Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-08-28 | 2015-08-30 → ↓
phf: i forgot that event existed, probably got thrown out during the move, along with my copy of занимательная физика by perelman
phf: i had a friend, who run a fido node from his apartment, who looked exactly like that cat, if that's even possible
trinque: translation of the caption?
phf: "what sort of information can a computer output to the monitor?" "oh, all kinds..."
asciilifeform: i still have that perelman.
asciilifeform: (no, not the currently famous one. entirely other fella)
phf: biggest disappointment of my schools years, turns out that "flea balloon" idea doesn't quite work
mats: http://j00ru.vexillium.org/ntapi/ I had no idea a complete table like this existed
assbot: Microsoft Windows System Call Table (NT/2000/XP/2003/Vista/2008/7/8) ... ( http://bit.ly/1EqzKGO )
phf: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al: dulap rebooted today for no reason known to me. << if you start evaluating new hosting solutions, try these guys http://www.tummy.com. uptime on my box 529 days
assbot: Welcome to tummy.com – tummy.com, ltd. ... ( http://bit.ly/1EqBe3z )
asciilifeform: phf: no go - usa.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00070072 = 10.0553 BTC [-] {3}
phf: ha, found it, flea balloon idea was in "Mechanics for entertainment", http://glyf.org/tmp/flea-balloon-1.png http://glyf.org/tmp/flea-balloon-2.png
phf: asciilifeform: i thought dulap hosting was stateside. shame, tummy people are excellent at what they do
phf: (entire perelman archive in djvu http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/P/PEREL'MAN_Yakov_Isidorovich/_Perel'man_Ya.I..html, probably of interest only for ascii)
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1LIa62q )
phf: !up Bingo_VACAY
assbot: A look at The Machine [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1LIa8HM )
phf: !up Bingo_VACAY
Bingo_VACAY: Kidneys agents surround me. May have to dick my way out
Bingo_VACAY: *Kismet's agents
punkman: Bingo_VACAY: did you get the job?
assbot: Why It's Safe for Founders to Be Nice ... ( http://bit.ly/1LIaBK7 )
Bingo_VACAY: Best evidence rule
Bingo_VACAY: Sorry taking notes
Bingo_VACAY: Kismet is treacherous
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00070007 = 4.8305 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00069933 = 2.5875 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9368 @ 0.00069933 = 6.5513 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13584 @ 0.0006966 = 9.4626 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.00070527 = 1.4811 BTC [+]
assbot: The Economics of Bitcoin Transaction Fees by Nicolas Houy :: SSRN ... ( http://bit.ly/1NFc6ZF )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00070413 = 5.0345 BTC [-]
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1hmFYfV )
punkman: "Mr. Ali noted the popularity of Facebook groups such as “Smuggle Yourself to Europe Without a Trafficker.”"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00070173 = 8.6664 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5242 @ 0.00070163 = 3.6779 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8308 @ 0.00069638 = 5.7855 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2550 @ 0.00069638 = 1.7758 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5472 @ 0.00069873 = 3.8235 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00069638 = 1.8106 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00070535 = 2.4687 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7250 @ 0.00070513 = 5.1122 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00070513 = 3.2083 BTC [-]
shinohai: https://redd.it/3ird55 <<< rofl *of course you got hacked*
assbot: Holy shit my eth accounts been hacked : ethereum ... ( http://bit.ly/1LIwQ2m )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6370 @ 0.00070241 = 4.4744 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6316 @ 0.00070961 = 4.4819 BTC [+] {3}
btcdrak: mircea_popescu: I know your views about XTcoin, but what are your views about raising the blocksize limit by proper technical consensus and released through Bitcoin Core?
assbot: Logged on 17-08-2015 19:24:23; mircea_popescu: incidentally ascii_field mod6 kakobrekla jurov & mike_c do let me know if you'd like me to publish http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-08-2015#1240297 on trilema as "b-a's notion of a block increasing hardfork".
mats: http://www.gliderzz.com I have been seeing these around a lot lately
assbot: Gliderz - Personal Transportation Devices – Gliderzz ... ( http://bit.ly/1ErezUW )
kakobrekla: segway without the handle stick?
gribble: Time since last block: 13 minutes and 46 seconds
mircea_popescu: hory sheit it is.
mircea_popescu: that's her right nipple and her left tit under that pinkish mess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00069942 = 5.8751 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255258 << what kako said, with the rider that the proposed thing carried exactly zero support by the people named.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 11:36:42; btcdrak: mircea_popescu: I know your views about XTcoin, but what are your views about raising the blocksize limit by proper technical consensus and released through Bitcoin Core?
kakobrekla doesnt see benefits in forking
assbot: Just a moment... ... ( http://bit.ly/1UcRJas )
mircea_popescu: dude what the fuck is wrong with these broken minds.
mircea_popescu: fucking monkeys already. so he fucks up, once by getting involved in a piece of shit scam, the other for sucking at math. and what he wants to know ain't "i wonder how i could be less fucktarded" at any point.
mircea_popescu: instead it's "hey, let's fix my being a monkey with more monkeying around!"
mircea_popescu: /0xfe6404ba34ea4c30538ff4d058f4bf883220fd79 is the fucking aliens, how about that.
mircea_popescu: it's chtulhu.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00069842 = 1.327 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2000 * 1.64 / (1160*2.03*3)
gribble: 0.46429986977
mircea_popescu: "I told him not to worry about it, because so long as he built something good enough to spread by word of mouth, he'd have a hyperlinear growth curve. If he was bad at extracting money from people, at worst this curve would be some constant multiple less than 1 of what it might have been. But a constant multiple of any curve is exactly the same shape. The numbers on the Y axis are smaller, but the curve is just as stee
mircea_popescu: p, and when anything grows at the rate of a successful startup, the Y axis will take care of itself."
mircea_popescu: this guy is completely fucktarded wtf.
mircea_popescu: this, he calls math ?
mircea_popescu: i thought graham was supposed to be a competent old lisp hand. is this the brainrot lisp instills in people ?
mircea_popescu: "Some examples will make this clear. Suppose your company is making $1000 a month now, and you've made something so great that it's growing at 5% a week. Two years from now, you'll be making about $160k a month.
mircea_popescu: Now suppose you're so un-rapacious that you only extract half as much from your users as you could. That means two years later you'll be making $80k a month instead of $160k. How far behind are you? How long will it take to catch up with where you'd have been if you were extracting every penny? A mere 15 weeks. After two years, the un-rapacious founder is only 3.5 months behind the rapacious one."
mircea_popescu: here's what i propose : paul graham eat 500 calories for every 1k calories he expends.
mircea_popescu: he's so hyperfucktarded, he's only going to be 50% behind actual entrepreneurs.
mircea_popescu: rather than the 99.94% his piece of shit "ventures" are currently.
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, dulap is still ~50 blox behind
mircea_popescu: so techniucally it'd be an improvement. and if he stops eating at all and instead starts puking edible vomit like some sort of invertebrate cornucopia, he might even be socially useful FOR ONCE IN HIS SAD EXISTENCE
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is with these people omfg.
asciilifeform: (lengthy blackhole periods apparent to naked eye, in log)
mircea_popescu: i've been up an hour i've been reading nothing but scandalous stupidity.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255266 << sadly my copy of the book has a blank screen...
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 13:29:33; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255201 << is that soft pr0n on his monitor ?
mircea_popescu: i can see why.
mircea_popescu: i never knew the russians to be czech minded.
mircea_popescu: afaik they're about as fucktardedly puritan as the anglos
mircea_popescu: brief 90s lapse notwithstanding.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255288 << he wrote a textbook on basic common lisp for schoolchildren once. i still have it. can't comment on his programmatic work, afaik none of it has ever been published openly...
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 13:57:20; mircea_popescu: i thought graham was supposed to be a competent old lisp hand. is this the brainrot lisp instills in people ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look at this perhaps very worrisome set of two examples.
mircea_popescu: 1) naggum spent his mind on thinking about lisp, ended up a 40year old too fucktarded to get out of the rain. this is literally what happened, and one will have a lot of trouble talking around the failure of some guy to avoid dying of perforated ulcer.
mircea_popescu: 2) graham spent his mind on thinking about lisp, ended up a 60 yo too fucktarded to understand even the most basic points of math.
mircea_popescu: this "take one side of the story and run with it" is speciufic of ambitious if none too bright 15 yo boys.
punkman: asciilifeform: he had his own lisp and I think he published the code that ran HN at some point
asciilifeform: punkman: 'arc.' it turned out to consist of standard scheme with shortened operator.
asciilifeform: operators.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: graham is an illustration of something else: the corrosive effect of taking scam-money, regardless of the purpose, on intellectual honesty and in turn intelligence itself
asciilifeform: it is impossible to do anything like proper thinking with sc4mz0rated priors
asciilifeform: in the very best case, the result looks like tommy aquinas.
asciilifeform: not sure if this adds anything to mircea_popescu's line of thought, but it is known that paul graham wrote common lisp programs using... vi. this drives me to barking madness after five minutes, and it is difficult to picture what brain might look like after a whole year of it, or what said brain must have looked like to even contemplate doing such a thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform name a guy who did lisp and survived mind intact.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 12:16:01; mats: http://www.gliderzz.com I have been seeing these around a lot lately
assbot: Logged on 24-08-2014 21:40:36; *: asciilifeform had a dream many years ago that his grandfather took an ancient grinding wheel from workshop, turned it upside-down, and taught him to ride it. and now people actually do something quite like this.
mircea_popescu: maybe you're right, and it's incidentals. or maybe lisp to the young mind is like meth-lsd
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neither of the folks you named encountered it as a young man
mircea_popescu: "young man" = under 50.
asciilifeform: (rms would be a better example)
mircea_popescu: rms is not exactly a paragon of sanity.
mircea_popescu: but in his case, it's prolly congenital.
asciilifeform: hence better example of 'lisp as newton's mercury'
mircea_popescu: not that i'm persuaded, but one can't not notice the coincidence.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the "scam money rots your brain" think is also a very powerful theory.
asciilifeform: more mundanely, sane folks tend to not end up famous.
mircea_popescu: in this field ?!
asciilifeform: in any field.
mircea_popescu: babbage was famous alright.
mircea_popescu: the list of sane folks in logic is impressive.
mircea_popescu: now, math people are generally a loony bunch, but
mircea_popescu: in computing (the actual kind) the record's not as bad as in most other disciplines.
asciilifeform: today, some degree of lunacy is almost a basic bar for being willing to touch the cursed machine in the first place.
mircea_popescu: i'm unpersuaded.
asciilifeform: properly sane people, for example, tend to stick to +ev activities.
mircea_popescu: and re vi - whatever!!1 i used it for years. nowadays i find i mostly use nano. then again nowadays i mostly read other people's reports.
mircea_popescu: no activities are +ev, yo.
mircea_popescu: this is what being intelligent means : the more intelligent you are, the less often you get more than what you put into things.
mircea_popescu: that's the test.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: every sysadmin loves vi and nano, even. but programming in common lisp in an editor which doesn't automatch parens and autoindent is an example of something i might do in hell
mircea_popescu: o that. well sure.
mircea_popescu: i also you know, don't draw self portraits in it.
asciilifeform: and it is perhaps just barely possible to program in it without 'who-calls', 'apropos', etc., but certainly not pleasant.
punkman: editing text in a console drives me mad
mircea_popescu: you do it on printouts ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also, art is always and by definition a -ev activity, and people engage in it. for that matter, love and childmaking idem.
mircea_popescu: so there's a number of different problems with this "ev activity" line of reasoning.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: art is +ev in the artist's diseased head. which is why insanity is a must.
mircea_popescu: dobut it.
mircea_popescu: i write the occasional bit of poetry/literature, and i don't either regard it as some sort of gain or myself as insane (for it)
asciilifeform: '+ev in his head' != 'consciously regard as gain'
mircea_popescu: but what then ?
