nicknames for political idiots
mircea_popescu: the us entirely consists of political idiots.
mircea_popescu: it has no culture, no history ; it has no business class, no anything. what exactly would they say ? compared to whom.
asciilifeform: they could still say, e.g., 'clitler'.
mircea_popescu: wasn't something re bush jr ?
asciilifeform: dunno if it ever really caught on tho
mircea_popescu: no culture. nothing can "catch on" in any meaningful sense. romania is a nation, the us is a sort of india.
mircea_popescu: soviet jokes also "didn't catch on", which became a joke in itself -- teh georgians dun understand all these muscovy joeks!
mircea_popescu: otherwise, inside given cultural space, shit catches on. but no dominant one in us like there was in su (yes, the aspie 14% keeps trying to pretend, but ain't nearly the same thing).
mircea_popescu: (but, worry not -- "climate change" activism is there!)
mod6: mornin'
asciilifeform: ^ in re cn building rail in europe etc
mircea_popescu: "resources changing hands" eh.
mircea_popescu: basically, they're not afraid. this bodes well for fiat o.O
ben_vulpes: well it took months, but the shannonizers have finally figured out that #bitcoin-assets doesn't have a voice model
mircea_popescu: just what perpetually lazy greeks & co need --- bout time for another "marshall plan".
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes anything good ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: kako unplugged it when he went off to asia iirc
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: mhm
mircea_popescu: ahahaha finally went home to teh miners ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: just the typical "inflate inflate!" if you remember that guy
mircea_popescu: notrly, but yeah.
ben_vulpes: the actual lolz are fluffyponzi ignoring "hey, gonna make that 'monero blockchain integrity scan' reproducible?" in favor of "we had to keep it secret because other cryptonotes were vulnerable"
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2017#1471209 << for entomologists -- typical example of kako thread , we had 1,001 of these since dragon day. read one, read'em all.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-24 13:14 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "I’m all for filth but on my terms, bucko." << they can't quite figure it out lol. the ~only~ "on my terms" woman gets is if her terms happen to (silently!) coincide. otherwise... it's the dogs. << Seriously
asciilifeform: lol!! phf , that thing dun quite work
asciilifeform: i guess this was not the intended usage .
mircea_popescu: i am mp and wut is this ?
mircea_popescu: not very interesting crap, is it.
asciilifeform: but typical.
asciilifeform: he never gets tired, either.
asciilifeform: which is a little odd, for a d00d supposedly relaxing in the company of fine whores on thai beaches
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: has to come out of a script at this point
ben_vulpes: he's got like three lazzi, what
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659175 << afaik the monero users give approx. as much shit as the tor users gave .
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 15:53 ben_vulpes: the actual lolz are fluffyponzi ignoring "hey, gonna make that 'monero blockchain integrity scan' reproducible?" in favor of "we had to keep it secret because other cryptonotes were vulnerable"
asciilifeform: 100% mutual hallucination, 'we close our eyes and there is no wolf'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm just doling rope out over here
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure that's right, they literally don't give a shit about anything that's further out than lunch break / takes more thought than lulzpic etc.
asciilifeform: it's what makes crackpot-alts such perfect chump-harvesters
asciilifeform: to begin with.
mircea_popescu: sure. well... 300 years ago it was "chartered companies".
mircea_popescu: "for a purpose so secret no one may know what it is" etc.
asciilifeform: and 50 yrs -- penny stock
mircea_popescu: "some new device for televising opera"
mircea_popescu: can't even argue with it. in their environment, it dun pay to care. what's gonna happen, gunman shows up massacres the lot ? hurr, not like ~anything their brains could come up with'd help in that situation. what other environmental pressure do they encounter ? nothing surmountable. if the corp trough has pepsi that day, they can stand on fuckiong head won't get coke. "company policy".
mircea_popescu: the result of making all possible change, even the most dismal and unimportant, mindboggling expensive is a large set of cows. they dun care. why shouyld they care ? while the oats & hay lasts they eat and foal ; once it ends it ends. that's all.
mircea_popescu: conceivably someone in the eg donner party went over to the cattle, to tell them that they're fucked, feed's running out, etc. if they did, there was certainly no observable change in cattle behaviour. the fuck were they gonna do ?
mircea_popescu: cow finds out how to walk on two legs, extract ore, smelt metal, build helicopter, fly over to californy come back with another bushel of oats ? what is this, supercow al rescate ?
asciilifeform: and moreover, why would he ~come back~
asciilifeform: and if came back, why not with butcher.
mircea_popescu: well yes, the thing is weak in all articulations, including that one.
mircea_popescu: which takes us right back to the kako lulz. i was sitting with girl earlier, idly observed "check out that dork, argentina was too far for him. china -- not. what the fuck is wrong with people." and she explained. "you know what it is. bitcoin went up. you're thinking, eh, he made hundreds, what does he care. he cares -- because he mostly sold them as he got them, good little soviet."
mircea_popescu: then they worry about ~my~ bitcoin income. i suppose cows also worry about human dwelling -- no large salt rock in livingroom, how do those poor people live!
