Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-09-26 | 2016-09-28 → ↓
trinque lols, but knows not why
trinque: this "female violence" theory is only applicable insofar as it describes something women do in the total absence of functioning males
trinque: as such ought not be discussed as any sort of cause of the thing.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone (of the married with children contingent) know what braxton hicks contractions are ?
mircea_popescu: and now back to the issue : human sexuality is an intertwined ball of yarn, with layer upon layer of complex mechanisms driven over many years by the erosion of evolution. just plain obstetrics holds plenty of mysteries to the average folk (quick, what's cervical effacement ?), and so wide sweeping, far reaching discussions of third and above degree effects, such as the social behaviour of "war" are bound to be pretty nonsens
mircea_popescu: but yes, by and large men will fight "for" women. cuz for what the fuck else, aliens ?
BingoBoingo: LIZARDS!
BingoBoingo: Anyways, a bit on the meta-Lafondiverse http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=5306
mircea_popescu: "when he finds out his lead used the company gas card to drive a mini-bus full of whores to Ocean City" dude who the fuck would be upset over this ?
BingoBoingo: Still people suck at evaluating risk and severity. People get all panicked because there's a wee bit of nutsedge in their lawn, it's bruise. At the same time they'll ignore the bermudagrass taking over, and that shit is stage IV lawn cancer.
mircea_popescu: seriously now. what fucking trite boring nitwits are these ?
BingoBoingo: Rabbinical sheep?
mircea_popescu: dude if the company can't afford to ferry some women to the designated fuckbeach it should be rolled up anyway.
BingoBoingo: Some bipeds don't know how to budget, yet still try to business. Very sick fact, but fact.
mircea_popescu: and then ~they~ look down on the whores.
BingoBoingo: Well its the blub thing. They don't grok the more srs bsns.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 603.0, vol: 4310.52045643 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 607.731, vol: 3491.65003 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 608.01, vol: 3300.92455516 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 605.388238, vol: 302459.10790000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 606.99, vol: 736.81062458 | Volume-weighted last average: 605.412800565
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency rmb
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 4040.81, vol: 302475.77190000 | Volume-weighted last average: 4040.81
BingoBoingo: !!up th3nolo
deedbot: th3nolo voiced for 30 minutes.
th3nolo: thanks..
BingoBoingo: Introduce yourself. Who is your daddy and what does he do?
th3nolo: is you and you are chatting right now with me ?
th3nolo: my *daddy
BingoBoingo: Well that complicate things. I'm only at step 3. There's still six more steps before I can make amends for not knowing you existed.
BingoBoingo: !~step9
jhvh1: 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
BingoBoingo: Anyways register a key, give someone a reason to rate you and you can !!up yourself eventually
BingoBoingo: th3nolo: Many have tried to find and easier, softer way, but they could not. With all the earnestness at you command register a GPG key and welcome to the future.
th3nolo: i'm doing that..
BingoBoingo: Also buy a plant. If after one year the plant is thriving you may buy a dog. If after one year it is thriving you may think about starting a srs bsns.
BingoBoingo: And remember that faith without works (for the Republic) is dead.
BingoBoingo: !!up th3nolo
deedbot: th3nolo voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: brb, sleep
BingoBoingo: If you wait patiently another peer will be with you shortly. IRC is contrary to popular misconceptions a slow medium, but within 24 hours you should recieve a reply so direct your inqueries.
BingoBoingo: And type the string into your chatbox: !~ty
th3nolo: !-ty
th3nolo: !~ty
jhvh1: You are very welcome Daddy
th3nolo: oh.
th3nolo: for the advice
mircea_popescu: lmao BingoBoingo stop hassling noobs omaygerd
thestringpuller: !~seen jurov
jhvh1: thestringpuller: jurov was last seen in #trilema 2 days, 18 hours, 3 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <jurov> phf: zero width is prolly okay, negative-width-joiner would be illegal
thestringpuller: damn. he sick again?
thestringpuller: poor guy.
mircea_popescu: you know people can go a coupla days being busy with, eg, a new lover, a dead family member, buying a new piece of real estate / boat / etcetera.
thestringpuller: seems that way
thestringpuller: hi davout o/
davout: ohai
thestringpuller: how's retirement?
davout: pretty good actually, got my residence permit today
davout: which kinda looks like a badly forged drivers license a 20-yo ustard would use to go have drinks
thestringpuller: oh nice! so just chillin' for now? a break is good every now and then.
asciilifeform: aaaah and i think i found a bug in a111
asciilifeform: it refused to log 'oversized' turd at all
asciilifeform: shows up (cut off, inside 'mircea_popescu would tell us which room to enter next')
asciilifeform: in Framedragger's log
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-27: [13:14:42] <asciilifeform> ACTION woke up from dream where we had 4th conf. this time, at mircea_popescu's house, which turned out to be a gigantic repurposed office park, wunderwaffen in every room, even the nazi 'Glocke' neutron generator; we sat in a great hall and drank mead and thanked odin for the gift of valour; then went to the tank room and each pulled gigantic sea
scriba: slugs, shaped like various animals, e.g., pig, out of a tank, and by the choice mircea_p
asciilifeform: there, now it is in both logs, if only like this...