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:34:29; ascii_field: far more interesting is the trait hasn eysenck called 'psychoticism'
asciilifeform: he pictured originality in thought as something like the 'temperature' in a simulated-annealing
asciilifeform: turn it up past a certain point, and you get something clearly recognizable as 'batshit'
mircea_popescu: i see little more at work than utter contempt for "fellow man" in the common sense this is given.
asciilifeform: turn it all the way down - you get a housewife
mircea_popescu: that most creative people throughout the ages would prefer to pretend "they're insane" rather than make plain their complete inadherence to the mob is readily understandable
mircea_popescu: also known as "it's not you, it's me"
asciilifeform: 'insane' is necessarily a judgement made by the mob
mircea_popescu: a housewife is exactly that : someone completely adherent to the mob. so much so she can spend all her time with children and not care.
asciilifeform: (discounting modern folks who walks around pretending to be newton on account of hearing voices, etc)
asciilifeform: housewife 'adheres to the mob', yes. but the trait in question (or rather lack thereof) is the ~why~
asciilifeform: from my point of view, proper 'insane' is when someone is so 'hot' that his mind has trouble sticking even to... arithmetic, cause-and-effect, and other knobs of the physical world we live in.
asciilifeform: sorta like you can't have chemistry, in the customary electroweak-force sense, happen on the surface of a star.
asciilifeform: see canonical 'timecube'.
mircea_popescu: maybe a sufficient approach if all you care about is handling and predicting
mircea_popescu: rather than "curing"
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the model breaks down on low states. which is why the housewife is such a problem for your approach : she's hot alright.
asciilifeform: in what sense hot ?
mircea_popescu: in the sense that her brain works.
asciilifeform: ice-cold, as far as i can tell
asciilifeform: it works, but in the way a train works - on rails laid down by others.
mircea_popescu: you talking from books or experience ?
asciilifeform: from experience with the usual boring specimens of humanity one encounters on the street, in trains, lifts, jury box
asciilifeform: the folks who neatly cancel out one another's sharp edges.
mircea_popescu: it is generally rare to find a woman so stupid her actual optimal level is housewifing.
mircea_popescu: it's about 80ish or so iq, reall.
asciilifeform: ^ by definition not especially rare
mircea_popescu: it is rare, yes. look at the normal distribution, between say 88 and maybe 75 you get what, 4% of the population ?
asciilifeform: grind the gaussian.
mircea_popescu looks at this
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you get 0.0726 between -1.15 and -.85 deviation.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255216 << the scheme pictured isn't terribly useful for the same reason that dirigibles are difficult to fly.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 05:40:29; phf: ha, found it, flea balloon idea was in "Mechanics for entertainment", http://glyf.org/tmp/flea-balloon-1.png http://glyf.org/tmp/flea-balloon-2.png
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4250 @ 0.00069712 = 2.9628 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: traditionally '70' corresponds to -2 sd, and '85' to -1.
asciilifeform: by weschler, that is
asciilifeform: stanford-binet had something else..
asciilifeform blows dust off ancient crud
mircea_popescu: which is why i went 15% either side of 1
mircea_popescu: anyway, point remains, rare enough.
asciilifeform: 'rare' enough to mostly guarantee a tard in every jury box, etc
mircea_popescu: i guess the formula probably is, "the predominance of women best suited for housewifing equals the unit divided by the maximal litter of a woman"
mircea_popescu: so like 1/12 or somethign lijke that
asciilifeform: don't discount the iq hit apparently imposed by spawning
asciilifeform: easily double-digit
mircea_popescu: how's that supposed to work ?
asciilifeform: ask them.
mircea_popescu: they're not putting forth this theory.
asciilifeform: can't say whether it is a biological effect or simply the matter of being in a room with small children entire day
mircea_popescu: same hit people going to work for a bureaucracy exhibit.
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is WHY we only care to fuck women < 20something. that's it. after she's moved on to office life, you can have her.)
asciilifeform: approximately
asciilifeform: brain atrophies much like muscles
asciilifeform: this incidentally is behind 'thinking people want to ~use~ their brains' which mircea_popescu counted as a sin
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between wanting to use your brain as a general thing,
mircea_popescu: and wanting everything you do to be driven by your brain.
mircea_popescu: the former's sane, the later's of the same ilk as children going to bed in their favourite clothes
mircea_popescu: BUT IT'S MY FAVOURITE PRINCESS GOWN!!11
mircea_popescu: well... if you sleep in it, it won't be for long.
asciilifeform: but the point remains, that microscope does not benefit from use as hammer.
mircea_popescu: whereas fuctkarded abstractions fucktarded people come up with greatly, and i do mean GREATLY benefit from a spanking.
asciilifeform: spank if you must, this old gray head, but spare your country's flag, she said
asciilifeform: or how did it go.
diana_coman: asciilifeform> don't discount the iq hit apparently imposed by spawning <- interesting theory, as a mother of a 3yo I can say that the only way I can see that work is mainly due perhaps to sleep deprivation
asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc chetty said something similar
asciilifeform: the last time this came up
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i bet you it's primarly driven by internalised expectations.
diana_coman: and no, I don't spend my whole day in a room with small children (and even when I do play with the lo, I find myself quickly ending up basically explaining graph theory on his train set/track or something other - not out of some idea that it will make him a genius, but out of boredom, yes)
mircea_popescu: rearing children is perhaps not so unlike going to reeducation camp for a few years. it "didn't work" on a. solzhenitsyn. it DID work, obviously, on all the schmucks he knows by name but you do not. so...
diana_coman: there is a big shock in the first year for sure
mircea_popescu: diana_coman which is how camp inmates ended up teaching linguistics lmao
diana_coman: but not sure why/how/whether that shock really is about brain matter shrinking or something
diana_coman: oh, the first days/weeks or so yeah, hormones all over the place and funny stuff (such as forgetting why I went to a room or another or stuff like that)
mircea_popescu: that's ok, i do that all the time anyway.
diana_coman: fwiw children actually enjoy even graph theory (if explained on train track sets) so no, it's not as if one has to really dumb down necessarily just for being with them
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255432 << considering that this works just as perceptibly on the fathers, it is probably an effect of hanging out with children
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 15:24:37; mircea_popescu: rearing children is perhaps not so unlike going to reeducation camp for a few years. it "didn't work" on a. solzhenitsyn. it DID work, obviously, on all the schmucks he knows by name but you do not. so...
mircea_popescu: diana_coman again, matter of internalised expectations.
mircea_popescu: children, inasmuch as they're yours, expect exactly what they're getting and will be equally thankful for it, which is why a six year old is happy whether poor african or rich swede, just as long as he's with his mother.
mircea_popescu: !up Huxy
diana_coman: yes, but more than that, they are actually curious (as far as I can tell and not only based on mine) and enjoy something new - they don't care about the level really, so it's more a matter of what the other people can "feed" them really
diana_coman: sure, they will be equally delighted with someone speaking gibberish to them
diana_coman: but that doesn't mean that you *have* to speak gibberish to them
mircea_popescu: exactly. you don't have to grow fat and stupid now that you have kids. but if you expect to, sure, you will.
mircea_popescu: and they don't have to learn about santa and the guy in the sky. they will, sure, if that's what you wanna tell me.
diana_coman: pretty much, yes
mircea_popescu: diana_coman so are you making another ?
diana_coman: lolz, I guess if I am, then I will, won't I?
mircea_popescu: well obviously lol.
assbot: DHS Wishes Local Arab-American Would Just Hatch Terrorist Plot Already ... ( http://bit.ly/1hKVkvv )
mircea_popescu: !up refferedbyloper
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00069803 = 10.9591 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: umm no he isn't
asciilifeform: or he'd be 'referredbyloper'
assbot: Loper OS » Phuctor Broke Several RSA Keys. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjY1Qk )
asciilifeform: so wtf ?
punkman: he figured out how to get !up's
asciilifeform: doesn't seem to be doing much with this one.
asciilifeform: refferedbyloper: you managed to discover how to begin at less than zero, congrats
refferedbyloper: son't be mean, but be paranoid :) i'm just lurking around reading logs
assbot: IP Reports for 104.238.169.61 ... ( http://bit.ly/1hKWpU5 )
mircea_popescu: ". In the same way that the people who used to use BBS systems in small numbers that are dwarfed by the number of internet users, Bitcoin will undergo a similar transformation, with similar beneficial effects, only this time, penetrating more deeply into society at every level than what is simple net access today."
mircea_popescu: god help us
mircea_popescu: because i'd so totally trade a mile of "internet" by which our friend of course means retardorama web 2.0, for an inch of bbs.
mircea_popescu: fortunately the point is exactly that bitcoin doesn't work like that.
punkman: who's that
mircea_popescu: reading through qnrtra comments
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.00070353 = 1.1256 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8552 @ 0.00070108 = 5.9956 BTC [-]
assbot: Mikrotik RouterOS 5.* and 6.* sshd remote preauth heap corruption | kingcopes´ blag ... ( http://bit.ly/1hKYi2W )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, re the constant empress cixi references : the esteemed duke of wellington also contributed "Depend upon it, Sir, nothing will come of them!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.00070354 = 1.0553 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00070354 = 7.4223 BTC [+]
trinque: does this "psychoticism" mean something like willingness to act *upon* a person or *through* them?