asciilifeform: hey, not even china, first nz, then th !
mircea_popescu: right right.
asciilifeform: i dun recall whether he made a cn stop
asciilifeform: d00d posted various buddhas etc
mircea_popescu: anyway, the only reason this is lulzy is because (different) girl estimated him incapable of going further than a few hundred miles for cultural / mentality reasons.
asciilifeform: didn't he motor all around eu at one time
asciilifeform: in his boeing-toyota
mircea_popescu: which was the thing, back then, "of course he's not going -- to ag or anywhere else. too far from home, country boy."
asciilifeform: as for 'ar is too far', d00d was (from his pov) poor -- a small wad of btc, but the damocle's sword of having to do honest work one day, loomed; then he 'sold the motherland' and now rich, problemsolved.
asciilifeform: in other news, a 4096-bit A**B takes approx 14 seconds (3GHz) .
asciilifeform: ( unoptimized square )
asciilifeform: (recall, it dun matter what the operands are equal to)
asciilifeform: 2048 bit : ~10s
asciilifeform: 8192 still hasn't returned...
asciilifeform: probably doomed to karatsuba
asciilifeform: 8192 returned:
asciilifeform: 10 minutes.
asciilifeform: which is not mega-surprise, the op is O(N^5).
asciilifeform: as written.
asciilifeform: the funny part is that this is actually ~usable for pgp-like use
asciilifeform: if it were not for KEY GENERATION
asciilifeform: which would take several years.
ben_vulpes: in other peak oil news, fuel inventories filling again.
asciilifeform: a 8192-bit mul takes ~0.06s
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'load shedding'
ben_vulpes: aka "demand destruction"?
asciilifeform: 0.06 is off by factor of ~2, measuring with rough clock suxx. but overall idea is correct.
asciilifeform: even if proper squaring were instantaneous (and it won't be, it will be perhaps 2x faster), this is still painful.
asciilifeform: ( overall speed would improve 2x )
asciilifeform: nao we need a non-recursive (! , SPARK won't allow recursion nor is it constanttimesafe to have any), constant-time karatsuba...
asciilifeform: hey loox like ben_vulpes is awake, why not ~he~ try
a111: Logged on 2017-05-03 13:11 mircea_popescu: and if mp organises a conference there's going to be a conference and if he does not there's not going to be one and if we need an isp how about mp makes it and so on and so forth up the fucking wall.
asciilifeform: possibly i explained this next bit, but can't seem to find it in the l0gz, so will post here ftr :
asciilifeform: a 'schoolbook' (word-by-word, using * (which will compile to IMUL instr on x86) multiplier will be faster than the 'egyptian' one. the catch is,
asciilifeform: that there is NO guarantee that MUL/IMUL (or equiv. on other cpu) is constant time !!
asciilifeform: in fact, it is well-known not to be constant time on recent intels.
asciilifeform: shift-and-add ('egyptian') mult. has advantage that cpu CANNOT attempt to optimize
asciilifeform: (what's it gonna do ? not shift? not add ? how'd it know when.)
asciilifeform: witness, incidentally, the lack of a 'constant-MUL' instruction on any extant cpu.
asciilifeform: think accident??
asciilifeform: see also this d00d's -- https://bearssl.org/ctmul.html -- attempt to solve the problem in the maximally backwards, utterly ill-conceived ways.
asciilifeform: but at least sees that it is a problem..
asciilifeform: the multiplication problem is incidentally a textbook instance of 'specificity of diddling'. if someone offered any of you a cpu that has a 'rsa instruction', you'd barf. because very clearly paints a target for the enemy, giving him info he has no business having re what you intend to eat, when, with what spoon
asciilifeform: but having a 'mul' instruction is in fact a thing on the same continuum!
asciilifeform: cpu, designed by enemy, goes 'aha! he wants to mul! what can i leak about his operands..!'
asciilifeform: 'i know! the number of bits equalling 1! i'ma broadcast'
asciilifeform: of course it is even easier if idiot luser uses 'library' or 'os api' crypto. hence why the insistent and incessant schneiering, 'don't write own crypto!'
asciilifeform: arm cpu is incidentally ~egregious~ offender
asciilifeform: re nonconstant mul.
mod6: hmm
mod6: do the disassembled module parts look how you'd expect them to look?
mod6: i.e. is the compiler adding bloat that you didn't expect?
asciilifeform: well it adds bounds checks
asciilifeform: but i ain't giving those up
asciilifeform: understand, the constant term doesn't matter.
asciilifeform: generally, ever.
asciilifeform: when you have an O(N^5) !!
mod6: right.
mod6: apparently ada also allows inline-asm. who knew?
asciilifeform: it does but this is SPECIFICALLY anti- what i want.
asciilifeform: i'd write whole thing in asm then.
mod6: ya
asciilifeform: and it'd be approx same size, incidentally.
asciilifeform: and run maybe 20% faster.
asciilifeform: but married to x86, and certainly not fits-in-head.
