Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-02-08 | 2016-02-10 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00056712 = 16.3898 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6755 @ 0.00056712 = 3.8309 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26133 @ 0.00056357 = 14.7278 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00056624 = 8.2954 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00057179 = 6.4898 BTC [+] {4}
deedbot-: [Qntra] "Bitcoin Group" Fiat Mining IPO ~70% Under Goal - http://qntra.net/2016/02/bitcoin-group-fiat-mining-ipo-70-under-goal/
punkman: "At least, if you pay Apple’s premium for Apple design, you do get more design than you get from Microsoft, Google and other laptop manufacturers.  It’s not design created in your interest or for your convenience, but there certainly is plenty of it."
assbot: SobotkaLeaks: Boiling the Czech Prime Minister » V4Revue ... ( http://bit.ly/1XfgiRY )
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1232/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jul-2016/#b23
assbot: Image hosted on Sli.mg ... ( http://bit.ly/1XfhCnY )
punkman: "-I'm the 38th author... -Wow, that sucks. -I hadn't finished. I'm the 38th author called "Wang" -Oh." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26799652
assbot: Guidelines for the use and interpretation of assays for monitoring autophagy (3rd edition). - PubMed - NCBI ... ( http://bit.ly/1T2A4Q8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00057615 = 2.8231 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00057661 = 5.6508 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6244 @ 0.00057695 = 3.6025 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ANd the AWS cost minimization wank returns https://archive.is/55zxR
assbot: Start a Classic node in AWS in under 20 minutes - blockchain included! : btc ... ( http://bit.ly/20lFOoE )
BingoBoingo: In other butthurt chronicles https://archive.is/N0HXA
assbot: People so upset about the difficulty they are SMASHING their miners to pieces ... ( http://bit.ly/20lGzhj )
ben_vulpes: blockchain inclolded
punkman: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 397535 | Current Difficulty: 1.4411644784734866E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: None | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
punkman: diff only tripled last 12months, bitcoin's dead
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 16:20:52; punkman: terminal: just salty that we didn't buy mp's cheap eth
BingoBoingo: Brave camho ventures into the bitcointalk cesspool https://archive.is/64HCm
assbot: Cryptoqueen - Let's talk about how hot *I* am. [NSFW] ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCy3J2 )
BingoBoingo: Spoiler alert, it was a trap.
assbot: Jolie Holland - Old Fashioned Morphine - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCymU9 )
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400226 <<< get her to come put sharpie in pooper for you BingoBoingo
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:42:56; BingoBoingo: Spoiler alert, it was a trap.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Nah, blew too much money on that when I was drinking. Gotta hodl.
shinohai: I stay away from the Bitcoin ladies meself. Gotta save and buy new equips.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400190 << trivial - if trb marks a tx nonstandard - it is nonstandard!11
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 04:30:17; mircea_popescu: so far it'd be a knob connected to not very much. once we have an actually meaningful protocol, then.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400212 << recall, you can find my aws banhammer on the ml.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:20:54; BingoBoingo: ANd the AWS cost minimization wank returns https://archive.is/55zxR
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ALready got it deployed and refresh banlist occasionally. Just like the lulz of their image only existing for single AWS site in Oregon.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400214 << this may actually be a rational thing to do - scorched earth
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:28:25; BingoBoingo: In other butthurt chronicles https://archive.is/N0HXA
asciilifeform: in light of rumour of usg buying up cheap old asic
BingoBoingo: Seriously, because fuck Dave who buys old mining equipment at a loss and has his powerbill paid by Satan
BingoBoingo: Not a rumor
BingoBoingo: Megabigpower is the OP
BingoBoingo: Dave, lesser partner previous asic scam venture fronts it.
BingoBoingo: Back in late 2012 there were 4 kinda serious presenting operations promising Asics. Asicminer, Avalon, and BFL. Dave was with the other one.
BingoBoingo: Blame for the failure went to the venture's major partner Tom
asciilifeform: re: 'apple fans coming to hate apple software', this is when folks learn that ~liking~ is optional: you use a sov institution because ~no alternative~
asciilifeform: (and note, if, satan help you, you need a laptop comp that ~actually works~, or a pocket terminal that doesn't resemble an infested xp box, there is very much no alternative)
punkman: except it no longer "actually works"?
asciilifeform: vs the supposed alternatives - works
asciilifeform: if i need a unix box with lid suspend, stuck with crapple. ditto re: sane handling of hotplugged external displays. and 1,01 other items.
asciilifeform: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11061111 << lulzy, full of folks crying over linux circa early 2000s
assbot: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/20HUjse )
ben_vulpes: takes a rather lot to override apple-scale stockholm
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400258 << what stockholm. It's the only working portable comp vendor.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:01:24; ben_vulpes: takes a rather lot to override apple-scale stockholm
ben_vulpes: not apple stockholm i suppose nearly so much as usa stockholm
ben_vulpes: i for instance just bought three of the things, but only because of the Apple Developer Ratchet
asciilifeform: actually the usa trap is quite similar
ben_vulpes: o yes?
asciilifeform: aha, thinkaboutit
asciilifeform: !s gravity well
assbot: 38 results for 'gravity well' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gravity+well
asciilifeform: incidentally i don't develop for crapple nor ever intend to, and still stuck with it
asciilifeform: in fact, it is for running & building entirely posixy things
ben_vulpes: not irc on the train?
asciilifeform: nah thats what ipnohe is for
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i've never met a crapple user who despised it as much as i did.
assbot: Cam Newton Never Had A Chance | FiveThirtyEight ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlyTLD )
asciilifeform: i don't like, need or want the graphics, the idiot skeumorphisms, the 'ease of use', the payware, or the compatibility
ben_vulpes: preach
asciilifeform: i just need a motherfucking knapsack unix box that never has to be powered down, hotplugs displays, and '4k' lcd.
asciilifeform: this is sold by... one vendor.
ben_vulpes: i need a workstation for doing work, and a comms box for doing comms.
asciilifeform: i have a workstation, it is for doing things i actually give half a fuck about.
asciilifeform: and then there is the other box, for work.
asciilifeform: the aluminum anchor.
ben_vulpes: macbook macht frei
asciilifeform: and, speaking of which, bbl.
assbot: Amazon.com: Samsung SSD 850 EVO 1TB, MZ-75E1T0B_EU: Computers & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlCkC6 )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400221 << no, it's just mayogendered. this is the primary cause of butthurt in the obeetus : first year they eat, they increase 10x.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:35:02; punkman: diff only tripled last 12months, bitcoin's dead
shinohai not having much SSD experience.
mircea_popescu: but then because of that very increase, ironically, even if they eat 2x as much the 2nd year, they can only maange a measly 3x
mircea_popescu: and it goes downhill from there
mircea_popescu: fuck gravity!
mircea_popescu: !up Steve__
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 23:00:43; BingoBoingo: SSD market pretty much consists on Samsung, Intel, and other firms that just use surplus parts from samsung
shinohai: Good I must be on right track.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Should be fine. If used for sensitive purposes RAID it up per alf's advice
mircea_popescu: anyway, looking at the graphs bitcoin ~was~ actually dead march to about sept 2015/
shinohai: I figured why not go ahead and shop for 1TB drive since I am using it for node purposes, though pricier than I had imagined.
mircea_popescu: people are fucking late. shoulda derped about how dead it is back then.
mircea_popescu: shinohai for that reason! 500gb is enough for now. 1tb in a few years, will be cheaper.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Check Newegg
BingoBoingo: Newegg has 500 for about 150 and 1tb a bit over 300
shinohai: Will do. Also anyone needing me for menial tasks such as proofreading or Spanish-to-English translations contact me plox
BingoBoingo: That one's off by too much on price
mircea_popescu: oh, they're the same price ? nm me then.
shinohai: 300 for 1 TB O.o wow
shinohai: not bad
mircea_popescu: shinohai do you charge a lot and is your spanish very good ?
BingoBoingo: A bit over, but as cheap as I've seen them
shinohai: mircea_popescu: nope I'll do my best to undercut anyone. pussyfreak can vouch for my Spanish if he comes back, being from Spain and all lol.
mircea_popescu: how about you vouch for your spanish. pick any of my articles that discuss argentina and show me!
BingoBoingo: shinohai: The price amazon is selling the evo for is about the price amazon is selling the pro for. The difference between the two is apparently pro gets bigger warranty, hotter running controller (potential point of failure) and derp about longer write endurance
mircea_popescu: write endurance is notably not a major point of interest for bitcoin node ssds. the way it works is that most of the files are stable forever, and you have a hot end you keep adding to. this is a match made in heaven for ssds, they can use the spare capacity to compensate for your rewrites and once done it's done.
shinohai: I was concerned about write endurance because some folks have said ssd's aren't suitable for nodes. :/
mircea_popescu: oddly enough, the io constraindness of the bitcoin makes for better ssd fit.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400249 << our friend tom van dyke, the sweet blood and tears guy ?
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 12:14:06; BingoBoingo: Blame for the failure went to the venture's major partner Tom
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400247 << all good things have an end ; shitty things have numerous ends.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 12:14:00; asciilifeform: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CavCl3PWcAEuJ_7.jpg << paulgrahamocalypse??!!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I believe so. Isn't he the one who did the FPGA thing with BuzzDave and professed to be doing the ASIC thing?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the winds have pointedly turned against apple. the time when they did that "we'll brick your device if you used other parts in it" thing i'd arbitrarily pick as the jumping the shark moment. but in any case : apple is for the next decade a company to sell, not to hold and CERTAINLY not to buy.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeh. course, fpga thing even then counted more like amateur hour than anything.
mircea_popescu: which i suspect is the proximate reason no blame attached to buzzdave
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400259 <<< i'm with ben and the whole rest of the world on this. you display a very entrenched form of stockholm syndrome. not just here - but in all points of confort. can't move out of dc because it's the only swamp in the world with lid suspension and hotplugging something or the other, gotta use apple because insanoarcana, etc.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:05:21; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400258 << what stockholm. It's the only working portable comp vendor.
mircea_popescu: it's all fine and dandy, makes up the very characteristic weird we've come to love under the label alf, but do not expect it's a consideration (or even meaningful) for anyone else.
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly
ben_vulpes: who is john w. wilkinson and is there any reason to keep his json spirit license around?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400280 << this is sold by one vendor in the arbitrary, pointless package you've chosen, and by EVERY SINGLE VENDOR as a desktop. and so on.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:21:54; asciilifeform: this is sold by... one vendor.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes be specific ?
ben_vulpes: bitcoin/src/json/LICENSE.txt
mircea_popescu: eh, wipe all licenses. tmsr does not honor agreements between parties not attached to the wot.
ben_vulpes: in line with my thinking
mircea_popescu: for the lulz :
assbot: Page not found | Bitcoin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qp60cG )
mircea_popescu: you WOULD THINK
mircea_popescu: but naaaaah
mircea_popescu: it's just the plastic wanna-be crap, has nothing to do with bitcoin
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qp638p )
mircea_popescu: ah but this si trivially fixed!
mircea_popescu: can anyone with thebitcoin.foundation privileges plox redirect http://thebitcoin.foundation/src to http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/ thankee
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qp638p )
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1LrFPT8 )
ben_vulpes: paging mod6 to the preactor control room
mircea_popescu: as you can see my dear vulpes, it's not that we're BORN any better. it's that we've been doing something about it since then.
mircea_popescu: in other news of no particular interest, long sloppy blowjob the night before means you'll be picking red hairs out of your crotch for the rest of the morning.
ben_vulpes: hair splinters for everyone
ben_vulpes: in other news we call this occasionally-accumulating infant smegma "neck cheese" because mothers milk comes back up as ricotta
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ahjahahaha!
ben_vulpes: ahaha mircea_popescu yours is funny too!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57924 @ 0.0005778 = 33.4685 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: ;;seen pete_dushenski
gribble: pete_dushenski was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 13 hours, 38 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <pete_dushenski> off to pickup new specs. if i'm not back this evening, i'll be around under 'pete_d_out' over the coming days. cheers!
ben_vulpes: ;;seen pete_d_out
gribble: pete_d_out was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 0 hours, 5 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <pete_d_out> well, my clock's running out. i'll check back in soon :)
ben_vulpes: ;;seen pete_dior
gribble: I have not seen pete_dior.
ben_vulpes: pete_d_out?
ben_vulpes: doesn't that get you on some kind of vile criminal list in canada?
mircea_popescu: ;;seen fabulous_pete_dolcegrabanya
gribble: I have not seen fabulous_pete_dolcegrabanya.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen hot_stuffs_pete_chanel
gribble: I have not seen hot_stuffs_pete_chanel.
ben_vulpes: something is amiss
mircea_popescu: i never expected him to not show up under his PROFESSIONAL names...
ben_vulpes: no no i think those are different
ben_vulpes: ;;seen pete_driver
gribble: I have not seen pete_driver.
ben_vulpes: good porn name, that.
mircea_popescu: ;;google the mailman always petes the door three times
gribble: Random Events - Pages :: Tip.It RuneScape Help :: The Original ...: <http://www.tip.it/runescape/pages/view/random_events.htm>; Flight of the Phoenix - Arrested Development Wiki - Wikia: <http://arresteddevelopment.wikia.com/wiki/Flight_of_the_Phoenix>; GOOD FELLAS by Nicholas Pileggi and Martin Scorcese - Daily Script: <http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/goodfellas.html>
ben_vulpes: this alphabetical sorting of patches in v flow grates on me for some reason i'm struggling to articulate.
PeterL: they should be in the order they get applied?
ben_vulpes: and its implicit use in pressing.
ben_vulpes: PeterL: the list of patches gets alphasorted before toposorting in all implementations i've seen to date.
