Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-01-08 | 2016-01-10 → ↓
BingoBoingo: !up massiro
massiro: thank you.
massiro: <mircea_popescu> said "isolated from the network".
massiro: this reminds me of sending tx with a high-S value.
massiro: latest nodes never accept high-S value transactions and never relays it.
massiro: i'm suspecting <mircea_popescu> is using an old client and the old client makes txes with high-S values.
danielpbarron: !s low-s
assbot: 15 results for 'low-s' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=low-s
massiro: low-S is in the signature <R,S>
BingoBoingo: massiro: creates either s, sometimes high, others low
massiro: in the past, the-eth-scam payout with txid ebc5d768... was using high-S, and modified/accepted txid 09e82c06... was with low-S.
massiro: <BingoBoingo> yes.
massiro: S should be less than 0x7FFFFFFF... to be relayed by the network now.
massiro: if S is greater, doing S' = 0xFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFE BAAEDCE6 AF48A03B BFD25E8C D0364141 - S will fix it.
assbot: bips/bip-0062.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1UE4Q0h )
massiro: If we make high-S txes, it never be relayed/mined by latest nodes.
danielpbarron: !s Wuille
assbot: 25 results for 'Wuille' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Wuille
massiro: and somebody will modify high-S to low-S. and the wallet will be corrupted.
massiro: i cannot see the content of e6b8aa9d... but it may have a high-S value.
massiro: in fact ebc5d768... was a "high-S" tx and the-eth-scam payout used ebc5d768 as input.
massiro: low-S-modified 09e82c06 was mined, so ebc5d768 became double spending.
BingoBoingo: !up massiro ty
massiro: So the solution is to use the latest client.
danielpbarron: what is the latest client?
ben_vulpes: solution imho is to make not mining these transactions economically suicidal
massiro: <danielpbarron> Bitcoin Core 0.11.2 .
danielpbarron: massiro, are you not familiar with http://thebitcoin.foundation/ ?
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZPY9X )
massiro: <danielpbarron>, i know it a little... that may create high-S.
massiro: If we don't want to use the latest client, we could do "createrawtransaction" and "signrawtransaction", check whether is has high-S or not by our eyes, and do "sendrawtransaction" to the network.
danielpbarron: heh, we don't.
massiro: <danielpbarron>, hahaha...
danielpbarron: so do you bet on bitbet?
massiro: yes.
massiro: sometimes.
danielpbarron: blissfully unware of the politics of bitcoin until it gets in the way of a payout?
massiro: I have known the politics at some extent...
massiro: and I think I'm conservative side such as a block size.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00048828 = 3.8086 BTC [-] {2}
gabriel_laddel: !up tripleslash
ben_vulpes: good evening gabriel_laddel
assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1OWFxSG )
gabriel_laddel: !up BingoBoingo
ben_vulpes: > nope.js
ben_vulpes: oh ho ho
ben_vulpes: i am very much looking forward to experimenting with this
ben_vulpes: it's possible that lispy power-magnifying tentacles are the best way to wrap hands around big ugly workpiles like linux
gabriel_laddel: idk. sometimes I wish I'd gotten good with a slide rule instead.
gabriel_laddel: I've tried, a few times now to get a handle on linux and...
gabriel_laddel: well, I end up working on other stuff.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: do you have dedicated sales people at SJ?
gabriel_laddel: !up samO__
gabriel_laddel: !up diana_coman
gabriel_laddel: Oh, and ben do you have any good reading material re rockets? I'm in the mood for something new.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 3.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Jeb Bush will be Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee - http://bitbet.us/bet/1209/jeb-bush-will-be-republicans-2016-presidential-nominee/#b20
assbot: X.Org Might Lose Its Domain Name - Phoronix ... ( http://bit.ly/1VSrRO8 )
punkman: asciilifeform: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 20421a3f19 mapTransactions prev not found e6b8aa9ded << I only have half a clue what's going on when I look at the code, but perhaps e6b8aa9ded is not actually chained off 83e2b80e96? I can't find 20421a3f19 on any block explorer, maybe it's another transaction only existing in mp's wallet.
assbot: Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1mKg0Gh )
punkman: and good god, all this implicitness is code is enough to drive a man crazy
punkman: *in code
punkman: where the fuck does "vin" come from for example
punkman: how does something called "prevout" refer to e6b8aa9ded and the bare GetHash() to 20421a3f19?
punkman: and if "prevout" is e6b8aa9ded why the hell does "if (!mapTransactions.count(prevout.hash))" fail??? you just received the thing
trinque: gabriel_laddel │ I've tried, a few times now to get a handle on linux and... << leave gentoo for dead; I couldn't be more pleased with OpenBSD.
punkman: /me would like a bsd machine
punkman: my tv runs on freebsd, but can't do anything there
gabriel_laddel: trinque: and the downsides are..?
gabriel_laddel: drivers, iirc
trinque: have yet to run into any such
gabriel_laddel: so what exactly is it that you're pleased with?
gabriel_laddel: is the notion of dependency graph useful on *BSD
trinque: sure, ports is where portage gets its name after all, isn't it?
trinque: I am pleased with the fact that I ran an installer, and now I have a unix that actually does everything of which it claims to be capable.
trinque: including ZZZ, incidentally
trinque runs
gabriel_laddel: Has anyone played around with Zen, the CL X server, or does anyone have links to OLD X documentation / proggies that would be useful for debugging issues deep(?) in the X server / help me understand wtf the X protocol is? I googled around for X docs and found a mess.
phf: gabriel_laddel: anything that https://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/clx/ doesn't answer?
assbot: CLX Manual ... ( http://bit.ly/1VSHW6x )
assbot: US Hellfire missile wrongly shipped to Cuba - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1SFsICg )
gabriel_laddel: phf: I've browsed through it, but didn't find what I was looking for. Perhaps if I state my problem someone will know what I need. The goal is to 'fold' the whole notion of X client / server directly into CL function calls. I would like details of how *exactly* X talks to the hardware (Cee sources, yeah) and a large, obvious table as to what all the error codes / X requests are.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7629 @ 0.00048828 = 3.7251 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: sciencemadness.org is really cool btw, thanks for the link.
phf: gabriel_laddel: perhaps if you stated your problem! xlib is a handful of operations on top of blit, where zen emulates those same operations using opengl. exact details of x talking to hardware is completely outside of scope of xlib, since the whole point is abstract those away.
gabriel_laddel: Unfortunately I may need to poke around "under the hood". There are two showstopping bugs in CLIM that crash the connection to the X server, and it is unclear why.
gabriel_laddel: That said, I've not really poked around the call stack. Could be missing something obvious.
jurov: ;;calc 0.00021465*1.01
gribble: 0.0002167965
jurov: ;;calc 0.00021465/1.01
gribble: 0.000212524752475
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9287 @ 0.00048828 = 4.5347 BTC [-]
assbot: The Comet Is Coming - SLAMMIN - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OX89LG )
mircea_popescu: !up massiro
thestringpuller: is there a way to coredump bitcoind without having to recompile with GDB symbols? I've recompiled it, but it's giving me "illegal instruction" error then closes out. No crash log.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-01-2016#1363898 << yeah, and this'd be a problem, apparently.
