Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-08-31 | 2015-09-02 → ↓
asciilifeform: and change.
mircea_popescu: how many alfs are there ? how many do they need, to cover their immense if fictitious debt base ?
mircea_popescu: your 10 bucks buys them less than a second of life.
asciilifeform: 30! two of my neighbours in uranium mine also bought! aha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still can't figure out why they are (?) in debt. am i thick or what
asciilifeform: why does it actually cost anything to run 'coinbase'
mircea_popescu: you kidding me they just took even more millions at whatever dilution
asciilifeform: it's a straight 'buy cheap, sell dear, get occasional mountain of looted coinz from usg' deal, no ?
mircea_popescu: why. because it's run by the catamite club of us.
asciilifeform: what is the reason to think that they will ever have to pay it back ?
mircea_popescu: "Alydian Inc., a unit of CoinLab Inc., on Friday filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. bankruptcy court in Seattle. The 10-page court filing didn't disclose why Alydian filed for bankruptcy or how it hopes to repay its debts."
mircea_popescu: why did those ?
asciilifeform: because not lubricated enough of a catamite ?
asciilifeform: did not go to yaletonward with the right folks ?
mircea_popescu: there's a finite count of failing to goal that these things can survive.
phf: (asciilifeform: by the way if you haven't played http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/darkeye/darkeye.htm. it's not much of a quest, but it has a consistently fantastic mood. Burroughs does voice acting for one of the characters)
assbot: Hardcore Gaming 101: The Dark Eye ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIqv0o )
asciilifeform: 'coinbase' will be kept alive via whatever means, while it does its job (rat our folks who cash out to usd; keep price fire-extinguished a la gold)
asciilifeform: phf: neato
mod6: asciilifeform: qq, I was under the impression that when using press, if I picked something like 'maxint_corrected', it would patch all the way up through that one. but it didn't seem to apply the -verifyall patch? or do I misunderstand how its supposed to work? http://dpaste.com/1J2BS40.txt thoughts?
mod6: OH
mod6: i see, when i check flow, i see that 'verifyall' comes /after/ maxint
mod6: which isn't the case chronoligicaly
mod6: but in this case, it is. i get it. sorry.
asciilifeform: but there are no timestamps, remember !
mod6: yup yup
mod6: i was mechanically cross checking the output file checksums against the v054-TEST2 bundle and noticed that i didn't come out with -verifyall in there. was really wondering for a minute lol.
mod6: *chronologically too
asciilifeform: mod6: does it make sense to you how 'flow' works ?
asciilifeform: this is perhaps the only difficult part of the thing
mod6: yeah, i don't grasp that part fully yet. but it does make sense from genesis up through patches/bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch
mod6: i suspect that I'll need to look at the touched files and the hashes to make sense of this.
asciilifeform: roughly, the way it works - must work - is that no patch is applied for which the dependencies have not already been applies.
asciilifeform: *applied
asciilifeform: this is what 'topological sort' means
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00068299 = 17.0748 BTC [-] {4}
mod6: ok, i think i get it. neither patches/asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.vpatch or patches/asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option.vpatch have any dependants (d's)
asciilifeform: incidentally, your unixlike box almost certainly has 'tsort' utility
asciilifeform: which does just this.
mod6: but the rest do, so they come last.
mod6: well, the 2 i just mentioned come last. is there any reason on the sort order of the last 2? or i just need to grok toposort more?
asciilifeform: descendants !
asciilifeform: OPPOSITE!
asciilifeform: time for a brief likbez, perhaps. antecedent - earlier patch that must have happened to satisfy a given patch
mod6: <+asciilifeform> descendants ! << mean this, my apologies.
asciilifeform: descendant - later patch, which requires this patch.
mod6: heheh, my fingers didn't want to type what my brain was trying to say. it's a little baked from the sun today at the fair.
mircea_popescu: perhaps the anatomically nudest orgasm depiction
asciilifeform: waitasec that's a human ?!
mod6: oo a gif
mircea_popescu: purely mechanical functioning human.
asciilifeform: mod6: btw if my terminology is confusing, please do not hesitate to suggest alternate
asciilifeform: in place of, e.g., descendant, antecedent, etc
mod6: no, not at all. it is accurate in my opinion
asciilifeform: other than various fixes / cleanups, the 1 thing i still wanna add to 'v' is file histories
asciilifeform: ./v.py patches h foo/bitcoin/src/main.cpp
mod6: i know nothing of python... although from reading your code, i'm starting to grasp it.
asciilifeform: and dumps changed, in topo-order, with signators
asciilifeform: *changes
asciilifeform: btw mod6 does the 'o' command make sense?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2965 @ 0.00068137 = 2.0203 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: (as in, can you guess, without explanation, why i included it)
mod6: the origin cmd is pretty neat too
asciilifeform: it is mainly because my disk is littered with 1,001 copies of therealbitcoin tree
asciilifeform: from various stages of vivisection
asciilifeform: some corresponding to a released patch set, others not
asciilifeform: and it is helpful to litmus-test these and place where (if anywhere) they belong
asciilifeform: unrelatedly,
asciilifeform: the one other thing i neglected to explain anywhere is how to make the wot
asciilifeform: place pubkeys in the dir (defaults to home dir, subdir .wot) and, importantly,
asciilifeform: nicknames end up being the respective filename-sans-extension.
asciilifeform: as shown in the demo tarball.
asciilifeform: (there is literally no other place 'v' could possibly learn them..)
mod6: sure. i was able to figure that out straight off np. helped by having a few bundled up in v99/wot/
asciilifeform: i think this is literally all.
mod6: but yeah, i just `mkdir -p ~/.seals ~/.wot` and dropped the sigs into ~/.seals and the pub keys in ~/.wot and off it went.
asciilifeform: now all we need is to persuade jurov to set up something like 'rsync' on his box
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17549 @ 0.00068108 = 11.9523 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: i saw punkman say something about dropping in a python-gnupg side-by-side with V -- i've gotta try that yet. might be cool for an airgap box or something.
asciilifeform: mod6: wai wat
asciilifeform: mod6: 'v' doesn't do crypto
asciilifeform: doesn't need an airgap
BingoBoingo: comment spam lol, "own datacenter" uses aws http://dpaste.com/0F4ATGC
assbot: dpaste: 0F4ATGC ... ( http://bit.ly/1JItkyj )
mod6: no no.
asciilifeform: (you can't sign with it)
mod6: i know.
mod6: i guess i don't mean to confuse.. was just thinking about it in the capacity where a stripped down box is being used.
asciilifeform: oh and if it isn't clear, python-gnupg just shell-callouts to ordinary gpg.
mod6: oh it's just a wrapper?
asciilifeform: no gpg-compatible anything of any other kind exists anywhere.
asciilifeform: (see thread)
mod6: anyway, thanks for putting all this together!
assbot: Logged on 24-08-2015 15:42:03; asciilifeform: thing to realize is that gpg was written to be maximally un-librarifiable. like gcc.
mod6: and for taking the time to explain some of it to me.
asciilifeform: mod6: yw
asciilifeform: my hope is that it means hanbot can go back to writing fiction
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-08-2015#1250164 << thread << thx. ya, i recall this. long road ahead haha.
assbot: Logged on 24-08-2015 15:42:03; asciilifeform: thing to realize is that gpg was written to be maximally un-librarifiable. like gcc.
asciilifeform: rather than roasting in the hell of figuring my patch topology out with a pencil
asciilifeform: 'v' is a double-edged sword, however, i must say, in that it makes it possible to build therealbitcoin without reading patches or giving a fuck
asciilifeform: which was really not the case before, despite well-intentioned efforts of the people here at making automatic build scripts, etc
phf: i spent some time going through exercise of getting rid of main in gnupg 1.*, compiling it into a dynamic library, loading into a lisp and calling c functions through ffi. it's doable, but yeah environment very hostile to librarification: often times reporting is done only as a printf, with no status codes, so impossible to do simple (= (ffi-call...) 0) without unpacking the c level function
mod6: fair assesment there. but, i think it's great, and clean, and "works". responsibility is on the signer to read what they sign. same in life.
asciilifeform: phf: ffi with c crud is a nightmare always and everywhere
asciilifeform: none of it has any notion of intelligent error handling, or restarts, or, or...
phf: sure, but i did some large scale projects using ffi (including things like modifying arrays on heap from inside c libraries), so i don't think it's necessarily dead end. just that gnupg doesn't make it easy at all and requires basically full environment scaffolding before you can do anything useful
mod6: <+asciilifeform> rather than roasting in the hell of figuring my patch topology out with a pencil << imagine how much easier it is now for a person to literally pick a place in the flow and patch directly to it. instead of wading through mutliated corpses trying to find the least smelly ones.
phf: which wouldn't be a problem in a traditional c code, but in case of gnupg half of the code seems to have hidden, side channel concerns, that i just don't have yet enough experience in practical crypto to grok
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00068045 = 15.7184 BTC [-] {3}
phf: for example this code http://paste.lisp.org/display/154625 validates signatures (using ccl's ffi generator and slightly patched gnupg 1.4.19), but on failure verify_signature either prints to stdout, with no notable return code or sometimes exit(...)'s the whole process
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51950 @ 0.00067731 = 35.1863 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIvXjD )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105413 @ 0.00067078 = 70.7089 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16122 @ 0.00066132 = 10.6618 BTC [-]
assbot: [bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIwQce )
BingoBoingo: spam started
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.0006852 = 10.7919 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9567 @ 0.00066618 = 6.3733 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20083 @ 0.00066627 = 13.3807 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00067449 = 8.9033 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22364 @ 0.00067449 = 15.0843 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up laurita
BingoBoingo: !up donpillou
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30965 @ 0.00068325 = 21.1568 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13654 @ 0.00066439 = 9.0716 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 372468 | Current Difficulty: 5.425663032788996E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 372959 | Next Difficulty In: 491 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'v' is a double-edged sword, however, i must say, in that it makes it possible to build therealbitcoin without reading patches or giving a fuck << blind trust is only a problem to the blind trustor.
mircea_popescu: !up laurita
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "blocking ports" bs has been going on for nigh on 20 years now.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the "bitcoin uses port 8333" thing is retarded.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin should use any arbitrary port, including 80
mircea_popescu: this notion where we respect ~anything~ has got to go.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin over dead bodies.
