Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-09-08 | 2015-09-10 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5481 @ 0.00074932 = 4.107 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo becoming convinced no one does better blackface than the Japs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00074932 = 7.0061 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-09-2015#1263077 << continuing our series of "power rangers are retarded lol", today's installment : bitcoind's idea of "passwords" allows digita and lowercase characters. no symbols no uppercase. not only does this mean a bitcoind pw is half the strength of a normal pw, but (the actual likely purpose of this retardation) it makes it trivial to identify wallet password lists. ESPEC
assbot: Logged on 05-09-2015 02:38:55; mircea_popescu: in today's lulz : it turns out that bitcoin-qt interface, if presented with a malformed value such as 1,275 btc instead of the 1.275 notation,
mircea_popescu: IALLY seeing how the fucktarded implementation of "accounts" etc pretty much ensures everyone will be using multiplew wallets.
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqfjiuqVrV4 << when usg says "jump," gates jumps !
assbot: Bill Gates jumping over a chair like a gangster - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ox8INT )
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano? << He only needs format comptibility
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-09-2015#1265774 << I hack it using the parenscript REPL you can find in the Masamune repository. Mozrepl (the basis) provides some very rudimentary debugging facities that tbh, I almost never use due to a burning hatred of js and no reason to ever sharpen that edge of the blade.
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 23:21:26; trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Conkeror has made its way into daily use; JS debugging tips? Best thing providing a JS REPL in Emacs?
gabriel_laddel: Incidentally, improving the browser interface is what I plan on using to punish interns / employees who create DSLs, configuration file formats, non-reader macro syntax extensions...
gabriel_laddel: Something like 40% of the conkeror js translates to PS without signaling conditions using the included js->ps transpiler.
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 21:39:45; ascii_field: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel http://www.sigsam.org/bulletin/articles/178/stoutemyer.pdf << some actual implementation details re: 'derive' & 'mulisp'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00074966 = 20.3158 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 23:28:45; trinque: davout: ruby is objectively butts. rebuttal?
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> Incidentally, improving the browser interface is what I plan on using to punish interns / employees who create DSLs, configuration file formats, non-reader macro syntax extensions... << How is "improving:" and not "killing" the word here
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267085 << the famished take self-funded sabbaticals now ? not that mats is wealthy, but eating wallpaper he ain't.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 02:24:59; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266831 << i don't know the fella personally, but as i gather his main problem is starvation. it makes people foolish, i speak from experience
pete_dushenski: though, yes, to be sure, hunger can make a man crazy.
pete_dushenski: though i have to say, asciilifeform, for a starved man, you think mighty clearly.
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Sharp blades excise tumors like javascript
gabriel_laddel: whatever
gabriel_laddel: e.g., scriping combinations of browser movements, OCR routines and X windows level key-presses together for data mining
gabriel_laddel: there is a partially complete js->parenscript transpiler so that you don't have to read js
gabriel_laddel: just hack parenscript (which compiles down to JS)
gabriel_laddel: you get macros etc.
BingoBoingo: Scripting web content ought to entirely be the user's choice
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SzIXy-oFlU << if anything is microaggression, this is it. unambiguously directed yet so far from lethal it's laughable.
assbot: Hungarian camerawoman fired after intentionally kicking, tripping refugees - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxbRxc )
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: I don't think you have context here
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: A page is a document. Why should anyone other than the user impose any scripts upon the text?
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because I want your information pl0x and I'm not going to ask nicely.
BingoBoingo: Because FUCK YOU. Few things are worse than a textbooks with highlights already
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: it is quite obvious that I've poorly expressed exactly why the web interface for Masamune exists.
gabriel_laddel: I don't know wtf textbook highlighting has to do with anything
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: You have to understand I am appraoching this as a trained Librarian. Scripting is at best a form of highlighting (never a reason for broswerscript or postscript to be turing complete) Everything else it does is vandalism
gabriel_laddel: nah, you've got it backwards
gabriel_laddel: the correct model is that you never have a DSL or "mini-language"
gabriel_laddel: the full power of the machine should be yours, at all times
gabriel_laddel: Want to launch a 3D visualization from a button press in the back of the settings menu? Sure, why not.
BingoBoingo: Who are you pointing "yours" at?
gabriel_laddel: He who wields Masamune, a loper device, lispm etc.
BingoBoingo: I'm just wondering who at all should have to eat javascript asbestos to become a Great Red Dragon of the Information age.
punkman: and what's wrong with notation/dsl/mini-languages?
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: Enough with the almost analogies already. They're an escape hatch to nowhere.
BingoBoingo: Fuck You Imma Dragon.
gabriel_laddel: punkman: you lose the full power of the programming language.
gabriel_laddel: one sec, thinking of an example...
BingoBoingo: This Dragon says No Javascript or experiance famine
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> punkman: you lose the full power of the programming language. << In nearly every case a 3rd part gives you code you don't want a full language. You want a plainly crippled language.
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: wrong wrong wrong, study more
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: If I want to print pretty papers I don't need, want, or desire turing complete postscript
trinque: not until you do
gabriel_laddel: punkman: the problem with creating "DSLs" in ALGOL is that you end up losing M-. (jump to definition) and any ability you may have had to interact with the AST of the previous programming language (read: the actual language, as it is the thing that contains all the semantics) when you change the syntax
trinque: better to be able to extend your DSL at will
gabriel_laddel: punkman: the whole DSL thing doesn't have a name in lisp because it isn't needed
gabriel_laddel: "Here are some abstractions, solve the problem." The end
BingoBoingo: The entire point of domain specific languages is shutting opportunities to drop turds everywhere out
punkman: gabriel_laddel: I get your point but also, this kinda sounds to me like "don't use math symbols, write it all with the full power of english"
gabriel_laddel: punkman: have you tried lisp yet?
trinque: BingoBoingo: dunno bout that; isn't it to model your problem in clear terms?
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: thins can all be done at the UI level
BingoBoingo: trinque: Yes, and almost always my problem is reading some fucking text
trinque: !up refferedbyloper
trinque: speak mortal!
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: hide it all behind Super-Meta-click and leave the rest to Congnition Stratifies(TM)
punkman: gabriel_laddel: I haven't because I don't wanna emacs
gabriel_laddel: punkman: okay, okay
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: No, You don't fucking make XML
gabriel_laddel: punkman: so when you create a new format or something in ALGOL you have to create a new parser right?
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: meh, I'm done here, read more or something
gabriel_laddel: punkman: and everytime this happens you need all new tooling for this new language, right?
gabriel_laddel: because you can't "get at" the AST, because that isn't how people naively write parsers.
gabriel_laddel: so, this doesn't happen in lisp because everything IS it's own AST, as is.
assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxemzJ )
gabriel_laddel: now, that AST (in blue) can be mapped, with no loss of information to the "lisp" (s-expression) under it: (/ (* (+ 3 2) 8) (* 3 (^ 3 6)))
trinque: gabriel_laddel: nice "hey look we invented lisp" at the beginning there
gabriel_laddel: punkman: When you hack lisp, everything "deals in" (modifies, returns) these structures.
gabriel_laddel: so you never have to write another parser
gabriel_laddel: and all your tooling always works
gabriel_laddel: because you can always "open up" any "structure" and are guaranteed to get more of the same i.e., lisp, i.e., sexprs
gabriel_laddel: which you already speak, because you're lisping
gabriel_laddel: trinque: at the beginning of (I'd assume "A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem" but don't see it there)?
trinque: gabriel_laddel: just the bit about how if we don't make all these assumptions about order of operations, and arrange things sensibly, we've got sexps
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40890 @ 0.000755 = 30.872 BTC [+] {6}
gabriel_laddel: trinque: Oh.
trinque: I taught someone a bit of scheme recently (alongside SICP) and used roughly that approach.
BingoBoingo: What part of the utterance "Fuck You" is formal enough to be an sexpr
trinque: started with math, said "what if we didn't have any order of operations except those explicitly stated, and also "wtf re: infix anyway?"
trinque: student got it just fine
gabriel_laddel: nothing particularly challenging about it
BingoBoingo: Human language contains ambiguities, Machine languages are formal, why try to bin them together entirely?
trinque: gabriel_laddel: not at all; they've already learned more syntax via basic algebra
gabriel_laddel: good for them
trinque: BingoBoingo: not sure I hear the question
gabriel_laddel: trinque: hey guess what
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I got maxima loaded into my master lisp proc
trinque: neato
gabriel_laddel: and figured out how to get and eval maxima ASTs
BingoBoingo: trinque: No question, FYIAD
gabriel_laddel: Partially through translating the imaxima LaTeX stuff such that you can take a maxima AST, view it as LaTeX, maxima syntax or lisp all at the CLIM listener.
trinque: BingoBoingo: I would say mr gabriel_laddel has it, that all syntaxes can be done within the lisp system, and simultaneously you find that the vast majority aren't necessary
trinque: gabriel_laddel: sounds very nice
gabriel_laddel: Reader macros also allow you to deal with syntax mechanically for whatever it's worth.
trinque: I've only so far written macros to deal with the hair of someone else's shit
BingoBoingo: Parse less of everything.
trinque: never found a use for them in my own code to date
gabriel_laddel: trinque: reader macros or macros?
trinque: haven't used either for anything aside from regular macros to make some stumpwm config prettier
trinque: and that was more or less looking for a reason
BingoBoingo wonders when unblemished text became the problem.
BingoBoingo: WHy do such things need parsed by machine?
trinque: no one says your qntras have to be parsable, but it might be nice if the language you configure your editor/DE/OS with is.
BingoBoingo: When did graphs in D3 become essential and not luxuries
trinque: XML syntax is a heinous misstep that affords little, demands much
BingoBoingo: <trinque> no one says your qntras have to be parsable, but it might be nice if the language you configure your editor/DE/OS with is. << And at what point should barin authored text end and machine authored text begin?
trinque: in my opinion one is a subset of the other
trinque: supposing your syntax has a "here be dragons" token
gabriel_laddel: "On the historical evidence I shall be short. Carl Friedrich Gauss, the Prince of Mathematicians but also somewhat of a coward, was certainly aware of the fate of Galileo —and could probably have predicted the calumniation of Einstein— when he decided to suppress his discovery of non-Euclidean geometry, thus leaving it to Bolyai and Lobatchewsky to receive the flak. It is probably more illuminating to go a littl
gabriel_laddel: e bit further back, to the Middle Ages. One of its characteristics was that 'reasoning by analogy' was rampant; another characteristic was almost total intellectual stagnation, and we now see why the two go together. A reason for mentioning this is to point out that, by developing a keen ear for unwarranted analogies, one can detect a lot of medieval thinking today." -- https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/
gabriel_laddel: EWD10xx/EWD1036.html
BingoBoingo: <trinque> XML syntax is a heinous misstep that affords little, demands much << It is, and When gabriel_laddel talks massamune unfortunately I read XML or XML with paren
trinque: we shall see; guy hasn't released anything yet and signed his name thereupon
BingoBoingo: But even in LISP people there is a divide between machine language and "people" language. One can not adequately enjoy the lamentations of enemy women in machine language
gabriel_laddel: I cut 3 paragraphs from that quote, which are quite relevent to this conversation.
BingoBoingo: dpaste? deedbot?
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: I swear to you that you can input arbitrary strings in LISP.
trinque: "here be dragons" was poetic license for that
trinque: any grammar can just say "here's the header, here's the footer, go nuts kid"
assbot: Lil Debbie - LOFTY - Official Video - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oxipfe )
trinque: you know... like strings
gabriel_laddel: trinque: lol, we understand each other. BingoBoingo doesn't though.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: But at some point people want to put arbitray string on their own.
trinque: nothing can be on its own
BingoBoingo: The point where you decide to eat javascript is the point you go coprophilliac for satan
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: why take my (or anyone else's) word for it, spin up an SBCL REPL.
gabriel_laddel: apt-get install sbcl or whatever.
BingoBoingo: Cutting HTML, markdown, or postscript to bare text is fine. Cutting javascript to OMGWTFBBQ 3D graphs but translated is the devil incarnate.
BingoBoingo: If you catch the devil hold him close for you shall not catch him again.
trinque: are we talking about the web here?
trinque: or generally that there should be more text-only content?
trinque: I would agree that where the written word is concerned, please do not give me a single-page JS app
gabriel_laddel: trinque: he is discussing nope.js, the javascript to parenscript transpiler
BingoBoingo: trinque: I am referring to the latter in reference to gabriel_laddel's assertion javascript should be parsed at all.
gabriel_laddel: (partially complete)
trinque: mein gott
gabriel_laddel: (it does an old version of JS)
BingoBoingo: No version of JS is acceptable
BingoBoingo: No version of postscript is acceptable either unless read with eyes and generated with TeX under careful watch with rifle at hand.
gabriel_laddel: srsly gtfo
BingoBoingo: Srsly we are dealing with the devil and his works
trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow
trinque: I tend to lean the way deedbot.org looks
pete_dushenski: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/08/a-white-guy-named-michael-couldnt-get-his-poem-published-then-he-became-yi-fen-chou/ << "Hudson’s critics said the literary bait-and-switch was fraudulent, racist and fundamentally different from Charlotte Bronte publishing “Jane Eyre” under the name Currer Bell."
assbot: A white guy named Michael couldn’t get his poem published. Then he became Yi-Fen Chou. - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0tS81 )
BingoBoingo: I'm not about to feed nytimes.com into anything that would do other than discard its JS
trinque: but I've written some parenscript and it worked fine, and kept my brain from having context-switch fatigue
trinque: the languages are close enough that it's really just an alternate JS syntax; not like you're compiling haskell to JS
punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.
trinque: the JS output is entirely readable
trinque: punkman: yeah well I don't start with boil the ocean
trinque: but that'd be cool.
BingoBoingo: trinque: I may be drunk so I may not have started my objections at the right place. Whatever code you privately jizz onto servers is yours. Code you try to make other people execute is a crime.
trinque: now that's a place to begin talking.
BingoBoingo: punkman: I'm liking Dillo a lot.
trinque: BingoBoingo: I would much rather download someone's signed lisp program and run that locally than have this horrible half-creature that grabs code from everywhere, tries to "sandbox" it, and runs without so much as a gpg fart in the wind
gabriel_laddel: punkman: trinque: the idea here is to use nope.js on conkeror, which is written in js
BingoBoingo: trinque: Than do as I do, and don't run it.
trinque: indeed.
gabriel_laddel: it does about 40% right now
gabriel_laddel: needs some love
trinque: gabriel_laddel: yeah that immediately pissed me off
trinque: expected lisp in conkeror, then... sadness
gabriel_laddel: scripting it with PS sucks unless it is the "base layer" of the UI
gabriel_laddel: which will take some work
BingoBoingo: What is nope.js and how does it differ from mozilla pdf.js???? Why trust any javascript runtime?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7170 @ 0.00075661 = 5.4249 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: nope.js is the name of the transpiler
punkman: gabriel_laddel: well even if you can translate all the worl'ds js to lisp, I still don't want any JS
trinque: BingoBoingo: he's talking about in the sort of XUL layer, if I understand firefox
BingoBoingo: Yet you still write it in JS???
BingoBoingo: trinque: And that's a problem
gabriel_laddel: punkman: there isn't really anyway out of that
gabriel_laddel: unless I'm missing something big
BingoBoingo: Zool is not a container, it is another devil.
gabriel_laddel: my plan is to OCR + script the fuck out of the web
gabriel_laddel: we shall see how it goes
gabriel_laddel: building tesseract atm
BingoBoingo: Fuck it, lets pass around javascript turds as FLAC files so we can infect our machines with cassette tapes
trinque: I'm actually on-board that hypertext shouldn't specify executable code within
punkman: I think youtube-dl has the right idea. https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl
assbot: rg3/youtube-dl · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0uw5t )
trinque: maybe it's got some data structure in it that has various "viewers"
gabriel_laddel: trinque: presentation methods!?
trinque: gabriel_laddel: yeah that
trinque: CLIMweb when?
gabriel_laddel: wtf is this hypertext
gabriel_laddel: why "web"
trinque: gabriel_laddel: hypertext is a word.
gabriel_laddel: just programs with networking functionality
trinque: has a very useful meaning.
gabriel_laddel: what, every MMORPG is a "web" too?
trinque: no, hypertext is not that
gabriel_laddel: trinque: it does?
trinque: oh stop, there were hypertext systems on general
punkman: hypertext is term of art
trinque: *genera
gabriel_laddel: trinque: they didn't do *everything* correctly, but yes.
gabriel_laddel: maxima has it's own syntax, for example.
trinque: point being!
gabriel_laddel: but I want the AST!
trinque: this hypertext thing has massively worked out
trinque: don't be stupid and ignore that
trinque: because the browser is shit
gabriel_laddel: why not use presentations?
gabriel_laddel: I don't get why I need another language?
gabriel_laddel: here are some objects, display them. "OK"
trinque: don't care what you use; give me a universal reference to *THAT* concept
trinque: and let me point at your concepts and make reference to them on *my* thing
trinque: in the don't-call-it-hypertext
gabriel_laddel: You want Super-Meta-Click IMHO
gabriel_laddel: finding link
trinque: hypertext you understand is just an extension of what writing already was.
trinque: you don't just write in isolation; you write in a vast context of interrelated concepts
trinque: so no, I don't think "run lisp program and open socket" is enough
trinque: mabye we're all running the same lisp program, but you have to have a space within which (distributed CLOS??) the thing we're doing poorly on the www can be done better
gabriel_laddel: Sure, I send you a sexpr containing a program you can load.
gabriel_laddel: dunno what else you could possibly want, other than sane 3D etc.
trinque: how did I know I want your program?
gabriel_laddel: the "scaffolding" will evolve as you go
trinque: which is composed of what structure
trinque: meaning. today I google some nonsense and google gives me my propagandized results
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:35:09; gabriel_laddel: there is a partially complete js->parenscript transpiler so that you don't have to read js
mircea_popescu: it spills trans.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it spills trans. << I though that was called prison???
trinque: damn socialists spilling trans everywhere
gabriel_laddel: trinque: so someone could write and distribute a "~google search" that looks over the CLIM streams of all GUIs it knows about.
mircea_popescu: alternatively it could be transpieler. where you play with the tran.
trinque: right, that thing is necessary
gabriel_laddel: if you don't like it, well, you've got the sexprs right there
mircea_popescu: also i would like to point out that sex needs no pr.
trinque: wahaha
trinque: getting rather well known
BingoBoingo: <trinque> hypertext you understand is just an extension of what writing already was. << Seriously there is a specific harmless language or subset of language necessary for playing the presentation role. Something that by it's Phoosis can be presented safely
trinque: I see what's asked for there.
trinque: and on the other end, gabriel_laddel will tell you that's a (small) subset of his lispy metaverse
mircea_popescu: the drunk to cereal interaction is very golden.
trinque: gabriel_laddel: what of gentlemen like BingoBoingo that want to write and link things
BingoBoingo: For safety though it should not be a part of that, but merely interpreted through a progam in that
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I don't see how this is a problem?
trinque: in what space do these links exist? what are they addressing? so on so on
gabriel_laddel: trinque: well these are all very good questions, but that's application development.
trinque: dunno that you see or perhaps don't value the problem the web did solve
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> trinque: I don't see how this is a problem? << I am a librarian, a collector. I want to collect information without collecting a bunch of executable rat turds
trinque: seems to me you end up with another browser
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> trinque: well these are all very good questions, but that's application development. << NO, this is developing separate universes
gabriel_laddel: trinque: the whole lispm is a "browser" if you go that direction with words.
trinque: "you can do anything at zombocom" is not why the web blew up
trinque: it blew up because it was absurdly simple
gabriel_laddel: that browser (to me) means strictly JS+CSS+HTML
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267251 << moreover, if gpg messages were code rather than data i'd have gpg rewritten to a thing that keeps messages strictly as data. BingoBoingo exactly has it : there is no room nor need for every bit of text to be "really code". i want my nano to be UNABLE to do anything whatsoever with the text. which is why i use nano rather than emacs.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:51:28; punkman: gabriel_laddel: I get your point but also, this kinda sounds to me like "don't use math symbols, write it all with the full power of english"
mircea_popescu: if i want it to be able to do things with the text, then yes i want full ast bla bla.