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 05:10:42; massiro: latest nodes never accept high-S value transactions and never relays it.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller bt is your friend
thestringpuller: wait, if a high-S value transaction is written to block does that affect future tx's?
massiro: thestringpuller, once written in a block, it is valid because consensus is unchanged.
massiro: consensus is unchanged but the latest nodes never relay/mine high-S tx.
thestringpuller: okay now I see. yea anything after this was pulled https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6769 there is a low-s threshold
thestringpuller: i wonder if that caused the wallet issue? spend tx, confirmed under different hash, wallet is now borked?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i still need to run gdb to run bt no?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller that was kakobrekla's theory as to what the problem was previously. however currently, there's a transaction that has 100 confirms, and it's being spent, and it still doesn't get through. so no, that couldn't be it.
thestringpuller: the power rangers seem to break more stuff than they fix
mircea_popescu: consensus!!111
mircea_popescu: hey everyone : do you realise NEXT time you all "consensus" idly over some stupidity, it may mean MORE than 600 btc delayed for MORE than a week because of your agreement to "changes" ?
mircea_popescu: fucking stop and think about sometime before you agree with usg's moles about ever novel ways to fuck up the one thing that threatens their continuous existence.
massiro: "there's a transaction that has 100 confirms" << what is the txid? this? : 09e82c06cc5fbe3c0f2c2b6a1f575e8ecbb2a92bb493ca3a318525b1eeabe2bd
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 02:17:52; mircea_popescu: e6b8aa9dedef74a7e8961e0d997aebc35aae3c8e762a715336d84b39507c9773 is chained off 83e2b80e96919cb0b0186ff8ba7225d25535ad722ec5e2343a3a5927ef85d735 and you do see that.
mircea_popescu: that's what we're currently trying to debug. why the e6b8 one, which spends a single input from the 83e2 one, is not making it through.
massiro: can i have e6b8? i can check whether is has high-S.
mircea_popescu: i've been broadcasting it all night to the trb nodes, you can ask any of them, they should still have it in the memory.
thestringpuller: I don't recall this being a problem till Mt.Gox and Coinkite complianed.
assbot: No Such lAbs (S.NSA), December 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PkeLEh )
mircea_popescu: yeah, until karpeles lied about an imaginary cause of stealing people's bitcoin, the other dudes working on wrecking bitcoin didn't have a good excuse. hurr durr.
thestringpuller: cause if tx is malleable and txid changes, you'll see it change in real time
thestringpuller: but addresses will still get their money
thestringpuller: ugh. i can't even.
mircea_popescu: you're not supposed to use "txids" for anything, but whatever. as discussed yest, this goes up all the way.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-01-2016#1363920 << sadly this system is like a tango of six things together, and one of them got way ahead of the others. especially of the block subsidy, which is still way WAY WAY too high.
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 05:46:31; ben_vulpes: solution imho is to make not mining these transactions economically suicidal
mircea_popescu: ironically, this is known of exponentials, they're "too low" in the early middle and too high in the end. but then again, it is known by people who know shit, such as how to design games that people enjoy playing, not by people who don't know jack, such as microsoft-excel based cryptographer-hermits.
massiro: mircea_popescu, sorry, i'm not familiar with trb nodes.
mircea_popescu: massiro follow the link, there's a list there selected for you.
mircea_popescu: !rated massiro
assbot: massiro is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: and maybe even get in the wot.
mircea_popescu: !up massiro
mircea_popescu: so i don't have to keep doing this.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets | You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pkf7eh )
assbot: No Such lAbs (S.NSA), December 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PkeLEh )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-01-2016#1363931 <<< hey, recall the last fork power rangers did ? the fucking miners are blessfully ignorant of bitcoin politics, what do you want from a random guy.
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 05:58:13; danielpbarron: blissfully unware of the politics of bitcoin until it gets in the way of a payout?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-01-2016#1363937 << o wow, gabriel_laddel is actually making progress towards his ideal ?
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 06:50:33; gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: http://imgur.com/x80Y1RD
mircea_popescu: femlisp lessonmap fuck now i wanna see this thing.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-01-2016#1363951 << oh no you don't. fuck you, keep working on THAT thing wtf.
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 07:16:11; gabriel_laddel: Oh, and ben do you have any good reading material re rockets? I'm in the mood for something new.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-01-2016#1363953 << lol what the fuck are they going to do, "solution". is it really so hard to say "they fucked up, it's unfixable", must everything be packaged in this "hopefully the us army takes tikrit with two tootphicks and an empty tube of minty flavoured toothpaste" ?
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 08:32:46; punkman: and good god, all this implicitness is code is enough to drive a man crazy
mircea_popescu: "it can not be specified because we don't want to fix it because we don't want anyone to understand how it works because..."
mircea_popescu: "... then we'd be out of what we hope to be a very good job". welcome to the exact reason why we accepted "intellectual property" in the first place. and now here we sit, both with the problem unresolved and with the massive infrastructure of the not-working fix for it in place. hurr durr, i wonder what's the problem with western civilisation. it must be the womenz fucking niggaz!
punkman: mircea_popescu: i've been broadcasting it all night to the trb nodes, you can ask any of them, they should still have it in the memory. << they seem to be rejecting it, so maybe pastebin the raw transaction
mircea_popescu: mno, they accepted one and rejected the rest (which is unsurprising for trb, seeing how the rest were chained on the one)
massiro: could you issue "getrawtransaction e6b8aa9dedef74a7e8961e0d997aebc35aae3c8e762a715336d84b39507c9773"
mircea_popescu: not trivially.
punkman: mircea_popescu: likely nobody has e6b8aa9ded in their mempool
mircea_popescu: punkman we know for a fact everyone in trb DOES have it in their mempool, actually.
mircea_popescu: this was established last night.
punkman: all I saw was the tx getting rejected in debug.logz
mircea_popescu: you prolly should re-read the discussion.
punkman: maybe another silent netsplit?
mircea_popescu: alf was quoting his node receiving getdatas for it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25550 @ 0.00048534 = 12.4004 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 02:16:12; asciilifeform: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 20421a3f19 mapTransactions prev not found e6b8aa9ded
mircea_popescu: punkman mno. that is an unrelated issue of a 2nd tx. again, it's not surprising, seeing how trb handles chains.
mircea_popescu: (which was, if you recall, deliberate)
punkman: oic, I'll stop derping then
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 02:15:51; asciilifeform: sending getdata: tx e6b8aa9dedef74a7e896
mircea_popescu: since it is questioned about the tx and sends the tx, it necessarily knows about the tx
mircea_popescu: now, there MAY be something broken in there somewhere, but i'm not tooled to chase it.
shinohai: Still having BB payour woes :/
punkman: thought those were 3 continuous lines from the logz
shinohai: *payout
mircea_popescu: possibly they are, i dunno. even so, they discuss two different things.
punkman: it does seem that if e6b8aa9ded was indeed in mempool, the error wouldn't say "not found e6b8aa9ded"
mircea_popescu: it does.
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 392484 | Current Difficulty: 1.0388034081545589E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 393119 | Next Difficulty In: 635 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform is dulap significantly (~100 blocks) behind the chain ?
mircea_popescu: punkman but it's not necessarily surprising seeing the orphanage burner patch.
mircea_popescu: or at least that's what i think.
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 09:38:41; gabriel_laddel: phf: I've browsed through it, but didn't find what I was looking for. Perhaps if I state my problem someone will know what I need. The goal is to 'fold' the whole notion of X client / server directly into CL function calls. I would like details of how *exactly* X talks to the hardware (Cee sources, yeah) and a large, obvious table as to what all the error codes / X requests are.
mircea_popescu: !rated gabriel_laddel
assbot: You rated user gabriel_laddel on 11-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball..
mircea_popescu: !rated gabriel_laddel 2 almost a year later, he got a larger chunk of exercise ball down his gullet than anyone i know of.
assbot: You rated user gabriel_laddel on 11-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball..
mircea_popescu: !rate gabriel_laddel 2 almost a year later, he got a larger chunk of exercise ball down his gullet than anyone i know of.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/19b3c59e78307eaf
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gabriel_laddel.2:285099d09e499df1658b7e4e6856a2674ffc19d177d10fe58f147f4c70924f54
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for gabriel_laddel from 1 to 2 with note: almost a year later, he got a larger chunk of exercise ball down his gullet than anyone i know of.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel no, no dedicated sales people yet. why do you ask?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel "ignition!" is a pretty choice read.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-01-2016#1363995 << that's the sort of poky hipbone i dun like!
mircea_popescu: not going into the details of "if you don't know how to tie a woman, don't try and wing it for the derpy fishwrap that hired you because 'who'd ever know'. people know."
