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ben_vulpes also interested
mircea_popescu: whatcha interested in ben_vulpes ?
ben_vulpes: text based eulora client
ben_vulpes helps shinohai with the log line recency citation criteria binary search project
mircea_popescu: i guess someone'll have to bite teh bullet and make the thing.
ben_vulpes will probably commit some x11 atrocity
ben_vulpes: can one detatch from an x11 display and then later reconnect to it, a la tmux?
mircea_popescu: if you run it in screen i dun see why not
ben_vulpes: woof yeah that looks like it might work in theory
ben_vulpes: the photos i've seen of brasilia mostly look tacky as hell, is it any better in person?
ben_vulpes: i mean wtf does lawn really mean "dust rectangle" to brazilians?
ben_vulpes: oh hey the bridge is pretty cool though
mircea_popescu: brasilia the capital of brasil you mean ?
mircea_popescu: about as shitty as wdc
ben_vulpes: quelle triste
ben_vulpes: bits and pieces look like they might be fun to be proximate to for an hour or two
mircea_popescu: tristesse ?
ben_vulpes: yeah, gutter spanish leaking through
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515200 << i think it was with a tool. maybe even an improved hoe or something
a111: Logged on 2016-08-05 02:45 mircea_popescu: iirc danielpbarron got that sizable barehanded, too.
mircea_popescu: ah was it ? ok then
danielpbarron: plenty of ordinaries i got barehanded, and at least one remarkable
mircea_popescu: o yeah i got a dozen the past ~3 days.
mircea_popescu: ordinaries i mean
danielpbarron: more i think about it, i may have gotten that sizable without foxybot, which means... I must have been fortunate enough to see it happen while xmacroing and was able to lock it in time
mircea_popescu: you know the bot totally spoiled me in the sense that i'd go with sticks, and find ords and then totally forget to lock them
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean they don't autolock"
mircea_popescu: must have lost like 5 or 6 this way
jurov: i just have embedded ecl in eulora and made quite a complete functionality available to it
jurov: but whole thing is still the graphical client married to crystalspace
jurov: see http://minigame.bz/jurov/ 0.1.2 not there yet
jurov: ben_vulpes shinohai ^
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 13118913265992357713749906968914856459229448329385353928317865240153186990772616410386066804476994406481496060266687741570826925431077185850750051547683307 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '112.16.65.247 (ssh-rsa key from 112.16.65.247 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+112.16.65.247@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 13118913265992357713749906968914856459229448329385353928317865240153186990772616410386066804476994406481496060266687741570826925431077185850750051547683307 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '112.16.65.245 (ssh-rsa key from 112.16.65.245 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+112.16.65.245@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-04#1514975 <<< in retrospect, I should have mentioned that < 2/3 of this was mircea_popescu always saying "you should qntra" and me finally saying "ok. goddamn. I'll do it already."
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1b3g
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: oh look the drinking record has been updated
mircea_popescu: ah nice jurov
mircea_popescu: btw you still making windows binary releases ?
PeterL: BingoBoingo "Access to sanely parse" s/parse/parsed
mircea_popescu: shinohai hey, it's how i ended up looking at bitcoin.
shinohai: Now I am grateful for the prodding Sr. Popescu.
mircea_popescu: where the fuck is that utf thumbsup
mircea_popescu: omgawd phf log's broken! WHERE IS MY WATERGUN
shinohai: 8999.66 <<< this is # of shares in circulation by s.mg ?
shinohai: *# of BTC i mean
PeterL: "S.MG has a total of 88`096`605 authorised shares outstanding. The shareholder equity per share implied value is thus 0.00009958 BTC."
mircea_popescu: yeah it raised like 9k when it ipo'd
mircea_popescu: there's also some stock warrants outstanding, which is a matter that is still open wrt valuations in btc.
shinohai: nice
mircea_popescu: or at leas afk, out of all the "corporate officers" in their own mind and "cummulative years of expertise" echo'd by php scripts on websites, nobody has actually found it within their power to say anything intelligent on the topic lo these many years.
thestringpuller: ;;calc 46377 * 0.00014970
gribble: 6.9426369
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 570.47, Best ask: 572.62, Bid-ask spread: 2.15000, Last trade: 572.58, 24 hour volume: 5358.74239655, 24 hour low: 552.0, 24 hour high: 583.97, 24 hour vwap: 570.519062008
thestringpuller: will s.mg start paying tax now that it's profitable or is that just for dividend paying?
shinohai: i thought of doing a piece comparing s.mg to bitcrystals but it would likely sound too biased
thestringpuller: they're two different concepts.
shinohai: i was trying to generalize. there are a lot of other places id have to look to do an objective gaming piece
PeterL: is s.mg profitable yet?
mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear it's profitable.
mircea_popescu: in any case what's the rush, if it pays now or later ; as long as it's not paid dividends it doesn't much make a diff.
thestringpuller: Bitcrystals literally copied MTG-online (ironic), and replaced the credit system in MTG with BitCrystals.
thestringpuller: But it's revolutionary cuz ur digital pokemonz cardz are on da blockchainz!!!!!1
mircea_popescu: which is mtg ?
mircea_popescu: oh magic the gathering ?
mircea_popescu: that's not a business, the moment they make a dime they get sued and what are they gonna do ? hire an assassin ?
shinohai: it's another Erik Voorhees venture, did you expect anything different ?
PeterL: mircea_popescu https://www.anony.ws/image/NncR the table on your page gets truncated in my browser (chrome)
mircea_popescu: that sucks.
mircea_popescu: well, you can see the whole thing in page source, data's there.