mod6: indeed.
asciilifeform: i know what the retarded solutions look like, at this point ALL of the published ones, i'd bet, i've read. if i wanted to perpetrate the same retardation, i'd simply use one of'em.
mod6: ya
asciilifeform: every single subcomponent has to run at ~worst case~ complexity at all times. i.e. 0**0 takes same time as (2**8192)**(2**8192).
asciilifeform: that's what constant-time means.
ben_vulpes: > No seeds were lost but the ability of the rock vault to provide failsafe protection against all disasters is now threatened by climate change
ben_vulpes: so you dug a hole in a mountain and called it an impregnable vault
ben_vulpes: and then it flooded because you didn't actually call the actuaries and ask how likely the permafrost was to melt in the next millino years
asciilifeform: hey, it ain't a disaster, it's practically a cheque for 4x the grantolade
ben_vulpes: omfg the willful ignorance and self-deception.
asciilifeform: build new!!11
asciilifeform: just like them cyclotrons
asciilifeform: failure-is-success, moar-studies-needed, etc
ben_vulpes: well pay 10x up front for a thing that works, or 1x for a thing that appears to work so long as we don't move too far from initial conditions.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 18:57 asciilifeform: there is no money, in modern usg reich, in SOLVING a problem
ben_vulpes: rank incompetence.
asciilifeform: the sheer megalomania of 'seed vault' was breathtaking, even compared to, say, u.s. nuke network
asciilifeform: 'maybe we can make seeds scarce one day, by fucking with weather' 'and guess what, only source of new ones will be usg!'
trinque: christ, the "lets be proactive about global warming" thing takes the cake.
phf: “failsafe“ even the article puts it in quotes
asciilifeform: btw so far all i know is inference from ben_vulpes's headline. wouldja link to the original, ben_vulpes , plox ??
trinque: moral obligation to shoot anyone who begins "seeding atmosphere with reflective whatevers" or meddling impulse of the day
asciilifeform: terrible habit, this
asciilifeform: not linking.
ben_vulpes: sorry, sorry
asciilifeform: trinque: and anyone who 'seed vault mega-fortress in antarctica'
asciilifeform: thing's as legit a military target, imho , as it gets.
ben_vulpes: "seed vaults" are like people who "just want titanium bitcoin keys"
ben_vulpes: no buddy, you are now in the business of maintaining computronium/gardens.
trinque: all flavors of cowardice begging mother to remove all possible failures, death mostest.
trinque: asciilifeform: the observation that these make monsantos cum, absolutely.
phf: you'd think, in an engineering project, rather then a political one, an incident like that is a welcome opportunity to go back to drawing board and attempt to address the deficiencies of current design
asciilifeform: there are no ~natural~ disasters where the 'seed vault' thing would turn out to be an asset.
asciilifeform: only monsantotronic ones ( and even these, somewhat of a stretch )
asciilifeform: it's to be seen as ~exactly like the lavish nuke-shelters (complete with underground casino and whorehouse) americans like to build.
asciilifeform: for lizards.
phf: i think if not for an implicit whiny political message, it could've been a nifty long now project. if nothing else, a seed repository for museum purposes. it would be, for example, interesting to observe natural mutations that might take place from now till the vault is consulted
asciilifeform: mutations will happen at ~same rate in the vault.
ben_vulpes: i was laboring under the delusion that it /was/ a long now project!
asciilifeform: they happen mostly from decay of organism's own K-40.
asciilifeform: rather than external 'cosmic ray' etc
phf: wut
asciilifeform: see yesterday's thread.
phf: there's no aha, we're talking about inert seeds. mutations happen as part of selection process in reproduction cycle
asciilifeform: well the implicit comparison is to refrigerator on the continent
asciilifeform: where you can also keep seeds.
asciilifeform: dna rots 'in situ', while not being copied, just as in the usual process.
asciilifeform: ( if this were not so, 'unextincting' the creatures of the past, would be trivial )
asciilifeform: last i saw, nobody had an especially long fragment of mammonth genome. despite refrigeration !
phf: when i said mutations, i meant the iterative selection stuff. i don't know how well the seeds store, and if they don't, then there's not much of a point to the whole thing.
asciilifeform: they'll store.
asciilifeform: but the point of the vault is to keep'em far from some folx, vs others
asciilifeform: not from mutation.
asciilifeform: (observe, many folx , worldwide, already store seeds . but those don't make headlines , nor collect $billions in grantola from 'international komyoonity')
asciilifeform: at any rate i can scarcely picture what the advertised vault could be other than a targeting decoy.
asciilifeform: so it dun matter, to ~anyone in particular, if it floods, burns down, or gets rm -rf /'d by martians.
asciilifeform: so long as advertised later to have been 'repaired and good as new and with further climatechangeproofing' slathered on top.
phf: well, it's a mythological device
asciilifeform: exactly like a missile shield.
asciilifeform: lives in the 'twilight' between the engineered artifact and the religious 'pyramid'.
