Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-06-13 | 2015-06-15 → ↓
mircea_popescu: lol and when's the click-ad thing expire ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00037373 = 5.3443 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27957 @ 0.00039227 = 10.9667 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2743 @ 0.00041148 = 1.1287 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: next year huh.
cazalla: yeah nothing really, couple of sleeps
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00041202 = 2.6781 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00040378 = 8.116 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7762 @ 0.00040276 = 3.1262 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00039099 = 2.1113 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00039187 = 1.2736 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.0003752 = 5.5905 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34650 @ 0.00038933 = 13.4903 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00037967 = 2.8096 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12450 @ 0.00039004 = 4.856 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00037967 = 1.4617 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13152 @ 0.00039004 = 5.1298 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34300 @ 0.0003736 = 12.8145 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00037126 = 8.0192 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7531 @ 0.00038839 = 2.925 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14118 @ 0.00039004 = 5.5066 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00038928 = 3.4257 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00038928 = 10.9777 BTC [-]
mats: www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/world/europe/us-poised-to-put-heavy-weaponry-in-east-europe.html
assbot: Dennis Yurichev: 13-Jun-2015: Modular arithmetic + division by multiplication + reversible LCG (PRNG) + cracking LCG with Z3. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQ84vm )
asciilifeform: mats: good intro to subj. recall, perhaps in childhood, drawing 'random' pixels to screen, with atrocious prng ? could see pattern with naked eye.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-06-2015#1163764 << lol, do we get a newspiece every time this happens? 'you're older than you've ever been and now you're even older, ..., and now you're older still!' (tm) (r)
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2015 05:16:21; scoopbot_revived: Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Hits An All Time High http://qntra.net/2015/06/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-hits-an-all-time-high/
kakobrekla: lol alf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00039004 = 6.3186 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00038873 = 6.2586 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00038632 = 5.5437 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40650 @ 0.00039145 = 15.9124 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33798 @ 0.00039565 = 13.3722 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu who was that fella a while back who wanted to set up a btc-denominated market for reverse-engineered/leaked specs? (think, easily verifiable...!) and did it go anywhere ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33788 @ 0.00040546 = 13.6997 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean the trivia bot ?
asciilifeform: wai wat
asciilifeform: trivia bot ?
asciilifeform: !s trivia bot
assbot: 1 results for 'trivia bot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=trivia+bot
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2015 01:46:51; HeySteve: yes, I was thinking trivia contests - maybe for BTC - would be fun
asciilifeform: not related except in a hopelessly vague sense
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00040662 = 1.3012 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23446 @ 0.00038952 = 9.1327 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: or so you'd like to think.
asciilifeform: i'd -like- to think there is a connection. just not sure what it is, quite yet.
jurov: reverse-engineered/leaked specs ==== trivia?
mircea_popescu: the connection i see is that the proposition of this market is about as silly as the proposition of the trivia bot. there are fundamental differences between what a market is and what an assassination market is.
asciilifeform: it is trickier than first appears, because 'i want the s00p3r-s33kr1t floor plan for $fpga' is turing-complete (that is, whether the trade was an honest one is not resolvable by machine)
mircea_popescu: contrary to public idiocy, bitcoin's not particularly adequate to the latter. then again, public idiocy thought trains go too fast so it'll make passengers asphixiate out of lack of oxigen and cars explode.
asciilifeform: and so more or less what mircea_popescu said
mircea_popescu: but the market you propose, like the market which consists of assassins, like the market which consists of whores, is eminently NOT a market like the market that consists of grain, or ddram chips.
asciilifeform: and yes, it'd be a kind of 'assassination' and therefore doesn't work in a public wot, and therefore - at all...
mircea_popescu: they have a lot of common characteristics, yes, and the people "in" like to joke about it and pretend it's "the same". but... it is not.
mircea_popescu: it works privately. there ~are~ dudes who get girlies to throw their soaking wet panties at them
mircea_popescu: just, not you, and not for the being.
asciilifeform: aha, can't buy $magic.
mircea_popescu: some can.
mircea_popescu: but that some is important and it falsifies a ~fundamental~ property of markets.
asciilifeform: arguable that they didn't buy it, but only magic-amplifier
mircea_popescu: exactly.
asciilifeform: already had magic.