PeterL: but why should the alphasort matter?
ben_vulpes: if a v implementation recurses up from the pressed head, it doesn't.
ben_vulpes: from the desired head to press, it doesn't.
ben_vulpes: if instead a v implementation presses each patch in the flow...
mircea_popescu: so don't sort.
PeterL: I guess alphasorting is a cheap way to ensure consistency between presses of equal sets?
mircea_popescu: if it is then it's probably hiding a bug or three
PeterL: meh, I guess thinking about it, I guess if two patches are of equal level, then it does not matter which order they get applied?
PeterL: sort of by definition of equal level?
PeterL: or am I totally confused?
ben_vulpes: draw the graph, it's a useful exercise.
PeterL: so we should not need to alphasort anything?
ben_vulpes: well, "need".
ben_vulpes: but no, not imho.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32400 @ 0.00057604 = 18.6637 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes waves at alf's diddling
mircea_popescu: artifexd , asciilifeform , ben_vulpes , bingoboingo , cazalla , chetty , danielpbarron , davout , diametric , dignork , fluffypony , hanbot , jurov , kakobrekla , mats , mike_c , mircea_popescu , mod6 , mthreat , nubbins` , pete_dushenski , punkman , thestringpuller , trinque , phf , diana_coman : http://trilema.com/2016/the-lordship-list-third-year/
assbot: The Lordship list, third year. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQ3stx )
fluffypony clicks
mircea_popescu: you can thank ben_vulpes for making work for everyone!
fluffypony: hah hah, 10/10
mircea_popescu: PeterL> or am I totally confused? << a patch can only be safely applied to its antecedent. two patches at the same level CAN NOT be both applied by definition.
mircea_popescu: you pick one per level.
PeterL: if they affect different files, they could be the same level?
mircea_popescu: well i have nfi what you mean by "same level", but to my eyes and from graph theory considerations it would mean "patches applied atop the same one patch"
PeterL: well, trying to decide order of patches to apply, if they affect different files then it does not matter which order you use?
mircea_popescu: thye chain you see, X is applied on "that patch with hash h1", ie G ; and in turn Y is applied to "that patch with hash h2", ie X
mircea_popescu: it does, counterintuitively.
ben_vulpes: ill meaning!
ben_vulpes: thrice cursed!
PeterL: so even if different files are affected, you have to specify the order?
mircea_popescu: you necessarily and always specify the order when you write the patch, because it includes the hash of the thing you want it applied on top of.
mircea_popescu: understand, this "different files" is flimsy as fuck. for all you know the "same files" are not really the same at all - their content changed.
ben_vulpes: more to the point with artifexd he bit off gossipd, claimed progress, and then vanished.
mircea_popescu: hey, when richard was gone to the crusades forever they put john on the throne.
mircea_popescu: good law!
mircea_popescu: then he came back there was a bit of trouble, but nothing we can't handle.
ben_vulpes: sure yeah people have been inquiring politely for...
ben_vulpes: ;;seen artifexd
gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 41 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 46 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.
ben_vulpes: nearly 42 weeks now.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell artifexd yo it's going to be much harder to get back in than it will be to preserve your seat now
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: well... much.
ben_vulpes rolls eyes
mircea_popescu: my doctrine is that it's the simplest thing in the world for a lord to get his seat.
mircea_popescu: all he has to do is ask.
mircea_popescu: and if one isn't a lord... well... why would they want it ? fucking milstone around one's neck of the first degree.
ben_vulpes: i'm not sold on diana_coman
diana_coman: I am honoured to be proposed to the list; I might add that I am quite likely to be of the silent type indeed at least for the time being
deedbot-: [Trilema] The Lordship list, third year. - http://trilema.com/2016/the-lordship-list-third-year/
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes next month's s.mg filing might clarify.
mircea_popescu: in any case we're early here, two months til april, and then all of april.
ben_vulpes: legendarily long lead time for feedback here, just getting ahead of things.
ben_vulpes is open to being sold, grew up in america after all
PeterL: only one female on the lordship list? you guys are so sexist! Clearly we need some affirmative action around here?
mircea_popescu: either that or more women that went to school for purposes other than talking about boys.
mircea_popescu: also, i thought kakobrekla was a girl ? no ? because -a ?
ben_vulpes: and the tits!
mircea_popescu: a right, there is that alos.
ben_vulpes: hey mod6 here's an edge case for you
ben_vulpes: press a patch without hashes in the headers
mircea_popescu: thanks got PeterL was confused earlier eh ben_vulpes ?
kakobrekla: chix with dix
ben_vulpes: and mats with tits
mircea_popescu: masTITIS!
diana_coman: ^^^ ftr I can't remember ANY setting later than nursery in which I wasn't in a setup of at least 1:2 female:male
phf: shinohai: Can any asseteers tell me if this is a worthy SSD? << i've been using it's precursor, 250gb 830, as my primary drive for three years now, have nothing to complain about it. unless samsung fucked something up, an 850 will be my next purchase
PeterL: my high school calculus class was 3 boys and about 18 girls
mircea_popescu: diana_coman as long as you enjoyed it...
mircea_popescu: PeterL so invite them over.
PeterL: meh, i don't talk with any of them, that was like 15 years ago
ben_vulpes: PeterL: public school?
PeterL: yup
mircea_popescu: PeterL now you see everyone else's problem
mircea_popescu: well, everyone else's other than me, but anyway!
ben_vulpes: i have a completely unbacked theory that the further you go down the american income/class ladder the more girls you'll get in those classes.
PeterL: actually no, I don't see everybodys problem?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you know for everyone from europe public school = best school. private school is where people with money send their retarded offspring to keep up the pretense.
mircea_popescu: PeterL "nobody kept in touch with the smart women they met so they have no proposals to make so the list is mostly guys"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and you know that public school in america is just daycare.
phf: my highschool class from about grade 8 and on was 16 girls and 5 guys
PeterL: aha, now I get it
diana_coman: hm, we were 11 girls: 22 boys precisely in high school (cs class ie maths+physics+programming)
ben_vulpes: diana_coman: eurozone?
diana_coman: Romania
ben_vulpes: AMERICAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE
mircea_popescu: diana_coman cluj suprareal cca late 1990s had exactly ONE girl in the set of 8 people that were accepted on merit, and about 14 in the set of 17 others who were accepted to pad the class so it may be made.
mircea_popescu: phf where was this ?
diana_coman: bwahahaha, our class was simply and unashamedly skimmed as "top 33" based on admission exam results
phf: moscows, naturally
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the way this worked was, "gpa over X", which meant 8 people out of the region. then everyone went into the normal-great classes. but THEN it came word from the miniostry that they won't run a class for 8 people
diana_coman: after which they proceeded to bash us that "you will end up washing the floors in supermarkets"
mircea_popescu: and so the highschool admitted 17 more people into it, off the end of the list.
mircea_popescu: which you know... who was going to complain about it.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> press a patch without hashes in the headers << i've actually got that one covered in the patch im about to put out there tonight.
phf: there was a slightly different ratio in the B class, which was everyone who didn't make the A class.
mod6: if/when you can get the new patch applied, give it a try and let me know. thx.
mircea_popescu is vaguely envious of phf's adolescentine paradise. i expect they were all lanky slav coughars with uncharacteristically large tits for that type, and spent a lot of time doing stuff in the nude
mircea_popescu: AND YOU CAN'T TELL ME ANY DIFFERENT!
diana_coman: aha, the 8 class thing would've been a great thing though
mircea_popescu: diana_coman actually the way it played out was imo the best possible outcome.
ben_vulpes: mod6: what kind of patch are you shipping? ri patch or v patch?
shinohai: thx phf and congrats to all who have made the Lord's list.
mod6: shipping? it'll just be a whole bundle once we do a bit of testing -- but tonights patch will be a squashed patch of the one from last week, and the additional changes here.
ben_vulpes: it ain't april yet shinohai
phf: but the school was already selective, was ran by a strong Georgian woman. if you didn't perform would get a visit with the principle. "your child will have a very hard time next year. a ~very~ hard time. we advise you move schools immediately". i know because my parents got the talk once or twice
mod6: will basically encompass what will be v99995
mircea_popescu: it's funny how good education ~always~ comes down to a woman with a whip.
mod6: i updated alot of the automate tests, and added a number of them, to ensure that i didn't regress anywhere. so far, seems good.
mircea_popescu: and little bitches a la orwell whining about it.
punkman: opinions: +1 to both additions. would be nice to see artifexd return. fluffy and nubbins can keep their lordships unless they wish to abdicate.
ben_vulpes tries to reconcile 'lord can have seat back for asking' with the booting of fluffypony and nubbins`
trinque: !rated phf
assbot: You have not rated phf.
PeterL: maybe you need a "lord emeritus" status for people who are not presently active?
mircea_popescu: wasn't "have back", was have at all and in general.
mircea_popescu: PeterL no such thing! they can self-apply that, easy enough to verify.
ben_vulpes: !rated phf
assbot: You rated user phf on 16-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: lisper..
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ah
ben_vulpes: perhaps i see a glimmer
ben_vulpes: PeterL: i was thinking about a deadbot- !
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes wasn't a matter of [person who was once branded a lord] [can have seat back for asking]. it was a matter of [person who was born with the mettle and greatness of being a lord] [can have a seat whether they had one or never did just by basically existing in their grandiose state].
phf: hehe, my +v workhorse rating, ty ben_vulpes
trinque: !rate phf 2 provided example CL code for next deedbot, made excellent v-patch viewer, intelligent fellow
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d854434c72d2880f
thestringpuller: trinque: I think you're right about the whole SSD thing. I'm going to resync on my giga-box for more tests, but it seems bootstrapping performance is increased more by adding SSD than adding more CPU's (unless you're adding like 20 cores to the thing but even then)
mircea_popescu: !rated phf
assbot: You rated user phf on 24-Jun-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Fixed our boxen!.
trinque: !v assbot:trinque.rate.phf.2:5167af628daff6a6257f3d4a95319406f789276d76fa8ef57ca1946b511a5add
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for phf with note: provided example CL code for next deedbot, made excellent v-patch viewer, intelligent fellow
trinque: thestringpuller: yes, it's quite IO hungry
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it still mostly uses one core no matter what you do
shinohai: Is there an official court jester post?
mircea_popescu: notrly...
ben_vulpes: they usually get shitcanned shinohai
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Just wait for vexual to hit your pm's
ben_vulpes: haha BingoBoingo has it
ben_vulpes: entertaining feller.
shinohai: I used to get pm's from Vexual EVRY GODDAMNED SATURDAY
mod6: ben_vulpes: here's a peek at the squshed beta 1 & beta 2 vpatches - unless something changes between now and tonight, i'll be sending this one to the ML. All you need to do to apply is get V [v99996], copy `v.pl' to `v.pl.v99996`, then place this patch in the same dir and do: `patch -p0 < V_v99995_beta2.vpatch` and give it a go
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea, my P4 that's overclocked has had the best performance in bootstrapping.
thestringpuller: 64-bit 3.4 ghz OC
fluffypony: shinohai: hah hah, me too
ben_vulpes: mod6: V in V!
shinohai pets fluffypony
ben_vulpes: nifty mod6
ben_vulpes: doubt i'll get to it today tho
asciilifeform: finally my lazy arse has 'irc bounce'
mod6: anyway, will re-walk through this all again tonight, etc. then will sign and send to ML.
BingoBoingo: Congrats asciilifeform
ben_vulpes falls over
shinohai: mod6: new trb is at height 284171
shinohai: *trb node
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> doubt i'll get to it today tho << "there's all this delicious administrative shit to fuck around with early, who has time for codings!!!"
ben_vulpes: hey i was hacking all am
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform congratulations!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400329 << l0l, mircea_popescu must think that my lunch money alone keeps crapple alive ?
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:55:09; mircea_popescu: it's all fine and dandy, makes up the very characteristic weird we've come to love under the label alf, but do not expect it's a consideration (or even meaningful) for anyone else.
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude wtf are you channeling jwz ?
mircea_popescu: "shitting i nthe soup is not a problem, not all the floating turds are mine!"
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2NK12C1.txt )
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares about the effects!
mircea_popescu: the discussion is whether the cause is problematic or not.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes you know for everyone from europe public school = best school. private school is where people with money send their retarded offspring to keep up the pretense. <- +1 to that; I might add the only exception to this rule I found in northern Italy where "private" meant in fact province (autonomous, German-speaking-and-doing province) funded
mircea_popescu: aha. there are pockets like that yeah
asciilifeform: just observing that neither i nor the other million chumps are enthusiastic coprophagics, we were simply given a menu of shit and broken glass, and picked shit
BingoBoingo: Also got broken glass
asciilifeform: in the end, everybody gets both
mircea_popescu: and this matters in the sense that ximenez of spain really was interested in whether the witch had or hadn't orgasmed with the devil.
ben_vulpes: i hate this thread
mod6: <+shinohai> mod6: new trb is at height 284171 << good deal, thanks for reporting :]
asciilifeform: l0l ben_vulpes, how is your rusting aluminum anchor
ben_vulpes: it has *chips* out of it asciilifeform, thank you for asking.
asciilifeform: whaddayado with it? hammer nails?
asciilifeform: or does it start coming apart by its lonesome after a few yrs
ben_vulpes: pretty standard decomposition pattern i think now
asciilifeform has an original 'air' that is still pristine
ben_vulpes: leading edge just torso-ward of the hands starts chipping after some time
ben_vulpes: i am a barbarian though and it must be my fault somehow for expecting my tools to be robust
ben_vulpes: i give precisely zero fucks about lightweight laptops.
ben_vulpes: if it's made of METAL i want to HIT PEOPLE WITH IT
ben_vulpes: and not worry about the delicate internals
trinque: that thinkpad is dead.
trinque: DEAD
BingoBoingo: Aluminum D cell maglite I've used as hammer does not have chips out of it.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400348 << this goes to the ancient turd, still has, e.g., irc in it!!111111
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:02:49; mircea_popescu: can anyone with thebitcoin.foundation privileges plox redirect http://thebitcoin.foundation/src to http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/ thankee
asciilifeform: no good ^
asciilifeform: (0.5.3.1)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is it blizzarding like dairy queen up there
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: where
BingoBoingo: It' snuffling snow here
BingoBoingo: Shoveled at about 4 am and brined concrete. Now snow has doubled, concrete still clean.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: a good chunk of the weight of all of these is 1) battery 2) cpu heat pipes -- for all of which, you can thank idiot intel/x86.
shinohai: I have snow here as well, just strong flurries nothing to write home about.
asciilifeform: fuck x86. with red hot bayonet.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> can anyone with thebitcoin.foundation privileges plox redirect http://thebitcoin.foundation/src to http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/ thankee << yup, np. will resolve later today.
