Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-05-20 | 2015-05-22 → ↓
decimation: asciilifeform: is this havel guy kinda like a czech Solzhenitsyn?
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why idiot rawls and his "veil of ignorance" is so important for the "nordic system" ie, socialism re-emergent. it's not the direct pseudo-ethics it derps around with that's the core there. it's the proposition, unwarranted and offensive, that people have no more substance than replaceable parts, and that their connections in the graph do not exist.
mircea_popescu: THIS is what that bullshit is selling, under a guise.
asciilifeform: archaeologists tell us about, e.g., ancient minoan 'palace economies' where -everybody- had to go to the central cloth dispensary to get woven cloth where gurlz toiled in the weaving hall. but those who sat in the palaces may have pictured themselves at the 'stellar apex' but had nothing on modern idiotron. minoans did not, afaik, have to go to the palace to get fucked.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform babylonians did, really.
mircea_popescu: hence all the prostitution cults.
trinque: only part I don't know about is whether this is a sort of inauthentic behavior on the part of the shopkeeper
trinque: seems obedience is a fine thing if the directions given to it are any good
mircea_popescu: trinque the socialist state is necessarily intellectually vacuous
mircea_popescu: for this reason it can never be any good
asciilifeform: trinque: not unlike the difference between car speeding along on a clean road, and engine on fire. in both cases, petrol combusts
mircea_popescu: (and it's necessarily vacuous for the reason discussed in "the problem of ideal systems")
decimation: yeah but as trinque pointed out earlier, the socialist state has the advantage of 'cheap coordination'
mircea_popescu: at the cost of necessary futility, yes.
decimation: it's really easy to sell the idea that the state will save you
mircea_popescu: "you can either buy this thing which works, or this thing which is free." "but does it work ?" "no."
mircea_popescu: the choice is then settled by... whether you can afford the first.
mircea_popescu: because if you can't, you ain't buying it. and if you ain't buying it, might as well take the 2nd.
decimation: ^ which is why fiat currency is so wrapped up in the socialist megastate
decimation: because it jams the markets with crazy nonsense
asciilifeform: i used to wonder whether the 'rawlsian ignorance' folks might -actually- believe in reincarnation. like hindu
asciilifeform: then realized that hindu, who believes in it, behaves very differently from 'rawlsians'
BingoBoingo: Facebook commenters, worse than tumblrinas
trinque: my thought was that the average person has always been this semi-mindless imitator, quite human to try to tend towards the middle, whatever that may be
trinque: a sort of swarming behavior
trinque: and that this historically would've been swarming around a command structure
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would say they believe in... descuamation.
mircea_popescu: specifically, actual life is too much of a burden, so they wish to be... well killed, basically.
asciilifeform: iirc orwell had one of these
asciilifeform: 'short of death, the ultimate relinquishment of responsibility'
mircea_popescu: see, the hindu psychological driver is coping with harsh environment. so that models the person one way.
asciilifeform: but specifically the 'you, yes you, -could- be a leprous beggar!' thing
asciilifeform: it only makes sense in a hindu-style cosmography
mircea_popescu: the western rapemeats' driver is on the contrary : look how much i should have achieved and how utterly i have failed at all of it.
mircea_popescu: depression incumbent then is resolved as a "yes but my REAL SELF has not come yet"
mircea_popescu: at which point the fantasy of magical body exchanges is, like the armchair generalship of you know, running mpex from the forum, a very natural escape.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47946 @ 0.00028011 = 13.4302 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: the fantasy, like magnet, has opposite pole of 'body exchange hell' as well as heaven
asciilifeform: where believer is invited to picture himself as blind from birth street urchin etc
mircea_popescu: but you see, the idea being, that if they had no body AT ALL... they wouldn't have failed.