asciilifeform: the reason i asked is not that i was whacked with a club over the head and turned into a tard overnight, but that instead i was thinking of certain very limited special cases of jurov's suggested '0day prize box'
asciilifeform: where, e.g., 'get btc if you can get this chip, connected to the net, to execute undocumented instruction'
mircea_popescu: it is obviously new territory all this
mircea_popescu: well you might have noticed i AM making experiments in that province.
asciilifeform: somewhere in eulora ?
mircea_popescu: no lol, somewhere on trilema
asciilifeform must have missed this ?
mircea_popescu: eh it's all over teh place :)
asciilifeform: i was speaking specifically of an automated system (riding on wot, naturally, for the 'why should i potentially waste valuable $secret' bit)
mircea_popescu: ah, i wasn't. an' i'm not about to link the theory wqith the practice formally yet.
asciilifeform: i.e., if some bozo announces the box, no one plays, but if mircea_popescu does - possible
mircea_popescu: the 100% automation is too expensive
asciilifeform: really? i'da thought human power is too expensive
mircea_popescu: the 80% automation is what we do now anyway, for instance when using pgp
asciilifeform: and this could make the deal
mircea_popescu: think of computers at tractors.
mircea_popescu: which is precisely what they be.
mircea_popescu: 80% of a meal made by tractor - cheap
mircea_popescu: 100% of a meal made by tractor ?
asciilifeform: not proposing anything complex, really. something on the order of a bear trap
mircea_popescu: will the computer test if the thing it is testing has met the test or merely circumvented the test ?
mircea_popescu: because this computer may well save academia.
asciilifeform: defined here specifically for the 'circumvented ~= passed' scenarios
asciilifeform: limited in number, but valuable
asciilifeform: 'if you can supply a bitstring that makes mechanism x do y, get coin c'
mircea_popescu: i may be too slow for how fast this conversation has become, so gimme an example
mircea_popescu: in that example a) why would anyone accept to be paid less than the "cost to fuzz", and b) why would anyone opt to pay more thanb the "cost to fuzz" ?
asciilifeform: say i have a chip, from a certain vendor, for which no public documentation is known. it nominally allows firmware to be written, but not read back (most microcontroller vendors feature this.) i connect it to a programmable i/o board, and say 'supply the signals that cause it to spit out fw.'
asciilifeform: a monkey working at $vendor fires string, gets coin. for virtually no effort of his own.
asciilifeform: this answers 'a'
mircea_popescu: you are trying to take the personal relationship out of sex.
mircea_popescu: laudable, perhaps, but certainly unworkable.
asciilifeform: (monkey possesses the secret, will let go of it if he can do it at little personal risk and adequate reward)
mircea_popescu: see how that's a metaphor for womanhood ?
asciilifeform: woman is terrible metaphor here - there's ancient (pre-mammalian, even) 'egg defense' firmware at work
mircea_popescu: what you said is a metaphor for womanhood, not the other way around.
asciilifeform: whereas u.s. corporate monkeys ~will~ sell their login for a chocolate bar (empirically proven)
mircea_popescu: a) monkey b) possesses the key c) will let go IF - c1. not painful c2. food and shelter.
mircea_popescu: and yes, chocolate bar. to the right bloke.
asciilifeform: very often, the secret in question is in possession of folks who presently have ~no~ way to monetize it - i am speaking specifically of amateurs who pwned, by way of idle exploration, the target - but are not in a 'k00l d00dz wot' where they can safely sell the result to anyone
mircea_popescu: how we'd evaluate the "very often" ?
asciilifeform: only one way.
asciilifeform: empirically
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.00037675 = 18.9505 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: it'd seem very superficially that if this is true the other name for it is "polichinelle's secret"
asciilifeform: the concept of 'if random d00d pwned $victim, so has everyone' is only approximately true.
asciilifeform: because the incentive to actually sift through the raw data isn't presently there.
mircea_popescu: is there any particular reason the amateur that's not in a kool dude wot now will manage to get in the kool dude wot of the proposed market ?
asciilifeform: if the human element is maximally removed.
mircea_popescu: if that reason can be descreibed, is that reason anything but psychogenic ?
asciilifeform: bring magic key, get candy.
mircea_popescu: i am inclined to believe the solution to this problem is psychanalisis not software development.
mircea_popescu: then again... the past 50 years would look a lot different if i were actually right.