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://archive.is/cgpZD >> 'This botnet with 145607 cameras/dvr (1-30Mbps per IP) is able to send >1.5Tbps DDoS. Type: tcp/ack, tcp/ack+psh, tcp/syn.'
asciilifeform: USE MOAR TCP
asciilifeform: GIVE MOAR TO ALLCOMERZ
asciilifeform: SYN! SYN!SYN!SYN!SYN! http://oglaf.com/humans
mircea_popescu: loller alfie
mircea_popescu: fwiw i see ACTION with the first glyph rendered as 0001
asciilifeform: aha also
mircea_popescu: ohv, possibly the world's shittiest host in terms of all the spam/abuse/assorted crap they push out.
phf: so that ^AACTION is actually how irc encodes /me's
mircea_popescu: / goes out as ^A
phf: so there's at least two bugs happening here :) somehow it's missing from btcbase and Framedragger's znc (or is it the python bot) is leaking ACTION marks
mircea_popescu: cuz generally you're supposed to replace ^A with eg *
phf: well, if Framedragger is still parsing the znc logs, then znc does it for you. it'll be <foo> blah, or * foo blah or somesuch
mircea_popescu: a leading example implementation of asciilifeform 's point re "ascii is like naked people"
phf: btcbase actually parses ACTION messages and turns the record into message-self
phf: (it's possible the message is missing for other reasons though, that's on august 27th, i.e. the day when i left for burn and btcbase was being spammed to oblivion)
asciilifeform: phf: message in question was sent ~hour ago.
asciilifeform: not aug 27.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that glocke bs is something else. seriously, rando pole came up with some nutty shit in 2000 and the murican joseph smiths ran with it ?
mircea_popescu: "red mercury" y compris ?
mircea_popescu: the humanity.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh you're looking at the nato snow job
asciilifeform: (granted we dun have the actual facts, beyond a landing manifest from buenos aires in '45 where germans unloaded ~something massive~ from a 6-engined monster junkers. but the 'red mercury', 'alien corpses', etc. are what the disinfo folk spray onto anything they dun want in the literature.)
mircea_popescu: well, the origin is a single report from a pole (ie, nato) who is a literal re-enaction of historical mormon guy.
mircea_popescu: literally, the angel moroni showed him some sikrit documents ?
mircea_popescu: im surprised no seer stones in a hat were involved.
asciilifeform: if he'd mentioned those, mircea_popescu would see it for the redmercury sprayjob it was.
asciilifeform: at any rate, it does not stretch the bounds of the plausible that germany had a clumsy, bulky neutron source.
mircea_popescu: so which part of the nonsense is part of your accepted reconstruction ? i don't imagine sponeaneous margerinization of plant matter for a 150 to 200 m radius makes it in?
mircea_popescu: ~undirected~ neutron source ?
mircea_popescu: also, the effects described aren't quite what neutron beams do.
asciilifeform: forget the pole !
mircea_popescu: then tell the story.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: are you familiar with real-life neutron tube ? didja think it is ~directed~ ?!
mircea_popescu: it's a tube dood not a fucking bell.
asciilifeform: if you have a directed one, you can turn that $B into $2B right now.
mircea_popescu: look. what source of neutrons do you have in mind other than a linear accelerator ?
asciilifeform: in point of fact there are two (not counting the small kind you can make on your desk right now out of a smoke detector and beryllium sheet) in commercial use
asciilifeform: one is the accelerator
asciilifeform: other is farnsworth's.
asciilifeform: this is kindergarten material. (granted, it was not in '45)
asciilifeform: neither gives you a directed beam.
asciilifeform: interestingly.
mircea_popescu: well it'd help if you said that. ie, "a clumsy, bulky fusor" not "a clumsy, bulky neutron source"
mircea_popescu: anyway. yes it wouldn't stretch the bounds of the plausible, seeing how eg tesla was dicking around with high electrostatic potentials for his principal entertainment.
mircea_popescu: now, if they managed to source a megawatt, which seems dubious, and if they managed to get the usual 10^5 power loss, which seems also dubious, even if we grant they had the concept 30 years early, then it follows that they might have made 100 watt worth of neutron source.
asciilifeform: fwiw, armchair archaeology of german physics is complicated by the fact that in '45 everyone who was anyone in that wot was jumping out of his shirt to market himself to the americans with fanciful legend
asciilifeform: it does not however follow that german physics was all vapourware. it was not - turned into the engineering works of the 50s.
mircea_popescu: well sure, but there's a difference between the Vs, which actually did land in london, and in abundance bordering on public nuisance
mircea_popescu: and mysterious single-reference bells.
asciilifeform: plenty of junk gets made in qty==1 and forgotten. but if it's bulky and expensive, and, bonus, makes for picturesque workplace fatalities, it can take on a second life in crackpot archaeology.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't seem likely the device they might have built would have killed much of anyone ; moreover the story of "fatalties" is how pubescent males always tend to lend a shrowd of cool to their fantasious fabrications.
asciilifeform: the reason i regard the matter of the bell interesting at all, is that the very same disinfo tactics are in use by modern usg.
mircea_popescu: im sure the journalist had a bunch of girlfriends "that died" back when he was 13.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: one dude who eats a beam can magnify, with passage of time and armchair, into 'many liquid corpses' etc.
mircea_popescu: especially given that it REALLY helps the story, "oh, last summer i went to this secret palace where all the girls are 19 and spend the whole day nude. unfortunately they all died. curse of the nudist palace."
asciilifeform: el dorados were moar fun when you could still hide'em in unpainted section of the map.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform any idea why it would be that fucking big ? you don't really gain much by making the outer cage 3 meters wide.
asciilifeform: shield.
asciilifeform: same reason modern reactor is a pig.
mircea_popescu: i thought this thing killed people.
mircea_popescu: through a meter thick shield ? how ?
asciilifeform: through the business end ?
mircea_popescu: ugh. so 5 out of 7 people who made it accidentally looked down the barrel ?
mircea_popescu: how stupid are these nazis again ?
asciilifeform: again we're touching the electric wire of the mormon cover.
mircea_popescu: so it wouldn't stretch the bounds of the plausible if the nazis had an early, low efficiency, fusor-like thing ; which would have been no larger than a doberman ; and so isn't related to either some random polish dude's fantasies of "my village is special - look, that mountainside, is where thor sat down!" or whatever argentina landing bills.