trinque: made me recall "ready-to-hand" from heidegger
mircea_popescu: i'd rather expect it's "a reckless disregard of life and property".
trinque: if that, I don't see immediately how it could be an advantage.
mircea_popescu: which is properly called "manhood".
trinque: disregard certainly, depending on towards what
trinque: but if I disregard my nailgun, might not get useful results
trinque: hearing aids have made quite the improvements over the years
mircea_popescu: trinque you familiar with the "psychotic" observation of poincarre (the president, not the other one) that "universal lack of suffering may never be a policy goal, for the simplest means to effect it would be simply killing everyone" ?
trinque: I wasn't, but I see the sense in it.
mircea_popescu: well it is also in what a government of women would hold (and in those countries which do allow such nonsense, do hold) as reckless disregard of their litter.
trinque: naturally they would, though what's sensible with a narrow view may be insane from a broader perspective
trinque: so I don't think I disagree, just that "who says it's reckless?"
mircea_popescu: i suppose the standard is "someone"
mircea_popescu: and no, "what's sensible with a narrow view may be insane from a broader perspective" doesn't hold because "every sperm is sacred" and assorted nonsense
mircea_popescu: EVERY LYF CUNTS!11
assbot: Every Sperm is Sacred - Monty Python's The Meaning of Life - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1hnuIjk )
trinque: lol
trinque: I suppose its obvious, but it points to an inherent conflict between the sexes.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 12:16:01; mats: http://www.gliderzz.com I have been seeing these around a lot lately
trinque: even more extreme in other species
trinque: getting eaten after mating and such
mircea_popescu: the practical options are conflict or collapse.
mircea_popescu: you can't really have anything even resembling homeostasis in systems without contrary forces.
trinque nods
mircea_popescu: which is why "a life free of conflict" is such ridoinculous contradiction in terms.
mircea_popescu: you wanna be dead, go off yourself already.
mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/1093/bitcoin-main-net-block-size-to-increase-in/#c4967 << lmao these derps still gonzoing around bitbet comments
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase in 2015 :: 3.84 B (13%) on Yes, 26.68 B (87%) on No | closing in 2 months 2 weeks | weight: 24`943 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1MUlaZd )
mircea_popescu: must suck to suck.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255342 << why not less, then, if we're not editing things.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 14:21:49; mircea_popescu: and re vi - whatever!!1 i used it for years. nowadays i find i mostly use nano. then again nowadays i mostly read other people's reports.
mircea_popescu: ctrl-alt-W for one thing
mircea_popescu: or w/e, cW aB
ben_vulpes: and that does?
trinque: vi modal editing is superior
ben_vulpes: oh, find and replace?
mircea_popescu: search/reverse search.
trinque: I use evil in emacs for this very reason
mircea_popescu: and i do make some MINIMAL adnotations.
mircea_popescu: like fucking stalin.
trinque: I have no idea who thought these emacs "chords" were a good thing, but fuck that person
ben_vulpes: trinque: if i actually wrote code, i'd be more inclined to use evil.
trinque: I enjoy the use of my hands
ben_vulpes: as it is, the bulk of my time is spent performing archaeology.
ben_vulpes: speedup from modal editing would be negligible.
trinque: just a matter of staying off the modifier keys; I use space as leader and various sequences of keys from there, usually involving index and middle fingers
mircea_popescu: really, alf proposed a half truth when he said that if handling the mechanics of signing are the major time eater, one's clearly not doing enough work with the patches.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, if the writing part's the big problem, one's clearly not thinking enough.
mircea_popescu: !up CohibAA
trinque: ben_vulpes: not really a speedup; I've just moved common emacs operations towards the middle of the keyboard
ben_vulpes: trinque: mircea_popescu's gist here is eerily similar to mr W's
trinque: switching buffers is space-space
trinque: esc is right alt
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/BCFVP7xlb2slk8hgr2iraZVi_500.jpgbecause CLEARLY they'd have her keep paties on. man those bugs climing abound on one's thighs is such horror.
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1MUlC9Q )
mircea_popescu: for the record, /me holds the above way above theft and rape. it is the sort of intellectual dishonesty that should result in being drawn and quartered.
mats: ben_vulpes: nope
ben_vulpes: when i go full scammatronics vc bezzle the office campus will be navigated with 'solowheel' 'orbits'
ben_vulpes: regarding graham, the focus on macros in his (published) work puts me off a bit. "look at the monstrous edifice of complexity i can hold within my mind!" instead of "look at this useful and easily fit-into-head thing i made".
trinque: ben_vulpes: seems generally you should always have a damned good reason for introducing new syntax
trinque: what that damned good reason might be still is not entirely clear to me
trinque: setf seems like an example of a good macro, where the general notion of "set the thing, whatever it is, to this value" is expanded to whatever the appropriate way to set that thing is
mircea_popescu: what does "value" mean tho ?
mircea_popescu: seems to me by the time i dun know anymore how to fill the something with water i have a problem more serious in there.
mircea_popescu: what something is it anyway ?
trinque: could be a slot on an object, could be some symbol
trinque: and the value would be an expression to evaluate
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 17:24:20; trinque: I have no idea who thought these emacs "chords" were a good thing, but fuck that person
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 02:20:39; the_scourge: 'Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.' (naggum, who else. http://www.xach.com/na < funny, that's one of t
trinque: but yes, that perspective is also sensible. "know what you're dealing with"
trinque: asciilifeform: indeed
mircea_popescu: if i want you to set a vector to "4" do i mean 4.0, 4.0, 4.0 ? do i mean 4.0, 0.0, 0.0 ie the 1st invariant ? do i mean 4.0, 1.0, 1.0 ie the 2nd invariant ? do i simply mean 4.0, normal, normal ? what normal ?
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 17:26:00; mircea_popescu: in point of fact, if the writing part's the big problem, one's clearly not thinking enough.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a ok
asciilifeform digs in logs, but fails to turn up, the discussion of typing
ben_vulpes: !s symbol from:asciilifeform
assbot: 14 results for 'symbol from:asciilifeform' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=symbol+from%3Aasciilifeform
asciilifeform writes perhaps a dozen lines of text on a typical day
asciilifeform: (of executable code, that is)
mircea_popescu: for that matter setting a rate of flow gauge (like say a tap) to "4" is not in any sense similar to setting a wallet to contain "4". it's more alike "4x", really.
mircea_popescu: intuitive impression to the contrary notwithstanding, values do not contain their own definition.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255557 << the correct use of lispmacro is, as any other notation, to maximally orthogonalize the system
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 17:44:04; ben_vulpes: regarding graham, the focus on macros in his (published) work puts me off a bit. "look at the monstrous edifice of complexity i can hold within my mind!" instead of "look at this useful and easily fit-into-head thing i made".
mircea_popescu: which is why statistics is such iffy busienss.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'macros' (in the lisp-family sense, because they DEMAND homoiconic language, and there are no others) exist to shoot 'design patterns' in the head
asciilifeform: (for non-programmers: just about every language, other than lisp-family, has repeated chunks of boilerplate that programmers end up forced to memorize, and litter their work with. these are sometimes called 'design patterns')
ben_vulpes: what do you have against the delegateHoldingMyHandWhileComplexThingsHappenThatNeedToCallTheSystemStateMachineWithSpecificInformation pattern, eh?
ben_vulpes: it is a very useful contract for writing code with other beebul!
trinque: naggum on lisp not turning people into cogs
trinque: ^ macro, pls expand
asciilifeform: trinque: that was my piece actually
trinque: ah whoops
asciilifeform: !s lisp cogs
assbot: 4 results for 'lisp cogs' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lisp+cogs
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255484 << run moar weird closedsource networking systems, aha
ben_vulpes: well until trinque writes his database-inspecting UI generator, i'm stuck building machines that write software to extract data from databases and render it and manipulatory widgets for it.
ben_vulpes: WITH PEOPLE.
ben_vulpes: eg cogs.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: y'know, you don't have to make the 'people' write programs. could send them to, e.g., make you coffee, while you write commonlisp
asciilifeform: or even could not hire them at all, and keep the dough
trinque: ben_vulpes: thing's probably like... clim and clos at this point
trinque: and I've postponed working on that thinger indefinitely, reviewing the literature :p
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: just doesn't understand How The Werld Werks (tm)
asciilifeform: trinque: i more or less broke my brain against the wall years ago trying to make clim run decently under modern unixen
ben_vulpes: "time and materials".
asciilifeform: what i ended up getting was slow-as-molasses, almost microshitesque experience
asciilifeform: was told 'go buy allegro'
asciilifeform: so i ended up thinking 'if i'm stuck with a $maxint system where i can't hold a conversation with civilians because no one else has the runtime, may as well requisition 'mathematica'...' - so i did
trinque: and then really, if you're dealing in the modern software "market", wtf is CLIM on an iPhone?
asciilifeform: trinque: even 'c' on iphone is problematic
asciilifeform: you're stuck with the imposed retardation
ben_vulpes: why mathematica?!
asciilifeform: (for folks who never suffered the misfortune of getting involved with ipNohe - if you want your proggy to have a ui, and actually execute, much less get past the censors - you have to write at least a large chunk of it in next^H^H^Hcrapple's abortion of a c-with-classes)
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1N27D3p )
asciilifeform: ^ discussion
phf: mathematica is basically lisp written by a person who understood lisp, but hated lisp
asciilifeform: phf: aha. this is discussed in the logs
phf: naturally :)
asciilifeform: he hated it so much that when he understood that there is no escape from it if you want a sane and fully expressive programming system, he gave it a thick spraypaint coat to hide it
ben_vulpes: link?
asciilifeform: gotta understand that wolfram is a great (in the sense of edison) plagiarist
asciilifeform: as in, expert plagiarist, who is very, very good at what he does.
asciilifeform: (idiot plagiarists plagiarize text; clever ones - concepts; great ones - whole systems, disciplines)
asciilifeform: wolfram tried to steal an entire ~discipline~ - as described in http://bactra.org/reviews/wolfram and elsewhere
assbot: Stephen Wolfram, A New Kind of Science ... ( http://bit.ly/1N27MDR )
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 21:17:14; ascii_field: wolfram is sui generis. owns a tame publisher, for instance
phf: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255201 << is that soft pr0n on his monitor ? << yes, i didn't actually notice until i posted, probably a 2ch gag
asciilifeform: ^ not in the book. a very clean photochop gag, aha
asciilifeform admits that he had to actually pull the thing off the shelf and check !