trinque: asciilifeform: this seems to be the victim culture thing
mircea_popescu: next best thing to no body at all being, a vague body which "might have been"
asciilifeform: the adventures of the human wavefunction, aha
trinque: I had a few lols today investigating the #diecisscum and #killallwhitemen things today
trinque: s/today$//
decimation: nah, I think the western statism is simple Christianity without god - 'god is dead, it's up to us to build heaven on earth'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, i suspect a large number of the rapemeat, aka sjws, actually masturbate, at least mentally, to the idea of them being blind from birth street urchin sexually abused on a constant basis.
mircea_popescu: because IN THAT CONTEXT, they would be heroes
trinque: decimation: yup, this HR department morality thing is *so* protestant
mircea_popescu: worthy of their own pity.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: after christianity (and possibly mithraism before it) pushed this notion as far as the pedal would go, for 2k yrs, big surprise ?
mircea_popescu: no surprise at all
mircea_popescu: i think it's necessary. hegelhistory.
asciilifeform: sorta like forest fire is necessary.
mircea_popescu: forest fire is a necessary outcome of drought.
mircea_popescu: in a land which had biomass growth pedal to the floor.
decimation: in the western us, the most dangerous forest fires happen after lots of rain
trinque: and entirely absent any social structure beyond dysfunctional families
decimation: the verdant landscape suddenly dries and goes poof
mircea_popescu: decimation how does that work ?
mircea_popescu: oh, like a week after ?
decimation: well, dry spells immediately following wet spells
decimation: more like the next season
BingoBoingo: <trinque> I had a few lols today investigating the #diecisscum and #killallwhitemen things today << I dunno why trans would label their opposition cis- because when talking isomers... transgeometric isomers tend to be poisonous, or at least less supporting of continued life than cis isomers.
mircea_popescu: irony is wasted on the stupid.
BingoBoingo: I kinda figure normal ordinary responsible people should refocus the conversation on dext vs. levo rotary. dext (normal) rotary amphetamine feels good man. levo just induces stress reactions and nihilism.
BingoBoingo: Lafonde guy is pretty good for the current events http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2409&pr=0
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo personally, i find the aggitation of marginal women which i'd never fuck or empower anyway about how things should be very entertaining.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sjws, actually masturbate, at least mentally, to the idea of them being blind from birth street urchin... pet sayeth - summarized: 'more complicated than this. by and large, they diagnose themselves with imagined disabilities and enjoy wearing magic disability mantle.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ayup.
mircea_popescu: manifestation, imo.
mircea_popescu: why's that girl not in here anyway ? not like ben_vulpes' gonna steal her away with his magic tango skillz...
decimation: I guess she blew her wad on 2000 lines or whatever
asciilifeform: can't be arsed.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But the people pushing the trans/cis thing largely aren't women. They are some large women and some men who have modified their sex to a null state.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo whether they're women or not is not up to them. gender is something allocated to one. by, in this case, me.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> can't be arsed. << I can see why you get along.
asciilifeform: iirc kakobrekla has one of these also.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo whether they're women or not is not up to them. gender is something allocated to one. by, in this case, me. << I see this.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: From what I understand kakobrekla and lampelina sleep in shifts.
asciilifeform: gender is something allocated to one << sure. declare a lump of earth 'fork'
asciilifeform: has forkness assigned.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what else do you suppose ru prison pederasty is if not allocated womanhood
trinque wonders if there's such a thing as reproductive suicide, biologically speaking
decimation: 'time for yer turn in the barrel'
BingoBoingo: trinque: Menopause?
trinque: someone's too full of plastic or what have you, and suddenly they're transfluid-hyperqueer
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: though, to be fair, it is 'mined' rather than synthesized ab initio. mined by selecting folks with some inclination pre-existing
trinque: the psychology of some of these people just says "couldn't pull the trigger, didn't even have a gun"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know the thousand dollar whore joke ?
mircea_popescu: guy goes into mining town with a thousand dollars in gold.
mircea_popescu: straight to largest brothel. "i want a girl"
mircea_popescu: sure, be twenty, or an ounce.