mircea_popescu is fully satisfied with "precious metals" explanation re that, fwiw.
asciilifeform: since it was not obvious, i will point out, 'nazi bell' is a ~proverbial~ object, with some basis in factual history, sorta like the cross of jizzus etc.
asciilifeform: not an actual item i expect to find in mircea_popescu's closet if we go drinkin'
mircea_popescu: wasn't obvious at all, i spent an hour this morning wading through pseudoscience swamp because of you!
asciilifeform: ftr, my own digs led me to the hypothesis that germany had, contrary to american official legend, a considerably cheaper method of refining U than the idiot calutron, as early as '43
mircea_popescu: anyway. my fault for not keeping current on physical crackpottery i guess
asciilifeform: and that much of the squid ink we see on subj, then and now, is to obscure the how, who, and what.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this theory is altogether dubious because one of the richest u fields in all of europe was in romania, cvasi-native u-in-quartz deposits. which went unbothered until the 50s, when the soviets dug them up.
mircea_popescu: !!up rAISellers
deedbot: rAISellers voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: U is really not uncommon.
asciilifeform: 'rich fields' only became interesting when the demand shot up.
mircea_popescu: i dunno. maybe.
asciilifeform: sorta like petroleum.
mircea_popescu: however - the easy access petroleum, as well as copper, iron etc was hit first.
mircea_popescu: so you'd have expected them to ; romania was an ally after all ; and they did hit the oilfields.
asciilifeform: aha, and the places there the water was yellow from the U, were mined first, correct
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-27#1548932 << braxton hicks are a pre-labor contractions that are painful and annoying to the woman, can start up to a couple months before actual labor, sort of an on-again, off-again random contraction at various intervals (contrast with actual contractions which come at a steady rate and build in intensity)
a111: Logged on 2016-09-27 04:01 mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone (of the married with children contingent) know what braxton hicks contractions are ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL word. you can also induce them through masturbation ; and the process can result in a slight increase in amniotic fluid.
PeterL: useful to know, I guess
mircea_popescu: can come in handy, if you're for instance repressing men-talking-about-women-and-society-their-own-way.
rAISellers: $register 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how's that work
mircea_popescu: rAISellers use !!register
rAISellers: !!register 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A
deedbot: Import failed for 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the whole thing was centered around "third and above degree effects, such as the social behaviour of "war""
phf: asciilifeform: oh you're right
mircea_popescu: rAISellers did you send it to sks server ?
mircea_popescu: trinque any hoap for wotpaste pubkey to deedbot directly ?
mircea_popescu: im getting sick of advertising mit and friends.
asciilifeform: feel free to make'em dump key into phuctor
asciilifeform: and use /download/KEY
asciilifeform: it isn't decentralized by any means, though, boring old medieval central box.
asciilifeform: but at least then it'll be in 2 places, vs 1, and neither'll be sks.
trinque: asciilifeform: actually I could fart them over to you as I receive.
trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah, I'll hammer that out momentarily
trinque: the thing's going through a major cleaving process, nearly done
trinque: logbot-wot, logbot-deedbot, logbot-wallet, so on.
mircea_popescu: but yeah, mutual masturbation with phuctor not a bad idea, if it can be done somehow so it doesn't make the ensemble more friable.
trinque: background cron that flips a "sent_to_phuctor" bit
asciilifeform: what'll mircea_popescu do with folks who get phuctored ?
mircea_popescu: what'd i do ?
asciilifeform: well this is perhaps the wrong question.
asciilifeform: what's to be done with'em ?
asciilifeform: they are, by any reasonable logic, 'dead' already. just need burial.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, pretend not to notice, see who tries to scam you ? eat their babies for desert ?
asciilifeform: there is not, and imho cannot be, a pleasant endgame for dude who gets his wot key publicly popped.
asciilifeform: the focus oughta be on avoiding being in said position to begin with.
asciilifeform: (and all else equal, it is better for a key to 'die' earlier in life than later.)
asciilifeform: keyholder has moar years of life left to invest in building up reputation of a replacement key ?
mircea_popescu: there are no absolutes here. better and worse are entirely undefined.
rAISellers: !!register 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A
asciilifeform: 'better' in the sense that it is better to have one's hdd and backups burn down when you're 14 y.o. than when you're 60.
deedbot: Import failed for 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A.
mircea_popescu: depends. at 14 you prolly care about all the nude classmates you got there.
mircea_popescu: rAISellers but did you send it to the sks servers ?
asciilifeform: 14yo still has the nude classmates to take new photos of.
rAISellers: mircea_popescu I think so, did not sync yet or something like that...
mircea_popescu: aite give it a half hour or such
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe. somehow subjectively this is never perceived the same way.
asciilifeform: subjectivity is a bitch like that. e.g. to 5yo being 'grounded' for month is rather like the idea of year in jail for a 50yo
asciilifeform: subjectively.
asciilifeform: while we're on the subject, there may be merit in deedbotting a lamport-style one-shot public key for the event of an 'asteroid' (serious number-theoretic breakthrough, or the like)
asciilifeform: (with which to sign a new conventional pubkey if such a thing were to come.)
asciilifeform: would also have a secondary 'fleet in being' effect
mircea_popescu: or c-s for that matter.
asciilifeform: multiple systems in general.
shinohai: !!up rAISellers
deedbot: rAISellers voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: but i mention lamport specifically because it does not rely on number-theoretical conjecture (on the other hand, hashing relies on ????????? for hardness...)