BingoBoingo: Executable things can go in the Lispy read, sign, check signatures, and execute world. Documents need to be in the don't give a fuck read the derp and laugh universe
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: you're still missing the whole "bind *real-eval* to nil" part of the discussion
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> mircea_popescu: you're still missing the whole "bind *real-eval* to nil" part of the discussion << FUCK YOU IMMA DRAGON
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: the people who authored CL thought of your use case.
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> mircea_popescu: the people who authored CL thought of your use case. << AND yet you Hearnia around the details
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: I do?
trinque: ^ guy is just more interested in his lisp system than a particular app on it. I contend the mega-app on any computer now and in the future will be a hypertext system.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: The difference between what you do now and what Mike Hearn does is 2013 and 2015. Mike Hearn knew his mission was to destroy through evangalism. You may no that, you may not but that is still your net effect.
trinque: because that's what language always was
gabriel_laddel: I fucking write "apps" for it now, for money.
gabriel_laddel: it isnt' a big deal
gabriel_laddel: just do it
BingoBoingo: For a while I did girls for money, was a huge hassel, not worth it, because the girls were huge. Giggolo is a dead end.
trinque: lol
BingoBoingo: Seriously are we channeling Nike shoe slogans here, Just do it?
BingoBoingo: AND I am the one using ambiguous metaphores???
trinque: a safe hypertext system could easily be tossing sepxrs over the wire with *no* code, just piles of data
pete_dushenski: "[Damon] Wayans defended [Bill] Cosby. Among his comments: “I don’t believe he was raping. I think he was in relationships with all of them.” “If you listen to them talk, they go: ‘Well, the first time.’ The first time? Bitch, how many times did it happen?”
pete_dushenski: “Some of them, really, is un-rapeable. I look at them and go, ‘No, you don’t want that.'” “If it was my daughter, then I would have killed Bill Cosby. But sitting back looking at it, I think it’s a money hustle.”
trinque: various presentations for various kinds of data yes, one of them a link
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel re "bind *real-eval* to nil" meh. this works in the same sense "provable code" works. in academia.
mircea_popescu: you won't have a leakless pipe, ever.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: well by that token, the same stands for nano
mircea_popescu: nano isn't a pipe.
mircea_popescu: and if it is fouind behaving like a pipe it gets shot in the head.
mircea_popescu: whereas your thing is only maybe shot in the head if found leaking.
mircea_popescu: very different standards these.
gabriel_laddel: how many LoC is nano?
gabriel_laddel: vs. SBCL?
gabriel_laddel: SBCL is 400k
gabriel_laddel: or thereabouts
mircea_popescu: ;;google how many loc is nano
gribble: Microservices? What about Nanoservices? - InfoQ: <http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/05/nano-services>; Nanotron Technologies GmbH - Transceivers: <http://nanotron.com/EN/PR_ic_modules.php>; Máy lọc nước Nano, Nhập khẩu Nhật Bản 100% chính hãng ...: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkL5PSjMkdg>
mircea_popescu: heh. google is so useful seriously.
mircea_popescu: no wonder they stopped working on search to develop... what the fuck is it they do these days again ?
trinque: surveillance apparatus as far as I can tell
gabriel_laddel: self driving cars
trinque: o that
trinque: I count that under "ad company"
trinque: as in, google does self-driving cars and definitely not surveillance
trinque: though I guess that's getting them into the assassination gig
pete_dushenski: google mostly creates 'services' for 'free', undermines field, then mothballs and leaves a competitive void
trinque: gabriel_laddel: if I don't know you, I may still want to listen to you for a moment, to see what you're about
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00075661 = 8.6254 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: trinque: ?
trinque: why should I have to run a program *of yours* at all to get certain information from you?
gabriel_laddel: you shouldn't.
trinque: I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> how many LoC is nano? << a large portion is what those LOC do
gabriel_laddel: holy fuck, bind *read-eval* to nil
gabriel_laddel: then read in the string
gabriel_laddel: "Do I like this string, would I like more from the identity that produced it?"
gabriel_laddel: and airgap
gabriel_laddel: dunno what I'm missing here
BingoBoingo: <trinque> I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations << I grad school I was in serious discussions where we lamented fiber optic was not used for project film over hundreds of miles.
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> dunno what I'm missing here << All of the shit you want to hinge on this
gabriel_laddel will find nano LoC stats *after* I find the quote I am looking for.
BingoBoingo: Right now we plainly live on C machines.
trinque: anyhow, I have made myself sleepy. I think most here would be satisfied with a simple hypertext system to replace the JS monstrosity of today.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> anyhow, I have made myself sleepy. I think most here would be satisfied with a simple hypertext system to replace the JS monstrosity of today. << Gopher is beautiful
trinque: and that I can see is readily built on a proper lisp system
trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah I recall it
trinque: strict about the URL structure or w/e it was, isn't it?
trinque: has some concept of menu
trinque looks
BingoBoingo: Very strict
mircea_popescu: the lulz being that ubuntu gedit goes "do you want this file displayed or executed ?"
mircea_popescu: this should never be a possible question.
BingoBoingo: Seriously
mircea_popescu: and no, it's not ok to take the windows route and just execute everything.
BingoBoingo: I have not seen a graphical WWW browser other than Dillo that does not execute any documents.
mircea_popescu: and, of course, curl. that golden standard of all browsers
mircea_popescu: FOR THIS REASON
BingoBoingo: Links, lynx, and curl sure, but still how much ought these be trusted??? WIth their stinky libjpeg
mircea_popescu: neither displays jpegs anyway
gabriel_laddel: ^ quote I was looking for
mircea_popescu: ok this just beats all.
assbot: dpaste: 198EDMN ... ( http://bit.ly/1JS50ep )
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Links displays images, Lynx is the one that doesn't
trinque: lolol and a facebook link
mircea_popescu: "angela", stop being a derp, we need chinese speakers for better jobs than mashing hands on keyboards to produce email addresses.
mircea_popescu: saddest waste of a log reading ever i swear.
mircea_popescu: "Singyue star, china". you know, like "rome, wisconsin".
BingoBoingo: Prolly less Obesity at least
mircea_popescu: i'd expect.
BingoBoingo: Hard to get fat on plastic
pete_dushenski: i think the rice was paper now
trinque: gabriel_laddel: how do I refer to your CLOS object which represents a paper you have written? I would like to direct people to it from my CLOS object representing a blog post.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.0007479 = 21.4647 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: this the web has, and it is why it blew up.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Nah, Chicoms are mixing US corn with polymer to make rice now. Cheapest option
gabriel_laddel: trinque: you call a program to display my paper?
gabriel_laddel: sorry, are you asking what the UI should look like?
trinque: no.
gabriel_laddel: or do you want a spec for how the "dispatch" occurs?
BingoBoingo: How does the flow look like
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 17:43:24; fluffypony: damn the Chinese are getting desperate for profit: http://shanghaiist.com/2015/09/06/fake_paper_rice.php
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Ah, sorry. People make paper for cigarettes out of rice starch.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267299 << there is incidentally a very fine use for macros : where you're playing eulora.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:05:13; trinque: I've only so far written macros to deal with the hair of someone else's shit
mircea_popescu: which is directly that, hair on someone else's shit (aka game server)
mircea_popescu: except deliberately so.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: Right now I can press C-t m, pull up a "map" of all "research nodes" and "lessons" and right click to get a menu from which I can run the associated program.
trinque: yep, that's sort of how I see them; this interface is butts, I would like to pretend it is not
mircea_popescu: (ie, that's the point of a game in the general sense : to not let you solve problems the obvious way. (which in this context would just be skill++ or something equivalent))
trinque: gabriel_laddel: you will not have the whole internet on one machine!
trinque: what is the addressing mechanism for a world of clos objects?
gabriel_laddel: trinque: PGP identity with a list of programs to run.
trinque: I want to make reference to your information, not host it
trinque: no, not enough
gabriel_laddel: I don't see how you'll be able to reference things on WoTnet further than "the joe I know with this pub key"
gabriel_laddel: or "here are the sources"
assbot: The importance of backups, from the other side. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoWpGf )
mircea_popescu: that's reference enough
trinque: mircea_popescu: indeed! I don't think gabriel_laddel sees what hypertext is
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> I don't see how you'll be able to reference things on WoTnet further than "the joe I know with this pub key" << Publication. Paper and film only have the problem that they are slow and take too much volume for their information density. Why should machines not offer a path at least as safe.
mircea_popescu: tbh this extended hypertext thing i got on trilema kicks all imaginable butt
mircea_popescu: 50 times a day i go for it on random sites and they're too web 0.5 for it
trinque: yep, and I wanna poke someone's data set with something that specific
trinque: gabriel_laddel has a CLOS object which represents his number of slithey toves
trinque: and I want to make reference to that, not copy it
gabriel_laddel: trinque: you can only make a reference with 'respect to me'
gabriel_laddel: using whatever criteria you'd like
gabriel_laddel: nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577
trinque: no that sucks
trinque: www wins still.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: this is how URLs work already.
trinque: ah well elaborate then
trinque: define "with respect to me"
trinque: gabriel_laddel: so you have your own addressing scheme
trinque: www also worked because HTTP
trinque: not your particular way of addressing things per server
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I have a listing of programs associated with my PGP identity, you can make references to them, and people will be able to see them (or not) based on my trust relationship with them. Your "references" can be any arbitary computation, buut probably some standards will evolve (e.g., we don't check sexprs who pass some test of being a plist of the structure (:name ... :version ...)).
gabriel_laddel: where :name names the program, :version, the version
gabriel_laddel: it will evolve out of whatever the "networking" substrate ends up being and tbh, I don't see what the big deal is?
gabriel_laddel: none of this is hard to code - you hack around until something "clicks"
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> trinque: I have a listing of programs associated with my PGP identity, you can make references to them, and people will be able to see them (or not) based on my trust relationship with them... << It is essential for WoT to exist that I can safely point at the enemy's words and bury them in sulfur
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: yep.
gabriel_laddel: "I don't want to see people who cite XYZ"
gabriel_laddel: because morons.
BingoBoingo: But that means their publication MUST BE safe, crippled, non-executable characters
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: bind real eval to nil
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> "I don't want to see people who cite XYZ" << No who cites XYZ is how you make rope to hang
gabriel_laddel: whatever, the point is that the structure is available for me to make arbitrary computations against
gabriel_laddel: you can hang whoever
mircea_popescu: <gabriel_laddel> nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577 << win. srsly.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: fuck you and your intuition about things
trinque: this whole email thing is a turd
trinque: spamassassin raping my VPS
mircea_popescu: it is a shade better than just intuition :)
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> whatever, the point is that the structure is available for me to make arbitrary computations against << FYIAD, I don't need structure: I eat, hang, and burn
gabriel_laddel: ;; ud FYIAD
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FYIAD | Aug 26, 2007 ... Top Definition. FYIAD. Fuck You, I'm A Dragon Originated in some lame back-and -forth furry argument, but when you think about it, it's a good ...
assbot: Project Xanadu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoWQAi )
BingoBoingo: <trinque> spamassassin raping my VPS << I don't find email important enough to not outsource
gabriel_laddel: punkman: yeah, several people have dropped that link on me
punkman: required reading for anyone dabbling in hypertext
BingoBoingo: For the record this is the original and only meaningful spec for hypertext, predates LISP by two decades https://archive.is/ezrwO
assbot: As We May Think - Vannevar Bush - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1JS7kSD )
punkman: gabriel_laddel: yeah, don't be ted nelson :P
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: are you running Masamune in production?
ben_vulpes: "production"?
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: something like that
BingoBoingo: How can one even pretend to have a hypertext spec or its substitute without citing <em>Vannevar Bush</em>
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I did the project, they thought it had "too many options" so I'm cutting some out
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I should actually be cutting out options right now, but I'm instead drinking and browsing the net
ben_vulpes: how's masamune progressing?
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: slowly
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: you can use it iff you follow the guide
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: but goddamnit I need interns. I got maxima loaded into my master lisp proc over the weekend and I'm going to play around with that whenever I have free time.
ben_vulpes: ah nifty.
ben_vulpes: what does 'master lisp proc' mean in this context? the lisp image you run continuously?
gabriel_laddel: so I have CLIM etc
gabriel_laddel: for those of you who have not seen femlisp, MGL-MAT and MJR_CALC, the full nifty of this might not be readily apparent.
gabriel_laddel: all loaded in the same proc, all with access to BLAS, CUDA etc.
mircea_popescu: <gabriel_laddel> none of this is hard to code - you hack around until something "clicks" << this ftr is philosophically wrong. in that it reduces to the exact opposite of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-07-2015#1217312
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:39:10; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you to explain how you expect users to use your thing - nobody is going to go do the guesswork of "what the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else
trinque: BingoBoingo: I'm about ready to pull the plug on this server and give all smtp over to the enemy
mircea_popescu: esp the "no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else." part.
ben_vulpes: trinque: what's happening to your smtp holes?
BingoBoingo: trinque: Fastmail.fm isn't the shittiest. Can't really endorse any email provider, but they are the least condemned as far as I know.
trinque: ben_vulpes: cron job doing sa-learn on incoming spam is choking the box; while moving I have IRC up there instead of at home, proving... laggy
ben_vulpes: wait, what happened to tls cutting all of your spam to nil?
trinque: the turdatron
mircea_popescu: "femlisp" ? women in tech ?~!
BingoBoingo: "Professionally our methods of transmitting and reviewing the results of research are generations old and by now are totally inadequate for their purpose. If the aggregate time spent in writing scholarly works and in reading them could be evaluated, the ratio between these amounts of time might well be startling. Those who conscientiously attempt to keep abreast of current thought, even in restricted fields, by close and continuou
BingoBoingo: s reading might well shy away from an examination calculated to show how much of the previous month's efforts could be produced on call. Mendel's concept of the laws of genetics was lost to the world for a generation because his publication did not reach the few who were capable of grasping and extending it; and this sort of catastrophe is undoubtedly being repeated all about us, as truly significant attainments become lost in the
BingoBoingo: mass of the inconsequential." << Critical application of actual hypertext
trinque: I give up; google owns mail
BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah Opera/Fastmail beats the shit out of Google
ben_vulpes: herr mircea_popescu has as well, you're in good company
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes let it be noted that i had no problem witgh spam, in spuite of not using google.
trinque: so I run my own mailserver, and I get what
mircea_popescu: my problem is that middlemen are broken
ben_vulpes: what's your spamsolution, mircea_popescu?
trinque: I get a terrible hobby.
BingoBoingo: Especially relevant for gabriel_laddel: "Babbage, even with remarkably generous support for his time, could not produce his great arithmetical machine. His idea was sound enough, but construction and maintenance costs were then too heavy. Had a Pharaoh been given detailed and explicit designs of an automobile, and had he understood them completely, it would have taxed the resources of his kingdom to have fashioned the thousands of
BingoBoingo: parts for a single car, and that car would have broken down on the first trip to Giza."
mircea_popescu: my spamsolution is that all incoming from emails i never sent to is autodropped.
mircea_popescu: silentily.
mircea_popescu: works splendidly, too.
BingoBoingo: brb scouting pillage and jools
mircea_popescu: occasionally i fish through the mire, as a curiosity thing. but it's quite different
mircea_popescu: ie, the "bayesian" twerps have it all wrong. it's dumbass to try and protect an inbox with regexp, and especially their halfbaked regexp based ai
mircea_popescu: however, it's fun to fish in a swamp with regexp. when you feel so inclined.
ben_vulpes: youtube-dl?
ben_vulpes: because vlc is too hard?