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qp638p )
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1LrFPT8 )
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Roads here are clusterfuck because no one could anticipate 2nd round of snow coming this morning
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, it is the source of where it starts.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:17:35; ben_vulpes: PeterL: the list of patches gets alphasorted before toposorting in all implementations i've seen to date.
mircea_popescu: like it or not, part of us, like the iliterate mother part of napoleon.
asciilifeform: sorted by file handle # ?
asciilifeform: random ?
mircea_popescu: "unspecified"
asciilifeform: fuck unspecified.
mircea_popescu: why specify what needn't be
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: I'd expect midwesterners to know how to drive in snow belt weather... Here we get 2 inches, the roads freeze and everyone freaks out like its The Walking Dead or some shit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because anything that can be deterministic, should be.
asciilifeform: because otherwise heisenbugs.
mod6: to asciilifeform's point tho, i'm not too sure what even exists in the lxr thing, and if is congruent with what's in the V mirror
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Problem is water under snow. Dept of Roads does not brine as generously as I do.
asciilifeform: lxr has a several month-old bleeding edge v.
asciilifeform: but imho linking to the ancient 0.5.3 by default is lunacy.
asciilifeform: it is relevant to nobody anywhere.
asciilifeform: other than archaeologists.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: aha. so even there you'll see cars in ditches with people telling cops "i dunno what happened, i just slippped and ended up in here"
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Yes. Very little snow, but enough to cull weakest drivers.
BingoBoingo: If alarm was raised in time those drivers would have normally stayed home, but because they were not explicitly told road is slick all suffer
PeterL: this morning we had a bit of snow, I slid about 10 yards past the entrance to work, antilock brakes kicked in, had to shift to reverse and go back to turn into parking lot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is nonsense. by that rule you should hang.
asciilifeform: hows that
mircea_popescu: so you be deterministic too.
asciilifeform: i don't ~want~ my computer alive.
asciilifeform: do you ?
mircea_popescu: trb is alive whether you want it or not.
asciilifeform: if wanted alive, would buy a cow.
asciilifeform: trb is alive, v is a knife.
mircea_popescu: cow doesn't give limited milk.
asciilifeform: i do not want knife with a will of its own.
mircea_popescu: hm. you ever seen modern knives as used on people ?
asciilifeform: and i can't fathom why mircea_popescu would.
mircea_popescu: practically, will of own.
mircea_popescu: i don't want anything, whatsoever. and i still don;t care what the effects would be.
mircea_popescu: the notion itself, of the basis you propose, seems to me problematic.
asciilifeform: the notion is that a tool ought to behave maximally predictably.
asciilifeform: otherwise we call it something else, wtf, mechanical girlfriend
mircea_popescu: why should a tool become a means by which you may pretend to enact determinism out of absent such ?
mircea_popescu: it'll just lie to you.
asciilifeform: because it isn't absent if i nail it down.
mircea_popescu: by protocol or by promise ?
asciilifeform: by protocol.
mircea_popescu: this nailing down... stick to nailing the mechanical gfs. reality has no holes.
mircea_popescu: i don't see where this is in the protocol ?
shinohai: BingoBoingo: this might be worth paying to see, drunk or no: https://i.imgur.com/r3xs9aY.jpg
mircea_popescu: what specifically would prevent me from later making a non-alpha-sorting V ?
asciilifeform: where i wrote the routine, which sorts by ascii and then by flow.
mircea_popescu: that is not hte protocol, that is the spec of one implemen tation among many
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nothing at all. this feature isn't even interesting.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: lol
mircea_popescu: and if you want everyone to change his, you are basically building on promise.
mircea_popescu: well the feature isn't interesting in itself, other than for this discussion.
asciilifeform: i see mircea_popescu's point here
asciilifeform: 'thou shalt not rely on the splinters on the chair legs being just-so'
asciilifeform: or somethinglikethat.
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400409 << 'levels' have no useful meaning here. any two patches that don't take a file with hash H and try to transform it into two disparage H' and H'', can be pressed together.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:57:13; mircea_popescu: PeterL> or am I totally confused? << a patch can only be safely applied to its antecedent. two patches at the same level CAN NOT be both applied by definition.
asciilifeform: *disparate
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my idea of "level" was "all patches taking a certain hash as input"
asciilifeform: likewise, they must not attempt to transform X' and disparate X'' into a Y
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in that case yes.
asciilifeform: but this is not what level normally means when looking at a DAG.
mircea_popescu: im not sure what his idea of level was, prolly not too strictly defined.
mircea_popescu: no, but it would be if you're looking at a tree
mircea_popescu confesses to still thinking of v tron in terms of tree not exactly dag.
asciilifeform: only if the tree were specially drawn this way
mircea_popescu: even if trees are necessarily dag's rite ?
asciilifeform: but note, this is not strictly speaking a tree
mircea_popescu: i also confess to mentally having an imaginary pre-G as a master node for all the various G's such as shiva's bitcoins v's etc.
mircea_popescu: or you meant somethign else ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: specifically in that it does not have uniform levels
mircea_popescu: what's uniform ?
asciilifeform: e.g., i can submit a patch which depends only on genesis, and it will be among the current leaves
asciilifeform: this is not permissible in a strict tree, definitionally
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400592 foundation is welcome to link to any chosen 'v' head present there.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 15:43:16; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400348 << this goes to the ancient turd, still has, e.g., irc in it!!111111
jurov: If they can come to unanimous agreement, which one is the longest, praps.
mircea_popescu: how would it be among "Current" leaves. we don't have a notion of time.
asciilifeform: current being the last pressable, strictly
mircea_popescu: but this is not really a cogent consideration. as far as levels are concerned, this "current" one would be just qas much l1 as all the other direct-G descendants.
jurov: and to press the "last pressable" I do what command?
mircea_popescu: there is no last.
jurov: alf said there is!!!!11
deedbot-: [Qntra] US Department Of Education Driving Tuition Increases - http://qntra.net/2016/02/us-department-of-education-driving-tuition-increases/
mircea_popescu: he doesn't know what he's talking about!!1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is 'longest chain' but none of the current vtrons know how to find it
asciilifeform: nor is it clear that it is a useful thing to do
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that longest per se is meaningless.
mircea_popescu: so what if someone made 5000 patches in a row.
mircea_popescu: i say it is not useful or even meaningful.
asciilifeform: i would say that it is meaningful to 'press latest known unorphaned chain signed by x'
mircea_popescu: there is no "latest"
asciilifeform: this is, after all, what i do when developing.
asciilifeform: again, latest means last-known.
mircea_popescu: there is no time sorting whatever.
asciilifeform: it isn't about time!
BingoBoingo: V like everything else only exists in the present
mircea_popescu: do you mean longest then ?
asciilifeform: it is about a->b->c and we don't yet have a d.
asciilifeform: then c is 'latest'.
mircea_popescu: so by latest you really mean something like "virgin nodes"
mircea_popescu: fillies, something. pure and untouched by man.
asciilifeform: let's use the term.
mircea_popescu: aite, i see. really should drop the latest it's confucksing
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400452 << this is invalid format and ought to barf
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 15:16:19; ben_vulpes: press a patch without hashes in the headers
asciilifeform: if not barfs, then broken vtron.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider this problem for a moment if you will : have people a, b and c ; have nodes as follows : G(a,b,c) -> N1 (a, b, c) -> N2 (a, b, c) -> N3 (a, b) / N3' (c) -> N4 (a,b) / N4' (c) -> N5 (c) -> N6 (c).
mircea_popescu: in this situation, "longest chain signed by ab) is 4, longest chain signed by c is 6. what is longest chain signed by abc ? 6 too ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what means slash ?
mircea_popescu: this may turn out to be a fucking problem.
mircea_popescu: alt node in same position in tree
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: trivial case of tie
asciilifeform: if i understand correctly
asciilifeform: tie - is to be broken by the operator. always.
mircea_popescu: of what ? no, it's not a tie, is c running off with the count
asciilifeform: c has 'longest chain with c'
asciilifeform: what's the problem ?
asciilifeform: don't want it? don't ask for c
mircea_popescu: does he have longest chain with abc ?
punkman: i'd say longest by abc is N2
asciilifeform: with a|b|c
mircea_popescu: like that it works.
asciilifeform: punkman: has it
asciilifeform: punkman has it, rather.
mircea_popescu: this gets to the core of what i was asking of phf to do with those lists.
mircea_popescu: which im still not sure if it's clear or not.
phf: it's not, i need to reread relevant threads, and this one
mircea_popescu: what i said then phf was, i must be able to tell a) which people in total contributed and b) on what sets of people does the present press depend.
asciilifeform: the 'longest chain sans orphans having sigs S1,S2...Sx' is quite essential.
mircea_popescu: this is the counterposed thing. in this case, i would wish for N6 to know that a) abc and b) c ; whereas for N4 that a) abc and b) a OR b and finally for N2 that a) abc and b) a Or B or C
asciilifeform: it lets folks actually press a release, for example, without requiring 'papal infallibility' for the release signers; and, likewise importantly, it lets developer press 'i want a thing will all of my shit but not the discarded erroneous crud'
mircea_popescu: i could hash out a more complex example if it may help, since this NOTATIONAL FORMALISM (see that alf!!!) actually solves the problem of saying graphs. something i wasn't going to do before not because you can't display them, but because im too lazy to draw em.
asciilifeform: i will also note that all of this was part of my original concept for vtron
BingoBoingo: In other news... Do these "storage cups" look a lot like baffles to anyone else? https://archive.is/rn2nx
assbot: Amazon.com : JMPF (8) .995" Maglite C-Cell Preformed Aluminum Storage Cup Non Freeze Plug : Sports & Outdoors ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5ohLG )
asciilifeform: but did not make its way into the prototype
mircea_popescu: the situation is :
mircea_popescu: G (a, b, c, d, e, f, g) -> N1 (a, b, c, d) / N1` (e) / N1`` (f, g) -> N2 (a, c, d, e, f) / N2` (b, g) -> N3 (f, c) / N3` (a, b, c) / N3`` (a, d, f, g) -> N4 (a) / N4` (b, c) / N4`` (a, c, d, e) / N4``` (a, f)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wtf are those
mircea_popescu: the task is : to compute a) and b) for N2`, N3`` and all N4s.
asciilifeform: holy shit is mircea_popescu's example hard to read
asciilifeform: srsly, trees as 1liners, l0l
mircea_popescu: it's easy if you know what you're doing (r) (tm) (fy)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "storage cups" that go into tubular aluminum flashlight body... Come with replacement end cap featuring drilled hole.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why???
mircea_popescu: because there's a humongo market of ... flashlights, of all things, in the us. and trying to invent value for it so the assburger'd males keep buying them
asciilifeform: holy shit wut
mircea_popescu: it boggles the mind, what the fuck people are doing with flashlights over there these days.
mircea_popescu: they're insane.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Homebrew silencer for people without machine shop or work ethic
mircea_popescu: actually to risk going on a limb : the us is an ex-industrial pwoerhouse, made pseudo-rich by uninspired finalcial arrangements. the degeneracy that necessarily came from that picked a tiny topic and is making the glory of past days play out all over it. that topic is flashlights.
mircea_popescu: they can't make a plane or maintain the roads, but by god have you seen how superior their flashlights are over the orcs' ?
BingoBoingo: seriously
asciilifeform: now that i think about it, i even own one of those cast iron monsters
asciilifeform: 'tis what they had at the shop.
mircea_popescu: it took me a while to buy one that wasn't uv-led powered.
BingoBoingo: But flashlight are the only thing US does, so now cottage industry around making them into other things
asciilifeform: you can easily bludgeon a man, or break a door, with such
mircea_popescu: fucktards.
mircea_popescu: you know, blue leds
asciilifeform: they use white led here
mircea_popescu: yellow, bitch.
asciilifeform: perfectly usable white here.
mircea_popescu: well i never ran into one, but anyway.
asciilifeform: i have both kinds, from same maker, the krypton incandescent one is a club now
asciilifeform: 1/5th the brightness of the diode
phf: i thought police carries those oversized maglites for the purpose of using them as batons in a pinch
BingoBoingo put cheap led in club
asciilifeform: and wtf, i don't read with these, would happily buy even red led
asciilifeform: phf: aha
BingoBoingo: <phf> i thought police carries those oversized maglites for the purpose of using them as batons in a pinch << yes. For this 4, 5, or 6 D cell models
BingoBoingo: Also thinner C cell model for people concerned about weapon retention
asciilifeform: i thought we were thinking specifically of the 6 'd'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There's a full range of them
mircea_popescu: so d is for anal, c is for normal ?
asciilifeform: 'c' is for ansi standard police broomstick
asciilifeform: d - extended!111
BingoBoingo: But seriously these things are useful for beating down most things. Better made for that than some hammers I've seen
phf: extended version usually deployed by short and fat female cops in american tv shows. "sir, SIR, sir. sir!"
