Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-06-09 | 2015-06-11 → ↓
trinque: good place for scientist types to ponder; makes sense
decimation: the trouble is they still must eat
asciilifeform: so long as the thing you like to do can be done in front of a computer in a converted broom closet - you're in heaven.
asciilifeform: until the funding runs out
decimation: one can hardly raise a family in the wash dc area for $80k
asciilifeform: family no, reasonable monastic existence - yes
decimation: yeah, I buy that, good job for someone 'married to work'
asciilifeform: actually not at all
asciilifeform: good job for someone who doesn't give half a flying fuck about work.
decimation: heh good point
decimation: what's conquest's third law?
asciilifeform: didn't require selling soul or keeping secrets, either
asciilifeform: everything we did was printed in academitard rags
decimation: "The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its enemies. "
decimation: asciilifeform: that sounds like a nice life, as long as you can work on what you want and aren't bothered by paperwork
asciilifeform: it was.
mats: so what i'm hearing is i should apply to be a clerk at the patent office
asciilifeform: mats: heavens no. they make you work!
asciilifeform: like post office!
decimation: mats: go read glassdoor
asciilifeform: complete with quotas
mats: o
decimation: yeah it's terrible work
asciilifeform: uspto is self-funded
asciilifeform: (like post office.)
decimation: unless you minimize your time there to become a patent lawyer
asciilifeform: bad, bad usg to work for.
trinque: I'm blessed I suppose by seeing software as only incidental to business
trinque: or any other such thing
trinque: I think I'd kill myself at any govt agency
mats: i enjoyed .mil service for this reason
mats: got a lot of college courses and personal projects done in my downtime
asciilifeform: mats: from my perch, it looks more like patent office (i.e. actual work) than the other kind
mats: and during work hours when not out playing fuck fuck games
asciilifeform: what good is downtime if it's in afghan with 300 baud modem-over-dead-goat
trinque: what's a social institution that works for this?
trinque: uber-wealthy king that funds research?
mats: my biggest regret is not going to afghan
mats: should've enlisted sooner
asciilifeform: mats: but presumably not because of the high-quality ways to spend time off work there ?
mats: well no.
decimation: asciilifeform: if stuck on base, you got a burger king, they are apparently universal
asciilifeform: decimation: being locked in a castle where quality food means 'burger king' sounds like my mental picture of jail
mats: lol
mats: i had a whopper this week and couldn't finish it
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I think that's kinda the idea
trinque: it's not even food.
decimation: your alternative is mystery meat from local orc
asciilifeform: mats: one time when i was out of work for many months, i applied to be a... sysadmin in afghan. but was rejected, with polite letter that 'you gotta already be in the army.' for some reason this was not stated in the wanted ad.
mats: lol
decimation: asciilifeform: actually it would be interesting to be a russian speaker there
mats: where did you find ad? usajobs?
decimation: I bet you would find all kinds of obscure and interesting facts
asciilifeform: decimation: the office next to mine at old work was inhabited by a russian fella. with rank of major.
trinque: heh, I bet the locals would love a russian speaker around.
asciilifeform: (warrant officer, naturally, will never go near a war)
asciilifeform: mats: some snakepit. perhaps one of these. can't recall presently
decimation: major isn't warrant officer, that's field grade
asciilifeform: perhaps i am thinking of wrong term here
asciilifeform: what is it called in usa when you are nominally an officer, but only because you had ph.d. when you put on the uniform
asciilifeform: and never sent to command anything
asciilifeform checks dictionary. 'warrant officer'
decimation: in the army 'warrant officer' is a specific rank
mats: asciilifeform: sometimes regular officer
assbot: Warrant officer (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1MH3G0N )
mats: through 'direct commission' e.g. med corps seeking doctors, nurses, other health professionals
mats: also JAG
decimation: yeah, they are 'officers' mostly in pay scale only
decimation: I think they do a few weeks of basic
asciilifeform: not only pay, but 'caste'
asciilifeform: (e.g., he eats with officers, avoids beatings, etc)
decimation: yeah, still get the 'customs and courtesies'
decimation: lol beatings
asciilifeform: is even permitted to grow fat
mats: ha, yes.
mats: get a 'walking profile' so you don't even hafta run the distance in fitness test.
mats: is a vigorous walk but still... always made me chuckle.
asciilifeform wonders where mats met these in the proper army
trinque: my googling suggests it depends on the service
mats: warrant officers
decimation: asciilifeform: I've seen recruiters for medical folks for this kind of position
mats: i spent some time loaned out like lawnmower
asciilifeform: mats: i wonder when usa will adopt the ancient ru tradition of commanders 'borrowing' entire regiments to build their country houses, chop wood, etc.
asciilifeform: i imagine it will materialize when the nominal 'civilian control over army' evaporates
decimation: asciilifeform: they used to do exactly this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapidan_Camp
assbot: Rapidan Camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0BNT8 )
trinque: order of magnitude or so of inflation I'd guess
decimation: "The Marine Corps provided construction labor as a "military exercise."
decimation: but that was 1929
asciilifeform: and for potus
decimation: today every labor union in the country would be up in arms
asciilifeform: but not when mexicans build?
asciilifeform: mexicans - 'a-ok' ; soldiers - no ?
decimation: they are a class that is privledged with construction
mats: all the joes would piss and moan, good luck getting anything done when they take smoke breaks every hour
decimation: ^ yeah they probably would do a shit job
decimation: a pro mexican (or in your area salvadoran) framing team can frame a house in a day
asciilifeform: mats: they have not yet invented beating-the-shit-out in u.s. army ?
mats: its a new, softer army
decimation: asciilifeform: I think they gave that up in the 90's
mats: old traditions are alive in select groups
mats: ranger regiment does it informally to clear out trash
trinque: I spent a couple summers on air force bases in texas in the jrotc thing
trinque: the officers on base seemed like college bros
trinque: angry, pissy, well dressed college bros, but nonetheless
mats: because they are
trinque: did not enlist
decimation: well, technically officers are commissioned, not enlisted
trinque: did not enofficer either
mats: hes doing it wrong again
decimation: it's all bullshit anyway, why bother with the distinction
decimation: some grunt who has done honest work surely outranks some ditz with a degree in english
mats: dunno that i agree with that
mats: somebody has got to drive the bus and another to read the map
decimation: sure, but in centuries past the distinction was based on nobility vs. commoners
mats: is this not the case?
mats: going to college is a privilege
decimation: I suppose what I am getting at is that having any kind of distinction at all flies in the face of usg's egalitarian sermonizing
mats: i get it
decimation: actually the fact that usg is weirdly reactionary is probably the only thing holding it together
mats: i do not enjoy this game of catching the falling knife
mats: where i remain resident in US
mats: exciting, yes, healthy, no
mats also off
mircea_popescu: "Brian Krebs, who talks about the weird symbiotic relationship he has with the criminal underworld" orly ?
mircea_popescu: can i has break now, plox gimme.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158726 <<< yeah, the pact two lamers made to proclaim each other cool is "a done deal". one nobody cares about, shillatron efforts notwithstanding.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:06:53; asciilifeform: eff lobbyist who tells us that 'wassenar is a done deal, all that can be done is to litigate some of the edges off'
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:16:13; asciilifeform: e.g., did bernard von nothaus get on front of nyt? why not?
assbot: Logged on 09-06-2015 13:07:45; mircea_popescu: i will also observe that s.mg launches much awaited bitcoin's mmorpg, usg.agitprop is silent ; "blockstream" launches "much awaited" (by whom ?) nothing at all, the wsj seems compelled to write it up within the hour.
mircea_popescu: "As of 11-JAN-2015, this post has now been read by over 30,000 people." << wrong metric, i guess.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in fairness... rp oliver dude was beyond kooky. seriously, soviet conspiraci ?
mircea_popescu: by the way, the history of the "national alliance" is one of the top keks in kook history. so, nazi-like thing created in the 70s by a physics prof. he died cca 2000. appointed successor some random schmuck, who managed to lose pretty much everyone's support over the ensuing decade. some other schmuck eventualy staged a coop. schmuck #1 declares fuhrerprinzip refuses to yield. most of the membership follows schmuck #2,
mircea_popescu: because hey, new schmuck!!11
mircea_popescu: except he gets nabbed for child pr0nz and perhaps underage rape. so organization goes back to schmuck #1, who now quits, because he had just married a stripper and "needs to spend time with his family", presumably servicing the black cock she's bringing home.
mircea_popescu: http://www.erikasnydermakeup.com/about.html << she's now a "freelance make up artist" and none of the schmucks were ever heard from again.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44500 @ 0.00035971 = 16.0071 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: 29-MAY-2002: Michel Houellebecq charged with inciting racial hatred for stating, in an interview, that Islam was “the most stupid of all religions”.
mircea_popescu: lol k. houellebecq is a ways from being purged.
mircea_popescu: fallaci nigh-on got national funerals when she died mid 2000s
mircea_popescu: not a very good list this. a collection of derps (middle school teacher, seriously ?!) and reasonably known people who had little to nothing to do.
mircea_popescu: the import of "derp" is noted tho, good for haus.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158770 <<< yeah, hiring, sure. as long as you can put up with being paid in confederate money while being stuck with fastfood management, it's hiring.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:38:39; asciilifeform: handle's usg is hiring.
mircea_popescu: every pimp in baltimore is hiring on the same terms.
mircea_popescu: job prolly a lot more fun, even without lube.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158783 << inb4 "no, the ~OTHER~ DoD". because ya know.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:40:40; trinque: the "they" that's smart enough to kill 'em is dumb enough to http://betanews.com/2013/01/03/windows-8-is-good-enough-for-the-us-department-of-defense/
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:45:11; decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/NSA-Salaries-E41534.htm < lol
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158806 << except they're not THAT guaranteed, are they. gotta hope your party wins, for one. other party has its own hangers.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:46:32; asciilifeform: plus the mega-benefits of guaranteed employment for life, fat pensions, health 'insurances', etc.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158807 << yeah, sure, sure. meanwhile something awful lost its head of eve ops irl. no batallion.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:47:00; asciilifeform: herr handle bragged about keeping kid in day care 'guarded by battalion'
mircea_popescu: i guess they were all busy wiping this guy's kid's nose or something
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158822 << i can guarantee that no part of the usg does this. the parts that should provably do not. the parts that aren't provable to not, do not actually exist.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:53:15; asciilifeform: the only reason the nukes have not yet 'wandered off' is that the 'serious' part of usg works the same way as my house, or mircea_popescu's
mircea_popescu: the only thing silence means on this network is that there's actually no machine there.
mircea_popescu: all connected machines - respond. as they shouldn't, myriad ways.
mircea_popescu: the only reason the nukes haven't wandered off is that a) they're not actually flight worthy and b) they're not actually strategically useful.
mircea_popescu: they'll fly off once the attention whores off social media get technically competent enough, which, barring any unemployed 40yo taxi drivers in fuckheadistan, pretty much means never.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89655 @ 0.00035784 = 32.0821 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27102 @ 0.00035688 = 9.6722 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158827 << contractor schmontractor. all the people that are even half-competent are working for options and warrants, not piddly fucking pay.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:54:32; decimation: "cons: Process and management inhibit mission. Pay does not match market (as low as 60% of what you can get as a contractor)."
mircea_popescu: a salary is for the office cocksucker and for that twerp who actually sat through ALL FOUR YEARS of computer school.
mircea_popescu: these are not even "bright and brightest" of the 20th percentile.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158831 << being a bureaucrat is much like being a housewife. it does, unerringly, without exception, require a broken brain.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:57:50; asciilifeform: no one ever talks about the 'up side' of being a bureaucrat, but i think it is necessary. otherwise you are stuck believing that these people are clinically insane (they are not.)
mircea_popescu: one who is not mentally retarded can not BE a bureaucrat. they may temporarily work in a bureaucracy, but for short stints and fully loathing it, miller's cosmococcic empire style.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158834 << generally speaking, prison's a better deal. sleep ad libitum, for one.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:58:58; trinque: not that insane to collect a good check and be relatively certain of life
mircea_popescu: how many people do you suppose actually and deliberately go to jail ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158924 << not so russian. what the roman army did in between the marian reforms and the utter collapse.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 04:19:17; asciilifeform: mats: i wonder when usa will adopt the ancient ru tradition of commanders 'borrowing' entire regiments to build their country houses, chop wood, etc.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158956 << if only. compare like things : some ditz with a degree in english with some derp with ten years' counterstrike experience
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 04:25:02; decimation: some grunt who has done honest work surely outranks some ditz with a degree in english
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 00:01:41; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-06-2015#1158532 << i've said it before, and will say it again - au is a usg-owned zoolag where they try out new and bleeding-edge idiocies
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62602 @ 0.00036736 = 22.9975 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73702 @ 0.00035669 = 26.2888 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91800 @ 0.00037106 = 34.0633 BTC [+]
shinohai: 5:00 AM bitcoin-ASSets girl: https://i.imgur.com/qw1nVyw.png
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Now you've got the aesthetic down
shinohai: I promise one day #b-a will have a state-of-the-art fap bot full of such goodness.