BingoBoingo suspects asciilifeform told this one
mircea_popescu: no. i want a 1000 dollar girl.
mircea_popescu: sorry man...
mircea_popescu: he does this for a while, eventually a less scrupulous owner takes his thousand
mircea_popescu: girl in room "hello baby, where do you want to put it ? my ass ? my ..."
mircea_popescu: "shut up bitch. for a thousand dollars i make my own holes."
BingoBoingo: !s make my own holes
assbot: 1 results for 'make my own holes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=make+my+own+holes
assbot: Logged on 13-02-2014 23:14:48; mircea_popescu: "babe, for 10k i make my own holes"
trinque: I have no issue whatsoever with homosexuality... this thing though where what... the actual reproducing members of the species must die?
mircea_popescu: trinque it IS an in joke.
trinque: that's a very particular reckless suicidality
mircea_popescu: you're taking it literally.
trinque: lol, oh, I am missing nuance?
asciilifeform: trinque: are you familiar with j. b. calhoun's 'mouse utopia' ?
mircea_popescu: trinque you familiar with the concepts of jews and forced memes ?
mircea_popescu: lurkmoar :D
trinque: asciilifeform: and yes
trinque: "beautiful ones" and so on?
trinque: that's exactly what it seems like, some biological mechanism going off due to stress or who knows what
trinque: !s jews forced memes
assbot: 0 results for 'jews forced memes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jews+forced+memes
trinque: :'(
BingoBoingo: trinque: Homosexuality is a thing. A number of people do it with a strong irreplacable preferance and given the roster that includes turing it isn't a thing to demonize.
asciilifeform: 'Mice found themselves born into a world that was more crowded every day, and there were far more mice than meaningful social roles. With more and more peers to defend against, males found it difficult and stressful to defend their territory, so they abandoned the activity. Normal social discourse within the mouse community broke down, and with it the ability of mice to form social bonds. The failures and dropouts congregated
trinque: BingoBoingo: I'm not demonizing it at all, even waffled sufficiently to indicate this :D
asciilifeform: in large groups in the middle of the enclosure, their listless withdrawal occasionally interrupted by spasms and waves of pointless violence. The victims of these random attacks became attackers. Left on their own in nests subject to invasion, nursing females attacked their own young. Procreation slumped, infant abandonment and mortality soared. Lone females retreated to isolated nesting boxes on penthouse levels. Other males,
asciilifeform: a group Calhoun termed “the beautiful ones,” never sought sex and never fought—they just ate, slept, and groomed, wrapped in narcissistic introspection. Elsewhere, cannibalism, pansexualism, and violence became endemic. Mouse society had collapsed.'
trinque: but there's a specific blend of queer and self-destructive I've met enough times to know it's a thing
mircea_popescu: trinque the jew part i really can't explain. but a forced meme is what cancerous fags do when they try to create a meme. which is EXACTLY like what idiot kids do when they "create exchange", but exactly. ignorance so ignorant it doesn't grok why it's being ignorant but thinks itself clever.
BingoBoingo: Like anything else in the postmodern era... the fandom that attaches is...
mircea_popescu: now, the "kill men" bla bla is exactly this : a forced jew meme for that particular subculture.
trinque: ah yeah, that makes sense
mircea_popescu: trinque so your original interpretation is not unlike saying 4chan is antisemitic.
trinque: it's a fair point
mircea_popescu: it'ds not even wrong.