phf: well, i think mythological devices are not inherently bad as long as they have some aesthetic value to it. problems is most of these projects are mythology for progressive bureaucrats, so they are fully stripped of aesthetics and only have implied didactic value. sort of like a church with an angry god, but no awesome transcendent
asciilifeform: there is, however, a logical (if you will) component . there's a school of thought among lizards - normally ted turner is the name that comes up, but only because he afaik was the only unabashed, publicly confessed adherent -- that it'd be nice, from lizard pov, to physically exterminate the (actual) free world
asciilifeform: so that usg and its catamites could have their 1,001-year-reich
phf: lol good luck with that
asciilifeform: early on (1960s) when su got nuke parity, it was decided that the nuke pathway probably won't work
asciilifeform: so they switched to 'slow poison'
asciilifeform: 'unsexy', slow, 'boring' methods, e.g. mcdonaldization
asciilifeform: but the continued (not so seekrit) existence of, e.g., american biowar programme, suggests that the 'old flame' has not yet entirely gone out.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659228 << there's no real reason to support anything other than 4096.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 17:37 asciilifeform: 10 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 18:23 asciilifeform: think accident??
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, NOBODY to date, and outside of us, nobody at all ever conceived of using digital computers for cryptography. period and full stop.
mircea_popescu: ics are these things that go into the fridge so you can play mario while figuring out what to take out of it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659265 << has this ever not been the case, ever since the demise of mel ?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 18:48 mod6: i.e. is the compiler adding bloat that you didn't expect?
mircea_popescu: !~calc 0**0
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 0**0 = 1
mircea_popescu: i had nfi that is even defined. why is it defined ?
mircea_popescu: "anything multipled by 0 is 0 ; anything raised to the power of 0 is 1." call http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-15#1656407
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 16:23 mircea_popescu: btw, you know the famous case of buridan's ass yes ?
mircea_popescu: anyway : some people say it's not for the people to shoot theresa may. i disagree.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659313 << there are no deficiencies of current design, nor could there be. she is perfect in every way as she is and she shouldn't ever change.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 19:08 phf: you'd think, in an engineering project, rather then a political one, an incident like that is a welcome opportunity to go back to drawing board and attempt to address the deficiencies of current design
mircea_popescu: good thing they included femvoices in the public sphere.
danielpbarron: 0 to the 0 is indeterminate, as in it could equal anything depending on what the limit functions are that get to 0
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659318 << maybe i'm not getting what you're saying, but how are the mutations to occur in a vault ? they're not growing and producing seeds and growing again, are they ? or you want to examine what, individual embryo cells ?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 19:12 phf: i think if not for an implicit whiny political message, it could've been a nifty long now project. if nothing else, a seed repository for museum purposes. it would be, for example, interesting to observe natural mutations that might take place from now till the vault is consulted
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron it was when i went to hs, but i figured they've progressed past that
mircea_popescu: gotta keep up with our democracy n'est pas.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659332 << seeds store fabulously well. they found viable lower empire wheat in pyramid-buried amphora, 3-4k years old.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 19:23 phf: when i said mutations, i meant the iterative selection stuff. i don't know how well the seeds store, and if they don't, then there's not much of a point to the whole thing.
danielpbarron: apparently Euler argued that 0^0 should equal 1 on the basis that n^0 equals 1. also, my ti-89 says 0^0 = 1
mircea_popescu: yes, but could equally well argue it should equal 0 on the basis that 0*x = 0.
danielpbarron: but that's a weaker argument to make since there are zero terms
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659344 << i thought that was soros. anyway.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 19:41 asciilifeform: there is, however, a logical (if you will) component . there's a school of thought among lizards - normally ted turner is the name that comes up, but only because he afaik was the only unabashed, publicly confessed adherent -- that it'd be nice, from lizard pov, to physically exterminate the (actual) free world
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron in what sense, weaker ?
danielpbarron: zero times itself zero times, as in... there is nothing at all to multiply
mircea_popescu: well... by the same argument raising to the 0th power is no raising to any powers ?
danielpbarron: it is not controversial to say that 1^0 equals 1. that is one times itself zero times
mircea_popescu: moreover, the strong argument is ex nihilo nihil. n ^ 0 is validly something, but 0 processed in any way can't properly make anything besides itself.
mircea_popescu: n ^ 0 is practically speaking the mathematical notation of aristotle's prime mover. "before anything, everything was one."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659351 << gotta realize, you need a 8192b register to do 4096 (e.g., mircea_popescu's familiar mod) key.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 19:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659228 << there's no real reason to support anything other than 4096.