BingoBoingo: !s .bait
assbot: 850 results for '.bait' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=.bait
BingoBoingo: ^ previous bot's work in this area
shinohai: That's where I got the idea for it. Finding high-quality material is a little difficult.
thestringpuller: "If Bitcoin was to be controlled by a popularity contest, we're pretty doomed."
shinohai: Consensus at work
assbot: MasterCard makes the case that it’s safer and faster than Bitcoin - Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1KoPGtc )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46332 @ 0.00035544 = 16.4682 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: wyrdmantis: Feel free to write it up. I'm taking part a Preet Bharara turd atm.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73100 @ 0.00035155 = 25.6983 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ^ I love that picture
wyrdmantis: BingoBoingo article is almost ready
BingoBoingo: thanks
wyrdmantis: first time for me, how do i send?
BingoBoingo: sent a pm
shinohai: Good article, 1 grammatical error: It's judges like this that will be taken out and short. FTFY.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: It's a quote
shinohai: ah k
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92200 @ 0.00035247 = 32.4977 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMo6v_uFZKU wow such whoring. complete with peroxide blonde.
assbot: Spice Girls - Headlines (Friendship Never Ends) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1F7Ya0T )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 2941 @ 0.00239993 = 7.0582 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83700 @ 0.0003515 = 29.4206 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49754 @ 0.00035086 = 17.4567 BTC [-]
assbot: Zachtronics | TIS-100 ... ( http://bit.ly/1MnX7iP )
wyrdmantis: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 360302 | Current Difficulty: 4.758959115362501E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 360863 | Next Difficulty In: 561 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 15 hours, 25 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 49378249574.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 3.75851
assbot: Goodbye Sweden | THE SWEDEN REPORT ... ( http://bit.ly/1MnZ2Ea )
jurov: "american" complains about addition of foreigners? color me surprised
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00035445 = 13.4691 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: 早上好比特币-财富人 <-- mornin' b-a
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158673 <-- selector for what?
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 00:35:40; asciilifeform: use of linux/bsd is a legal nsa 'selector.' this is publicly known by now.
funkenstein_: so i threw a coin at s.nsa the day of first phuctoring.. can't help but notice that was the last listed volume
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158732 <-- interested parties might follow the story of one Russel Maroon Shoatz
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:11:07; asciilifeform: aha, escaped prisoner is 'affront to the majesty of the law' (tm) (r)
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158798 <-- always bothered me we still use the phrase "private sector" when the bill is paid by the public
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 03:43:55; decimation: no doubt it's the private sector where usg showers it cash
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158990 << last i saw, the 'confederate money' buys a good bit of btc.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 05:46:33; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158770 <<< yeah, hiring, sure. as long as you can put up with being paid in confederate money while being stuck with fastfood management, it's hiring.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158998 << mircea_popescu is posting through a temporal modem from 1870s ? because 'spoils system' in usg civil service is long, long gone. nobody at nsa, usually not even the director (they don't stick around long anyway) worries about which party is in the white house.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 05:50:29; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158806 << except they're not THAT guaranteed, are they. gotta hope your party wins, for one. other party has its own hangers.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 05:51:18; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158807 << yeah, sure, sure. meanwhile something awful lost its head of eve ops irl. no batallion.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159003 << understand, they don't do it through deliberate choice, but inertia. nothing more recent than 'microvax' is (last i heard) approved for 'minuteman' rocket, etc.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 05:55:27; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158822 << i can guarantee that no part of the usg does this. the parts that should provably do not. the parts that aren't provable to not, do not actually exist.
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159015 <-- one can simulate such a broken brain with a functional one dontcha think?
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 06:06:06; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158831 << being a bureaucrat is much like being a housewife. it does, unerringly, without exception, require a broken brain.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159011 << this has to win some sort of prize for 'martial in atomic dirigible.' EVERYBODY i ever met in usa works for salary. i suppose it follows that neither i nor anyone i know in meatspace is 'even half-competent.'
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 06:02:04; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158827 << contractor schmontractor. all the people that are even half-competent are working for options and warrants, not piddly fucking pay.
asciilifeform: *martian
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159017 << didja read last night's tale re: how i worked in the ultimate bureaucracy ?
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 06:06:36; mircea_popescu: one who is not mentally retarded can not BE a bureaucrat. they may temporarily work in a bureaucracy, but for short stints and fully loathing it, miller's cosmococcic empire style.
funkenstein_: people say they work only for the money but in fact work is also done because it is worth doing
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i work for the money.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i also do 'things worth doing' but nobody pays for those
asciilifeform: or is ever likely to.
asciilifeform: i suppose i should clarify, again, that i wasn't speaking of -actually working- as bureaucrat - that is, sitting in meetings, filing reports in triplicate. just that being paid to do, in effect, whatever the fuck you want, is almost like being rich.
asciilifeform: and that you can get this, if lucky, in the bowels of u.s. dod.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158992 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159018 << mircea_popescu travelled for years through usa but did not, apparently, discover the caste system we have here. said system explains why you will never see an engineer contemplate 'working with a pimp' or considering whether prison may be a good vacation.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 05:46:46; mircea_popescu: every pimp in baltimore is hiring on the same terms.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 06:07:27; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158834 << generally speaking, prison's a better deal. sleep ad libitum, for one.
asciilifeform: brahmin would demand 'orbital' hazard pay just for -being in the same room- with an untouchable for a few hours.
funkenstein_: allow me to hypothesize that what you do for the money is not totally useless
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i can guarantee you that it is. from the big-picture standpoint.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: allow me to explain. i work for something quite like an antivirus firm.
funkenstein_: incidentally i have very little luck with this argument in UK
funkenstein_: if one person appreciates what you do, my argument is proven
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i've met folks who 'appreciate' what preet bharara does. and obama. etc
funkenstein_: !up Petit_Dejeuner
funkenstein_: merci garçon
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: does it follow that they are in 'useful work' ?
funkenstein_: I think so. Cocksuckers have their use.
funkenstein_: what their use is to humanity is another question
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: if you don't grasp the fact that some folks do work which ultimately helps destroy everything that is good and bright, i have very little to say.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64520 @ 0.00036405 = 23.4885 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159076 << you know full well what kind of 'foreigners' sweden is importing, and why.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 12:59:34; jurov: "american" complains about addition of foreigners? color me surprised
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38530 @ 0.00036902 = 14.2183 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: standard socialist-flavoured cultural collapse.
funkenstein_: very true, sadly..
funkenstein_: and many of them have been fooled by this whole "work is for the money" nonsense
asciilifeform: how the fuck do i even parse this.
asciilifeform: did funkenstein_ miss the entire collection of threads re: 'the bezzle' (term from galbraith) ? and mircea_popescu's 'tin woman' essay? re: how imbeciles print money like toilet paper, and the only way to afford food & rent in usa is to work for the folks who get first or second dip into the freshly-printed bucket ?
asciilifeform: (to a first approximation)
funkenstein_: no no, sorry I speak to quickly as usual
funkenstein_: *too
funkenstein_: one needs to get the tokens to pay for food and rent, this implies you have something to do with your tokens, not just working "for tokens"
funkenstein_: and we usually need the tide variety
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: there are folks who work for food and roof more or less directly (soldiers, mexican slaves.) it is useful to distinguish the categories.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19634 @ 0.00036902 = 7.2453 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: even in that circumstance it is useful to realize one has the option to starve and be homeless, which one should take over some jobs
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: have fun with that
funkenstein_: if you offer me "destroy what is good and bright or be homeless" I will gladly take the latter
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: go, take. if you're gainfully employed in usa, you are almost certainly either one of the destroyers or supplying necessities to those who are.
funkenstein_: Henry Miller goes on and on about his right to starve, rather unconvincingly
asciilifeform: 'in its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.' (tm) (r)
funkenstein_: lol, majestic
funkenstein_: if I were so employed, perhaps I could be a useful mole for you.
funkenstein_: but yeah, sometimes i think even the indirect handling of fiat would put me in the category of destoroyer
funkenstein_: and so I should ask you lords, if this is a pardonable offense
funkenstein_: in all seriousness
lobbes: a lot of people here are in that category. 'if you starve enough' etc
lobbes: I surely am in that category
lobbes shrug
lobbes: I like living, though
assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1dwj2bX )
assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1dwj2sJ )
asciilifeform: ^^^ where the hell is my ticker ?!
shinohai: another one bites the dust.
asciilifeform: i dare to say these are more interesting than what happened every minute on 'havelock'
asciilifeform: but that's just me
kakobrekla agrees.
lobbes: I'd agree
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119336 @ 0.00036935 = 44.0768 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59454 @ 0.00037558 = 22.3297 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94296 @ 0.00035948 = 33.8975 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: cazalla well, dja wanna quit ?
mircea_popescu: i mean, people can quit, it's a job not a conviction.
mircea_popescu: who/what is a bailey jay
mircea_popescu: "So basically I like to follow the philosophy of Toaism and the concept of wei wu wei, the closest English translation apparently is "action without action" which basically means you don't do anything. "
mircea_popescu: and why the fuck do i follow these reddit links even.
mircea_popescu: one in a dozen or so is still too much
mircea_popescu: toaism, aka sitoncouchism.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51100 @ 0.00035086 = 17.9289 BTC [-]
assbot: Amazon.com: Dr. Pinks Anal Brightening Cream - Natural Ingredients - No Hydroquinone - All Skin Types,50 ML/1.7 FL OZ: Health & Personal Care ... ( http://bit.ly/1S4ulHD )
mircea_popescu: oooookays
shinohai: "Your asshole is looking a little dingy my dear. Freshen that up, will ya?"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159046 <<< juuuust teh fact that mastercard perceives the need to make this case...
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 09:49:38; wyrdmantis: materials for a qntra piece: http://qz.com/423739/mastercard-makes-the-case-that-its-safer-and-faster-than-bitcoin/
mircea_popescu: glwt. housewives everywhere have been making the case that they are safer and faster than hitchhikers
mircea_popescu: who ever fucks a housewife and who ever passed up the chance to wet it in random roadkill ?
shinohai will dip his pen in whatever ink presents itself ...