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> youtube-dl? << Or save-as
punkman: ben_vulpes: same idea, does vlc support as many sources though?
punkman: save-as doesn't work
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267314 << for the record, ascribing purpose to phenomena is basically animism 2.0, and just as medieval as the other thing. for all you know gauss was not "a bit of a coward", and your p[rojection into the future whebn discussing einstein more indicative of an anachronistic mind than some sort of valuable intuition. for all you know gauss just didn't think the idiots arou
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:17:33; gabriel_laddel: "On the historical evidence I shall be short. Carl Friedrich Gauss, the Prince of Mathematicians but also somewhat of a coward, was certainly aware of the fate of Galileo —and could probably have predicted the calumniation of Einstein— when he decided to suppress his discovery of non-Euclidean geometry, thus leaving it to Bolyai and Lobatchewsky to receive the flak. It is probably more illuminati
mircea_popescu: nd him were worthy of being told about it. for all you know the notions of "progress and science" incumbent in the perspective you propose are so much masturbatory jizz, and in point of fact intelligent people share their thoughts exactly like a comedian shares his routine : to friends, in a social environment, for the same reasons in the same ways.
BingoBoingo: <punkman> ben_vulpes: same idea, does vlc support as many sources though? << VLC, Parole, pretty much eveything works
BingoBoingo: except x.265
mircea_popescu: "the prince of mathematicians" in-fucking-deed.
BingoBoingo: <punkman> save-as doesn't work << If it doesn't the problem is higher up your toolchain
assbot: FEMLISP Homepage ... ( http://bit.ly/1JS9WA3 )
mircea_popescu: i r disappoint.
punkman: BingoBoingo: ok, how do I save-as on vimeo?
mircea_popescu: "this femlisp privileges useful work and meaningful abstractions over other verbiage that is a lot more important to us"
mircea_popescu: ~luce irigaray.
mircea_popescu: punkman generally you need a decent video driver, something that does the equivalent of "print to file"
mircea_popescu: if you get it to run under x it's a lot easier.
punkman: I assumed "save-as" meant a button already in my browser
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63100 @ 0.00075033 = 47.3458 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: the only way such a thing will be published will be under a tmsr license. for obvious reasons.
punkman: the save-as button I have, does work in many occasions. but mostly doesn't
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: as for that quote, agreed - I should have quoted 3 paragraphs up.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: and wrt "hacking around until something clicks", this is the only way I know how to work on UIs and other 'finicky' programs? You certainly don't distribute this to friends who don't program.
gabriel_laddel: so, for example, the notion of references on a CLIMweb running on a WoTnet
mircea_popescu: i still manage to distribute trilema to people who don't program
mircea_popescu: note that im not saying this is a good idea. i'm entirely unconvinced at the moment. but still, fwiw, iwii.
gabriel_laddel: sure, but you rewrite sentences several times before you distribute.
mircea_popescu: that, i do not.
gabriel_laddel: oh right, I knew that
mircea_popescu: i would estimate less than 1% of trilema words were ever rewritten. it's pretty much first pass.
thestringpuller: i read an article that F. Scott Fitzgerald used to revise for years after his first draft...
mircea_popescu: flaubert is famous for having declaredly spent weeks trying to decide on a temperature value in cote de chez swann
mircea_popescu: iirc he settled oin 29 in the end
ben_vulpes: > femlisp
ben_vulpes: no stop i have to go do things to a girl
mircea_popescu is kind-of nonplussed nobody called him on the misattribution of proust's work. but anyway, twas "Bouvard et Pécuchet", and the dilemma was 30 or 34, and he settled on 30. you people need to read more literature.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: ftr, MJR_CALC compiles without any work on my part aside from
gabriel_laddel: (let* ((mjrcalc-path (qlpp "/lispy/")))
gabriel_laddel: (load (merge-pathnames mjrcalc-path "lib-meta.lisp"))
gabriel_laddel: (eval (read-from-string "(mjr_meta::mjr_meta_load-packages :BASE-PATH \"~/quicklisp/local-projects/lispy/\")"))
gabriel_laddel: (eval (read-from-string "(mjr_meta::mjr_meta_use-packages :BASE-PATH \"~/quicklisp/local-projects/lispy/\")")))
pete_dushenski goes to read more literature. gnite !
gabriel_laddel: Completing the above thought (CLIMweb) : there are two obvious categories of references, those that contain (backup) the reference and those that do not. Those that do not should be of one of two types - an identifier coupled with an identity, which you can use to lookup in the WoT you can "see" and "speculative" references, e.g., some arbitary computation.
gabriel_laddel: Now, I don't *know* exactly what particular sexpr will 'click' for my program, so I'll write a few versions, find something I like and then distribute it.
BingoBoingo: <punkman> I assumed "save-as" meant a button already in my browser << Of all things Chromium on OpenBSd has this along with most other browsers
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> (let* ((mjrcalc-path (qlpp "/lispy/")))... << How exactly to we trust this far before hardware?
BingoBoingo: Pretending to thing that do not yet exist is the definition of "terminal psychosis"
punkman: !up Vexual
Vexual: meta tiem
Vexual: notrlly
Vexual: !s trippy
assbot: 18 results for 'trippy' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=trippy
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Seriously read the Vannevar Bush paper. You are solving too many problems with too few tools. Classic circular saw/Hammer problem.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: "Let us project this trend ahead to a logical, if not inevitable, outcome. The camera hound of the future wears on his forehead a lump a little larger than a walnut. It takes pictures 3 millimeters square, later to be projected or enlarged, which after all involves only a factor of 10 beyond present practice. The lens is of universal focus, down to any distance accommodated by the unaided eye, simply because it is of short focal l
BingoBoingo: ength. There is a built-in photocell on the walnut such as we now have on at least one camera, which automatically adjusts exposure for a wide range of illumination. There is film in the walnut for a hundred exposures, and the spring for operating its shutter and shifting its film is wound once for all when the film clip is inserted. It produces its result in full color. It may well be stereoscopic, and record with two spaced glas
BingoBoingo: s eyes, for striking improvements in stereoscopic technique are just around the corner." << This was Vannevar's design
BingoBoingo: Laser printers etc. "Another process now in use is also slow, and more or less clumsy. For fifty years impregnated papers have been used which turn dark at every point where an electrical contact touches them, by reason of the chemical change thus produced in an iodine compound included in the paper. They have been used to make records, for a pointer moving across them can leave a trail behind. If the electrical potential on the p
BingoBoingo: ointer is varied as it moves, the line becomes light or dark in accordance with the potential." << Are we getting spooked yet?
BingoBoingo: OLEDs how do they work? "Use chemically treated film in place of the glowing screen, allow the apparatus to transmit one picture only rather than a succession, and a rapid camera for dry photography results."
BingoBoingo: Also actual computers, a rarity: "With machines for advanced analysis no such situation existed; for there was and is no extensive market; the users of advanced methods of manipulating data are a very small part of the population. There are, however, machines for solving differential equations—and functional and integral equations, for that matter. There are many special machines, such as the harmonic synthesizer which predicts
BingoBoingo: the tides. There will be many more, appearing certainly first in the hands of the scientist and in small numbers."
BingoBoingo: ;;google memex
gribble: Memex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memex>; Memex – DARPA's search engine for the Dark Web | Naked Security: <https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/02/16/memex-darpas-search-engine-for-the-dark-web/>; Memex In Action: Watch DARPA Artificial Intelligence Search For ...: <http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/04/10/darpa-memex-search- (1 more message)
BingoBoingo done spamming, brb sleep
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00074639 = 11.6064 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267355 << i must confess i am very much enamoured with the idea of a b-a web browser.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:29:01; punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.
mircea_popescu: making a SECURE browser would kick so much ass... and it is not actually THAT hard. not in the sense that it's not hard, but in the sense that we have an IMMENSE advantage over everyone else, from mozilla to who have you, in the "piss on the world and light it on fire" doctrine.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:30:29; trinque: BingoBoingo: I would much rather download someone's signed lisp program and run that locally than have this horrible half-creature that grabs code from everywhere, tries to "sandbox" it, and runs without so much as a gpg fart in the wind
Naphex: mircea_popescu: oh man browsers still can't render the same thing properly :o
mircea_popescu: they never will. the browser process as it exists is almost an exact mirror of the us "democracy" electroal process.
mircea_popescu: it will converge to sense. eventually. in the year 72015.
mircea_popescu: (in the year 72015 in the sense that it can be mathematially proven it won't happen before. but who knows, maybe after. patience little wanobi!)
Naphex: :D
Naphex: chrome runs it okay, but its filled with goog data plugs; got to spend 40mins just to do a "sane" config. Firefox somehow got stuck in 2010. And IE just gets stuck eats all memory and crashes with OOM
Naphex: the typical stuff when doing "webapps"
mircea_popescu: maybe this is retarded, but, wouldn't you be better off adding a slight delay, converting to something like gifv on the fly and relying on html5 ?
Naphex: getting everything rendered server-side would probably help
Naphex: but not worth it at all
Naphex: use plain html5, render stuff on the fly
mircea_popescu is clueless re web video etc.
Naphex: it's pretty meh, video is solved with flash and rtmp. the other interface "eye-candy" and functionality is what bogs most of it down
Naphex: web video as in the new mp4 and webrtc is pretty much useless for low-latency video streaming
punkman: flash doesn't belong in sane browser though
Naphex: punkman: it doesn't but it's a bussiness pick
Naphex: RTMP has a lot of hardware support[switchers, video compositing, streaming tools, relays;etc] and most video producers just use that
Naphex: now adobe has some sort of patent on RTMP
Naphex: so most browsers implement webrtc; you have to rely on 3rd party video players(like vlc) or flash to decode and render the content
Naphex: you could also try HLS from apple for some decent compatibilty and just delivering mp4 parts by HTTP
Naphex: but it's a straight up 2s->5s delay for everything
Naphex: which users absolutely hate in the context of live video chat
Naphex: a shitfuckstack
assbot: Reggie Watts - Fuck Shit Stack - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1UGlbR5 )
Naphex: punkman: exactly :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18298 @ 0.0007484 = 13.6942 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23612 @ 0.00075251 = 17.7683 BTC [+]
shinohai: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 239.06, Best ask: 239.1, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 239.06, 24 hour volume: 14672.0436584, 24 hour low: 239.23, 24 hour high: 246.52, 24 hour vwap: None
shinohai: http://thenextweb.com/us/2015/09/09/john-mcafee-might-run-for-president/ <<< Wait until he gets pilled up on Xanax again and starts firing missiles at Belize.
assbot: John McAfee might run for president ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOcS4a )
Naphex: shinohai: belize is so screwed :))
mircea_popescu: we should xt mcafee
mircea_popescu: more cheaper missiles.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.0007484 = 10.5524 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267211 << there is unlikely more than a GB or two worth preserving, period.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:59; gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:11; pete_dushenski: though i have to say, asciilifeform, for a starved man, you think mighty clearly.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 02:31:21; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of this, does kakobrekla's magical car still run ?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: neato
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267236 << the path to fits-in-head STRICTLY depends on every particular thing on the machine being implemented ONCE. this includes lexer, parser, related items.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:45:27; punkman: and what's wrong with notation/dsl/mini-languages?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267274 << gabriel_laddel: you are speaking mostly to folks who haven't grasped lisp. sorta like showing a modern army base to medieval commander - he will not be able to see past it being 'a terrible castle, where the fuck are the walls and moats'
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:57:07; gabriel_laddel: because you can always "open up" any "structure" and are guaranteed to get more of the same i.e., lisp, i.e., sexprs
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:04:15; trinque: BingoBoingo: I would say mr gabriel_laddel has it, that all syntaxes can be done within the lisp system, and simultaneously you find that the vast majority aren't necessary
asciilifeform: most of the 'small languages' on a unix box are 'glue'. you don't need glue on a sane computer.
asciilifeform: just as properly made furniture does not contain glue.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267350 << mega-l0l! can't wait for arbitrarily more of this!
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:27:16; pete_dushenski: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/08/a-white-guy-named-michael-couldnt-get-his-poem-published-then-he-became-yi-fen-chou/ << "Hudson’s critics said the literary bait-and-switch was fraudulent, racist and fundamentally different from Charlotte Bronte publishing “Jane Eyre” under the name Currer Bell."
shinohai: @ asciilifeform is your node back up and running? One I was connected to is down :/
asciilifeform: shinohai: zoolag is running
shinohai: ip ?
asciilifeform: same as before
asciilifeform: !s zoolag
assbot: 47 results for 'zoolag' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=zoolag
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267355 << what is 'sane browser' ? if it is simply 'loads text', then mircea_popescu has it, run 'curl' ! but noooooo, you wanna read new york birdcage liner, aha ? then you're stuck with the shit soup, sorry.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:29:01; punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.
shinohai: So close to full sync
kakobrekla: btw iirc today is tx spam day ?
asciilifeform: a good bit of the 'modern' www has dynamically loaded text, even, just as a pill against folks using lynx etc
kakobrekla: or tomorrow
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if it's today, the spamatron must be clogged
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'cause i'm not seeing it.
kakobrekla: let see
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267483 << mircea_popescu: actually this is an order of magnitude tighter guarantee than ANYTHING pertaining to 'nano' or other c crapolade presently in use on your machine.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:53:02; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel re "bind *real-eval* to nil" meh. this works in the same sense "provable code" works. in academia.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267484 << this is an uncommonly poor analogy, considering that even the humble world of physical pipes is full of pipes which do not leak. trivially, e.g., a rifle barrel
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:53:08; mircea_popescu: you won't have a leakless pipe, ever.
asciilifeform: yes, bury it in the forest for 80 years and perhaps it will leak.
asciilifeform: but engineering is fundamentally about ~known~ constraints. and this can be achieved in, e.g., cpu design, and the whole motherfucking system, there is no magic here. microshit's greatest crime is teaching three generations of people that it ~is~ somehow magic, and unachievable. this is a crock of shit.
asciilifeform: even ~actual~ cosmic rays can be dealt with. we know how.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267505 << like a dung beetle, google does not devour anything valuable to you and i. the only possible exception might be the usenet archive
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:56:14; pete_dushenski: google mostly creates 'services' for 'free', undermines field, then mothballs and leaves a competitive void
asciilifeform: but in the case of the latter ('dejanews') there never WAS any competition
asciilifeform: they purchased and rebranded THE monopoly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48836 @ 0.00074457 = 36.3618 BTC [-] {6}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267519 << the great inventor wheatstone wanted to build a telephone grid! but, of course, using vibrating piano wire. how else.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:58:00; BingoBoingo: <trinque> I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations << I grad school I was in serious discussions where we lamented fiber optic was not used for project film over hundreds of miles.
asciilifeform: iirc he was the first man to conceive the words 'telephone' and 'microphone'
asciilifeform: (and a thousand other now-ubiquitous concepts)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267551 << for what, exactly ? and did the asteroid hit, or what, is there a shortage of cn speakers now?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:09:10; mircea_popescu: "angela", stop being a derp, we need chinese speakers for better jobs than mashing hands on keyboards to produce email addresses.
shinohai: Zoolag: trying connection 195.211.154.159:8333 lastseen=-372722.3hrs lasttry=-400500.1hrs
shinohai: connect() failed after select(): Connection refused
asciilifeform: shinohai: that ain't zoolag
shinohai: My bad.
shinohai: I changed the ip in my alias, dunno why it is still connecting there
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267570 << this kind of 'macro' has precisely as much to do with lisp macros as microshit excel macros do. which is to say, NOTHING AT ALL. they are as closely related as cat is to chair - both have four legs, that's it
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:13:43; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267299 << there is incidentally a very fine use for macros : where you're playing eulora.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:26:09; mircea_popescu: <gabriel_laddel> nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577 << win. srsly.
asciilifeform: count libc !!!
asciilifeform: btw, 'nano' is titanically bloated - see, http://www.nano-editor.org/dist/v2.2/faq.html#3.6
assbot: The GNU nano editor FAQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Npr2LL )
asciilifeform: and ftr i fucking HATE nano. it SHITS SPURIOUS LINEFEEDS into pasted text !!
asciilifeform: if i want a line feed, i will PRESS THE FUCKING HUGE KEY ON MY KBD WITH THE ARROW ON IT
asciilifeform: http://www.nano-editor.org/dist/v2.2/BUGS << list of selected cockroaches removed from the kitchen.
asciilifeform: which must be oh-so-clean for their removal, aha.
asciilifeform: items like 'nano' is precisely how the unix crud remained dominant among thinking people for as long as it did. it has a clean coat on the outside, and presents the illusion of hygiene, for so long as you do not care to look inside. in EXACTLY the same way as a coffin hides the decay of a corpse.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00074276 = 4.9765 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 23:00:38; ascii_field: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/diffutils.git/tree/src/dir.c
asciilifeform: try and sit down and read that.
asciilifeform: without barfing.
asciilifeform: and it doesn't even have user-interaction, like text editor !
asciilifeform: 'nano' is NOT 'clean'.
asciilifeform: which is why there is not the option of living on a farm in the countryside. you ARE in a city, and the choice is between mexico city and tokyo. i'll take tokyo^H^H^H^Hemacs tyvm.
asciilifeform: (but if you ~really~ like the farm, try 'ed'...)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267652 << do you ever, when driving car, think 'i need to harness more horses to this' ?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:35:19; gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: but goddamnit I need interns. I got maxima loaded into my master lisp proc over the weekend and I'm going to play around with that whenever I have free time.
asciilifeform: if your project demands human compilers, your project is retarded.
asciilifeform: no exceptions.
asciilifeform: programming a computer is not building pyramid, there is no legitimate role for brute muscle.
asciilifeform: making use of brutes, in whatever capacity, is how we ended up buried in the pile of shit in which we sit.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267674 << the way this works is that google silently drops messages not coming from 1) itself 2) 'blessed' usg-megacorp entities
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:41:27; BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah Opera/Fastmail beats the shit out of Google
asciilifeform: see also the jwz thread.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267676 << knuth also has no problem with spam. and for approximately the same reason.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:41:47; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes let it be noted that i had no problem witgh spam, in spuite of not using google.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:43:01; mircea_popescu: my spamsolution is that all incoming from emails i never sent to is autodropped.
assbot: Logged on 08-09-2015 22:01:26; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2015#1266458 << the principal way through which the usg world of chimps succeeds is by getting the intelligent people to withdraw rather than kill them.\
asciilifeform: this is not a win.
shinohai: Ironically I have zero problem with Spam on my email provider. Trilema hates it though.
asciilifeform: shinohai: i run a mailserver, of approximately the same kind as mircea_popescu, but when i need to communicate with 'civilians' i end up forced to use gmail.