mod6: <+asciilifeform> feel free to make'em dump key into phuctor << very cool
asciilifeform: anyway here is a simple, 'low-tech' lamport-style scheme. let K be my current pgp key; J be a future, continuity-of-life key in some yet-undiscovered system ;
asciilifeform: H is a hashing function.
asciilifeform: at time T, i deedbot Ksign(H(S)), where S is a lengthy random string.
asciilifeform: at time T1, when i wish to invoke the continuity, i :
asciilifeform: deedbot H(S+J)
rAISellers: !!register 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A
deedbot: Import failed for 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A.
asciilifeform: at time T2, i deedbot J
asciilifeform: at time T3, i reveal, and deedbot, S.
asciilifeform: scheme relies strictly on the strength of H (and integrity of the blockchain...)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : see if you can find a simpler variant.
asciilifeform: note, J can even be another pgp/rsa key, if you are insuring against merely a 'key costs $100M and takes 5years to break' scenario, rather than catastrophic rsacalypse
mircea_popescu: hang on a sec im writing up this horrid movie.
asciilifeform: if K is broken publicly, or privately by the enemy, any time ~after~ T, the breaker (or anyone who learns the privkey) can try to endeedbot his own Ksign(H(S)) for his own S
asciilifeform: but these are to be rejected by the verifier if the latter can locate an earlier Ksign(H(S)).
asciilifeform: which is why for such a scheme to work, it would have to be agreed-upon in advance by the participants.
asciilifeform: perhaps this is obvious from my description, but i have learned that it sometimes helps to restate the obvious.
asciilifeform: at any rate, it is not difficult to generalize this scheme into a wide variety of 'parachutes'
asciilifeform: (incl. multiple hash algos)
asciilifeform: where you demonstrate that you knew Kpriv and a secret S at time T, and at some time T+i you show that 'he who knew S at time T now wishes to use key J for everyday life.'
rAISellers: !!register 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A
deedbot: Import failed for 815D59A3002D6A44F8DB493CA167734DD954024A.
shinohai: Weird why he hasn't been seen yet, his key imported to keyserver
shinohai: !!up rAISellers
trinque: I'm doing the paste-import thing. patience rAISellers
trinque: oh boy, here comes the tornado
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for one thing, unpublished key is a simpler variant. create secret key K, salt-and-hash K, publish K. at later point divulge K. verification is one step and passive for you.
shinohai: !~weather
shinohai: bwahahahaha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this works if your K is known in advance
mircea_popescu: known by me.
asciilifeform: i did say 'key J for a possibly yet-undiscovered cryptosystem'
mircea_popescu: this doesn't matter so much, future cryptosystem will be made on the basis of rng ; rng can work with pubkey as entropy source.
mircea_popescu: ie all cryptosystems reduce to hash fucntion
asciilifeform: if you divulged the seed, you divulged the privkey
mircea_popescu: nono, look :
mircea_popescu: t1 : i make rsa key K ; don't share it with anyone. i publish hash(salt+pubkey.K)
shinohai: !~weather
jhvh1: stormy with a chance of packeting
mircea_popescu: t2 : rsa is destroyed
mircea_popescu: t2+epsilon : i publish key J in cryptosystem ? which was created with entropy = privkey.K
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here's the lethal boojum: enemy knows privkey.K at t2 and if he can get to his keyboard before you get to yours, you're dead
mircea_popescu: at t2+epsilon, everyone can verify K-J continuity ; at t2 only breaker of rsa can verify.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but he has to also break the salted hash
asciilifeform: or hm, if it's an unpublished key, he does not. but how did you link it with your actual key
mircea_popescu: which is why yours and this are equivalent (they depend on the strength of has function)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform by deedobtting hash(salt+pubkey.K)
asciilifeform: ah in this case with the usual meaning of deedbot, 'sign with wot key'
mircea_popescu: in this scheme, hash has to be epsilon-strong and that's all.
asciilifeform: anyway this is ~= earlier algo, just with one fewer step
mircea_popescu: q was for simpler neh.
asciilifeform: though i am still unclear on how mircea_popescu's verification works
asciilifeform: say he published his J. now what do i do.
mircea_popescu: i publish k, you a) verify it hash-salts to same value and b) encrypt to it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i get that part
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but how do i verify that J belongs to mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: because the only one who could make j is the one who at t1 owned privkey.L
mircea_popescu: privkey.K*
asciilifeform: gimme an algo
mircea_popescu: what do you want, like a c implementation ?
asciilifeform: i can use to determine, for some input J, whether it belongs to the fella who has priv.K.
asciilifeform: no, just pseudo
asciilifeform: recall, we don't know anything about the cryptosystem J is a pubkey for.
mircea_popescu: well how would i know, right. it'd depend on that.
asciilifeform: it is just a string of bits, for the purposes of this gedankenexperiment.
asciilifeform: and we want the algo specifically not to depend on how Jsystem works.
mircea_popescu: so if ? has a encrypt() and decrypt() which seems like a safe proposition
asciilifeform: but to permit ~any~ Jsystem and ~any~ J in advance.
mircea_popescu: and if it further has a create-key() which seems more dubious, but is it allowable ?
asciilifeform: ok, can haz algo? i found a string J, which is a public key for an asymmetric cryptosystem, that purports to belong to mircea_popescu, and published after the rsacalypse. what do i do with it.
asciilifeform: i have the deedbotted hash(salt+pubkey.K) to work with
mircea_popescu: then at t2+epsilon when i publish k you extract privkey.K from it and check that J was made by create-key(privkey.K_
asciilifeform: so you published both halves of the k keypair, correct ?
asciilifeform: public and private /
mircea_popescu: well no, i just publish the fingerprint. as per t2 = rsa broken, it then follows one can extract privkey.K from K
asciilifeform: fair'nuff, rsa died
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/florence-foster-jenkins/ << Trilema - Florence Foster Jenkins
asciilifeform: how does mircea_popescu retain sole knowledge of the private key of J ?