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 10:17:47; scoopbot_revived: Bharara Seeks To Prosecute Silk Road Trial Commenters http://qntra.net/2015/06/bharara-seeks-to-prosecute-silk-road-trial-commenters/
mircea_popescu: dude do the stupid go to a special stupid school that makes them self defeating or what the fuck is it
shinohai: Welcome to the land of the free, and the home of "What the actual fuck."
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2AJ2JRG.txt )
assbot: Former CIA Director: We're Not Doing Nearly Enough To Protect Against The EMP Threat | Peak Prosperity ... ( http://bit.ly/1S4wHGA )
mircea_popescu: trinque wtf happened to teh deedbot yo!
trinque: wut
trinque checks
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/preet.txt << there you go, a qntra exclusive.
mats: i loled
mircea_popescu: curious how'll they sort this one out.
trinque: too many spaces for teh regex
deedbot-: accepted: 1
mircea_popescu: ah ok ty.
mats: i wonder who will be the first to be hanged for #b-a association
mircea_popescu: i wonder how much time will elapse between t1 where we reach hanging parity and t2 when there's 100 usis hangings per historical b-a hanging
mats: hue
mircea_popescu: provided we stop at 100
mircea_popescu: tho it kinda is historically the outer bound of responsibility.
mircea_popescu: moreover, you need better stuff than shit assemblages to not crumble way before any sort of parity is to be had.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: no, seriously, i'm curious how the majesty of the turd statue is going to recover from something like that.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the usual way!
mircea_popescu: no, not really. notice that they knew enough to try and do it in secret.
assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
mircea_popescu: you know why this is.
ascii_field: ^ that's how
mircea_popescu: oh, so i get legal immunity ?
mircea_popescu: hopefully now the rest of you know how that goes.
ascii_field: the immunity of 'it never happened, move along'
mircea_popescu: coolness.
mircea_popescu: that's all the immunity i ever need.
mircea_popescu: i hope their daughters lubricate well.
ascii_field: their 'daughters' probably have shriveled syphilitic cocks.
ascii_field: (if all else is any indication)
mircea_popescu: all else is never an indication about daughters.
assbot: Logged on 12-12-2014 00:03:19; asciilifeform: chemically-powered emp bomb is one of those weapons that really fails basic physics, for almost any scenario, but the brass can't ever fall out of love with it
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159063 << for a moment i expected it'd be gavin accepting some award for spice girls career achievement or something.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 12:03:13; jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMo6v_uFZKU wow such whoring. complete with peroxide blonde.
mircea_popescu: "But what makes me the most pessimistic about Sweden’s future is how the social fabric itself has been undermined. " << heh. NORDIC SYSTEM!!11
ascii_field: no meat without flies.
mircea_popescu: like the mouse system. "it works for as long as there's cheese to eat".
ascii_field: ^ applies to all living things
mircea_popescu: no. only applies to SOME living things.
mircea_popescu: some other living things make their own cheese.
ascii_field: out of grass
mircea_popescu: do you feel particularly like twenty gallons of ocean water today or something ?
ascii_field: approximately.
mircea_popescu: yes eventually everything applies to all things. in this sense preet's a respectable fellow - hey, how many indians own their own suit ?!
mircea_popescu: nevertheless...
ascii_field: i really can't help but wonder what motivates the man
ascii_field: torquemada, as i understand, believed in god
mircea_popescu: what motivates all quislings ever ?
ascii_field: what does preet believe in ?
mircea_popescu: a perceived social consensus and low self esteem.
mircea_popescu: doesn't believe in anything, why should he ?
mircea_popescu: there's a minimum bar to belief, and it's "not being made out of pressed shitboard"
mircea_popescu: he doesn't pass it.
ascii_field: because being inquisitor is something like work ?
mircea_popescu: only to you.
ascii_field: folks generally do work for a reason
mircea_popescu: yes. a perceived social consensus and low self esteem.
ascii_field: i'd imagine having men thrown in chains at one's say-so does something for 'self-esteem' ?
mircea_popescu: and you'd be wrong.
mircea_popescu: vast expanses of marble arches do nothing for the self esteem of the slavegirls chained there.
mircea_popescu: yes, it's "their" palace, or in proper words their master's palace.
ascii_field: it isn't clear to me whether preet understands that it isn't 'his' palace
mircea_popescu: because self esteem built on self delusion works
mircea_popescu: this is how the us became the most beloved, greatest and best country in the world.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:32:58; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158990 << last i saw, the 'confederate money' buys a good bit of btc.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 00:09:38; asciilifeform: if i were to obtain (fell out of airplane, aha) a crate full of benjies, it would do exactly zero for my situation.
mircea_popescu: at some point you'll have to reconcile the two.
ascii_field: nothing to reconcile
ascii_field: the confederate money just needs to be 'legitimated'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159088 << was briefly gone. it's coming back, and in a big way. ask around.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:35:11; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158998 << mircea_popescu is posting through a temporal modem from 1870s ? because 'spoils system' in usg civil service is long, long gone. nobody at nsa, usually not even the director (they don't stick around long anyway) worries about which party is in the white house.
ascii_field knows buncha folks working in civil service, not one gives a flying fuck which party is in office
mircea_popescu: are they consulting for $$$ or just taking living wage as zeks ?
mircea_popescu: strange.
ascii_field: gotta understand, the dod mega-projects have lifespans of decades and contracted for $maxint in advance
mircea_popescu: and the contractors keep getting shuffled.
ascii_field: as one fella put it explaining to me, 'it doesn't matter if they elect the democrats, republicans, or lesbians. i get paid.'
mircea_popescu: and whether the next budget overrun is going to be ok'd or not is always up in the air
mircea_popescu: and while people might pretend like it's not the case, everyone depends on their contacts and the days of the dual-head contracts are coming to an end
mircea_popescu: (which is what the recent prosecutions around the govt of ny marks)
ascii_field: 'lockheed', 'raytheon', etc. laugh at the budget crap.
ascii_field: they are attached straight to the bezzle reactor core.
mircea_popescu: by what conduit ?
ascii_field does not know, has not touched with own hands
ascii_field: i suspect by the conduit of 'we get paid or the lot of you die'
mircea_popescu: again, this is what the coumo associates prosecutions mark. not that it wans't a fact a while before.
mircea_popescu: that conduit is politically vulnerable, whoever has the courts can send the guy up river.
mircea_popescu: which is why i spend my time publicly humiliating bharara rather than "the liberal lion elizabeth warren"
mircea_popescu: or the set of schmucks over at state.
mircea_popescu: either much softer, easier, lulzier targets.
ascii_field: wake me up when there's a humiliated rockefeller.
mircea_popescu: what, seriously ? that's your golden standard ?!
ascii_field: nah just snap example
ascii_field: rothchild, if you like more
mircea_popescu: bad one, eh. what was the entire "we will herd you over at wh and tell you where to donate your money - it's not confiscation btw" episode than this ?
mircea_popescu: all the young schmucks enthusiastically approving the obamaplans.
ascii_field: that was done to middle class
mircea_popescu: no, it was done to a collection of "scions" of rockefeller and rotschild and the like.
ascii_field: rockefeller - laughs.
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1L1wfaZ )
ascii_field: mircea_popescu argues that -all of these folks- are in 'we'll show you what to sign, herr hindenburg' mode ?
ascii_field: so there we go. the remaining ones are our $rothchilds
mircea_popescu: they're in "we thank the party for its great idea to make an orphanage in our ex country house - we would have done the same if we were as smart as it" mode
ascii_field: ah same thing
mircea_popescu: and there's no remaining ones, except for this place.
mircea_popescu: i guess similar thing yeah ok
ascii_field: what of saud? brunei ?
mircea_popescu: if you go abroad it gets complicated.
ascii_field: or let's try the zaibatsus
mircea_popescu: there's a large contingent of liberts (such as bharara, on the bureaucratic side, such as http://qntra.net/2015/01/pierre-omidyar-also-started-a-qntra-back-in-october-his-failed/ on the accounting side etc)
assbot: Pierre Omidyar also started a Qntra back in October. His failed. | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1KWduTt )
mircea_popescu: freed slaves with "a lot of money" or "power" or "influence"
mircea_popescu: usually castrated prior to their ascension and torn to pieces by the crowd after.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: freed slaves aha.
mircea_popescu: they're cheap.
assbot: Jacob Torrey - My MiniLock Concerns ... ( http://bit.ly/1KWdN0p )
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 05:12:34; decimation: heh there are amusing layers here > "In 1854, when sculptor Thomas Crawford was preparing models for sculpture for the United States Capitol, Secretary of War Jefferson Davis (later to be the President of the Confederate States of America) insisted that a Phrygian cap not be included on a Statue of Freedom, on the grounds that "American liberty is original and not the liberty of the freed slave". "
mircea_popescu: which is the point of all the immigration
ascii_field: mats: gotta love the shitgnomatic pgptrons and truecryptrons
ascii_field: 'easy to use!! no keys files!!!'
mircea_popescu: ascii_field there's a bit to go with that : the more or less official hymn of the romanian revolution, which is this thing : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkI42zPuH7w (very neener tune, incidentally, much like the argentine's favourite thing - and btw those guys put the cap everywhere)
assbot: Imnul golanilor - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KWe0kn )
mats: if you put enough secret sauce in there, maybe no one will want to taste it
ascii_field: aha the damned cap is everywhere
mircea_popescu: it goes "better a hooligan than a communist" etc, and it specifically says "we do not wish for original liberty and other lies"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: didja know, even u.s. senate has it in their logo ?
ascii_field: and (at least formerly) u.s. army ?
mircea_popescu: the notion that anyone can have a peculiar, different, original liberty...
mircea_popescu: mats myeah, exactly.
ascii_field: mats: if i were fuhrer, i'd fire these louts. the crap isn't even -trying- to be plausible !
mircea_popescu: "the limit on open source is the open sourcer's willingness and ability to read code - so put more code in there!11"
mircea_popescu: ascii_field if you were fuhrer we wouldn't be at war in the first place.
mircea_popescu: the only reason we're here is that they're too stupid to understand they need to negotiate, and yesterday, or for that matter to correctly evaluate their hand
ascii_field: aaaand
ascii_field: 'Fwd: [Cryptography] Did Intel just execute its warrant canary ?'
mats: ^silliness
mircea_popescu: ahahaah wait, INTEL had a warrant canary ?
mircea_popescu: wtf is this roflmao
mircea_popescu: !up referredbyloper
ascii_field: hey, if apple could
ascii_field: why not intel
ascii_field: 'right hand bites left hand'
mircea_popescu: because intel's not cool.
mircea_popescu: you understand ? beria may rape women off the street.
mircea_popescu: the hero of the soviet union, marshall zhukov... no.
ascii_field: now this one's a definite yes.
ascii_field: mats: http://blog.jacobtorrey.com/my-minilock-concerns << i -still- insist that if your brainwallet is crackable, you are a moron
assbot: Jacob Torrey - My MiniLock Concerns ... ( http://bit.ly/1KWfQkY )
ascii_field: it is the ultimate 'iq test'
ascii_field: with instant results
mircea_popescu: iam not so convinced.
ascii_field: tests mental nimbleness, originality, memory, everything which makes someone worthy contender
mircea_popescu: let's work this out. ascii_field would you agree that the mental cost PER UNIT of generating five random bytes is larger than generating six ?
mircea_popescu: ie, that the marginal cost monotonically increases ?
ascii_field: this is mistaken right off the bat
mats: it can't be that hard
ascii_field: they don't need to be generated on the spot
mats: i use a memory palace
mircea_popescu: ok, we can aproach this one too.
ascii_field: perhaps i generated it when i was 5 y.o.
mircea_popescu: mats would you agree that your palace is standing ?
mats: not sure where we're going with this, but ok
mats: yes
mircea_popescu: did i just make a prediction about your palace ?
mats: no.
mats: perhaps i am not the right stand-in for this conversation...
mircea_popescu: perhaps.
mircea_popescu: i dun really think so tho.
ascii_field: go guess a bi- or tri- lingual macaronic poem that some fella wrote in his head as a boy.
ascii_field ^ not my key, for what it's worth. but example.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field but it was written in a language nevertheless, right ?
ascii_field: macaronic
mircea_popescu: and the argument here isn't about "guessing", it's about reducing entropy.
ascii_field: so, in this example, at least two languages
mircea_popescu: even so. constraints are present.