asciilifeform: or NOTHING GETS THROUGH
kakobrekla: yea, the sadness.
asciilifeform: everyone uses 'half-baked, bug-ridden implementation' of wot. even idiots. the idiot version of wot for email is, roughly, 'reject all messages not coming from u.s. fortune-500 corp domains.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10914 @ 0.00074276 = 8.1065 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:42:51; BingoBoingo: Especially relevant for gabriel_laddel: "Babbage, even with remarkably generous support for his time, could not produce his great arithmetical machine. His idea was sound enough, but construction and maintenance costs were then too heavy. Had a Pharaoh been given detailed and explicit designs of an automobile, and had he understood them completely, it would have taxed the resources of his kingdom to hav
assbot: Logged on 26-11-2014 00:46:13; asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267699 << this is an excellent point, and the standard narrative of 'progress, science' is very much reminiscent of the old claptrap re: 'building communism together!!11!!!11'
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:49:05; mircea_popescu: nd him were worthy of being told about it. for all you know the notions of "progress and science" incumbent in the perspective you propose are so much masturbatory jizz, and in point of fact intelligent people share their thoughts exactly like a comedian shares his routine : to friends, in a social environment, for the same reasons in the same ways.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 23:12:13; asciilifeform: people who regularly have ideas usually have fat notebooks full of strange
asciilifeform: re: gauss & co.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267767 << this is a CATASTROPHICALLY bad idea, because any attempt is simply asking for self-delusionary masamunification (sorry gabriel_laddel, but you know precisely what i mean.) -- this being, 'aha this is a turd, but WE made it and therefore doesn't stink and is somehow edible'
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 08:40:07; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267355 << i must confess i am very much enamoured with the idea of a b-a web browser.
asciilifeform: let's work it out
asciilifeform: a) don't need graphics? use lynx. or curl, even. EXISTS.
asciilifeform: b) want graphics. WE DON'T HAVE A SANE GRAPHICS STACK
asciilifeform: ergo there is nothing to do re: browsers at this time.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267769 << in what way is this hypothetical item distinct from 'lynx' ?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 08:40:53; mircea_popescu: making a SECURE browser would kick so much ass... and it is not actually THAT hard. not in the sense that it's not hard, but in the sense that we have an IMMENSE advantage over everyone else, from mozilla to who have you, in the "piss on the world and light it on fire" doctrine.
asciilifeform: lynx is right there. go, use.
asciilifeform: there is also the other side of the problem, which is that WWW ITSELF is fundamentally retarded.
asciilifeform: and this seeps into browsers, and not - as commonly supposed - only the reverse.
assbot: We Have Chosen Shame and Will Get War ... ( http://bit.ly/1UGQLOP )
asciilifeform: and i fucking hate the word 'secure'
asciilifeform: eliminate buffer overflows, use-after-free, type mismatch, by SHOOTING MOTHERFUCKING C MACHINE IN THE HEAD and the whole concept sorta goes away
asciilifeform: the whole mentality of 'secure' is EXACTLY the miasma theory of disease transmission
asciilifeform: exactly it.
asciilifeform: vaguely factual, yes, but fundamentally and disastrously misattributes causation
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267531 << 'would you like to eat this cake or inject it'
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:02:15; mircea_popescu: the lulz being that ubuntu gedit goes "do you want this file displayed or executed ?"
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 please consider updating therealbitcoin www to include the actually usable version thereof ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267211 << there is unlikely more than a GB or two worth preserving, period. << eh, geddoutofhere.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:59; gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.
asciilifeform: punkman: text compresses well.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267539 << again with the miasma theory. ~yes~ the swamp sucks to live in. yes, you get malaria and die. but it is not because of the swamp gas.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:04:07; BingoBoingo: Links, lynx, and curl sure, but still how much ought these be trusted??? WIth their stinky libjpeg
asciilifeform: hygiene does not consist merely in the ritualistic and unthinking avoidance of things that stink. though it begins there.
asciilifeform: but if you want to have, e.g., an operating room, it is important that it does not ~end~ there.
asciilifeform: need grasp of the ACTUAL mechanism of contagion.
asciilifeform: voodoo with a minus sign in front of it is STILL VOODOO.
punkman: what is 'sane browser' ? << must render HTML+CSS, with pictures. I don't need webfonts/flash/silverlight/java/webgl. A scripting language that doesn't suck would be nice, so I can perhaps write some userscripts for certain websites. Small amounts of signed javascript might be okay.
asciilifeform: punkman: must render HTML+CSS, with pictures << if you think this results in a proggy that views 'modern www' usably, go and try, e.g., 'dillo' or 'arachne' - the result is disappointing.
asciilifeform: because www as we have it is ~intrinsically~ retarded.
punkman: asciilifeform: I run noscript, a lot of it works.
asciilifeform: if you try to implement 'sane subset' (and which would that be?) you end up able to view sites that work fine in lynx anyway - and not much else
asciilifeform: even something as mundane as 'show pictures' is VASTLY nontrivial from the sanity perspective
asciilifeform: e.g., should it display jpegs ?
asciilifeform: and what, we use libjpeg ? which one ?
asciilifeform: the spittoon ~is~ in one strand.
asciilifeform: can't 'i'll just take one sip'
davout: ;;later tell mircea_popescu sure, send me the details
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00075143 = 8.3409 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267191 << i see no such restriction in therealbitcoin...
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:13:30; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-09-2015#1263077 << continuing our series of "power rangers are retarded lol", today's installment : bitcoind's idea of "passwords" allows digita and lowercase characters. no symbols no uppercase. not only does this mean a bitcoind pw is half the strength of a normal pw, but (the actual likely purpose of this retardation) it makes it trivial to identify wallet pa
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:11:58; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano?
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266842 <-- thanks -- interesting to idiots like me who have trouble opening my eyes, in naming "the rise of the victim". other bits were cursory at best.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:46:13; pete_dushenski: http://righteousmind.com/where-microaggressions-really-come-from/ << A) A Culture of Honor in part 6 aptly describes the wot
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267171 << they are cheap because they were, almost from the day they came out, forbidden to u.s. schoolchildren on account of the qwerty keyboard
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:06:35; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Damn it, you got me looking at TI-92's nao
asciilifeform: (89 is essentially the same machine but sans keyboard)
asciilifeform had, at various times, 85, 86, 89, grey-89
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you like mc68k cpu, you will enjoy 89/92 series.
asciilifeform: programmable in asm, yes.
asciilifeform: (get a cheap chinese cable)
funkenstein_: "All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of the four “control dramas”: intimidators steal energy from others by threat. Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning. Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by acting reserved or withdrawing. And poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them."
funkenstein_: -- celestine prophecy
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:37:41; pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SzIXy-oFlU << if anything is microaggression, this is it. unambiguously directed yet so far from lethal it's laughable.
asciilifeform: anyone got a mirror ?
asciilifeform: 'youtube' is more or less a censor's wet dream. just about NOBODY ever mirrors these.
asciilifeform: only thing that ever gets mirrored is the beheadings, and even those not every time.
funkenstein_: ^
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267185 <-- I'm told the phrase is antiquated and mostly used in jest today. Perhaps interesting that the translation of "revolution" is more akin to "molting" than "spinning".
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:55:51; mircea_popescu: ;;google 镇压反革命
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:51:24; mircea_popescu: mats that's nice to have. i always puzzled over the incredibly poor security of mobile as a design decision
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2015 20:48:27; ascii_field: great sim heist << transparent nsa smokescreen. gsm uses toy crypto since day one (usg mandate) and has always been breakable with minimal effort.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6009 @ 0.00074734 = 4.4908 BTC [-]
assbot: A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: Let's talk about iMessage (again) ... ( http://bit.ly/1K9aipB )
punkman: even if phones had good crypto up to basestation, doesn't help that much
punkman: asciilifeform: anyone got a mirror ? << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25a5RRh6nXs
asciilifeform: ty punkman
kakobrekla: lolvid
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 13:43:29; punkman: even if phones had good crypto up to basestation, doesn't help that much
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:34:19; mircea_popescu: there is no enemy but the enemy.
kakobrekla: retarded
kakobrekla: it almost reminds me of monthy python, the vid.
asciilifeform: in usa, if you trip a thief or murderer who is running from police, he can sue and win
asciilifeform: (not only this, but the famous 'circular saw' case, recall)
kakobrekla: if a burglar breaks in my home, he can stay until years later judge decides he really shouldn't.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: in britain likewise. (famous gypsy case)
asciilifeform: but there, he can also evict you immediately
punkman: kakobrekla: are there lots of squatters in your parts?
kakobrekla: wouldnt say lots but i know of one such case happening at this very moment. only its even worse than described.
asciilifeform: what does 'worse' look like ?!
asciilifeform: burglar anally expands you daily, until years later possibly judge adjudicates that he shouldn't ?
funkenstein_: the problem appears to be that you asked the judge
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: in urban setting it is difficult to keep a sty of pigs to feed corpse to
kakobrekla: the thing is, the exploiter a supposed victim of the 1990 yugo breaking up and in has been given 'priority processing' & 'priority lawyer support' from state for free. Exploitee is a poor old woman with nothing.
asciilifeform: victim ?!
kakobrekla: yes, they call them selfs 'the deleted'
kakobrekla: a bunch of nogoodfornothings exploiting state.
asciilifeform: i mean, how does this work? they were in comparty and now have nothing to do ?
asciilifeform: in what consisted the victimization ?
kakobrekla: the story is they did not get their papers straitened out at the time slovenia parted yugo
kakobrekla: and they were 'deleted' for many years.
asciilifeform: ahahahahahahaha
kakobrekla: but its mostly croats living here
asciilifeform never had a ru passport, nor is entitled to one, for EXACTLY same reason. where does he sign up to be 'victim'
kakobrekla: that thought "fuck ill just go back to croatia later"
kakobrekla: only to figure out "i dont want to go back to croatia" later on.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform come here, sit in someones house, you are good for years.
kakobrekla: they literally call them selfs 'izbrisani'. you will prolly understand the word.
assbot: Downtown Austin vault of precious metals turns up mostly empty | www.mystatesman.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q0YS7t )
shinohai: Kinda like BTC, if you don't own private keys you don't own anything.
funkenstein_: shinohai, it begins
asciilifeform: except that gold requires a fortress. if you 'have' gold it isn't yours unless you also have nukes.
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, gold is best kept -away- from fortresses
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: see the canonical buried treasure thread.
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom
asciilifeform: not really a solution.
funkenstein_: related story, guy sees neighbor has dug many holes in his yard. what is going on?
funkenstein_: guy says: "can't find gold, i dig it up every year to check".
funkenstein_: "well then, why not just put some tinfoil in there?"
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816523 <-- and i am back here yet again lol
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 21:36:01; asciilifeform: if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time.
assbot: The Internet’s Most Malicious Domains | LIFARS ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpJKmy )
shinohai: The top 10 clean or ‘least-shady’ TLDs are: .gov and .mil LMAO
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00073928 = 2.4396 BTC [-]
funkenstein_: well if we work for the benefit of archaeologists, might as well throw them a bone once in a while :)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268026 << am i the only one getting a surreal usg flavour from eating this? it has a distinct feel of 'see, this is what you get for using something usg can't magic into existence to make you whole'
asciilifeform: the conflation of 'owning gold' and 'using xyz vault' is also reminiscent of the mtgox mediatronic idiocies
shinohai: Surely usg wants you to buy their minted gold.
asciilifeform: shinohai: aha. so long as you store it in a properly-search-and-confiscation-enabled container
asciilifeform: such as a u.s. bank box
asciilifeform: or your flat
shinohai: But God forbid you "destroy" it, i.e. melt to make your own bullion.
asciilifeform: you would have to be an idiot
asciilifeform: considering the markup
asciilifeform: (ask a circuit board house, where they get their au. is it the mint? l0l)
assbot: Executive Order 6102 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpKGaw )
asciilifeform: incidentally, gold was never entirely re-legalized in usa
asciilifeform: in the sense that contracts which specify payment in it, are still officially void
shinohai: Not like they can't or won't just make it legal/illegal on a whim at the stroke of a pen.
asciilifeform: shinohai: aha. though 'usg 2.0' thus far gets considerably better mileage with paper diddling rather than classical confiscation
asciilifeform: (the latter works best when there is ~something to take~)
asciilifeform: ~nobody but crackpots~ actually takes delivery, as per http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-08-2015#1240741
assbot: Logged on 17-08-2015 19:35:54; mircea_popescu: irl, settlement's a paperwoirk affair and actual delivery is much disconsidered. as a token of the fact that everyone involved would muchly want reality to match their representation to the degree of absolute identity. so they desconsider the later.
asciilifeform: ergo paper gold is not market-separable, as it is, from actual gold; and usg silently prints it
asciilifeform: cheaper, cleaner than hanging people upside-down and beating coins out of'em
shinohai: Paper just gives me the illusion of owning something I actually do not.
shinohai prefers assets I can really hold: https://i.imgur.com/nNedV3f.jpg
shinohai: https://redd.it/3k0sxc <<< too stupid to use bitcoin?
assbot: 20 BTC reward for bitaddress.org issue : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1UH8KVb )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46091 @ 0.0007469 = 34.4254 BTC [+]
shinohai: Who allows these people to reproduce?
assbot: PQCRYPTO ICT-645622 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oz7aTI )
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Botlove, botlulz, and playing wannabes like a flute. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/09/09/botlove-botlulz-and-playing-wannabes-like-a-flute/
shinohai: !up ascii_field
assbot: In Consideration of My Appointment to Secretary of Labor | The Big Picture ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkjwvI )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36163 @ 0.00074109 = 26.8 BTC [-] {4}
shinohai: !up analmaster
ascii_field: welcome analmaster !
analmaster: i have returned
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 15:05:32; punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COXJfBSU8AAhcP1.png:large
ben_vulpes: !up VariaVarietatis
ben_vulpes: what's the deal, VariaVarietatis?
ben_vulpes: did you successfully run your rotor?
shinohai: What is hilarious ascii_field is *their whole lives are just shattered* because they cannot monitor their snowflakes from a screen.
ascii_field: wai wut ?
VariaVarietatis: point me to how to test my rotor is working? It seems to be able to getblockinfo but not getbalance using bitcoin-cli can't seem to find anything in the logs, mostly due to not knowing that to search for.
shinohai: Are you prefixing with LC_ALL=C ?
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: yea and I put my local ip 127.0.0.1 and node 195.211.154.159
shinohai: and afaik rotor doesn't use bitcoin-cli
VariaVarietatis: so how do I use it?
shinohai: Same as the old days bitcoind getbalance, etc
assbot: How Ashley Madison Hid Its Fembot Con From Users and Investigators ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkm8JT )
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: like LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance 12R4kPeSK6i9427ctH15j2NcJ1ST1FT21C -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 ?
jurov: getinfo works?
shinohai: Just LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance is sufficient
VariaVarietatis: jurov: in the bitcoin-cli it does
shinohai: Unless you specified a different datadir
shinohai: I added an alias so I don't have to type all that every time but it works for me
shinohai: !up ascii_field
assbot: ClubOrlov: Dead Souls ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsEaR6 )
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: datadir? i'm running one copy connected then used another copy to run LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance 12R4kPeSK6i9427ctH15j2NcJ1ST1FT21C gives me 0.0 but checking on blockchain it shows me this account has 27 btc
shinohai: Is this an address you control ?
VariaVarietatis: no I found this one just to check to see if it works
VariaVarietatis: tried a few
VariaVarietatis: I should be using my real ip also right? not 127.0.0.1?
shinohai: Shouldn't you use "validateaddress" instead?
jurov: sooo...an scam-cheap "KingDian" SSD came today from shenzhen, i have proceeded to test it with "badblocks -b 4096 -w -t random"
shinohai: wait, that doesnt return balance info ...hrm
jurov: had an uneasy feeling, went to check its source code
jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block
assbot: dpaste: 09WZ24Y ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkntQX )
VariaVarietatis: last line is how im running it
shinohai: It is running fine, at least I see no issues.
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: what other commands can be used?
assbot: Original Bitcoin client/API calls list - Bitcoin Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1LknGDM )
assbot: Original Bitcoin client/API calls list - Bitcoin Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1LknGUi )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25793 @ 0.00074462 = 19.206 BTC [+]
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: http://dpaste.com/2E3V2J7 doesn't get transactions?
assbot: dpaste: 2E3V2J7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1UBGCrO )
VariaVarietatis: also getmineinfo gives me method not found.
shinohai: Are you fully synced yet?
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: how would I know?
shinohai: Oh lawd
thestringpuller: 21days 2hours for blockheight 318709 on this current node.
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: I looked in the logs for this info found nothing sorry also stuff on maillist is only about building not using.
shinohai: VariaVarietatis: use getinfo and look at your block height
VariaVarietatis: "blocks" : 165381 ?
punkman: jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block << it says this in the manual
VariaVarietatis: so gotta wait for it to get to 318709+?
shinohai: Yes you must wait for it to sync
shinohai: Make some tea, roll a doob, go bang a prostitute.
shinohai: Might take a while.
thestringpuller: lol roll a doob...white people...