asciilifeform: if J is made wholesale from privkey.K
mircea_popescu: i don't. the point is to prove K-J continuity , not to retain sole control of J
mircea_popescu: can add J' in same message, signed by J for instance.
mircea_popescu: this is, again, a very epsilon affair.
asciilifeform: by WHICH J
asciilifeform: anyone can make their own J'
mircea_popescu: J = create-key(privkey.K)
asciilifeform: and they are all equally poppycock if the private key of J is publicly known
asciilifeform: which in the given algo, it is.
mircea_popescu: it's not publicly known until i publish.
mircea_popescu: ie, until t2+epsilon
asciilifeform: at which point every beggar in every street can make own J'.
asciilifeform: this'd be handy if mircea_popescu had otp set up in advance with the people he intends to give the actual J' to
asciilifeform: but otherwise quite useless.
mircea_popescu: can just go in the same message.
asciilifeform: and if you posit the otp (or some other way, perhaps through buttsex, for him to give the True J' to the intended recipients) it turns into my algo.
mircea_popescu: nah, you just posit "one message" is possible.
asciilifeform: recall, if rsa died, mircea_popescu cannot simply pgp the J' to his current circle of friends.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what means 'one message' ?
asciilifeform: outside of buttsex room, there is no such thing as a 'one message' that cannot be mitm'd.
mircea_popescu: J.sign("Here's the laydown : 1. rsa got fucked, this is the process to exrtract privkey from pubkey ; 2. message so-and-so on deedbot was creating by so-hashing this salt and this pubkey ; 3. this here key J was created by using cryptoisystem ? with rng = privkey.K, which guarantees i am the one that made it ; 4. please use this here J' in future")
asciilifeform: i get it, mircea_popescu reeeeeally loves the repudiability thing, but you gotta be careful not to make a cannon that shoots in ALL directions simultaneously. someone has to get privileged knowledge of the true J' or you are cryptodead.
mircea_popescu: this system presumes there's such a thing as ordering of events.
mircea_popescu: this however is a necessary assumption (seen in t1 t2 etc) and not escapable in the current paradigm.
asciilifeform: J.sign can sign anything anyone likes once J is known.
mircea_popescu: but not before. yes.
asciilifeform: you are open to mitm in the act of deedbotting.
asciilifeform: which is ~why~ i had the multiple steps.
mircea_popescu: suppose for safety of this scheme, ? is made so that create-key takes a day.
asciilifeform: this cannot actually be guaranteed physically, realized.
asciilifeform: *realize
mircea_popescu: in general "collapsed cryptosystem" reduces one to a "either you have time-order and single-message or else you restart from scratch".
mircea_popescu: there's no way out of this, i'm affraid.
mircea_popescu: which is why we HAVE both of these.
asciilifeform: my algo from earlier requires only time-order.
asciilifeform: it is not open to mitm.
mircea_popescu: well yes, because it implements a sort of single-message kludge.
asciilifeform: aha, because single-message is not a thing in our universe.
asciilifeform: outside of buttsex room.
mircea_popescu: the correct pill to all of this being, of course, gossipd.
asciilifeform: gossipd, in all proposed variants, relies on numbertheoretical crypto
mircea_popescu: because of the whole "array of keys" thing, it'd actually allow jumping over dead rsa
asciilifeform: current thread is re parachute specifically against catastrophe that would burn down rsa, c-s, similar.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i just mean "makes mitm meaningless"
asciilifeform: likewise 'my inner circle knows what the true J' is' is not solving same problem as 'everyone who knew Kpublic can reliably learn true J' ' which in the case of serious 'for the ages' signatures, e.g., vtronics, you actually ~do~ want
mircea_popescu: this much is true.
mircea_popescu goes re-reads alf scheme
asciilifeform: btw if mircea_popescu ONLY wants to give J' to his best friends, he can do that already via the otp he has with them.
asciilifeform: no need for deedbot, etc.
asciilifeform: 'the best machine is no machine' -- altschuller
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your scheme is actually dead in the water because between t2 and t3 enemy can deedbot in your name.
asciilifeform: elaborate?
asciilifeform: i oughta not have used word 'deedbot'
asciilifeform: replace with 'publish' & reread.
mircea_popescu: at t1.5 hitler deedbots J', at t2.5 hitler deedbots S' so that hash(s'+j') = hash(s+j)
mircea_popescu: this is a much weaker standard of failure for h than "here's h(s) tell me s"
asciilifeform: so, for convenience, i'll reprint: 1) at time T, i publish Ksign(H(S)), where S is a lengthy random string; at time T1, when i wish to invoke the continuity i publish H(S+J) ; at time T2: J; at time T3, S.
mircea_popescu: also enemy has t3-t1 to fish for the pair ; as opposed to epsilon
mircea_popescu: and t3-t1 is in his control, whereas epsilon is in mine
asciilifeform: using the formulation above, describe what hitler should do
mircea_popescu: at time t1+e hitler publishes J' ; at time t2+e hitler publishes S'.
mircea_popescu: H(S'+J') = H (S+J).
mircea_popescu: and see the comments above re weaker standard and bad time exposure.
asciilifeform: mno, he would need an S' such that H(S') == H(S)
asciilifeform: otherwise Kverify(H(S')) will fail.
asciilifeform: and hitler's work is in vain
mircea_popescu: he posts it before you do.
asciilifeform: it still doesn't link back to K.
mircea_popescu: so nobody cares about your S anymore because afatk, S' is S
asciilifeform: but it isn't, because you signed H(S), the genuine S, with K, at time T
asciilifeform: and we posited time-ordering.
mircea_popescu: ah yeah s is fixed.