trinque: lol, I'd assumed the book was published somewhere with a sense of humor
asciilifeform: trinque: sense of humour, but vga was hardly even a thing yet (certainly in the east)
asciilifeform: so not yet age of electro-pr0n
asciilifeform: (aside from basement vhs)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.0006982 = 18.0834 BTC [-] {3}
phf: well, also "В СССР секса нет"
asciilifeform: (tm) (r)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00071676 = 13.7618 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: ^ cult meme
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255554 << from what i've been told, the common problem of all 'handlebar-less segway' machines is the muscle strain from the constant effort involved in not falling off the thing while tilting it to steer
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 17:33:16; ben_vulpes: when i go full scammatronics vc bezzle the office campus will be navigated with 'solowheel' 'orbits'
asciilifeform: go stand on top of a basketball, to experience this.
mircea_popescu: so why exactly hated lisp ?
asciilifeform: wolfram?
asciilifeform: ask him ?
mircea_popescu: so i have.
asciilifeform: but if i had to hazard a guess, it is because 1) it was great 2) not his
mircea_popescu: this is actually a perfectly legitimate reason to take things from idiots
asciilifeform: herr w has a considerable, imho psychiatric, 'greatness complex'
mircea_popescu: (/me is still unpersuaded anyone involved in lisp to date isn't an idiot)
asciilifeform: but he did not take it from idiots. he took it from smart folks
mircea_popescu: who, rms ?
asciilifeform: long before rms was famous.
mircea_popescu: greatness doens't get to skip a generation./
mircea_popescu: it's either continued or unextant.
asciilifeform: didn't say that it skipped.
mircea_popescu: well so from whiom then
asciilifeform: the lisp thing (goes far beyond a style of programming language, but concepts like dynamic type and garbage collection and a number of other concepts) started at stanford under mccarthy himself, then mit 'project mac' (nothing to do with apple), then mit ai lab and 'lispmachine'
asciilifeform: then essentially vanished.
mircea_popescu: sooo....
asciilifeform: except that modern-day idiots use the broken-off pieces of it in everything.
asciilifeform: like the visigoths broke apart roman mosaics
mircea_popescu: "bitcoin started with unnamed guy, then essentially vanished. except contemporary idiots using "blockchain technologies""
mircea_popescu: can't blame a man for "stealing" from this lot,
mircea_popescu: or for making it impossible for the lot to exert any further control.
mircea_popescu: it's not theft, it's god's own repossession.
mircea_popescu: ape may steal from man ; but man can not steal from ape. everything man takes from ape is glory.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: appreciate, there was no way to make lispmachine cheap in 1978
asciilifeform: or even 1988.
asciilifeform: the chemistry was not there.
asciilifeform: just like we do not yet know how to make mass spectrometer cheap
asciilifeform: or electron microscope.
asciilifeform: today, the apes are nesting in man's burned-out skyscrapers, approximately.
mircea_popescu: this discussion made me intuit a strange sort of reverse-marxism.
mircea_popescu: for everything the common man "has" is a) not his good property and b) acquired by him through some osrt of redistribution or other
asciilifeform: how else.
mircea_popescu: and so everythiong the common man has must be taken from him, right now.
asciilifeform: this was, in all places, a lengthy monologue in one of ayn rand's yarns
asciilifeform: does anyone recall which ?
asciilifeform: pretty sure it was 'atlas'
asciilifeform: but where? can't recall.
mircea_popescu: historically various accidental constraints made the construction of one's ideas vulnerable, and he ended up sharing some part with the mob
mircea_popescu: that thing is going away, rapidly.
mircea_popescu: soon enough, who he thinks shall have, and he only.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform was it ?
asciilifeform: it was.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: caveat: do you recall the experiment with the beaten chimpanzee ?
mircea_popescu: what's next, experiments with seaweed ?
asciilifeform: it was a kind of animal demo of why 'atlas' doesn't ever actually 'shrug'
phf: i thought esotericism and knowledge guilds is how it was done until quite recently?
asciilifeform: phf: the modern-day successor of that is the unspoken gentleman's agreement among programmers to churn out mountains of shit that has to be 'maintained' at tremendous expense forever
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's nonsense.
phf: i have a very romantic view of guilds then, more like b-a, less then hacker news, but then i grew up on romantic literature
asciilifeform: phf: navigator's guild in 'dune' !
asciilifeform: who wouldn't wanna join that.
phf: oh, that's fair
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nonsense ? be so kind as to demonstrate gedankenexperiment ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and, preferably, something that doesn't make me think of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-08-2015#1243116
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
asciilifeform: that is to say, some mechanism whereby 'atlas' may 'shrug' without killing himself necessarily.
trinque roars with laughter
asciilifeform: 40.0.3 ?!!!
asciilifeform: how many ~are~ there now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can conduct an experiment where i get together six poor africans, who then proceed to get drunk and be stupid, and say "lo! this is man" and you'll say "gtfo these niggers out of hewre, they're unrepresentative".
mircea_popescu: how do you figure chimps are representative ? why not go ask the ruminants of the fucking plains.
asciilifeform: but if the experiment is about, say, effects of strontium-90
mircea_popescu: but it is not.
asciilifeform: it is about effects of hunger, among other things. which affects pretty much all mammals similarly, no ?
mircea_popescu: and it is not about "the effects". it is abour social organisation, which is supposed to be a culturally normated activity.
mircea_popescu: so no : i am not rawl's "any other man" and so very much less am i some derp's three dozen chimps.
mircea_popescu: for all you know he picked from the wrong chimp country.
asciilifeform: pan troglodytes doesn't seem to differ much from human schoolboy re: organization
mircea_popescu: except in places (like shown by this experiment) where he does.
asciilifeform: the invention of 'шарашка' demonstrates that the chimp trick works great on man.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, go, write "a lisp such that any other man would see the wisdom in it and b e able to use it to whatever purpoise without bothering to learn it, or even read his own code"
mircea_popescu: on fucktards, yes.
mircea_popescu: it works great to distinguish chimpalikes aka ciumpalaci.
asciilifeform: nothing works on everyone. not even aids virus
asciilifeform: not even bullet in head (some folks survive!)
mircea_popescu: for that matter, horse medicine works to some degree on some people.
mircea_popescu: yet, to stay in the same anecdotal universe, whatever the шарашка proves about the fundamental worthlessness of "intellectuals", the vory/suka dispute prove that man is still not chimp.
asciilifeform: i mean, i get it, mircea_popescu is with limonov in respecting the anonymous but honorable 'blatnoi' scum over korolev, who created modern rocketry while - yes - a slave
asciilifeform: the product of this recipe is afghanistan and the pashtuns
asciilifeform: (orlov is somewhat fixated on them as 'ideal')
asciilifeform: whatever else 'vory' might do, notice how they don't ever appear to build orbital launchers ?
asciilifeform: or thermonuke? or even create so much as a bulldozer ?
asciilifeform: there was an interesting piece in some rag or other, a few weeks ago (?) re: mexican mafia stealing and enslaving white engineers to build their infrastructure
asciilifeform: similar cases were heard of during the chechen wars
asciilifeform: (and today from 'isis', though it is difficult from where i stand to get anything like an honest picture of the latter)
asciilifeform: or chingis khan 'stealing' chinese scholars...
asciilifeform: if, as mircea_popescu appears to suggest, chingis khan is the 'luxury model' of human, and everybody else is 'man lite version', why does the khan have to enslave engineers ?
trinque: perhaps it's a question like "why doesn't the queen bee have to haul all this pollen?"
asciilifeform: the queen bee has a biological function.
trinque: and wouldn't a human leader also be said to have a biological function?
trinque: like a social supernode which organizes the activity of other nodes
asciilifeform: it is not clear to me that the fella sitting in ru prison barrack who does not a lick of work, other than organizing circle of thugs to squeeze 2x the normative quota from the poor schmucks, serves a purpose
asciilifeform: any more than a tumour.
trinque: sure but that'd be maybe a degenerate case of the thing
gernika: mircea_popescu can I snag a eulora account?
asciilifeform: trinque: btw it was not clear to the folks who ran the camps, that this naturally-occurring system of hierarchy was a net plus re: net tonnage from the mines. hence the 'vory/suka wars' mircea_popescu referenced, a famous case where su authorities tried to monkey with the 'org chart'
asciilifeform: depending on who you ask - it worked. or didn't.
asciilifeform: (the most notable successes, iirc, were when they hogtied 'blatnoi' leaders and methodically shipped them to distant camps where they would be lowered into pederasty immediately, with all necessary force)
asciilifeform: there were also experiments in imprisoning them together in specially-designated zones where they would be permitted to rapidly kill off one another.
danielpbarron: gernika, join #eulora
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how tyrannical /were/ the Symbolics licenses?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they were ordinary for the time
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'this is the source, no you may not show it to folks who have not bought'
ben_vulpes: sounds eminently reasonable.
asciilifeform: ^ not that it would have done a 'freeloader' much good
asciilifeform: as he doesn't have the hardware
asciilifeform: recall, this was still the tail end of the era where software was just this thing that came with hardware
asciilifeform: like wheels come with a car
ben_vulpes: and the symbolics machines could run c as we
asciilifeform: not only
ben_vulpes: as well*, right? many other languages too.
asciilifeform: even fortran, ada, pascal
asciilifeform: and all could share data structures, even.
asciilifeform: and use the runtime debuggability and repairability (yes)
asciilifeform: ^ yes, you could, potentially, repair and ~uncrash~ a crashed process
ben_vulpes wonders at the notion of runtime debuggability of c-through-lisp
asciilifeform: the trick is that it wasn't c-on-cmachine
ben_vulpes: but c in lispm
asciilifeform: but remained internally aware of intended datatypes
asciilifeform: and bounds
asciilifeform: afaik there were not many cases of c proggies being used in practice on lispm
asciilifeform: it was more of a thing one might want to do if really need to use a page from 'numerical recipes in c' verbatim in a hurry, etc.
asciilifeform: using c on lispm did not win you anything in any other case. it is rather like starting a campfire on the floor of your kitchen
ben_vulpes: myeah, i can see that. how would it have handled modern nixy proggies?
asciilifeform: yes, if you provisioned for this, poured concrete floor - you can.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: afaik no one was ever dumb enough to demand this.
asciilifeform: it is like asking to not only have campfire, but mammoth hunt, in the kitchen.