PeterL: aha, I hadn't thought of that
thestringpuller: The guys who did A Tale in the Desert did a game. (A tale in the desert was a partial inspiration for chetty iirc)
mircea_popescu: i recall she played it, way back when. before btc even.
thestringpuller: Dragon's Tale! that's the bitcoin one they made
thestringpuller: it's just a digital casino but has the same "feel" as ATITD
mircea_popescu: yeah, at least that was you know, a proper thing. there's a difference between drawing a cartoon mouse and copy/pasting mickey.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea her and I had some good convo's about ATITD it's a great game. Not many people have played it, but the crafting system was something really intense for the time period.
thestringpuller: like mega crafting villages and "world wonders" and such. (I think each age is denoted when a community builds a world wonder)
mircea_popescu: they had some interesting teamwork items that i intend to lift.
mircea_popescu: like at some point she was doing some shit with 3 friends where they kept lifting something or the other in order.
deedbot: [Qntra] Hacked Exchange Other Than Bitfinex Also Plans Reopening - http://qntra.net/2016/08/hacked-exchange-other-than-bitfinex-also-plans-reopening/
thestringpuller: sounds promising.
mircea_popescu: shinohai it's trading DAMN IT SON!
thestringpuller: re: shinohai I don't think many bitcoin games exist other than eulora and dragon's tale. i don't see why more secondlife-like game companies don't get on board. since USG killed second life by regulating linden dollars.
thestringpuller: i don't see that being a problem for regulating eulora coppers
mircea_popescu: hey, people are lazy and stupid. there's a very good explanation why they don't do anything intelligent. for one thing, it requires work.
mircea_popescu: for the other, they're not in the demo.
thestringpuller: indie developers are just in a crab bucket race for a 15 minute spotlight before going back into obscurity. so exaclty as you described. phil fish (maker of FEZ) is a primary example of what's wrong with game development
thestringpuller: if you ever want to torture yourself, watch Indie Game the Movie and watch the beta male Phil Fish literally cry about how difficult making a game is and wants to give up.
thestringpuller: like tears and snot and everything
mircea_popescu: i can't summon teh interest.
thestringpuller: you can call out beta males on being pussies.
mircea_popescu: the problem is, nobody wants to intern, everyone wants to pretend equality to their betters, then "oh it's hard". fucking hell, how would it be easy, you're a child that's given himself adult responsibilities which precluded you from becoming an adult in time. hurr durr, stop being stupid.
mircea_popescu: every single fucktard "businessman" in bitcoin thinks himself a CEO.
mircea_popescu: fuck this shit, 1% of 1% of what crawls out of woman isn't fit to be an officer.
mircea_popescu: why pretend ? not like it makes it so!
mircea_popescu: then "life is hard". well yes, if the turtle didn't pretend to be an eagle it wouldn't have all the bumps on the carpace from all the rocks it hit on its many forced descents.
mircea_popescu: the only thing i regret is that they're not pretending to be you know, boxers. drug lords.
mircea_popescu: THIS is the deep reason so many black kids get shot, incidentally : that it's not fashionable to be a "ceo", it's fashionable to be a "gangsta". and the idiots get shot. humongo boon for the black community, and ~the only reason they don't suck as bad as whitey.
thestringpuller: The interesting thing, is the profound games the arise out of the sludge. While the children try to make toys and pass them off as "real things", (when it's just glue and twigs stuck together purporting to be a doll). For instance the Beginner's Guide puts you in the role of having that mentality. This "I want recognition for nothing. Call me CEO, bitch. Cause Zuckerberg did it."
thestringpuller: And after playing teh Beginner's Guide you walk away thinking, "Wow a lot of people are pieces of shit, pretending to have talent. How could I not recognize this before?"
mircea_popescu: if, quia absurdum, i were to take a 13 yo and call her a slave and a slut, and ordered everyone in the harem to be deferential to her majestic slavish sluttery, the girls would do it, but the 13 yo STILL wouldn't feel accomplished, or be happy, or anything. on the contrary, it'd poison her life.
mircea_popescu: why it's evidently a bad idea here but not even verbalized as a bad idea there is entirely beyond comprehension.
thestringpuller: the trophy generation huh? here is a reward for participating even if you sucked.
mircea_popescu: personally, i blame the english language, which is why all the various knocks it got.
thestringpuller: this reminds me of the article of the type of game that hand holds you to the end. lack of difficult == lack of accomplishment
mircea_popescu: also, the same fucking thing with the "bright" young "finance" minds (which, btw asciilifeform , is the deep reason i dun think much of "performance enhancing" - these idiots, not those idiots) : yes the job is very... metaphysical, in the end. yes some accomplished metaphysicians use various "performance enhancers", ever since the day they were priests and shamans.
mircea_popescu: THIS DOESN'T FUCKING MEAN random dicklet from ohio will be a "successful trader" for "doing coke off whore's asscrack"
mircea_popescu: it's not a fucking mechanism ffs.
PeterL: shinohai aha, I found the 8`999.6605 btc, that is the total value that would be raised by S.MG if all outstanding warrents were executed, not the amount previously raised
mircea_popescu: wait, what ?!
shinohai: that is the number i wanted
PeterL: in the warrents table
mircea_popescu: right it's ipo + what warrants yield.
mircea_popescu: technically sws work as a sort of "deferred ipo", at least so far.
PeterL: none have been executed yet, right?
mircea_popescu: none yet.
PeterL: does not make much sense to execute them until the price rises, I suppose
thestringpuller: they will when the coffers fill up
mircea_popescu: well, more like irl this is 99% a tax consideration. nobody's dodging the republic's tax anyway, so not much difference.
mircea_popescu: at least that's what i think, who even knows.
thestringpuller: S.MG stock warrants act exactly as stock bonuses in "corporate" should work, you add value to the company. company profits. Execute warrant. Profit.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515346 << cheapo honda engine sitting in traffic jam in wash dc also won't benefit from nitro fuel.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-05 13:54 mircea_popescu: THIS DOESN'T FUCKING MEAN random dicklet from ohio will be a "successful trader" for "doing coke off whore's asscrack"
mircea_popescu: yes, but the warrant is worth ~same executed or unexecuted.