trinque: yours I mean
trinque: cazalla: ahahaha
BingoBoingo: Oh, looks like /btc/ fell of of 8ch
decimation: from my point of view the whole 'gay rights' thing looks to be about bossing around whitey who cowers in learned helplessness
trinque: it does, the in-group signaling thing makes a lot of sense too though, and furthermore that things you can only say in your in-group are the best signals
decimation: that at trying to immanentize the eschaton
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Still there, just not poplar enough
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123059 @ 0.00027471 = 33.8055 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: But not really Lombary Poplars suck. Grow too fast, insufficient trunk strength, gets blown over on the first strong wind. And if it doesn't blow over dies at 30 anyways because fuck you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131505 @ 0.00027468 = 36.1218 BTC [-] {3}
decimation: yeah poplars are shit wood
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is an excellent model for the reddit/tumblr/etc failure modes.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo poplars are the hitchiker whore of trees. cheap, available and ineffectual.
decimation: note that the failure mode with the mice isn't too little information - it's too much
mircea_popescu: " more mice than meaningful social roles. With more and more peers to defend against" << that's the hot core of failure.
asciilifeform: decimation: failure mode - as with most mechanisms under the sun - is from operation outside of envelope.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I dunno hitchiker whores can make it to 40 and become settled whores unless they roll a Ted Bundy
mircea_popescu: i guess there's that.
BingoBoingo: And poplars too have a purpose. If you are otherwise broke, have rain, and really want firewood for next winter...
decimation: !up AmbitionzAzARida
decimation: !up evian11_____
BingoBoingo: !up evian11_____
BingoBoingo: It's just... really hard to trust a tree that struggles to live twice as long as a dog
decimation: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/05/nicholas_vincen.html < "The myth, even as early as the 12th century, that the English are freeborn people--it's a load of nonsense; they come from Troy; they are the exiles from ancient Troy defeated by the Greeks: they go off and they found this kingdom of England from which they eventually get a king called Arthur. But they are a freedom-loving people. They live under liberty and freedom. Of
decimation: english 'liberty' as founded in the magna carta is just repeating asperations until they become true
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hard to trust a tree that struggles to live twice as long as a dog << brings up a point re: another tree. in ru, folks traditionally are fascinated with the huge birch forests. but consider, birch is a short-lived 'pioneer species'
asciilifeform: it lives where earth was disrupted, destroyed
asciilifeform: where - typically - pasture was left fallow
asciilifeform: on account of famine, war, plague
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There's a couple of older birch trees near here. Exceptional because... don't look much like the other birches.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as a boy, i took a 1200km train ride. nothing but birch.
BingoBoingo: My biggest annoyance at this phase of the summer's landscaping gigs is actually hickory. Lives forever, quality wood... but... The squirrels plant it. It lays low for a couple years and then zoom towards the heavens.
BingoBoingo: And because squirrels plant it before cats eat them for winter sustenance, squirrels plant them in the worst places
asciilifeform: as far as eye can see.
BingoBoingo: That is pretty beautiful. Probably will be for another decade or two
decimation: I'm a sucker for a large stately sycamore tree
BingoBoingo: decimation: sycamore is even choice wood for some applications. Also low on litter and grows big.
decimation: yeah, butcher blocks
BingoBoingo: Also countertops, just fuck it. Granite bleeds radon and marble stains. Just install block and sand, then replace in a decade.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10598 @ 0.00028144 = 2.9827 BTC [+]
asciilifeform wonders what old-fashioned headsman's chopping blocks were made of
BingoBoingo: Even birch is useful if you want to build a brownwater vessel
decimation: eh, for countertops use quartz
BingoBoingo: But poplar is only useful for filing insurance claims and watching your fuel wood burn too fast.