asciilifeform: lispm was only possible because 'consumers have come to expect' was not fully a thing yet.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i also can't help but laugh a bit at the phrase 'modern nixy proggies' - we're sorta stuck in 1968 state of the art...
asciilifeform: and talking about how nifty it would be to get 1978 state of the art.
asciilifeform: how come nobody asks how well 1958 state of the art would handle on unix ? the batch proggies, on punched cardboard ?
ben_vulpes: okay okay!
asciilifeform: btw, speaking of software licenses, anyone recall mircea_popescu's anarchist license ?
asciilifeform: 'no you may not use this code, except if you piss on law'
asciilifeform: i recently thought of an equally-ceremonial 'software license'. would go roughly like this,
asciilifeform: 'this program may be redistributed provided that 1) this notice and 2) the original copy of $program, with my pgp signature thereof - are included; and any changes you made to $program must be represented in the form of a vdiff patch signed with a pgp key registered in the Web of Trust.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3488 @ 0.00069961 = 2.4402 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: if anyone here has the muscles to turn this concoction into a formula which might threaten to work in traditional courts, in some major country - go right ahead.
asciilifeform: would be interesting to see.
ben_vulpes: nah, we don't traditional courts.
asciilifeform: (on a sane planet, you won't need lawsuits to enforce this. no reasonable person will run code that doesn't have a wot signature)
ben_vulpes: right, and there's why.
ben_vulpes: the wot solves another problem.
asciilifeform: but it would be an interesting ceremonial flag, in the spirit of mircea_popescu's license thing.
ben_vulpes: perhaps "you may not share your patches with anyone else who does not have a license for my original copy of $p"
ben_vulpes: as, of course, verified by your signing a license to their key.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this is asking for mountains of 'mother may i' spamola
ben_vulpes: howso?
asciilifeform: it only makes sense if folks are paying.
asciilifeform: ~i~ don't have time to sit and issue 'licenses' to 10,000,000 schmucks
ben_vulpes: no but if they pay.
asciilifeform: but nobody's paying me.
asciilifeform: not for anything interesting, at any rate
ben_vulpes: you've not made anything worth paying for, then.
asciilifeform: evidently.
ben_vulpes: market, admittedly, is /tiny/.
asciilifeform: perhaps ben_vulpes can become the hero who makes that unicorn, a software worth paying for..
ben_vulpes: oh it's even harder than that, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: it has to be commercially viable in this wot.
ben_vulpes: regarding the "may i" spamola, you could issue a license to a trivially-generated pubkey.
ben_vulpes: degenerate case.
asciilifeform: but what's that get me ?
ben_vulpes: some sort of parity with extant licensing schemes.
asciilifeform: parity ?!!
ben_vulpes: wrong word!
ben_vulpes to food
asciilifeform: i mean, why would i want to do ~any~ per-user work in distributing something ~for free~ ?!
asciilifeform: it'd be like those crackpot bums who stand on street corners and beg folks to take their self-published 'book'
trinque: that speaks more to the "for free" than to the work, doesn't it?
asciilifeform: trinque: aha
asciilifeform: trinque: but we have yet to establish that there is or could be such a thing as software that is genuinely worth paying for
asciilifeform: if there is, ~i~ certainly am not blessed with the gift of crapping it out
asciilifeform: and wouldn't know anything useful to add
asciilifeform: to the conversation
asciilifeform: !s pay for sunlight
assbot: 0 results for 'pay for sunlight' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pay+for+sunlight
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:48; mircea_popescu: the idea here being that people wouldn't pay for a sane os for the same reason they won't payfor the sun.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:23; mircea_popescu: mkay. lemme explain something about markets to you. the sun is infinitely valuable, to the exclusion of all else. nobody (tm) would consider paying for it, and in no case would they pay anything close to fair value (why this is so should be thermodynamically obvious). meanwhile, ipads have no utility and go for hundreds by the million. on top of them, jackpot machine simulations sell for more $$$.
trinque: could instead decide that you'll use your software powers to cynically crap out anything with a price tag.
trinque: meanwhile inside the company building tools to make the crapping ever easier
asciilifeform: that's sorta what people do now
trinque: yep.
asciilifeform: it isn't especially interesting to talk about, imho
trinque: well, that seems to be the only way to amass the capital to do interesting things, at least from where I sit.
asciilifeform: and as i gather, most of the folks involved on anything but the ultra-successful 'lottery winner' end of it, want out.
danielpbarron: asciilifeform> perhaps ben_vulpes can become the hero who makes that unicorn, a software worth paying for.. << Eulora bots.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 14:17:13; mircea_popescu: and yes, the "scam money rots your brain" think is also a very powerful theory.
phf: graham and naggum are probably not the best examples of lispers. graham wrote cgi scripts for clisp in vi and had unhealthy obsession with macros, did a web startup and sold it at the right time. naggum if he was a little bit dumber would've just been a kook, considering his completely insane angry rants. (and i learned a lot from naggum, but i don't think the manner of his death was a surprise)
phf: there's greenblatt, tom knight, david moon, daniel weinreb, guy steele, peter norvig, abelson&sussman, jack holloway. stallman and minsky. not to mention cracauer, eller, fahlman, maclachlan, rme, ron garret of the later people that i know of, tons of people i'm forgetting.
trinque: every business on earth needs tools to classify and count their things, and to answer useful questions with this information.
trinque: and the tools are all shit
phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies
trinque: I could see a scheme where you make a general solution to that problem which you do not sell.
trinque: you derive specific solutions and sell those
asciilifeform: phf: mircea_popescu has a marked tendency to go with lenin's 'intelligentsia is not the nation's head but its arsehole'
asciilifeform: trinque: go and sell 'it' if it doesn't read&write microshit excel format. i'll watch.
trinque: why can't it?
asciilifeform: trinque: aha, it can ?! now you're married to microshit. because there is no way of reliably speaking the format in any and all cases except by linking their libs
asciilifeform: and using their dev environment and joke of an os.
asciilifeform: 'consumer has come to expect !!'
trinque: yeah but you're thinking like a scientist
trinque: this needs no perfect solution to be better than what's available
trinque: just "I can count all my damn beakless chickens" and so on
trinque: and it farts out reports I give to my accountant
asciilifeform: trinque: it isn't about 'perfect' but about eschewing pederasty.
trinque: right, you're a scientist. meanwhile I'd love to have the market on traffic cones cornered.
asciilifeform: go, corner.
asciilifeform: usually you find that there is a reason why nobody gets to be 'next microshit' every year.
asciilifeform: same reason you won't get to be 'the next exxon'
asciilifeform: or 'next halliburton'
trinque: ah but who wants to be that big and bloated
trinque: can make a fine pile for yourself in some niche nobody ever heard of
asciilifeform: go, make
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu potentially interesting observation: dulap has been ~50 blocks behind semi-permanently since reboot. in as far as i can tell, it is not mainly from 'blackholing' but due to cpu starvation! on account of phuctor re-grinding the product...!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255852 << i will let mircea_popescu explain himself, by himself, but iirc this thread began long ago with the mention of an infamous paper, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/codemonkey.pdf (mirror)
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:40:56; phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies
asciilifeform: 'Group Responses to Specially Skilled Individuals in a Macaca fascicularis Group' (Stammbach 1988)
asciilifeform: ^ not even re: chimps! funny how forgot this
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, qq: are you going to post the modified vdiff.sh (creation of vpatch w/o timestamps) to the ml, or will it be included with your next submission of the full working solution?
asciilifeform: mod6: it was posted!
mod6: Oh it was?!
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: phf: the animals were placed in a room where there was a set of levers, which, if pulled correctly, would dispense food. result was that, at any given time, a handful learned to pull the lever, but would not get to eat the treats. instead, would be beaten for non-performance by the others if they stopped.
asciilifeform: phf: the paper became a 'viral meme' and nicknamed 'codemonkey paper'
asciilifeform: on account of the resemblance to human programmers, engineers, and other 'slave artisans' who build civilization but are rarely seen in mercedes
mod6: so i see, obv., the one that was submitted with The Full Orchestra, but i don't see your updated one that looks like:
mod6: #!/bin/bash
mod6: diff -uNr \$1 \$2 | awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/{s="sha512sum \"" \$2 "\" 2>/dev/null " | getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print \$1 " " \$2 " " o} !m { print \$0 }'
mod6: bah, well disregard the above -- as this came from my orc.sh script with escaped shell vars, but you get the point i think.
phf: иваныч суконах у мартышек то все как у человеков
asciilifeform: mod6 is right, i think
asciilifeform: it was never formally posted with signature.
asciilifeform: go figure.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255824 << no per-user work, just a single pubkey to which anyone could find the corresponding privkey
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:35:24; asciilifeform: i mean, why would i want to do ~any~ per-user work in distributing something ~for free~ ?!
ben_vulpes: a la deedbot
phf: by the way that script above needs a close i.e. ... if (s) { close(s); ...
punkman: asciilifeform: trinque: go and sell 'it' if it doesn't read&write microshit excel format. i'll watch. << I've written lots of these, it's called .csv
phf: i think gnu awk closes implicitly but a bsd one keeps the fd's open and eventually runs into open file limits
asciilifeform: punkman: not same thing
asciilifeform: punkman: not if 'customer who expects' shows up with a microshit document with formatting, etc.
asciilifeform: and you know ~exactly~ what i mean
punkman: asciilifeform: customer can learn to export csv or fuck off most of the time
asciilifeform: aha so why not also ask him to bring s-expression or fuck off
asciilifeform: and before long, you're naggum
mod6: I'm currently working on the SoBA to close out the month, would like to point at the vdiff.sh that creats w/o timestamps in the document. Only reason that I bring it up. Thanks for taking a look. Wasn't sure if I missed it somehow.
asciilifeform: and working on ulcer
trinque: because the CSV one requires him no work but to change the save-as type, or w/e
punkman: if excel did s-expr, sure why not
trinque: also this is a matter of sales, not education
ben_vulpes: sometimes one goes to a cafe to meet a customer instead of demanding they come to ones office.
asciilifeform: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
trinque: neat
deedbot-: accepted: 1
punkman: on a similar note, customer asks for mongodb, but "I used sqlite because you are retarded"
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 20:00:15; trinque: because the CSV one requires him no work but to change the save-as type, or w/e
asciilifeform: and you know it.
asciilifeform: 'i want the boldface, italics, and cat pictures retained !!!1111'
asciilifeform: see also the 'gimp and photoshop' thread from a few wks ago.
ben_vulpes: this is rank nonsense.
ben_vulpes: go talk to the cfo about the cat pictures.