BingoBoingo: prolly skip port 25 though, MSExChange servers pissing spam everywhere prolly ruined that one
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu Also it looks like Kim kinda went Monero... https://slimgur.com/images/2015/08/31/3a08dc9a038e0c30bb568b48d0f758cd.jpg
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3838 @ 0.00056039 = 2.1508 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: dude she's a tank
BingoBoingo: Inflation is a bitch
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: you'd have to complain to the author of the OpenAES library :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00056671 = 12.2976 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: So much #ifdef, seeding with time and process id
fluffypony: that's an oaes thing
fluffypony: I just fixed it to use gettimeofday instead of ftime on BSD
mircea_popescu wouldn't feel safe fucking kim w/o a coupla wrestler wingmen ready to tag.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Time machine could also work
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Seriously though all the ifdefs scattered everywhere
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: well it's either that or we have to refactor every exception into functions_windows.cpp / functions_bsd.cpp / functions_linux.cpp etc., which would make the code splintered and extremely hard to work with
BingoBoingo: The way everything is organized now is also very hard to work with. cmake scattered all over every directory
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: that's a CMake best practices thing, the guy that did that (Ben Boeckel) is one of the CMake developers
BingoBoingo: But is cmake itself a good thing?
fluffypony: yes very much
fluffypony: autoconf is horrible
BingoBoingo: what about just... make
fluffypony: too many disparate environments for that
BingoBoingo: Even qt.pro as implemented in bitcoin, for people who still use it that way, seems more organized
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-08-2015#1257612 <<< almost clicked off while waiting but figured alf would not link such a thing without providing the goods.. did not disappoint
assbot: Logged on 31-08-2015 20:55:11; ascii_field: http://i.imgur.com/ibUaHil.gifv << sapping practice.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00055048 = 8.7526 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100000 @ 0.00063841 = 63.841 BTC [+] {9}
assbot: the peculiar libretunnel situation ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5Anqr )
punkman: BingoBoingo: I dunno why anyone humors the license derps
BingoBoingo: Neither do I, but they are so easy to troll
shinohai: ;;later tell trinque despite me being the most "Special Ed" of anyone here, persistence paid off: http://i.imgur.com/3xAoZTN.png?1
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: BIP-101 Syndicate Shares Fiat Ties, Opposition to Actual Bitcoin | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1NUuFbw )
BingoBoingo: None at all.
shinohai: Because as we say in the South, "Backdoor guests are best".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00063391 = 11.4104 BTC [-]
shinohai: not really
mircea_popescu: punkman well some people still persist in this vc fairytale/pipedream
mircea_popescu: they'll sell their worthless startup for billions and so forth, if only they respect licenses and never say bad things about fat people or something
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3VTC7N2.txt )
shinohai: Nice article BingoBoingo All you need to do now is drop it off in r/darknetmarkets and a few .onion forums, there goes your BIP101 support
mircea_popescu: anyway, the ridiculous pretense that openssl is still even a thing at all.
mircea_popescu: what next, cisco still sells routers ?
deedbot-: accepted: 1
deedbot-: [Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) August 2015 Statement - http://qntra.net/2015/09/qntra-s-qntr-august-2015-statement/
assbot: A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared | Bingo Blog
shinohai: Read that one.
shinohai: Jees, how hard are you being watched?
BingoBoingo: Well, If I know the FBI/Treasury/WTFObolaBBQ is watching why would I even create an opportunity to be framed as a person looking to participate in drug commerce?
shinohai: morning exercise.
mircea_popescu: chick's great, and check out how deeply she bothers the two other insecure ones.
mircea_popescu: jurov : qntra shares added.
deedbot-: [Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) August 2015 Statement - http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-august-2015-statement/
jurov: "SERENISSIMAFAT12" kek
jurov: asciilifeform: your server serves it as "Content-Type text/plain"
mircea_popescu: whassat ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00067086 = 9.8616 BTC [+]
cazalla: shame about those eyebrows but still
assbot: Supreme Court rejects Ky. gay marriage case, forcing Rowan Co. c - WDRB 41 Louisville News ... ( http://bit.ly/1hQrRjC )
shinohai: ^ How about just do your goddamned job, and quit if you love Jesus more?
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258271 <<< is this from just make skinny chicks fat, fat chicks skinny blog?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 06:50:14; BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu Also it looks like Kim kinda went Monero... https://slimgur.com/images/2015/08/31/3a08dc9a038e0c30bb568b48d0f758cd.jpg
punkman: looks pregnant
BingoBoingo: cazalla: No, MTV awards
cazalla: punkman, she is carrying the child in her ass?
punkman: cazalla: probably
cazalla: might be time to make a kanye leaves kim bitbet
deedbot-: accepted: 1
adlai: cazalla: ty for the poem
adlai reminds: web != network
cazalla: adlai, ah don't thank me, i was drunk
cazalla: kim looks fat moreso than pregnant, at least at that angle
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6657 @ 0.00065401 = 4.3537 BTC [-]
jurov: !rated adlai
assbot: You have not rated adlai.
jurov: !rate adlai 2 scalpl rocks!
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/35faf40adbf51a54
jurov: !v assbot:jurov.rate.adlai.2:cb5011365bf06199a6d2cceaba400a8cd7d09136245e39a056356edb7184477f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for adlai with note: scalpl rocks!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00066805 = 8.9185 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00065401 = 12.23 BTC [-]
assbot: 8-year-old Yemeni child dies at hands of 40-year-old husband on wedding night | Al Bawaba ... ( http://bit.ly/1MZHDnE )
davout: pretty disgusting...
shinohai: I'm not certain someone like that can be truly described as "human".
shinohai: Perhaps he could be described as a member of the species whose brain has not yet fully evolved.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39784 @ 0.00065881 = 26.2101 BTC [+] {4}
shinohai: Any bibliophiles here that would care to make a recommendation for my Winter reading list?
punkman: I put "The Three-Body Problem" on my list recently, seems like it got a Hugo award in the meantime
assbot: Amazon.com: The Three-Body Problem (9780765377067): Cixin Liu, Ken Liu: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0f9G1 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00065658 = 7.4522 BTC [-]
shinohai: Haven't read any sci-fi in a while. That will be good.
shinohai: lol?
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 12:16:01; mats: http://www.gliderzz.com I have been seeing these around a lot lately
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00065927 = 41.1384 BTC [+]
assbot: Xerox scanners/photocopiers randomly alter numbers in scanned documents · D. Kriesel ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0m6H4 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00065927 = 1.0219 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10129 @ 0.0006567 = 6.6517 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00065752 = 14.7942 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00065697 = 16.4899 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19650 @ 0.00065184 = 12.8087 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Petraeus: Use Al Qaeda Fighters to Beat ISIS - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1KD2dtP )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu dulap: 'reboot system boot 2.6.32-431.el6.x Tue Sep 1 03:05 - 10:05 (07:00)' << phuctor is dead in the water until this stops.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: ClubOrlov: The Production of Evil ... ( http://bit.ly/1KD4Prw )
asciilifeform: 'The most important thing in such a creation is that it must be horrible. It must be self-evidently horrible. So horrible that everyone—even the idiots—could understand that this—this thing covered in blood, holding a torn-off human leg in its hand—is the only alternative to having the United States of America in complete control of everything. That burning people alive, mass executions, beheadings, sanctioned rapes—
asciilifeform: this is the only alternative to gay marriage, feminism, total surveillance of everyone and extraterritorial American “justice.”'
asciilifeform: 'The western establishment is nurturing ISIS like an attack dog, feeding it, training it to like human blood, in order to then release it and offer people the freedom of choice: you can die in its teeth, or you can hide behind a gate, the keys to which are in the hands of global capitalism. And they will charge you for the entry—but not in money. That is, not just in money. The payment they require is your freedom—your rig
asciilifeform: ht to choose for yourself what is good and what is evil. Anyone who wants to enter has to relinquish this right, and give it to the owner. Because anyone who enters through the gate automatically acquires an owner.'
thestringpuller: wow my article really pissed off reddit: http://coinbrief.net/realcoin-bad-idea/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258318 << bitcoin is keeping it alive, far past expiration date
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 08:27:20; mircea_popescu: anyway, the ridiculous pretense that openssl is still even a thing at all.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:49:55; asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think that a mathematically-rigorous description of openssl (not to even mention boost and bdb) could be achieved in 10,000 years of sweat
asciilifeform: imho it is not actually possible to replace it with ~provably equivalent~ item.
asciilifeform: the best that could be achieved is 'ada ecc lib that provably does what the openssl routines claimed to do'
asciilifeform: but this is pointedly not equivalent to 'do precisely what openssl did, bug for bug.'
asciilifeform: the bug-for-bug compatibility thing ensures that nsa will follow bitcoin (yes, therealbitcoin) around, like an inoperable cancer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00064586 = 9.0097 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56243 @ 0.00064791 = 36.4404 BTC [+] {4}
thestringpuller: http://www.coindesk.com/datt-decentralized-reddit-bitcoin/ << Ryan X. Charles returns with more lulz. How to make reddit better?!? Make it decentralized!!!111
punkman: what could possibly be the target for bug-to-bug compatibility?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00065689 = 2.1349 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: we maybe could have bug-to-bug compatibility between bitcoinds built with rotor, but otherwise when did bitcoind have bug-to-bug compatibility across versions of itself, openssl, bdb, etc
assbot: How a bug in Visual Studio 2015 exposed my source code on GitHub and cost me $6,500 in a few hours ... ( http://bit.ly/1LIaQls )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65000 @ 0.0006554 = 42.601 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78804 @ 0.00064088 = 50.5039 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190816 @ 0.00061551 = 117.4492 BTC [-] {8}
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell jurov any updates on coinbr ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: pete_dushenski: it was working earlier when I looked, I think
pete_dushenski: Hmm I'm still seeing "Status : Internal error" on the mpex receipts
mats: it falls
pete_dushenski: like what is this, 'rule 48' day ?
trinque: aw what happened to that "RALLY!" I heard so much about only days ago?
mod6: circut breaker used 1,200 times: MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE HERE
mats: rice and beans for dinner
trinque: mod6: surely this is just a temporary correction or whatever the fuck the propaganda term is now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.00055185 = 5.8772 BTC [-]
trinque: shinohai: grats on gentoo quest
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.0005552 = 15.268 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: trinque 'technical recession'
pete_dushenski: not a ~real~ recession, those don't happen in the biggest bestest firstest americas
trinque: lol, now technical means "not really a (but yes really a)"
trinque: english... will it blend?
trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-09-2015#1257911 << strikes me how well mass-surveillance fits with American narcissism. Look ma, I'm on reality TV!