jurov: thestringpuller yes you have to recompile with -g or -ggdb. and not just bitcoin itself but all the libs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00048087 = 4.3278 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: jurov: do I change this in the make file?
thestringpuller: grrrr. there should be a "debug" version of the compilation process script
jurov: yes. and remove strip from stator.sh
mircea_popescu: heh derpy okcupid. it has this tab that goes "98 visitors average per week". meanwhile they only keep track of the ~100 most recent visitors. the oldest is from 5:59 am, today. the most recent from 8:57 am, also today. so in about 3 hours i get 100, but "on average" during a week i get 98. it's been pretty much like this for at least two weeks now, give or take 5k a week average each day, which they've been reporting a
mircea_popescu: s +- 100. i think it can be safely concluded that the number they report is simply a marketing gimmick, not connected to anything.
thestringpuller: so in make file I ad -g?
jurov: yes, to CFLAGS
thestringpuller: p. sure my compy is just too old to run something new that ended up in this thing
mircea_popescu: that';s not really how it goes thestringpuller
jurov: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/makefile.unix#0074 thestringpuller looks like it's already there, so just remove strip from stator.sh
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/makefile.unix ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAEhKb )
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i kno. i'm just speculating madly. i keep getting "Illegal Instruction" so it just feels weird.
mircea_popescu: that's usually a sure sign of a bit of asm being unsuported.
mircea_popescu: the codebase does include some choice asm bits if memory serves.
mircea_popescu: alternatively : have you done the noob mistake of compiling for / on one platform, and trying to run on another ?
mircea_popescu: (this extends all the way to all the libraries involved, obv.)
thestringpuller: i'm compiling on the same machine I'm running it on. did the whole stator+rotor build here
thestringpuller: so i figured it only assemble something. maybe gcc is borked?!?
thestringpuller: (the one i'm using)
mircea_popescu: normally i'd say no, but the stuff we've been seeing... dunno anymore.
thestringpuller: how far does the rabbit hole go?
mircea_popescu: my money is still on "surprise crossplatform".
thestringpuller: well before I recompile the whole damn thing, lemme see what strace brings to the surface
thestringpuller: http://dpaste.com/1KFEQ7B.txt << strace results leading up to the crash
thestringpuller: "killed by SIGILL" which is the result from illegal instruction
shinohai: thestringpuller: what platform you compiling on?
thestringpuller: Linux machine-zero 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Tue May 13 16:34:35 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
shinohai: heh.
shinohai: Wonder why ppl are having debian issues lately, I must have tested this 500 times on various makes of debian
mircea_popescu: tis weird.
shinohai: I believe pete_dushenski 's issue was just trying to compile on a 32bit system tho, once he reimaged it worked fine.
thestringpuller: this is amd 3400+
mircea_popescu: shinohai yeah.
shinohai: weird. I have never seen anything like what you report in strace.
shinohai: mebbe I can spin up a VM with that particular processor and see what it barfs out for me
thestringpuller: worth a try
mircea_popescu: sooo... acthung panzers, asciilifeform ben_vulpes mod6 : it is certain beyond any conceivable doubt the trb nodes are isolated - both the publicly advertised ones and at least one not publicly advertised, because lo! what used to be tx e6b8aa9dedef74a7e8961e0d997aebc35aae3c8e762a715336d84b39507c9773 has not only been successfully broadcast but it got malleated, and is now included in the chain as c29e162c79144ced3e827
mircea_popescu: 9453067e6d34137a4f4cab864dbf801b906e8f6d45f with 13 confirms.
assbot: BTC Transaction c29e162c79144ced3e8279453067e6d34137a4f4cab864dbf801b906e8f6d45f | BlockCypher ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVWOPY )
shinohai: bcinfo shows it "Hih S rejected" blockcypher reports it as double spend attempt
mircea_popescu: that takes care of ~150 of the ~700 btc that bitbet's been delayed in paying. we will be getting through the rest during the remainder of today.
mircea_popescu: shinohai it is a double-spend. all malleated txids are.
shinohai: And so trb is at a crossroads :/
mircea_popescu: i must say this has been a very instructive experience.
shinohai: No one seems to be bitching and crying "scam" and "haxxored" on btctalk anymore so all is well.
mircea_popescu: there's a thing about centralisation in that, i suspect.
mircea_popescu: turns out centralisation helps when it's a case of "well bitbet goes to mp and mp runs a lot of other things and so... nope." people who only run one thing have it a lot worse.
shinohai: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1317139.msg13496128#msg13496128 <<< nevermind he said he hadn't gotten paid but I assured him rest of payments are coming later today.
assbot: BITBET.US - Delay in JAN 2016 payments ... ( http://bit.ly/1mN6HF6 )
mircea_popescu: ironically, it was broadcast from slovenia :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13187 @ 0.00048436 = 6.3873 BTC [+]
asciilifeform wakes up with first full night of sleep in 2wks
asciilifeform: axe-time, sword-time?
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/1Y9D568
assbot: dpaste: 1Y9D568 ... ( http://bit.ly/1mN9cqN )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Xenorcara, the OBSD X server man pages should be a start
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 13:18:42; mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform is dulap significantly (~100 blocks) behind the chain ?
asciilifeform: the others - less.
asciilifeform: actually strike that
asciilifeform: ~zoolag~ is a dozen behind
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform guess who can't encrypt to you ;/
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yeah, until karpeles lied about an imaginary cause of stealing people's bitcoin, the other dudes working on wrecking bitcoin didn't have a good excuse. hurr durr. << Blockstream people nao complain too, because their off chain doo dad apparently won't work if any malleability on their transactions is possibru
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: make sure you have new pubkey plox
asciilifeform: (new in the selfsigs sense ONLY!!)
asciilifeform: get from assbot ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the node that was talking to them was 105-112 blocks behind main chain yesterday.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo try as i might, i can't fucking recall who the fuck is "blockstream"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: wuile, luke-jr, adam back, et al.
BingoBoingo: Lightning network
mircea_popescu: no, i mean in terms of doing things.
mircea_popescu: like, for instance : bitbet pays 100s of bitcoins
asciilifeform: sha512 == 8911da3ce9419d3dfd7aba3b3aab42a24549e712b7b9fae90225db32d53aad88d581f9daa9b5617d1370dfe7fb83ed1e525be3c3d274cf00a86724d9b3f814e2
BingoBoingo: Oh, their the new power rangers
mircea_popescu: what does "blockstream" do ?
BingoBoingo: It talks and proposes soft forks and apparently eats a bunch of USD VC money from god knows where
mircea_popescu: i get a374f57b40cdb645fd1f5eee5e304d6777a02c84d4f449cfefb1f1631c585933daf72c2aecd33383078be87a88701e2634b4542cef3d280ca32eb631432ae661 from that url.
asciilifeform: post it plox!!
asciilifeform: the thing that you get !
mircea_popescu: o nm, my bad.
mircea_popescu: 8911da3ce9419d3dfd7aba3b3aab42a24549e712b7b9fae90225db32d53aad88d581f9daa9b5617d1370dfe7fb83ed1e525be3c3d274cf00a86724d9b3f814e2 confirmed
asciilifeform pictures nsa goon sitting in a submarine on ocean bottom typing on two terminals very very quickly
assbot: dpaste: 35A2REQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBsWs7 )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently if you paste into sha512sum you get a different result than if you curl and pipe
mircea_popescu: prolly control chars.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> It talks and proposes soft forks and apparently eats a bunch of USD VC money from god knows where << yeah. none of this counts for anything. and i have nfi why they'd get any amount of vote in any discussion re bitcoin.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: done.
mircea_popescu: aite, it's in a term so i'll say.
assbot: dpaste: 3Z6EYN3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBtpul )
mircea_popescu: you'd naively think no propagation can possibly take this long.
mircea_popescu: and you;'d be wrong, bitcoin oft does.