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
asciilifeform: the other thing is that key gen that takes a year, instead of 10yrs, is still not useful.
asciilifeform: as for n ^ 0, this is not mega-mystery :
asciilifeform: say, x/x . elementarily, 1
asciilifeform: x ^ 1 / x ^ 1 = 1
asciilifeform: x ^ 2 / x ^ 1 = x ^ 1 ; x ^ n / x ^ m = x ^ (n - m)
asciilifeform: so you gotta have x ^ 0 = 1
asciilifeform: or now you have this weird special turd case for no reason.
mircea_popescu: that part is no problem.
mircea_popescu: but x/x is not 1 if x=0. also elementary.
asciilifeform: it's a eggog
mircea_popescu: so is 0**0.
asciilifeform: but one that doesn't propagage (unlike div0) so nobody signals it.
asciilifeform: *propagate
mircea_popescu: anyway, danielpbarron original approach, ie with limits of functionals, is imo also the correct one. and in this perspective f ^ g when both f and g ->0 is properly undefined.
asciilifeform: as for euler's convention, see also https://archive.is/QmXbi
asciilifeform: ( summary : 0**0 != 1 would make expansion of taylor series a bitch )
asciilifeform: better phrasing would be -- it wouldn't win anybody anything
mircea_popescu: 4 != 5 also makes whatever a bitch.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this isn't a business transaction. i dun give a shit who suffers from math.
asciilifeform: gimme a propagating eggog, a la div0 or 4 := 5 , that results from 0**0=1.
asciilifeform: because that's the standard for distinguishing an axiom from an arbitrary notational.
mircea_popescu: not in my book.
asciilifeform: ooh can we do axiom of choice next!1111
mircea_popescu: i thought we do that like twice a week.
asciilifeform: [insert massive, week-long mathewank here]
mircea_popescu: anyway, to humor you and with absolutely no dispositive intent : let f(x) = 1/x ; let g(x) = 1/x*2. let x ->n. 0**0 = 1 implies x -> 1 when x->n.
asciilifeform: iirc that was euler's argument aha
mircea_popescu: pretty self-evident.
mircea_popescu: ie, ANY error, no matter how justified, IS, exactly, ~exactly~ equal any other.,
mircea_popescu: there isn't in math a possible classification of errors. any one is sufficient to "prove" all others.
mircea_popescu: this is, in fact, the standard for what math is.
asciilifeform: circular. you gotta define what ~is~ an error
mircea_popescu: i know 'em when i see 'em.
asciilifeform: now where do i buy a pocket mircea_popescu !1111
mircea_popescu: who dun have one, let him buy one.
mircea_popescu: ( g is 1/x**2 above, if it wasn't obvious)
asciilifeform is haunted by the notion that constant-time karatsuba gotta exist SOMEWHERE
asciilifeform: srsly, nobody ?
ben_vulpes: waaay over my pay grade
ben_vulpes: oh dear
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^ you got quoted.
asciilifeform: i bet that hovel is listed for 100kbux
asciilifeform: at least.
asciilifeform: 'because if it were less, rabid asciilifeforms could show up and buy'em and THEN wat do'
mircea_popescu: you can call!
asciilifeform: mas tamaño, mas sabor !!11 (tm)(r)(subj)
mircea_popescu: sam knows.
asciilifeform: i'd rather buy that dump in timis
asciilifeform: the one with the piss
mircea_popescu: which was that ?
asciilifeform: cement thing full of rubbish that we ran into on a walk
mircea_popescu: no shortage of those in timisoara.
asciilifeform: as folx unzipped & pissed, asciilifeform immediately thought 'perhaps THIS is the mythical Cheap Real Estate'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you gotta see what goes for 300k in cr
ben_vulpes: "we'll even throw this shitty kia in for another 10k!"
mircea_popescu: seems ~miami-like tbh.
asciilifeform: as for the cr photos -- i gotta admit, buenos aires looked like a civilized city, esp in contrast. whereas cr looks moar like what asciilifeform imagined 'banana republic' when reading as a child.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: 300k buys a cr palace compared to pdx hovel
mircea_popescu: ironically, while cr is in fact just about that, it has better services than argentina. or the us, for the most part.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes portland is "urban".
ben_vulpes: nfi what property goes for in miami, utterly uninterested in fl.
asciilifeform: which services would these be ? maybe we oughta compare mircea_popescu's part/join ticker vs his time in ar
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's not terribly expensive, let's put it that way. not a steal either.
asciilifeform: what's better in cr ? rubbish disposal?
ben_vulpes deeply suspicious of steals in any case
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whores. restaurants. clubs. bars. you name it -- anything that dun has to do with govertnment.
mircea_popescu: supermarket here regularly has 3-4 people working at bagging / ferrying my groceries to car when i visit.
ben_vulpes: is it typically piped sewage or septic?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ever told you about the time i traded color tv set for flat in condo ?
ben_vulpes: lolno amazing
mircea_popescu: yeah. sold for i dun recall, 30k i think a few years later.
mircea_popescu: anyway, all piped, the grades are insane.
ben_vulpes: ohyeah also how is computronium procurement pipeline in cr?
mircea_popescu: amazon delivers.
mircea_popescu: how is it in portland ?
ben_vulpes: civilization, sounds like
ben_vulpes: with mangoes!
mircea_popescu: did i tell you about rthe mango-pineapple jam i made ?
ben_vulpes: no, do
mircea_popescu: plus cane sugar and fresh vanilla bean. very strong femobedience aura.