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:34:42; asciilifeform: in real world, 'telescreen' is not in every room but in every toilet stall, and people not only do not hide from it but pose for it, and complain about not enough resolution on the ccd.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: /why/ was gpg written to be unlibrarizable?
trinque: maybe so people would be discouraged from automating its use
mats: conspiracy aside, probably just twenty years of glue and paperclips on a design nobody ever expected to be in production
mats: just like bitcoin, huh
ben_vulpes: i'm asking specifically about the conspiracy, mats.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform has referred to rms doing this with i believe a compiler as well, and i would hear the story. 'cawsmic rayz and shitgnome bitrot' isn't the kind of story to scare children into losing sleep over.
trinque: yup, in the case with gcc, I think the idea was that there'd be a barrier to understanding it if it were monolithic
trinque: and therefore a barrier to say ripping off components and making non-free versions
ben_vulpes: so not just technically challenging to call into the c code of but actually deliberately obfuscated?
ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?
ben_vulpes: mein gott.
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] American “social mobility” is really just luck, says data. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/09/01/american-social-mobility-is-really-just-luck-says-data/
trinque: ben_vulpes: also a barrier to poetterings, maybe
trinque: coming in and fixing it
phf: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform has referred to rms doing this with i believe a compiler as well, and i would hear the story << https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/
assbot: Extracting the abstract syntax tree from GCC [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu1Epo )
trinque: "better not make it too good, or people will want to use it"
phf: ccl for example uses a hacked up version of this ffi generator http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/lth/ffigen/, which is in turn a set of intrusive patches against gcc. can be done, but wouldn't go into upstream for political reasons
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu26nF )
trinque: strikes me as exactly the idiocy of "free software"
trinque: and also, utterly ironic to be worrying about how "free software" might be used
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: 'They then use these keys to spawn large numbers of EC2 instances to mine for bitcoins.' << exercise for the reader: calculate how much, e.g., litecoin, could have been mined by the attacker.
ascii_field: (answer: enough for one bus fare in new york)
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258445 << i do not know. but partly for the same reason as gcc, likely.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 15:51:39; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: /why/ was gpg written to be unlibrarizable?
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258453 << obfuscation is not quite it. 'librarifiability' needs a kind of deliberate design discipline, which one may choose to follow - or not
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:42; ben_vulpes: so not just technically challenging to call into the c code of but actually deliberately obfuscated?
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258451 << NO. not to understanding. to separatability.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:05:28; trinque: yup, in the case with gcc, I think the idea was that there'd be a barrier to understanding it if it were monolithic
ascii_field: think of your internal organs. what if they were as easy to steal, cleanly and quietly, as a bicycle ?
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258454 << the only reason why we still have something like open source softs to kick around is that rms did this.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:54; ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?
trinque: I said that too.
trinque: but I do also see a benefit in barriers to poetterings
trinque: large and complex doesn't necessarily mean incoherent, just not friendly to noobs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00054648 = 15.0282 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: specifically, and by design, unfriendly to ~slicers~
ascii_field: little monkeys who want to take the 'good bits', file off the serial numbers, and run with'em
trinque: yep, that makes perfect sense
phf: re gnupg, that was actually in faq for a while, but they shortened the whole answer to "not a chance"
phf: “Can't we have a gpg library?
phf: This has been frequently requested. However, the current viewpoint of the GnuPG maintainers is that this would lead to several security issues and will therefore not be implemented in the foreseeable future. However, for some areas of application gpgme could do the trick.”
ascii_field: also it is a mistake to suppose that this practice is merely for protecting against plagiarism
ascii_field: it is really a weapon against 'embrace & extinguish'
ascii_field: the only weapon.
ascii_field: or at least, the only one with some track record of success.
phf: https://www.gnupg.org/faq/gnupg-faq.html#keep_dreaming 8.21 I’m a programmer and I need a way to call GnuPG internals directly. Is there a library for this? No, nor will there be.
assbot: GnuPG Frequently Asked Questions ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu4cnw )
phf: i like the href name
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258486 << looks very much, again, like the gcc thing
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:43:28; phf: “Can't we have a gpg library?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10083 @ 0.00054477 = 5.4929 BTC [-]
ascii_field: yes, i would ~like~ a gcc library; (and a gpg library.) but i understand the authors' logic re: how this could easily and catastrophically help the enemy
ben_vulpes: for argument, how is this 'slicing' different from what we're doing with bitcoin?
ascii_field: what we are attempting is rather like buying, cleaning, repairing old car; they - pulling off the wheels off someone else's parked machine, as in india
btcdrak wonders where he can short Mike and Gavin's reputation which seem to be going down in flames along with the XT movement.
ascii_field: ^ from my reading, this had a very real chance of destroying the non-pgp contract as even a theatrical production
punkman: ascii_field: I remember reading about it in 2013, stumbled upon it today. nothing inbetween
ascii_field: that suggests it was successfully hushed up.
punkman: "A reader tells me there is a small notice in his copier's admin panel about character substitution. On his device, the “bug” can be avoided by setting compression from “normal” to higher. As a consequence, the issue must have been known by Xerox – so why was nobody telling us?"
punkman: "Rick Dastin, Vice President at Xerox, is the first one actually working at Xerox being able to tell me that character substitutions actually can occur and Xerox knows (in contrast to their support). They also tell me that this is wanted."
punkman: yep it's a feature
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ... and then the whole thing Unhappened.
punkman: "More and more known enterprises reach out ot me these days, asking theirselves if they have a huge problem with their scanned documents. Others are already certain thay actually have a huge problem, some of them in security critical contexts. All have in common that they understandably are afraid of publicity."
punkman: from the comments: "Have there been any lawsuits by companies against Xerox for damages caused by Xerox machines substituting characters in various financial reports or other types of reports. I'm having difficulty getting people to believe your report. "
ascii_field: the xerox thing is brain-meltingly hilarious
punkman: "I work for Xerox and I had to hear this from outside sources like this one. "
ascii_field: i can't help but wonder if someone is getting a red star pinned on his uniform in moscow, for having planted this bug
punkman: heh
ascii_field: (meta-moscow, naturally)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field eh ffs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40004 @ 0.00054659 = 21.8658 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, sent note pointing out that if it happens again that's it for that box. i'm not so convinced it'll do anything. consequently... prep to move it, i guess. got any suggestions of location ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31717 @ 0.00054499 = 17.2854 BTC [-] {4}
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i am ready to move it. but can't think of, yet, a good place to move it ~to~
ascii_field: that wouldn't be ruinously expensive, poorly jurisdictioned, or both.
mircea_popescu: me either.
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> not a ~real~ recession, those don't happen in the biggest bestest firstest americas << Testnet Americans
mircea_popescu: what's your idea of ruinous ?
ascii_field: more than a coin a mo. or close.
mircea_popescu: not the end of the world.
ascii_field: but this is really for mircea_popescu to decide, given as he supplied this item as 'pro bono'
mircea_popescu: yeah i dun see a problem paying 1-1.5 for this. provided the box is decent and the dc unretarded, i'd take it.
ascii_field: i would dare to suggest that the subcontract should include a stipulation that >1 unsanctioned reset per year == termination
mircea_popescu: i prefer the more broad "unretarded"
ascii_field: diametric informed me that his bisp box has not experienced resets...
mircea_popescu: they're right next to each other, amusingly enough.
ascii_field: i think this clinches it
ascii_field: little goblins hang around specifically dulap
mircea_popescu inquires with online webexperts
mircea_popescu: online webexperts assure me that this is a coincidence and also was published before by a scientist somewhere.
BingoBoingo: Dulap probably needs a datacenter with dogs on the floow
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i think you should apologize before making fool of self kthx.
BingoBoingo: *floor
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: i'd settle for a welded 1u with internal 12v battery
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: clearly, aha
mircea_popescu: ascii_field how long's your lease where you're now ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: my earthly carcass ?
ascii_field: ~10 mo
mircea_popescu: wtf's wrong with you.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: traditional lease in this part of the world, for human habitation, is 1y
ascii_field: state of maryland requires vendor to offer 2y
mircea_popescu: i won't even discuss it for less than 3 years.
ascii_field: business leases are typically 3-5
mircea_popescu: anyway, you still got that spiffy ups ?
mircea_popescu: how about you pick out a system, i buy it, and then you run nsa from home.
ascii_field: no static ip
ascii_field: and can't get.
mircea_popescu: it'll be cheaper than paying a coin a month for 10 months i'm sure, and we also get the added advantage that we put all the eggs in your basket
mircea_popescu: heh so get a vps bridge
jurov: ANN: coinbr had to be shut down and will likely stay for several days till i fix the mess.
jurov: ANN: all funds are there, it just got nonsensical answers from mpex
punkman: TARFUN
mircea_popescu: well i never!