assbot: GitHub request to REVERT the removal of CoinBase.com is met with overwhelming support (95%) and yet completely IGNORED. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBv7vM )
mircea_popescu: oh you don't understand how voting works.
assbot: Cryptsy Has Moved Out of Their Building Unannounced, Nowhere to be Found - Bitcoinist.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBwDy2 )
thestringpuller: ;;google muppet circus
gribble: Circus - Muppet Wiki - Wikia: <http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Circus>; Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus - Muppet Wiki - Wikia: <http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Ringling_Bros._and_Barnum_%26_Bailey_Circus>; Kermit the Frog on "Electric Circus" - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VD-3kn7z44>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18339 @ 0.00048112 = 8.8233 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: jp - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1OaT63E )
mircea_popescu: "Imgur is over capacity!
mircea_popescu: Sorry! We're busy running around with our hair on fire because Imgur is over capacity!"
asciilifeform: the upload failed a couplea times too
asciilifeform: so possible
asciilifeform: link seems to load now
punkman: what's that asciilifeform
assbot: Does Mayonnaise Last as a Thermal Compound? - Hardware Secrets ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaqoDS )
BingoBoingo: "Back in 2011, we tested mayonnaise as a thermal interface between the CPU and the base of the cooler. Amazingly, it worked nicely, proving to be, at least in a short term, a better thermal compound than several well-known commercial products. But, at the time, we could not determine how long it would continue to work before a degradation in performance was noted."
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
BingoBoingo: The answer was apparently not only does it not last, it oxidizes the interface surfaces.
punkman: "surprising"
punkman: but I good to know I guess? for that rare occasion when you need to macguyver a heatsink on something
BingoBoingo: Or don't really care how well it works after 3 days, but just need it to work NOW!!!
BingoBoingo: Anyone want an Illinois lottery powerball ticket for tonight's 900 million dollar drawing, for the potential collection lulz?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i was gonna say "oxidizing"
mircea_popescu: and wjhat's the collection lulz ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well the part where getting big lottery payouts from illinois would involve litigation. Even in the games where the jackpot is pooled with other states. Winning ticket would mean potential for you to sue and force state governments to sue each other.
mircea_popescu: hahahaha. wait, i get to sue to establish to whom i pay my winnings in tax ?
mircea_popescu: fuck that.
BingoBoingo: Nah, gotta sue to even establish the winnings are winnings.
mircea_popescu: heh. this quesiton doesn't come up to establish taxes are owed, im sure.
asciilifeform: usa, land of 'win a car - declare bankruptcy'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: vegetable matter as lubrication (much less thermal, wtf, l0l) is atrociously braindamaged
BingoBoingo: Werkz until doesn't
asciilifeform: leaving the heatsink off also works until doesn't
mircea_popescu: i doubt there's anything vegetal in us mayo.
mircea_popescu: the wonder of socialist governments - making the cheapo ersatz something to aspire to.
asciilifeform: aha, land of petro-margarine
asciilifeform: landlord at my last office liked to leave 'christmas package' in every mailbox. it had 'food': items like 'cheese' that was good INDEFINITELY at room temperature, 'meat' where ditto, etc
mircea_popescu: i'd bet that if properly purified of colorants etc, average lab can't distinguish any sauce from wd40
mircea_popescu: and wd40 is not a great thermocouple agent, but also not as bad as air is.
mircea_popescu: nothing is as bad as air, not really.
asciilifeform: toothpaste would work just as well as anything
asciilifeform: all you want is to 1) fill gaps 2) be reasonably inert
mircea_popescu: toothpaste dries.
BingoBoingo: Apparently chocolate is worse than not having interface material
asciilifeform: well yes, was speaking of 'anythings' that tards might use
asciilifeform: and the inevitable question, 'who gave these people a cpu?'
mircea_popescu: well, bush really, but anyway. same diff.
BingoBoingo: Clitler
assbot: Oregon standoff: Idaho group arrives to 'secure perimeter, prevent Waco-style situation' | OregonLive.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1SGct7O )
asciilifeform looks at photos, does not find armour or artillery
mircea_popescu: 1798 comments << gotta love that comment count
mircea_popescu: 1802 by now
BingoBoingo: In other news more hamplanets turning on Beetus Christ https://archive.is/DOpqe
assbot: The WORST body positive role model ever. | Bigbuttbbw considers ... ( http://bit.ly/1UFhGeG )
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/dWm7G << check out a page that never completes loading.
mircea_popescu: tyme to nullroute "livefyre.com"
asciilifeform: 'Crazy like a fox. They are Gubment spooks or assets. Most are collecting military disability and ole Mammon has got a nice half million dollar loan from the SBA. Nobody is dumb enough to challenge Mad Dog Sam. Use your brains for once! Dictatorship is here, with this nice little false flag rebellion to usher it in.'
asciilifeform: (from those 1802 commentz)
mircea_popescu: anyway, check it out alfie, usg lost policing power in oregon.
BingoBoingo: Well Oregon was established as a refuge for white folk.
mircea_popescu: also, sam destefano has been dead for longer than the internet's been a thing.
mircea_popescu: "get off my lawn you damn dirty apes. i think there will be arguments for years about the wisdom of emboldening these white power, white privilege self serving outlaws or letting them disperse on their own to be picked up later for prosecution. i think the worst case scenario would be letting them off with a guarantee of no criminal charges they should face a range of charges from littering to treason."
mircea_popescu: anyone taking bets on whether "queergendered", fat, on govt dole and in ny ?
BingoBoingo: Anyone want to do a piece on the latest Oregon for qntra?
BingoBoingo: Seems to merit "diverse" perspectives
mircea_popescu: would be great if someone who lived there.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i take it they ain't answering emails ?
BingoBoingo: Not yet
BingoBoingo: And if they were I'd still be suspicous
shinohai wonders if they have a GPG key by now ...
mircea_popescu: heh. seems improbable.
BingoBoingo: It would be nice if someone in WoT near there would go over and do a GPG keysigning party
asciilifeform: they, just as isis, would dismiss it as intellectual-claptrap
asciilifeform: would say, real strength is in blood, sweat, guts !
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> they, just as isis, would dismiss it as intellectual-claptrap << Could probably be sold on "keeping Obama out" angle
asciilifeform: to the spartan, thinking is verboten
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> they, just as isis, would dismiss it as intellectual-claptrap <<< you don;t know what the girl says UNTIL YOU ASK HER OUT.
asciilifeform: let's ben_vulpes go ask.
mircea_popescu: iirc i asked and he didn't wanna.
assbot: The danger of homebrew crypto on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SGeJfA )
asciilifeform: 'the unfounded belief that whitey couldn't possibly have figured out your genius, Allah-inspired "idea". The ungrounded belief that all those other kids that stayed in school rather than quit at age 8 learned nothing at all for their trouble. The firm conviction that you can hide behind your finger.'
BingoBoingo: My present dilemma is if I recieve any plaintext from Oregon liberators over the wire, there is an extreme possibility of it actually being a Preet
mircea_popescu: can still print with that caution.
mircea_popescu: so you just about ready to make warzone reporting a full time activity BingoBoingo ?
BingoBoingo: Not yet. You know, this may be an occasion to use the Trilema job board.
mircea_popescu: which still dun exist. besides, not all jobs are entry level.
mircea_popescu: ;;ud BLM
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BLM | Bureau of Land Management ( people with short pants ). Yogi Bearr & Bo-bo's ranger watch ! BLM close public lands so Mr. ranger can keep city people from ...
shinohai: Hey boo boo!
mircea_popescu: "For the Republic, Stewart Rhodes Founder and President of Oath Keepers" <<< lol check out that guy
mircea_popescu: but tbh, BingoBoingo, i'm not so sure his point is without merit.
mircea_popescu: why not heal the representativity issue ?