BingoBoingo: They also make AA and AAA versions likely for nostril fucking
mircea_popescu: i'm apparently missing a lot of culture
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400478 << i will admit that i am not certain i have ever met in the flesh, other than chetty, a woman who wrote software
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 15:20:58; diana_coman: hm, we were 11 girls: 22 boys precisely in high school (cs class ie maths+physics+programming)
asciilifeform: saw female bulldozer, crane operators,
asciilifeform: but this - no
mircea_popescu: you should get out more!
jurov: "nor is it clear that it is a useful thing to do" but lxr must show it!!1 lmao.
asciilifeform: where? antarctica ?
mats: you callin me fat, ben_vulpes
mats: its on nao
asciilifeform: jurov: all i said what what it must ~not~ show
asciilifeform: which is ancient crudcoin
asciilifeform: borrowing a page from mircea_popescu's 'this is WRONG now find a non-WRONG thing to do' book.
BingoBoingo actually rather surprised mircea_popescu doesn't already have 6D club in his dungeon, for appearances if nothing else.
jurov: the last trb release is a WRONG thing nao?
asciilifeform: surely that was not the last release ?
asciilifeform: had irc.cpp ?
jurov: 0.5.4 is out yet?
asciilifeform: and in fact it is wrong, because guess what, that turd WON'T SYNC
asciilifeform: without db locks patch at the least
asciilifeform: ergo is wrong.
mircea_popescu: i'm glad i said something.
jurov: ok, i'll look into -test2
asciilifeform: ty jurov
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> where? antarctica ? << no, atomic diriglandia. it's a wonderful place!
asciilifeform: i very much believe mircea_popescu .
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re: codebabez you should totally come visit sometime
asciilifeform: visit what
mircea_popescu: anyway, how about you know, downtown. afaik dc is about 60% female by mass
mircea_popescu: most capitols are, anyway
mircea_popescu would pay money for snapshot of alf awaken at 6:30 am by baby ; after having slept on guest bed over @ portland.
asciilifeform generally doesn't leave home if it can be at all helped
ben_vulpes: i am offend
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i chastise, yes, but i don't believe in destroying the woman. canes, not clubs.
ben_vulpes: we have /electricity/
mircea_popescu: off which end ben_vulpes ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: What about for penetration?
ben_vulpes: and our covered wagons aren't even hauled by oxen any more but horse
mircea_popescu: penis is for penetration, that's good enough for me!
BingoBoingo: Also to chase away wild Obeasts who happen to glomp in
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: poppycock, everybuddy knows wagon don't move 'less an-'orse move't.
ben_vulpes looks sideways at asciilifeform
asciilifeform: ... or wife
mircea_popescu: o look, he's doing my fair lady!
ben_vulpes: hoo-ers.
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, it took 12 (!) tugs to get the HK boat ungrounded from the elbe
mircea_popescu: name the thugs ?
ben_vulpes: you name the sucks?
ben_vulpes: individual licks even?
mircea_popescu: lol shucks!
ben_vulpes: atypically punny day
ben_vulpes: not even raining
mircea_popescu: wait this hk boat / elbe thing was a sexual innuendo item ?
mircea_popescu: my foreskin generally retracts on the first pass, just how wide IS this woman ?
ben_vulpes: nono not at first
ben_vulpes: fisting first?!
ben_vulpes: fisting is for closers
asciilifeform: ungrounded ?
ben_vulpes: mega container ship grounded in the elbe for FIVE DAYS
asciilifeform: and thought stuck cock
ben_vulpes: i am now renaming my cock to CSCL Indian Ocean
ben_vulpes: "baby i need a tug!"
ben_vulpes: grounded in the river elbe
mircea_popescu: tug&plug, it's a legitimate thing.
ben_vulpes: ehuehueahuehueh
BingoBoingo: Just deserts from the mines "With an ax rather than a scalpel, Australia's federal science agency last week chopped off its climate research arm in a decision that has stunned scientists and left employees dispirited. Why? Because the science is settled, there is no need for more basic research, the government says. No doubt many will experience a case of schadenfreude as they see those who have long claimed "the science is settle
BingoBoingo: d" face the inevitable and logical consequence of that stance."
ben_vulpes: HAHAHA
ben_vulpes: rich.
ben_vulpes: christ that's entertaining
mircea_popescu: well, the science is setled alright : there is no science in "climate blabla, back to more productive uses.
mircea_popescu: such as i dunno wtf these schmucks did before becoming "scientists", but i imagine revolutionizing keyboards and inventing better paper clips
ben_vulpes: how about disrupting the blowjob?
ben_vulpes: i guess that'd be sv
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> how about disrupting the blowjob? << picking the long hairs out of the short hairs?
ben_vulpes: subject of sv, it looks like i'll be on hold with intuit until the halvening
mircea_popescu: and in further "who the fuck runs away in heels" news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1axg3As9J1qddd4so1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: which one was inuit again ? the useless one ?
ben_vulpes: they're all useless
ben_vulpes: but intuit goes so far as to lobby against simplifying the american taxtuation so they can do 'ez' taxes for derps
ben_vulpes: all i want is a form for hours and a button that remits appropriately
ben_vulpes: and apparently i have to go through intuit for this
ben_vulpes: small biz is worst biz
mircea_popescu: move to romania, run it from there ; small biz costs you a few % in taxes and you get a person to do all your filings + basic legal support for a coupla hundred dollars/month.
ben_vulpes: that is precisely the plan next time.
ben_vulpes: also not taking fucking fiat.
mircea_popescu: you can take fiat just fine.
mircea_popescu: SEPA member, even easier than in the us.
mircea_popescu: also free.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400226 << hah, she blocked me on twatter a month ago
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:42:56; BingoBoingo: Spoiler alert, it was a trap.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400441 << i had to double check the list, surprised she wasn't already a lord, but we're off in another world this channel isn't always aware of, with quite another perspective it seems
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 15:10:58; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes next month's s.mg filing might clarify.
ben_vulpes: "The cybercriminal reached out to Motherboard through an apparently compromised DOJ email account earlier last week, and claimed to have obtained the stolen data by compromising that account and then using it to access a DOJ portal."
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: i mean how am i supposed to know what's going on in the far-flung provinces
ben_vulpes: have been following the public feedz, yes, but much happens below the surface
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400902 <<< was also banned from btctalk for 5 days for "trolling" according to het twitter danielpbarron
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:11:50; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400226 << hah, she blocked me on twatter a month ago
ben_vulpes: 5 days lol they do timeouts now?
ben_vulpes: "go sit in the corner! you've been bad."
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:14:13; ben_vulpes: "The cybercriminal reached out to Motherboard through an apparently compromised DOJ email account earlier last week, and claimed to have obtained the stolen data by compromising that account and then using it to access a DOJ portal."
asciilifeform: and srsly what's with this habit of linkless quote
asciilifeform: we feed google now ?
ben_vulpes: scusi, scusi
assbot: Hacker Publishes Personal Info of 20,000 FBI Agents | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7dHKr )
asciilifeform: ty ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: also what part of this is seeekrit
asciilifeform: who works for usg is public record
ben_vulpes: their eeeemailz!
ben_vulpes: iono man
ben_vulpes: i had a pertinent question before the payroll people distracted me
ben_vulpes is considering a new irc client
jurov: kakobrekla dang you completely filter unicode on bitbet? my translation now looks like abortion :( https://bitbet.us/bet/1247/parties-smer-sd-and-sns-to-win-supermajority-in/#c5617
assbot: BitBet - Parties SMER-SD and SNS to win supermajority in Slovak parliament :: 0.37 B (46%) on Yes, 0.43 B (54%) on No | closing in 3 weeks 2 days | weight: 84`005 (100`000 to 10`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5uOGb )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: try 'irssi'
jurov: it's not going to be v-ified or somesuch
ben_vulpes: (vil-ified!)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the suggestions continue to stack up
ben_vulpes: an appealing thing about irssi is that it has a solarized light mode
ben_vulpes: i could get my whole experience into solarized light
danielpbarron also recommends irssi
danielpbarron: been using it off and on for a decade
danielpbarron: highly customizable, simple, runs on command line, in screen
asciilifeform: wtf, what light mode, it's a tty proggy
ben_vulpes: i like my colors to match!
ben_vulpes: i motherfucking hate switching over to a dark terminal after using a light text editor
ben_vulpes: mother
ben_vulpes: fucking
danielpbarron: you can color it however you like; I color nicknames based on my rating of them in the WoT
ben_vulpes: no i want the whole screen tan-ish
ben_vulpes: switching from light to dark and back is very painful for my head.
BingoBoingo: It's a shame no one still connects to IRC by touching two wires together rhythmically
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so set light terminal ? or dark text editor ??
ben_vulpes: light terminal, yes. specific color scheme at that. and no no fucking dark text editor because i have to pull up web pages and am right back at the original problem!
phf: ben_vulpes: what's wrong with erc!
kakobrekla: jurov will change that at some point
ben_vulpes: phf: it's fine, great, doesn't bouncer well though.
jurov: kakobrekla: please remove it completely, it's completely misleading
ben_vulpes: phf: the best erc setup i've come up with is to run it through mosh in a terminal
jurov: it changed "ÁNO" to "NO" which is the opposite
kakobrekla: not a single comment ever got removed and i dont think we will start now
kakobrekla: cant you elaborate it differently with a subsequent comment?
BingoBoingo: jurov: Which side of the election are we rooting for?
phf: ben_vulpes: if you're using znc, then http://paste.lisp.org/display/306886 might help
ben_vulpes: phf: this means i have to maintain a mental map for "emacs on my server" and "emacs on my desktop
ben_vulpes: oh god i tried znc
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: tried? it broke ?
phf: i don't have an opinion on it. i have znc, bitlbee and erc all very lightly configured to work together, and i basically don't use anything else for comms
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Give up and just open up your NIC buffer in ed to irc
ben_vulpes: i think i even did erc-znc mode at one point
jurov: BingoBoingo: I listed the biggest douches, rooting against them
BingoBoingo: jurov: Aha. So like the local version of the Trump-Clitler alliance
ben_vulpes: bitlbee huh
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i have a *million* complaints against znc
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: say moar ?
ben_vulpes: let us start with the completely fucking retarded web admin panel
asciilifeform: nobody forces you to use it
asciilifeform: can config with bare teeth
jurov: Interesting there are some bets despite I have not advertised it yet. Local bitcoiners do follow bitbet :)
ben_vulpes: then there's some default password implementation the specifics of which i forget but was miserably bad
ben_vulpes: what else
ben_vulpes: oh can't edit conf files and reload iirc
asciilifeform: wai wut
asciilifeform: or what, you want it to reload itself somehow ?
ben_vulpes: do i misremember?
asciilifeform: should it also massage the wife for you ?
mats: lol
kakobrekla: ofc you can edit conf
BingoBoingo: jurov: How do you know that those bets aren't all from a degenerate like myself who just wants betting action?
jurov: you dream shatterer, you!
BingoBoingo: But no, I don't have any bets on that yet
phf: kill -hup presumably works
jurov: znc indeed is prone to overwriting conf, best to stop it and then edit if you must
phf: somebody here i believe sponsored otp for znc plugin
jurov: kek. but it's true somebody here sponsored otp for znc plugin
phf: ah, right
BingoBoingo: jurov: Ok, now I've bet on it
punkman: where is this znc otp plugin?
assbot: GitHub - mmilata/znc-otr: OTR encryption plugin for ZNC IRC bouncer ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7gNhB )
punkman: ah otr
jurov: iirc it went into official distribution
jurov: heh somebody read otc?
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu i was looking at generalizing the 'oracle' resistance from cramer-shoup to other systems
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: my setup was much like phf's, had a few znc crashes/freezes and trashed the lot for weechat in a tmux somewhere
trinque: tried weechat.el, will probably end up using that when I bother to do something sensible around hightlight notifications
assbot: Ghostface Killah Says “Shithead" Martin Shkreli Should Release One-of-a-Kind Wu-Tang Album | News | Pitchfork ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5xSCj )
trinque: I'll have this done just in time to switch to gossipd
trinque: along with the new deedbot, lol
jurov: gossipd will have irc interface?
phf: dbus to adium
PeterL: just needs a bot here and listening to gossipd to transmit messages between platforms, right?
trinque: jurov: naw, just in time to rewrite
asciilifeform: jurov: my unreleased prototype is driven using (local) irc listener, yes
trinque: oh, how bout that
phf: asciilifeform: it actually speaks a subset of irc then?
asciilifeform: phf: only for frontend
jurov: count on alf to have unreleased prototypes for everything :D
asciilifeform: jurov: they are usually unreleased for ~reason~
asciilifeform: and irc frontend makes sense, thinkaboutit, nobody wants to use a cruddy ui hacked up for the occasion, everyone already has something reasonable that is irctronic
phf: asciilifeform: is the whole thing in c?
asciilifeform: phf: presently
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7vsgzW6Br1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg << i wonder if all teh people that are into this stuff realise that the only reason a woman's skin is soft is specifically that she doesn't go around barefood & naked in chains.
asciilifeform: l0l must be like the fingers of guitarist !
jurov: rly? i thought it's cuz of the lotions they use to tan the hide
mircea_popescu: i suspek the only effectiveness of the lotioning is that it keeps them from doing stuff / touching the spot for a while
deedbot-: [Qntra] Steam Legacy Demolished - http://qntra.net/2016/02/steam-legacy-demolished/
mircea_popescu: not that anyone agrees with me on the topic in teh household(s)
phf: as demonstrated by outside-bombai indian woman feet, walking around barefoot all the time doesn't do your skin any sort of justice
mircea_popescu: depends if treebark is your notion of foot justice.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:25:39; danielpbarron: you can color it however you like; I color nicknames based on my rating of them in the WoT
danielpbarron: wow BingoBoingo the most clickbaity title you ever qntra'd. I was very confused to find it wasn't about the game company 'Steam'
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: What, guy can't spend 28 words on a joke?
assbot: DPRK Launches Satellite Into Space | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7iM5v )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah seriously, none of that. it's ok for blogs but not q
BingoBoingo: Alright
BingoBoingo: Take it down?
mircea_popescu: can stay, just as a policy
PeterL: you could put it on your personal blog?