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i did think about this, earlier; principal obstacle is the provision of adequate cooling in my sorry hovel. but in the absence of a better idea, will have to resort to this
assbot: GBSDC1 - Data Center ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu9m2I )
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: punkman: l0l!
ascii_field: punkman: yours ?
trinque: alright, when do we buy a cruise ship?
trinque: the scientologists have this figured out
ascii_field: dirigible.
punkman: unfortunately, I don't yet own a datacenter in the Congo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189059 @ 0.00061087 = 115.4905 BTC [+] {15}
mircea_popescu: congo, detroit, what the hell's the difference.
pete_dushenski: jurov thanks for the update :)
ascii_field: big difference
ascii_field: usg won't diddle in the congo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34250 @ 0.00066404 = 22.7434 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: how exactly is congo a sovereign again ?
ascii_field: it isn't. just a sheepskin not worth the tanning
ascii_field: typically
mircea_popescu: you've never been to africa have you.
ascii_field: must confess that i have not.
ascii_field: not itching to, either
mircea_popescu: your idea is amply divergent from reality. do you know WHO is itching to go ?
mircea_popescu: and lord it over the well hung locals ?
mircea_popescu: disfigured 50yo "socialites" from florida.
ascii_field: chinese?
trinque: I hear Christian "missionaries" do very well in Africa
mircea_popescu: place's crawling with "whornorary ambassadors" and whatnot
mircea_popescu: ascii_field why aren't you renting on a llc anyway ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: residential zone
ascii_field: we have banana republic here, recall.
mircea_popescu: so what if it is a residential zone ?!
ascii_field: laws of the monkeys proclaim, must stand upside-down on head on odd-numbered tuesdays
mircea_popescu: i dun get it.
ascii_field: if found to run business in residential zone, will HAve Pr0blemz
mircea_popescu: you don't run any business.
mircea_popescu: your company rents a place from some other company to crimp the ceo (ie, you)
mircea_popescu: perfectly legal.
ascii_field: then have problem with isp:
ascii_field: must buy 'business line'
ascii_field: 4x cost.
mircea_popescu: actually a honest signal to all the twerps involved not to mess around.
ascii_field: long list of this idiocy
ascii_field: and it all costs, costs.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field 4x 40 bucks ? so ? why do you care ? tax deductible.
ascii_field: brb, eating food
trinque: yeah dude, gotta run everything through an llc
trinque: haven't you seen Arrested Development?
mircea_popescu: what's that ?
trinque: ok comedy series on bezzleland's mcmansion industry
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you're a smart kid, do the math. or better yet, have the girl do the math.
mircea_popescu: i'm not about to go all crazy here and suggest you actually hire an expert, you've not been buying bitcoin for long enough yet.
mircea_popescu: yes you pay more for utilities, but not THAT much more and in general actually less than what the tax would have cost you, and you get to deduce the rent too, and it never really ends.
mircea_popescu: the appearance of "costs" is what's known in poker as a trap. to keep the fucktards out. so dun be a fucktard, you can think, there's no rule that you may only think about coding or something. think all through, the same way, everywhere.
mircea_popescu: don't credit newspapers just because they're newspapers when you know in your own field what a shitfest they are ; don't expect the laws etc are anythig but badly written, poorly maintained code full of holes. as reverse-engineerable as anything else.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00066628 = 10.8271 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: http://anarchapulco.com/ jesus in attendance, too
mircea_popescu: which one ?
trinque: I am already offended by this site's loading screen
trinque: which is stuck on 0%
trinque: what is this, 90s flash?
mircea_popescu: "IS THE WORLD'S FIRST AND LARGEST"
trinque: lol
mircea_popescu: oddly enough it loads for me.
trinque: now stuck on 99%
trinque: mmyeah I knew what this site was gonna look like.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck is this "casey research ring my scam bell"
mircea_popescu: ;;google trilema DOUG CASEY
gribble: So the Dollar Vigilante scam ring is going to jail. on Trilema - A blog ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/so-the-dollar-vigilante-scam-ring-is-going-to-jail/>; Doug Casey | Casey Research: <https://www.caseyresearch.com/team/staff/doug-casey>; Totally Incorrect - Doug Casey's New Book - Casey Research: <https://www.caseyresearch.com/ee/legacy/totally-incorrect/?ppref=>
mircea_popescu: when are people going to learn that it doesn't wash.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00066766 = 4.3064 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258346 << if you conceive it in the butt, you carry it in the butt!
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 09:51:37; cazalla: punkman, she is carrying the child in her ass?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00066785 = 28.3836 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 11:07:45; shinohai: Perhaps he could be described as a member of the species whose brain has not yet fully evolved.
mircea_popescu: ""According to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), between 2011 and 2020, more than 140 million girls will become child brides. Furthermore, of the 140 million girls who will marry before the age of 18, 50 million will be under the age of 15." << note how little the agenda has to do with the purely fabricated news story.
mircea_popescu: convenient enough that there's nobody in english speaking places reading the yemenite newspapers about how "child dies at hands of doctor" or similar nonsense.
mircea_popescu: "oh, doctoring is a privileged activity, if some people die that's just not mentioned ; a functioning society is pointedly not a privileged activity, if anyone dies we'll put it in the newspaper".
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is this even.
mircea_popescu: " Most pro age-limit organizations agree that 18 should be the legal age for marriage." << check it out, voting works NOW.
mircea_popescu: the fact that most of the world agrees girls can marry once they can walk, that doesn't count.
mircea_popescu: but if the whorbassadors i ncongo agree the age should be 18, then hey, DEMOCRACY!!11
mircea_popescu: they had a consensus.
assbot: An Open Letter to the Bitcoin Community from the Developers – Bitcoin Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vue54v )
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:38:44; jurov: ANN: coinbr had to be shut down and will likely stay for several days till i fix the mess.
assbot: Midwest corn goes from soaked to choked : Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1VueFz6 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.000665 = 10.0415 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: dat xerox bug.
mircea_popescu is impressed with dkriesel
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258408 << how about first let the usg spend its resources on ultimately useless mining farm neh
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 14:24:44; asciilifeform: imho it is not actually possible to replace it with ~provably equivalent~ item.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258442 << apparently "standard" means "common" in the nca parlance nao.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 15:45:36; trinque: english... will it blend?
mircea_popescu: because it really makes one sleep better at night, to see teh crime fightin' experts couldn't find someone older about 13 or so to write their writings.
trinque: glad to see the PA cousin-fuckers love the rebel flag
trinque: what a shithole of a state.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah, Harrisburg Illinois
trinque: ah my mistake
trinque: says Pennsylvania in the tags
BingoBoingo: Probably because of retarded auto-tagging
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258630 << thing is, there ~is~ upfront cost, and from where exactly am i to come up with it ?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:56:08; mircea_popescu: the appearance of "costs" is what's known in poker as a trap. to keep the fucktards out. so dun be a fucktard, you can think, there's no rule that you may only think about coding or something. think all through, the same way, everywhere.
trinque: registering an llc is like 300 bucks
trinque: depending on the state
ascii_field: trinque: every beggar in town has an llc
ascii_field: i'm talking about the rest of it
trinque: right, and they're taking deductions on goddamn everythig
mircea_popescu: what rest ?
ascii_field: the 'businessized' version of everything
trinque: *thing
ascii_field: isp, additional taxations, accounting
ascii_field: lawyers.
mircea_popescu: alfie stop telling yourself stories and read the book of nature instead.
ascii_field: also mircea_popescu appears to have forgotten about mr stack and his programmatory llc ?
trinque: gonna die anyway, why not act tactically til then?
ascii_field: trinque: this means what ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that was entirely a different story. he was trying to organise his coding income through a llc.
trinque: take every deduction you can, and so on.
mircea_popescu: you are trying to organise your ~expenditure~
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: precisely!
mircea_popescu: not precisely at all.
trinque: your side projects are this llc. not your job
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if i did not put my income through it, then it is a plain tax shelter and this lasts precisely five seconds if anyone so much as farts on it
ascii_field: where i live, at my weight class.
trinque: dude nobody says your side business has to be profitable
trinque: there wouldn't be any if that were the case.
mircea_popescu: im telling you, whether you'll like it or not : this conversation is to me indistinguishable from conversation with blondy who has decided "she doesn't have a math head". meanwhile she has exceptionally keen eye for shoes, to a degree most math heads could not keep up.
ascii_field: trinque: understand what an llc without a dime of income or so much as threatening to earn any, looks like ?
mircea_popescu: you're the fucking same thing in a different color scheme already!
mircea_popescu: the same head that yields beautiful code also yields legal arguments, yo!
ascii_field: consider that i actually operate an llc (with partner) since '10, and not speaking entirely from my arse
trinque: sure, you're not the only one.
mircea_popescu: reality isn't like, you pick if to be an archer or a tank like fucking wow.
trinque: who said "not a dime"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23410 @ 0.00066979 = 15.6798 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: no but reality means that if i have to spend two weeks appearing in a courtroom, for whatever reason, i starve.
trinque: but if you buy computers, it's an expense. pipe to house? expense.
trinque: etc
mircea_popescu: i'll tell you what it looks like : FUCKING COINBASE.
mircea_popescu: and airbnb and you fucking name it.,
mircea_popescu: bejesus.,
mircea_popescu: WHY do you think they keep doing those, huh ?
ascii_field: coinbase is blessed by his lizard majesty.
ascii_field: ditto airbnob
mircea_popescu: they're exactly your stage +2. "since we gotta have all these llcs anyway, hopw about we derp more"
ascii_field: quod licet jovis...
mircea_popescu: if this isn't proof that people pick their life, nothing is.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3140 @ 0.00067286 = 2.1128 BTC [+]
mike_c: mod6, ben_vulpes: does the foundation have any ideological opinions on something like trac?
trinque: would not interface with V for one
mike_c: hm. I was thinking for issue tracking.
mircea_popescu: hes got to use something to make the graphs
ascii_field: trac iirc is a www-based bug ticketing thing ?
trinque: yep
mike_c: yeah. like bugzilla but newer with bells.
mike_c: i don't care a whit for it specifically, more for some kind of issue tracking generally.
mike_c: trilema job board only goes so far.
mircea_popescu: not very far at that.
trinque: betcha not a single person did this right either, as with VCS
mircea_popescu is still waiting for someone to murder get a freelancer with
mircea_popescu: trinque no, the market is an utter shitmess.
ascii_field: i recall this from conf2 ?
trinque: thing about trac is it's exactly this "cram it all into our project" mentality
mike_c: you know, ascii says 'someone should add file history to V' and I think, yeah, that is much needed and I could bang it out quickly
mircea_popescu: i've been having my eye on this yeah
mike_c: and etc., etc.
trinque: I could see V being applied to this problem too
trinque: where proposals are signed
ascii_field: mike_c: please don't hesitate to experiment with 'v'
mircea_popescu: trinque not sure why you'd need chaining etc
mike_c: I will, but scattered todo lists in various places, feels like it needs a little project management.
phf: there lies the road to hell
trinque: mircea_popescu: maybe not; thought was you patch in new textfiles into some directory structure
trinque: and perhaps my idea extends yours
mike_c: phf: like most things, not if done well
trinque: it's just V-wiki
trinque: and at that, maybe it's a docs folder in the actual bitcoind project
phf: mike_c: "dianetics is not wrong, it's just that you're failing at apply it", aha ;)
mike_c: having a provable and validated package of code is important enough to have something like V. not sure tracking bugs needs to be so rigorous
ascii_field: i dare say this may be an example of the kind of thing one doesn't actually need unless already in a state of dire sin
mike_c: what, managaing a todo list?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62383 @ 0.000665 = 41.4847 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: not as such
ascii_field: but systems like 'trac'
trinque: hopefully V becomes an example of how problems ought to be approached around here.