BingoBoingo: I though it existed as a category on trilema? But no, no entry level position here.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> why not heal the representativity issue ? << needs ben_vulpes for that
mircea_popescu: nono i mean, as far as the bundys, hammonds etc are concerned
mircea_popescu: reading the piece you linked.
BingoBoingo: I mean need ben_vulpes as a local to heal that issue
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes can be local representative
mircea_popescu: eh you can't conscript people.
BingoBoingo: Anyways at this point I have concerns about the Oregon liberation's ability so sustain itself in the way the Bundy ranch defense has.
mircea_popescu: well that's the difference between a revolution and an invasion.
mircea_popescu: the invasion needs a baggage train.
asciilifeform: the 'revolution', when it takes over a solitary foodless shithole, also needs baggage train.
mircea_popescu: which is why the soviets were an invasion, not a revolution.
BingoBoingo: ;;google Oregon Bearded Bastards
asciilifeform: incidentall, 'oathkeepers' is a social club for usg soldiers
asciilifeform: if that weren't clear
BingoBoingo: Seriously these people need to learn to internet
asciilifeform: (this is not a secret)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> incidentall, 'oathkeepers' is a social club for usg soldiers << Seems to be common knowledge in the actual patriot circles
asciilifeform: no, this is explicitly printed on the box
asciilifeform: it's supposed to be an org for usg soldiers who swear not to fire on the crowd
asciilifeform: often accused of being a stoolie gambit for gestapo, yes
assbot: Militia Liberates Oregon Land From Federal Occupation | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1UFlYTw )
BingoBoingo: Which confirmed stoolie gambit
BingoBoingo: Also their agitation in Ferguson, etc
BingoBoingo: ;;google Citizens for Constitutional Freedom
gribble: Citizens for Constitutional Freedom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_for_Constitutional_Freedom>; Oregon siege: What the armed group wants and why - CNN.com: <http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/04/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-what-bundy-wants/>; Arrest the so-called 'Citizens for Constitutional Freedom' - Chicago ...: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: think for a minute, about the wisdom of a pre-existing public list of commanders who 'promise not to fire on the crowd'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16512 @ 0.00048964 = 8.0849 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> incidentall, 'oathkeepers' is a social club for usg soldiers << this is not unlike saying that incidentally, the guy that shot sadat was from the egyptian military.
mircea_popescu: you don't say...
asciilifeform: aha, printed right on the box
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo state this for my benefit. so how and wherefore what the guy said is stoolie gambit ?
BingoBoingo: In the linked letter to Ammon Bundy, nothing yet. Oatherkeepers SOP seems to be sound reasonable until Eric Holder drone strike panic. 1. Build trust 2. Glass Cannon panic 3. ??? 4. Profit
mircea_popescu: i'm not really up to date.
BingoBoingo: Other role they take is as they did in Ferguson as USG sanctioned popular antagonist. They served as foil to both police and protestors .
mircea_popescu: the problem with this theory is that it has very low predictive power.
BingoBoingo: Well, for tsmr's history more effort was directed towards understanding USG social engineering with the power rangers than the various US patriot militias.
mircea_popescu: not saying by any means that you're wrong or anything, i'm not from there.
BingoBoingo: It's also an area where USG has spent more time directing social engineering
mircea_popescu: old ex-military dudes hanging around with the beers talking about shit ?
mircea_popescu: almost as good as the 10 year reunion of athlethic highschools.
BingoBoingo: In the 1990's this was serious USG concern during first Clitler administration between Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Michigan Militia
BingoBoingo: Various Michigan Militia attracted substantial attention for existing.
BingoBoingo: Basically for USG was about as Urgent as Bitcoin is in 2019
BingoBoingo: Losing large portions of he Western states seems like it might have actually been a concern.
BingoBoingo: If USSR made it to 1997, US may have collapsed in 1994
mircea_popescu: for srs.
mircea_popescu: the whole thing doesn't belong together anyway, it's like "the nation of africa" over there.
mircea_popescu: let congo and ghana go their separate ways already.
BingoBoingo: USG depserately needed 9-11 and 8 years of enthusiasm to tamp down enthusiam for militas built under CLinton
mircea_popescu: i doubt it did much.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00049065 = 5.1518 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: It bought time for USG to build Oathkeepers
BingoBoingo: So this is the Idaho group that is doing the perimeter thing http://www.iiipercentidaho.org/
assbot: 3% of Idaho - When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty! ... ( http://bit.ly/1UFoIAc )
assbot: United States v. Timothy Emerson, Potowmack Institute, amicus curiae, Appendix B ... ( http://bit.ly/1UFoWr6 )
mircea_popescu: " If this were to happen, the state would assert itself as the principle of the contract making the people the agents."
mircea_popescu: guy can't spell ;/
mircea_popescu: "was the armed militia of the American colonies whose own efforts ultimately led to the establishment of the United States of America! While some say that the right to keep and bear arms is granted to Americans by the Constitution, just the opposite is true : the existence of the federal government is granted by the citizens bearing arms, under limits set forth in the constitution"
mircea_popescu: there we go.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> guy can't spell ;/ << transcriptionist couldn't spell.
mircea_popescu: srsly, professional transcriptomonkey doesn't know what a principal is ?
mircea_popescu: need less affirmative action in washington already.
BingoBoingo: Was delivered to United States Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism orally
BingoBoingo: Because 1995
mircea_popescu: anyway, not bad.
BingoBoingo: Compare that to the current US "alt-right" with its "Oath Keepers", MLM-scammers like Glenn Beck, and media social engineering like Trump
mircea_popescu: apparently the guy also came up with the theory japan bombed oklahoma because the us dumped sarin in tokyo ?
mircea_popescu: and was somehow kicked out of michigan / moved to alaska ?
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b61
BingoBoingo: Details
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is glenn beck still selling overpriced gold rounds to suckers ?
BingoBoingo: And Rush Limbaugh is selling Identity theft protection and Cloud backup storage
BingoBoingo: Rush Limbuagh also does a lot of Apple product placement
BingoBoingo: How the American left frames the history of anti-hippies which actually stretches back to the late 60's https://archive.is/sKIoB
assbot: A 'Patriot' Timeline | Southern Poverty Law Center ... ( http://bit.ly/1UFs1XW )
BingoBoingo: Serisouly though, today's alt-right and militia movement almost exclusively communicates on Facebook.
BingoBoingo: Talk about a USG social engineering victory.
mircea_popescu: aha. derps.
BingoBoingo: Fucking BEst Korea!!!!1111!! Over here.
mircea_popescu: "6/18/94 -- Common-law ideologue Brian Knoff is surreptitiously recorded discussing a planned marijuana-smuggling operation through Cuba that he hopes will help to fund other Patriot activists."
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/30AC9GQ
assbot: dpaste: 30AC9GQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1PW9VSy )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: you know im righthere
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and lo it came to pass that one man had sons, which he met because some women he knew introduced them. and those sons presently came upon him and said father, give us warhorses so we may be warriros, for you are a warrior yourself! and the man said better go and capture horses, for i am a warrior and i will soon die, and who'll give you warhorses then ?
asciilifeform: well then mircea_popescu can wait potentially indefinite time until we make a horse out of toothpicks.
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's the dilemma, isn't it : either die of ulcer like naggum or try and supress the nausea of being still alive with these schmucks all around like graham.
asciilifeform: i'm a good way towards the naggum already.
mircea_popescu: i meant for me!
mircea_popescu: i thought we were talking about me!
asciilifeform: more than one fella can ulcer yaknow
asciilifeform: and i think my horse needs a new fuel filter
asciilifeform: or sumthing.
BingoBoingo: Can't you plug it into the computer?
BingoBoingo: Or does gentoo not have drivers for your horse
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: sadly this thread is a continuation of a pgpgram...