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg.
thestringpuller: Whereas stock bonus in corporate means "WOuld you like to voluntarily keep your slave contract going for another few years? If you do there is this cheese waiting for you at the end of the maze. The cheeze MAAAY spoil in the meantime cause the leadership had a lobotomy in the 90's but it's okay."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tis a lot easier to measure the engine capacity than the metaphisicity. by definition of latter.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: think of afterburners on jet fighter. there are no afterburners on boeing liner. for good reason.
mircea_popescu: this is not so clear.
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's entirely unclear how you'd go about distinguishing a jet fighter from an airliner when they're both bipedal lifeforms.
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the MUCH HARDER q of how'd you distinguish self.
PeterL: yes, but the warrant is worth ~same executed or unexecuted. << If the company pays dividends, wouldn't it be worth more when executed?
mircea_popescu: PeterL yes, it would.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is just as strange a question as 'how do i distinguish if i am ceo', or napoleon, etc.
asciilifeform: ~the man~ doesn't distinguish, and if he tries, and is laughably off target, he ends in asylum and issued a bicorn
mircea_popescu: so then, both the safe and the ethically required position is "i guess i aren't, let me see the best i can do"
asciilifeform: if everybody followed this dictum, there'd be no napoleon at all.
mircea_popescu: and generally stop with the fucking titulature ; between the dizzy cow who thinks herself "an expert on geopolitics" for having a geopolitics degree from geopolitics university and alf thinking himself a "jet fighter" for reason of the rule of cool - no difference.
asciilifeform: (and no anybody else worth the mention)
mircea_popescu: this is deeply untrue.
mircea_popescu: fewer napoleons, more cincinnatii would be widely preferable.
asciilifeform: what, laser beam from the heavens has to illuminate you before you can finally napoleon ?
mircea_popescu: napoleon is essentially 1700s herostratus. a more successful histrion, but that's a matter of circumstance mostly.
mircea_popescu: you can not "BE" napoleon ffs. what is with all this label-based categorical thinking.
asciilifeform: shorthand for 'exceptional mover of things' conventionally
mircea_popescu: like what, a fart ?
asciilifeform: on account of their one-time over-representation in asylums
mircea_popescu: i dun think much of your historical model.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, there was no shortage of napoleons, even at the time of napoleon.
mircea_popescu: the ~only reason they didn't fill the asylums at that time has to do with the relative naivite of spamfilters.
mircea_popescu: im sure the first few "buy viagra" emails were also widely read.
asciilifeform: 'napoleon' is typically shorthand for 'effective napoleon', unless the asylum is explicitly specified, neh ?
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what your symbols are typical shorthand for.
mircea_popescu: but do define "effective" in this context.
mircea_popescu: what, effecting change for change's sake ?
asciilifeform: more in the 'soldiers, i demand your lives, and you will give them to me!' (tm) (r) sense
mircea_popescu: this is a purely sexual matter. yes, the guy was hot as all fuck.
mircea_popescu: i didn't realise that was the angle.
asciilifeform thought this was pretty clear from context..
mircea_popescu: but youy can't "want to be hot" "like napoleon" ffs.
asciilifeform: but - to move up the stack - mircea_popescu's comment re dopes was, in effect, 'shuddup peon and be content with what nature gave you' wasn't it ?
mircea_popescu: there's two kinds of pretty blonde girls that grow double d tits their 15th year : the kind to whose the tits are a boon ; and the kind to whose the tits are a curse.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, it was "stop being the fucking idiot who thinks he's going to '''improve''' a series car in his fucking garage with a rusty old nail and a blowtorch".
asciilifeform: i dun really see a hard distinction between 'performance dopes' and, e.g., silicone tits, or heeled shoes, etc
mircea_popescu: prolly worth a read.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think you deeply misunderstand this technological item, the silicone tits.
asciilifeform: not being an aficionado, it is possible that i do not
mircea_popescu: it's point is not to make a mousy 15 yo into a total pool party slut. its point is to recover an aging slut, so that she gets a 2nd run starting in her 30s sometime.
asciilifeform: well yes.
mircea_popescu: it's a kind of dentistry - children don't need it, they got milk teeth.
asciilifeform: 15 y.o. don't performance-dope either
asciilifeform: they have energy.
mircea_popescu: it's not a kind of "genetic engineering" of the "magical" kind seen in ~cartoons, "this spider touched radioactive superglue at the same time as this janitor"
mircea_popescu: no, actually, 15yos do speedballs like fucking crazy
asciilifeform: that's not performance-doping.
asciilifeform: just plain doping.
mircea_popescu: it's not "they have the energy", it's "they actually care" + "they have the recuperative power".
mircea_popescu: aaaaa-hahahaha
mircea_popescu: stop being a tightass. speedballing is the ~only performance doping actually shown to work.
mircea_popescu: you think partying is easy ?
asciilifeform: didn't mircea_popescu earlier proclaim 'doping dun work' ?
asciilifeform: we might have disagreement on what means 'works' ?
mircea_popescu: yes, but we were discussing it in the context of your "i wanna solve theorems"
mircea_popescu: we weren't discussing it in the general context. fucking obviously doping works at some point, hence inflamation supression.
mircea_popescu: "the performance of my inflamatory cascade has been enhanced. asa result i am not going to die from this beesting"
mircea_popescu: patently not what you had in mind. nor at any point a contested usage.
asciilifeform: quite similar, actually, to what i had in mind.