trinque: damned precise approach to a single problem
trinque: trac's way in the other direction
ascii_field: 'v' is for small groups of t3rr0r1stz who all quasi-know each other and share a wot
ascii_field: people like this imho do not need mechanized 'bug tracking' machinery
ascii_field: in fact, look at the people who ~do~ appear to need it. how much it helps them ?
mike_c: it helps. just because idiots use it doesn't mean it's not helpful.
mike_c: here's the problem - there are ~6 people who may work on V
mircea_popescu: trinque that spirit is right, but it can't become a "vchain technologee in your fridge" thing
mike_c: there are ~10 things that could/should be done
mircea_popescu: ascii_field who says v is for that ?
mats: i am curious to know when 'yi yi zhi yi' progresses to 'yi fa yi yi
mike_c: who keeps track of who claims what?
mircea_popescu: no, v is the only correct solution to "windows update" problem.
mircea_popescu: ie, a mega system deployed by billions of people in a million different nooks and crannies
mircea_popescu: that's what v's for.
mircea_popescu: mike_c claim ? how you mean ?
ascii_field: mats: translation?
mike_c: just like someone claims something on your job board and you put their name on it
mircea_popescu: how about "people who don't know each other aren't working on the same software, no matter what they might think"
mike_c: so 3 out of the 6 people don't run off and do the same thing
mircea_popescu: why not ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu has it
trinque: might not be a bad thing that they do all duplicate effort
trinque: say 3/4 suck
mircea_popescu: either they know each other so no problem, or they don't and so no problem space.
mike_c: but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"
mircea_popescu: mike_c understand, there's no promise that V will result in even similar bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact all the bitcoin-copy altcoins could just as well have run on v
mircea_popescu: all of them.
mircea_popescu: "use this signset to package ltc ; use this signset to package rippe" etc
mircea_popescu: mike_c my definition of "know each other" is, "they can navigate the who's doing what maze". that's the bar.
mike_c: and the list of "what needs to be done"?
mircea_popescu: fits in head
mike_c: mhm. recite the todo list for V :D
trinque: or blog it
mircea_popescu: (that list MUST be kept. in one head, or a collection of heads approximable to one head.
trinque: not the list, but say you want to explain why you did something
mircea_popescu: if it is not, you will have rebuilt washington dc. you don't want that. dead 8yo girls from cunt explosion is much better.)
trinque: actually ML, not blog
phf: mike_c: there's a recent openbsd presentation that argues against claiming. their point is that the problem of duplicate effort is a lot rarer then lock grabs. and i must add duplicate effort always results in increased understanding if both solutions are analyzed
mike_c: locks only happen with mediocre and lower workers
mircea_popescu: phf the way "claiming" has to date worked in b-a has been as a gubernatorial function, mostly me encouraging/discouraging people from certain projects.
mike_c: who will not suffer wot penalty for not doing what they claimed
mircea_popescu: moderate success rate on former, low on later, soft sort of thing anyway.
mircea_popescu: and i think it's the only way to go.
mircea_popescu: in any case the concept of "democratic self management" is about as idiotic as it gets. like a one-legged chair.
mike_c: I for instance have worked things to 75% completion before locking to avoid stalling something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9327 @ 0.0006587 = 6.1437 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
jurov: just to remind, i had an offer from my wot for colo but must take whole half of cage for ~3 coins/mo
jurov: if bisp is interested
ascii_field: jurov: colo where ?
jurov: here in slovakia
mircea_popescu: mike_c incidentally the reason i won't recite a todo list for v (and deleted alf's proposed list) is specifically because we don't even understand yet fully its implication. bitcoin-like.
phf: !
mats: ascii_field: translates loosely to '[learning] the way of the barbarians to control barbarians'
mircea_popescu: which is how you end up with disputes like the one re scope above ( http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258788 )
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:08:42; mircea_popescu: no, v is the only correct solution to "windows update" problem.
ascii_field: mats: yi yi [verb] yi ?
jurov: here i would be able to manage the hardware with my own hands
ascii_field: mats: and it always bothered me that the tonality is not attached to the pinyinization
ascii_field: (or is it normally, somehow?)
mircea_popescu: you can do tone ?
mike_c: perhaps I see it too simply. It is the way for me to get source code from people I designate as trusted.
mircea_popescu: mike_c so it is.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i did most of a linguistics degree, can do certain things
mats: it is attached, my keyboard isn't setup: the three accents are associated with three of the four tones in pinyin
mats: 'zhi': govern
mircea_popescu sorely regrets his chinese disability.
mircea_popescu: jurov half a cage is what, 4u ?
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:26:47; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once thought about placing antecedent hashes in patch headers
phf: mircea_popescu: i've come to appreciate the approach from observing it. one person who shapes the entire thing, and everyone else works with the given directions or else operates fully autonomously. people can still form subgroups for short term goals, but without imposing structure on the rest. etc. etc.
mats: 'yǐ yí zhì yí' is the pinyin
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 03:55:05; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 22:36:03; jurov: I personally got only an offer to share a rack with 4x100MBit(can be upgraded to giga) and 4xIPv4 for 500 euro/mo
phf: observing it here that is
jurov: iirc was 8u
ascii_field: jurov: and if it starts rebooting ?
jurov: then i can irl negrate people
assbot: WATCH: Florida pastor says women should greet their husbands looking ‘spiffed up’ with a hot meal waiting ... ( http://bit.ly/1fTBaNP )
jurov: what more do you want?
mike_c: trac is opensource. I bet I could integrate V.
jurov: brb
ascii_field: mike_c: the beauty of 'v' is that no server, as such, is needed
ascii_field: just a place to park the latest stuff
ascii_field: and if it is ever tampered in any way, becomes immediately apparent to everyone.
ascii_field: would this be true of a hypothetical 'bugtracker with v' ?
mike_c: Surely. But integrating V could allow for "this patch solved this problem"
mike_c: patches are signed, so I don't see why tampering wouldn't be evident.
ascii_field: and now we have unsigned text and a centralized place to pwn and track activity
mike_c: why unsigned?
ascii_field: because what, you will sign every comment? every stateful change, button click ?
mike_c: No, just every patch. I'll fiddle with it and see if anything interesting happens.
mike_c: ah, but i see your point. mailing list is signed, this wouldn't be.
ascii_field: precisely.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:21:09; mircea_popescu: jurov half a cage is what, 4u ?
mike_c: perhaps then less is more. just a todo-list with open/closed and claimed/unclaimed. communication all stays on mailing list
phf: mike_c: do you have a todo list for bitcoind written somewhere? or for v?
ascii_field: phf: the one for 'v' can be found in my original posting of it on the ml
mike_c: no, neither does anyone else.
mike_c: ascii_field; but it's out of date and incomplete
ascii_field: and mike_c is right, it is not entirely current.
ascii_field: however, i am not convinced that merely following the conversation here is not bugtracky enough
ascii_field: it was plainly not enough to reconstruct patch flow, yes
ascii_field: but for 'who wants to do what', it ought to suffice imho
mike_c: I think we may be close to the line.
mike_c: if not already over
ascii_field: mike_c: can you think of a time when two+ people ended up doing the same things?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3973 @ 0.00067118 = 2.6666 BTC [+]
ascii_field: or, alternatively, failing to do anything on account of waiting
mike_c: But I agree with your point about avoiding a lot of unsigned commentary
mike_c: ascii_field: the locking thing is not the biggest thing to me, more the accurate list of things that could/should be done.
mike_c: but to answer your question, yes.
phf: mike_c: ah but it's not true that nobody has those lists. ascii has one, i'm sure does mp, mod6 and ben_vulpes. i keep one too from reading the logs in a text file
mircea_popescu: jurov so it would be ~600 bucks for 8u of space, then hire you to manage it and then buy the actual machines. as an upside you actually have physical access and will lock down the boxes ?
phf: i think at issue is not really collision, but getting someone else to construct a todo list for you..
mike_c: I don't think that issue is phrased quite right. I'm not looking to get someone else to do anything.
mircea_popescu: phf more layers to it but as a first approximation yea
mike_c: !gettrust phf
assbot: Trust relationship from user mike_c to user phf: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 3 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mike_c&to=phf | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/phf/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8466 @ 0.00065577 = 5.5517 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: another very important chunk of the story is the fallout from the "causes not purposes" philosophy. all b-a software exists because, not for, and this is HOW we end up with things like "well we now have this v-jewel, what's it for ?"
mircea_popescu: something that never happens ailleurs.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and a traditional wife cooks. what's your point.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: ah point is to explain that 'cage' is a kind of standard term, like 'barrel' in petro industry
ascii_field: for anyone who did not know
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> or, alternatively, failing to do anything on account of waiting << i could give some examples of this, but of dubious actual substance.
ascii_field: let's have example ?
mircea_popescu: barrel is two and a half gallons now.
ascii_field: even if tenuous
ascii_field: l0lwat
mircea_popescu: o you didn't know ? grew upwards in larger size from previous.
assbot: 40 rods per hogshead in mpg - Wolfram|Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1fTDc0z )
ascii_field: 'in my days we got forty rods to the hog's head and we loved it!!'
mircea_popescu: anyway, iirc the french kid that was going to do one of the versions of the job board thing got upset and left in part because iho he was waitinfg for me.
ascii_field: pankkake ?
ascii_field: (or was it pankakke ?)
mircea_popescu: am i the only one getting spam from people trying to push blog-on-app "solutions" ?
mircea_popescu: that's fucking exactly what trilema needs, an annoying dinger on people's phones ffs.