BingoBoingo: I thought you meant horse as in your motor carriage needing a fuel filter
asciilifeform: another horse.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Or does gentoo not have drivers for your horse <<< bwahahaha epic.
mircea_popescu: you'll end up with a coveted Kakobrekla Trophy for Dry Wit at this rate.
asciilifeform expects to write own driver for horse.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> you'll end up with a coveted Kakobrekla Trophy for Dry Wit at this rate. << Well I'm still learning this whole "living as a dry person" business
BingoBoingo: It's amazing this whole doing something about a problem instead of drinking about a problem business
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
BingoBoingo: !up Cristina
BingoBoingo: Also all the money I'm saving that can be put towards expenses like HODL, thermal grease, and batteries
mircea_popescu: i thought old people stole all the batteries they used.
asciilifeform: nah they make'em by sticking forks into young people
asciilifeform: (as in potato battery)
BingoBoingo wondering if a catalytic cap for a lead acid battery valves would have the same function on FeNi
BingoBoingo: !up Cristina
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 451.34, vol: 4458.66893435 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 446.094, vol: 5088.17235 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 451.32, vol: 8935.65639376 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 466.5, vol: 2.34695756 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 451.714185, vol: 48676.73960000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 455.0, vol: 86.21654233 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 457.371479989, vol: 19.63880077 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 451.218283222
asciilifeform discovered the other day that $rupturefarm has a very spiffy library. quite comparable to his own, at least on scientific subjects
assbot: dpaste: 290B077: National Security Letters in Foreign Intelligence Investigations: A Glimpse at the Legal Background ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsyIiD )
asciilifeform: mats ^ other usa jurist types
asciilifeform: !up Cristina
asciilifeform: Cristina: please fix your connection
assbot: JL: Jockstrap, Seer of the Palefaces ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rszaxk )
Cristina: !balance
Cristina: que tal todo por a qui ??
Cristina: hola
diana_coman: !rate wyrdmantis 2 trustful builder/crafter in Eulora
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/41e67c2b09f60f52
Cristina: sigo a qui
diana_coman: !v assbot:diana_coman.rate.wyrdmantis.2:4b365be092c15c1c984d08bd50161aa475bc226e45198b58647504f58e90e094
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for wyrdmantis with note: trustful builder/crafter in Eulora
diana_coman: !rated jurov
assbot: You have not rated jurov.
asciilifeform: Cristina: arregla su conexion por favor
diana_coman: !rate jurov 3 official Euloran copper merchant; helpful with programming stuff; smooth and prompt btc transaction
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d632fb127a3c8539
diana_coman: !v assbot:diana_coman.rate.jurov.3:0aa9a3699fc15a1ba3b7b30fd9be4c2a9a38ef70ae44da579c53a54b362d7a8f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 3 for jurov with note: official Euloran copper merchant; helpful with programming stuff; smooth and prompt btc transaction
mircea_popescu: o hey, is William Pierce actually the model for the old dude in american history x ?
BingoBoingo: I'd have to look into that
mircea_popescu: December '97 -- Nearly 100 New York City employees, including some corrections officials, are arrested for using common-law "untaxing" kits to evade taxes.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut
asciilifeform: sold right next to the common-medicine magical cure-all kit
mircea_popescu: 3/17/98 -- Two former New York City police officers become the last of 14 NYPD officers to be convicted in a tax evasion scheme. The two sold tax evasion kits from Patriot groups to other officers for up to $2,000 each.
asciilifeform: and the common-mathematics O(N) factorizer kit
mircea_popescu: "10/13/99 -- Members of the Southern Indiana Regional Militia meet with FBI agents as part of a government effort to defuse tensions between Patriots and officialdom."
mircea_popescu: "1/1/00 -- Despite Patriot expectations that the millennial date change will bring martial law or massive social collapse, nothing of the kind occurs."
mircea_popescu: it is pretty millenaristic innit.
mircea_popescu: "Being a race traitor, yet still tolerated by my pale fellows, I thought it was the least I could do." << how'd he get that ? fucked a black chick ? or what's racely treasonable activity ?
BingoBoingo: He hangs out with black people from time to time
mircea_popescu: "If I might compress a quarter-million years into a paragraph: For hundreds of thousands of years mankind developed along three paths, the African, the Neanderthal and the Disnovian. 74,000 years ago the Toba Super Eruption occurred, causing a six-year nuclear winter, which wiped out all but a couple thousand lucky Africans. I don’t know anything about the Disnovians. I do know that the Neanderthals across Europe and
mircea_popescu: North Asia took the nuclear winter in stride, as they were cold-adapted. By 70,000-40,000 years ago one particular group of Africans produced some killer genius whose genes are in us all. The Neanderthals were wiped out soon thereafter at the peak of a nasty ice age that they were best suited to deal with. They were murdered."
mircea_popescu: this is rank nonsense. for one thing, the cro-magnon did it, not some obscure "african".
BingoBoingo: Can't expect retail expert to be history expert
assbot: agritheia comments on What was your 'I don't get paid enough for this shit' moment? ... ( http://bit.ly/1kWcM0N )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00048513 = 8.0532 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6358 @ 0.00048937 = 3.1114 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8854 @ 0.00048946 = 4.3337 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6302 @ 0.00049115 = 3.0952 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5579 @ 0.00049351 = 2.7533 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9621 @ 0.00049732 = 4.7847 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9258 @ 0.00049323 = 4.5663 BTC [-] {2}
deedbot-: [Trilema] The big day. - http://trilema.com/2016/the-big-day/
ben_vulpes: trinque: is there a reason verify.mk uses `SHA512' instead of `sha512'?
ben_vulpes reads, nm
trinque: ben_vulpes: that's one of the knobs
ben_vulpes twiddles
ben_vulpes: i already ripped the -s flag off the boost download, 'cuz i'm impatient and curious.
ben_vulpes: trinque: build/Makefile:16 `tar xvf' -> `tar xvzf` << any reason i shouldn't do this?
ben_vulpes: without, tar complains that the file uses gzip and that one must provide the `z' flag.
trinque: ben_vulpes: a verbosity knob might be nice
ben_vulpes: i'm talking about the gzip flag.
trinque: ben_vulpes │ i already ripped the -s flag off the boost download, 'cuz i'm impatient and curious. <<
trinque: but yeah I'll add that to the tar cmd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00048471 = 1.7934 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4639 @ 0.00048471 = 2.2486 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: trinque: fired your makefiles on obsd yet?
trinque: yeah, buildroot is very unhappy.
trinque: understandably so, as I understand that thing to be linux specific
ben_vulpes: that'd be it then.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00048406 = 4.5018 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: at least pulling the deps/shit works with make SHA512=sha512
trinque: ben_vulpes: and in fact if the buildroot step were stuck inside Makefile.rotor, it'd be trivial to have a Makefile.openbsd aside it
trinque: then it'd be make BUILDER=openbsd SHA512=sha512
trinque: V setup works fine on openbsd
trinque: yep, I'm moving buildroot, makes total sense
ben_vulpes: cool.
ben_vulpes: neat stuff, dood.
ben_vulpes: gotcha, okay, starting to see how this all fits together.
trinque: ben_vulpes │ neat stuff, dood. << ty
ben_vulpes: ping me when you have new makefiles, i'm going to remap keys and engage in other weeding-type activities on this machine
trinque: ben_vulpes: I'll probably not throw another onto the mailing list before fixing the boost build
trinque: maybe tomorrow
ben_vulpes: fix << meaning address the failed targets?
trinque: yeah
trinque: || true << abominable
ben_vulpes: hail satan
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5170 @ 0.0004879 = 2.5224 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: The Nintendo They've Tried to Forget: Gambling, Gangsters, and Love Hotels ... ( http://bit.ly/1OHuCQY )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.0004936 = 4.393 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: ahaha what the fuck "or true"
mircea_popescu: !up saifedean
mircea_popescu: but yeh, nice script you got there trinque
saifedean: good evening, everyone!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40799 @ 0.00048201 = 19.6655 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00047927 = 2.636 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: how goes lebanon ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00047485 = 1.3771 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00047463 = 4.4615 BTC [-] {3}
saifedean: lebanon is as it always is, mundanely on the precipice of exploding
saifedean: people hating each other and religious wars escalating everywhere... but... you know... the party must go on
saifedean: unfortunately i'm not there for the next few months, moved to Windsor, Ontario, of all fucking places, the exact opposite of Lebanon if ever there was one
mircea_popescu: who the fuck lives in ontario for the winter and in damascus for the civil war.