BingoBoingo: I keep forgetting that thing exists.
danielpbarron: i've seen the game thing pop up on social media, something about they are or might be accepting bitcoin
mircea_popescu: and in other "strange cargo cult worshippers of incomprehensible machine-god" news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7qiu7mzXa1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
BingoBoingo: Something derping about them and Bitpay. Been spending much of the morning looking for stories of steam explosions or other disasters.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not a bad idea. did it get anywhere ?
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:53:11; asciilifeform: and irc frontend makes sense, thinkaboutit, nobody wants to use a cruddy ui hacked up for the occasion, everyone already has something reasonable that is irctronic
mircea_popescu: cheat as much as humanly possible
mircea_popescu: then turn into your wolf form and cheat some more.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was trying to figure out if it is separable from his use of the diffie hellman decision problem as the basis for the system
asciilifeform: also interesting property, in c-s, you lose the chosen-ciphertext attack resistance if you split the message.
asciilifeform: gonna have to cheat in wolf form, somehow.
asciilifeform: see, i'm unwilling to entirely discount the 'quantum' calculator thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64350 @ 0.00056847 = 36.581 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which is why i'd rather not live and die solely by the discrete log problem.
asciilifeform: (or, for that matter, integer factorization. which, for n00bz, i will point out that rsa has never actually been formally reduced to!)
deedbot-: [Qntra] Dotcom Extradition Appeal Set To Begin August 29 - http://qntra.net/2016/02/dotcom-extradition-appeal-set-to-begin-august-29/
assbot: US Department Of Education Driving Tuition Increases | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7kJ1K )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75897 @ 0.00057458 = 43.6089 BTC [+]
PeterL: don't you collect commenters' emails, do you have to ask?
BingoBoingo: PeterL: We do, but it would be bad journalism to disclose such things. And really how often are we actually going to test emails anyways.
BingoBoingo: As long as the email hasn't been used in spam, email isn't going to be the thing that makes or breaks a comment's journey past the spam filter
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i on the other hand am more than willing to die by this imaginary "quantum" computing.
PeterL: how is that comment troll-y?
mircea_popescu: it has exactly 0% chances to exist. if it did exist, however, the changes would be far reaching enough to render any present arrangements void anyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the latter is demonstrably false
asciilifeform: and yes, it is an inflatable tank
asciilifeform: presently - imaginary
BingoBoingo: PeterL: It mentioned the Bern, just kinda assumed it was. Didn't read too closely.
asciilifeform: but speeding up factoring is quite physically plausible in a variety of ways
mircea_popescu: ah that. sure.
mircea_popescu: was specifically discussing "quantum" as the literary fanon concept
PeterL: BingoBoingo but the comment agrees with your article
mircea_popescu: it is pointedly NOT a scientific notion, for the record, not anymore than communism is ; and in no danger of ever becoming one, such as occasionally sf items did become.
mircea_popescu: it belongs in the same heap as the audible / visible lasers, the bullets that spark off rock walls & al.
BingoBoingo: Ah. I guess a point could be made that if Obama's Hope and Change didn't fix the problem Bernie's isn't likely to either.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: atomic bullet!1111
mircea_popescu: and so no, i'm not paying anyone anything to add "lightsaber armor" to my clothing.
BingoBoingo: PeterL: Maybe It's just getting late. My troll/humor doesn't seem to be calibrated right.
BingoBoingo: BRB meat downtime
PeterL: noon is late now?
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't per se object to girl wearing "lightsaber armorer" cocktail dress, if that's the fashion, as long as it grabs her tits and waist right etc.
thestringpuller: lightsaber armorer?
thestringpuller: !s lightsaber armorer
assbot: 0 results for 'lightsaber armorer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lightsaber+armorer
BingoBoingo: PeterL: I woke up at 22:00 local time. Hazard of working Internet full time.
mircea_popescu: "quantum computing proof"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever read feynman's original paper on the subj ?
asciilifeform: so why specifically can we rule the thing out physically
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3831 @ 0.00057244 = 2.193 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: it is not a bad paper. it is also not a bad thing to look for. unlike "cold fusion" and like "dark energy extraction", it has no actual merit for fundamental reasons.
mircea_popescu: "we" can't. i, for my own needs, do, is all.
asciilifeform: also, i will defend the notion that crypto - composes. usefully. the contrary notion is due 100% to retarded implementers, who belong in fermenting vat
mircea_popescu: crypto MAY compose usefully. assuming composition is a solution is in itself braindamage.
asciilifeform: if the composed elements are FULLY independent - composes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is useful the way that the rng xor is useful
asciilifeform: you are ~guaranteed~ the strength of the strongest.
mircea_popescu: also asuming that A USEFUL WAY TO COMPOSE is always available is nonsense. and certainly asuming that the obvious composition is correct.
asciilifeform: not always available - you gotta build it.
asciilifeform: and, again, if the ciphertrons are INDEPENDENT, you can't do any damage by adding a damaged link downstream.
mircea_popescu: just as long as this a) doesn't invalidate assumptions required by one in a way operator couldn't verify and b) they are actually independent, as opposed to "i thought they were"
asciilifeform: well no shit
mircea_popescu: no, but this is important.
asciilifeform: see the 'implementer belongs in fermentation vat' point
mircea_popescu: on the strength of the record to date.
asciilifeform: !s cut abdomen open
assbot: 1 results for 'cut abdomen open' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cut+abdomen+open
mircea_popescu: sure. just, the bleeding here is hidden.
asciilifeform: all crypto bleeds hidden.
asciilifeform: sapper is a better job, at least you're dead right away
asciilifeform: instead of walking around buzzing with maggots for 20 years without knowing
mircea_popescu: hmm looks like qntra ate my comment
assbot: US Department Of Education Driving Tuition Increases | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tb2b0G )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00056825 = 24.0938 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82400 @ 0.00057415 = 47.31 BTC [+] {6}
jurov: !up guest7187
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-116484 < if you care about the curios. spam filter had them before.
assbot: B,TMSR~ Block Cipher Competition on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nW6SOY )
asciilifeform: interesting
assbot: [bitcoin-dev] BIP proposal: Increase block size limit to 2megabytes ... ( http://bit.ly/1nW7bcy )
assbot: trb: trb/release/bitcoin/src/init.cpp File Reference ... ( http://bit.ly/1nW7cxh )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't see what is so hot about the composition thing
asciilifeform: anybody can do that, it was actually the first thing i suggested
mircea_popescu: i don't think anything'sd so hot.
asciilifeform: what i was wondering is how the author of the comment came to think that this fits the specs given
asciilifeform: srsly, classic example of 'cryptographers' playing confusion mind games with own selves
asciilifeform: i think i will go to a racing competition; and submit an 'enchilada cipher' car, a junkyard carcass of old ferrari welded to remnants of a crashed mazerati.
asciilifeform: FASTER THAN EITHER!11111
assbot: Coinodeal.com Western Union Scam -$300 : Scams ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDCKCh )
PeterL: asciilifeform re hasty pudding cypher: didn't you say key tables are evil?
asciilifeform: absolutely.
asciilifeform: and srsly, i don't even see the point in thinking about that one.
asciilifeform: it is junk, plain and simple.
mircea_popescu: !up minzie_
PeterL: hi minzie_ who are you?
minzie_: hi
minzie_: looking for some brokerage in btc
thestringpuller: minzie_: jurov is your guy
minzie_: he isnt online at the moment, is he?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.crypto.com/papers/turtle.pdf << slightly less retarded
asciilifeform: 's✏ø✪ü❒ý✠❞öÒó✍☎✗ö●✏➉✝❞ò✦ó❙ô✺✝✬❄✦ñ❞÷➃ýó♦✂
asciilifeform: ñ✚✖Þô❙ñ✛õ✗ö➍÷➃ø❊ò❖✂✛ôÖô❙ö➍ó✦÷➃ý➴þ❜ÿ✁❞ö✄✂
asciilifeform: þ➍ýù✆☎✪ö➍÷➃ò❵➔✘✦☞ýó✍☎❵ó✍☎✪öÑø✪ñ❞ó✍✝➸û➵üö➒ö✱✰✛þ❨ö➍ù✪ó✟ý❒ñ②ø✪ò✾ñ✚✖✵qðó
asciilifeform: s ✳ ✈❈✝❞ø✪õ❧qðt❧s✉➢✻✈✘➣✔✓■✴✰ú✗÷✟ó✟ü❒ö❐✝❞ø➵õt❉✗✝➸÷➃ö✩✝➸÷✟ö❵þ❨ñ②ø✪þ❨ö➍ù✪ó✟ú✆✝❞ü❒ü✠✂ì✏❞ö➍÷✥✂✤ò✟ý➴ô❙ù➵üö✚✜ú✴✾☎✗ö➍÷✟ö✩✝➸÷✟ö ø✪ñ þ❨ñ②ø✪ò✦ó✍✝❞ø●ó✟ò✄✓❀û➵ýó
asciilifeform: ù❛ö➍÷➃ô✾ú✗ó✍✝➸ó✟ýñ②ø✪òÞñ❞÷■☎✆✝➸÷➃õ✛ÿ➜þ❨ñ✛õ✗ö➶õáó✍✝➸û➵ü❒ö➶ò✄✜✵✴✰ú✗÷✟ó✟üö✚◗ ò☞÷✟ö➶þ➍ú✗÷➃ò➃ý✠✏❞ö❏ò✦ó✦÷➃ú➵þ❨ó✟ú✗÷✟ö❏ù➵÷✟ñ✽✏✛ý❒õ✗ö➶ò✶✝ßø✎✝➸ó✟ú✪÷✥✝❞ü✝ôÖö➶þ✥☎✎✝❞ø
mircea_popescu: god ima have to kick him again aren't i.
polarbeard: there we go
asciilifeform: ✪ý➴ò✟ô➩✖❭ñ❞÷
asciilifeform kicks terminal
mircea_popescu: you need a better macbook.
asciilifeform: better hands.
polarbeard: I'm evaling that just in case
minzie_: xD
mircea_popescu: ➃ << i didn't even know slut brands were a html character.
asciilifeform: nah that is clearly a billiard ball
mircea_popescu: "Bath Salts: As of July 22, 2011 possession of Bath Salts is a Class 4 Felony with the same sentencing as above." ahahaha wut.
mircea_popescu: us-plebs not allowed soft skin aha
PeterL: it's a drug name
polarbeard: just rebrand it to butt salts
asciilifeform: anyway mircea_popescu , m. blaze's 'turtle' is, afaik, the only ~claimed~ provably-hard block cipher (non-otp) that i was able to track down.
mircea_popescu: PeterL what drug is that in sane people speak ?
PeterL: methylenedioxypyrovalerone
mircea_popescu: so my sal inglesa bath salts are immune ?
PeterL: sort of like a bulkier version of amphetamine
mircea_popescu: (magnesium sulphate)
PeterL: nah mag sulphate got demoted from the name, it's fine to use
mircea_popescu: ah ok then :D
PeterL: isn't it great when people take one word with a definite meaning and slap it onto something completely unrelated?
asciilifeform: he also came up with a hash algo, 'tortuga'
mircea_popescu: PeterL basically the us' main export product.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. was looking into this.
minzie_: anyone know some good bitcoin trading software??
asciilifeform: or hm, not him
asciilifeform: but based on 'turtle'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah, you found it before ?
mircea_popescu: minzie_ can you be specific ? what are you trying to do ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well no, just now
minzie_: want to trade in exchanges
mircea_popescu: remarkably undocumented online.
mircea_popescu: minzie_ iirc adlai was peddling in that water.
mircea_popescu: http://www.osti.gov/eprints/topicpages/documents/record/678/3823036.html << if this is to be believed it was introduced by a dude named blaze at upenn, and it's a feistel derivative.
mircea_popescu: "Most modern publickey ciphers are designed to reduce or at least relate closely to some long­
mircea_popescu: studied problem that is believed to be difficult, such as factoring or finding discrete logarithms of
mircea_popescu: large integers. Modern symmetrickey ciphers, on the other hand, can rarely be reduced to widely­
mircea_popescu: studied hard problems and so are frequently designed specifically to resist known cryptanalytic"
mircea_popescu: absolute paydirt. WHY "can rarely be". who told you ? etc.
asciilifeform: not 'rarely'; never.
asciilifeform: to date.
asciilifeform: anyway, took me most of a week to dredge this up,
asciilifeform: and it had to be by looking at ancient sci.crypt crud
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between "can rarely be" and "never is". they do not speak of the same world.
asciilifeform: well yes.
mircea_popescu: what i wish to know is how did he establish his ought.
asciilifeform: prolly oughta have said 'have never.'
mircea_popescu: but it isn't what he actually said.
asciilifeform reads, again
mircea_popescu: when people go all scholarly and shit on me, and start with the "We show" bullcrap i fucking expect them to use the words they mean to use.
asciilifeform: anyway i don't give a fuck what he said, i want to know if the proof actually proves anything of interest.
asciilifeform: if there were 1,001 alleged proofs, i'd throw out this one perhaps, because annoying
asciilifeform: but there is 1 alleged proof.