asciilifeform: 'idiot body thinks that it should conserve the glucose, but i have this 7-dimensional optimization problem that won't solve itself so shuddthefuckup'
mircea_popescu: then i don't think much of your biological model of rationality, either.
asciilifeform: i'd be worried if mircea_popescu began to think much of my models.
mircea_popescu: you seriously imagine it's a matter of "if i just increased the voltage of the south bus, i'd have twice as much ram" ? what is this, 15yo-overclockers-anonymous ?
asciilifeform: nah, 25 y.o. overclockers, 'i'ma boost voltage by 0.1 and pump nitrogen'
asciilifeform: an engineering tradeoff, like any other.
mircea_popescu: here's a newsflash : there's no mechanism to downregulate brain consumption of glucose, outside of the natural.
asciilifeform: upregulat.
mircea_popescu: if you have it, and it can burn it, it will.
mircea_popescu: if it CAN burn it, it WILL.
mircea_popescu: if it can't burn it, you can sit on a pole.
asciilifeform: the pharmacology of actual dopes is interesting subj, which i will guess mircea_popescu is quite familiar with
asciilifeform: cns comes with own adrenergic 'gas pedal', which most (but interesting, not ALL) of the dopes rely on.
asciilifeform: so in fact the thing does come with adjustment knob.
asciilifeform: with well-understood tradeoffs.
mircea_popescu: ~the only reason the complicated glucose/lipid interface even exists in the liver is that muscle can't protect itself from brain
asciilifeform: ;;seen gabriel_laddel
gribble: gabriel_laddel was last seen in #trilema 4 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 49 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <gabriel_laddel> wtf else are you going to do?
asciilifeform: where is that fella when we have the thread as if just for him !
asciilifeform: perhaps he over-revved his motor.
mircea_popescu: heh. what is this "Gas pedal" in actual terms ?
asciilifeform: was thinking of adrenergic and dopaminergic systems in particular
mircea_popescu: this regulates firing. not glucose usage on one end ; not rational activity on the other.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's analogy of 'overclock' is, as i understand, quite exact.
mircea_popescu: we've moved from "i'll make this music better by increasing output volume" heavy metal fan approach to "i'll make this music better by speeding up the tape". welcome to the rap game yo!
asciilifeform: the beatles also sped up (and slowed down) tape.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure it's what made them.
asciilifeform: this here, i suspect, is the dispute
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is reading a 'what made them' into asciilifeform's 'dope is a tool like any other, not a devil'
asciilifeform: tape speed knob did not make the beatles, nor dope made erdos.
asciilifeform: nor will either transform pig into man
mircea_popescu: i dunno whence "the devil" comes from, but that aisde, the point was that speedballing does work, if with miserable side effects ; whereas smartrophine or w/e the shit is hoped to work, by a certain demographic.
asciilifeform: i have nfi what is the latter thing
mircea_popescu: while there's not a single example of "high cns function helped by chemical", you can take ps hoffman as a fine example of "idiot enhanced himself"
asciilifeform: was speaking strictly of dopes that 'work, if with miserable side effects'
mircea_popescu: give such an example.
asciilifeform: erdos's dextroamphetamine, for instance.
mircea_popescu: so what problem will i be able to solve if i take how much dextroamphetamine ?
asciilifeform: how would i possibly know
mircea_popescu: i can buy by the kg if need be, and i'd like to find a way to classify assym cyphers meaningfully. say a number.
asciilifeform: it would have to be a problem that is just out of reach with normal methods.
mircea_popescu: so then WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN WORKS!
mircea_popescu: motherfucker. if the problem is "go ten miles" then the fucking combustion engine works in that i can tell you a fucking fuel qty value.
mircea_popescu: a.certain.demographic.hopes.it.works.
mircea_popescu: exactly like another certain demographics hopes she'll be a princess soon.
mircea_popescu: i can dose your daughter/sister/wife so she can party "like an animal" on the basis of seeing her naked and knowing how long the party lasts. that's what "speedballs work" means.
asciilifeform: the head is not an off-the-shelf part, and so all of the manipulations are sadly subjective. possibly erdos could have achieved same result by having a servant whip him silly every morning. not my place, to say this.
mircea_popescu: so then.
asciilifeform: all we have re comparison is that time he made a bet and quit for month
asciilifeform: and produced 0 theorem.
mircea_popescu: good thing we spent half hour re-establishing the obvious that alf doesn't like.
asciilifeform: which? the subjectivity ?
mircea_popescu: eh whatever.
mircea_popescu: it's like talking to bitcointalk i swear. "x works ; y doesn't" "no y is not the devil" "nobody said it is" "but it could work" "has it ?" "i dunno" "then wtf are you on about ?"
adlai: if the problem is "go twenty hours" then the dope works in that you can pick a dose and go
adlai: quite analogous to fuel quantity, although it's more of an additive than a fuel
mircea_popescu: moreover, that two ten hour parties sum to less than one twenty hour parties is unclear ; that a hit takes a hit out of you is certain.
adlai: the combustion engine alone can't follow lanes, or tell apart an overhead sign from a crossing trailer (the tesla fatality)
asciilifeform: let's try slightly different question. people vary in endurance / energy / sleep req. just as they vary in height, etc.
asciilifeform: doping is simply attempt to 'steal fire from the gods' and move up categories, paying whatever price.
asciilifeform: that none of the existing dopes are demonstrably 'great idea for everyone, let's eat with breakfast' is quite a separate assertion from what i read to be mircea_popescu's supposition 'only idiot would try'
asciilifeform: recall thread re mircea_popescu's pets and their iron pill ?
asciilifeform: prior to iron pill, it was perhaps supposed that 'women vary in their energy level and that's that'
asciilifeform: but ~someone~ took out a sharp meat cleaver, like mine, but larger, and CHOPPED the happenstance crud off.