saifedean: haha, well-put
saifedean: well, the wife is due to deliver our first child in the next month or so, and we decided to come give birth here where my in-laws are, ensuring the girl gets the Canadian passport
saifedean: it's not the most exciting place in the world, but it's across the river from detroit, which stands as a constant reminded that shit could be worse
mircea_popescu: i can see it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00047254 = 10.3723 BTC [-] {6}
saifedean: this place is so deadly boring it's unreal, but at least it's not a terribly cold winter, and I'm getting plenty of reading done... Also, it's not like you need much excitement to add to your life when you're expecting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00047125 = 3.1809 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: well... the woman's expecting. you're just reading.
saifedean: well, not quite, there's a surprisingly large amount of stuff to do, learn, and decide if you choose not to hand over the entire process to the medical bezzle
mircea_popescu: o, that.
saifedean: this has been an enormously edifying experience... most important lesson learned is that handing over a pregnant woman to a hospital and obgyn is fucking nuts
saifedean: the bezzle has completely destroyed people's conception of what birth is
saifedean: it's treated like an emergency like a car crash, when it's a natural process like sex
mircea_popescu: and the internet has ruined people's idea of what makes good storytelling. don't summarize, be specific.
saifedean: trying to give birth in hospital makes as much sense as trying to have sex there
mircea_popescu: you never banged in a hosptial ?
mircea_popescu: dead people make me horny.
saifedean: essentially: if a woman is left on her own in a comfortable setting with the father, her body will do all the work and pop the baby out painlessly and even pleasurably, the baby comes out healthy and looks for the tit to feed, it stays connected to the umbilical chord and placenta for a few days, the placenta empties all the nutrients and blood into the baby, and the baby grows healthy
saifedean: all the complications of birth come precisely from the medical bezzle trying to barge in on this natural process to make a buck, basically
mircea_popescu: look into "health" circumcision sometime.
mircea_popescu: but anyway. natural birth has a huge following in the states. almost unknown in yurp.
saifedean: they'll whisk her in an ambulance and freak the shit out of her, causing her vagina to contract just when it needs to expand. this then necessitates painful pushing, which usually doesn't work, necessitating cutting up and stitching, the baby comes out bloody and bruised and the woman can't breastfeed for hours, which will then destroy the baby's ability to latch properly
saifedean: and most brutally, the fucking doctor wanting to go home quickly means he'll cut the umbilical chord immediately, suffocating the child and depriving him of about a third of his blood
saifedean: this for me is the difference between the barbarian and civilized humans today: the civilized have the time and choice to wait on the placenta to empty into the baby. The barbarians are told by the doctor the placenta should be cut immediately
mircea_popescu: who the fuck goes to the maternity ward in an ambulance ?!
saifedean: people with insurance, that's who
mircea_popescu: no way. srsly ?!
saifedean: "you don't wanna take chances with your baby's health"
mircea_popescu: there can't be enough fucking ambulances.
saifedean: the stuff you learn will blow your mind
saifedean: also, the post-birth interventions they do in the medical bezzle are astonishing... within an hour or so, the baby wil have had a vaccine against Hepatitis B, which I guess makes sense if you intend to pimp the child out in the first week. they'll give them an eye drop to protect against the possibility of the mom having chlamydia, regardless of whether she has it or not, thus destroying the child's vision for a few days..
saifedean: and then, the coup de grace, they give him a little sugar in the first hour to drug him and stop him crying from being separated from his mom while they do all the bezzle they wanna do
mircea_popescu: o yeah, the whole first day vaccination business is both novel and outrageous.
saifedean: all of which is not just unnecessary, but actively harmful. the child needs absolutely nothing in their first hours except their mom's milk. They need nothing for the first 6 months except her milk and sunshine
mircea_popescu: not all kids actually want to eat immediately.
saifedean: but the interventionist bezzle logic we have all come to know and love from economics is applied with vigor at birth, producing mentally, physically and emotionally stunted idiots ready for the modern world's demands
saifedean: breastfeeding in the first hour is essential for the child and for the mom's breasts, it's part of the birth process
mircea_popescu: not all women actually can breastfeed altogether.
saifedean: the child should learn to latch onto the tit before anything else. In the fucking bezzle they give them the pacifier before the tit, and then they'll never latch properly... which happily enough creates endless business for Gerber and other peddlers of poison
asciilifeform: !up saifedean
mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot saifedean
assbot: saifedean is not registered in WoT.
saifedean: if she can get pregnant, she can breastfeed, it's all part of the same package
mircea_popescu: heh if only. if you can get it up, you can make her come, too ?
saifedean: the problems of breastfeeding all come from the mom not being given the child to breastfeed immediately
saifedean: inaccurate analogy, since she's another human. but if her body can carry a baby for 9 months, and if she eats well and takes care of herself, she will get milk
saifedean: she could fuck it all up of course, but it takes deliberate human fuckery to stop her breastfeeding
mircea_popescu: it's a body, anything in it can not work.
saifedean: and of course, a big, big part of this is diet, what the mom eats before, during, and after pregnancy
mircea_popescu: or whether she has a tyroid condition. or cystic ovaries. or or or.
saifedean: if you can get your dick up, you can fuck with it. Doesn't mean you will... you could still fuck it up.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 556 @ 0.0042 = 2.3352 BTC [+]
saifedean: she's got to actively fuck it up for her to not breastfeed... look at all real world examples, and you find a woman who ate shit, or who had a caesarian and didn't bother try breastfeeding for a few days, or as is usually the case, a woman who just can't be bothered and came up wiht a story
mircea_popescu: looky, i appreciate the youthful activist and half-doctor approach, but srsly, talk to an actual clinician. it doesn't always work. it sucks that it doesn't, it's maybe overreported, it's often just fancies in the woman's head, but not always. sometimes it dun work.
saifedean: of course the medical bezzle is always happy to oblige with "conditions"
saifedean: appreciate the faith in your clinician, but don't listen to those guys if you're having a child of your own, they're not in it for your benefit, they have med school loans to pay
saifedean: and they can't pay them if they deviate from the script...
trinque: I'll give it a coupla drops of truth in a bucket of rhetoric
saifedean: do you also talk to an economist phd to get your perspective on Bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: heh, i knew doctors with half century's experience before money was even fucking invented, you kidding me ?
assbot: The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby & Child Care: Sally Fallon Morell, Thomas S. Cowan: 9780982338315: Books - Amazon.ca ... ( http://bit.ly/1OHxoWD )
mircea_popescu: and yes i talk to economists. as it happens the brightest mind in banking alive today is from my old country.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 298 @ 0.00645 = 1.9221 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: isnt that the chick at war with the fda over the whole raw milk thing ?
saifedean: you'll find it in pdf online if you look; reading it is a far better use of your time than arguing!
saifedean: among many other wars, yes!
mircea_popescu: here's a fun fact : you can buy raw milk in romania from a fucking machine.
saifedean: are you familiar with Weston Price?
mircea_popescu: ~euro a liter.
mircea_popescu: not particularly.
saifedean: That muthafucka knew his shit
mircea_popescu: anyway, all these nitwits that aren't from cattle country don't know wtf milk is, even.
mircea_popescu: they do a lot of diary in lebanon don't they ?
saifedean: it's a travesty that he's been completely forgotten... he's basically the Mises of nutrition
saifedean: yeah they do
asciilifeform: phun phakt: the 'antivax' hippie folk won in usa west coast. where there are now pandemics of crippling nasties (rubella, etc) last seen in 1940s
mircea_popescu: yeah. "o my god raw milk". herp.