asciilifeform: and pre-agreement among the verifiers that said signature was the origin.
mircea_popescu: so he'll have to find proper salt-collision, h(s+j') = h(s+j)
mircea_popescu: this is STILL a weaker standard than "gimme s in h(s)" albeit not quite as catastrophically bad as prevbiously thought
asciilifeform: correct, so it stands on the strength of the hash solely.
asciilifeform: (and of the time-orderer.)
mircea_popescu: different notions of "strength of hash"
mircea_popescu: reversibility vs collision
mircea_popescu: and the problem of t3-t1 being an interval at enemy's discretion rather than your discretion remains.
asciilifeform: why at enemy's ?
mircea_popescu: now this said, a provably collision-resistant h might be found ; and would be amply useful.
asciilifeform: interval can be as short as 2 blocks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because he decides when you find out rsa was broken
asciilifeform: well, if ~he~ broke it
mircea_popescu: this is what we mean by "enemy".
asciilifeform: then he can sit on it for so long as he likes
asciilifeform: silently churchilling
mircea_popescu: well yes, but in my secret-k scheme the epsilon is my domain alone.
mircea_popescu: still, i wouldn't say these differences allow for a strict determination.
asciilifeform: didn't we just 'it doesn't solve same problem' ??
mircea_popescu: i suppose so.
asciilifeform: it solves another, also useful problem, yes, but not same..!
asciilifeform: call remains open for 'shorter algo that solves same problem'.
mircea_popescu: the one important salient point here is that what we would really like for a hash function would be a H so that it is mathematically proven that NO j' exists so that h(s+j) = h(s+j')
asciilifeform: this is provably impossible
asciilifeform: think about it for a minute.
mircea_popescu: hey, you're breaking rsa over there, do some useful stuff!
asciilifeform opens his circle-squaring tool chest.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't require that len(h(x)) < len(x).
trinque: deedbot back in a moment.
asciilifeform: this is probably a good time to remind readers that hash algos as we have them today (incl., yes, keccak) are pseudoscientific kit, similar to the block ciphers, rather than items where the strength is of some provable kind
asciilifeform: and that the 'do trapdoors exist' fundamental question is not only not settled, but afaik there is not the faintest clue where one might begin from to settle it, nor what the proof would look like.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform t1 you publish K.sign(hash(S)) ; time t2 you publish J.sign(hash(S+S')) ; time t3 you publish S and S' thus proving J knew before everyone else.
mircea_popescu: still simpler than your thing, and imo better collision resistance (now h(s) = h(s+s') is required which iirc is tougher than (s+x) = (s+y) )
asciilifeform: this question does not, afaik, have an answer, mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: just vague memories from back when i knew friends with rainbow tables.
asciilifeform: not a ~general~ answer
mircea_popescu: entirely lens polisher apocripha.
asciilifeform: it had answers for some peculiarly braindead hash algos from the '90s, yes.
asciilifeform: there is no expectation that modern-day ones will fail along same fault-lines.
asciilifeform: (when's the last time you made a rainbow table.)
mircea_popescu: like last week, lol. eulora db work has a lot of similarities.
mircea_popescu: the bitch with high level cognition, be it math, fucking, programming horses, riding computers et all is that you never fucking know which the same thing you'll be doing this time
mircea_popescu: it's pretty trippy/
asciilifeform adjusts stirrups on his comp
mircea_popescu: i propose to you that if jockeys were sent to write software and code monkeys sent to ride horses, the overal results would sum to more.
asciilifeform: likely.
trinque: !!up bizarrotrinque
deedbot: bizarrotrinque voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: Import failed for bizarrotrinque.
trinque: bah!
bizarrotrinque: !!register 370963B1A875EC91525A8C2930F0C4BCE2BE786D
deedbot: Import failed for bizarrotrinque.
bizarrotrinque: alrighty, back to the old code for now.
trinque: derp, I didn't upload the key, so of course the second one didn't work
trinque: omaigad, I think I just had an empathy
mircea_popescu: !!up thepirlo
deedbot: thepirlo voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!key thepirlo
trinque: !!up bizarrotrinque
deedbot: bizarrotrinque voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: 370963B1A875EC91525A8C2930F0C4BCE2BE786D registered as bizarrotrinque.
trinque: sweet.
trinque unpersons bizarrotrinque in db
bizarrotrinque: !!register 370963B1A875EC91525A8C2930F0C4BCE2BE786D
deedbot: Import failed for bizarrotrinque.
bizarrotrinque: !!register 370963B1A875EC91525A8C2930F0C4BCE2BE786D
deedbot: 370963B1A875EC91525A8C2930F0C4BCE2BE786D registered as bizarrotrinque.
trinque: mircea_popescu: alrighty, both paths workin.
mircea_popescu: such win.
trinque: ;;later tell pete_dushenski new docs for !!register on http://deedbot.org/help.html
trinque: !%later tell pete_dushenski new docs for !!register on http://deedbot.org/help.html
trinque: !~later tell pete_dushenski new docs for !!register on http://deedbot.org/help.html
trinque: ermergerd.
shinohai sighs
jurov: thestringpuller: done. not sick, just afk for a bit
trinque: shinohai: what was the thing?
asciilifeform: wb jurov
trinque: oh, not voiced I guess
jurov: ty asciilifeform BingoBoingo
shinohai: trinque: yeah it's due to the freenode brouhaha
trinque: nbd
thestringpuller: jurov: glad you're well! :D
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/record-high-pumpkin-harvest-on-the-way/ << Qntra - Record High Pumpkin Harvest On The Way
BingoBoingo: ^ Rumours of a pumpkin spice shortage are a Debeers style fabrication. Unless the shortage is on the spice side of things.
trinque chants clim, clim, clim, in the hopes that gabriel_laddel shall appear
trinque: wtf am I supposed to do, go query the cucks in #clim ?
pete_dushenski: trinque: haha cheers
asciilifeform: trinque: whatcha doing with clim anyway
trinque: embedded doodad that puts some data on an LCD screen for an app of mine.