VariaVarietatis: ok thanks for all the help.
punkman bought a bag of chinese usb flash sticks with write-protect switch for "one-time use" and such
VariaVarietatis: gonna watch my number go up
VariaVarietatis: punkman: where?
shinohai: !up VariaVarietatis
jurov: punkman: here teh manul only says "the word "random", which specifies that the block should be filled with a random bit pattern."
punkman: VariaVarietatis: you should be able to find them on your favourite chinese gadget website
VariaVarietatis: Never been to a chinese gadget site, where do you look for such a thing?
punkman: !s chinese gadget site
assbot: 0 results for 'chinese gadget site' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=chinese+gadget+site
punkman: ;;google chinese gadget site
gribble: DealeXtreme - Cool Gadgets at the Right Price - DX Free Shipping ...: <http://www.dx.com/>; China Wholesale Supplier - Online shopping for cheap electronics ...: <http://www.tinydeal.com/>; Electronics Gadgets - High Tech Gadgets - New Technology Gadgets: <https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/Electronic_Gadgets/>
assbot: MeDisk Password Protected Security USB 2.0 Flash Drive - Black + Silver (8GB) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkp8WP )
jurov: okay but i wanted something cheap and still performant enough to use with pogo
punkman: jurov: so does the cheap ssd work?
assbot: KingDian S400XT 2.5" SATA3 SMI2246XT Solid State Drive SSD - Black (60GB) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkpoVR )
jurov: so far yes
ascii_field: jurov: my experiments led me to the conclusion that usb (at least usb2) won't cut it, period.
ascii_field: on account of the high cpu overhead
jurov: going to rewrite it with aes-encrypted /dev/zero, will report
jurov: (urandom gives paltry 18MB/s, another annoyance of today)
ascii_field: these measurements can be deceptive re: pogo in particular, on account of the latter's sensitivity to cpu and especially bus starvation
punkman: jurov: what's the purpose of these tests?
jurov: punkman i got a crate of pogos, doing some research about matchin'them with cheap ssd's
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.0007443 = 11.4622 BTC [-] {3}
punkman: jurov, well yes, but what is "rewrite it with aes-encrypted /dev/zero" gonna tell you?
jurov: that it isn't such a scam as the price indicates and can probably bear the blockchain
jurov: after rewrite, there will be read and comapre the sum
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
jurov: badblocks test was inconsequential, cuz the drive could easily optimize it away
ascii_field: punkman: how else would you propose to verify that the drive can hold the X MB that vendor claimed it holds ?
punkman: ascii_field, I wouldn't think fake capacity numbers are a problem, but yeah I guess you gotta write $x GB of data to it that can't be compressed away
mircea_popescu: davout done meanwhiole but thx.
mircea_popescu: !up lifesfun
assbot: 2600 ACCUSED OF USING UNAUTHORIZED INK SPLOTCHES | 2600 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkt4Xy )
punkman: "It's indeed impressive that Trunk Archive managed to match these little ink splotches." << makes one wonder how much computing power is being wasted on this
assbot: Getty Images Acquires PicScout | PicScoutPicScout ... ( http://bit.ly/1LktUn7 )
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: 'You see, not only are they trying to get us to pay them for using a few ink splotches, but as it turns out, the ink splotches don't belong to them in the first place! Our cover artist happened to keep meticulous records (probably not something they anticipated) and traced the source of the ink splotches to a Finnish artist...'
ascii_field: intellektooal propertyh!!!1111
mircea_popescu: it IS copied, however.
punkman: funny how http://www.lcs.global/ http://www.trunkarchive.com/ http://www.picscout.com/ are all related but don't mention each other
assbot: LCS - License Compliance Services ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkutNO )
assbot: Trunk Archive - Home Page ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkuu4c )
assbot: Home - PicScoutPicScout ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkur8E )
ascii_field: 'I did some ink backgrounds for my upcoming artworks, and I thought I'd share the textures with the rest of the world. Free for non-commercial/commercial use. Feel free to post on your blogs etc. Crediting is not required, but would be nice.'
ascii_field: (from linked source)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58650 @ 0.000741 = 43.4597 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: such a great find shinohai
mircea_popescu: !rated shinohai
assbot: You rated user shinohai on 03-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..
shinohai: Thx. 2600 was like the first irc server I ever used.
shinohai: In other copyright news, the author of the song "Eye of the Tiger" is considering suing Kim Davis for using the song at her release from jail rally yesterday.
mircea_popescu: maybe puts her right back in jail
mircea_popescu: "improper celebration of release - 5 years"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @ 0.00073723 = 30.8899 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: Xyl2k/TSA-Travel-Sentry-master-keys · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkwQA2 )
mircea_popescu: well at least it doesn't have the word retard on it.
ascii_field: shinohai: as if it were difficult to make master keys based on disassembled lock.
ascii_field: (when said lock is designed for master)
mircea_popescu: so wait. carrying water not being difficult (when one is not obese) is somehow a detraction from plumbing ?
ascii_field: !s have to chew
assbot: 10 results for 'have to chew' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=have+to+chew
ascii_field: !s have to dip
assbot: 9 results for 'have to dip' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=have+to+dip
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00073709 = 14.9629 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu doesn't get it.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: ahh grep * how i love you.
deedbot-: [Trilema] Ars gratia artis sau cum era, or The function and the functioning of art part deux - http://trilema.com/2015/ars-gratia-artis-sau-cum-era-or-the-function-and-the-functioning-of-art-part-deux/
shinohai: Whatever you paid for that was worth every satoshi.
ascii_field: mega-pic
mircea_popescu: chick's talented.
shinohai: Luke-Jr. on a unicycle lolz
ascii_field: which one is szabo ?
ascii_field: fella in the robe ?
trinque: ah that's really good
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6915 @ 0.0007447 = 5.1496 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: lol szabo in robe
assbot: Archillect ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkzo14 )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267818 << for the record, a "modern military base" IS a horrible castle.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:41:49; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267274 << gabriel_laddel: you are speaking mostly to folks who haven't grasped lisp. sorta like showing a modern army base to medieval commander - he will not be able to see past it being 'a terrible castle, where the fuck are the walls and moats'
mircea_popescu: and it has proven this point in medieval places, such as iraq.
mircea_popescu: modern military still suffers of the problem of the panzer 80 years ago : can take any position and hold absolutely none.
ascii_field: and rifle is an absolutely terrible longbow, also
mircea_popescu: not so. there is no contest where people armed with rifles lose to people armed with bows.
mircea_popescu: there are NUMEROUS contests where people in modern bases lose to partisans.
mircea_popescu: in fact, the majority these days.
ascii_field: not clear that castle would have changed the outcome there
mircea_popescu: that is not an argument.
mircea_popescu: we're not discussing the merits of the castl.e here.
mircea_popescu: also note that medieval commander answered for permanence. whereas modern commander answers for "accomplishment". very different end goals drive very different behaviours.
mircea_popescu: for austin, "taking baghdad" once a week for three years straight would have been an excellent outcome : over one hundred allied victories!!11
ascii_field: american commander answers for... hell knows what? boots properly polished ?
jurov: so.. the ssd passed and the rotor will have something to rotate
mircea_popescu: try telling that to as-saffah tho, "i've lost baghdad once a week"
ascii_field: jurov: very spiffy. consider posting what part you used, how tested, where to buy...
jurov: posted above
mircea_popescu doesn't remember what it passed ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it was in today's log
jurov: !s kingdian
assbot: 2 results for 'kingdian' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=kingdian
mircea_popescu: im working on it kk
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:43:38; asciilifeform: just as properly made furniture does not contain glue.
mircea_popescu: but i don't think it detracts from the actual point.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: perhaps i ought to have said, 'contains very little glue'
shinohai: Thx jurov. On my list of items to purchase when I actually get a working pogo binary.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:50:01; kakobrekla: btw iirc today is tx spam day ?
jurov: shinohai: i'd recommend to use 120G version instead, 60G will be obsolete soon
mircea_popescu: you know how it goes.
assbot: Exclusive: Russian troops join combat in Syria - sources| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkAZEc )
BingoBoingo: But as a point, properly made furniture does in fact not include nails
trinque: and not far future
mircea_popescu: speaking of "will be obsolete soon" : we need that aribtrary checkpoint thing. if provided, node owner could store old chain apart.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo has it.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: remind me what this was
mircea_popescu: there are some fine examples from chinese era of overabundance when they used supertiny nails.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, nails ruin the wood.
BingoBoingo: Interlocking cuts, glue, and clamps are the way, the truth, and the light in furniture
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you know how the code nos supports "developer mandated" checkpoints ?
mircea_popescu: the idea was to make them user-enacted.
shinohai: K jurov. mats sent me sufficient btc to purchase a pogo, but I only got an inferior drive with it. Planned on getting something a little more robust
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:56:36; asciilifeform: yes, bury it in the forest for 80 years and perhaps it will leak.
mircea_popescu: you want to bury them in the ocean for 1k years.
jurov: even after checkpoints, it's nice to have for querying the history
shinohai: Better to have room for growth
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah but the idea being that you run many nodes with smaller disks for day to day ops
mircea_popescu: and have a airgapped system with the full history etc that's not exposed to the internet.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the 'checkpoint' thing is actually useless as implemented now, it merely skips verification for the listed blocks
ascii_field: -verifyall disables it entirely
ascii_field: and verifies ~all~
mircea_popescu: different tools for different jobs as it were. the corrosive substance of usg-ness makes anyth9ng on the public net vulnerable, and zerging the only possible approach to survival.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field yeah.
ascii_field: what we considered wanting was an entirely different kind of checkpoint
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267858 << who speaks chinese here ? fluently ? because as your point re google : chinese speaker in fucking china is about as useful or important as dung beetle.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:04:44; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267551 << for what, exactly ? and did the asteroid hit, or what, is there a shortage of cn speakers now?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field btw, i started a measuring, my node pulls ~600 blocks/hour
mircea_popescu: (you were complaining about delay)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 600 of which blocks
ascii_field: skinny early blox or fat modern ones
mircea_popescu: i didn't boither measuring early, who the fuck cares, but i would guess it did 10k an hour or some shit
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: iirc mats spoke cn
mircea_popescu: it'd have done(
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: incidentally, dulap is all backed up.
mircea_popescu: alrighty ima pull the plug then
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267816 << to continue this thread, my contention is that while many things I write with special notation could just as well be s-exprs, making me read and write these things as s-exprs is catastrophic
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:39:38; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267236 << the path to fits-in-head STRICTLY depends on every particular thing on the machine being implemented ONCE. this includes lexer, parser, related items.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not waiting for replacement ?
mircea_popescu: why ? you said useless neh ?
ascii_field: well it displays old results
ascii_field: but this is prolly not worth whatever mircea_popescu is paying for it
ascii_field: the demise of this box is unfortunate. i was gonna put an experimental version of www-ized 'v' explorer there, also
mircea_popescu: yeah well. unfortunate is what the world's made of.
ascii_field: and it was where 'bleeding edge' therealbitcoin lived.
mircea_popescu: obviously if people weren't schmucks we could have nice things.
mircea_popescu: but they are, and so we can't.
mircea_popescu: and we'll kill them, and they'll want to know why, "Que tes ennemis expirants"
mircea_popescu: and we probably won't bother to answer, and they'll derp more, in their children, and so it goes.
mircea_popescu: and has gone. for a long, long time now.
assbot: So far: | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCEK7 )
assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCF0n )
trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/09/us-ukraine-crisis-exclusive-idUSKCN0R924G20150909 << "The plan includes a site for studying the tactics of the U.S. Army, which was called a "likely enemy" in the document."
assbot: Exclusive: Russia building major military base near Ukrainian border| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCKRV )
assbot: ‘No Blacks’ Is Not a Sexual Preference. It’s Racism - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCMcx )
assbot: Slave for Blacks ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCO3U )
mircea_popescu: it's always great when two kinds of maculature meet.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: feel free to log in & zero the disk whenever.
mircea_popescu is not gonna bother
ascii_field: there is literally nothing secret on this box.
mircea_popescu: but anyway : "racism" is exactly the derp word for sexual preference. the reason some people don't like other people is purely sexual.
ascii_field: trinque: who else could be 'likely enemy' ?! martians ?!??
trinque: obviously I'm not surprised at that.
ascii_field: 'вероятный противник' (tm)
trinque: I eagerly await the overturning of the world, as it has been chewing the back of my mind a long while.
ascii_field: 'sergeant: private! why were you walking the street wearing the pants of the Likely Enemy ?!' ('80s ru army joke)
mircea_popescu: hahaha veroyatnij
mircea_popescu: "vraisemblable"
mircea_popescu: such french
ascii_field: ~= probable
mircea_popescu: with a sprinkle of credible / persuasiable.
mircea_popescu: "an undismissable argument may be brought that this will be so"
mircea_popescu: pointedly no judgement as to likeliness or future course of events is made
mircea_popescu: what the word describes is a purely intellectual situation, today.
mircea_popescu: sad that the anglos have no languages, or linguistics whatsoever.
trinque: but we made a new iPhone
mircea_popescu: ascii_field incidentally isn't it potrivnik ?
mircea_popescu: it's protivnik ?!
ascii_field: противник.
ascii_field: == opponent
mircea_popescu: nuts. romanian has the word, same meaning, but the r migrated.
mircea_popescu: is this a latin influence in russian, is тивник anything ?
jurov: slovak has exactly same word
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: consonants wander as you go west
ascii_field: look at the czechs
jurov: czechs too incidentally
mircea_popescu: the czechs consonants wandered because they munch too much cunmt
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: против == against
ascii_field: opposed.
mircea_popescu: anyway in ro it has an entire migrated family : deopotriva (of the same ilk), impotriva (against) etc
mircea_popescu: the cannonical rejection of misplaced familiarity being "nu suntem deopotriva" ie, we're not of the same social level.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller your article ever end up onb twitter ?
mircea_popescu: bah. i meant reddit lol
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 19:33:01; mircea_popescu: the cannonical rejection of misplaced familiarity being "nu suntem deopotriva" ie, we're not of the same social level.
mircea_popescu: or none.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: they have many more than 2 ты/вы addresses
mircea_popescu: i thought they just had san
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea. that too. actually got submitted by 3 separate people @_@
mircea_popescu: i saw it on my ipad from jobs-san
ascii_field: e.g., male-superior, female-superior, male-divine, female-divine, male-subordinate, female-subordinate, male-child, female-child, ..., prolly more
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller ahaha win. downvoted erry time ?
assbot: Japanese honorifics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkEoCT )
thestringpuller: https://www.reddit.com/domain/qntra.net/ << the first one was submitted during low traffic time. the other three have different titles.
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> Interlocking cuts, glue, and clamps are the way, the truth, and the light in furniture << aye aye
ben_vulpes: "joinery"
ben_vulpes: but when i want to build builtins in my rental, i use compressed air and nails.
trinque: http://www.rt.com/news/314787-russia-air-bases-csto/ << damn, USistan is weaker by the day.
assbot: Russia is ready to establish airbases in neighboring countries – Russian PM — RT News ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkEKtg )
trinque: I recall recently Putin calling for an international something against terrorism.
trinque: I wonder if that will develop into something specific against US-supported terrorism.
mircea_popescu: lmao if the romanians manage the performance of leasing some land to the russians right next to the land their leased the americans to make their military bases
mircea_popescu: it'd only be like the nth time historically lol.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: cuba, l0l
mircea_popescu: lightweights
mircea_popescu: ro's been doing it for like 1800 years
ascii_field: (iirc the ru lease in cuba lapsed when they couldn't make rent in '90s)
mircea_popescu: trinque anyway, the su's got that superb su, they gotta use it before the window closes in 5 -10years.
trinque: the plane?
mircea_popescu: (/me vaguely suspects that much like the french get the trophy for "last and therefore best supersonic air transport", the ru may get the trophy for "last and therefore best" fighter jet. i somehow doubt a better one's ever getting made, by anyone)
mircea_popescu: yes the plane.
ascii_field: not many folks remember today who made the best bombard, either.
mircea_popescu: not many folks remember today where their asshole is located. wut of it.
trinque: gonna be a sad thing when we try to field whichever f35s can fly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00074359 = 21.7128 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_field: trinque: why not simply throw trunks of benjies at the enemy, aha
ascii_field: (before window closes ! while they're worth something !)
mircea_popescu: hehehe ayup.
mircea_popescu wonders if bullet sized missiles will ever happen.
mircea_popescu: "why learn how to shoot ? fire our ICBM Pea at your enemies!"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: iirc lockheed was advertising this
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
ascii_field: doesn't mean quite same thing as 'happened' aha
trinque: there was some DoD wank about self-steering bullets
mircea_popescu: and MIT was adverttiosing "learn how to light lightbulbs and other wonders of 1800 science! TODAY!"
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2015 04:28:52; asciilifeform: in j. sladek's 'tik tok', sf novel in '83, in the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built
trinque thought the caspian sea monster and other ground-effect planes were this, but recently considered the value of massive transport across the caspian and black seas
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: self-steering projectile ~really~ wants to be a rocket, not only because guidance apparatus costs and so may as well include large warhead, but also because changing direction kills velocity if all you got is the acceleration in the barrel (classical bullet)
ascii_field: trinque: 'экраноплан' - but think of it as a very fast gunboat, rather than a plane
trinque: the largest one seemed capable of moving more than a few tanks
mircea_popescu: the hercules moves like a dozen planes, and actually flies.
mircea_popescu: if you just have it hover on water, you should be able to move a fucking tank plant.
trinque: bleh, gawker. but anyhow, there's the beast
mircea_popescu: that'd kick ass btw. "our fleet consists of this flagship that is a tank factory. it outputs tanks in continuous motion (60mph) 4 thick."
ascii_field: l0l 'warcraft' & co
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 60 * 1.6 * 4 * 200
gribble: 76800
mircea_popescu: 77k tanks an hour, not so bad.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field hey, i dunno if you ever played this, but there was a GREAT, an absoluterly fucking fantastic game in the pre-windows days
mircea_popescu: 3dmax or something. initialism like that. ace. something.
mircea_popescu: in a distopian future with a very gritty burnished steel look and feel about it, you built all sorts of tanks, helicopters etc,
mircea_popescu: to get the enemy base. did research for them too, gathered resources,
mircea_popescu: a sort of much better starwars before starwars
ascii_field: 'command & conquer' ?
mircea_popescu: M.A.X.: Mechanized Assault & Exploration
mircea_popescu: that game was so fucking great...
mircea_popescu: imo still unsurpassed.
ascii_field: imho even 1980s 'ranger' is unsurpassed still
mircea_popescu: those fucking pipes. you had to defend the pipes.
ascii_field: the one where you were a lone diversant sent behind enemy lines, and had to choose whether the weight of, e.g., extra demo charge is worth losing three frags or five pistol clips, etc
assbot: Who are these Russian fighters posting pics of themselves in Syria? - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkI1Je )
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i suppose this is what the obese have ruined in the world. scarcity.
assbot: Airborne ranger (1987) review for MS-DOS, Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkI8Ep )
ascii_field: i fucking loved this little thing
mircea_popescu: and com,mand and conquer fucking sucked.
mircea_popescu: generally speaking, real time anything is for idiots.
ascii_field: which is why i was a little surprised when thought it was mentioned
ascii_field: ^^ yes!
mircea_popescu: go twitch in a fucking jar on a shelf already.
ascii_field: 'real time' generally == 'arm wrestle'
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, if we make all messages 140 characters your advantages over us won't be so obvious"
ascii_field: procrustes called, wants sofa back
lobbes: generally speaking, real time anything is for idiots << heh, Eulora is real-time ;/
lobbes: but hence, the 'generally'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267901 << it's an epic fucking win. they can still READ.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:26:49; asciilifeform: this is not a win.
mircea_popescu: they do not need to talk back just because they walk.
mircea_popescu: lobbes how is it real time ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i suppose it is a win then that i cannot ask stoutemyer anything. after all, my only qualification is 'can walk', aha.
mircea_popescu: hey, if you like the stick like the lube too.
lobbes: mircea_popescu: if you are not playing you 'fall behind' the economy? though, that is the beauty of the 'encouraged bots' system
mircea_popescu: but i'd note that if there was a #derive-assets where i could get a half hour's window, this would be a non problem.
mircea_popescu: lobbes people assume this is the case but i have not observed it to be true.
lobbes: !up ascii_field
jurov: mircea_popescu: pls to mpex
mircea_popescu: jurov will do.
trinque: BingoBoingo: you approve of fastmail?