asciilifeform: and turned the 'natural, inevitable' into kibble.
mircea_popescu: there is no fucking "categories". and this is a fundamental problem here, that you seem to imagine for whatever reason that the world is a large collections of drawers with labels on them.
mircea_popescu: this model is nonsensical.
asciilifeform: no drawers / discreteness implied.
mircea_popescu: so then what do you mean "categories"
asciilifeform: only the - quite obvious - fact that capacities vary.
asciilifeform: some folks are taller/faster/stronger/need less sleep/etc. than others.
mircea_popescu: so far the discussion is that capacities vary FOR A REASON. a biological reason.
mircea_popescu: for instance, do you know you could shatter your own bones under your own muscular power ?
mircea_popescu: o noes, "i increased my capacity". well... i can increase the "capacity" of my house circuitry right now, just short the fusebox.
asciilifeform: and there are instances where i'd like to have the option of risking it
asciilifeform: rather than to stay pinned under rubble.
mircea_popescu: is this also a case of "o noes, mp is making shorting out hte fusebox into the devil - it could be useful"
asciilifeform: and in fact your fusebox can temporarily supply pulse much greater than its steady current.
mircea_popescu: sure, if you're a fuycking weirdo you may benefit from such nonsense. but a) it's a short term thing and b) whatevert you're doing, you're doing it wrongly, as evidenced by this perceived need to short out the fuse box
asciilifeform: and often is asked to.
asciilifeform: (when your ac motor starts, it is effectively 'short of fusebox')
asciilifeform: so this is a deliciously bad analogy.
mircea_popescu: not really.
mircea_popescu: when you get startled you aslo "short of fusebox". the objection is at best disingenuous.
mircea_popescu: "oh, alf decided he's going to solve problem by paying someone to startle him every 5 minutes"
asciilifeform: eating, e.g., dopaminergic, and 'startling', have approx. same relationship as hormonal bc pill and actual gestation.
asciilifeform: if asciilifeform had not personally watched mircea_popescu drink a cup of coffee, he might now suppose that it had never happened !
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: does it feel like a 'startled every 5 minutes' ?
mircea_popescu: what IS a very bad analogy however, that i let pass though i shouldn't have, is the fucking iron pill. you don't know this, because insufficient exposure ; but i run a farm of women my whole life and let me tell you that a) pernicious anemia is still a fucking thing. unlike syphilis that isn't since antibiotics, pa is, iron pill or no ; b) iron pill doesn't work worth a shit. every fucking time i'd try every glycosulcinate, f
mircea_popescu: errofuckitsmother and etc. girl doesn't absorb, has to go on diet of chicken livers and so on. THAT works.
mircea_popescu: and they had chicken livers in 5000 ad, also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i entirely believe it, i have 1 such right here
asciilifeform: kept as pet.
asciilifeform: fed it the very same iron pill, to substantial effect.
mircea_popescu: the piddly coffee i drink, drowned in milk as it is, has ~0 effect i can discern.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, good for you then. but generally in modern anemia the problem is bad genetics leading to poor intestinal uptake.
mircea_popescu: shinohai lol!
shinohai: he was running wptron!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would be interesting to learn why the chicken liver worx
mircea_popescu: i have nfi, but it's quite fascinating indeed.
asciilifeform: who the fuck even knows how much individual variation is accounted for by 'different uptake of x'
mircea_popescu: intuitively, you'd think "oh well, there's these many oxidative presentations of iron, i've tried them all, time for you to say goodbye to life". yet, chiken liver works. bloody steak somewhat but not as greatly (and only with proper red wine anyway, so clearly oxidative pathway)
asciilifeform: there was actually an interesting experiment, one of the VERY few useful 'human genetic sequence' finds i know of,
mircea_popescu: so you next suppose "oh, it's because the pill creates this point with a gradient, whereas livers are distributed". so you grind it into a dust, mix it in say, humus. nnnnnope...
asciilifeform: where two sets of people were fed dopaminergic (some amphetamine or other) and then tortured with puzzles, etc. subjectively both pools 'liked', but only one set actually outscored
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the intestine ? LOTS of it. the intestinal surface is just as fucking complex as the brain. it selects certain bacterial populations ffs.
mircea_popescu: through complex interactions with their dna no less.
asciilifeform: and they had an identifiable mutation.
PeterL: might have to do with how the iron is complexed with organics in the liver, mostly non-complexed in the pill
asciilifeform: if adlai or PeterL recall the paper, plx link.
mircea_popescu: PeterL quite possibly. though...
mircea_popescu: i mean... ammonium citrate. useless. but just how complex does this coordination have to get ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd bet that the iron is at least partly 'red herring', and you need some enzyme that magicks the absorption
asciilifeform: found in liver.
mircea_popescu: i'm pretty sure it's the gut, myself, but then again wtf do we know.
PeterL: could be both (needs some enzyme to get through gut, another to change the complex coordination in liver so the rest of the body can use it)
PeterL: just throwing out ideas
PeterL: maybe a red herring would be a healthy diet addition ;)
mircea_popescu: yes but... i tried lactate. i tried glycosulphate. i mean... holy shit, what, does it come as part of a chunk of protein eight miles long, to count ?
asciilifeform: quite conceivably.
mircea_popescu: yeah well...