mircea_popescu: but in other wtfs, meteorologists report it already rained here 30% more than average for the whole month.
mircea_popescu: !!key wernii
deedbot: Not registered.
shinohai: Ricardo
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shinohai: O wau I CAN PRINT MONEY!!!!!
ben_vulpes: grade a brochureware
mircea_popescu: he doubles every day ? since when, a coupla months ago ?
shinohai: vaya pyes
shinohai: Obviously, all that Bitcoin hasn't allowed him to afford courses in say, web design.
mircea_popescu: maybe he's just emulating me.
ben_vulpes: holy shit mx revolutions are going for five hundred dollars
shinohai: These idiots revolutionize everything.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: mx revolution was the only mouse that i ever actually liked
ben_vulpes: upteen-zillion configurable buttons, and two scrolly-bits
ben_vulpes: mind you i developed this opinion when i lived in illustrator indesign and friends
shinohai: Oh ... my bad ben_vulpes .... I saw `mx` and immediately thought "Mexican Revolution"
shinohai: When you refered to an object of the hardware variety.
ben_vulpes: hey if i could buy a revolution in usa for 5 grand i would
shinohai: I'd chip in!
ben_vulpes: right who wouldn't
shinohai: Fuck, I imagine MP would fund the whole thing and tell us all to keep our bits to purchase popcorn with.
mircea_popescu: want a good $item find an old $item final age of glorious socialism is upon us huh.
ben_vulpes: truf.
ben_vulpes: covered this in g5 and honda threads tho
ben_vulpes: in other holy shits i never knew: "jfli A descendent of Rich Hickey’s pre-Clojure work on the JVM."
shinohai: !!up JonDough
deedbot: JonDough voiced for 30 minutes.
JonDough: thx. Got little to say though. I may use lots of words, but
shinohai: Not enouygh apparently
shinohai: *enough
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659494 << the thing with the detentless wheel ?!
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 21:26 ben_vulpes: shinohai: mx revolution was the only mouse that i ever actually liked
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 21:27 ben_vulpes: mind you i developed this opinion when i lived in illustrator indesign and friends
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659503 << sad thing is, mice weren't built to last
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 21:30 mircea_popescu: want a good $item find an old $item final age of glorious socialism is upon us huh.
asciilifeform: clicker is good for couplea yrs, typically
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659265 << has this ever not been the case, ever since the demise of mel ? << fair enough.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 18:48 mod6: i.e. is the compiler adding bloat that you didn't expect?
asciilifeform: ( often you can desolder and replace, but 1) good luck sourcing the exact part 2) you'll never get the legs back on properly )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/ << plox to share with whatever not-dumb people you might know.
shinohai looks at contact list, finds few not0dumb people outside this forum.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/05/19/the-oppressiveness-of-the-casual-dress-code/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The oppressiveness of the casual dress code.
asciilifeform listens for the sound of atlases shrugging
mircea_popescu: why the fuck anyone would be on a "committee" is beyond my meagre imaginative powers.
asciilifeform: for money, presumably
asciilifeform: though i can think of slightly cleaner ways to earn bread
asciilifeform no longer on any committee, for looong time nao
mircea_popescu: it never pays anything afaik.
mircea_popescu: somehow twisted "ethics" into justifying the practice.
asciilifeform: doesn't directly pay, no
mircea_popescu: "oh, you mean you want me to work for $institution for free ?" "yes, it's prestige!!! you realising any portion of the value you add would make the value you add worth less--for us!"
mircea_popescu: oh i see then...
asciilifeform: but often is voluntary-mandatory ritual
mircea_popescu: if i consult as to what stupid whore random idiot should not marry, i expect him to pay for the fucking drinks.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/ << Trilema - Time to get out, by the way.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: 'As time marches on and you start to earn more income and you buy a few more t-shirts, a single polo shirt, new jeans, and some Nike runners – but it’s never quite enough. The fashions are changing too quickly and what you wore before soon looks dated and passe..' << dafuq
asciilifeform: didja have the woman write this post, pete_dushenski , or wat
mircea_popescu: !!up juscamarena
deedbot: juscamarena voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, /me was at very upscale italian place today, fine food, good service, one large table (16 people). all men. no women. ALL wore jeans. which prompted to look around. EVERY MALE THERE wore jeans. some, ouright denim+timberlands construction yard fare.
mircea_popescu: from what the girls report, the prevalence of adult male who owns nothing beyond jeans and tshirts is 30% or more.
juscamarena: yo,bamb0u is like the dumbest follower of you that I know of, pretty funny to watch him babble around haha
mircea_popescu: i have an follower ?
asciilifeform: !#s bamb0u
mircea_popescu: oh with the slack. right.
asciilifeform: dun look like we got one here aha
juscamarena: he basically thinks you're a god :)
mircea_popescu: my girls think the same!
shinohai: I need one of those, my local store doesn't have. Must manufacture myself I suppose.
mircea_popescu: not so hard to make ; purchase parts separately -- some assembly necessary.