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't stand for this in your cardano rng.
ascii_field: i can 'reduce entropy' of mircea_popescu's pgp key by telling that the factors are odd. what of it.
ascii_field: still doesn't reduce it -usefully-
mircea_popescu: this obviously will only be verified in practice
ascii_field: it is certain to be.
mircea_popescu: as it's now an utility rather than a math argument
ascii_field: as it is, i would not trust serious coin, were i to have any, to anything other than brainwallet operated with optical keyboard connected to soviet z80.
ascii_field: in dark room.
ascii_field: (proper rng for the nonces, naturally)
ascii_field: this is the -real- difference between btc and gold
ascii_field: go and store gold in your brain.
ascii_field can even imagine 'disposable' computer for operating brainwallets. thermite brick after each transaction signature.
ascii_field: hey, z80 is cheap!
ascii_field: go look, 'ebay'
ascii_field: $1 or so from hong kong
ascii_field: so no, i have no patience for the 'brainwallets suck because you are stupid' argument.
ascii_field: incidentally, most people are already using the worst aspects of brainwallet -and- conventional crypto
mircea_popescu: brainwallets provedly suck in te general case
mircea_popescu: and i have my doubts about the particular case.
ascii_field: in that they keep multiple copies of their key around on the planet (or worse, don't)
ascii_field: and hence the location of key, and any symmetric decrypt password to it, -is- the brainwallet
ascii_field: i am not sold on the 'probably suck' bit.
ascii_field: *provably
mircea_popescu: but you've seen the general public lose btc to weak "brainwallets" ?
mircea_popescu: that's "the general case", what you tell urmom to do
ascii_field: and i don't give a fuck about general public
ascii_field: general public cannot and must not operate reactors
mircea_popescu: aha well k then
ascii_field: or cut own appendix
ascii_field: reactor man - operates reactor. surgeon - appendix.
mircea_popescu: the entire thing was mostly about instructing the bitcoin-lemmings (peeps who think themselves "the community") about where to not step on the tiger.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: my point is that everyone here is either using brainwallet in some form already (backup of your key in a postbox in japan, symmetrically encrypted with pw in your brain, and postbox # also in your brain) OR is one stint in pow camp away from 'civil death' (total loss of key)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56729 @ 0.00035435 = 20.1019 BTC [+]
ascii_field: so it is not a question of whether to use brainwallets - but whether to -also- use permanent copies of keys !
ascii_field: i would also like to point out that framing the question of key quality in terms of 'bits of entropy' is slightly misleading
ascii_field: because there are two kinds of 'entropy' here
ascii_field: one kind of the strictly-quantifiable varieties (kolmogorov, shannon, etc)
ascii_field: the other is actual 'guessability by enemy', a more nebulous thing
ascii_field: my favourite example is 'digits of pi', which max out (1) while being rock bottom on (2)
ascii_field: most defective (or subverted) electronic rng have similar property
ascii_field: 128 bits from first 1 petabyte of digits of pi will be guessed
ascii_field: 128 bits by a clever child in three languages - never
ascii_field: even if kolmogorov complexity of both is equal.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i can see that angle.
ascii_field: i urge mircea_popescu to eat some top ice cream and think of this.
mircea_popescu: "machine-empowered brainwallet"
ascii_field: machine is bonus. can hash on paper if you must.
mircea_popescu: the disagreement mostly stems from definitions tho. what people mean when they say "don't use brainwallets for you are stupid" mostly reduces to redditard going on brainwallet.org
ascii_field: (then - burn it.)
ascii_field: i normally presume 'fella knowing what he's doing' as the subject of my ruminations.
ascii_field: rather than 'will mr lamer shoot himself in the foot and blow away his entire torso'
mircea_popescu: unsafe presumption :D
mircea_popescu: !up referredbyloper
mircea_popescu: !up referredbyqntra
referredbyqntra: Thanks MP
referredbyqntra: http://dpaste.com/1MXJF0H Popehat or rather CloudFlare banning gpg content
assbot: dpaste: 1MXJF0H ... ( http://bit.ly/1KqkqtN )
referredbyqntra: That's the response when I try to put your declaration in there.
mircea_popescu: haha mmmmkay
referredbyqntra: I tried with and without link to deedbot.org but it barfs the same. Maybe allergic to -----
mircea_popescu: makes sense.
mircea_popescu: then again, this is kinda why we don't give a shit about the lot of them.
thestringpuller: i wonder how much irc traffic is referred by qntra/loper/trilema to here
BingoBoingo: So much log
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/preet.txt << there you go, a qntra exclusive. << To write up or paste verbatim?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ah, not necessarily either, at your disposal.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 100 @ 0.015 = 1.5 BTC [+]
scoopbot_revived: Popescu's Response to Bharara's Ulbrict Sentencing Commentary Inquisition http://qntra.net/2015/06/popescus-response-to-bhararas-ulbrict-sentencing-commentary-inquisition/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39746 @ 0.00036001 = 14.309 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: poor reddit, stuck with this sad situation where it doesn't matter, and the people doing things are the people it hates.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> mats would you agree that your palace is standing ? << My memory palace doesn't abide by such quaint physical conventions
mircea_popescu: yeah but he doesn't drink as much :D
mats: pot arguably rots the brain moar
mircea_popescu: the penis too
mats: o rly
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo mircea_popescu the text on that last qntra piece is overflowing instead of wrapping. it's broked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71700 @ 0.00036001 = 25.8127 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: prolly code element not playing well with long lines huh
mircea_popescu: or pre or whatever's used
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: What browser?
BingoBoingo: wraps on all my browsers
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo ah, seems to be safari-specific
pete_dushenski: serves me right !
BingoBoingo: Fuck safari if safari can't implement web standards
BingoBoingo: This isn't even derpy HTML5OMGWTFBBQBUTTSEX, this is simple fucking text presentation
mircea_popescu: odd huh.
assbot: G7 leaders agree to phase out fossil fuel use by end of century | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1MoZ7XY )
mircea_popescu: "the interwebs doesn't worx ? oh, you must be on a different browser"
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski feelings fusion to provide free energy soon
pete_dushenski: also soon : mars colonisation
pete_dushenski: because it works in theory.
BingoBoingo: Behold the glorious CSS which makes the <pre> text wrap: http://dpaste.com/19Q4G0T
assbot: dpaste: 19Q4G0T ... ( http://bit.ly/1KqpLkI )
BingoBoingo: Mozilla 1999, IE 5.5+, Opera since version 4, also works on Chromium and Midori that I tested
BingoBoingo: It is literally THE CSS snippet used everywhere to make <pre> text wrap. And safari chokes on it?
pete_dushenski: like apple's ceo chokes on it. yes.
mircea_popescu: Prior to this years HOPE conference, a few articles appeared touting Nadim Kobeissi's new project, miniLock and him and I got into a heated debate regarding some issues that I, as a certified non-cryptographer, was concerned about in his design (at least what I could gather from it from the pre-release Wired article). The essence of my concerns boiled down to the fact that in miniLock, Nadim is using the human user as
mircea_popescu: the sole source for entropy in the ECC key generation. At the time of the debate, Nadim suggested I wait until the big unveiling at HOPE to pass judgement as he had some research into secure human-generated pass-phrases that he was going to share.
mircea_popescu: HOPE was last weekend (I didn't go) and finally the design specification has been posted along with the audited code. It appears that my initial concerns were warranted, each key is generated directly from the user's pass-phrase with no salt, thus leaving the true amount of entropy in the key generation process highly unknown.
mircea_popescu: bwahaha o gawd.
mircea_popescu: and yet the guy ends his very apt article with "You can also find me on Twitter and GitHub."
mircea_popescu: why ? what exactly is the value of 2k followers that he would use the irreproducible value of his intellectual output to prop up twitter ?
mircea_popescu: more interestingly, facebook has had it's "turner buys myspace" moment, a while back. the only way it's going now is to that same 99.999% "value" drop. so did twitter. recently, so did github. the process of packaging the ignorant vouches of the average imbecile, selling them and running off has completed with facebook.
mircea_popescu: the process of packaging the ignorant vouches of your average 20something aspie "young professional" / marketing expert slut idem, with twitter.
mircea_popescu: finally, the ignorant vouches of random geek has been sold, in github. what's left ?
mircea_popescu: the empire's running out of shit to pretend like it stole.
mircea_popescu: maybe instead of phasing out "fossil fuels" the g7 tards should get together and phase out the pretense of gargle-economy.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:36:02; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159000 << what was this ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159094 << it's not merely that i don't think. i know they can not. you try simulating a limp with working legs, see where it gets you.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:38:14; funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159015 <-- one can simulate such a broken brain with a functional one dontcha think?
mircea_popescu: (and yes, i know these things from experience - i have the benefit that i can order slave girls do anything.)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159096 << you personally misrepresent your income, for whatever reasons, but you actually are mostly working for warrants these past coupla years. the others - probably a combination of incompetence (note that high functioning autism is still mental incompetence) and similar misrepresentation, similarly for whatever reasons.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:38:16; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159011 << this has to win some sort of prize for 'martial in atomic dirigible.' EVERYBODY i ever met in usa works for salary. i suppose it follows that neither i nor anyone i know in meatspace is 'even half-competent.'
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu current best theory is that 'gargleconomy' will generate enough heat to keep homes warms in the winter and enough feelgoodery to keep bellies full year-round.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159105 << no. being rich is not like that. being rich is like having the power to alter the course of the world, and the responsibility therein incumbent.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:41:24; asciilifeform: i suppose i should clarify, again, that i wasn't speaking of -actually working- as bureaucrat - that is, sitting in meetings, filing reports in triplicate. just that being paid to do, in effect, whatever the fuck you want, is almost like being rich.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski hey, it did it once or twice before...
mircea_popescu: to quote the pawnbroker, "more like a stench, if i remember"
pete_dushenski: quite so.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159107 << you're right, i have very little patience and give very little credit to the affectations of people. the usians are not special in this regard - like i don't give a shit for the argentines' or the romanians', similarly i don't give a shit there.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:43:17; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158992 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159018 << mircea_popescu travelled for years through usa but did not, apparently, discover the caste system we have here. said system explains why you will never see an engineer contemplate 'working with a pimp' or considering whether prison may be a good vacation.
mircea_popescu: caste schmaste.
pete_dushenski: and being rich is most definitely not waking up at 7am every day to fill out paperwork and have coffee with a gaggle of geese
pete_dushenski: which is what bureaucracy is.
mircea_popescu: if the geese have nice tits...
mircea_popescu: how's canada pimpin' these days btw ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu quite well !
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159107 << why shouldn't the poor blacks get some cheese ?
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:43:17; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1158992 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159018 << mircea_popescu travelled for years through usa but did not, apparently, discover the caste system we have here. said system explains why you will never see an engineer contemplate 'working with a pimp' or considering whether prison may be a good vacation.
pete_dushenski: summer is here at long, long last
mircea_popescu: what, it hath been ordained for the "nordicx systems" only ?