BingoBoingo: Summoning Herr Ladedel it appears?
trinque: sometimes it worx
BingoBoingo chants clam, clam, clam, hopes that Poseidon appears
mircea_popescu: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DMu9PKWthLE << for opera connoisseurs si nu numai.
asciilifeform: Run Moar Tcp.
ben_vulpes: assault on the republic!!1
asciilifeform pictures toady in tempest black van, on sat phone: 'yessir, start the fleanode ddos right NOW'
asciilifeform: imho we really oughta lamportize the voice mechanism.
mircea_popescu: what is with all the bullshit connections you people get!
ben_vulpes: no dedicated microwave to the dirigible
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes shut up it's not micro
mircea_popescu: macrowave, bish!
asciilifeform: that one's on mircea_popescu's nuke sub
asciilifeform: (btw i'd run ~that~ instead of shortwave, if i were a mad king)
asciilifeform: so what if receiver needs to be 100 metres long.
asciilifeform: you can put it literally anywhere on planet's crust.
asciilifeform: (and, likely, elsewhere)
BingoBoingo: To the MOON!!!
thestringpuller: !~ticker
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
ben_vulpes: "dear elon, why won't you hire foreign nationals"
ben_vulpes: "because rockets are weapons tech, you dipshit"
ben_vulpes: "and i'm on the usg.rocket.dole"
mircea_popescu: seeing the success of the littoral beercan program, i'm vaguely surprised the usg doesn't bless its doomed effort of catching up with china/russia with cubical rockets.
mircea_popescu: cylinders are disrespectful to women and africans, after all.
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: or "i'm an alien and am trying to get home, so usg would have to admit they are harboring a martian"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: zing
ben_vulpes: "spreading, works!"
mircea_popescu: think about all the advantages : a cubical rocket doesn't need to be steered as much.
mircea_popescu: just put spikes on all sides.
ben_vulpes: 2/10 troll
ben_vulpes: mount linear aerospikes on the edges
ben_vulpes: now *thats* a retarded brick.
mircea_popescu: "it has to be pointy"
a111: Logged on 2016-09-26 17:33 asciilifeform: incidentally i find it quite hilarious that three years after the snowden catalogue leak, the constellation of symptoms of rf bug illuminator victims is still Officially 'schizo'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: u.s. 'export control' law is a real hoot. e.g., read what counts as 'exporting'
asciilifeform: lol wtf just happened
shinohai: a111 is becoming sentient
asciilifeform: no not that
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: is that movie any good?
asciilifeform: i (and a111 simultaneously) got a burst of what must be 10 minutes' worth of convo
asciilifeform: in 1/2 s or so
mircea_popescu: not really.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fwiw, the author reads rather disturbed to me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: noshit
mircea_popescu: in particular, the "pay attention to your own thought process" is pretty miserable advice.
asciilifeform: aha, as per naggum's 'stop telling people to lick their teeth'
mircea_popescu: tends to create the psychogenic equivalent of what happens when you go live on your local radio station with the phone next to the radio set.
asciilifeform: aha, how else.
mircea_popescu: imo the ~best advice in that situation is "go fuck many whores". nothing beats it and fits on a page. which is why i always suspected the pua folk of being a lot more reasonable than anyone realises.
mircea_popescu: marginal and subclinical psychiatric cases abound in "modern democracy"
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/classiccoin-supplanted-by-unlimitedspamcoin-as-social-engineers-forking-brand/ << Qntra - ClassicCoin Supplanted By UnlimitedSpamCoin As Social Engineer's Forking Brand
asciilifeform: this is getting ridiculous.
asciilifeform: re: earlier: caveat is that a man being correctly microwaved will, in all likelihood, present the symptoms of 'rather disturbed' in short order
asciilifeform: if, as some of the lucky fellas seem to suggest, he can be prevented from sleeping, say.
mircea_popescu: eh, so move to mongolia.
asciilifeform: on dirigible, aha.
asciilifeform: and enemy cannot follow you there because... reasons, aha.
mircea_popescu: man who is married to a place he can't defend was already pretty disturbed.
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: check it out trinque , it works.
gabriel_laddel: It does. I search the logs for clim and my handle ~daily
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel could possibly just set up a dinger
mircea_popescu: ima bbl.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Perhaps set up a Climsten bot to ping yourself?
shinohai: "Notorious transmayogendered hamplanet and serial fraudster Marshall Long has yet to complete his life's mission of eating himself to death." <<< perfect BingoBoingo
trinque: lel
trinque: gabriel_laddel: ahoy!
trinque: what's the frame resize hook thinger, so I can redraw a pane when my frame changes?
asciilifeform: the sheer, breathtaking idiocy of synchronous protocols on a plebified channel.
asciilifeform: 'sorry i couldn't hear your pong in time, frogs were croaking too much'
BingoBoingo: Macrowave!!! 512bps is enough for anyone!!!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc it's more like 1.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: your logger is dead ?
asciilifeform: it missed a line from me.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc it's more like 1.
BingoBoingo: But this is marketing Fase!!!
BingoBoingo: Use seperate antennas of differing lengths to allow FM!!!