BingoBoingo: trinque: All email providers suck. I don't endorse fastmail, but I condemn it less than other options.
jurov: lobbes: just your skills rust. but low skills are useful,too
ascii_field: l0l derive-assets
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:35:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267767 << this is a CATASTROPHICALLY bad idea, because any attempt is simply asking for self-delusionary masamunification (sorry gabriel_laddel, but you know precisely what i mean.) -- this being, 'aha this is a turd, but WE made it and therefore doesn't stink and is somehow edible'
lobbes: jurov: yeah, it seems n00bs are valuable due to fact. very interesting indeed
trinque: BingoBoingo: certainly; e-mail itself sucks, and I'm ready to accept that it's as bad as using facebook messenger, and let someone else run spamassassin day and night
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:36:35; asciilifeform: b) want graphics. WE DON'T HAVE A SANE GRAPHICS STACK
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if you - or anybody else - can write something recognizable as this item, i promise to take off my hat
trinque: want to send me a real message? gpg-gram me
ascii_field: but the foundations aren't there.
trinque: I would use a text-only computer all day provided it had something of a net connection
trinque checks his workspaces for graphics, finds only text
mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, that's not the point. the point is that what, seriously, ima sit here and go "hey, this shit's pretty good" ?
mircea_popescu: when did that happen.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: imho you were falling into this very bear trap with the 'nano' thread
ascii_field: see log.
mircea_popescu: trinque i woke up last night to the fact that email only persists because we havewn't fully groked the importance and effects of b-a yet.
ascii_field: it is very easy to become convinced that the only available item doesn't suck
mircea_popescu: ascii_field a) i didn't make it!
mircea_popescu: wtf. i also use gpg.
mircea_popescu: what happened when deedbot didn't have a faq ?
ascii_field: alternatively
BingoBoingo: lol, the Hearnia mempool solution is randomly drop tx so that all spam has a home somewhere https://archive.is/NgRdK
assbot: Mempool size limiting — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkKcMP )
ascii_field: what happened when tmsr didn't have a foundry?
shinohai: LOL @ Hearnia
trinque: mircea_popescu: yes I think using "the logs" has a lot of fruit left to give
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: a) enemy reads the logs, mega-surprise aha b) this is roughly isomorphic to the old behaviour, 'crash when full'
mircea_popescu: trinque indeed!
shinohai: He never responded to my queries as to why he is too good to sign binaries he barfs out to the wider internet.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field their inability to observe isomorphism is one of their lulziest features.
ascii_field: c) it is necessary so hearn can bolt on tx blacklisting later
jurov: i remember we discussed when the patch went in
jurov: but can;t find it
mircea_popescu: (and a forced mistake, too. in odrder to avoid noticing the isomorphism between yourself and turd in the sun, you're stuck breaking the isomorphism recognizer)
mircea_popescu: shinohai the key to success is to not answer to negative people. he knows because altman said so.
mircea_popescu: "the xt is not a huge privacy hole because you can recompile it not to be. we're banking on thefact the fucktards in usg-zoo won'tanyway. we don't sign binaries but it could be done if needed except we're banking on idem"
mircea_popescu: very well oiled, the cattle machine.
mircea_popescu is looking forward to thew v-tron being misrepresented as "drm".
shinohai: Cattle machine indeed.
mircea_popescu: (it will be. and to THEIR detriment, because it's very much a poison pill for that entire industree)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: neh it'll be 'embraced' and extended
mircea_popescu: github already trying this but it won't work for very good reasons.
ascii_field: rewritten in ruby, claimed to have been in steady use at stanford since 1995, the whole orchestra.
ascii_field: like phuctor.
mircea_popescu: that dun work.
ascii_field: why not ?
mircea_popescu: ima tell you why.
shinohai pops popcorn
mircea_popescu: for the same rason disinfo agent is stuck discussing "quiantum hjardening" and "cpu arch based attacks". ie, he is NOT ALLOWED to give even a single inch. which terribly boxes him in.
ascii_field struggles to think of even one useful tool that doesn't have a retarded usgized variant - e.g., gpg
mircea_popescu: all the important bits we have are radioactive to them
mircea_popescu: which precludes effectual approach
ascii_field: could have supposed same thing about public key crypto
ascii_field: but it was absorbed quite readily
mircea_popescu: and yes this must stay so. which is why my comment re you must think little of me above.
mircea_popescu: it was not absorbed readily at all, for one thing.
ascii_field: surely mircea_popescu knows that usg (esp. .mil) makes heavy use of an internal tard pgp by microshit
ascii_field: yes, this exists
ascii_field: complete with magical cards
mircea_popescu: anyway, incorporated here by reference, the discussion where i showed you how holding bitcoin destroys nsa.
ascii_field: now this i recall
mircea_popescu: the same exact principle is to be employed throughout : either they ignore the bits which makes them uncompetitivew
mircea_popescu: or they use the bits which makes them us.
mircea_popescu: no third way.
ascii_field: iirc this was a theme in 'lord of the rings' aha
mircea_popescu: and so yes, b-a browser
ascii_field: my point was that b-a browser demands b-a machine
ascii_field: because spittoon ~is~ in one strand
ascii_field: because libjpeg, x11, et al, must die
mircea_popescu: maybe. i'm firmly in the camp of "let people try things"
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> my point was that b-a browser demands b-a machine << TI-92
trinque: I have a question regarding this. Would a device operating at the network boundary, parsing packets and only permitting some signed wad in, only signed wads out be valuable in any way?
ascii_field: trinque: i described this device in agonizing detail
mircea_popescu: trinque maybe.
ascii_field: some time during the original gossipd thread
mike_c: ben_vulpes: I'm used to doctests. how do i run your v unittests?
jurov: trinque: problem is it can be easily dosed
trinque: aha, and I discussed it with you before as well
ascii_field: trinque: imho it is the only correct way to make a network at all.
jurov: only recourse is for the enemy to not know exact endpoint
ascii_field: what we have today is roughly analogous to early spark gap radio
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and that's also what the msr license is all about, too.
mircea_popescu: jurov recourse is to have many of them.
ascii_field: where there was room for exactly one transmitter/receiver per continent
mircea_popescu: ddos only works a) briefly and b) on large targets.
mircea_popescu: it's a sort of laser.
ben_vulpes: mike_c: python -m unittest test_v
trinque: seems that if everything coming/going is parsed, verified, it drastically reduces the amount of remote exploitation possible
trinque: and that seems a far smaller target to build than a whole new arch
mike_c: kthx. maybe test_v.py should have if __init__==main unittest.main()? is that not standard?
ascii_field: mike_c: if you like
mike_c: i haven't used this module much. not sure what sop is.
mike_c: this module = unittest
ascii_field: mike_c: i'd prefer that someone were to add the desperately needed topological walker, rather than focusing on the little chipped paint bits, but that's just me
jurov: mircea_popescu: i don't see any big obstacle against ddosing 1000 targets with slow connections vs. targeting one
mircea_popescu: ascii_field dude let people do what they do.
mike_c: i'm just trying to run the tests for now :)
mircea_popescu: jurov is this an argument to ignorance ?
jurov: why ignorance?
mircea_popescu: "i don't see"
ben_vulpes: mike_c: nominally unittest does test discovery, i focused on making tests though.
mike_c: ah
ben_vulpes: it should run with python -m unittest from the same directory as v, but...
jurov: i'm trying to imagine this thing. if we are going to have 1000 nodes , they will necessarily be on misc home connections
ben_vulpes: this is a thing i do once per project and always forget how it's supposed to go.
ascii_field: trinque, jurov: if device which silently drops unsigned (or signed by unblessed) packets straight on the floor were mass-produced and inexpensive, ddos as a thing ends.
mircea_popescu: jurov it's unsound to proceed from that point by makin assumptions.
ben_vulpes: and then on top of that, every project i pick up has some arcane setup for running its tests, because...legacy.
ascii_field: or rather, doesn't end, but becomes a voluntary idiocy like running winblowz
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and so as alf would point out, "nothing hapepened"
mike_c: it's running now, and failing.
ben_vulpes: ya, one out of 16?
ben_vulpes: "always leave a failing test"
ascii_field: mike_c: what is
trinque: seems I could have whatever shitty computers I like behind such a device, and could be relatively certain that no command and control messages are making it in
mike_c: yeah, 1
trinque: provided the device *works* obviously
mircea_popescu: jurov consider the experimentally verified, and publicly at that, fact that ddos couldn't do any appreciabvle harm to qntra, or trilema.
ben_vulpes: mike_c: that is the test i left off at. feel free to replace the "gotcha" assertion with an actual test, or just eliminate the assertion completely.
mircea_popescu: and this without any sort of imperial investments, either. also quite deliberately, and at least in part for the reason of this discussion.
jurov: and they examine each packet signature?
mike_c: got it
jurov is confused
mircea_popescu: wait, you wanted cpu-based ddos ?
mircea_popescu: because cpus are so much better than pipes these days, a dirty little secret the us telcos have managed to hide from their market like they managed to hide the fact that NOBODY CHARGES FOR INCOMING CALLS!!11,
mircea_popescu: most ddos is pipe exhaustion not cpu exhaustion.
ascii_field: ^ someone did not know this ?!
mircea_popescu: everyone all the time.
jurov is now more confused
jurov: the discussion is about per-packet signature verification
jurov: which none named does
jurov: and thus can shrug any ddos
jurov: amiright?
mircea_popescu: when you say ddos people are going to assume you mean, you know, as it is.
ascii_field: jurov: aha. see the old gossipd thread.
mike_c: and if i alter one of the public keys more tests fail, so that's good.
mircea_popescu: ie, you put the filter node up, yet it can't be accessed because syn flood. irrespective of its function.
ascii_field: jurov: basic principle, at least in my variant of its statement, was that an unknown endpoint is to be listened to STRICTLY for as long as it takes to establish that it can sign with a key that you wot.
ascii_field: AND that this can take place at line speed.
mircea_popescu: iirc that was left as a maybe.
mircea_popescu: (the 2nd clause)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i can show rigorously that it can be. but requires custom si.
ascii_field: also it will of course depend on the line. but you can mux/demux the bits, recall.
trinque: what if it didn't verify the sig; it just verified that it looks like a sig, and hands off to something that can
ascii_field: trinque: mno
ascii_field: trinque: that does nothing.
ascii_field: simply means that the enemy needs to spend three minutes adjusting his shit cannon
trinque doesn't expect fabs on the battlefield, trying to consider what the simplest useful piece of hardware might be
ascii_field: the thing to understand is that 'hardware gosspid' nodes would form an impenetrable skin around a p2p sane internet.
trinque: I understand that very well.
trinque: was imagining a network device connected in three directions, outside world, sig checker, and inside world
deedbot-: [Qntra] MIT Sacrifices Rag in XTCoin Push - http://qntra.net/2015/09/mit-sacrifices-rag-in-xtcoin-push/
trinque: but perhaps yes, sig checker without dedicated sig-checking hardware is too slow?
ascii_field: trinque: sig checker ~must~ operate at line speed, and in practice this means it is integral to the die which actually throws the packets around.
mike_c: hm, v.py is leaking file descriptors all over the place. muy messy :)
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
jurov: yes that's what i had in mind. nothing stops anyone from producing arbitrary number of "almost signed" packets
ascii_field: almost pregnant.
trinque: *garbage arranged to look like a sig to a dumb parser
ascii_field: a valid packet is necessarily 1) rsa'd to the node's ephem-key 2) signed by originator's ephem-key
ascii_field: all else - insta-shitcan.
mike_c: ascii_field: what's the plan here? you want updates signed/posted on the mailing list? we going to use v to manage changes to v?
ascii_field: mike_c: i confess that my intent was to have folks rewrite it
ascii_field: mainly to demonstrate that everyone groks
ascii_field: and that there would exist several incarnations, which do not ever disagree on answers
mike_c: hmm.
ascii_field: just as modern pocket calculators generally agree on arithmetic.
ben_vulpes is struck by a lightningbolt of understanding
mike_c: whelp, the foundation might as well have an implementation
ascii_field: 'v' is far too necessary to remain a me-thing (much less a python-thing or pc-thing)
ascii_field: it has to EXIST
ben_vulpes: okay, i get it now stan.
ascii_field: the way calculator does.
mike_c: ben_vulpes: you want me to post a full tarball or diffs to mailing list?
trinque: every soldier may assemble his rifle
trinque: I dunno about the tactical sense in every soldier creating his own
trinque: network edge device same, so on
ben_vulpes: mike_c: i posted a tarball, as i did some messy surgery and expected brutal diffs. if you can get cleaner diffs, that'd be great.
trinque expects he has 5 years of semi-stable country at best
mike_c: ok. i'm working from your tarball. I'll see what the diffs end up looking like
ascii_field: my initial 'v' presses rel1 and the bleeding-edge rel2, yes, but it ought to be regarded as a proof-of-concept
ascii_field: rather than foundation for eternal thing
ben_vulpes: mike_c: asciilifeform objected to the "which method, which args" approach to routing around argparse's braindamage, so if you have good ideas down there throw 'em out
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: in principle i object to repetition in a proggy
ben_vulpes: (as in to #b-a)
ascii_field: as in, why the fuck do i have to change something in 3 separate places when adding a knob
ascii_field: ought to be ONE
ascii_field: (currently, notice, two)
ben_vulpes: because the way that argparse suggests you set up function calls is stupid as hell!
trinque: so make a lisp data structure and then derive your argparsing code from... oh wait
trinque: ehehe
ascii_field: i will borrow a page from mircea_popescu and say 'i don't give a fuck HOW' it is done
ben_vulpes: shaddup trinque
ascii_field: so long as it is not RETARDED
ben_vulpes: you're not wrong, i just hate the straightjacket of argparse's function call behavior.
ascii_field: i despise the whole language
ascii_field: but all the unix scripting langs are quite alike
mike_c: the two places being the argparse and the switch statement at the end?
ascii_field: mike_c: that's ben_vulpes's version, not mine
mike_c: got it
ascii_field: i am also counting the function itself
ascii_field: so he has 3 places.
mike_c: so many globals :) ok, I'll definitely take a swing at reorganizing a bit
mike_c: and it will be very nice to have a test suite while doing so. so thanks ben_vulpes.
ben_vulpes: mike_c: and that's after i burned out like 70% of them!
ascii_field: imho this is misguided.
ascii_field: this is not a proggy to be 'libraryized' and dijkstraized
mike_c: so don't do it in your implementation
ascii_field: aha, i didn't. specifically in the interest of keeping it short and destroying redundancy
mike_c: I love how small it is.
ben_vulpes: dijkstraized?
mike_c: of course, that is partially because of the hairball that is gnupg..
mike_c: why not make it libraryized? if gpg was libraryized shit like this wouldn't be so hard
punkman: ascii_field: mike_c: i'd prefer that someone were to add the desperately needed topological walker, rather than focusing on the little chipped paint bits, but that's just me << what would this walker do?
mike_c: toposort a pile of patches with antescedants and descedants
punkman: we have that
ascii_field: punkman: handle broken and orphaned chains
ascii_field: to see what i mean, try adding a patch that depends on a rel1 terminus but is not built on by anything else.
ascii_field: it will destroy the entire thing
ascii_field: because 'press' assumes that ~all~ patches are part of longest chain somewhere.
ascii_field: the other much needed bit, imho,
ascii_field: is a graphatron that doesn't suck
ascii_field: which is to say, it needs to produce 1) ascii art, wit
ascii_field: 2) clickable boxes
ascii_field: (simple html)
ascii_field: these would expand to actual (colourized) diffs which the patch in question concerned.
ascii_field: the ONLY lib i found so far that does something like what is needed is a perl turd, http://bloodgate.com/perl/graph/manual/overview.html
assbot: Graph::Easy - Manual - Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1ixLqgQ )
ascii_field: i do not regard it as usable
ascii_field: but the basic principle is illustrated.
ben_vulpes: !up ascii_field
trinque: ascii_field: just to wrap up the thought, this network device is simply (and exactly) a packet filter that accepts packets through one orifice, checks signatures (presumably has a slot somewhere in its head for pubkeys) and farts them inward via second orifice or drops on the floor
ascii_field: trinque: at its bare essence - yes.
ascii_field: hardware gossipd, if you like.
assbot: All of the Nopes: "There is no such thing as the crime of 'rape'" and that's arguably not the worst part : againstmensrights ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmXd7o )
ascii_field: trinque: the 'adult' version would also emit packets. but this is far less essential to 'hardwareize'
ascii_field: given as the overwhelming brunt of the load is on crud rejection
trinque: yep, makes sense
ascii_field: but no, it does not make any sense to consider any of this without si fab
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8600 @ 0.00073983 = 6.3625 BTC [-]
trinque: well I'll consider it, but for my education
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43900 @ 0.00073757 = 32.3793 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: I see two separate problems
trinque: parsing packets in/out according to some grammar
trinque: and then the sig checking
ascii_field: the sig check is what needs the custom si
mircea_popescu: https://s.zkcdn.net/Advertisers/a2d4e53fd3cf46ceb02ef9b7289225e6.jpg << kinda funny how the cheap catholic doodaad image of jesus from the 1915s is still kicking around
trinque: I can think of many applications on the net I'd like to demand only ever say things according to grammar G
ascii_field: trinque: that part is trivial.