asciilifeform: and a whole lot of silence.
mircea_popescu: btw, how's the "ethereum ecosystem" doing these days ? all the shit they were going to launch months ago... just around the corner!
mircea_popescu: are the brick and mortar ethereum things in yet ?
asciilifeform: interestingly, blaze uses the term 'cryptovariable' in his code
asciilifeform: this is traditional, archaic nsa term for... key
asciilifeform: it has been a very long time since i saw this.
mircea_popescu: well this item is from mid 90s, sat buried for the interval.
asciilifeform: and wtf is with the character encoding in that pdf.
asciilifeform: martian.
mircea_popescu: smells to me like long dead bait job some 3rd line derp is trying to spring back to life on us, but hery.
asciilifeform: remarkably stale for bait
mircea_popescu: i'd almost be mildly insulted, if it weren't for the fact that my fucking spam filter identified it correctly on the first pass.
asciilifeform: but interesting nonetheless, if i were hitler i would order 10,001 'provably np-hard' ciphers to be created.
mircea_popescu: next year's crop of openbazaars
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to be clear, i'm discussing the 'turtle' paper
mircea_popescu: hey, btw, did THAT vc powered bs mix ever come to anything ?
asciilifeform: vs the two linked
asciilifeform: (or did this, too, come up in the spam filter)
mircea_popescu: wait... i never published this item
asciilifeform: i found 'turtle' by hand
asciilifeform: from ancient crud pile
mircea_popescu: i thought you had just went from a comment i just published. except i hadn't.
asciilifeform: as explained earlier
asciilifeform: note, i have not gone over the proof!
mircea_popescu: me either as i just saw it.
mircea_popescu: so you were independently looking at this and from before ?
mircea_popescu: what linked it ? where ?
assbot: Google Groupes ... ( http://bit.ly/1SesWBc )
asciilifeform: ^ not linked as such, but mentioned
asciilifeform: and no, i don't have a vintage copy of this thing on dead tree, or the like
asciilifeform: i dug up this old luger in the forest, aha. and i've no idea whether it fires forwards or backwards, of yet.
asciilifeform: further dig reveals that it was mentioned in a few places, fwiw.
asciilifeform: http://crypto.com << herr blaze himself, apparently. ask him.
assbot: Matt Blaze / crypto.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1nWcSr5 )
mircea_popescu: nice domain, you know ?
asciilifeform: he's the one who broke randi's cipher
assbot: Matt Blaze: Exhaustive Search Goes to Law School ... ( http://bit.ly/1nWd0qk )
asciilifeform: and the rest of his blog, lulzy
assbot: Matt Blaze: How Law Enforcement Tracks Cellular Phones ... ( http://bit.ly/1nWd4Xl )
asciilifeform: i see nothing that sets off my allergies, astonishingly
asciilifeform: on blaze's www
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider inviting him here ?
mircea_popescu: you do it!
asciilifeform: i'm not a famous k00l d00d
asciilifeform: oh and now i'm curious what the spam said
mircea_popescu: im sure that he had his fill of those. talk of interesting things to him instead.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just that, "look into turtle"
asciilifeform: i'ma write to herr blaze, then.
asciilifeform: let the man speak for himself.
mircea_popescu: re hasty pudding : 2^120 weak keys. heh.
asciilifeform: massive turd
asciilifeform: and when i first saw it mentioned, some years back, i actually thought it was named for shitting oneself
asciilifeform: and that it might be called 'to make hasty pudding'
asciilifeform: but apparently this is not a thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, another thought occurs : maybe the way to go is make the key a matrix and go for something like the maximum volume submatrix problem somewhere in there.
mircea_popescu: have the message specify the conditionation, and then how the fuck are you going to extract it if you don't know what you're starting from
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i actually started with this
asciilifeform: it is tricky.
mircea_popescu: listen this is getting ridiculous lol.
asciilifeform: impossible to say ~average case~ complexity
mircea_popescu: well... yeah i dunno how you'd do that.
asciilifeform: hey maths are the same for everybody.
asciilifeform: can't fault if mircea_popescu and i come up with same arithmetic.
mircea_popescu: what we want is some actual methods to calculate the difficulty curve over the space
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78900 @ 0.00056769 = 44.7907 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: (lulzier when we get ~different~ arithmetic!11 as in the otp mega-thread)
mircea_popescu: rare, luckily.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the more i think about this tyhe more im convinced our problems are really one problem : the absence of a proved mechanism to create the difficulty graph of a primitive.
mircea_popescu: and this should NOT in general be as hard as to actually break any one key.
asciilifeform: incidentally, i suppose that this is when i confess that this is actually my day job
mircea_popescu: ie the problem could be reducxible
asciilifeform: ... judging algorithmic complexities of various algos
mircea_popescu: but you know what i want ? i want it to output a fucking graph!
mircea_popescu: 00,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100|43,49,55,55,57,64,67,65,65,65,65,66,74,74,74,74,74,74,74,75,75,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,76,76,76,76,76,76,76,76,76,76,75,75,75,75,75,74,74,73,73,73,73,73,73,72,72,72,72,72,71,71,71,71,71,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,72,73,71,65,64,65,63,63,63,63,62,62,62,55,55,54,54,55,64,64,64,64,64,64|14,15,17,17,18,22,24,24,
mircea_popescu: 24,24,24,25,33,33,33,34,34,34,34,35,35,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,42,42,42,42,42,42,42,42,42,42,43,43,43,43,43,43,43,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,45,45,45,45,45,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,51,55,57,63,64,65,68,68,68,68,69,69,69,78,78,78,79,80,99,99,99,99,99,99&chls=1|1|1&chm=B,3699a3,0,0,0|B,d01135,1,0,0|D,555555,2,0:0,2
mircea_popescu: holy shit what the fuck happened
asciilifeform: ahahahaha
mircea_popescu: oh wow, bitbet uses google charts, i forgot. anyway. likew one of the bitbet charts!
mircea_popescu: you know, so this algo has N keys, fine, the space is N. caqlculate the complexity for all of them, sort the weakest to the left, draw it for me.
mircea_popescu: in principle, at 100% granularity this would then result in an image 2^256 or however many pixesl wide. fine.
mircea_popescu: let me zoom out.
mircea_popescu: show me the 1024kb graph of arbitrary scheme.
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2015 18:12:58; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'for your convenience we have packaged the defective transistors separately' ? (famous)
asciilifeform: if you ~know~ the class of weak keys, you can define them not-keys and have no weak keys !
asciilifeform: like we do for rsa
mircea_popescu: but currently, a box wherein you input code on one end, and it outputs this peculiar graph at arbitrary zoom level is the most valuable computer i can think of.
mircea_popescu: yes, it may take a while to zoom you in. ok!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu loves his ulam spirals, l0l
mircea_popescu: hey, some of us are visual thinkers.
asciilifeform: in all seriousness, i mathematicize mentally more or less wholly geometrically.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70305 @ 0.00056331 = 39.6035 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: This sort of thing is a recurring theme in cryptography:1. Someone proposes a ... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1TbgFOg )
asciilifeform: '1. Someone proposes a scheme based on Hard Problem X. X looks strong, but the resulting scheme either is too slow or has gigantic keys. 2. Someone else comes along and proposes a related scheme based on Hard Problem Y which, having more structure, allows for either smaller keys or faster computation. 3. Later turns out this extra structure also helps the attacker.'
mircea_popescu: and yet we deeply wonder why would anyone fix a large key and block requirement!
mircea_popescu: stupidity of this caliber can't be naturally produced, has to be learned.
mircea_popescu: but herein we find the elixir of my tolerance of orcs that perhaps bedazzles you alf. this is it : they may be stupid, but at least they're not TRAINEDLY dumb.
asciilifeform: neither is the dirt under my feet.
asciilifeform: let's talk to it, too ?
asciilifeform: and i fully understand why mircea_popescu is fond of orcs.
asciilifeform: prolly same reason why i and many folks like tame animals more than most people.
asciilifeform: or even wild, man-eating animals
asciilifeform: also i will note that orcs are, where typically found, trained-dumb in a number of easily identifiable ways.
asciilifeform: (e.g., allah-snackbar)
mircea_popescu: eh, if only.
mircea_popescu recalls how friendly arabs were once it was established he has whiskey and doesn't mind sharing.
asciilifeform: everybody's quite friendly 'in group of less than three'
asciilifeform: even chechen.
mircea_popescu: so i hear yeah
mircea_popescu: but this ran up to the dozen.
asciilifeform: must've been mega-whiskey
mircea_popescu: mubarak days. better times.
asciilifeform: mu fell off, now we only have barak.
mircea_popescu: but in other news, i shall brb, for duty calls. ( http://49.media.tumblr.com/41d2478fe09e54b02e6239e54c59bb07/tumblr_nxpjm8l98j1qlne6uo1_500.gif duty is the one wearing white)
assbot: cr.yp.to: 2014.02.13: A subfield-logarithm attack against ideal lattices ... ( http://bit.ly/1TbifQj )
assbot: fail0verflow :: plaidCTF 2014 - graphs (crypto200) ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q63Jmg )
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: today from the mines. I'm setting up puppet which uses openssl
asciilifeform: ^ lulzy problem
thestringpuller: the thing ships with it's own libcrypto library
asciilifeform: and apparently the man died yesterday, and his site is gone.
thestringpuller: but apparently it doesn't know how to find the right .so to link
thestringpuller: so I get this error " EC_GROUP_new_curve_GF2m symbol not found at runtime link blah blah"
thestringpuller: so I run readelf on all the libcrypto***.so's
thestringpuller: the one that shipped with the product that uses it doesn't even have the symbol in it?!?!?
thestringpuller: like wtf are these people doing when the put together package management
thestringpuller: "we're gonna ship you a broken library. have fun!"
asciilifeform: wai wut
asciilifeform: why did this even ship with a binary ?
thestringpuller: exactly my question!!!1
thestringpuller: puppet really shit the bed on their open source project
thestringpuller: "Don't wanna deal with this bullshit? Buy puppet enterprise today!"
asciilifeform: i have nfi what is 'puppet.'
thestringpuller: a configuration management tool for devops
thestringpuller: removes itops out of the equation in lieu of developers slowly losing sanity to ruby
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu mega-l0ltr0n from ages gone by, http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/NEWS3/MEMO.HTM#36292906.1151332@news.visi.com
assbot: The Value of Cryptanalysis ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tbjcb6 )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: wait, bernstein died ?!
asciilifeform: this other bloke
asciilifeform: fail0verflow
asciilifeform: though it won't surprise me if bernstein dies of mystery 'accident'
assbot: The Value of Cryptanalysis ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q64T17 )
asciilifeform: 'What I don't
asciilifeform: like is the spying on Americans for political reasons that will
asciilifeform: someday make what the Soviet Union had look like a dream of a long
asciilifeform: lost freedom.'
asciilifeform: massive lulzmine.
assbot: The Value of Cryptanalysis ... ( http://bit.ly/1TbjUFg )
jurov: mod6: ben_vulpes got an email "bitcoin-foundation.info expires in 60 days"
jurov: should i renew it?
ben_vulpes: nah man dns a fuck
ben_vulpes: stop paying lizard hitler for entries in his global lookup table
jurov: lolk
mircea_popescu: " everything looks like a boolean satisfiability problem. This problem, also called SAT, is NP-complete, which means that every instance of any problem in NP can be efficiently reduced to a SAT instance. And, importantly, there are SAT solvers out there which are very efficient for many problems encountered in practice."
mircea_popescu: uh. i had no idea sat is solved now ?
mircea_popescu: oh he just gets lucky. ok.
mircea_popescu: hanbot 464 * 8824 * 1.54 * 1.25 = 7881596.8
mircea_popescu: 597 * 262 * 1.35 = 211158.9. 7670437.9 net
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-18 W T Shaw: "In Bruce's work, there are sinful omissions and comissions, but the subject is so large that this would always be a surity in some form. To judge his character, we will see if he mentions in the future any things he has previously ignored and have been pointed out directly to him." << no. as confirmed throughout and including 18 years later.
mircea_popescu: "1998-10-18 dscott@networkusa.net: "Part of the NSA job is to keep the world in the dark about real ctypto. Think about it. What better way to do it than by creating crypto preists for people to whorship."" and apparently this was well understood 18 years ago, also.
mircea_popescu: "1998-10-26 Terry Ritter: "We *never* know that a cipher is strong. Ever." "Now, we might 'consider' a cipher strong when all *our* guys have looked at it and found no break. But, quite frankly, the *other* guys have more training, more experience, more resources, more time, and they may even be smarter than our guys." "I claim it is more important to have many different ciphers than to have a few which are 'considered
mircea_popescu: strong.' Why? Because we *can't* know how strong our ciphers *really* are to the other guy. But we *can* -- guaranteed -- make The Opponent pay dearly to keep up.""
mircea_popescu: terry ritter actually understands quite al ot.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile notice that EVERYONE is on aes to the degree people are treating it like windows.
mircea_popescu: ditto ecc.
mircea_popescu: fuck this stupid shit already omfg.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84450 @ 0.00056296 = 47.542 BTC [+] {4}
mod6: <+jurov> mod6: ben_vulpes got an email "bitcoin-foundation.info expires in 60 days" << yeah, we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' until like 2020 iirc. we're good.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whole thing is a riot, worth reading on rainy day.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64267 @ 0.00056222 = 36.1322 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00056698 = 3.9972 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1401405 << solved in the same way travelling salesman is 'solved'
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 23:53:09; mircea_popescu: uh. i had no idea sat is solved now ?
asciilifeform: by brute force, when very very small.
asciilifeform: and by cheating in your wolf form, when larger (e.g., simulated annealing, eldritch magic such as evolutionary compute, genetic algo, etc)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11173 @ 0.00056222 = 6.2817 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108635 @ 0.00056073 = 60.9149 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: !up pete_d_out
pete_d_out: cheers alf!
asciilifeform: hola pete_d_out
pete_d_out: hola!
mircea_popescu: lol i see you like the wolf form idea!
asciilifeform: i'ma quite definitely be spending moar time in wolf form.