jurov: mircea_popescu: yes i will ask about the locking and exact dimensions. also will need someone to make the shopping list and plan,
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: jurov but to be perfectly clear, this is a deal where you physically have access to the boxes in question and nobody else touches them
jurov: since i planned a rack onyl once so far, not something i'm proud of
ascii_field: jurov: if this were me, and here in this town, i would set up the batteries, tamper sensors, mains loggers, camera...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26115 @ 0.00065489 = 17.1025 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_field: but it is impractical to have it here
jurov: yes, i understand. if it can be locked only together with other boxen, will say so
ascii_field: jurov: may be worth asking if your cage can be an actual locking sarcophagus
mircea_popescu: jurov in general, worth asking to get very clear answers because in principle i would be interested, but i have to clearly know what i'm interested in.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29011 @ 0.00064788 = 18.7956 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66135 @ 0.00064974 = 42.9706 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: !up indiancandy1
jurov: ofc will ask everything
jurov: but i suspect the features you ask and the price will diverge considerably :(
jurov: also, what if lizards reboot the machine remotely with magic packets?
jurov: what was the proximate cause ?
kakobrekla checks last bitbet comments and zomgwtfisthatdudethinking
ascii_field: jurov: kinda why i want to place arbitrary hardware of my own making in there
ben_vulpes: what's new, indiancandy1?
ascii_field: let them magicpacket my fpga.
mike_c: kakobrekla: it's not even right..
mike_c: oh, nvm, those are payouts
mike_c: I guess he trusts you not to muck with his comment more than to get the payments right :)
jurov: ascii_field: you relish in impossible requirements, don't you? i just that ... palpable improvement over some box no one in the wot ever saw, is possible
ascii_field: jurov: colo is impossible now ?
ascii_field: expensive, yes
ascii_field: but impossible ?
jurov: yes i meant at that price
ascii_field: now price - possibly
jurov: and the juxtaposition of you doing it all personally and it being not in the north america
ascii_field: certainly 2btc doesn't buy so much as a parking space here where ~i~ live
ascii_field: jurov: well yes, i will not be doing it personally, unfortunately
ascii_field: so much of what imho needs to be done, cannot be done.
thestringpuller: ascii_field: so much of what imho needs to be done, cannot be done. << doesn't this technically make it impossible?
mircea_popescu: jurov im not interested in what may happen as much as im interested in taking specific reasonable measures.
thestringpuller: with the circumstances
mircea_popescu: and what exactly diverge you mean ? someone offered you half a rack for 500 except if you wish to touch it it's 19500 ?
jurov: no
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no you know, he's saved it there because that way, if we do something fishy, the record will be left behind.
mircea_popescu: on our own site. in the comments section.
mircea_popescu: weblogic.
jurov: if it turns out it's not possible to have lockable sub-compartment and must have whole vage for 1000 euro
jurov: *cage for
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: jurov that'd be the least of my concerns.
jurov: okay. another concern would be?
mircea_popescu: i'm spending a lot more than 1k / mo on hosting. in fact i spend more on servers living space than on women living space, for my sins ;/
mircea_popescu: just find out if you can put your hands on it and figure out if you want to.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:00:06; mats: conspiracy aside, probably just twenty years of glue and paperclips on a design nobody ever expected to be in production
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258454 << you don't understand, it's fine when we do it. and the people we like. and poettering.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:54; ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?
mircea_popescu: "open source people" used to mean something, like "burning man attendant" used to mean something. now it means something else.
mircea_popescu: anyway, basically stallman saw the problem of "if i release bitcoin then the twerps will get it and pretend to be using it, and then pretend to be improving on it and soon enough it will be indistinguishable from the sort of shit that it was made to kill. because the source of the shit drowning us is neither god nor the aliens nor unforseen circumstances - it's the lesser apes we insist on calling humans for no reason."
mircea_popescu: and his solution to it was a sort of "so i'll release just the tip"
mircea_popescu: because that works now, and such nonsense counts as strategic design.
ascii_field: not only that, but rms is not mircea_popescu and the thieves would cry 'stop thief', sue inventor for using own item, and win.
mircea_popescu: doesn't matter who one is, bad strat is bad strat.
mats: because search is broken i am having trouble discovering the revocation thread. anyone have a link, or would mind explaining implications for e.g. keyserver?
mircea_popescu: what revocation ?
mats: key revocation
mircea_popescu: explain what this means.
assbot: Logged on 15-05-2015 03:34:04; assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 21:44:05; ascii_field: i'm kinda curious why mircea_popescu considers a new key signed with a previous key to not be a logical continuation of the same identity. (is it because of the impossibility of hard-guaranteed revocation, as discussed in previous thread?)
mircea_popescu: the concept as intuited by gpg users is meaningless.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14343 @ 0.000665 = 9.5381 BTC [+]
mats: so, practically, i shouldn't even bother handling revocation signatures?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 20:19:54; mircea_popescu: i'm spending a lot more than 1k / mo on hosting. in fact i spend more on servers living space than on women living space, for my sins ;/
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't fault you for ignoring them. i would fault you for "handling" an undefined concept in a weird way.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla on occasion they are.
kakobrekla: when the phuctor is down i guess.
ascii_field: iirc what mircea_popescu painstakingly explained in that old thread is that there is not, of course, a magical incantation which makes a 'revoked' key stop working
ascii_field: kakobrekla: it is presently not working other than for the display of old results. and will not work again until it gets 6+ weeks of uninterrupted mains current.
mircea_popescu: o.O that bad ?!
kakobrekla: there is too many or to few womenz in ams.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes, that bad
ascii_field: and if on 6wk - 1minute it resets, count again.
mircea_popescu: i thought it was a coupla weeks.
ascii_field: my rough calculation is this.
mircea_popescu: lol well this will need a redesign then.
mircea_popescu: too damned vulnerable.
ascii_field: any redesign of that thing means rewrite 100%
kakobrekla: yeah you need aws
ascii_field: because 1st step non-negotiably is to stop using sqlite.
ascii_field: kakobrekla: laugh, but that's where it lived for 1st year and a half
kakobrekla: i know!
mircea_popescu: stop using whatever it takes, but the idea is, if a power outage a season means it does no useful work worth the mention, we can't have it. because we no longer live in the world of our forefathers, where shit worked. even obama gets power interrupted once a year.
kakobrekla: once a year ends up at 90% utilization which is acceptable, no ?
ascii_field: thing is,
ascii_field: if i can put a 12v lead-acid cell in the 1u colo,
ascii_field: no interruptions
ascii_field: supposing the place is actually a data center and has ~some~ backup power
ascii_field: rather than multi-hour outages
mircea_popescu: if multi hour outages are what you need, multi hour outages are what you'll get.
mircea_popescu: software that's more friable than the hardware is a bad idea.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: even with optimal design, it can save the product of moduli perhaps once per 24h
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 6/52
gribble: 0.115384615385
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla not even a single nine.
ascii_field: so every outage is 24h of lost cycles.
ascii_field: there is NO WAY to save it after every multiplication!
mircea_popescu: ascii_field 24 hours is within range. even, maybe, a week.
mircea_popescu: six weeks is insanity.
ascii_field: so they will pull power every day
mircea_popescu: take it out of weeks and into days.
mircea_popescu: this i wish to see.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu did say, 'if you need x hour outages you will get'
mircea_popescu: that, yes.
ascii_field: we already established that it is not affecting diametric's machine
mircea_popescu: why are you arguing with me!
ascii_field: so what, monkey tasked with pulling out my mains cord, his arms will get tired?
ascii_field: from pulling every hour ?
mircea_popescu: yeah. maybe i manage to shoot one.
mircea_popescu: somehow this reminded me of bofh
ascii_field: 'solar flares!'
funkenstein_: phuctor@home
ascii_field: ... he pulled new leaf from Excuse Calendar
ascii_field: funkenstein_: it is serial process
ascii_field: so no at home.
mircea_popescu: "I recognize that you don't want me to "change the subject" to refactoring, but I don't see this as a change of subject."
mircea_popescu: dude what the fuck is wrong with these people.
ascii_field: oh certainly i must rewrite it
mircea_popescu: "i will now say some words about your position after which we disregard it and replace it with mine. MAGIC!!1"
ascii_field: but do not have the time, and don't know when i will.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field was quoting from a summary of that ast debate someone linked.
ascii_field: ah lol
mircea_popescu: ascii_field can't it be made to dump the product to disk along with some state every however long ? once a day ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes. and nothing whatsoever can happen when it dumps
mircea_popescu: a hack, obviously
mircea_popescu: no problem there.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: this, too, means rewriting a good chunk of the thing.
ascii_field: and will happen.
ascii_field: at some point.
ascii_field: probably i ought to explain why.
mircea_popescu: "I was amazed that they were able to persuade RMS not to block the conversion to C++, and as the article points out, five years of plugins have not led to disaster;"
mircea_popescu: orly ? they have shown this ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34185 @ 0.000665 = 22.733 BTC [+]
ascii_field: right now the factorizer and the web crud are entirely separate programs
mircea_popescu: to whom, and where the fuck was he looking
ascii_field: which do not communicate except via sharing a db.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field so that db, can't it be snapshotted by a third thing ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not without stopping all of it
mircea_popescu: the design as described is good, and it should be db-replicated
mircea_popescu: ascii_field go in as root, lock the db, dump it, unlock it.
mircea_popescu: what, someone'll complain ?
assbot: Recession confirmed as Canada's GDP shrank in 2nd quarter - Business - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJU4TS )
ascii_field: mno, what happens is that the result is not consistent.
ascii_field: sqlite is a steaming pile of shit.
mircea_popescu: mats lucky that the us was corrected up from the previous corection of 4.5
mircea_popescu: to 9.18 or w/e
mircea_popescu: ascii_field it can't be locked ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not effectively. recall, the two processes do not know about one another.
mircea_popescu: this is what db locks are for.
ascii_field: it was an ultra-minimal design, that cannot be changed at all without making 25x more complicated.
ascii_field: afaik.
mircea_popescu: what does your factorizer do if the db returns "wait" or w/e it returns if a lock's active
mircea_popescu: heck, the db shouldn't even complain, just hold the data
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44500 @ 0.000665 = 29.5925 BTC [+]
jurov: you swear on bitcoind's bdb hardwired in, yet you apparently did the same with phuctor and sqlite? O.o
jurov: if it's sane python+sql, maybe two lines
ascii_field: jurov: appreciate, the thing was written in a coupla hours.
ascii_field: jurov: and i don't ~do~ www
jurov: i appreciate very much. but can't readily imagine this situation
mircea_popescu: iirc the code was release no ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the non-www part, yes
mircea_popescu: released*
mircea_popescu: db calls and all ?
ascii_field: 1sec..