PeterL: bigger is better, right?
mircea_popescu: apparently.
mircea_popescu: women, you know ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL ironically, the reason i'm convinced it's genetics is that of the (~half dozen) girls i encountered with the problem, ALL hated nordic fish
mircea_popescu: ie, heavy oil fish like herring.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how do you find out if you have the erdos gene ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the article mentioned earlier gave a locus. will post when i find it, prolly will have to dig through optical disks.
mircea_popescu: lol why am i reading this.
mircea_popescu: don't tell me, "it's where the experts gather" ?
asciilifeform: expert sexchangers.
mircea_popescu: oh i fucking linked this didn't i
mircea_popescu: mea culpa.
mircea_popescu: "why am i reading this ?" "you linked it!" "oh..."
asciilifeform: it pops up every 6 mo or so.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-05 13:07 mircea_popescu: btw you still making windows binary releases ?
mircea_popescu: cool. new one's up, 0.1.2b plox.
mircea_popescu: it was a painless ~10 minute compile for everyone who tried it so far, but diana_coman 's kinda curious if that holds out in win or not.
shinohai: it isn't difficult at all to build, and jurov's deb makes it even easier
mircea_popescu: shinohai did i see you in game ?
danielpbarron: 10 minute!!??
mircea_popescu: how long did you take ?
danielpbarron: half hour at least, maybe an hour
mircea_popescu: was it ftjam ?
mircea_popescu: did you for some reason to a full recompile ?
danielpbarron: jam -aq client
danielpbarron: it was painless though
mircea_popescu: i guess it depends on machine to a more significant degree than i thought.
mircea_popescu: my ftjam finished in 12:44 on this (kinda old) machine
danielpbarron: just downloaded and verified the new tar.gz, unpacked it into ~/development , ran the same recompile.sh script as before
shinohai: http://archive.is/iGXas <<< further mmporg lulz
shinohai: oh yes mircea_popescu i met you in game, was gonna pair up with danielpbarron one day but system froze after a few minutes walking :/
mircea_popescu: you know, someone had a similar problem due to ancient gfx card / old drivers or somesuch. iirc there's a solution to tone down world items.
danielpbarron: hah i just closed out my client to re-apply exactly those changes
hanbot: ah, danielpbarron beat me to it. was gonna post my config file, had similar issues as shinohai
shinohai: thanx
mircea_popescu: o look at that, chetty!
shinohai: Powered by latest chettymodz lol
asciilifeform: http://ria.ru/society/20160805/1473700232.html << unrelated, ru lulz. 'ru national guard refuses to enforce evictions' of squatters, debtors
deedbot: [Trilema] Eulora Forward Looking Statement, August 2016 - http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-forward-looking-statement-august-2016/
asciilifeform: moar lulz, https://www.yubico.com/2016/05/secure-hardware-vs-open-source << who recall this turd? from the age of mtgox? it is now IMPROVED!1111 with moar closedsoresness!111 and has lengthy and hilarious justification thereof.
asciilifeform: in more recent noose, linus approved switch of /dev/urandom algo, http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1607.3/00275.html
mircea_popescu: is this good for bit-coin ?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515260 << eg repl-in-crystalspace? or must run crystalspace but then can attach an emacs repl to it?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-05 08:46 jurov: i just have embedded ecl in eulora and made quite a complete functionality available to it
mircea_popescu: sure, and there's a nasdaq tmsr, and some canadian band ; and thorium-molten salt reactors and what have you.
hanbot: sue the salt sue the salt
mircea_popescu: actually scratch that, apparently nasdaq no longer knows of it.
mircea_popescu: but they made pc peripherals 20 years ago
ben_vulpes: whip the salt, sue the nasdaq
hanbot: http://cranbrookart.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ruth2010-7-hi-e1411752849600.jpg << front & center on "program description" page for fine arts at some michigan uni. no explanation, but does point out that yes, those are potatoes.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha what
hanbot: nfi
mircea_popescu: wtf is with the potatoes already ? you know they have a fucking STATUE of like... corn, in ohio ?
mircea_popescu: this shit is ~what pig-run world would be like.
hanbot: you mean the concrete cornfield? i wish it were a single statue.
mircea_popescu: and why are they in the corner ? been punished ?
mircea_popescu: wait, there's more ?
mircea_popescu: in other, just about equal level weblulz, there's https://archive.is/BPQc1
hanbot: maybe it's interactive, you visit and pummel the subjects with the spuds.
hanbot: next piece is just the wall, entitled, "i promise it's just ketchup"
mircea_popescu: apparently r/btc exists to collect the various idiots who never heard of obama and think the russians invaded atlanta, georgia like a decade ago.
mircea_popescu: hanbot is it like, for special needs ?
hanbot: iono dude, this project is making me think there's no regular needs institutions up there
hanbot: lol "Want (MP) the one who put out that hot notice on sipa one time?"
asciilifeform: #define TMSR (1<<5) /* Timer soft reset. */
asciilifeform: 'The July 2016 estimate was not part of the agreement, and certainly not a deadline. It was (at the time) a reasonable expectation based on the agreement terms. Speaking only for myself, I made the promise with sincerity, and intend to uphold it best I can (despite the almost immediate violation by one of the parties).' << can anyone translate this to human language ?
asciilifeform: moar gems,
asciilifeform: '...when Gavin was leading development it seemed like there was no reason to panic or rock the boat. He's reasonable and not a member of the perfectly decentralized everyone-runs-a-full-node-at-home-in-moms-basement-on-bare-metal fairy tale woo-woo cult.'
shinohai: my sides
asciilifeform: '...What people are failing to understand about cryotocurrencies is that insofar as there is friction entailed in forking away we will see some government-type behavior from dev teams. We need to understand both that this will always happen... The trick as an investor is to not get spooked during that period where the pressure is building but still not big enough to overcome the friction. Where it looks like the wall will hold foreve
asciilifeform: r if you just extrapolate. It eventually must fall, as the burden of forking away is not that large...'
asciilifeform: pinoys workin' overtime
ben_vulpes: what schelling point
mircea_popescu: what the fuck am i re...
mircea_popescu: fuck, i linked it again didn't i.
mircea_popescu: this is like when you keep waking up in bed with ugly women.
mircea_popescu: i gotta stop drinking.
asciilifeform: the sheer gas pressure of the turd is mind-bending
asciilifeform: reading that thread, i feel like eskimo drinkin' rotgut
mircea_popescu: im sure it's all investors.
asciilifeform: (esp. on account of not having a reddit habbit personally)
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is the special preserve r/btc where the idiots went once theymos took away their shitposting rights in r/bitcoin
mircea_popescu: considering a large part of the historical beef with tardstalk was over mismanagement of shitposting rights for idiots, the adventure of r/bitcoin is not particularly encouraging.
mircea_popescu: seems to be the case that for as long as you interact with idiots, what you do doesn't really matter all that much.
mircea_popescu: nowadays a rather banal observation, but i guess not quite as crystallized in 2012.