shinohai: The assembly is the best part! :D
mircea_popescu: entirely unsurprisingly, adriana salerno aka https://www.bates.edu/mathematics/faculty-staff/salerno-adriana-j/ is some random whore from venezuela who a) has no research to show for the food and board "patriarchy" gave her and b) wishes to scold people who fed and clothe her for free because "they aren't doing enough", while she herself is not catching first flight back to caracas to be raped into the dirt like all the othe
mircea_popescu: r ~exactly identical dumb whores who didn't have the chance / utter and unmitigated priviledge of being picked out of the gutter by self-hating libertard.
shinohai: Sounds like a female thestringpuller
mircea_popescu: it's only priviledge when that guy has it!!1
mircea_popescu: (bates, fwiw, is a "liberal arts" place. not sure why they pretend to a math dept.)
mircea_popescu: but recently been getting major $$$ from all the pantsuit supports desperately trying to avoid outright dekulakization.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when i read that thing the other day, thought 'genius trollage'
mircea_popescu: as per my lights, genuine dumb broad braying her stuff.
asciilifeform: 'heighten the contradictions', 'widen the cracks', etc, bring nearer the ovens.
mircea_popescu: i'm not particularly against. very little more amusing than obviously tenner-a-blowjob latinos derping about how they found some loser and hurr durr.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: configurably detenting!
mircea_popescu: for what it's worth, married whore fare is always one of two : either how much money her husband is making, or how little say he has in things and matters.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i must not have seen that one
ben_vulpes: besides, once one learns to use a non-detenting wheel, detents are offensive.
ben_vulpes slowly grinding away from mice in any case
mircea_popescu: what do you use, stickshifts ?
asciilifeform: i dun have smoothscrolling on my boxen, ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: detents or bust.
mircea_popescu: what is detent ?
ben_vulpes: one click one line?
mircea_popescu: you cliock for scroll ?!
asciilifeform does not use mouse particularly often, but expects it to work correctly when picked up
ben_vulpes: click of scroll wheel, mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: why, to mac third button ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that also. detent keeps wheel from turning while you press on it
ben_vulpes: scroll wheel itself clicks as you spin it omfg you troll
asciilifeform: why, mircea_popescu , where do you keep 3rd button
mircea_popescu: i have nfi, i never push down the wheels. why would i
asciilifeform: paste ?
mircea_popescu: that's kbd no ?
asciilifeform: b/w terminals
asciilifeform: whole point of mouse, neh
mircea_popescu: well in terminals it's ctrl-6 alt / ctrl-k or w/e
mircea_popescu: i'm confused. what ?
asciilifeform: that pisses ~into~ the term
asciilifeform: sometimes this is unacceptable
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "faggtos"
asciilifeform: purpose of mouse is 1) terminal scrollback 2) surgically lifting text, e.g., eggogs, out of terminal 3) cad
mircea_popescu: i pgup the terminal. i generally don't use the mouse to select text, except in some circumstances, and even then only to land. ctrl-arrow etc toi actually select. and i dun much cad, nor can i stand it.
asciilifeform: good thing there's a few folx who can stand it
mircea_popescu: i suppose i don't actually use the mouse that much huh
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform good inded.
mircea_popescu: i think if i cad;d mnuch i;d get a pen though.
asciilifeform: fwiw i dun pick it up for most of day
ben_vulpes: way upstack, asciilifeform didja see the hickey pre-clojure "jfli" stuff?
asciilifeform: pen is great, i have a recent wacom here, but software support is ~nil
mircea_popescu: part of why can't stand it.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: armedbear?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: it was well-known, suffered from same problems as his later crackpottery
asciilifeform: fuck jvm with rusty shovel.
ben_vulpes: that being?
ben_vulpes: well yes, jvm a shit.
asciilifeform: no exception handling, no restarts, jvm barf on eggog
asciilifeform: not retrofittable, either.
ben_vulpes: abcl will drop one into a debugger
ben_vulpes: and does not do restarts and condition handling? that i have not yet verified myself
asciilifeform: i see 0 reason to bother making silk purse from the sow.
asciilifeform: let the sow go.
ben_vulpes: eh, man needs a shovel to take care of shitpile.
asciilifeform: i dun need jvm for anything whatsoever.
ben_vulpes: lucky you
asciilifeform: !#s armed bear
asciilifeform: pretty sure we had thread
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42 << oblig, and still gathering butthurtz 8yrs later
ben_vulpes: eh, i find it funny that he went from doing stuff in cl to the clojure fingertrap
ben_vulpes: not surprising, but funny
asciilifeform: wanted to 'modernize', hipsterize, embrace an' extend, have-followers, komyoonity, 'governance', rubberchickenconferences
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/05/ryan-x-charles-goes-to-clearance-bin-for-latest-spam-as-service-offering/ << Qntra - Ryan X Charles Goes To Clearance Bin For Latest Spam As Service Offering
ben_vulpes: he dun even attend anymore
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659234 << Switch to "summer gas" has deadline by end of month, so refineries coming back from maintenance downtime
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 17:46 ben_vulpes: in other peak oil news, fuel inventories filling again.