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 13:50:05; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159076 << you know full well what kind of 'foreigners' sweden is importing, and why.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98400 @ 0.00036128 = 35.55 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 18:43:12; mircea_popescu: HOPE was last weekend (I didn't go) and finally the design specification has been posted along with the audited code. It appears that my initial concerns were warranted, each key is generated directly from the user's pass-phrase with no salt, thus leaving the true amount of entropy in the key generation process highly unknown.
mircea_popescu: i agree, it is.
ascii_field: i just love the weird twist of the tongue - symptom of some mental fissure, surely
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159515 << ah, him. i think diametric knew the fellow. ask'im
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 18:51:02; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159090 ;;google Sean Smith
mircea_popescu: no need to ask nething really, it's all on public record.
mircea_popescu: no batallion.
ascii_field: battalion for some, for others - free burial
mircea_popescu: this doesn't work as a theory.
mircea_popescu: otherwise we'd still be on the pre-copernican astronomy.
mircea_popescu: "revolution for some - ??? for others!"
mircea_popescu: i can guarantee the schmuck in question had no "batallion", on the plain grounds that there isn't such a thing.
mircea_popescu: the reason the potus "security" is such circus is exactly the reason oprah's pay is so advertised :
mircea_popescu: to cover for the fact that i can go into the chambers of the ny comissioner for finance, and rape him.
ascii_field: go steal mr o's 'football' then
ascii_field: ought to be a convincing argument.
ascii_field: esp. if it works.
mircea_popescu: it does not trickle down.
mircea_popescu: mr o's "football"'s security protects you, bharara, forrest and cuomo just as much
mircea_popescu: which is to say not at all.
mircea_popescu: the only true universal equality, the equality to zero.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159517 << again it is very easy to simulate the limp if -no one if checking- and it is enough to say 'yeah i limp' see the bureaucracy thread.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 18:53:12; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159094 << it's not merely that i don't think. i know they can not. you try simulating a limp with working legs, see where it gets you.
mircea_popescu: it dun work thatway.
ascii_field: *if no one is
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it worked great. they pay you, and you sit in a broom closet and mostly do whatever.
mircea_popescu: worked, yes.
mircea_popescu: in the past. always in the past tense, this.
ascii_field: well, i personally only witnessed ~3 yrs of it, on account of the garden of eden having went under
mircea_popescu: which was in no way related to any politics
mircea_popescu: it just.... happened.
ascii_field: (i personally was only in it by accident, and one cannot replicate an accident)
shinohai: *one cannot replicate an accident
ascii_field: did not say 'this is a mega-system that will last 10,000 years and build many fine pyramids.' but was trying to explain why a thinking person might voluntarily work for usg somewhere
mircea_popescu: and the explanation comes out to "any girl can get so horny one night she fucks a dog"
ascii_field: because per -hour of Actual Work- they demand, you get $10,000.
ascii_field: and yes, not at post office
ascii_field: or patent office
ascii_field: but .mil
fluffypony: !up hegemoOn
ascii_field: and yes, this reduces to 'mouse economy', lasts while there is cheese
hegemoOn: hello there
hegemoOn: i wanted to share this arxiv.org research paper on bitcoin : http://arxiv.org/abs/1506.01513
assbot: [1506.01513] Social signals and algorithmic trading of Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1FSBr9Q )
hegemoOn: pretty fresh (4 june 2015)??
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159520 << l0l mircea_popescu, last i checked i was paying rent with usd, 100% of which comes from the fine fella i work for at $dayjob.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 18:54:56; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159096 << you personally misrepresent your income, for whatever reasons, but you actually are mostly working for warrants these past coupla years. the others - probably a combination of incompetence (note that high functioning autism is still mental incompetence) and similar misrepresentation, similarly for whatever reasons.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field unrealised income is not for that reason automatically not income.
mircea_popescu: accounting's a fascinating field.
mircea_popescu: hegemoOn written by whom ?
hegemoOn: David Garcia, Frank Schweitzer
ascii_field engineer not accountant. so can't say 'submarine is powered by future energy.' it has to be powered by what is aboard.
mircea_popescu: never heard of 'em.
hegemoOn: Chair of Systems Design, ETH Zurich
hegemoOn: Weinbergstrasse 56/58, 8092 Zurich, Switzerland
mircea_popescu: whatevs.
mircea_popescu: let the man learn enough about how to use a computer to get a gpg sig and register it with the bot.
mircea_popescu: until that day, he can continue playing with the xbox or w/e it is he's doing.
hegemoOn: whom ???
mircea_popescu: either david garcia or frank whoever, chair of whatever else.
mircea_popescu: you were under the impression they're adults or something ?
hegemoOn: mircea_popescu: i think most of bitcoin trade are outside wot :)
mircea_popescu: you'd think that, sure.
mircea_popescu: most africans thing the world is africa, for that matter, and so outside of the world.
hegemoOn: but if you are not interested i can understand, just wanted to share a good paper :)
mircea_popescu: !gettrust hegemoOn
assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user hegemoOn: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=hegemoOn | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/hegemoOn/
mircea_popescu: why's it good ?
mircea_popescu: so many people trying to matter in bitcoin "on their own terms" producing so much junk that's - to them, no doubt - meaningful and important that's not worth reading
mircea_popescu: what's so special about this one that made you click ? start with that part.
mircea_popescu: on its own strength, two kids pulling their dicks in zurich aren't worth the time of day.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159523 << being rich, in my cosmography, simply means that your time is your own to do with as you please. everything else (starting wars, producing great inventions, etc.) is a cherry on the cake.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 18:56:49; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159105 << no. being rich is not like that. being rich is like having the power to alter the course of the world, and the responsibility therein incumbent.
mircea_popescu: it dun work like that, not really.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it dun work thatway. << easy enough to give onself an actual limp for arbitrary periods of time.
ascii_field: pray tell, how not?
ascii_field: all i personally want out of a hypothetical 'be rich' is for my daylight hours to belong to me and only me
ascii_field: with all else - constant
mircea_popescu: take the sexual metaphor. sure, sexual freedom would supperficially appear to be that situation where "the cunt;'s your own to do as you please". however, the cunt so liberated from a context wherein cocks make demands upon it is not in any sense something for you to do as you please, it's just a painful bit of bleeding garbage enbittering your existence.
ascii_field: ^ i find this example utterly opaque
mircea_popescu: (note that this example is gender-invariant)
ascii_field: is it just me ?
mircea_popescu: ok, something else then.
mircea_popescu: horse's notion of freedom is "the ability to run where it will". nevertheless, absent a ground to push him up and an atmosphere to push him down, the horse's freedom's not quite what he imagined, but rather painful if short an affair.
mircea_popescu: or, if you prefer, that chinese story where cocklet in love wished the entire world went away and was left with just his darling
mircea_popescu: only to wish the world back into the picture piecemeal as the clock ticked seconds away
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is trying to convince the horse not of the necessity of the ground, but of the yoke
ascii_field is an entirely unconvinced horse
mircea_popescu: no such thing.
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> mircea_popescu is trying to convince the horse not of the necessity of the ground, but of the yoke << Once free of yoke it becomes necessary to "protect your neck" to keep the yoke away
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: this is compiled into my definition of 'freed'
mircea_popescu: well then your definition of freed is compiled on gcc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84683 @ 0.00036257 = 30.7035 BTC [+] {2}
hegemoOn: can someone explain me what assbot just said ?
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: hegemoOn: assbot tickered a transaction on the tapeophone
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: how much 'freed' is achievable by mortals can be debated, but i'd settle for mircea_popescu-grade 'freed.'
hegemoOn: BingoBoingo: what kind of asset is it mpoe ?
mircea_popescu: it comes with an obligation, unenforced but nevertheless perceived, to for instance http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159202
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 16:08:37; mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/preet.txt
mircea_popescu: is that a yoke ? if not, why not.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i get it, 'heavy is the crown' etc
mircea_popescu: heavy is the frigian cap more like it.
ascii_field: i'll take that 'heavy'
BingoBoingo: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00034281 / 0.00036145 / 0.00037646 (3520048 shares, 1,272.34 BTC), 7D: 0.00031083 / 0.00034987 / 0.00037646 (42475653 shares, 14,861.19 BTC), 30D: 0.00023904 / 0.00030515 / 0.00037646 (139278699 shares, 42,501.20 BTC)
mircea_popescu: alrighty then. so apparently alf is a very convinced horse ?
BingoBoingo: ^ hegemoOn that one
ascii_field: crown != yoke
hegemoOn: it's a "futur" ?
lobbes: still, you have the freedom to throw the crown off and sit on thumbs for a year
BingoBoingo: hegemoOn: It's a stock
mircea_popescu: hegemoOn do they have google in your country ?
hegemoOn: mircea_popescu: no just yahoo
ascii_field: if mircea_popescu wanted to, he could vanish from the map and spend the rest of his existence in the company of ice cream, gurlz, and theorems
BingoBoingo: hegemoOn: Look at that 30 day volume though
mircea_popescu: lobbes sure. and in exchange, should you choose to do that, you get to see how they're "phasing out" grassland
mircea_popescu: or whatever the shit they come up with next.
mircea_popescu: sitting on thumbs and stroking cocks over "FOSS!111" has resulted in pretty much unusable software.
thestringpuller: "Even as an avid Bitcoiner, I can't stand waiting for bitcoinqt to sync. Makes me wonder if Gavin/Mike sabotaged it." via https://twitter.com/BitcoinErrorLog/status/608621825703223296
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely certain that 'we' (en masse) -ever- had 'usable software'
mircea_popescu: ms-dos worked.
trinque: ascii_field | if mircea_popescu wanted to, he could vanish from the map and spend the rest of his existence in the company of ice cream, gurlz, and theorems << and meanwhile they're making theorems illegal
mircea_popescu: and it WAS open source.
mircea_popescu: aha trinque gets it
ascii_field: ms-dos was not asked to do very much. at least, at first. but i still remember screwing with qemm, xms, etc. towards the last years.
ascii_field: it wasn't fun
lobbes: and meanwhile they're making theorems illegal << just keep running? debatable if that is true freedom, but arguably you wouldn't run out of places to run before end of life
mircea_popescu: lobbes this is EXACTLY what wall street has tried, 1945 - 2015
mircea_popescu: if you think "they" have a different set of problems... they don't.
ascii_field: what problems in particular ?
ascii_field a bit puzzled
shinohai: *is interesting
mircea_popescu: ascii_field in this case, the "running" he describes.
ascii_field: who is rothchild running from ?
pete_dushenski: ^started with "safari sucks a bag o' dix"
pete_dushenski: ended with a planted file on a website hosting old versions of browsers, irc clients, etc.
mircea_popescu: didja email them ?
pete_dushenski: not yet. will now.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field me.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Give midori a go. Just keep in mind its SSL implementation is especially retared so http is not going to really offer much of an illusion even of protection
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: wake me up when you catch him. i'd like a finger or toe as keychain.
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: can haz the payload plz ?
assbot: Old Version of Firefox 29.0 Download - OldApps.com for Mac ... ( http://bit.ly/1KqzyY7 )
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: no
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: i want -your- binary
ascii_field: with signature
ascii_field: who the fuck knows what is hosted at this moment.
pete_dushenski: good point.
ascii_field: don't ever think of the enemy as a mechanism
pete_dushenski: gimme a sec.
BingoBoingo: Ah, meter reading day.
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: goodwill is my new favorite store! just picked up 5 pairs of shorts and 3 cat5e+ cables for under 30 USD
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I still favor Rural king where you can get flowers, carhart, circus peanuts, and an AR-15 in the same trip
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: sounds expensive
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Prolly would be. Never picked up that last item from there, but it is possible.
shinohai: My closest solution to a decent fap bot thus far are categorized rss feeds.