saifedean: Weston Price traveled the world for decades observing different cultures and their foods and examining the link with health and degeneration... pretty startling stuff
saifedean: raw milk is not that interesting an issue, ignore it
saifedean: but do read Weston Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration
saifedean: the internet has that somewhere, too
mircea_popescu: it's pretty funny. "science!!1"
saifedean: weren't you the one who wrote a post about how dumb it is to be hostile to things you do not know about?
mircea_popescu: seems likely. which one ?
asciilifeform: there is a surprisingly rich set of literature in... alchemy
saifedean: can't remember the post, but it stuck with me and has saved me plenty of time by always ignoring arguments from people hostile to things they don't know... mainly bitcoin and health, funnily enough
mircea_popescu: anyway, i was discussing whether raw milk is interesting or not. it's interesting, to me, because lol.
saifedean: yes asciilifeform, there is, by the sort of people who invented basically all the science and knowledge that got us out of swimming in our own shit in the jungle!
saifedean: i've never had raw milk, don't know a source i can trust in lebanon, and it's illegal to buy it here in Ontario!
mircea_popescu: what, seriously ?!
mircea_popescu: you ever milked a cow ?
saifedean: Isaac Newton was an alchemist primarily, physics and chemistry were the languages he used to speak to the plebs
saifedean: nope, never milked a cow...
mircea_popescu: and you call yourself a lebanonesian ?!
mircea_popescu: anyway. i milked a cow. prolly can still do it.
asciilifeform: saifedean: aha. but for some reason i have yet to meet a practicing physicist who read newton's alchemical works.
saifedean: i ain't even lebanonesian, bro. I'm actually palestinian
mircea_popescu: ah right that explains it!
asciilifeform worked for a palestinian fella for many years
saifedean: it's sad that your physicist friends havent read alchemists, but i'm gonna go ahead and guess that's sad for them, not for the alchemists... here's a list of actual aclhemists, imagine where you'd be without their contributions to your life!
assbot: List of alchemists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1OHy6TE )
mircea_popescu: honestly, to me all this sorta stuff, much like the "eu legislation" on "contaminated animal productS" ie, edible cheese, is a case of derpy dudes thinking chickens come out of the supermarket.
asciilifeform: saifedean: 'civilization begins with distillation' (tm) (r) (falkner) aha
asciilifeform: but where the hell is my philosopher's stone.
mircea_popescu: and i certainly aren't about to read some anglo derps on how and what to eat.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, i still have latin.
saifedean: ah, if only they sold that on amazon ascii
mircea_popescu: for another... what the fuck, i didn't grow up in a hole.
mircea_popescu: to quote disraeli, "who are you people again ?"
saifedean: the problem with this sort of debate is that i've lived the life of the cake-munching sugar-addled modern nutrition believing fatty, and i've tried the opposite... which makes this conversation difficult
saifedean: latin, after all, came from a sedentary agricultural society of grain-addicted fatties... you wanna look at pre-agricultural societies to see how to really be well-fed
saifedean: unfortunately those people don't write, but fortunately, some people who do write have studied them... like weston price
saifedean: who, in his defense, was not even american... he was my ontario homeboy
mircea_popescu: you've tried the opposite but never suckled off a cow.
mircea_popescu: what makes the discussion difficult is the significant chasm between what'd you want and what actrually is there.
saifedean: no, but i've had raw liver, which is much better :)
mircea_popescu: "i never had x but had y which is much better" is what you said to me ? how the fuck'd you know!
saifedean: look, i'd love to try good raw milk, and if you can hook a brother up, let me know... but, you know, it ain't the be all end all of human knowledge
punkman: /me is considering kokorec leftovers for breakfast
mircea_popescu: alright... ever had woman milk ?
saifedean: yes, my mother's
mircea_popescu: not your mother's. as an adult!
saifedean: did the job, im alive and healthy
saifedean: but no, not as an adult
mircea_popescu: dude... cows, ok, i can see, they don't grow everywhere.
mircea_popescu: but women are literally ubiquitous.
mircea_popescu: less reading more suckling ok ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30251 @ 0.00047288 = 14.3051 BTC [+] {2}
saifedean: punkman is a man after my heart... kokorec is fucking good, whereabouts are you? turkey?
mircea_popescu: practically.
mircea_popescu: morea eyalet
punkman: saifedean: greece
saifedean: what's your deal with milk mircea?
punkman: grandma always boiled the raw milk, I'm sticking with that
mircea_popescu: !up saifedean
mircea_popescu: wow check it out, it was its own province, girit
mircea_popescu: saifedean my deal ? whole thing started from it neh
saifedean: milk's essential for kids, for at least a year, but i'm honestly not convinced grown-ups should even be drinking it, weston price be damned
assbot: Kingdom of Candia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pl99K4 )
saifedean: animal fats and meat is all a man needs
mircea_popescu: eh how'd you know. at least that dude has the excuse of a lot of bad dinners all over.
saifedean: the last two months i've basically eaten nothing but fatty meat, never been healthier
mircea_popescu: you should be an alchemist and write great books on theoretical physics.
mircea_popescu: for my part, for the past two weeks i've only been slapping butts with my left hand and i've never been taller.
saifedean: gotta finish popping babies and feeding them properly first, then focus on econ, then alchemy... theoretical physics does not interest me much
trinque: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3NTMCM8.txt )
asciilifeform: saifedean would get on well with funkenstein, i think.
mircea_popescu: my money says they'd find a point of principle to disagree on and not be on speaking terms.
asciilifeform: and hey also orlov.
saifedean: who's funkenstein and does he paleo?
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> here's a fun fact : you can buy raw milk in romania << same here in Connecticut, the one state in all of the ussa that permits sale outside of a farm
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron technically this was on a farm. the way they sorted it out was that the farm rented 20 sqft from the supermarket, plopped a machine down there. serviced it daily, there's a resident tech that does analytics.
danielpbarron: ah, I can go buy it raw from the store shelf
mircea_popescu: it doesn't keep unrefrigerated, does it.
danielpbarron: i haven't tried to keep it out of the fridge, but it seems to age more gracefully in general
mircea_popescu: certainly can make your own curds.
saifedean: daniel, i didn't know that, might pop across the border next time I'm in NYC to see what it's like
danielpbarron: instead of turning rancid it just turns sour
danielpbarron: saifedean, not many stores sell it; not even whole foods last i checked
assbot: Joiana | JOIANA Timișoara ... ( http://bit.ly/1OHzEgz )
saifedean: criminals, all these people, they'd go to jail in the good ole US of A
punkman: I just realized if you try to vocalize TMSR you end up with something close to "timisoara"
asciilifeform: punkman: l0l just now realized ?
mircea_popescu: punkman and another insider joke falls slain by your attentive read!
punkman: asciilifeform: ikr looks obvious now
asciilifeform: btw timisoara absolutely ruled, imho
mircea_popescu: you just liked the gypsy twists.
mircea_popescu: fucking village, doesn't even have a tiny and cramped bdsm club
asciilifeform: it reminded me of home planet.
asciilifeform: climate was exactly right. my eternal allergy stopped, even.
mircea_popescu: well it was the better part of the year.
saifedean: ladies and gentlement i present you my first witness and exhibit A... the great paleo convert Bitstein of Texas, prayers and blessings be upon him
assbot: Active No-Carber Forums :: Bear's Words Of Wisdom ... ( http://bit.ly/1Plar7S )
assbot: The Fat of the Land / Not By Bread Alone – Vilhjalmur Stefansson ... ( http://bit.ly/1Plaroc )
assbot: Miki Ben-Dor — Interdisciplinary Reconstruction of the Paleolithic Di… ... ( http://bit.ly/1Plarol )
saifedean: yeah it really isn't just me who's into all this weirdness :D
assbot: Space Cadet Keyboard | Flickr - Photo Sharing! ... ( http://bit.ly/1PlayAj )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
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