asciilifeform: the question of 'how do i know this candy dispenser contains candy and won't simply eat my key' is to be resolved using popescutronium (substance which powers atomic dirigible)
asciilifeform: hypothetically
mircea_popescu: how are you going to resolve dispute between party a which claims it ate its key and party b which claims the key was junk ?
mircea_popescu: specifically modeled for our convenience out of al schwartz.
mircea_popescu: so, he put in his key, and the result came out negatory. what now.
asciilifeform: it is a mistake to ask for a universal resolution to such a dispute, like asking for 'absolute velocity' in physics
mircea_popescu: the mistake is not to ask for it, the mistake is to contemplate a system that requires the question answered.
asciilifeform: i'm not certain that it does require it
kakobrekla: you need to call in ethereum
mircea_popescu: why would magical dragon risk his magic to get involved in a system that may well tarnish it for no reason ?
asciilifeform: on account of the impeccable reputation of the wizard who built it ?
mircea_popescu: it just became unimpeccable.
mircea_popescu: and the past few years have taught me a whole lot about the value and complexity of maintaining impeccability.
mircea_popescu: not an easy task for angels to actually walk the earth.
asciilifeform: must be so impeccable that it does not visibly diminish from a single dissatisfied dragon - any more than planet earth visibly loses gravitational pull from a rocket launched to outer space
mircea_popescu: that's ok, the rule is 0 1 infinity.
mircea_popescu: your system goes to infinity.
mircea_popescu: anyway, by "magical dragon" i meant what you seem to mean by "wizard" just ftr.
asciilifeform: i must point out that i have sat on both sides of this (entirely absent) bench. both in search of secrets, ~and~ sitting on a small stash of 0days that will be buried with me
mircea_popescu: why would THE WIZARD get involved in this, when there's an unbound negative result on the table.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only way he might consider it is if it were a ~bounded~ negative
asciilifeform: i.e. the secrets are sufficiently cheap (not of cosmic significance)
mircea_popescu: but when i tried that you said "it is a mistake to ask"
asciilifeform: sorta like most folks are happy to use 'coke' machines
asciilifeform: even though occasionally it eats the coin
mircea_popescu: the machine has a horrible reputation, and only survives in its abjection
asciilifeform: by all rights the machines ought to have disappeared by now
mircea_popescu: the usg did NOT survive eating the coin merely a few times.
asciilifeform: i wondered, often, if most 'coke' drinkers simply amortized the lost coins, mentally
mircea_popescu: don't come to me with a model that requires turning wizards into coke machines. there's no power to do so and the effort would be overall -ev anwyay
asciilifeform: again, the proposition is that there exists 'small change wizardry' which would find a place in a coke machine.
mircea_popescu: imo most coke drinkers do about the coins and machines what they do about their hopes and wives
mircea_popescu: the only reason there's no coke machine murder-suicides is the low value of the item.
mircea_popescu: (same holds true for the recent downturn in actual marriages ended that way too)
asciilifeform: now that i think about it...
asciilifeform: coke machine 'murder-suicide' used to be sop! in usa
asciilifeform: until they started chaining the things to the wall
mircea_popescu: a quarter's not what it used to be.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally most u.s. 'soda' machines have card slots now.
asciilifeform: (on account of multi-$ prices)
mircea_popescu: they a) no longer steal quarters and b) steal data.
mircea_popescu: everyone's happy : the plebs for a, the corp because b), as quarters weren't evenworth stealing
asciilifeform: one day some schmuck will build (for usg bid) a coke machine which dispenses the goop in exchange for a photo and dna sample
asciilifeform: and idiots will flock to it
mircea_popescu: why not ?
mircea_popescu: think about it - that's for many of them the ONLY chance they get to reproduce their dna.
mircea_popescu: you are aware, yes ? point of life for the genotype driven is reproducing the damned things
asciilifeform: machine will index for usg db, not for implantation, lol
mircea_popescu: i dun think it cares.
asciilifeform: they only store a few thou. of sequence
mircea_popescu: that's the only thing keepiong the floodgates shut.
asciilifeform: i've wondered what kept various floodgates of shit, hypothesized in fiction of the past, shut. e.g., 'rent-free' flats with walls covered in stomach-churning blinking advertisements 24/7, pensions in return for forehead tatoos of 'coca cola', etc.
asciilifeform: and similar horrors
mircea_popescu: iirc tattoo advertising is a thing
asciilifeform: never caught on en masse, afaik
asciilifeform: could have something to do with the cargo-cult, 'stotting' aspect of advertising per se
asciilifeform: gazelle does not need to stot 3km high, on rocket power
mircea_popescu has seen plenty of "property of X" crotch-and-other-places
mircea_popescu: does it cunt ?