BingoBoingo: Another hypothetical Rural king shopping trip is beef jerky, well drilling apparatus, unsinkable brown water vessel, and hay.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: galois's in on the btc-usg-bezzle?
nubbins`: dat time when -otc failed to produce a buyer for a lowly 1btc sell and nubs had to rely on circle
danielpbarron: i woulda bought it
mod6: hey nubbins`, did you ever see that issue on gentoo that I was talkin about lastnight?
nubbins`: i don't think so, log me up
nubbins`: danielpbarron you still can
nubbins`: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 228.72, Best ask: 229.02, Bid-ask spread: 0.30000, Last trade: 229.0, 24 hour volume: 10489.59325785, 24 hour low: 227.48, 24 hour high: 230.02, 24 hour vwap: None
mod6: I haven't looked too deep into it, maybe something I missed. I did apply your & ascii's patches. http://dpaste.com/0DSP4BS.txt
nubbins`: that's a new one for me
mod6: I'm using uclibc, so far going well.
mod6: ok.
nubbins`: are you using the buildroot toolchain?
nubbins`: or targeting gentoo
mod6: I did have to copy over all of the openssl headers as you were saying once upon a time, but maybe i'm missing something else.
mod6: no, its just straight v0.5.3.1-RELEASE, i'll get to buildroot eventually.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159715 << now, i didn't see with own eyes. nor do i have own intel dept. like mircea_popescu. but from the evidence presently known to me - yes.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 20:17:58; ben_vulpes: ascii_field: galois's in on the btc-usg-bezzle?
hanbot: <asciilifeform> http://thewhet.net/2015/browder-the-bitcoinless << do you recall tlp's 'if you're reading it, it's for you' maxim? consider, why is this fella on front page of nyt? vs the $maxint other folks held without trial << i do remember, yeah. results of recommended consideration are grotesque for sure. all the more reason to hang out in here.
assbot: Browder the Bitcoinless | The Whet ... ( http://bit.ly/1KqEqfP )
BingoBoingo: Fuck you reddit. The one time there is something almost worthwhile they kill it https://www.reddit.com/r/fatpeoplehate
assbot: fatpeoplehate: this subreddit has been banned ... ( http://bit.ly/1QMQQP4 )
nubbins`: fat people hate?
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: i thought this was a mac binary ?!
pete_dushenski: you thought wrong !
BingoBoingo: Even fucking /r/fatlogic was banned.
ascii_field: and did you just clearsign a binary!?!??!
pete_dushenski: see my article
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Indeed
ascii_field: plz post virginal binary, with detached sig
ascii_field: this one is not usable and i'm surprised your pgptron agreed to shit it out
BingoBoingo: The one time I encounter a hate movement with quality momentum to take off it gets fucking banned.
pete_dushenski: lol one sex.
ascii_field: (dashes removed, newlines swapped, other things which do not make for a usable winblows exe)
pete_dushenski: ascii_field and there's no detached sig, only checksums
pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field
pete_dushenski: i gotta jet. i'll post it up later. cheers
nubbins`: clearsigned bin :0
nubbins`: no wonder pete has an attitude, he obv doesn't give a fuck :D
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2014 11:29:00; random_cat: mircea_popescue: <a href="http://xeur.bitcoin-central.net/">here</a> on http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.EUR is apparently invalid
danielpbarron: ;;later tell davout ^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
danielpbarron: I'm curious as to how this future thing works through coinbr
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Last I heard Jurov shows up at you case with a suitcase full of euros
danielpbarron: that's if you have a key registered with MPEx
danielpbarron: oh you said jurov
mircea_popescu: hm yeh dead huh.
ascii_field: ;;later tell pete_dushenski i got it, but you oughta post it publicly.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: greetings danielpbarron o/ No news from the wonderful world of bitcoind?
assbot: SLiMGUR - A Shitlord Image Host ... ( http://bit.ly/1dxsFqR )
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: wtf is a 'shitlord'
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: It's what the social justice types call people who act like people. It was used as a slur too often and now people wear the title shitlord with pride.
danielpbarron: shinohai, my 0.5.3.x pogo is 6 blocks behind my 0.7.2 full size machine, and I'm not sure if it's because the network doesn't like two nodes asking for the same blocks from the same IP or what
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: A shitlord is basic anti-stupid
BingoBoingo: in some form or another
trinque: can confirm, am unrepentant shitlord
shinohai: You got me interested in that pogo thingy. I got one ordered.
shinohai: My other node, however, hums along perfectly of late.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159520 << re: "high functioning autism" -- I just found out about this internet phenomenon -> https://youtu.be/wEKLxgRJnAc?t=2m20s
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 18:54:56; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159096 << you personally misrepresent your income, for whatever reasons, but you actually are mostly working for warrants these past coupla years. the others - probably a combination of incompetence (note that high functioning autism is still mental incompetence) and similar misrepresentation, similarly for whatever reasons.
assbot: (NSFW) "For J-R's Eyes Only.MOV" A.K.A. PUSSY EATING 102 [4/19/10] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1dxtfFb )
mircea_popescu: ascii_field originally it was supposed to be some thing really cool 19yo girls with a modelling/pr career say about socially marginal, sexually undesirable geeks. five to ten years later it emerged as the new cool.
mircea_popescu: you know, like "faggot"
mircea_popescu: actually... perhaps more like "punk"
assbot: configure: Detect (and reject) LibreSSL · bitcoin/bitcoin@a5a81f7 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1dxtHTK )
mircea_popescu: lmao wut ?
mircea_popescu: herp, luke being luke.
davout: danielpbarron: werks nao
deedbot-: accepted: 1
davout: while we're at it
assbot: ThePiachu's Bitcoin Blog: Handling bitcoins during a hard fork - pondering Bitcoin XT ... ( http://bit.ly/1dxukgh )
trinque: still chewing on that discussion of freedom
trinque: I tend to think it's a bad concept to work with
ascii_field: trinque: when you have ebola, your concept of health turns into 'not having ebola'
ascii_field: this is both reasonable and practical.
ascii_field: i know exactly what i want to be free of.
trinque: right, one can consider being liberated from a particular shackle
trinque: particularly considering human societies, do I want to be "totally free" whatever that means, playing cards on the worlds nicest beach, or do I want to be a part of the best-functioning giant human meat robot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 178911 @ 0.00036883 = 65.9877 BTC [+] {4}
danielpbarron: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHKc3liU0AAMckE.jpg << check out my new business card (sorry nubbins` I'm not ready to be a baller yet)
trinque: I'm skeptical of the american notion of individualism, but am not precisely sure how far to take that skepticism
shinohai: nice danielpbarron
trinque: probably not getting it across
BingoBoingo: Reddit kinda lulzy at the moment shitlords are revolting against the admins https://www.reddit.com/r/all/
assbot: all subreddits ... ( http://bit.ly/1IGLOED )
trinque: the highest good being some kind of infinite individual liberation sounds like something we crapped into the mental ether
ascii_field: trinque: it is what folks with ideas of their own generally want
danielpbarron upvotes it all in total disregard for reddiquette
ascii_field: i, for instance, have sufficient undeveloped inventions to occupy me were i to live even 10,000 years
trinque: are you free of your desire to invent, or does it viscerally urge you without asking first?
ascii_field: what do you think.
trinque: !up ascii_field
trinque: that I can choose to ignore my desires or not, but I have not yet found the controls if any for desiring itself
trinque: they just seem to be there, built in
trinque: this in my ignorance, I think, grasps for an explanation for why the rich don't simply count their gold all day
ascii_field: trinque: see mircea_popescu's example about 'drinking the sea'
hanbot: trinque what does it matter if you have visceral urges or not, beyond using them as a diagnostic to tell whether or not you're alive?
ascii_field: thirsty man thinks he wishes to 'drink the sea'
trinque: hanbot: it's not a question of mattering
trinque: they *are*
trinque: I take a breath because thats what a functioning human body does
hanbot: yeah. but what of it? you can understand them and act rationally, or not. what else is there?
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> i know exactly what i want to be free of. << my tao cat smile is thiiiiis wide
mircea_popescu: hint : you're well aware that eliberation is not necessarily the path to freedom. nuland's all about eliberations after all :D
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159753 << you know they could just go to 8chan and leave the corporapizde be.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 20:33:45; BingoBoingo: The one time I encounter a hate movement with quality momentum to take off it gets fucking banned.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i have been to free-time-land and it was the one part of my life that was actually worth living
ascii_field: so no one can say that i speak of hypotheticals.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There's a settlement of diaspora folk there
assbot: /fatpeoplehate/ - We hate fatties ... ( http://bit.ly/1GfB3p6 )
mircea_popescu: seems an imageboard way more adequate than reddit for the purpose anyway
mircea_popescu: and for the record, "accepting" fat people on the mere basis of them being fat people is exactly as morally wrong / intellectually bankrupt as hating them for the same reason.
trinque: hanbot: there's why bother to live in the first place, and act at all
trinque: not something I can say to you, in my case
hanbot: ascii_field i suspect the point is less about the where you are and more about the who you are. whatever gets to you in the present scenario will follow you to free-time-land or anywhere else, though probably in costume.
ascii_field: possibly mircea_popescu did not know this, but in usa 'fat' is a proxy for other things (mainly caste-related)
trinque: people-of-walmart ?
mircea_popescu: fat has always been this.
mircea_popescu: like, women with long nails -> do not need to work -> etc
trinque: hanbot: something along the lines of "because the meat robot is programmed that way" way lower than whatever is having a conversation with itself
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: except we have it here in reverse. in usa, grotesque fat is (in recent decades; not speaking of president taft etc) seen as a sign of poverty (not in the no-money sense, but in the offensively-stupid-poor (tm) )
mircea_popescu: aha. the macula of welfare.
ascii_field: (the 'why' is a separate subject, but it is not a baseless notion)
mircea_popescu: "you may eat for free, but the food will make you stay here"
ascii_field: (tm) (r) hades
mircea_popescu: but mind that reverse-indication is still not different indicatively.
mircea_popescu: whether fat = rich or fat = poor, fat signifies.
ascii_field: in that sense yes
ascii_field: they just flipped the sign bit.
mircea_popescu: and judging by signifiers rather than by realities is exactly the path to perdition
mircea_popescu: this is the crux of the entire discussion (of all text, as it were) : the ought/is debate is exactly this, observing the perils of judging by signifiers.
mircea_popescu: the cause/purpose idem.
mircea_popescu: the map/territory observation, idem.
ascii_field: !s name of the song
assbot: 3 results for 'name of the song' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=name+of+the+song
mircea_popescu: in the end, whosoever references pointers is going to end up with bitrot.
mircea_popescu: but yes, it is "faster". and of course "cheaper"
ascii_field: ;;google Haddocks' Eyes
gribble: Haddocks' Eyes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haddocks'_Eyes>; Haddocks' Eyes?: <http://www.haddockseyes.com/>; Haddocks' Eyes - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXBwWYFTcbE>
mircea_popescu: and we might be able to spend our entire lives running from it
mircea_popescu: or maybe not.
hanbot: trinque i'm sure it's a worthwhile investigation :)
trinque: been up one wall of my skull and down the other; I may be a barbarian
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> and for the record, "accepting" fat people on the mere basis of them being fat people is exactly as morally wrong / intellectually bankrupt as hating them for the same reason. << Hate is an emotional reaction, in this case to aesthetics
lobbes: is a learned reaction, I would argue
ascii_field: notice that nobody really hates other kinds of deformed folks
ascii_field: e.g. paraplegics
ascii_field: hence the caste connection
mircea_popescu: i imagine the same thing drives people to kill cockroaches / rats / assorted vermin, to wash, to choose their sex mates and to reject fatties.
mircea_popescu: it offends a sense of order.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: this is especially cartoon-coloured vivid in children
mircea_popescu: ascii_field plenty of people do, actually. children certainly impulsivley hate all abnormality.
ascii_field: this - yes
shinohai: so no BBW porn in the bot. got it.
trinque: wah ha ha
trinque: mircea_popescu: that sense of order thing might have something to do with what I'm babbling about
trinque: the kids hate weird because.
trinque: sure I have a rational reason for not wanting to be near someone sneezing
mircea_popescu: https://media.8ch.net/fatpeoplehate/src/1433969031770-0.jpg << kinmda lulzy. who's the bespectacled geek ?
trinque: doesn't mean that's what hit me first, or caused me to consider it in the first place
shinohai: Chairman Ellen Pao
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The Pao chick who is their new CEO, the one suing their former employer for insufficient promotions
trinque: reality gives you the options, then you select
trinque: there's no freedom to define reality itself
BingoBoingo: But yes this obese underclass is typically refered to as hamplanets, they routinely exceed 350 pounds.