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515617 << Cranbrook is a prep school, not uni (That's where Mitt Romney did high school, iirc)
a111: Logged on 2016-08-05 18:58 hanbot: http://cranbrookart.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ruth2010-7-hi-e1411752849600.jpg << front & center on "program description" page for fine arts at some michigan uni. no explanation, but does point out that yes, those are potatoes.
mircea_popescu: now i wonder if he had to sit facing the wall.
PeterL: I seem to remember they have a nice museums for art and science on the campus, my dad would take me there a couple times a year as a kid
mircea_popescu: why don't they showcase that then i wonder.
hanbot: PeterL of interest was their "Academy of Art", degree-granting. not their prep school.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more interesting, "who's this suddenly very active jeremy rubin character"
asciilifeform: why the replacement-gavin.
asciilifeform: who else.
asciilifeform: i did say !
mircea_popescu: changed block headers, the works.
asciilifeform: it isn't as if golem-clay is a limited resource.
asciilifeform: never a shortage.
mircea_popescu: but yes, having the "fork" nonsense defeated, and the "we'll promote a shitcoin" defeated leaves the usg.lizzards ... one option.
asciilifeform: https://gist.github.com/JeremyRubin/6eec0427edec6e68755ae274b27baae5 << and hey, hey, hey, let's add race conditions to gavincoin
asciilifeform: didja know, it needed some.
mircea_popescu: no it's not gavin coin, because old wedding picture was associated to random string! it's jeff rubin now!
asciilifeform: 'у големов нет проблемов' (tm) (r) (pelevin)
mircea_popescu: anyway. it's altogether unclear how on earth one will wipe them this time. intelligently they're no longer using a gavin, but ~an anon hydra.
mircea_popescu: and the various noise groups are both incapable mentally of using a wot and actually very affraid of locking out newbies because they perceive an (wholly hallucinated, but w/e, they're immersed in socialist ideology) existential threat : "they'll die without noobies"
asciilifeform: the only piece that 'compulsively welcomes noobs' is the ablative shield.
asciilifeform: i walked past the fed bldg in washington not long ago, and did not notice a neon sign asking for noobs to go in.
mircea_popescu: yes, but socialist mind is affraid of killing, for reasons.
asciilifeform: killing, with honest and purposeful hand - yes. 'embrace & extinguish' ? plenty.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/hbIQb << if it wasn't obvious.
mircea_popescu: (grad student)
mircea_popescu: which is the correct strategic choice, once the opponent has demonstrated the ability to behead your "academic" assets, zerg him with the academic aspie assets. they surely got the "man"-hours anyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as pioneered by elaine shi et al.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these are literally inexhaustible.
mircea_popescu: in other, not really related lulz : https://www.internations.org/
mircea_popescu: "if you're the sort of guy who almost escaped the homeshitland, wouldn't you like to register in a cigna-powered "community of trust" ????"
mircea_popescu: totally, if it's by invitation only i'll feel sooo fucking special.
mircea_popescu: (cigna, for the noobs, is the usg dept of "insurance" human records)
asciilifeform: most usa 'expats' are as close to escaping truly as i am to the moon by jumping with all my might.
shinohai: $up sexysophia
deedbot: sexysophia voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: hi sexysophia who are you?
mircea_popescu: well... intelligence is sexy amirite.
shinohai: http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ <<< she says here for this, speaks spanish?
mircea_popescu: where does she say ?
mircea_popescu: besides, we speak spanish don't we ?
mircea_popescu: so tell her to speak in chan liek normal ppls.
mircea_popescu: hola sexysophia
sexysophia: HI MIRCEA_POPESCU
mircea_popescu: como anda
sexysophia: TE DEJE UN MENSAGE
mircea_popescu: ok, escribir b68fe7aa sobre sus tetas y tome una photo. como lost otras chicas.
mircea_popescu: fucking spanish imperative i never get it right. escribe y toma, is it shinohai ?
shinohai: escribe eso
mircea_popescu: one of the best parts of ba this time of years is the invasion of freesia. wunderbar.
mircea_popescu 's house is uniformly perfumed.
sexysophia: MIRCEA_POPESCU
mircea_popescu: hehe mirror.
mircea_popescu: nice sexysophia , now post your bitcoin address.
shinohai: nice
sexysophia: 1GAc7mr1j14n4opVDwQnexVULwNJ5fQztz
mircea_popescu: alrighty, sending it now.
mircea_popescu: so where are you from ?
sexysophia: COLOMBIA
mircea_popescu: medelin hm ? how's the weather there
mircea_popescu: $up sexysophia
deedbot: sexysophia voiced for 30 minutes.
sexysophia: GRACIAS
mircea_popescu: mi gusto. decile a tus amigas tambien :)
mircea_popescu: como encontraste el articulo en trilema ?
asciilifeform: soooo, http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-forward-looking-statement-august-2016 << 'From a technical perspective, the RSA migration is intended to work on the following scheme : RSA privkey is generated correctly ; this key and the server's key are used to pass OTPs between client and server' is fundamentally Right Thing.