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: not unless 'x' is 'coca cola', 'bank of america', etc
mircea_popescu: actually the only tattoo i ever saw that i thought was cool,
mircea_popescu: this chick has on her pubis that original persian message, in greek.
mircea_popescu: you know, the one gorgo "decyphered" ?
asciilifeform: as seen in herodot ?
mircea_popescu: iirc it was widely reported in teh ancient world.
asciilifeform: incidentally, did 'e-ink' ever make an appearance in tattoo shops ?
mircea_popescu: no idea.
mircea_popescu: trinque the lol part is, how often the tattood were in fact free agents or otherwise involved.
assbot: Why does the C preprocessor interpret the word "linux" as the constant "1"? - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8BIgh )
trinque: face tattoes aren't really any worse than stretching out your earlobes
trinque: people will imitate anything
trinque: s/face/crotch/
mircea_popescu: the earlobe idiocy is really popular here in the hipster crowd
trinque: here as well
mircea_popescu: i suspect worthless argentines tryin to act brazilian tough
mircea_popescu: anyway, i see a point to actually signifying tattoos, those queen of spades ankle stuff, or the russian cat or whatever.
jurov: yes, i have read about e-ink tattoo. but all such things fall into uncanny valley together with google glass
jurov: question is, how much longer
trinque: it will be a very long time before I implant electronics in my body, if ever
trinque: they're going to have to pull off "laptop" first
jurov: i am wearing electronics on my ears all day, so i've got a tollerance. but saw nothing appealing so far
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40553 @ 0.00037069 = 15.0326 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2015 13:10:56; mats: www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/world/europe/us-poised-to-put-heavy-weaponry-in-east-europe.html
mircea_popescu: maybe the russians would want
trinque: "Russia/China poised to put heavy weaponry in Mexico and Canada."
mircea_popescu: mexico would make sense
mircea_popescu: i am kind of curious why neither are going for the "peace keeping" thing
mircea_popescu: state's in just as bad a shape as syria/ukraina/etc ever were.
trinque: yeah
mircea_popescu: perhaps because they're not retarded enough to be the us.
mircea_popescu: one should really stop and think for a moment if he notices that the opposing players eschew "opportunities" he himself wouldn't.
trinque: good point
trinque: and I wonder how long the other players will put up with our paranoid, incoherent moves against them
mircea_popescu: moreover, there are hard to miss parallels between this entire "saving the state" interventionism of the us coallition
mircea_popescu: and the numerous coallitions of defeated european monarchs trying to save monarchies from napoleon
mircea_popescu: i think it's liable to go the same place - state's exactly as dead today as monarchy was in 1803
mircea_popescu: yes, some symbolic "states", about as related to historical states as the queen of england's to historical britsh monarchs will survive
mircea_popescu: in pockets of "nordic system" ness
mircea_popescu: but otherwise. .. the state is gone.
mircea_popescu: if anyone can explain the difference between "for king and country" of the blips of the 1800s and "for democracy1`11`11" of the redditards of today...
mircea_popescu: the similarities are overpowering. both groups are grossly acultural, clinging to ridiculously simplified worldviews and models of thought, and pretending to a legitimacy and importance that is both absent in the field and justified ideally and historically only.
trinque: in the reddit version perhaps it's much harder to see precisely who's giving the orders
trinque: pao? surely not
mircea_popescu: the same problem existed with the blips.
mircea_popescu: (the word has a particular slang meaning in english, a certain sort of beer drinking, saber rattling british citizen.)
mircea_popescu: haha too vulgar.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00038654 = 4.3679 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: Terry Gilliam is obsessed with them
trinque: ah ok, that must've been his great great grandson
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18308 @ 0.0003771 = 6.9039 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://imgur.com/pE2zQPQ
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: thanks for the advice all
ben_vulpes: and yes asciilifeform it is "rusted solid" on the inside.
kakobrekla: thats a good thing?
jurov: rusted solid === genuine vintage
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00037548 = 12.0717 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53300 @ 0.00039088 = 20.8339 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what is that
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2015 17:37:25; mircea_popescu: the same problem existed with the blips.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00037028 = 7.3315 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: corvette
ben_vulpes off for a bit of motoring with pets
asciilifeform: i thought it was a block of rust ?