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me this;d be a fine project for a young gent. "here's this code alf himself wrote (in two hours). here's the problem. fix it without breaking anyhing!"
mircea_popescu: it can go straighht to ml, and it can be an early 2nd simpler project to handle via V
ascii_field: thing is, it also needs to be rebuilt as discussed before, where it stores ~known factors of any given modulus~ in the db
ascii_field: rather than flagging 'phuctored moduli'
mircea_popescu: one thing at a time neh ?
ascii_field: potentially folks could even submit 'i know a factor for modulus m!' into a box somewhere, regardless of why
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: some things cannot be retrofitted. this is one of them.
mircea_popescu: trinque you wanna derp with this db ?
ascii_field: and it is the only way of having moduli be retestable without temporarily unphuctoring them
ascii_field: phuctor is one of those things that is mechanically deadly simple on paper but very, very easy to fuck up irrevocably in practice
ascii_field: consider, flip so much as one bit in the product
ascii_field: and it is garbage.
jurov: that make it even more important to snapshot it
ascii_field: jurov: problem is that it takes a while to - reliably - save or load a GB.
ascii_field: and while it happens no multiplication can take place.
mircea_popescu: that "a while" is not six weeks.
mircea_popescu: during which we just established jack shit's taking place.
ascii_field: well, yes. but in 6 wks product is reliably regenerated
mircea_popescu: i don't care about the site being down an hour a day, to save its guts.
mircea_popescu: i do care about airing air for the next two months.
ascii_field: (incidentally, it ~is~ possible to do this faster by splitting multiplications into a tree and distributing between machines. but this is considerably more moving part than what we have now, and quite enough for ph.d. thesis)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is very much right that the thing ought to save itself nightly. but this in fact requires rewrite.
ascii_field: of more or less whole thing.
ascii_field: also would be nice to NOT ignore the 5% or so of sks keys that have utf8-isms in'em
ascii_field: but this requires not only rewrite but the remaking of pgpdump lib !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00067349 = 16.8036 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Online Backup API. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJWxNV )
punkman: ascii_field: which part in werker takes 6 weeks?
ascii_field: gen_prod.
assbot: KSAT.COM EXCLUSIVE: Unedited video of fatal deputy-involved... ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJWVMu )
ascii_field: ^ fella shot by cop after surrendering, on camera
ascii_field: with hands up
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: we might be nearing mircea_popescu's magic 3% figure...
ascii_field: and then they drag the body..
thestringpuller: this is like some gta stuff
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00067506 = 17.3153 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: ascii_field: this is why you avoid leaving the house huh?
thestringpuller: damn d00d isn't even black...
ascii_field: thestringpuller: i only ~wish~ i could avoid leaving house
ascii_field: but at any rate, can get firing squad wherever
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00068063 = 16.9137 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: doesn't have to be at home.
ascii_field: i personally would not be very astonished to end up killed in some variation on this theme.
mats: jurov: plz privmsg when coinbr returns from maintenance mode
mats: in the future some prior notification would be nice so i could shift into neutral
jurov: well, you said yourself you had some orders in error state
mats: not me
jurov: what other notification do you need?
mats: not today, anyway
jurov: if i had to stop it every time there's unexpected balance discrepance, that would be several times per day
mats: this is not reassuring
jurov: did you read my mpex manual? it's explained there
jurov: and i complained numerous times here, too
jurov: also, i suspect i recently started using more proxies, which may have exacerbated the problem.. it's arduous to research, not done yet
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258483 << which is pretty much all of america, sadly.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:42:32; ascii_field: little monkeys who want to take the 'good bits', file off the serial numbers, and run with'em
mircea_popescu: which is why the design eventually failed.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: or to quote the webexperts in derpxertises, "The elephant in the room is that GCC and emacs aren't competing against proprietary compilers so much as they are against LLVM and clang. Whichever one has better features and support for programming is going to win mindshare and without mindshare you are dead. This is compounded by the fact that there are several major corporations helping LLVM along so you need steady cont
mircea_popescu: ributions and use just to stay even with them."
assbot: Logged on 15-02-2015 21:43:42; asciilifeform: 'but Richard is seemingly frightened about the compiler competition from LLVM that is out under a permissive free software license.' << fud artist lies through his teeth. rms is not 'frightened of competition under permissive licenses', but is pointing out that organized attack by shitgnomes flying (as always) flags of convenience, is under way.
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 22:07:54; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the llvm thing, prior to career as apple crud, had a previous life as a darling plaything of u.s. 'comp sci' academitardia
assbot: Richard Stallman - Re: clang vs free software ... ( http://bit.ly/1L2e9RN )
mircea_popescu: Posted Jan 25, 2015 13:39 UTC (Sun) by dakas (guest, #88146) [Link]
mircea_popescu: Uh, Eric Raymond explicitly created the "Open Source" label exactly to appeal to industry players who considered bothering with principles suspicious. So yes, Open Source is for people without principles. That's not Stallman's pitch, but an explicit design goal of the Open Source agenda. To replace the appeal to principles, a bunch of technical and marketing criteria are propounded.
mircea_popescu: The dearth of actually successful Open Source companies (where Open Source is part of a permanent rather than an exit strategy) makes it pretty clear that this "realistic" advertising strategy is not actually founded in much realism.
mircea_popescu: guy has a point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00068214 = 12.4832 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: I am prepping to move cross-country, so I can't make hard commitments re: time this week or next; however I don't mind taking a look at phuctor's db use at all.
mircea_popescu: and perhaps the best illustration in history of what ~exactly~ "flag of convenience" means.
mircea_popescu: "hey, some 8 yo might have died for some reason - wouldn't you like this list of washington apointees to decide who can marry in pakistan and when and wqhy ?"
ascii_field: typical human approach to orcraft
mircea_popescu: also what "stealing the stealing" is. check out gcc, and it's "mindshare". because that's what we're calling reddit votes now.
mircea_popescu: im kinda surprised we're not hearing all about faux-bitcoin "mindshare".
mircea_popescu: in other news, "you charging passerbys for the sexual use of your wife is very bad because she'll lose mindshare. should give her away for free, and then raise the children. experts agree!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00067906 = 7.3338 BTC [-]
trinque: didn't see it in logs, might've already been treated
trinque: gonna need a hashtag for this shit; it's trending
ascii_field: trinque: usg will happily carpetbomb own subjects if it needs to.
mircea_popescu: and you know this how.
ascii_field: hypothesis.
trinque: I think it will behave ever more incoherently until it shakes apart entirely
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00068365 = 11.2337 BTC [+]
ascii_field: i mean, it was happily spreading microbes in own cities, as early as '60s
ascii_field: 'for test'
ascii_field: 'harmless'
trinque: sure wasn't that in california somewhere (among others probably)
ascii_field: iirc san fran.
mircea_popescu: these are kinda different.
mircea_popescu: the important point about bombs is not the destruction. it's that they are loud and enforce in the recipient a taste of his own powerlessness.
mircea_popescu: i think i said it before, but anyway : the important thing about a beating isn't the actual beating, but the part that forces the recipient to internalise he has no recourse.
mircea_popescu: if you go kloink some dude on the street upside the head, he'll just think himself mistreated, go look for places to complain - the police station, the church, wherever.
mircea_popescu: he'll fantasize about being made whole, all that nonsense.
mircea_popescu: when you beat a slave, it is educative because she knows that this is strictly reality, and the only way out is internalised change.
mircea_popescu: so no, microbes can not be used as substitute for your original " usg will happily carpetbomb own subjects if it needs to." specifically because that one chief ingredient is missing.
trinque: the microbes were tested on people because they wanted to know the results
mircea_popescu: (this is also why the agreement wass in england that if hitler had in fact the resources and the will to continue bombing for six weeks he'd have won the war with britain.
trinque: speaks to maybe their sense of impunity but nothing else
mircea_popescu: not because "britain would have bene destroyed" per se.)
mircea_popescu: trinque note that, importantly, you also need a particular sort of helpless population. the afghani have been bombed pretty much constantly since the 70s, did nothing.
trinque: you need cowards.
mircea_popescu: not exactly cowards. you need jwz's.
mircea_popescu: people who've decided "they just want to X".
trinque: whatever he is, a worm
mircea_popescu: a civilised man!
trinque clears his throat
trinque: my mistake!
mircea_popescu: polite and not fucking his secretary.
trinque: haha
pete_dushenski: one who 'doesn't say things like that'
mircea_popescu: because it isn't necessary!
pete_dushenski: and 'doesn't bang her like that' idem
mircea_popescu: or called for! or fair to the black people!
phf: asciilifeform: what about something like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/154647, put a flag on sighup, put a couple of checks (i'm not sure if my guess as far as mainloop is correct) for the flag, do a stop the world snapshot. can have it running normally, periodically send kill -HUP ...
trinque: because civilization is something which happens in the absence-of, not something which happened due to some particular mechanism of conditioning
trinque: you just prevent all the meanies from being mean, and then wealth and empire emerges
trinque: speaking of bombing, when does the Fed start buying stocks directly
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258501 << you're nine months old to that party. what reputation ?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:57:22; *: btcdrak wonders where he can short Mike and Gavin's reputation which seem to be going down in flames along with the XT movement.
btcdrak: bwahahahaha
mircea_popescu: phf not a half bad idea
mircea_popescu: trinque the fed mostly owns privately issued paper anyway. mostly bond bundles, but most of them are tied to stocks (via banks) so in point of fact the fed owns atm ~118-122% or so of the entire us economy
trinque: ah, then I'm way behind
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 53100 @ 0.00038573 = 20.4823 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258516 << it does have a very 1970s spy flick air to it doesn't it.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:16:07; ascii_field: i can't help but wonder if someone is getting a red star pinned on his uniform in moscow, for having planted this bug
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258703 << he fought the law, foolishly, and the law won. as it does.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 18:50:51; ascii_field: also mircea_popescu appears to have forgotten about mr stack and his programmatory llc ?
ben_vulpes: he also fought entrenched interests, and they won. as they do.
mircea_popescu: he also isn't germane.
deedbot-: accepted: 1
deedbot-: accepted: 1
jurov: mircea's entrepreneur experience in 90's romania is germane to everything
jurov: here, too, practically gave up on income tax avoidance to this day
jurov: the govt.. and try make that up on VAT
jurov: and (completely lawful) nonrecognition of business expenses happens, too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.0006905 = 15.0874 BTC [+]
trinque: tax avoidance is a foolish move if you're dealing in their currency
trinque: why take the risk?
trinque: and if you're not, good job!
trinque: well, I should say, it is a move you ought to be prepared to back up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14806 @ 0.00068314 = 10.1146 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258779 << i'm aware of "tx dumper" as a TODO item that alf gives a shit about and that's more or less all. everything else is in his and mircea_popescu's heads.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:07:20; ascii_field: people like this imho do not need mechanized 'bug tracking' machinery
ben_vulpes: mod6 probably has his own as well.
hanbot: getting ready to implement something ben_vulpes?
ben_vulpes: since when have i implemented anything, hanbot?!
hanbot: todo list!
hanbot: it's a full day just following along the ml, honestly.
ben_vulpes: "every software development company eventually ends up writing their own issue tracker, time tracker, and billing system."