mircea_popescu: such a weird thing to want.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659287 << No such thing as permafrost, in every direction from myself jawbones of "Edestus shark" are found suggesting my present location was once ocean floor
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 18:58 ben_vulpes: and then it flooded because you didn't actually call the actuaries and ask how likely the permafrost was to melt in the next millino years
mircea_popescu: i can't explain it outside of fundamental alienation. dude can't pick up in bars like normal people, figures he wants this crap ?\
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659329 << AHA, traditional rule of thumb is from batch of seeds germination rate decreases ~10% per year of storage (give or take)
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 19:15 asciilifeform: dna rots 'in situ', while not being copied, just as in the usual process.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659349 << Aha, meanwhile SU's "cultural marxism" slow poison continues beyond SU's grave
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 19:43 asciilifeform: 'unsexy', slow, 'boring' methods, e.g. mcdonaldization
mircea_popescu: no stupid idea ever died yet.
BingoBoingo: polybutalene piping did
BingoBoingo: In very rare case
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/QTnBx/?raw=true << mod6 , phf , ave1 , et al : most recent ffa
asciilifeform: still well under 1000 ln.
asciilifeform: ( half of which is header )
mircea_popescu: i thought i fixed that ?
shinohai reopens page
shinohai: aha! I opened the page before being called outside to survey the garden.
shinohai: Seems you did pruning of your own!
mircea_popescu: well, ben_vulpes beat you to it.
shinohai: The glorious Republic, where many eyes will ensure not a single spelling snafu goes unnoticed.
mircea_popescu: might be the most-read text. seeing how people actually read.
mod6: asciilifeform: thanks!
mod6: new ffa compiles
trinque: publishing a fake fix that wrapped it in yet another layer of ransomware would be top trolling.
shinohai: !!up mav11
deedbot: mav11 voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: rich hickey is a common lisper, i met him at philly ete back when the language was still in flux, and thought that his pedigree is going to be a benefit to the system that he's trying to build. not so. he made similar rationalization to gosling "such and such feature is complicated for the end lusers, so i decided we're not going to support it" re readtables, exception, proper type hierarchy, etc.
mircea_popescu: wtf does this "end user ease" bs come from anyway.
mircea_popescu: how do they have sex, these people ? "this part of the penis she might feel, please ablate" ?
phf: i suspect thinking is "i can trick her into having sex with me, by making myself bland and non-threatening"
mircea_popescu: "we support urethra-only penis ; easier for end user, plus more octopus compatible this way too!"
mircea_popescu: holy shit, you're right aren't you.
mircea_popescu: "if it dun feel like much of a fuck, she might sit put a turn."
asciilifeform: vampire bat cock lol
phf: “P: A programming language for asynchrony, fault-tolerance and uncertainty (microsoft.com)” cc asciilifeform
mod6: !up moli_
mod6: !!up moli_
deedbot: moli_ voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: phf: and tmsr is a thorium molten salt reactor, dun forget.
asciilifeform: and an australian rock band.
asciilifeform: and i fughet what else.
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659495 << i'm using a mouse with 1 button and even that's too many buttons. mouse just needs to point; keyboard can click.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 21:27 ben_vulpes: upteen-zillion configurable buttons, and two scrolly-bits
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D4D6639A2284B17CBCAC69E9DCFF7FA528B73CD98FD8AFA6770053ECD72EC7E9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1032...9853 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.231.198 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.231.198 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D4D6639A2284B17CBCAC69E9DCFF7FA528B73CD98FD8AFA6770053ECD72EC7E9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1024...8989 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.231.198 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.231.198 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8A41C72E132CA27C714CCBB891B3E0FB2599ADD962AA0B016016A35D597E6DEC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1223...6897 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '112.16.68.44 (ssh-rsa key from 112.16.68.44 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8A41C72E132CA27C714CCBB891B3E0FB2599ADD962AA0B016016A35D597E6DEC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1020...5183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '112.16.68.44 (ssh-rsa key from 112.16.68.44 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/88FF39F5C93A6DA366B8B6C3C28699D4787489C0F3C0EB0D45AF999D9D6809FC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1020...5183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.249.251.162 (ssh-rsa key from 183.249.251.162 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/88FF39F5C93A6DA366B8B6C3C28699D4787489C0F3C0EB0D45AF999D9D6809FC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1226...2807 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.249.251.162 (ssh-rsa key from 183.249.251.162 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D4D6639A2284B17CBCAC69E9DCFF7FA528B73CD98FD8AFA6770053ECD72EC7E9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1032...9853 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.231.198 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.231.198 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3D39768DC3697D89650029AA98422A7B114356E890AA3879B03F8A4B277EF854 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1032...9853 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.229.185 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.229.185 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3D39768DC3697D89650029AA98422A7B114356E890AA3879B03F8A4B277EF854 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1250...3197 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.229.185 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.229.185 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US)
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