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399063 << also (in the last few weeks) first time the market cap of qntra has breached 100 btc. to both of which, bravo bravo bravo
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 17:35:13; BingoBoingo: In other news, Qntra just passed 1000 posts. http://qntra.net/2016/02/dprk-launches-satellite-into-space/ was number 1000
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398875 << and further felicitations are due to ben v !
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:15:33; ben_vulpes: happy second birthday, cascadianhacker
pete_d_out: contravex turns two years old on february 22nd :)
assbot: Den of corruption: FBI arrests all but one local official in Texas town — RT USA ... ( http://bit.ly/1RnHopq )
pete_d_out: start with the small towns, then the mid-size towns, then the bigger towns ?
mircea_popescu: howly shit, a 7500 town worth 2mn, and the bribes going to mayor ~ part of a used car ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote to blaze.
asciilifeform: will admit that i'll be a little surprised if he answers.
asciilifeform: now who wants to try bernstein!
mircea_popescu: "1998-10-29 dscott@networkusa.net: "It is obvious that mixinf three different types of ciphers would be better than Triple DES...." << well, it's CERTAINLY obvious that mixing TWO types is better than double-des
asciilifeform: l0l! double des!
mircea_popescu: and there DOES exist such a technique as mathematical induction
mircea_popescu: in case any noobs be wondering why it even is triple-DES : doubleDES(plaintext)=plaintext.
asciilifeform: well, if same key
asciilifeform: which is the case for virtually all symmetric ciphers
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's point re: orcs is well-illustrated in the mega-compendium. observe how the crackpots who can barely string coherent words together, actually sit closer to the dirty truth than the 'educated' folk
mircea_popescu: quite so.
mircea_popescu: apparently all the stuff i proposed as common sense was in point of fact common sense plainly said on public list 20 years ago.
asciilifeform: and earlier.
mircea_popescu: yet somehow the decades passed for no benefit and idiots still pretend like it's never happened. outrageous.
asciilifeform: 'never happened' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: anyway. aes and des should be excommunicated out of everything asap, there's no two ways about it.
asciilifeform: it helped a little that google 'lost' the dejanews archive
asciilifeform: (at least large portions thereof)
mircea_popescu: also i should like to propose a lemma : that chaining should always proceed TOWARDS SMALLER BLOCKS
mircea_popescu: and never the other way around.
asciilifeform: explain?
asciilifeform: (and there is still des somewhere?!! where?)
mircea_popescu: if you have ciphers A B C with block lengths lA lB lC, then the chaining should be applied in such order that l1 > l2 > l3.
asciilifeform: this 'feels right in my gut' but how to justify this?
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-30 Douglas A. Gwyn: "...I can exhibit the design for a block cipher that is demonstrably secure according to the rules of the game, although it wouldn't be *practical*." << you should write to him, too.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't. it is intuition.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now that i think about it, it is elementary
asciilifeform: a break in the larger-blocked cipher is likely to rely on known structure
asciilifeform: !up pete_d_out
shinohai: !up pete_d_out
pete_d_out: cheers :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: deny the enemy the known structure, when possible.
asciilifeform: by using the smaller-unit meatgrinders.
mircea_popescu: i suspect it goes deeper than that. something something entropy/and/bandwidth
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally ... what about the set of ultra np ?
mircea_popescu: bobs@rsa.com mentions it.
mircea_popescu: man fucking schneier is intolerable. i can pick out his lines even without looking at attribution. his entire output comes out of a tiny fucking word grinder.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he says right there, garey & johnson
shinohai L'chaim pete_d_out ! [~]D
asciilifeform: !s garey johnson
assbot: 1 results for 'garey johnson' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=garey+johnson
assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 02:49:24; asciilifeform: i actually hit garey & johnson's mega-encyclopaedia 'intractability' and dug
pete_d_out: shinohai even a few weeks early, i'll take it. cheers ;)
pete_d_out: actually working a "news" piece that i'd give to qntra but i... don't have my keys. so to contravex it goes.
assbot: Complexity Zoo ... ( http://bit.ly/1RnKMkd )
asciilifeform: ^ megaclassic
mircea_popescu: expspace for instance. everyone's fixated on exponential run time
mircea_popescu: expspace doesn't parallelize as well.
mircea_popescu: take for instance the berman real numbers thing
mircea_popescu: iirc all exp- are proven not in P. which is better than what is known for np.
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400919 << heh. ok so now i see that this 'news' was already in the logs. but does 'motherboard' actually publish the contact lists ? nah. do i ? you bet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also schneier used to be mostly sane
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform come to think of it : take a matrix, set it to go pieces, calculate the value of the position.
asciilifeform: till about 2000
mircea_popescu: (note that "beating a human" is not equivalent to solving this. if it were...)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is actually a bitch, but by no means np-hard
asciilifeform: somewhere below O(N^3) iirc.
mircea_popescu: it's not NP, it's EXPTIME
asciilifeform: supposing 'value' means 'what it means to go player', as in score if the game were declared to end
asciilifeform: rather than the minimax value !
asciilifeform: which is, now that i think about it, what mircea_popescu prolly meant
asciilifeform: you did, didntcha.
asciilifeform: forget go, nobody ever full-depth minimax even for, e.g., checkers.
mircea_popescu: and take Stearns-Hartmanis, you know for a fact that all EXPs are actually NOT in P
asciilifeform: just not done on this planet.
mircea_popescu: something you don't know about NP itself.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform go is convenient tho because so close to a matrix.
mircea_popescu: it is, in point of fact, a TERNARY NUMERIC SYSTEM MATRIX
mircea_popescu: or to get back to exponential space problems : "decide first order logic propositions with real numbers, adition and comparison" is a very hard problem.
mircea_popescu: by which i mean, known to be harder than p. this is proven.
mircea_popescu: and know to be harder than p is a more valuable proof for our interest than known to be in np.
asciilifeform: hey i don't even own an instrument that deals in the reals !11111
asciilifeform: (and nobody else does either)
mircea_popescu: again and again we come to the "will need nre hardware" thing
mircea_popescu: !up PaulCapestany
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you can design hardware that deals in ~reals~ i will take off my hat.
mircea_popescu: you got one in your fucking car.
asciilifeform: contrary to popular notion, analogue comp does ~not~
mircea_popescu: it's not programmable quite to your taste, but it does deal in reals.
asciilifeform: made of what, pfff, quantized matter.
asciilifeform: piss-poor reals.
mircea_popescu: note that position is not quantized.
asciilifeform: planck length!111
mircea_popescu: just unknowable.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, we digress.
asciilifeform: anyway contrary to the other popular notion, this is not why we don't have analogue pc
asciilifeform: (really because noise floor)
mircea_popescu: aha. it's exactly the same thing. "unknowable"
asciilifeform: noise in analogue machine is multiplicative.
asciilifeform: which is kiss of death.
asciilifeform: and actually how my rng worx.
mircea_popescu: but getting back to it, the point i want made is that EXP-* inclusion beats NP inclusion.
asciilifeform: yes, but to what planet should i go to, to get one ?
mircea_popescu: what don't you like about the go above ?
asciilifeform: just like mircea_popescu, to help folks working on a historic and unsolved mathematical problem by replacing with unfathomly harder one, l0l
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that it isn't a cryptoscheme ?
asciilifeform: (please wake me up if you can convert it into one)
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Pro-palestinian hackers leak FBI and DHS database. Here it is. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/09/pro-palestinian-hackers-leak-fbi-and-dhs-database-here-it-is/
pete_d_out: speaking of 'sensitive material', what ever came of that little dispute with your hosting co. over the sipa hit, mircea_popescu ?
shinohai: "Nigerian prince schemes" <<< lol pete_d_out
asciilifeform: pete_d_out: you do know that the lowliest monkey in each usg ministry has access to the microshit 'outlook' phonebook seen in the link, aha ?
asciilifeform: even contractors
asciilifeform: (all the way down to visiting chinese grad students)
pete_d_out: but you didn't and neither did i
pete_d_out: 'more just' now
shinohai: !up pete_d_out
pete_d_out: or to quote dr. zhivago, 'it's more just this way'
pete_d_out: cheers shinohai :)
pete_d_out: asciilifeform and chinese grad student mighta had a few hundred contacts even, but tens of thousands ??
pete_d_out: what kind of silos are these ?
asciilifeform: all of them
asciilifeform: this is a mega-unsurprise.
pete_d_out: weird.
asciilifeform: iirc the list of folks who work for fbi and dhs is not even classified 'sensitive' (usg legal term, the thing below 'secret')
asciilifeform: wake me up when nsa list, sorted by directorate, leaks.
asciilifeform: (phun phakt: even they are permitted to openly admit to working for nsa)
asciilifeform: i once turned up at a party full of'em
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35417 @ 0.00056468 = 19.9993 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48898 @ 0.00056506 = 27.6303 BTC [+]
pete_d_out: asciilifeform was schutzstaffel any different ?
asciilifeform: idk, never went to ~their~ party
pete_d_out: just another example of you being born too late !
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400204 << i lollered at 'attended butterbeast community college'
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 09:19:11; BingoBoingo: https://sli.mg/2Y1UQe
mod6: haha wat
TomServo: Is there a better way to do this: http://dpaste.com/0V93852 ?
assbot: dpaste: 0V93852 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tbztgq )
mod6 has rather enjoyed the crypto discussion in the last number of days.
mod6 looks
TomServo: Like trimming the last entry, or checking for consecutive hours?
mod6: whacha tryin to do?
TomServo: Just looking at avg blocks per hour on a syncing node
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400224 <--> "My body is not something that can be sold. I can sell my time, attention, etc but my body always belongs to me. And I think shame is more your area than mine, otherwise why would you respond to such a non-threatening post with such violence?"
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:39:22; BingoBoingo: Brave camho ventures into the bitcointalk cesspool https://archive.is/64HCm
mod6: ah
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400271 << /me always wondered what alf used for 'smartphone'
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:16:19; asciilifeform: nah thats what ipnohe is for
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:20:50; ben_vulpes: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/cam-newton-never-had-a-chance/ << great charts
asciilifeform: pete_d_out: for what did you think.
asciilifeform: also for 'радио звезда' when commuting, what else.
pete_d_out: i toyed with the idea of dumbphone mebbe
asciilifeform: didja also toy with idea of chewing rusty nails ?
pete_d_out: i did !
phf uses dumbphone
pete_d_out: asciilifeform you're a bit of a masochist of nothing else.
pete_d_out: phf same here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10798 @ 0.00056505 = 6.1014 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: fwiw, the 'dumb'/'smart' distinction is a sham
asciilifeform: or rather, from user's pov, it exists;
asciilifeform: while it makes not a lick of difference to usg deathsquad
asciilifeform: worth remembering that the ~original~ (in as far as publicly known) case of pwned phone with always-on mic was a 'dumb'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116450 @ 0.00056725 = 66.0563 BTC [+] {2}
phf: well, that's not a reason i use mine. i spend so much time on technology, i require explicit and often prolonged periods of disconnect to stay healthy
pete_d_out: and, hell, ergonomics
asciilifeform: l0l, wut?!
asciilifeform: pete_d_out actually talks ~into~ the thing ?
pete_d_out: huh ?
pete_d_out: nonono
asciilifeform: headset exists
pete_d_out: but using as 'internet device'
asciilifeform: !up pete_d_out
pete_d_out: standing there or sitting there, hunched over with the stupid i-thing 12" in front of your face because it's 'convenient' instead of walking over to desktop or laptop or god forbid waiting until you get home. ~that's~ the killer.
asciilifeform: pete_d_out clearly does not spend much time stuck in cars
asciilifeform: or trains
kakobrekla: pete_d_out how about some prehistoric nokia
kakobrekla: also works as hammer
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: pretty sure these won't even work, where i live, today
kakobrekla likes phones that work as hammers
nubbins`: as a lord of bitcoin, tmsr~, cognizant of the responsibilities that my words thusly carry, i hereby solemnly rebuke any attempt to strip me of my lordship.
asciilifeform: american telcos phased out analogue band
shinohai: "Damn, we're 1 brick short of finishing this house" "I have a Nokia!"
nubbins`: speak now if you believe a lord that has contributed TRB patches, who owns the second-largest s.mg stock warrant, who trades in the only physical collectibles that are priced solely in BTC, who pays the bill for eulora.org, who is the republic's de facto minister of letters awaiting with bated quill the whittling-down of a codebase fit to publish, should be stripped of his title; speak your treason now, that all may witness it.
kakobrekla: im sure something like nokia 3210 still works here just fine
asciilifeform: fwiw i agree with nubbins`
nubbins`: lords care not whether their presence "confuses the noobs"; such reasoning is unfit for discourse
pete_d_out: asciilifeform i walk or cycle 4/7 days per week. 'saddam' sits in heated parkade. blessedly for both and neither of our constitutions could bear more roadtime.
phf: i thought cars are typically books-on-tape territory
pete_d_out: kakobrekla razr isn't a great hammer, admittedly
asciilifeform: phf: i actually ran out (!) of book tape warez of tolerable quality
asciilifeform: from many years of this.
phf: pimsleur? :)
kakobrekla: pete_d_out yeah that phone is garbage
phf: could be speaking french and iranian by now
asciilifeform: phf: nah, that sort of thing needs attention span not available in car
pete_d_out isn't caught up on logs, isn't sure what nubbins` is referring to.
pete_d_out: kakobrekla i quite like it.