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:13:22; asciilifeform: that does not work with gimp.
asciilifeform: my point is that the craftsman DOES NOT GET TO REDEFINE THE JOB
trinque: I gotta run for a bit unfortunately.
trinque: but the consultant does.
asciilifeform: not unless the customer agrees.
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6 et al: http://dpaste.com/1PHPHRE.txt << ok thanks, I can just point at the deedbot submission then.
asciilifeform: mod6: it will be part of the formal release of 'v'. but for now, can use this.
ben_vulpes: in a healthy relationship, the consultant keeps the customer from making bad decisions in areas in which the customer has no business making decisions.
asciilifeform: vdiff will not change.
mod6: asciilifeform: sounds good. thanks for doing that.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: take me to this planet of 'healthy relationships.'
mod6: trinque: just have to wait until next block before it shows up in the deedbot.org list?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: vdiff is 0k!
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can't, you'd poison 'em.
trinque: mod6: shall pop out at the next hour
asciilifeform: and they won't even be able to eat my corpse, wrong-chirality proteins
mod6: trinque: fantastic. thanks.
trinque: it's rather dumb, doesn't watch for blocks in the log, though that'd be nice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9192 @ 0.0007193 = 6.6118 BTC [+]
mod6: this thing has a cool 0x00FF00 && 0x000000 website
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255945 << lol, how big did ben_vulpes think it to be ?
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 20:04:49; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: vdiff is 0k!
mod6: 'solid green' ?!
punkman: trinque: would deedbot notice a bundle tx that got reorg'd out of main chain?
ben_vulpes: 0K, i mean.
ben_vulpes: eg 'fully annealed'
mod6 ribs trinque a bit :D
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: actually don't be so sure. it is almost certainly possible to shorten it.
ben_vulpes: call it 3K then.
asciilifeform: approximately.
phf: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: take me to this planet of 'healthy relationships.' << i am equally confused by this position. non serviam doesn't necessarily need to translate to its extreme expression. if you're that figured out how to push the lever, i think the last option that you can possibly have is to keep pushing the lever for others. once you accept it to its logical conclusion, are you not free to do as you please?
trinque: mod6: I LIKE GREEN OK?
trinque: lol
phf: *that monkey
trinque departs for a bit
asciilifeform: phf: mircea_popescu seems to suggest that if korolev, etc. were real men, they would have killed themselves instead of serving the hated master.
mod6: lol, the css 'solid green', appears slightly different tone than 0x00FF00 on thebitcoin.foundation, or is it just my eldery eyes?
phf: sure, korolev was tested by that limit, and i'm not in his position, so i can't say "сука буду i've offed myself", but when the choice is between doing csv and sexp for a customer..
asciilifeform: it is almost always more like csv vs sexp.
mod6: anyway, not that it need be the same. just curious.
asciilifeform: at least, at individual steps of the way.
asciilifeform: and it also turns out that for some reason the folks who are very excellent at non serviam - don't program. (napoleon's work in geometry notwithstanding...)
asciilifeform: for instance, iirc mircea_popescu was also pretty handy at mathematics as a young man. but notice that we do not come here to learn mathematics from him.
asciilifeform: but instead other things.
ben_vulpes: i do not get the 'non serviam' routine. we all serve the khan.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the correct setting for the gedankenexperiment is 'serve usg or take the cyanide'
asciilifeform: or, more appropriately to the case at hand, 'program pc or don't program'
ben_vulpes: phf: holy hell it runs
phf: :>
asciilifeform: what runs..?
phf bows
asciilifeform: i suspect that folks who are child prodigies at programming people (esp. programming the female of the species) do not usually end up having the patience to seriously deal with machines
asciilifeform: considering how the latter is almost inescapably a less-rewarding affair than the former
asciilifeform: one does not become an artisan 'from a good life', as some kind of voluntary choice, imho
asciilifeform: erwin schrodinger, famously, did his physics almost as just a thing to fill the time between random fucks. but he was not enough 'non serviam' nietzschean superman to avoid sucking hitler's cock (unsuccessfully !!) and having to run for his life
assbot: Logged on 26-05-2015 17:45:33; ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Miscellany:Confession_to_the_F%C3%BChrer << schrödinger's shameful letter. english.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00071112 = 8.0712 BTC [-]
phf: bakunin has equally shameful confessions written to nicholas i
asciilifeform: phf: iirc this began as a thread about r. ulbricht's shameful plea for mercy to the judge
phf: ah
phf: well, in the case ulbricht his plea was dumb, the point which you guys consistently drive in other cases
asciilifeform: there is a long history of tales re: folks having conversations with (personified) Death, and asking her 'not now, why me, ...' etc
asciilifeform: i see the ulbricht plea, and schrodinger's, etc. as similar
asciilifeform: rather than any kind of rational undertaking
phf: right, also same point at which aaronsw chose to off himself
asciilifeform: it is why the fact that (in american courts) the plea never really ~works~ does not affect its popularity
asciilifeform: it is just something people ~do~, like the boyars impaled by ivan iv famously screaming 'god save the tsar' as their arses stretched
phf: no atheists in foxholes and all that
asciilifeform: since we're on the subject, i do not regard it as a proven fact that schwartz tied the rope by himself
gernika: !rate phf 2 got Eulora working on McOs
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1aa82966741c75a7
mircea_popescu: !rated gernika
assbot: You rated user gernika on 04-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you measure exactly how much it is impacted ?
mod6: ;;later tell davout You did test out rotor w/TEST2 or stator this month right? Or did I mis-remember that?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i read it b4. iirc we had it in chan even
mod6: ;;later tell punkman You did test out rotor w/TEST2 or stator this month right? Or did I mis-remember that?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: ;;later tell jurov You did test out rotor w/TEST2 or stator this month right? Or did I mis-remember that?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: <--- bad memory
jurov: no i was too busy and then on afk vacation
mod6: ah. ok. np. thanks!
mod6: how's it goin anywya?
punkman: mod6: I tested stator on Mint. didn't leave it running for full sync though
mod6: punkman: hey! glad i asked. thanks :]
mod6: i guess i do remember this now.
mod6: chettty & mircea_popescu: btw, eulora seems to be functioning well since changes. although, i don't use any automation in there. just good ole hard rock minin' by hand. with a mule^H^H^H^Himproved pickaxe.
mod6: punkman: any specfic version of mint?
trinque: punkman: I have not handled that case. As I understand it, transactions would then go back into the mempool for inclusion in a subsequent block.
trinque: I could run over all previous records at some long-ish interval and see whether that occurred, update db accordingly.
mod6: ;;later tell danielpbarron You did test out rotor w/TEST2 or stator this month right? Or did I mis-remember that?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: mod6: mint 13-14 or so
mod6: jaja
danielpbarron: i made a binary but i didn't execute it
mod6: i'll put that in there. "Linux Mint, 13-14ish." :P
mod6: danielpbarron: still have it? try to fire it up see if it it rotates.
trinque: mine rotates nicely
trinque: with the LC_ALL=C
mod6: yup, that's required on every system that i've encountered when built with the `rotor'.
danielpbarron: what does it mean to rotate?
mod6: just see if you can get it to start up and sync some blox
danielpbarron: Bitcoin version 0.5.4-beta << I'm currently running this, made with the rotor instructions
mod6: this should do the trick: `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 &`
danielpbarron: and it is up to height=281399
mod6: ah, ok. was it a handrolled build or stator?
punkman: anyone try the final debug_sanity_part1 patch?
mod6: but built with rotor, cool. what OS?
danielpbarron: gentoo made with trinque's script
mod6: punkman: naw, i haevn't had a chance yet. i'll get to it though, it's on my list.
mod6: danielpbarron: ah neat. kthx
punkman: I might work on part2 this week
mod6: punkman: ah, cool.
punkman: also thinking of making a fork that doesn't mine/wallet
mod6 looks
mod6: ah, gravy, thanks.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1256010 << if you specify what exactly ought to be measured, i might be able to do it
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 20:43:25; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you measure exactly how much it is impacted ?
asciilifeform: recall that we don't exactly have a deterministic system here.
asciilifeform: or even a quantifiably-stochastic one
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 21:09:21; mod6: this should do the trick: `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 &`
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:22:08; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: dulap rebooted today for no reason known to me.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:48:13; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu potentially interesting observation: dulap has been ~50 blocks behind semi-permanently since reboot. in as far as i can tell, it is not mainly from 'blackholing' but due to cpu starvation! on account of phuctor re-grinding the product...!
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu dulap is a quad-core machine. current 'werker' (phuctor) uses strictly a single core, at the maximum. but what is happening appears to be bus cycle starvation (shared cores share a cache; and at any rate all processes share a single ram bus)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: why shit where phuctor eats?
asciilifeform: punkman: because hosting is very expensive.
asciilifeform: and neither phuctor nor therealbitcoin bring in any revenue
asciilifeform: phuctor and the node are run as a public service.
asciilifeform: for no especially good reason other than that i felt like it, and mircea_popescu saw it fit to supply a machine (via subcontractor) out of his own (for now) pocket
asciilifeform: this is YET AGAIN the 'can't charge for sunlight' thing !!
asciilifeform: there is no way in heaven or hell that either of those things could ever pay for itself.
asciilifeform: kinda like a lighthouse.
asciilifeform: can't exactly charge the ships, for the light.
trinque: seems science requires a patron, or at least greatly benefits from one.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu had not donated the cpu cycles, the thing would still be sitting on aws and being essentially useless
asciilifeform: i, on the other hand, donated my spare time, of which i don't actually have very much.
asciilifeform: (contrary to what some may think.)
asciilifeform: (not all spare time is created equal. i'm both free from paying work AND awake enough to program, for perhaps a few hours a month!)
asciilifeform fantasizes about 'sleep ad libitum' for a reason. he has a ~26 hour circadian rhythm.
asciilifeform: punkman: since you asked, it also doesn't hurt to point out that both phuctor and the node MUST HAVE reasonably-cpu-and-ram-rich PHYSICAL machine.
asciilifeform: no virtualized crapolade.
asciilifeform: experimentally demonstrated that neither runs ADEQUATELY (much less with any degree of trust!) without this condition being met.
asciilifeform: in fact, phuctor is presently NOT getting enough oxygen to live, as per http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255136
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:47:55; mircea_popescu: i think the latter kids don't really grok this "don't reboot machine " thing
asciilifeform: it really needs a box with internal battery backup and ~30 minute hardware warning on powerfail.