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021444 B (Total: 426.05 B). Delta: 0.09 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
jurov: !t m f.mpif
assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (15000 shares, 3.11 BTC)
mod6: haha. that horse drawn car is awesome.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00036863 = 10.2479 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: almost exactly! except it's pulled by my giant dog instead of any sort of horse
jurov: no yoked human females?
mod6: haha
jurov: http://oglaf.com/hereafter/ guess oglaf saw us discussing death this week
assbot: hereafter ... ( http://bit.ly/1TmhClk )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6230 @ 0.00037355 = 2.3272 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski startup spacing issue corrected. Distinct hazard of staing into the idiocy is contact transmission of derp.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Fake words are also the hardest to spell
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right you are
ben_vulpes: /usr/include/features.h:374:25: fatal error: sys/cdefs.h: No such file or directory << novel and exciting failures in compiling openssl
mircea_popescu: cdefs.h doesn't sound like it would be needed anyway :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19385 @ 0.00036749 = 7.1238 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: one would think, and yet openssl won't compile without cdefs.h apparently
ben_vulpes: anyways for future logreaders and software archaeologists:
ben_vulpes: fix for missing cdefs.h on ubuntu 14.04 was "g++-multilib"
ben_vulpes: now if anyone can tell me what the ever loving hell that actua.
funkenstein_: ben_vulpes, it's sudo apt-get turtles-dev all the way down
ben_vulpes: unacceptabru!
punkman: !up gares_
funkenstein_: punkman, friend of yours?
funkenstein_: the turtle i mean
punkman: I like turtles
funkenstein_: you know poo-tsee?
funkenstein_: !up yhwh_
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73950 @ 0.00037707 = 27.8843 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Legality | Lock Picks Australia ... ( http://bit.ly/1dFnxB6 )
jurov: "Also, programmers can also attest to the fact that long-term coding is very much a tantric, mind-altering endeavor."
jurov: TANTRIC. ben_vulpes see?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43150 @ 0.00038555 = 16.6365 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: see what?
ben_vulpes: and source?
jurov: the last link i posted
jurov: and see what? that finding the right cdecls.h spot is in fact tantric exercise :)
jurov: "At this point we can consider... Scientology is a tax-exempt religion. Why not Bitcoin?" ahahaha never made the connection before
ben_vulpes: wow that's quite a wall of text
jurov: "...consider that Bitcoin has died 71 times, and therefore is continuously reborn in the psychic reality of the public."
jurov: dunno why I find it so funny
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49750 @ 0.00037124 = 18.4692 BTC [-]
jurov: maybe I should invite dude here to "inner cult" :D
ben_vulpes: i have a spare robe for him
ben_vulpes: it's a little stained tho
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://imgur.com/a/FhZRf
assbot: Brand-New Trinitron (circa 2000) - Unboxed in 2015. - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1dFoDwJ )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35334 @ 0.00037124 = 13.1174 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58950 @ 0.00037956 = 22.3751 BTC [+]
assbot: Oregon man gets sentenced to 3 years in jail for pumping his own gas ... ( http://bit.ly/1dFpspl )
asciilifeform: 'Shortly thereafter, officers who had been working undercover to catch citizens attempting to self-serve, swarmed in to arrest the mostly nude man – but not before Mapes took down 3 of the 6 officers by himself.'
asciilifeform: hilarious gag
asciilifeform: now if only it happened.