trinque: is not, computer isn't trustworthy
ascii_field: but then again the whole thing is trivial.
ascii_field: but i do not have a fab. wake me up when you have one.
jurov: how was the tx issue resolved? aa956edc2dd94722b5794eaf4e987ebdc8189d2e4c6334c433d7514a28d6b3ab
mircea_popescu: or a dirigible. so much stuff hanging...
mircea_popescu: jurov foced mining.
jurov: alf gotta switch to "unfreeze me when..."
jurov: as in, you have a deal with miner?
ascii_field: 'resurrect me when'
mircea_popescu: suffice it to say, 4kb txn SHOULD NOT have any fucking problems.
ben_vulpes: 'can also have problems'
mircea_popescu: the relay network is gettng ever shittier.
ascii_field: jurov: it ended with me scouring several GB of packet dump for the tx and not finding it
ascii_field: despite mircea_popescu transmitting nonstop
ascii_field: directly to my node.
mircea_popescu: well. "directly"
ascii_field: 'directly.'
ascii_field: the only kind we presently have.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field at least i didn't need a si fab for it eh.
trinque: "If you wish to eat a nagant, you must first invent the universe."
mircea_popescu intends to mine 1mb txn at some point, just for the fu factor.
trinque: - Carl Sagan
mircea_popescu: (the summary of the txn for the curious : 4223 bytes, 250000 fee, 28 inputs of which 17 = 1 satoshi, 2 outputs. none of this should be controversial. fix your implementations of bitcoin relay)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it never landed.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:47:25; punkman: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267211 << there is unlikely more than a GB or two worth preserving, period. << eh, geddoutofhere.
ben_vulpes expects slurptxn at some indefinite point
jurov: there's porn worth preserving?
mircea_popescu: i have more than a coupla gb of porn i shot myself of my own women. and im keeping it.
mircea_popescu: so there goes that theory.
ascii_field: preserve, preserve.
mircea_popescu: also ftr, the size of the cd was set that way because a certain bigwig wanted to listen to a certain symphony without interruption.
mircea_popescu: there's easily plurious gb of music i also similarly want.
mircea_popescu: there's at least 1k movies that must be kept, and even at the modest 700mb a pop that's 700gb consequently.
ascii_field: what would mircea_popescu hypothetically ~personally~ pay per byte to preserve them ?
ascii_field: in the sense of where they would otherwise disappear.
mircea_popescu: an ounce of usian blood, for starters.
ascii_field: easy to pay with someone else's !
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: the first and foremost function of government : pointing at whose blood must pay for which bytes.
ascii_field: how else.
mircea_popescu: assbot approves.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field was distracted by fist-sized butterfly trying to get through window glass. a very rare sight in this part of the world.
mircea_popescu: butterfly landed on my icecream once.
mircea_popescu: i srsly think it wanted a taste.
thestringpuller: moar comedy gold from #bitcoinxt:
thestringpuller: 16:55 < Aquentin> if we're ever so lucky as to make use of 8gb blocks
thestringpuller: 16:56 < Aquentin> you'd think miners would love all these new potential users...
thestringpuller: 16:56 < Aquentin> instead they want price fixing lol - how dum
mircea_popescu: potential users can go grab the mains
mircea_popescu: help reduce carbon footprint with their potential.
ascii_field: 'whaddayamean the butcher wants to sell the meat, think how many flies he could get'
mircea_popescu: the mark of true potential is when the grid doesn't shake you, but you shake it.
mircea_popescu: this is what mit does, incidentally. "potential engineers". so are you engineers ? no, but we could be.
assbot: A reminder that this guy is a fine citizen and staunch defender of small-blockistan. : bitcoinxt ... ( http://bit.ly/1hYJeOP )
mircea_popescu: my horse also, could be.
mircea_popescu: staunch defender ? and here i thought i fucking started the whole thing.
mircea_popescu: must read reddit more, they know from history.
mircea_popescu: "We saw this kind of thing a quarter-century ago, when debates raged over whether commercial activity should be tolerated on the Internet. To those, for whom the World Wide Web and WiFi have always existed, such a question might seem unthinkably naive, but back then the idea of Suits playing in Propellerheads' sandbox was the stuff of epic flame wars."
mircea_popescu: the difference between now and then is you didn'tr have a nigger president, derps.
mircea_popescu: "Anyone who has arrived early at a general admission event will recognize the feeling. You lay out your blanket, thus marking off a small piece of territory for yourself. The other early arrivals do the same. After a while, you start to feel as though that patch of land is yours by right.
mircea_popescu: With time, new arrivals stand around you, generally trying not to step onto your blanket. As the beginning of the event approaches, you find yourself staring into the rather private areas of those who arrived after you, and might even feel a bit of resentment at their impertinence.
mircea_popescu: Eventually, it is utterly hopeless. You stand and try not to lose any of your possessions as the crowd crushes in around you."
mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha. jesus it must suck to live in the us.
mircea_popescu: anyway. bitcoin is not a "general admission event".
cazalla: i always find these threads amusing tbh
cazalla: utter waste of time, but amusing
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267975 "energy". it's getting to where the use of a term without actual equations in the text is a macula of idiocy.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 13:29:24; funkenstein_: -- celestine prophecy
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: one of my secret pleasures is to track historical patterns of linguistic theft by pseudoscience from the genuine article
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267982 << from what i gather it's "antiquated" and "only used in jest" the same sig heil is.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 13:33:50; funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267185 <-- I'm told the phrase is antiquated and mostly used in jest today. Perhaps interesting that the translation of "revolution" is more akin to "molting" than "spinning".
mircea_popescu: ascii_field this is not even pseudoscience. direct equivalent to "respeto"
mircea_popescu: it probably was "gratia" 1k years ago.
ascii_field: but today it is 'energy'
ascii_field: and it is no particular mystery why
mircea_popescu: because science was cool 50 years ago ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00074659 = 20.6059 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha. jesus it must suck to live in the us. << we usians are pretty much living in idiocracy. soon we'll see mass famine due to watering crops with electrolytes.
mircea_popescu: i don't think the mexicans will allow that.
mircea_popescu: blessfully.
thestringpuller: one can only hope.
mircea_popescu: check it out, mit is making potential potentials!
mircea_popescu: so what is the point of mit ?
mircea_popescu: someone please explains. "mit exists so that...". fill in.
ascii_field: who said there was a point ?
mircea_popescu: can't even fucking keep an article made by its own employees.
ascii_field: it is ~there~, like washington
mircea_popescu: and then funkenstein wants to talk about "the library of alexandria". because branding.
mircea_popescu: how many libraries of alexandria has each derpy us university destroyed each year since 1965 ?
mircea_popescu: oh, there isn't a word for that so it isn't a thing ? or what ?
ascii_field: everything about mit worth preserving even theoretically costs about 100 usd and is on my bookshelf.
ascii_field: everything else - straight to the fermenter vats.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field besides the point.
mircea_popescu: (and since we're doing historical recovery here : the "shame and war" quote comes from churchill, but specifically - it was in a letter to walter guiness. who was assassinated in 1944. by lehi, which was a sort of jdf of the time)
ascii_field: of course churchill
ascii_field: who else
ascii_field thought this was well-known in english world
assbot: It it just me who is seeing a cowardly surrender to cultural decay here? From th... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1hYMrxJ )
assbot: Что будет если в Колу добавить ПРОПАН ? Coca Cola + propane = Mega ROCKET - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1hYNaPw )
BingoBoingo pulled the trigger and ordered the TI-92
ascii_field: happy mc68k-ing BingoBoingo
jurov: BingoBoingo: will you fellate it?
BingoBoingo: jurov: Unfortunately my jaw does not unhinge like a python so unlikely
ascii_field: should've gotten the 89 if that were the plan
ascii_field: 92 is a bit wide
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Thank you for pointing out that market opportunity.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: you could probably get'em even cheaper if you figured out where they are and why
ascii_field: but unless you need 1,001 of them - no reason to
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: I saw some lots for sale at a far sheaper per unit price. I may have to investigate
mircea_popescu: "What creativity can there be when your medium is shit mixed with sawdust?"
mircea_popescu: The same sort of creativity artists possess, who work with media that are idiosyncratic.
mircea_popescu: omfg ycombinator is worse than reddit
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i wrote this
mircea_popescu: they should just buy it and run it togeoops nevermind.
ascii_field: and i still insist, shit is not paint
mircea_popescu: you wrote the quote, im discussing the response.
mircea_popescu: "The same sort of creativity artists possess, who work with media that are idiosyncratic. It's a different mindset. I see the reddit-gen programmers talk about things on a completely meta-level. To them, MySql is the hardware. Is it a bad thing? Not necessarily. Some of them hopefully will dig down the stack and be the low-level heroes. But that should (and probably can) only be a small percentage.
mircea_popescu: Now I guess one could argue that those sorts of heroes are what MIT is supposed to produce, but as has been mentioned, this course is not just for CS students. So the real question is, can the CS heroes of tomorrow survive an introductory course in Python? Well, consider that they have probably been modding games since 10, hacking PhP at 12, realizing at 14 they need to learn a 'real' language (C#, Ruby, Python), by 15
mircea_popescu: I bet they've abstracted out the fact that languages are not all that important; they're just the tip of the iceberg of complexity.
mircea_popescu: So yes, I think they will survive."
mircea_popescu: "we have no answers and are too fat and lazy to move, so let's just agree they will be supplied for free from the ethers as we need them"
ascii_field: lol did i even dignify that with an answer ?!
mircea_popescu: anyway, lol at cute young alf trying so hard.
mircea_popescu: yes lol, and it's funny.
mircea_popescu: (btw, the lehi/jdf thing above ? nazi ally, originally. yes, that's right.)
mircea_popescu: nazis lesser enemies than britain.
trinque: "sql is the hardware" << ow, right in the youth.
mircea_popescu: (they also blew up bernadotte. who, amusingly, is very much the character schindler's list is based on, except not named.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 'hagana' et al set the gold standard for blowing up brits, aha
mircea_popescu: because rather than paying dues where they are due, how about we just steal their history and pretend it's this guy's instead. he's cheaper)
thestringpuller: !up ascii_field
thestringpuller: trinque: this is how CS students are taught tho sadly. Oracle doesn't with this either.
thestringpuller: oracle doesn't help with this*
thestringpuller: the spam has begun!
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 14:21:26; asciilifeform: the conflation of 'owning gold' and 'using xyz vault' is also reminiscent of the mtgox mediatronic idiocies
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268077 << nature. for the same reason smart people have idiot kids, idiots usually have smart[er] offspring.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 15:11:20; shinohai: Who allows these people to reproduce?
shinohai was flabbergasted these ppl are so upset over such a trivial thing.
jurov: ;;isup blockchain.com
gribble: blockchain.com is up
jurov: it says maxed requests
jurov: first spam victim, as usual :)
ascii_field: l0l, qntra linked from bci !
kakobrekla: where?
ascii_field: kakobrekla: the streamer box
ascii_field: titled 'Turns out the current crisis was predicted back in early 2013. Goess by whom.'
ascii_field: which is a reddit page, which is a link to qntra
kakobrekla: ah. sez reddit.
mircea_popescu: "Is it saved in RAM anywhere or perhaps in the java?" << ironically it prolly is lol
kakobrekla: weird, that 'news box' is usually full of _OLD_ spam
mircea_popescu: yeah blockchain's aobut as useful as a suntime umbrella.
kakobrekla: Invest BTC in peer-to-peer loans and get 19% APR with BTCJam.com
kakobrekla: BTCJam < 1 minute ago
kakobrekla: this has been on it for months
kakobrekla: or maybe they lower the apr and make it news
kakobrekla: dunno.
shinohai: Now the dogecoin derps are experts in what bitcoin should be doing: http://digiconomist.net/interview-ross-nicoll
assbot: Bitcoin Needs To Stop Talking & Start Doing - Digiconomist ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYVTqx )
trinque: "huge lack" << stops reading
trinque: signs of a miswired brain
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
assbot: Is autism permanent? Some children diagnosed with autism seem to grow out of the core symptoms. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYWHvJ )
trinque: BingoBoingo: "My son screams when anyone touches his toys." ... "So, kick his ass when he does that?"
trinque: would not surprise me at all that a lot of this is normal misbehavior left festering like an untreated wound
shinohai: Maybe their nest monitor went down and the kids got autism when they weren't being watched.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Basically that and "My kid was autistic but got better when socialized 40 hours a week with people who give a fuck."
trinque: no app for that
BingoBoingo: TrueFax: Apps cause Autism
cazalla: an anecdote, but parents want to label their kids autistic as adhd has been done to death
cazalla: because, you know, earning the label requires taking your kid to the gp, to a specialist, to an expert, a support group, filling out paperwork for gov autism assistance bezzlars.. wow look at all this attention my kid is getting, must be special and therefore, so am i as a parent, please Like and subscribe
mircea_popescu: shinohai heh
mircea_popescu: "the dogecoin derps are experts in what bitcoin should be doing"
mircea_popescu: "we're very butthurt at how bitcoin excluded us. it should not do that. we're important. and the place we left to failed."
cazalla: Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Sometimes Mysterious
mircea_popescu: "Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Sometimes Mysterious" << about 1/4 of all retarded housewife profiles.
mircea_popescu: "i'm 30 and my life is over now because i can't be arsed to learn any skills"
mircea_popescu: !up rektimus
shinohai: Ah yes. And naturally they must prove their superiority by some means.
shinohai: I have a never-ending supply of butthurt-bandaids. ( ::: [ ] ::: )
mircea_popescu: should be ( ::: [x] ::: )
mircea_popescu: if you liked the above bandaid please like and subscribe to the thread!
shinohai: have an upvote ^
BingoBoingo: I thought for true butthurt you needed [=========]~~~~~~ tampons instead to apply pressure to the bleeding. WTF is a bandaid going to do?
BingoBoingo: Wait, is that a tampon or a pipe bomb
shinohai: looks like jizz escaping a fleshlight to me
assbot: JL: Labor Day in Harm City ... ( http://bit.ly/1JUZ8kA )
mircea_popescu: !up Londe
mircea_popescu: "We are all now well aware that the authorities will do absolutely nothing to protect citizens or businesses and will dedicated %100 of their resources to protecting the police and government personnel and facilities."
assbot: Seinfeld clip George fire - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JV0Q5H )
mircea_popescu: meh wrong clip.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00073709 = 23.7343 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: The Best of George Costanza - The Fire - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JV1m3A )
mircea_popescu: GEORGE (voice is hoarse from screaming): I...was trying to lead the way. We needed a leader! Someone to lead the way to safety.
mircea_popescu: ROBIN: But you yelled "get out of my way"!
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Because! Because, as the leader...if I die...then all hope is lost! Who would lead? The clown? Instead of castigating me, you should all be thanking me. What kind of a topsy-turvy world do we live in, where heroes are cast as villains? Brave men as cowards?
mircea_popescu: ROBIN: But I saw you push the women and children out of the way in a mad panic! I saw you knock them down! And when you ran out, you left everyone behind!
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Seemingly. Seemingly, to the untrained eye, I can fully understand how you got that impression. What looked like pushing...what looked like knocking down...was a safety precaution! In a fire, you stay close to the ground, am I right? And when I ran out that door, I was not leaving anyone behind! Oh, quite the contrary! I risked my life making sure that exit was clear. Any other questions?
mircea_popescu: FIREMAN: How do you live with yourself?
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Its not easy.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45150 @ 0.0007411 = 33.4607 BTC [+] {5}
shinohai didn't know mircea_popescu enjoyed Seinfeld .
mircea_popescu: it's about 90% of all us tv i watched, by volume.
shinohai: Probably the only show I ever bothered to actually purchase.
mircea_popescu: "On the eve of what may likely be another effort by the white liberal media to fan the flames of race war in Baltimore, I’m not seeing as much flammable human material as the media priesthood would have us believe. Surely there will be enough entitled racist foot soldiers to set another 154 fires at least, to empty another four dozen pharmacies and liquor stores, terrorizing more of their fellow blacks than anyone.
mircea_popescu: What I do not see are locals ready to engage in such activity."
mircea_popescu: lol poor lafond, he could be in rhodesia and not know the difference.
mircea_popescu: no locals engaging ? of course no locals. don't worry abut it, usg will ship foreign armed thugs across the border for as long as it takes you to kill it.
BingoBoingo: How quickly He turned from potential interesting read to anthropological case study.
mircea_popescu: guy's a boxer. what do you want from him. either he gets a master or flails around helplessly, not like he's going to you know, concentrate really hard and attain enlightment.
mircea_popescu: but anyways. he does get the point about how there's no thieves and police, but unsanctioned criminals and sanctioned criminals.
BingoBoingo: Yeah. One of the few tolerable US reads. One of the very few east coast ones.
mircea_popescu: "My commitment to the American people is both simple and straightforward: I will cook any and every number that needs to be cooked. We’ll see continued job growth, probably an unemployment rate under 2 percent. You also have my word that I’ll keep the LFPR above 66 percent. With a little help from my friends, we can probably run a surplus within a year or so, and pay down all our debt over the next decade or so. No
mircea_popescu: thing we can’t do with a little moxie and an Excel spreadsheet or two. (Jeb! – that 4% growth rate you’re pining for? Call me.)
mircea_popescu: Let’s get serious here – if you think the government is cooking all manner of economic releases, you need to explain the LFPR."
mircea_popescu: lmao check out ritholtz.
mircea_popescu: "we are lying through our teeth and if yo usay this you gotta explain our crankbait"
mircea_popescu: derp. you don't control the narrative. i control the narrative. get fucked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00074816 = 15.861 BTC [+]
assbot: HTTP is obsolete. It's time for the distributed, permanent web ... ( http://bit.ly/1L30w9d )
asciilifeform: l0l embrace & extinguish of xanadu !