asciilifeform: that or a civilized data center with battery AND diesel
trinque: ^ that point about the kids these days and rebooting, bleh. no kidding.
asciilifeform: all of this could be had, but FOR A PRICE
asciilifeform: and the budget is approx. $0.
trinque: oh ruby just leaks memory, of course it does
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:48:54; mircea_popescu: dulap may be the latest piece of software in actual use that doesn't actually benefit from periodic rebooting
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:49:45; asciilifeform: not only does it not, but it absolutely impossible to do anything re: the running product having to be recalculated on warmup without 1) increasing complexity 25x 2) slowing down processing palpably
trinque: yeah, you want a ton of fast RAM, I'd assume, and not want to be writing to disk constantly
asciilifeform: understand, the running-product is an integer, presently ~1GByte in size.
mircea_popescu: cool mod6
asciilifeform: it changes ENTIRELY every single time a modulus is processed !
mircea_popescu: meanwhile grass is desperately needed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "how much cpu does it have available while floating 50 blocks behind"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: strictly cpu cycles? the answer depends on whether anyone is querying the db
asciilifeform: hence, from 75% to 0
mircea_popescu: i dunno what the proper item to measure is.
mircea_popescu: perhaps it actually is l1 cache access
mircea_popescu: but in no small part (to answer punkman's q) this experiment is interesting to me specifically to see how well things do in cramped spaces.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also im pretty sure power didn't actually fail. derpy kids doing things to fix things etc.
trinque: !up Pierre_Rochard
trinque: !up gabriel_laddel
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 21:45:00; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also im pretty sure power didn't actually fail. derpy kids doing things to fix things etc.
asciilifeform: all i know is that the fucking box lost mains power.
asciilifeform: whether because devils pulled cable out of my box individually, or whole rack, or entire warehouse - i cannot know
mircea_popescu: mmm i thought it was rebooted.
asciilifeform: there is no way to do this cleanly without root pw.
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
asciilifeform: Tue Aug 25 23:17 - crash (2+16:29)
asciilifeform: reboot system boot 2.6.32-431.el6.x Fri Aug 28 15:47 - 18:00 (1+02:12)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1256108 << empirically, it does very poorly. though, interestingly, i am reading the log now and may have discovered another force at work
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 21:44:26; mircea_popescu: but in no small part (to answer punkman's q) this experiment is interesting to me specifically to see how well things do in cramped spaces.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: node often fails to process incoming messages in a timely manner, at heavy load, and possibly ends up shitlisted
asciilifeform: this is an entirely separate kind of resource starvation from 'takes too long to verify blocks'
asciilifeform: essentially the node ddos issue was never really solved
asciilifeform: only swept under carpet
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not kvm either!!!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: still need the root login to CLEANLY reboot the machine
asciilifeform: and you will notice that no such thing happened
asciilifeform: 'crash' means that there was no proper shutdown.
asciilifeform: this means one of two things: a) thermal breaker b) mains current lost
mod6: ive got grass
mod6: lemme check the horde
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nothing suggestive of thermal overload in the logs, either
asciilifeform: (thing does appear to have sensors)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps you understand now why the alarm. there is NO LEGIT REASON for that thing to ever cycle.
jurov: or case resonates with passing trains
jurov: (happened irl)
asciilifeform: many things happened irl.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that if it were somehow the case that trilema goes down for weeks-to-a-month every time it loses power, it would also lose power with some regularity...
asciilifeform: monkeys will try to pull out the cable, and the only solution is a man with an axe standing there and chopping their hands off, every time.
asciilifeform: i am reminded of the old thread re: mpex disk drives.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even if you were speaking of the kind of kvm which has a power relay, it remains to be asked WHAT KIND OF TARD would flip the relay on a customer's box without written permission
asciilifeform: it is only by a stroke of luck that therealbitcoin did not perma-wedge from corrupt db, also.
asciilifeform: ^ and this may even have been the objective of the switch-flipping monkey
asciilifeform: if this were a project with an actual budget, and the machine were colocated, i would include a lithium-cell-powered MAINS LOGGER in there. and then WELD IT SHUT with own hands
asciilifeform: as it is, it eats table scraps, yes.
jurov: !s bisp
assbot: 11 results for 'bisp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bisp
asciilifeform: jurov: this ~was~ the inaugural 'bisp' machine, recall.
jurov: yea, was going to write that exactly
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is paying somebody a pretty penny for that thing. and i am coming to think that he is getting scammed.
asciilifeform: i'm not really getting scammed because i personally did not pay.
asciilifeform: gift horse.
asciilifeform: but the legs are coming off this horse.
asciilifeform: and every time i 'park' it, when i come back its starfish is full of boulders
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 18:28:39; mircea_popescu: greatness doens't get to skip a generation./
gabriel_laddel: Norm Hardy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7850 @ 0.00071136 = 5.5842 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i<asciilifeform> only swept under carpet << of course.
mircea_popescu: the nsa approach to software issues is not "how can we fix this" but "how can we pretend this is fixed while really we can just keep it in sleeve for later because you never know". fnargl through and through.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes well i have nobody with an axe to ship there rightnao
mircea_popescu: and i don't think i've not gotten scammed for any item i bought or service i hired since at least 1875.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3548 @ 0.00071136 = 2.5239 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel o hey there. how's life in
mircea_popescu: masamuneland
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7340 @ 0.00071112 = 5.2196 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The economics of sinking Garzikcoin aka BIP 100. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/29/the-economics-of-sinking-garzikcoin-aka-bip-100/
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I work a lot but have a new crush. 5/10?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: how is Ar?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12940 @ 0.00070893 = 9.1736 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00071946 = 8.2378 BTC [+] {5}
gabriel_laddel: !up shovel_boss
gabriel_laddel: !up moonpunter
shovel_boss: thanks for nothing
shovel_boss: this register and login system with your bot sucks
shovel_boss: fuck off
gabriel_laddel: !down shovel_boss
mircea_popescu: pretty stupid.
gabriel_laddel: ewww troglodyte photobomb
gabriel_laddel: troglodyte male in the background ruins photo :/
mircea_popescu: it's just some dude...
gabriel_laddel: but his face!
mircea_popescu: not like you HAVE TO fuck EVERYONE in the pic
moonpunter: ya'll cray
gabriel_laddel: ;; ud cray
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cray | cray. Another word for crazy. An abbreviation that you can use to describe a crazy person. That one cray bitch. She be cray. Why are you acting so cray?
moonpunter: gribble's always doing stuff.
gabriel_laddel: GODDAMNIT MP HOW IS ARGENTINA
gabriel_laddel: moonpunter: also what
moonpunter picks nose, hides under table
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> pretty stupid. <<
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: more specifically, I'd love to hear more about the justice system some time
mircea_popescu: pretty much a copy of the 1996 ru justice system.
mircea_popescu: overdrawn but unenforceable "rights" of the common man, endless trials, complete disjunction between law and commerce, the works.
gabriel_laddel: Do you have a database of all the judges, the lawyers who frequent their courts etc?
gabriel_laddel: or is such a thing for sale
mircea_popescu: and a deeply ignorant population which imagines its vague notions of ethics and fairness are worth two shits, mostly through being so useless and inept that they never get to check said in any sort of practice.
mircea_popescu: such a thing is not for sale past what you get publicly anyway, the bar has a list.
moonpunter: never understood the "commoner" paradigm. what is this a magic deck? if so, i'm a ltd. ed. rare holofoil, bitches.
gabriel_laddel: !down moonpunter
gabriel_laddel: read the logs?
mircea_popescu: moonpunter pretty much anyone not in a liberal
mircea_popescu: profession or otherwise indepedently rich = commoner
mircea_popescu: in a generous reading, students and other tramps are somehow in a liberal profession.
moonpunter: eh. i think your life is defined by your achievements. nothing against those with a lot, nothing against those with nothing. nothing against helping others by choice. etc. i just don't feel strongly about any of it. spend too much time selfishly focusing on my own life, i thinks.
mircea_popescu: achievements start with the first one.
mircea_popescu: which is, economic independence.
mircea_popescu: there are no prior achievements to that
trinque: rather artistic, that one. I like it
trinque: gabriel_laddel: in porn, do not fear the penis
trinque: moonpunter: whatsamatta with selfishness?
gabriel_laddel: trinque: lol, no fear - it just turns me off.
gabriel_laddel: I've a thing for faces.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: how goes btw
trinque: not bad at all; prepping a move back to Texas, enjoying life
trinque: yourself?
gabriel_laddel: trinque: it's in the logs, but work mostly.
pete_dushenski: i have returned !
trinque: good afternoon
pete_dushenski: thanks to all for the well wishes :)
pete_dushenski: i've been mostly keeping up on the logs
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1256216 << indubitably. wouldn't mind reading a trilema on this basis.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 23:38:33; mircea_popescu: achievements start with the first one.
mircea_popescu: it's really unfortunate they don't do presentation anymore.
pete_dushenski: i'm not sure i've been economically independent quite long enough to pen this myself
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu presentation ?
mircea_popescu: i guess there's the texas dip for girls "of society" which means ~jack anymore, and i suppose they still do bar mitzvah in some households but srsly...
pete_dushenski: oh you mean like 'baby naming ceremony'
trinque: sounds more like coming of age.
trinque: "we're going to begin expecting adult things of you now. act like it."
pete_dushenski: 'sweet 16'
mircea_popescu: no i mean like, "here is this worm that came out of my wife. turns out it actually is a person!"
mircea_popescu: as in, presentation of the thing to the forum.
pete_dushenski: 'brit milah'
gabriel_laddel: America is two generations too late for that
mircea_popescu: kinda degenerated into the french bacalaureat, which meanwhile became a "right" dontchaknow
trinque: lewd
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu well, a blog post ~on your own blog~ is pretty much as good as it gets atm
pete_dushenski: we have a short little 'brit milah' tmrw at the synagogue for meatwot (but no briss planned)
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 230.2, Best ask: 230.39, Bid-ask spread: 0.19000, Last trade: 230.39, 24 hour volume: 10095.17439433, 24 hour low: 227.16, 24 hour high: 234.03, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 23:52:36; mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/iPoqOK3xQ2fea7vjSEbbAOTc_500.jpg
asciilifeform: famous!
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell bingoboingo no real opinion of lifted minitrucks. lifting isn't really my thing, per se. but i can see the appeal.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: and people use "natural" like it's a positive thing...
gabriel_laddel: and here I was under the impression stas didn't like penis.
trinque: lol
pete_dushenski: people change
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2DPPY2J.txt )
asciilifeform: don't have to like liver, to use it
hanbot: you don't like liver?