BingoBoingo: It's the corn thing.
shinohai: mircea_popescu should buy reddit and force her to wax floors or something
mircea_popescu: if only it were ham
mircea_popescu: it's usually lard.
mircea_popescu: why would i bother / expend effort and energy to serve her ?
mircea_popescu: anywya, i'm not gonna post on 8chan seeing how i still olathe captchas, but here's my contribution to resolving the conflict & fat acceptance : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk
assbot: Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1B7jXuo )
mircea_popescu: (nordic system)
nubbins`: <+ascii_field> mircea_popescu: i have been to free-time-land and it was the one part of my life that was actually worth living <<< wait now, you've been getting it this whole time? :/
mircea_popescu: he's perverse isn't he.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: what's so perverse here, l0l
nubbins`: "fat people hate" = zzzz
nubbins`: imagine being so empty of purpose that you put actual energy into creating internet fat shame memes
nubbins`: how depressing
mircea_popescu: how's this different from "imagine being so empty of purpose that you put actual energy into dirtying paper"
lobbes: ah, is this the cause/purpose thing again?
lobbes: I guess if one genuinely enjoys making shame memes, go for it
lobbes: just don't delude yourself that it is towards a purpose
mircea_popescu: what, dja think those people imagine they're making a better world ?
mircea_popescu: i thought that's the libertard fallacy.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski and ben_vulpes are pretty cool though so I feel bad if I hate jooz nao. Hating on smelly butter golems though is fine.
trinque: lol
ascii_field: i'm happy to settle for the dream of making a -worse- world - for the enemy.
ascii_field: good enough motivator for damn near everything i work on
lobbes: BingoBoingo: what if one day you meet a butter golem you genuinely like? either hate big or don't hate at all, I say
lobbes: go for the gusto
trinque: ascii_field: I'm just going for "died on my feet"
trinque: will revise as things improve
BingoBoingo: lobbes: See, good hating begins with wordplay.
mircea_popescu: what's a butter golem ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The sort of rollie pollie that needs a rag on a stick to clean itself and always is covered in an oily sheen
BingoBoingo: There's a whole vocabluary. Mini moons are fat kids, hamplanets are big and round. ham galaxies are the ones so big they flatten out on surfaces... Beetus monsters are covered in weeping wounds on their legs
BingoBoingo: Hating on the merely overweight is kind of a non-starter for me, but here in 'Murica there is no shortage of clearly celestial bodies to hate on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93750 @ 0.00035959 = 33.7116 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: you would really enjoy dan mocsny's collected writings.
ascii_field: mocsny wrote, among many things, re: how it is not really possible to become 'galactically' fat without a host of 'unsung heroes' - enablers who feed you, wipe arse, etc
ascii_field: and how those folks never seem to get 'press'
ascii_field: yet what they do is not unlike what mengele did
ascii_field: in terms of sheer perversity
mircea_popescu: they just mean to help
ascii_field: mengele also 'helped'
trinque: I hate Yellen far more than any hamplanet
trinque: and many others
BingoBoingo: !up Pierre_Rochard
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125221 @ 0.00037746 = 47.2659 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: "The great thing about /r/fatpeoplehate was it was a prominent (6th most active) part of an extremely popular website. This is too private; we aren't pissing off fatties being here."
mircea_popescu: ah mystery explained. k.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159143 << quite unconvincingly. the only reason that guy wasn't warhol is that at the time the libertard infrastructure did not exist that'd support a warhol. he tried and tried, but with libertardicy in its infancy he merely scraped by.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 14:05:28; funkenstein_: Henry Miller goes on and on about his right to starve, rather unconvincingly
mircea_popescu: (dali did a lot better, but dali quite specifically whored out to power rather than to plebes)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159157 williamdunne's not been around in a few days, relax eh
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 14:13:23; asciilifeform: ^^^ where the hell is my ticker ?!
funkenstein_: lol :) well this helps me understand what is meant by libertardicy
assbot: reboot of the newly destroyed fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2Giq7 )
mircea_popescu: "we the people" misunderstood as "we the pointlessly hopeful and unwarrantedly aspirational"
funkenstein_: young, dumb, and full of bezzle ?
mircea_popescu: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A76BF4503AE2C55107D537EDABB05BDFB3DB93A3CAF697C1C5073FDD9EEF8F4E << interesting how these cluster. now we have a pure M * 29. rather than 11 or 13 rounding out, we get 29 diverging even further from expectation.
assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2GohH )
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ it's really dbezzle/dt. not bezzle yet.
mircea_popescu: likely, not bezzle ever.
funkenstein_: ah right. "income".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133200 @ 0.00035784 = 47.6643 BTC [-] {3}
funkenstein_: the latest ben fulford piece is pretty good
funkenstein_: not sure why i like him, considering a decade of wrong predictions once a week
assbot: The soft underbelly of hedonism, exposed. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2HiL0 )
funkenstein_: i can smell that sundae :)
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159811 <-- reminds me of a joke translated to me from mandarin
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 21:40:27; trinque: I'm skeptical of the american notion of individualism, but am not precisely sure how far to take that skepticism
funkenstein_: american, african, and chinese are all asked, what's your opinion of your country's food?
funkenstein_: american says: wait what's my country?
funkenstein_: african says: wait what's food?
funkenstein_: chinese says: wait, what's my opinion?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159963 << go ahead & generate a few million 4096-bit turds using your favourite /dev/random. see how many divisible by 29.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 23:57:56; mircea_popescu: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A76BF4503AE2C55107D537EDABB05BDFB3DB93A3CAF697C1C5073FDD9EEF8F4E << interesting how these cluster. now we have a pure M * 29. rather than 11 or 13 rounding out, we get 29 diverging even further from expectation.
mircea_popescu: just about every 30th :D
asciilifeform: so whence the 'divergence from expectation' ?
mircea_popescu: we currently have 29 like 4 times (expected 2ish) and 11 or 13 0 times
assbot: The strange case of the unentropic entropy and other bedtime stories of primes and people. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1f3ZkFJ )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: try confining the search to the non-mirrored moduli
asciilifeform: although these, too, may have odd properties, being (as far as i can determine) mutilated versions of 'proper' ones
asciilifeform: not certain if we have a sufficiently large sample of these to make solid empirical conjecture
asciilifeform: (number theorists in the audience, please ready your barf bags)
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i prefer: 'american says: what's food? chinese says: country ? african: wait, someone asked for my opinion?!'
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159915 << the problem with agreeing to become the ball in a game of liberasty football is that, well, folks will kick you
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 22:26:59; nubbins`: imagine being so empty of purpose that you put actual energy into creating internet fat shame memes
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
Vexual: hi, the amount of alcohol required to parse the logs is increasing
asciilifeform: mod6, ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al: did we ever discuss nuking the 'randomized change address' thing ?
asciilifeform: because in my considered opinion, it is clinically retarded
asciilifeform: and must die (tm)
Vexual: just a matter of time
Vexual: what the foundation policy on sending small amounts?
asciilifeform: Vexual: none of this is 'matter of time.' if we shoot it in the head, it dies. otherwise - lives.
asciilifeform: and i don't see how amounts matter.
Vexual: yeah, that was more aabout the amount of alcohol reqd
Vexual: so why disallow sending 1 satoshi?
asciilifeform: Vexual: go, send
asciilifeform: other folks won't retransmit, because 'sheepskin not worth the tanning'
Vexual: yes yes
asciilifeform: Vexual: we're not in the business of trying to euchre strange into the network rules. for that, go straight to phoundation.
asciilifeform: i'm kinda surprised that gavin and his merry gnomish friends have not attempted to reinstate 'dust'
asciilifeform: to help fill blocks
Vexual: what of poorly designed services that might send unconfirmed amounts with fees then?
Vexual: another matter^
asciilifeform: what of poorly designed services that connect a user's mouth to his own arse ?
Vexual: well im postulating, i dont know of any
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the problem with it ?
asciilifeform: with what ?
Vexual: dust
asciilifeform: Vexual: just postulating that gavin & co would like to see blocks fill up, to help push their phork
funkenstein_: lifting all these blocks gonna give me a hearneia
mircea_popescu: the change address
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the classical 'random change address' is absolutely lethal to wallet backups
asciilifeform: thought that this was obvious to all
asciilifeform: i have serious trouble grasping what justification there could possibly be for it
asciilifeform: i can't fathom how a serious bitcoin user would be willing to tolerate it.
mircea_popescu: nothing prevents you from generating any arbitrary count of addresses.
funkenstein_: one solution is to just rip out all the wallet stuff completely
mircea_popescu: moreover, backups should be periodic anyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking here of the default 'sendtoaddress' behaviour.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: we spoke of this. i say that'd be braindamaged, because we are maintaining a -reference client-
mircea_popescu: you can pre-load your wallet with 100k addresses for future use.
asciilifeform: which means that it is a complete description of bitcoin.
asciilifeform: this is why the cpu miner stays
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, you can. but bitcoind as we have it will generate a 100,001th if you fire it.
asciilifeform: (alternatively, we could deprecate 'sendtoaddress' in favour of 'sendmany' only)
mircea_popescu: alternatively we could just leave this be for now and focus on CLOSING things rather than opening new things before we closed anything.
asciilifeform: did not say it has to be shot -today-.
asciilifeform: (not like it's a hard patch)
asciilifeform: but as overall question.
asciilifeform: why keep a pistol that fires towards the hilt in your pistol collection ?
funkenstein_: by random change address, I thought you meant the order it is listed in the TX
mircea_popescu: because it's your father's pistol collection and nobody asked you anything ?
mircea_popescu: throwing out the pistols that are on fire is one thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by that token, ought not to touch any of it, l0l
mircea_popescu: but the rest can be shaved later
asciilifeform: i see the 'generate change addr' as a boobytrap for the unwary (and extra lines of code) with no rational justification for continued existence
asciilifeform: but that's just me.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the change address mechanism is bizarre, esp in its interraction with backups, but imo not actually doing anything bad. you shouldn't have backups that it affects negatively anyway, if you comprehend backups.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how do you propose to create a backup that it won't affect ?
mircea_popescu: there's a huge difference from taking out harmful stuff and taking out spurious stuff. these are never ghoing to be the first step, and we've not completed the first step yet
mircea_popescu: ergo, they're untouchable for now
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when you speak of "a" backup you're already out in cosmic space. backups are a process not an item.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'generate addr' for instance prevents the use of the hypothetical 'brainwallet' machine discussed earlier.