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258801 << you and i i think are coming at this from the wrong angle.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:10:19; mike_c: but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"
ben_vulpes: work on this thing cannot be marshalled. must be self-organized, by the selves so involved.
ben_vulpes: hanbot: i once cooked up a wiki page on the topic. has since languished, rotted, died.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4744 @ 0.00067592 = 3.2066 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259238 << entirely impractical. 1) IT TAKES FOREVER 2) nothing can happen while it happens!
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:21:22; phf: asciilifeform: what about something like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/154647, put a flag on sighup, put a couple of checks (i'm not sure if my guess as far as mainloop is correct) for the flag, do a stop the world snapshot. can have it running normally, periodically send kill -HUP ...
asciilifeform: phf: or, if this is only for period snapshots, then yes
asciilifeform: phf: and i have a half-written version of that. somewhere
asciilifeform: still does not help me now
asciilifeform: because have to somehow regenerate the lost product
asciilifeform: and motherfuckers strategically yank the mains cable
asciilifeform: comical idiocy, and i have no way around it presently
asciilifeform: aaaand it would have to be db-aware, because has to remember now ~which~ moduli in db are represented in the snapshot..
hanbot: look on the bright side: at least people care enough to find the holes in your design.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259224 << afghan doesn't rely on food trucks, flush toilet, or mains wiring. fragile things.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:19:12; mircea_popescu: trinque note that, importantly, you also need a particular sort of helpless population. the afghani have been bombed pretty much constantly since the 70s, did nothing.
asciilifeform: hanbot: these are not 'holes' as such, in that i was aware of them from hour 0.
hanbot: hey, i have some of those too!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259255 << very germane. american tax law designates specifically people like me for maximum pederasty treatment at every possible opportunity.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:40:34; mircea_popescu: he also isn't germane.
asciilifeform: 'enough money to be worth raping and killing, but not enough to hire lawyers or run away to .ar etc'
asciilifeform: aka usg feeding pool.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259268 << also recall the several threads where i explained that not only are virtually all of my expenses (and 100% of income) denominated in usd, but specifically the insta-trackable electronic kind.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 23:10:57; trinque: tax avoidance is a foolish move if you're dealing in their currency
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i hope you're awake for this one
mircea_popescu: because maximally, we accidentally found a magic packet.
kakobrekla: magic packet that plugs the mains cable?
kakobrekla: pulls*
kakobrekla: niggawut
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/1Q5WYQQ << every single time.
assbot: dpaste: 1Q5WYQQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKsQMt )
mircea_popescu: you ask for that tx. it disconnects.
mircea_popescu: i have a mile of logs showing the behaviour without exception.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8366 @ 0.00068294 = 5.7135 BTC [+]
kakobrekla for a second thought magick packet rebooted phuctor
mircea_popescu: that's in next week's crop kako
mircea_popescu: and no stack's not fucking germane. he was trying to insulate HIS INCOME. i was discussing optimizing YOUR EXPENDITURE. not like items.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.00067926 = 3.0227 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 227.97, Best ask: 228.06, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 228.06, 24 hour volume: 9813.28330955, 24 hour low: 226.55, 24 hour high: 232.39, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu !!
asciilifeform: glorious
asciilifeform washes chopping block
asciilifeform: if (nPos > ReceiveBufferSize()) {
asciilifeform: if (!pnode->fDisconnect)
asciilifeform: printf("socket recv flood control disconnect (%d bytes)\n", vRecv.size());
asciilifeform: pnode->CloseSocketDisconnect();
asciilifeform: dafuq was ~in~ that tx, mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: 10,000 microbitbet winningz ?
kakobrekla: bitbet needs bigger blocks!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259321 << my point was that stack was trying to play tax games while having no financial meat on his bones, nowhere to run, no money for lawyering
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 23:53:24; mircea_popescu: and no stack's not fucking germane. he was trying to insulate HIS INCOME. i was discussing optimizing YOUR EXPENDITURE. not like items.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a corp with zero income, tonnes of spending, no plausible reason for existence save tax shelter for a schmuck, and zero usg blessing (rather the opposite!) is just a request for gassing
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259316 << mile of log with this happening on my node? or also elsewhere ?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 23:50:16; mircea_popescu: i have a mile of logs showing the behaviour without exception.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope, it's tiny. single output
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on your node and each and every other node i know of.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most spiffy
assbot: dpaste: 3N5DRSD ... ( http://bit.ly/1FidVDV )
mircea_popescu: (to cuantify, i stopped counting at 500.)
asciilifeform: continued in pm
asciilifeform: (grep output. looking at the actual log presently)
asciilifeform: anyway, fwiw my node tries to send it.
asciilifeform: and nothing about disconnects.
asciilifeform: problem is on mircea_popescu's end.
asciilifeform: (that is, his node hangs up.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16888 @ 0.00067926 = 11.4713 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !gettrust VariaVarietatis
assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user VariaVarietatis: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=VariaVarietatis | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/VariaVarietatis/
assbot: Army Ordered to Pay KBR’s Legal Expenses ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fihkmc )
mircea_popescu: mats of course ?
mircea_popescu: obv govt will try to wiggle out of its own promises, being the government of the united states that's at issue here.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, who the fuck do you think will ever work for them without indemnity ?
mircea_popescu: they break the law. all the time.
mats: whoa, whoa, such cynicism
mircea_popescu: tis the truth. i personally wouldn't work with a rogue entity even if it promises "rly for srs" to cover my legal costs.
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, suggestion is not intended as the correct solution. more like send kill -HUP -> system goes into an hour long snapshot state
mircea_popescu: but then again other people are stupid
mircea_popescu: (in kbr's case, it's not that they're stupid, it's that they were raped. the classic "we provide indemnity so now you may not not break the law as we tell you to" trick. "key is in your pocket" in legal parlance)
mircea_popescu: !rate VariaVarietatis 1 Euloran
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/530ce9b2ff3f37b9
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.VariaVarietatis.1:f7aa6b3fcbc2ebb3075b180556394cded6a0dfe953805ad91bd3adaad4b9156a
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for VariaVarietatis with note: Euloran
mats: dunno about that. from intel i've gathered, it appears KBR did the raping here
mats: raped DoD, orc locals, just finished raping USG in their own court
mircea_popescu: yaya, im sure that's how it went.
mircea_popescu: ceo mr goldstein
mircea_popescu: the poor usg how it only wanted to restore peace and democracy to those poor iraquians, beleaguered by corrupt officials and tyrannycal despotism as they were, and then this capitalist concern of evil capital came and abused the entire good will of the people of usia and their elected representatives.
assbot: Despite Alert, Flawed Wiring Still Kills G.I.’s - New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1FiiUo4 )
mircea_popescu: what world we live in ;/
mats: FTR, i do actually believe that Bush et. al were naive enough to believe AFG/IRQ needed and wanted democracy
mircea_popescu: that was then.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile it's more like "we've been using temporary shelter in a permanent manner for the past decade and why is this insulation falling off"
funkenstein_: mats: 以夷治夷成依法意义, something like that?
mats: funkenstein_: i am having difficulty finding the source of the idiom (and subsequently how it is properly written) but the second half does not parse
mats: it may be that i remembered it incorrectly, i am only partially literate and recall the phrase from a translation of a ming text
funkenstein_: thanks, that was just my guess
mats: the phrase happens to predate 'yi yi zhi yi'
mod6 has one of those summertime colds
mircea_popescu: i got some sort of low cold too
mod6: i've sneezed about 34 times today.
mod6: and i'm running a fever now. annoying.
mod6: (19:17) <+ben_vulpes> mod6 probably has his own as well. << mine is basically a by hand list. it really needs some attention/tlc. I gotta get something more structured.
mod6: not sure if I wanna use trac or anything at this point.. but some cosideration is warrented for /something/ resonable for at least personal use.
mod6: *consideration
mod6: I'll add it to my to-do list ;]
mod6: ima go and try to catch up on these logs and get some extra zzzs. have a good evening all!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00068799 = 4.3343 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61982 @ 0.00069495 = 43.0744 BTC [+] {8}
deedbot-: [Trilema] Micul Botanist - http://trilema.com/2015/micul-botanist/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-09-2015#1259375 << they raped the u.s. ~taxpayer~. not to be confused with the stainless steel, quite unrapeable orifice of usg proper.
assbot: Logged on 02-09-2015 00:38:55; mats: raped DoD, orc locals, just finished raping USG in their own court
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6018 @ 0.00069786 = 4.1997 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: when it 'would not do' to lose a lawsuit, or so much as permit one to be heard, they invoke sovereign privilege and that's that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5587 @ 0.00068055 = 3.8022 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5621 @ 0.00069705 = 3.9181 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50484 @ 0.00069997 = 35.3373 BTC [+] {4}
mats: it appears ru is now operating a combat outpost in syria
asciilifeform: ru gotta churn inventory too, y'know
assbot: Russia Puts Boots on the Ground in Syria - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1VvfVSE )
mats: however, rt denies jets have been sent in country https://www.rt.com/news/314010-syria-russia-planes-isis
assbot: 'No Russian jets sent to Syria' - military source on 'expeditionary force' report — RT News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vvg8p6 )
mats: a denial of any troop movements in country, in fact
mats: how curious
asciilifeform: mats: tastes great with the earlier orl0l from today
asciilifeform: (the one concerning isis-as-junkyard-dog-of-usg hypothesis)
mircea_popescu: ru denials are about as good as us denials.
mircea_popescu: ~=confirmation within a first approximation
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