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, re blackholing : did you also get a lot of socket error 113s ?
asciilifeform: no route to host ?
mircea_popescu: doesn't seem to be much pattern to it tho.
asciilifeform: lemme guess, mircea_popescu's node drifting in space
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268123 << pretty much goes without saying, how else ?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 17:05:30; jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope, not yet. still doing ~600 blocks/hr
mircea_popescu: tho maybe on the more 500 side of 600.
shinohai: I am getting some socket recv error 110
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268184 <<< this because you never looked at it seriously ?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 17:44:48; punkman: ascii_field, I wouldn't think fake capacity numbers are a problem, but yeah I guess you gotta write $x GB of data to it that can't be compressed away
BingoBoingo: !up Birdman
mircea_popescu: oh shit, 2.2k linmes today . no wonder the log seemed endless.
mircea_popescu: yo Birdman everyone's looking for you like the 2nd coming in eulora on account of those recipes.
Birdman: Ah, i'd been inactive as there wasnt anything i could do until i get my bank roll up
mircea_popescu: talk to danielpbarron or diana or something
assbot: Consumers Begin Revolting, Bitcoin Is Not Visa | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1L31LVP )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1269003 << even here we have the fake cn drives, in all form factors even, from doctored thumb drive to hollow laptop ssd containing lead weights and sd reader, etc
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 23:59:51; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268184 <<< this because you never looked at it seriously ?
asciilifeform: even from american retail shops
asciilifeform: e.g., 'best buy'
asciilifeform: and no, you will not read about it in the birdcage liner or the fishwrap, because It Never Happened
asciilifeform: iirc the shop boss claimed that 'someone returned the package with this fake re-shrinkwrapped into it'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24750 @ 0.00074843 = 18.5236 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-09-2015#1269012 <<< I actually got one of these abt a year ago, a thumb drive with a couple of cheap bolts hot-glued to the case.
assbot: Logged on 10-09-2015 00:05:33; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1269003 << even here we have the fake cn drives, in all form factors even, from doctored thumb drive to hollow laptop ssd containing lead weights and sd reader, etc
BingoBoingo wonder what interest there would be for physical media containing a WoT attested Blockchain shipped. Rates roughly 0.3 BTC for the media and shipping prices 4 BTC to 400 BTC depending on where the media needs shipped
BingoBoingo: Expensive shipping, because simplest chain of custody is WoT member hand delivers
asciilifeform: shinohai et al: i keep waiting for that magical day when these fakes become something like the real thing in the sense of having an embedded wireless nic, silently storing blocks in 'cloud' somewhere
asciilifeform: it'll be quite like a real drive, but slower, cheaper
asciilifeform: as i understand this presently exists as a deliberately-crafted commercial product, used in cameras. but picture if it were picked up by cn artisans of flimflam
asciilifeform: it will be quite the ideal nsatron
asciilifeform: perhaps even sold openly: 'buy this bottomless drive!'
shinohai: Remember cn already has the usb chargers that call home
asciilifeform: shinohai: i keep looking for this, because it'd make a glorious esp8266 substitute
asciilifeform: but somehow they only ever get sold to folks who aren't me
asciilifeform: ditto the famous teapot
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 4 BTC to 400 for shipping ?! what do you intend to use, ballistic rocket ?
shinohai: Should I stumble upon an example I will gladly hip it to you.
shinohai: *ship
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: 4 BTC to 400 for shipping ?! what do you intend to use, ballistic rocket ? << Self + vehicles
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what is the purpose of this? i mean, you can transmit a pgp sig and post the disk
BingoBoingo: Minimum could probably go lower for exceedingly local deliveries
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Purpose is anyone who doesn't want to mess with wires at all.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: l0l! what would this fella use for a node ? gurlz with pencils ?
shinohai: !s EK-928-C
assbot: 0 results for 'EK-928-C' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=EK-928-C
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe?
BingoBoingo: Price is kinda to filter out people who wouldn't use girls with pencils
asciilifeform: at the risk of repeating myself, shipping blockchains is sad.
asciilifeform: the thing is supposed to sync itself, that is part and parcel of how bitcoin is meant to work.
asciilifeform: every full node is rightfully a walk through all of history
asciilifeform: if it isn't, it is rather like merely an expensive sort of 'sybil'
asciilifeform: kinda like what gavin&hearn make.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the 'equation solver' is actually half of why people bought the thing
shinohai salivates like Pavlov's dog ...
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> at the risk of repeating myself, shipping blockchains is sad. << Other reason for oppresive minimum cost
asciilifeform: shinohai: didja have one of these as a boy ?
BingoBoingo: Equation solver was why I got TI-89 in HS
shinohai: I didn't unfortunately :(
asciilifeform: btw these humble machines were superior to pc in a certain respect - greek symbols on kbd !
asciilifeform: (via a meta key, sure. but worked seamlessly!)
asciilifeform: greek appeared on the early lisp machine keyboards, as well
asciilifeform: i regard it as the mark of a thinking man's computer
asciilifeform: who the fuck wants to type the word 'lambda' ?!
asciilifeform: or 'delta'
assbot: Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computer ... ( http://bit.ly/1UI4LYC )
asciilifeform: shinohai: some folks even today do crypto on these
shinohai: srsly?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00073621 = 9.902 BTC [-] {5}
shinohai: Found a decent ti-89 for ~$200.
asciilifeform: http://web.alfredstate.edu/quagliato/ti92/tiprog/tiprog.htm << even the asinine 'basic' of these things beats just about anything given to pc novices now
assbot: Programing with the TI-92 ... ( http://bit.ly/1UI4ULw )
shinohai: Welp my poor ass won't be getting one anytime soon.
asciilifeform: shinohai: if you're not a schoolboy, avoid the 89.
asciilifeform: it is ~identical~ to the 92 but has no qwerty
asciilifeform: 92 is ~25 usd surplus.
asciilifeform: believe or not, they let u.s. schoolchildren use '89' on exams.
asciilifeform: but not 92.
asciilifeform: somehow, automagically doing most of symbolic manipulations through sophomore uni maths or so, is a-ok, but oh noez, keyboard could be used to... what?
asciilifeform: save questions from exam for crib sheet?
asciilifeform: it never made sense to me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you're mystified as to wtf all of this was, these old gadgets are (literally) 'derive.exe'-in-a-can.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15806 @ 0.00073555 = 11.6261 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: complete with the 3d grapher thing
shinohai: I must have one.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11844 @ 0.00073456 = 8.7001 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> perhaps even sold openly: 'buy this bottomless drive!' <<< "unmetered badwitdh!!1"
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> at the risk of repeating myself, shipping blockchains is sad. << so guy wants to meet a guy with girls and pencils.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: if you're mystified as to wtf all of this was, these old gadgets are (literally) 'derive.exe'-in-a-can. << Seriously on the AP Calculus test machine and knowing how to use it was THE trump card.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> <asciilifeform> at the risk of repeating myself, shipping blockchains is sad. << so guy wants to meet a guy with girls and pencils. << mircea_popescu gets it
BingoBoingo: Or person paying premium to see what someone else's blockchain looks like
BingoBoingo: Perhaps to compare stored forklets
asciilifeform: it's like cutting somebody open to count their tree rings or sumthing.
BingoBoingo: Everything has a price. Even the bad ideas. Someone has to present the possibility to them.
asciilifeform: i'll leave it there.
asciilifeform: who really desperately wants this, can download emulator
asciilifeform: it exists.
asciilifeform: (if you need the rom, ask me)
asciilifeform: i have a:
asciilifeform: Dec 25 2000 TI92.ROM
asciilifeform: sha512:9924f6921f3fcfd9069a79bfb5f49336789a0cf798cabc26660e4d0129d0708cfd32e6960367b5ebc5f34475d24940d244e1f15c752d1f6c9990f10380038873
asciilifeform: it is EXACTLY 1MB.
asciilifeform: impressive, what they fit in there, no ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00074082 = 12.0383 BTC [+]
shinohai: May I obtain this rom asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: interestingly, ti is (or at least was) one of the most tightfistedly-drm-besotten hardware makers; to the point that PEOPLE GANGED UP AND FACTORED THEIR RSA KEY - http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/14/145/145273.html
asciilifeform: back when it was nontrivial
shinohai: jeez 2009
asciilifeform: shinohai: your key is not self-signed
asciilifeform: gpg: 73708B0E: There is no assurance this key belongs to the named user
asciilifeform: pub 2048R/73708B0E 2015-01-21 shinohai <shinohai@sdf.org>
asciilifeform: Primary key fingerprint: FDF6 3798 C83A 7B13 75F7 2468 E335 8571 3E18 4252
asciilifeform: Subkey fingerprint: 7B0D 6C5D D3C6 46DE EB0D F73D B4A0 4553 7370 8B0E
shinohai: my bad
mod6: <asciilifeform> please consider updating therealbitcoin www to include the actually usable version thereof ? << The only reason I'm holdin' back here is we don't have a certified release as of yet. Will consider putting up v0.5.4-TEST2
asciilifeform: shinohai: i sent it to your email addr
asciilifeform: shinohai: i guess hitler can decrypt it also, and use the rom.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00073451 = 6.5739 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: shinohai: please consider using a civilized pgp key in the future
shinohai: I should make a new key, since I discovered keybase was a waste of time.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: You could do far worse than picking up a TI-92 and some dice
shinohai: true
asciilifeform: mod6: i was recently in a slightly awkward situation of explaining therealbitcoin to an intelligent n00b, but not able to recommend anything hosted at therealbitcoin.org for actual use
asciilifeform: mod6: hence why i asked.
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu even has rel2-beta going on an actual battlefield box. but he's a brave fella, and has fallbacks
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 20:42:32; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263954 << 188.68.240.159 is also online, running pressed stator.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ^ which head did you press to ?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: hence why i asked. << it's been on my mind lately. thanks for prodding me.
BingoBoingo: Gawker Media being dicks to legit working men https://archive.is/4ulHC
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lulzy. i'm slightly surprised the thing sold at all other than to a junkyard
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18750 @ 0.00073775 = 13.8328 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not really. It is hard to get a road worthy title on the things
BingoBoingo: Even when they run
BingoBoingo: And the military hummer has a certain stotting value the Ford "King Ranch" doesn't
BingoBoingo: $12,000-$15,000 also fits the sweet spot for "toy" vehicles. Less than people pay for a boat and more than they can sell it for.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00073435 = 7.6372 BTC [-]
assbot: Texas woman convicted of producing 'animal crush' porn films ... ( http://bit.ly/1L3b4Fi )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00073367 = 8.4372 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: peoplma comments on Fun project: make a smart contract that pays out if # of BIP101 blocks stays under a threshold. Possible on BTC if we had OP_CAT & OP_CLTV! ... ( http://bit.ly/1L3cHmu )
shinohai: ISP "obliterated"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2617 @ 0.00073612 = 1.9264 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: shinohai: My hometown made a FTTH project a few years ago, obliterated themselves and the other ISPs by installing the big laser backwards
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12941 @ 0.00074692 = 9.6659 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: top kek
BingoBoingo: Took out both other ISPs for the better part of a day, killed the laser too.
mike_c: asciilifeform: http://i.imgur.com/bssAWaw.png phuctor not accepting submissions?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: ^ which head did you press to ? << wait theres multiple ?!
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Phuctor is down, moving hosts
mike_c: ah, thanks
BingoBoingo: Hopefully Phuctor is back up by November
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha it takes a destionation dir name and a patch name (called in this case 'head'). applies sequence up through and including head.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip_192f7bc7c14c1d31c7b417c9cd77be51c4d255f2.patch
asciilifeform: srsly ?!
asciilifeform: iirc that's not even rel1 !
asciilifeform: in fact that would leave dns invocation in
asciilifeform: and prevent a functioning stator, period.
asciilifeform: and certainly will not build in rotor.
assbot: [BTC-dev] V examples. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MXJGZq )
mircea_popescu: bitcoin < asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip_192f7bc7c14c1d31c7b417c9cd77be51c4d255f2.patch < asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_2d219fdd1a0da960be38797566e9c0820df11ce6.patch < asciilifeform_tx-orphanage_amputation_6ed529e594301a791fb2f8becbe344dd2de9c45f.patch < asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds_a367b89765d0b82ce2c7f8043f52006399a1e0b8.patch < asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud_ebf527ba3b180b1952c4c8b5af990c1fd61e04da.patc
mircea_popescu: h < asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing_691f046b0a66c2c80deecd8df0b42d11665b0396.patch < asciilifeform_ver_now_5_4_and_irc_is_gone_and_now_must_give_ip_ebed1af0253ef629bbef4bf2b2d1a94742a81f0e.patch
asciilifeform: this is not a 'v' build...
mircea_popescu: hm you know i think you're right, this is an older thing
asciilifeform: it won't even function. lacks the db locks correction
asciilifeform: unless you went and put that in by hand.
mircea_popescu: it functions somehow. mebbe in in the wrong box
mircea_popescu will sort this out later.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23710 @ 0.00074717 = 17.7154 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 239.61, Best ask: 239.64, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 239.6, 24 hour volume: 14022.04967604, 24 hour low: 238.38, 24 hour high: 245.57, 24 hour vwap: None
BingoBoingo though after last night believes FYIAD may become a standard #b-a retorn to hearnianites
BingoBoingo: We hoard wealth, are conservative as hell, and eat idiots
pete_dushenski: didn't dragons fight men noticably more heroic than the power ranger derp brigade ?
BingoBoingo: And far less if you read up on Komodo dragon kills in WWII
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14550 @ 0.0007518 = 10.9387 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: weapon of japanese army ?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Nah, hazard of fighting where the big danger isn't the explicit enemy
BingoBoingo: For both sides
pete_dushenski: biological landmines essentially
BingoBoingo: Only in the sense that the predator in Predator II was a landmine for Danny GLover and the drug gangs
pete_dushenski: never seen a predator movie, but can imagine
BingoBoingo: Not a weapon, a more capble discounted enemy.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Predator II is actually one of the classics of its time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00075184 = 15.2248 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Japan’s Biggest Mob Group Splits Under Money, Police Pressure - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1KFxjm3 )
pete_dushenski: sorry if re-post
pete_dushenski: still logging up
pete_dushenski: "The Yamaguchi-gumi still boasts some 23,000 core and associate members, around 44% of all yakuza in Japan, according to police estimates. But membership has been shrinking along with an overall decline in yakuza groups, and Mr. Shinoda’s control has grown shakier. “The prolonged economic stagnation steadily chipped away at the yakuza’s financial clout,” "
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-09-2015#1269147 << it's really quite bad ass, the hummer. assuming the heater worked, i'd pick one up for $15k
assbot: Logged on 10-09-2015 01:20:40; BingoBoingo: And the military hummer has a certain stotting value the Ford "King Ranch" doesn't
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: How does the heater not work in a way that wouldn't be cheap to fix?
pete_dushenski: i have nfi what parts on a hummer'd cost
BingoBoingo: It's just an extension of the engine's cooling system
BingoBoingo: Parts roughly would cost one or two unlicensable or untitleable examples at most
pete_dushenski: probably somewhere between monte carlo and maybach, but where, i know not
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: which could be thousands.
pete_dushenski: or double-digit percentage of purchase price
BingoBoingo: Well, probably would cost somewhere between a Chevy monte carlo's breakpads and a maybach quarter panel
pete_dushenski: lol sure
pete_dushenski: $150 - $15k
BingoBoingo: But for a car person pete_dushenski it sounds like you need friends in lower places.
BingoBoingo: Fuck, a roadworthy chevy monte carlo can be had for $500
pete_dushenski: while in general this is most certainly true that i could use more lowerly placed contacts, i'm in no need of classic mercedes help
pete_dushenski: i have what i need and more isn't hard to find
pete_dushenski: but expensive to maintain any contacts if you don't need them
pete_dushenski: solid web browser logs
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268238 << would be far more interesting if their website could be navigated. like at all.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 18:48:51; punkman: http://archillect.com/
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well, the best band for buck autocontacts I know are the demolition derby crowd. They know the parts and cars that fail.
pete_dushenski: ;;google alberta demolition derby
gribble: Alberta demolition derby 09 - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVh-x_oL724>; 30th Annual Lions Demolition Derby - Rocky Mountain House, Alberta: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i4vZxw4l5w>; Wembley Demolition Derby: <http://www.wembleydemolitionderby.com/>
pete_dushenski: "The Wembley Demolition Derby is Proud to announce our 10th Anual Demolition Derby which is taking place on September 12th, 2015 at 11:00 a.m until 6:00 p.m."
pete_dushenski: definitely lower placed
BingoBoingo: Nah, They've got cultural standards to conform to.
pete_dushenski: oh sweet, webley alberta is only a 5 hour drive away
pete_dushenski: *wembley
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11503 @ 0.00075194 = 8.6496 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17033 @ 0.0007512 = 12.7952 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Every year I've got a combine (as in the farm equipment) and car demolition derby on back to back days hundreds of feet aways
pete_dushenski: and do you go ?
BingoBoingo: some years, usually if I go for the big tractors
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00075201 = 13.7994 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268355 << complete with ALWAYS-ON MICROPHONE. awesome.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 19:28:28; trinque: but we made a new iPhone
pete_dushenski: apple's equivalent of 'hello google' or whatever that motorola had last year
pete_dushenski: so yes, hanging out with girls and their iphone 6s' is a liability. welcome to the future.
mircea_popescu: it's for in case they get raped.
pete_dushenski: or if a guy says "hey cutie"
pete_dushenski: gotta capture the moment
pete_dushenski: share on social medias
pete_dushenski: for popularity
mircea_popescu: guys still do that ?
pete_dushenski: now BingoBoingo has me looking as muscly old off-roaders. and this is too, too sharp in red http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-G-Class-5-Doors-/262036024935?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d02906e67&item=262036024935
assbot: Mercedes Benz G Class 5 Doors | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1iyeBAf )
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: for sure.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Isn't it?
pete_dushenski: big time.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31607 @ 0.00075335 = 23.8111 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Since I missed my last fiat window I've been looking also at the basic Chevy Blazer ZR-2, cheap 2 door beasts
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