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/7aEnx << in unrelated olds. where hanno boeck was 3 yrs ago.
asciilifeform: encouraging the use of sha1.
asciilifeform: 'Hanno Böck is a freelance journalist and volunteer developer with Gentoo Linux. He also works for web hosters schokokeks.org, who rely entirely on free software for their service offerings.'
asciilifeform: might be worth tracking down what specifically he's shat into.
asciilifeform: to the extent that answering such a q is even possible in heathendom.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/us-sports-team-loses-bidding-war-to-russian-sports-team-for-sportsman/ << Qntra - US Sports Team Loses Bidding War To Russian Sports Team For Sportsman
BingoBoingo: ^ Still moar altcoin news today!
pete_dushenski: duffel bag fulla rubles > usg.bezzle
shinohai: BingoBoingo I haz stripper news incoming soon
BingoBoingo: cool shinohai
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Ironically the weather in Omsk seems to roughly mirror that of St Louis except the summer and winter extremes of temperature are still more extreme in Omsk
pete_dushenski: also, fewer taxes and still fewer negroes in omsk. sorta tought to beat.
pete_dushenski: at least for non-brashiers and non-subbans
asciilifeform: funnily enough pete_dushenski i traded a bag of rubles for 1 usd as a boy.
pete_dushenski: shoulda hodled
asciilifeform: lel those ain't worth, outside of numismatic few u.s. cent/each, no more.
pete_dushenski: bitcoin pizza guy thought the same!
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: alf's old rubles went through at least one official devaluation since his move
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1r1h
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: BingoBoingo was right, furries are dangerous http://archive.is/xUaJM
pete_dushenski: man alive flights to ireland are priiiicey. more than oz even. /me will be waiting for a deal like a good jew.
ben_vulpes: sounds like a frivolous waste of money
ben_vulpes: PRECIOUS CAPITAL
pete_dushenski: eh gotta live a little
pete_dushenski: da fuck are the chitlin gonna do with ALL of it
ben_vulpes: chitlin?
ben_vulpes: it's for drilling holes in people.
ben_vulpes: buying people to drill holes in, exotic drills...
pete_dushenski: mebbe irish are cheeper to buy. i have to go there to find out.
BingoBoingo: Great LOL: Tonight on NBC Nightly news half of their segment on last night's debate was spent accussing Trump of fatshaming 20 years ago!
shinohai: Make America thin again!
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Too much legal circle jerk, too little strippers
BingoBoingo: The outrage should be over America's cloaca hating healthy women, not their laws having or not having legal grounds
BingoBoingo: rewrite
shinohai: Meh I'll probably can it since I can find no info on stripper id's
BingoBoingo: Eh, if you want to pursue it there's prolly angles. Existing draft just leans too much on legalisms nest
mircea_popescu: aaand first.
ben_vulpes: two! two! two kinks in one!
ben_vulpes: my aren't we having/the bestest of fun
asciilifeform: pyronecrocryptozoophilia!1111
mircea_popescu: well technically "bad tan lines" is a third
mircea_popescu: !!key <th3nolo>
deedbot: No such key.
mircea_popescu: !!key th3nolo
BingoBoingo: !!up th3nolo
deedbot: th3nolo voiced for 30 minutes.
th3nolo: thanks bingo
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 431863 | Current Difficulty: 2.4122720022999103E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 433439 | Next Difficulty In: 1576 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 16 hours, 2 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
ben_vulpes: > keyboarb cleaner
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo third consecutive years ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty fxd
mircea_popescu: "I was browseing the web for some cool thing to call my next project I swooped by Mike Davis's web page where there is alot of cool stuff and was checking out his homebuilt jet engine and it reminded me of a drawing I had in my fileing cabinet from years ago when I was still in grade school. I dug a little and whiped it out and asked my girl friend if she want to see something cool, she replied yeah so I showed my drawing,she
mircea_popescu: said what is that a new toilet invention.
mircea_popescu: I kinda giggled and said yeah. So after some hard thought planning I thought, "why not" and started to redraw my picture on windows paint, so I got my initial layout ready to post on i'ables, first here is picture of a model rocket I found online perhaps an ideal candidate for my fusilage design. ofcorse mine will have to be different,unique,personalized. " << this is what ben_vulpes makes me read.
asciilifeform also wishes to know why he had to read this
mircea_popescu: lol wife, 39, husband, 34, and "billy" friend, 28, dead.
mircea_popescu: maybe it... wasn't about teh daughter ?
ben_vulpes: i want to know who expects home made orbital rocket to make any sense
mircea_popescu: we have great hopes for you!
BingoBoingo: Seriously go orbital cannon or go home. Piss off ATF with electric ignition too!!!
ben_vulpes: me, sure, give me 500mm and 2 years. instructables though? great hopes for instructables? and wikipedia, right?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: theoretically a ~very~ small balloon-launched rocket is orbitable.
asciilifeform: so the notion isn't wholly nonsensical.
asciilifeform: but just short of wholly.
mircea_popescu: theoretically i could carry a pregnancy to term.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not just theoretically. Just a challenge to get baby out.
asciilifeform: wake up the alices and leahs when you pull this off, i hear they're quite interested in subj.
mircea_popescu: i have about the same interest in achieving either feat is the problem.
asciilifeform: not really problem, i dun need these for anything.
mircea_popescu: maybe they could be joined together at the hip. have moon rocket carry baby to term.
BingoBoingo: Eh, add hormones, inject zygote into abdominal fluid 2x daily until one sticks.
mircea_popescu: do you also do boob jobs ?
asciilifeform: aside from balloons, you could possible julesverne something out of a 'hochdruckspumpe'.
asciilifeform: *possibly
asciilifeform: ('why' is separate question.)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah. Boobs matter. Particular lives tend not to.
shinohai: Just make sure they are 21+
BingoBoingo: Anyways, pregnancy is just a particular kind of cancer.
BingoBoingo: A contagious one.
BingoBoingo: !~tslb
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Time since last block: 14 minutes and 20 seconds
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