asciilifeform proposes to implement this subsystem for s.mg.
mircea_popescu: hm. like, s.mg to hire s.nsa as a subcontractor ?
mircea_popescu: would it cost a lot ? would it take very long ?
asciilifeform: answer would depend on what is specced, but if spec will substantially reflect linked trilema article, then, likely, not, and not.
mircea_popescu: well... i guess specifics of this will be tied to specifics of that.
asciilifeform: correct.
mircea_popescu: gotta admit the idea is promising. so lessee...
mircea_popescu: hm. im guessing we'll get together with diana_coman and write a spec ? unless you want to propose one ?
mircea_popescu: currently the "what happens past key generation" and "there's an otp" part is left pretty loophole-y
asciilifeform: diana_coman will be able to describe necessaries, e.g., bit rate.
asciilifeform: and the constraints of the built & runtime.
mircea_popescu: "largest message size" is more a sticking point.
asciilifeform: not really, given that mircea_popescu already solved this problem in his article by describing 'otp pool'
asciilifeform: the one sticking point may be entropy starvation on certain systems (it is my understanding that a number of eulora players are stuck on winblowz)
mircea_popescu: possibly yeah.
mircea_popescu: i'm also not entirely certain a symmetric cypher or perhaps hash-and-rehash scheme won';t be better.
asciilifeform: that'd be more or less standard gpg mechanism.
asciilifeform brb, food, will come back to this thread.
shinohai: dat metadata tho
shinohai: mine is no better than phf 's
shinohai: worse perhaps
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so im thinking here, without a byte/sec sort of idea of what messaging is liable to look like, we can't really spec anything anyway.
mircea_popescu: $up pepegrillo
deedbot: pepegrillo voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-06#1515769 << yes. also will need some detail re the desired glue (where subsystem plugs in? etc)
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 00:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so im thinking here, without a byte/sec sort of idea of what messaging is liable to look like, we can't really spec anything anyway.
mircea_popescu: that part is not hard : a) you get a client ; b) you write it a drop-in wrapper for the messaging - this should be one function/class + the keygen. the same class should be used by server the same way, which we'll do the integration of.
asciilifeform: perhaps diana_coman will be able to give rough picture of the bit rate.
mircea_popescu: yeah when she pops in i'm sure.
asciilifeform: (this will determine how much optimizatory massage the item would need.)
mircea_popescu: basic cryptoquestion i do not expect an answer to : is there a way to evaluate strength loss by hash pass in a scheme where otp is hashed and the hash used as next pass otp, for N passes of this ?
shinohai: $s bitfinex
a111: 199 results for "bitfinex", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitfinex
shinohai: $s blockchain.info
a111: 619 results for "blockchain.info", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=blockchain.info
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hash as stream cipher ?
mircea_popescu: hash as say sha512
mircea_popescu: but anyway, it's ok that there isn't : there ALSO isn't a way to evaluate strength loss due to "rng" starvation.
asciilifeform: the one obvious gotcha is that if enemy can decipher (perhaps via known plaintext) ONE instance in the stream, he has the rest !
mircea_popescu: so it's impossible to make a rational decision here, from both ends. win-win, as they say.
mircea_popescu: the next, but not the previous.
mircea_popescu: if he decyphers the 12th in a 12pass scheme he gets 1 message.
mircea_popescu: if he decyphers the 1st he gets 12 messages.
mircea_popescu: well, at least theoretically.
asciilifeform: iirc bernstein's 'salsa' thing works on this method.
mircea_popescu: anyway because messages are highly structured to begin with, there's a whole lotta attacking surface available.
asciilifeform: it is a common way to stream cipher.
mircea_popescu: (a large part of this project is me trying to field-evaluate crypto schemes in the first place)
shinohai: has anyone checked the rng for the new blockchain.info `wallet`
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i'm not discussing here "a way to community consensus". the question is quite specific : given 12 passes, tell me how much strength i lose adding a 13th.
mircea_popescu: as a scalar, please.
mircea_popescu: shinohai nope. how would you ?
asciilifeform: unfortunately crypto schemes are not really experimentally testable on 'human' timescales - in the sense that even the dumbest algo appears to 'work great!111' until one day, likely quietly, it does not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cipher strength is now a quantifiable, scalar no less ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm more concenred about obviously-not-working in practice. same principle as phuctor, really.
shinohai: i dunno.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in order for management to make decisions, all items must be put in the form a > b.
asciilifeform: well-ordered != scalar
mircea_popescu: i didn't mean it that way. i meant, all items must be reduced to TWO scalars.
asciilifeform: to an ordering - sure.
mircea_popescu: in this case : here is the security loss from adding a 13th step to the 12 step scheme : 79. here is the security loss from not adding it, because rng starvation : 45.
mircea_popescu: only in this context the decision to "add it" or "not add it" can be said to make any sort of fucking sense.
asciilifeform: the unfortunate thing about hashes is that they are every bit the voodoo that block ciphers are.
asciilifeform: 'this appears to jumble the bits well, ergo cryptographically strong'
asciilifeform: 'i cannot reverse it, thereby no one can!' etc.
asciilifeform: this kind of thing is a large part of why crypto implementation tends to show the attributes of religious ritual
deedbot: [Trilema] No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2016-statement/
asciilifeform: 'hiring soothsayer, hire cheapest'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re glue, we'll be able to run a test server for it anyway.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: chick from earlier says to `profoundly thank you`
shinohai: actually she was a very nice lady
mircea_popescu: $up dvsdude
deedbot: dvsdude voiced for 30 minutes.
dvsdude: hey mp .....how goes it?
mircea_popescu: profoundly, thank you.
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