assbot: The Lordship list, third year. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2mc7w )
nubbins`: don't worry pete, just keep linking trilema on your blog
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: funnily, my brother uses 'razor' for decade+ now, it looks entirely pristine
phf: that's the phone that i use http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007F9XJDY i guess it's discontinued, since the only available option is same for $250 :o
assbot: Amazon.com: Samsung GT-E1182L E1182 DUOS Unlocked Quad-Band Dual SIM GSM Phone with Dual SIM Standby Support, FM Radio and Organizer - US Warranty - Silver: Cell Phones & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2mj36 )
pete_d_out: nubbins` ok ?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yes, it!
phf: biggest issue with razr, screen guaranteed to crack if you sit down with it in back pocket
asciilifeform: so never put it in back pocket.
asciilifeform: i've never in my whole life used a back pocket.
nubbins`: my back pockets are empty
nubbins`: why sit on a thing?
asciilifeform: anything therein will either be destroyed or worm its way up your arse
kakobrekla: i havent heard nothing but 'it stopped working' from the owners if memory serves
nubbins`: even a wallet -- your cards will all crack in half
phf: i like to freeclimb abandoned buildings when i'm drunk, i have very specific requirements for my cellphones. i've destroyed 4 iphones so far, unfixable mechanical damage
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: perhaps these were the dropping, drowning, back-pocketing kind of folk
asciilifeform: against whom nothing, not even cast iron crowbar, is safe
kakobrekla: i dont know but if i cant hammer nails with it its not a phone for me
kakobrekla: i mean wtf now i have to take care of it!?
kakobrekla: fuck that.
phf: ^^
asciilifeform: 'leave the microscope at home??' 'no!!!111'
kakobrekla: but its not a precision device.
kakobrekla: its like youd need to 'take care' of a tank.
kakobrekla: puhlease.
kakobrekla: first day i got my last phone it fell about 5 meters to concrete floor
kakobrekla: put the battery back in still works to this very day
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400324 << pretty much this. /me sold aapl in 2013, mostly uses 06-08 hardware now. no steve, no apple.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:52:37; mircea_popescu: anyway, the winds have pointedly turned against apple. the time when they did that "we'll brick your device if you used other parts in it" thing i'd arbitrarily pick as the jumping the shark moment. but in any case : apple is for the next decade a company to sell, not to hold and CERTAINLY not to buy.
kakobrekla: if it was an 'iphone' it be broken to 100 pieces
asciilifeform: btw what was mircea_popescu speaking of there
asciilifeform: what did apple brick 'if you used other parts in it'
nubbins`: nothing
kakobrekla: tank should be able to take a beating. so should phones.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: aha! afaik
kakobrekla: there is no good reason not to.
nubbins`: you can use 100% "other parts" if you like.
assbot: Apple says iPhone 'Error 53' is to protect customers' security | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2nj7o )
kakobrekla: relatedly kindle wont boot with unofficial battery afaik
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: this is SOP on most new laptops
asciilifeform: ditto for power bricks, for perhaps a decade now
asciilifeform: (won't brick, but machine won't charge)
asciilifeform: this is called 'revenue leakage prevention' believe or not.
kakobrekla: my tp charges just fine as long as the voltage is right
kakobrekla: recent
kakobrekla: must be an apple thing.
kakobrekla: what you are describing
asciilifeform: anyway chinese don't do it yet.
assbot: US intelligence chief: we might use the internet of things to spy on you | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2nIGX )
asciilifeform: '“In the future, intelligence services might use the [internet of things] for identification, surveillance, monitoring, location tracking, and targeting for recruitment, or to gain access to networks or user credentials,” Clapper said.'
pete_d_out: recruitment !!!1
asciilifeform: pete_d_out: aka blackmail
pete_d_out: i'm sure that'll work a solid 2/3 times.
pete_d_out: unfortunately, 1/3 'recruits' looking for every possible way to bring down their 'employer' is a lot of angry worker bees stinging anywhere and everywhere
asciilifeform: most 'angry' bees don't know anything interesting.
asciilifeform: or we would be sitting here and discussing how aes leaks key bits.
asciilifeform: and how magic packet enables intel remote admin via nic.
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400369 << no one got the 'pete(r)ed out' angle eh. hm. maybe bb's right, my jokes do need work :(
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:09:06; ben_vulpes: doesn't that get you on some kind of vile criminal list in canada?
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:10:08; mircea_popescu: i never expected him to not show up under his PROFESSIONAL names...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78650 @ 0.00056769 = 44.6488 BTC [+]
shinohai: !up pete_d_out
shinohai: And with that I am off to the loving arms of my Mistress for the night. Ciao!
pete_d_out: gnite !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00056769 = 9.0263 BTC [+]
mod6: mircea_popescu: thebitcoin.foundation/src redirect has been put into place.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76200 @ 0.00056778 = 43.2648 BTC [+] {2}
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400809 << how about that conpherence you were at recently ? shnoopdog or what was it. no gurl programmers there ?
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 16:34:59; asciilifeform: where? antarctica ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27352 @ 0.00056571 = 15.4733 BTC [-]
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400869 << i thought 'spruce goose' was funny in junior high or thereabouts. not that this reference was any more readily grasped than 'cscl'..
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 16:48:44; ben_vulpes: i am now renaming my cock to CSCL Indian Ocean
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 03:18:13; pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400809 << how about that conpherence you were at recently ? shnoopdog or what was it. no gurl programmers there ?
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 18:52:19; ascii_shmoocon: mircea_popescu: 2 'trans' for every biochik
assbot: [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta 2 - Call For Testers! ... ( http://bit.ly/1oqqg7a )
asciilifeform: and i have nfi what they did for a living
mod6: barring any sort of major problems, as long as this one tests well, will bundle it up in a week or so. have at it!
mod6: thanks in advance.
asciilifeform: mod6: neato!
asciilifeform: !up pete_d_out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32323 @ 0.00056427 = 18.2389 BTC [-] {2}
pete_d_out: asciilifeform y'know, you could've, like, asked the 'transies'
asciilifeform: ...why??
pete_d_out: "excuse me, miss, er, sir, er... anyways, so what do you do for work ?"
asciilifeform: again wtf why
pete_d_out: asciilifeform because people talk to each other !!!1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94878 @ 0.00057111 = 54.1858 BTC [+] {4}
pete_d_out: to find out things (tm) (r)
pete_d_out: eg. whether your theory of "no gurl programmers except chetty" has any basis in reality
asciilifeform: i have strictly rationed Giving A Fuck Pointz
pete_d_out: and not so strictly rationed Theories About Reality Pointz, apparently
asciilifeform: pete_d_out: it was not a theory ! merely observation
asciilifeform: about concretes
asciilifeform: plenty of things that i have not seen with own eyes, live happily somewhere.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno man, i'm just thinking.
mircea_popescu: pete_d_out nothing that i put in public.
pete_d_out: asciilifeform mno. "where are they ? antartica ?" is a theory. if a tongue-in-cheek one
pete_d_out: mircea_popescu aha
pete_d_out: mod6 nice work on v99995 ! quite a few changes in there. my v99996 test has had a few bumps in the road (mostly hosting issues afaict) but is still syncing. i'll let you know if there are any snags in that, but holleee you guys are pumping out these trb releases !!
asciilifeform: iirc no release2 yet?
pete_d_out: right you are. i misspoke then, should be 'trb iterations'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: pete_d_out: for what did you think. << facebook games !!!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401608 << i never had anything else. da fuck i want anything else for.
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:16:23; asciilifeform: didja also toy with idea of chewing rusty nails ?
asciilifeform: angry turdz!11
asciilifeform: why does mircea_popescu even need a phone.
mircea_popescu: well, need.
asciilifeform: being that he is never in any place but where he wanted to be
asciilifeform: for some reason i have difficulty picturing him with a phone.
asciilifeform: even an analogue one
mircea_popescu: i have a samsung thingee
asciilifeform: i believe it
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:24:07; nubbins`: as a lord of bitcoin, tmsr~, cognizant of the responsibilities that my words thusly carry, i hereby solemnly rebuke any attempt to strip me of my lordship.
mod6: pete_d_out: salud!
mircea_popescu: i guess if the man wants it... that oughta count for something huh.
mircea_popescu: lol hardcore nubbins`
nubbins`: just call me the shadow lord
mircea_popescu: fine fine. sold me.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401645 <<< ican't fucking stand people talking at me at thge speed THEY think
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:25:41; phf: i thought cars are typically books-on-tape territory
mircea_popescu: !up guest7187
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:29:56; asciilifeform: i've never in my whole life used a back pocket.
mircea_popescu: in all the people who can't understand why they keep getting women pregnant
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:30:22; asciilifeform: anything therein will either be destroyed or worm its way up your arse
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401686 << you have NO FUCKING IDEA how much care you have to take of a tank
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:33:30; kakobrekla: its like youd need to 'take care' of a tank.
mircea_popescu: 6 horses better deal.
mircea_popescu: !up pete_d_out
pete_d_out: cheers !
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:35:48; asciilifeform: what did apple brick 'if you used other parts in it'
mircea_popescu: or ipad or something. i dunno, one of their shits.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119797 @ 0.00056733 = 67.9644 BTC [-] {3}
pete_d_out: phf found it, tis in the logs
pete_d_out: more recent than i woulda thunk
pete_d_out: but yes, it's definitely a thing
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 03:09:53; mod6: mircea_popescu: thebitcoin.foundation/src redirect has been put into place.
asciilifeform: btw whatever one thinks of crapple, the bind they're in re: greymarket parts is very real.
asciilifeform: when morons go to chop shop and have grey chinese sensor installed, and it craps out or works 1 time in 8, they will blame - apple.
asciilifeform: approx. same deal with the magic power cord
asciilifeform: i saw a chinese one melt, with my own eyes
asciilifeform: smelled, too
asciilifeform: (and yes, i am aware that the 'official' items are also made in cn. but they are NOT chinese in the usual sense, there are taskmasters ruthlessly driving the slaves and testing conformance to spec)
asciilifeform: ^ or at least ~were~
pete_d_out: on the topic of the lordship list, can someone please tell me what 'fief' mats is fighting for ? pogo distribution ? pgp server thing he started then quit ? other things ? i'm genuinely curious. he doesn't contribute ~that~ much to the debates here that i can see, though he's certainly not invisible, but most of what i glean from his commentary is along the lines of "windows isn't so bad u guise", which, i guess, is what it is. anyways,
pete_d_out: i'd like to sumbit that mats be removed from the lordship list on the upcoming go-around. tis but a humble proposal to my fellow lords.
mircea_popescu: right. WERE. back in the day when nobody had to be told to use original parts.
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: the way dead corps go, fences go up after the horses leave.
asciilifeform: pete_d_out: iirc he was doing the judges thing
pete_d_out: he did do some solid homework there, i concede.
hanbot: pete_d_out you sumbitting proposals from an alt?
asciilifeform: pete_d_out: i mainly associate him with american army and related matters
pete_d_out: hahahah omg party foul
asciilifeform: (boot camp, boots, grunting, shitting oneself, sapping, other arts)
pete_d_out: hanbot you can tell i don't do this often eh
pete_d_out: in light of the obvious circumstances, i hereby retract my non-existent proposal. signed, nobody.
pete_d_out: asciilifeform and pants pooping iirc
pete_d_out: lol nm..
asciilifeform: i included!
pete_d_out: i'm more tired that i realised. i'm sending this alt to bed as the 4am crying-feeding is coming all too soon. ciao amigos !
asciilifeform: goodnight pete_d_out.
hanbot: happy sleep
mats: whoa there
mats: that's not how that story went
asciilifeform: mats: i well recall that it was a proper, orderly, military pant-shitting, don't worry
mats: good.
nubbins`: what's pete doing on the list anyway
asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc he wanted to be propaganda minister or the like
nubbins`: lel.
nubbins`: yoosful
asciilifeform: and possibly he handled one of mircea_popescu's synthetic assetrons, but i genuinely don't recall, this is far from my home planet
mircea_popescu: yeah how is that pr thing coming ?
nubbins`: afaik pete only wrote a blog where he regurgitated mp themes
nubbins`: and... hangs out here
asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc he does it deliberately, it was supposed to be a summary thing
asciilifeform: for heathens to read
nubbins`: oh, really?
asciilifeform: ask'im when he wakes up.
asciilifeform: because i have nfi
nubbins`: yipes
asciilifeform: i confess, i do not usually read his thing
nubbins`: that's sorta worse
nubbins`: yeah, bitcoin pete is not on my reading list
nubbins`: s.nsa january statement is on my reading list, but...
assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 17:51:57; mircea_popescu: so for everyone watching : s.nsa will be doing double month report next month ; s.mpoe will be filing later today.
nubbins`: ah, ty
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.00056584 = 20.9927 BTC [-]
nubbins`: is this implying an absence of operational activity?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: nope
mats: fwiw, most of my free time is consumed by work towards being useful for the most recent s.nsa proposal re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348500
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 18:05:28; asciilifeform: but it is also impossible ~with~ a wot, unless you are mircea_popescu and are in commerce with another mircea_popescu .
mats: and in fact this has been my primary interest in being in this wot in the first place. since the beginning.
asciilifeform: mats: neato. how's that coming along?
mats: slaving over an idapython plugin for windbg because existing ones are shit
mircea_popescu: mats well that's great to hear, actually.
mats: overall progress is pretty slow. i would benefit from a mentor, but none of the greybeards i know, have time for me
asciilifeform: mats: idapython specifically?? in windbg? Why?
asciilifeform: lulzily, i actually liked the built-in debugger in ida.
mats: its what i learned
mats: and the public idapython plugins seemed more feature complete, so i went from there
mats: also, i was encouraged to do that.
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