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 22:45:08; mircea_popescu: the nsa approach to software issues is not "how can we fix this" but "how can we pretend this is fixed while really we can just keep it in sleeve for later because you never know". fnargl through and through.
asciilifeform: hanbot: strangely, i liked it as a boy, but no longer..
asciilifeform: odd how food works
hanbot: mp actually eats the stuff. brrr.
pete_dushenski: i ate smoked salmon exlusively for first 3 years, then not again for another 25
trinque now considers that the dick-clam is probably delicious.
trinque: just more clam mantle, right?
assbot: The Nasty Bits: Geoduck | Serious Eats ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ku88RT )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49750 @ 0.00071262 = 35.4528 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: argentina is weird #89546 : the best cognac thing they have here (reserva san juan) retails (IN THE STORE!) for like 80 pesos a bottle.
mircea_popescu: about 5 bux.
mircea_popescu: which makes it "cheap" so no fucking bar ever carries it
mircea_popescu: they carry all the fucktarded imported us shit i wouldn't pour in my drain. beefeather ? srsly ? to what, kill lice with ?
mircea_popescu: they got badly faked mumm, they don't got the local stuff. and god fucking forbid i ask for the best rum in the world (centenario anejo especial) because they don't import it from nearby costa rica
mircea_popescu: they gotta import fucking what's that shit called, captain wedgepants
mircea_popescu: and now in our "the greatness of the atomic family" series, http://41.media.tumblr.com/qoXAtsJnN2fu8lmtQYQqvbcw_1280.jpg
gabriel_laddel: "god fucking forbid i ask for the best rum in the world (centenario anejo especial) because they don't import it from nearby costa rica" << lol
pete_dushenski: spiced 'captain wedgepants' and diet coke is a popular drink in these parts. with men !
pete_dushenski: don't ask me how
pete_dushenski: might be related to 'truck nutz'
mircea_popescu: http://36.media.tumblr.com/njE9Bw4rv2eg33gaji6PkUvx_400.jpg << back when the libertards cared. because bush!
pete_dushenski: !s truck nutz
assbot: 0 results for 'truck nutz' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=truck+nutz
pete_dushenski: !s truck nuts
assbot: 0 results for 'truck nuts' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=truck+nuts
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be fair actual cuban havana club is very good. but so often counterfeit...
pete_dushenski: sikorsky sea king helicopter for gw ? sounds ruskie (yes, i know it isn't)
pete_dushenski: well, sikorsky aircraft is only as 'american' as chevrolet
pete_dushenski: who, yes, was swiss-born
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only nato maker of heavy helicopters that actuallyfly
assbot: Planes, trains, und atomic dirigibles der Schweiz. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1X0o7fq )
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu well nothing could be worse than osprey
pete_dushenski: which makes f-35 program look like challenger
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124450 @ 0.00069583 = 86.596 BTC [-] {9}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2015#1256310 << inventor of modern helicopter. as american as fucking ayn rand.
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2015 00:40:20; pete_dushenski: sikorsky sea king helicopter for gw ? sounds ruskie (yes, i know it isn't)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2015#1256316 << i saw a working 'osprey' for the first time a few weeks ago. my first thought was 'wish i weren't stuck in traffic under that thing'
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2015 00:42:33; pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu well nothing could be worse than osprey
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform define 'working'
asciilifeform: flying low enough to be identified for what it is; did not fall down (at least not where i could see it...)
asciilifeform: though iirc the bug in these things typically shows itself when the propellers flip
assbot: The President Gets a Personal Osprey He's Not Allowed to Use ... ( http://bit.ly/1X0pg6M )
asciilifeform: 'The aircraft is manned by a crew of four—pilot, copilot and two flight engineers—and can carry as many as 32 troops or 20,000 pounds of cargo. Or, in the case of the President's jaunt to Martha's Vineyard last Saturday, a contingent of White House staffers, journalists, and Bo, the president's pooch. But not the president himself. No way, he's not allowed anywhere near this thing.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34466 @ 0.00070936 = 24.4488 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: 'But while they're definitely (relatively) safer than the early versions, the Osprey is still not safe enough to entrust with the leader of the free world's life. As such, the presidential Osprey has not yet been designated a "white top," meaning President Obama is not allowed on board, but is currently undergoing further reliability testing. There's no word on when that will be completed, so for now, it will serve as a $67 mi
asciilifeform: llion pet carrier.'
trinque: The situation wasn't helped any when the program's senior officer, Lt. Col. Odin Lieberman, was relieved of command after an internal investigation discovered that he had instructed his team to falsify records to make the Osprey look safer than they actually were. << heh, he expected that this wouldn't become apparent?
asciilifeform: this at least begins to explain where that machine was going.
asciilifeform: i did not expect to see it from a traffic jam below d.c.
asciilifeform: lol is that gavin ?!
mircea_popescu: his younger, better hung brothar.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.0007044 = 11.9044 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ^^ ????
asciilifeform: was this dropped over vietnam or where
mircea_popescu: nah, short circulation west coast
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1256166 << even if you did, the point i was trying to make is that we have right now this risky situation where running a proper honest node actually costs serious dough, and it is not clear that this cost can ever be recoverable
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 22:45:57; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes well i have nobody with an axe to ship there rightnao
mircea_popescu: dubious if recoverable.
asciilifeform: it is quite conceivable that a node can only be run for the abstract imperial glory of something else, something very lucrative
asciilifeform: and it is not clear to me that there is enough of this to go around
asciilifeform: (in the sense of supporting a healthy network)
asciilifeform: and this is without any megablox idiocy !
asciilifeform: old-fashioned proper bitcoin.
asciilifeform: so what we have going is something like this, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255291
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 13:58:47; mircea_popescu: here's what i propose : paul graham eat 500 calories for every 1k calories he expends.
asciilifeform: call it an energy leak, in the sense of 'memory leak.'
asciilifeform: in the sense that the folks paying for it are not getting anything like their money's worth. and yes, this is true for many activities, from fixing old cars to raising children;
asciilifeform: but they work so long as they fit within 'hobbyist' budget, and the results pass some minimal bar
asciilifeform: running an honest public node is expensive. far more than i realized. and will be getting more so.
asciilifeform: as attacks of every conceivable kind ramp up.
asciilifeform: mains cables will (are!) be mysteriously yanked; fiber - cut
asciilifeform: contracts terminated on technicalities
asciilifeform: plus many, many 'cosmic rays'.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2014#778143 << see thread. turns out, a server is a fortress...
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2014 14:09:33; mircea_popescu: all the other atms in the world are inside an invisible fortress.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2014 03:06:22; mircea_popescu: specifically : an atm requires a fortress. we have not yet built the fortress. when we do, you will know we have, because i will kidnap a number of "world leaders" wives and daughters to be publicly raped there as to make the fucking point that in fact it IS a fortress.
trinque: heh, brave new books.
trinque: that's austin
trinque: alex jones central, it is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14753 @ 0.00070245 = 10.3632 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: and there are people working on making running a node 10,000+ times more expensive....
asciilifeform: (and will try to make it look cheaper by selective vandalism of folks who do not go along. algo used by all states at all times.)
asciilifeform: it is telling that, of my three therealbitcoin nodes, the only one which has not suffered an unexplained malfunction of any kind is the one which is where i can personally see it !!
asciilifeform: (zoolag)
asciilifeform: has never fallen behind, spontaneously, by so much as one block (the one notable exception was the day when the db locks thing wedged ~every~ honest node)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39650 @ 0.00069444 = 27.5345 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform atm node seems more akin to soda fountain
mircea_popescu: you run that in your teenage hoisiery shop because that's what the teenage hussies want.
mircea_popescu also wants to introduce by reference the discussion of "for honor" and slavegirks
mircea_popescu: but in any case : it's not clear we can't stick it in pogo. so... there is that.
mircea_popescu: of course, the people trying to get that to work (davout, jurov, etc) aren't getting that much support yet.
mircea_popescu: but i reckon the whole shebang "here, do this this this" list is getting closer.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the principal item missing is a sane txpool
asciilifeform: everything else is purely a matter of rebuilding as per my original recipe, but rotorized.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4234 @ 0.00070936 = 3.0034 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: now that libc is shot in the head, it builds ~and~ runs.
asciilifeform: but the 'infinite pile of tx until fills ram' is a no-go;
asciilifeform: and the store-block-index-in-ram-at-all-times is also a no-go.
assbot: [BTC-dev] Results of First 'Deterministic Sync' Experiment, With Memory Consumption Plots. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKmuPH )
asciilifeform: ~300 byte per block.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is not clear to me, at this juncture, that a network consisting ~largely of~ items like pogos could function under sustained load
mircea_popescu: define network, function and load.
asciilifeform: network - bitcoin. function - propagate blocks, transactions, as traditionally expected. load - sustained attack from every usg orc on the fucking planet, plus legitimate users.
mircea_popescu: network in terms of nodecount, function in terms of maximal packet loss you admit and load in terms of saturation.
mircea_popescu: you know, like the internet.,
asciilifeform: saturation presumably 100%
mircea_popescu: not like this shiot's either novel or uncalculable.
asciilifeform: there is also the part where a half-arsed node, when feeding a miner, leads to orphaning and going broke
asciilifeform: (not today, when there is 25btc 'on the sidewalk' - but tomorrow, when there is not)
mircea_popescu: im seriously not concerned. the thing designed, if implemented, will be fine.
asciilifeform: what's next, copro?
mircea_popescu: no penis!
asciilifeform: whole thing is a penis.
asciilifeform: like geoduck.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2015#1256413 << therein lies the boojum. implemented by whom? when ?
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2015 02:29:22; mircea_popescu: im seriously not concerned. the thing designed, if implemented, will be fine.
mircea_popescu: dun worry so much bout that part.
asciilifeform: 'freedom bricks' << l0l!!
mircea_popescu: see below for kit.
asciilifeform: gotta love the key lock
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00070936 = 11.1724 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2015#1256426 << why, are you gonna do it? because thus far every single bit that involved serious surgery on therealbitcoin just sorta sat there until i did it.
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2015 02:32:10; mircea_popescu: dun worry so much bout that part.
asciilifeform: i would ~like~ for this to change, yes
asciilifeform: this thing ~will~ have to work without my pushing it, if only after i am shot - which, for all i know, could be scheduled for monday
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41832 @ 0.00070071 = 29.3121 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25868 @ 0.00069249 = 17.9133 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel so've you asked her out yet?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
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