mircea_popescu: tough :D
asciilifeform: well, on closer look, it doesn't.
asciilifeform: (you craft a tx and feed it into the machine for signing, when you visit the darkroom)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of 'hands off father's pistols,' i'm still waiting for a 'meta,' 'theevenmorerealbitcoin.org' which will take issue with the excision of 'orphans' etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8872 @ 0.00037892 = 3.3618 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: if the enemy had any class to speak of, this'd be a master trolltron
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5081 @ 0.00037212 = 1.8907 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: unrelated:
asciilifeform: has anyone contemplated collecting the set of sks keys which crash the parser ?
asciilifeform: i bet a good chunk of those is stego blob
asciilifeform: for botnet c&c, etc.
asciilifeform: (since sks will apparently host -anything- purporting to be a key)
asciilifeform: and - apparently - permanently
asciilifeform: or is this, too, folks are waiting for me to do.
asciilifeform: there is no reason to wait!
asciilifeform: it isn't hard or anything.
asciilifeform: not like i didn't post example code here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25909 @ 0.00037212 = 9.6413 BTC [-]
funkenstein_: easier to use pastebin or mega methinks
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: nope.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: both are heavily censored, and entirely centralized
asciilifeform: sks is more like usenet
asciilifeform: write-only
asciilifeform: or rather, write-once
asciilifeform: i'm frankly surprised that it hasn't been spammed to cinders
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform enemy is not in it for aesthetic considerations
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aethetics are not entirely separable from utility here
asciilifeform: in a propaganda war
mircea_popescu: maybe, but this cockroach doesn't fly.
asciilifeform: but where are the other insects, which -do- fly ?
asciilifeform: why absent ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform judging by the alleged models they use, i'd be surprised too. except i don't believe even for a second the inept allegations of the shithead ycombinator parade.
asciilifeform: which allegations ?
asciilifeform has not been keeping up with the flea circus
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21751 @ 0.00037892 = 8.2419 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: that "this is just how sks servers work"
asciilifeform: not like the code is not public
asciilifeform: who wants - go, read.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00037677 = 4.427 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.0003771 = 12.0672 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: are you saying google is gonna buy sks servers and slowly fade them away?
mod6: Going back to this error from lastnight: net.cpp:1358:23: error: 'INT64_MIN' was not declared in this scope
decimation: mod6 is there an INT64_MIN in bitcoin? jurov's tool doesn't see it
mod6: here's what I discovered: ``#define __STDC_LIMIT_MACROS'' is in ``headers.h''. But if I add ``#define __STDC_LIMIT_MACROS'' with ``#include <stdint.h>'' directly after the #define in net.cpp, then it compiles fine. I found the same errors in util.cpp and wallet.cpp. Added those two lines fixes it in all places.
mod6: decimation: should be line 1359 int64 nBest = INT64_MIN; of (net.cpp)
mod6: im not sure what jurov's thing shows. i go by what's in the v0.5.3.1-RELEASE.tar.gz with hash: 5c41fe6cf286770a25bf61ab0c35747d0c760f8656754296d2e1d3c4274b5686
mod6: anyway, after I fixed those hiccups, then I ran into this when linking. any thoughts here? this is a gentoo with nearly nothing installed... : http://dpaste.com/0HQTB32.txt
decimation: INT64_MIN is defined in stdint.h on my redhat machine
decimation: adding #include <stdint.h> should be cool
decimation: the linker is saying it can't find your built libssl and libcrypto
mod6: yeah, i tried with just ``#include <stdint.h>'', no dice, same error. my /usr/include/stdint.h has: #if !defined __cplusplus || defined __STDC_LIMIT_MACROS ... # define INT64_MIN (-__INT64_C(9223372036854775807)-1)
mod6: <+decimation> the linker is saying it can't find your built libssl and libcrypto << hmm i guess i can understand libcrypto, but openssl was built with auto.sh... would have though it could ifnd it..
decimation: did it actually build?
mod6: ip-172-31-2-241 bitcoin-v0_5_3_1 # whereis libcrypto libcrypto: /usr/lib/libcrypto.so
mod6: ah, it's an .so... so maybe it's looking for a .a
decimation: you told it -Wl,-Bstatic
mod6: openssl? yeah, i believe it built just fine.
mod6: I have that whole part saved in a typescript. lemme check
decimation: is your target libcrypto and libssl in /usr/lib or in your built auto.sh targets?
decimation: like, libssl.a and libcrypto.a should be in /mnt/btc-dev/sandbox-20150609-v0531-gentoo-uclibc/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/ourlibs/lib
mod6: ip-172-31-2-241 sandbox-20150609-v0531-gentoo-uclibc # find /mnt/btc-dev/sandbox-20150609-v0531-gentoo-uclibc -name "*libssl*" \ /mnt/btc-dev/sandbox-20150609-v0531-gentoo-uclibc/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/openssl-1.0.1g/libssl.pc \ /mnt/btc-dev/sandbox-20150609-v0531-gentoo-uclibc/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/openssl-1.0.1g/libssl.a
decimation: yeah but that's not in ourlibs/lib
mod6: the typescript does say that it had some error installing the documents or something though, but other than that, looks ok.
decimation: yeah and when it failed to install documents it didn't move it to ourlibs/lib
decimation: which is where bitcoin's makefile wants it
decimation: you are probably missing that one tool
mod6: ah, thanks decimation. that's probably the other part of what nubbins` was saying before about not being copied correctly. i had to copy the headers by hand for it to compile...
decimation: I think I told you about the docs
mod6: ah, ok.
decimation: I remember looking into it
decimation: I think I solved it by turning off doc generation
mod6: ok copied libcrypto.a and libssl.a into ourlibs/lib
mod6: got passed that problem... but now have something else.
decimation: yeah it's that perl doc bullshit
decimation: it makes make install fail
decimation: it's a weak symbol, the unwind shit is related to debugging
decimation: I'm not sure what the issue is exactly, it's probably some complicated ulibc <-> gcc interaction
mod6: hmm. well, this didn't help either: recompile with -fPIC
mod6: maybe I have it in the wrong spot though.
mod6: gentoo has a page that mentions PIEs & PICs... maybe i can try without -fPIE and see what happens.
assbot: Hardened/Toolchain - Gentoo Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1KXvJYH )
mod6: didn't seem to help: http://dpaste.com/0FV0TC3.txt
mod6: hmm...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32484 @ 0.00036214 = 11.7638 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14266 @ 0.0003576 = 5.1015 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-06-2015#1160111 << i spoke of this a month or two ago. afaik - unsolved
assbot: Logged on 11-06-2015 02:07:08; mod6: yeah, i tried with just ``#include <stdint.h>'', no dice, same error. my /usr/include/stdint.h has: #if !defined __cplusplus || defined __STDC_LIMIT_MACROS ... # define INT64_MIN (-__INT64_C(9223372036854775807)-1)
asciilifeform: !s stdint
assbot: 8 results for 'stdint' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=stdint
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-06-2015#1160137 << you still have dns invocations in there
assbot: Logged on 11-06-2015 02:17:35; mod6: http://dpaste.com/2PJ42CQ.txt
mod6: oh you think that's causing this issue?
asciilifeform: mod6: two separate issues here!
mod6: well, i've got the stdint thing figured out for the time being. i've applied your patch "asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.patch" and "nubs-gentoo-sanity.patch".
asciilifeform: this worked ?
mod6: no, those where in there from the beginning. i ended up adding ``#define __STDC_LIMIT_MACROS'' with ``#include <stdint.h>'' to net.cpp, util.cpp and wallet.cpp and then is ok.
mod6: the other issue is the linking thing...
mod6: the linker is saying that an R_X86_64_PC32 relocation against an undefined symbol can't be used in a shared object... maybe your removal of the dns shit fixes this. not sure. will try adding that patch as well if this next thing doesn't work.
asciilifeform: what symbol ?
mod6: __GI___pthread_cleanup_upto
asciilifeform: ferphuxxsake
asciilifeform: what triggers this ?
mod6: did you look at this? http://dpaste.com/2PJ42CQ.txt
mod6: unless i'm just dumb, and it's related to "getnameinfo()", but i honestly didn't think it was reated.
mod6: *related
asciilifeform: methinks we got our first uclibc-ism here
decimation: no getnameifo isn't at fault
decimation: it's something to do with linking between ulibc, gcc, pthread
asciilifeform: try building a boost-y 'hello world' statically with uclibc
assbot: Create lightweight Docker containers with Buildroot | Docker Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1IHDSmF )
mod6: decimation: i saw that there. lol, there aren't many people who've encoutered this.
decimation: not this exact error, no
asciilifeform: the set of folks doing static builds today consists - approximately - of us.
asciilifeform: (and perhaps the linuxbios folks)
mircea_popescu: and some more isolated pockets, but yeah
asciilifeform: microcontroller folks, too
asciilifeform: but none of'em are stuck with cpp, much less 'boost'
decimation: heh yeah only crazies would consider writing cpp for embedded or static linking
decimation: mod6 what version of ulibc are you using
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3510 @ 0.00036274 = 1.2732 BTC [+]
decimation: http://www.uclibc.org/downloads/ChangeLog-0.9.31_0.9.32 < "Date: Fri May 27 17:08:36 2011 +0200 Fix build issue due to missing symbols in !NPTL case: - _longjmp_unwind"
asciilifeform: does uclibs even contain setjmp() routines ?
asciilifeform: *uclibc
asciilifeform looks, learns that it does. or claims to.
mod6: <+decimation> mod6 what version of ulibc are you using << lemme see what i can find.
mod6: 0.9.33.2 looks like: http://dpaste.com/21W7WXW.txt
assbot: Bug 1127 – segmentation fault error when the busybox execute ... ( http://bit.ly/1MqFdvI )
assbot: 32219 – optimizer causes wrong code in pic/hidden/weak symbol checking. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MqFheX )
decimation: lol it's a gcc bug reported in 2007, not fixed until 2015
decimation: mod6: what version of gcc are you using
mod6: gcc (Gentoo Hardened 4.8.4 p1.5, pie-0.6.1) 4.8.4
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53378 @ 0.00035927 = 19.1771 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: unless the fix was backported, you need gcc 5.1
decimation: if it's this gcc bug, it wasn't fixed until 13 feb 2015
mod6: hmm...
mod6: so this might not be a problem, but i was just looking at the environement to see if something is out of whack. it seems the /usr/bin/gcc isn't quite the same as the /usr/x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/gcc-bin/4.8.4/x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc-gcc : http://dpaste.com/19T1QMN.txt
mod6: Is this wrong?
mod6: they do have different hashes, etc.
decimation: I'm not sure, but I do know if that if the fix I found above isn't integrated it might not matter
mod6: yeah. it seems weird from that other link that uclibc should have a fix applied in branch 0.9.32, or did i misunderstand that.
mod6: so thinking that my 0.9.33.2 /should/ be okay...
mod6: <+decimation> https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue << is there any likelihood that this patch can be applied to 4.8.4? or is 5.x required?
decimation: I donno, I'm not a gcc expert
mod6: ok. np. the message didn't say. i guess i could try pulling the 4.8.4 source or whatever and see.
mod6: i would think i would need to build whatevre this is: x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc-gcc (Gentoo Hardened 4.8.4 p1.5, pie-0.6.1) 4.8.4 + the obscure patch in msg00410
mod6: makes me as jumpy as a longtalied cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
decimation: hehe me too
decimation: !up bekusoararu
mod6: mod6: Sir Grayhawk, I would like to use this recipe to craft a static apple pie. Sir Grayhawk: Let me traide you for this here Universe Schematic.
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