BingoBoingo: !up RUchamp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50900 @ 0.00039426 = 20.0678 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Wat — Destroy All Software Talks ... ( http://bit.ly/1dFqYrt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19791 @ 0.00040032 = 7.9227 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3111 @ 0.00040387 = 1.2564 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79700 @ 0.00040387 = 32.1884 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !Up gares_
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 74 @ 0.0139 = 1.0286 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6230 @ 0.00040387 = 2.5161 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129686 @ 0.00040905 = 53.0481 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75250 @ 0.00042619 = 32.0708 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101841 @ 0.00039785 = 40.5174 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00036741 / 0.00038996 / 0.00042619 (1520935 shares, 593.11 BTC), 7D: 0.00033981 / 0.00036473 / 0.00042619 (16484205 shares, 6,012.35 BTC), 30D: 0.00024411 / 0.00031819 / 0.00042619 (115683800 shares, 36,810.55 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6435 @ 0.00038725 = 2.492 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62369 @ 0.00038725 = 24.1524 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13031 @ 0.0003987 = 5.1955 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44693 @ 0.00039827 = 17.7999 BTC [-]
assbot: 'I love being a call girl - I'm in control,' boasts fallen child genius | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1HHZ4at )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99050 @ 0.00039386 = 39.0118 BTC [-]
mats: nothing wrong with being a call girl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118350 @ 0.00039241 = 46.4417 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: not every call girl can do calculus, she needs to be given a better purpose
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27549 @ 0.00039827 = 10.9719 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2615 @ 0.00041581 = 1.0873 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78850 @ 0.00041165 = 32.4586 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-06-2015#1163996 < but what is the altnerative to the state?
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2015 17:31:18; mircea_popescu: moreover, there are hard to miss parallels between this entire "saving the state" interventionism of the us coallition
decimation: if there were an obvious alternative it probably would have happened already?
trinque: a WoT of a hundred million people, maybe
decimation: I guess. when your house is on fire are you gonna look through your rolodex?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00041432 = 6.1527 BTC [+]
trinque: there are a number of ways to come at that particular problem
decimation: sure, but in the end they all involve a peice of actual real estate with an actual physical structure
trinque: couldn't we apply the same argument to plowing the roads, or other similar work?
trinque: in the absence of a central authority dictating that there shall be a fire dept, I wouldn't expect that the need to put out fires would vanish along with it
funkenstein_: where do you live that the state runs the fire dept?
decimation: not a literal us state here, state = government
funkenstein_: well any business has its governing structure
funkenstein_: fire departments usually don't need to be able to counterfeit money
funkenstein_: non sequitur, sorry
funkenstein_: what is the alternative to slavery?
decimation: but someone has to claim the land, and people need a place to sleep
funkenstein_: what do you mean someone has to claim the land?
decimation: if the land is unclaimed, how do you build a house?
funkenstein_: with materials
trinque: owning something is having control over it
trinque: it's not an abstract granted by an authority
decimation: trinque: yes, and the implication quickly becomes "I sit in my mud hut with my ak and you sit in yours"
decimation: if you need an army to do anything that is
trinque: we should define what we mean by state
funkenstein_: indeed
trinque: probably means something a bit more than "owns this dirt"
funkenstein_: there is the question of "who's your roof"
trinque: this monstrous, bureaucratic "modern state" which infiltrates every aspect of life is to whom I refer
trinque: decimation: or in other words... if only the fire dept was the most of our worries
trinque: I'd be happy to see it go if the rest were also in the bathwater
decimation: trinque: no doubt, I can imagine lots of other structures, but I just don't see how groups of people who need to do business together can get away from some kind of central coordinating mechanism for certain tasks
trinque: neither can I
decimation: note that this doesn't imply 'modern state' is the only possibly solution
trinque: perhaps something eventually emerges which is the aggregate of contracts within the WoT
decimation: but it seems to me that nearly all qualifying solutions meet some definition of 'state'
trinque: and in fact, built upon consent, it would have far greater legitimacy
funkenstein_: malcolm x says the state becomes necessary when one needs to separate those who have from those who have not
trinque: malcolm x was a reactionary with no proposal
trinque: cept what, islam?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113100 @ 0.00038688 = 43.7561 BTC [-] {2}
funkenstein_: his proposal was that the bullet was more powerful than the ballot
trinque: thought of that all by himself, did he?
funkenstein_: that wasn't his claim
trinque: anyhow. it's true that anywhere humans gather and interact structures will emerge
funkenstein_: true indeed. people talk about "the government" as if that meant something specific.. so many out there
trinque: decimation: one important distinction may be that whereas the modern state seeks to make humans fungible, to normalize them according to some standard
trinque: the WoT allows for *varying* standards of interaction based on the relationships involved
decimation: sure, but that's a distinction between 'a state' and 'the modern structure' (as moldbug would put it)
trinque: I don't disagree
decimation: I would probably setting for a 'modern state' that did its best to cultivate the quality of its human potential, rather than treating it like an infinite resource
decimation: s/setting/settle/
funkenstein_: i find it easier to talk about tax regimes
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