BingoBoingo: decimation: porous, loses to red wine
asciilifeform: wai wat
asciilifeform: quartz porous ?!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I thought they braced behind the chop
asciilifeform: no more porous than your house windows
asciilifeform: or light bulb
asciilifeform: even glass - stains
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If ideal quartz were marketed for this purpose no staining
asciilifeform: not perfectly smooth, aha. but not porous
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: braced behind the chop << old-school chopping blocks did not have 'chin rests' but were something like butcher blocks
decimation: I never heard of quartz staining
BingoBoingo: Oh, but countertop quartz, are you expecting a single piece? Most nao are chip and epoxy abominations unless you beat the greek (stone people are almost always greek) appropriately
decimation: yeah, it's got epoxy
decimation: also it takes no maintenace and looks nice
decimation: actually if you want functionality - stainless steel
decimation: easy to clean, antibacterial
BingoBoingo: ;;google chromium poisoning
gribble: Chromium Toxicity Clinical Assessment - History, Signs and Symptoms: <http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=10&po=11>; Chromium toxicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_toxicity>; chromium poisoning - chromium related illness - injured by chromium: <http://www.thompsons.law.co.uk/workplace-illnesses-and-diseases/chromium-related- (1 more message)
decimation: oh good lord
decimation: how much chromium you gonna pick up from a stainless pot?
BingoBoingo: However much is on the surface
BingoBoingo: Wear items are expendable
BingoBoingo: And engineering is an art of compromises
BingoBoingo: Oh, and reddit is downs agan
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69098 @ 0.00025648 = 17.7223 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up gavmatic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.00026387 = 13.4574 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026387 = 5.2774 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: troy ?! wtf.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think he prefers the salutation "panzer" when so hailed
mircea_popescu: panzer asciilifeform
BingoBoingo: So, as of a few hours ago this laptop is nao on its 4th cooling fan.
mircea_popescu: hot stuff
BingoBoingo: Seriously. Demanded fans every ~14-16 months on nigbuntu and nao wants to move to a 6 month schedule on OpenBSD
BingoBoingo: I blame Bitcoin
BingoBoingo: in a good way
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77800 @ 0.00026385 = 20.5275 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: quartz chips under the blade if not epoxied
BingoBoingo: It does. And if epoxied it not only chips, but tunnels. Too brittle
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel The more time I spend with nonegenarians the kinder dementia pugilistica sounds
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: alf is one of them
BingoBoingo: alf is more Russian than them prolly
BingoBoingo: Best I can guess alf is cold war relic Yeltsin was too drunk to deactivate and Putin found too cute to turn off
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167200 @ 0.00025706 = 42.9804 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: mike_c "легальные резиденты" my ratting comment @ the_scourge ? lol
BingoBoingo: So, "Guardians of the Galaxy" least unbelievable of the Disney/Marvel movies
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00025758 = 5.1516 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135920 @ 0.00025633 = 34.8404 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: Oh hell yeah
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Sometimes other senses fail first
gabriel_laddel: ^ see the first comment on the photo
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NOncx2jU0Q << Why they're trying to replicate the human hand/arm exactly idk
gabriel_laddel: one could do *much* better quite easily.
BingoBoingo: Eh, the rougher part is people with the grey and white matter in tact with the senses failing
gabriel_laddel: Hey if you want to die, I'm not here to stop you.
mircea_popescu: how goes gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: finished an (interactive) Architectural tour of Masamune.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: need to find a box to hack the install proc on
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you know someone in the SF Bay area who would throw me a computer, that would be tight.
gabriel_laddel: I'm putting off messaging a friend atm
gabriel_laddel: also, I'm broke, otherwise I'd just buy one.
mircea_popescu: can't say as i do...
mircea_popescu: but listen, if you're broke is thsi sort of grand architectural commitment the bestest policy ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I've been broke for like a year now
mircea_popescu: "i've had cancer for like a year now". good for you but eventually it'll kill ya.
gabriel_laddel: So... you remember the tide usd vs. usd usd discussion?
gabriel_laddel: I'll be fine
gabriel_laddel: The only reason I do what I do is.. for the money
mircea_popescu: masamoney ?
mircea_popescu: you wanna run me through that again ?
gabriel_laddel: which part.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: So I see you like CLIM
mircea_popescu: the money part.
mircea_popescu: im not going to go into how "Most ideas humans would like to
mircea_popescu: ;;; communicate using the computer are quite simple." is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise.
gribble: Error: ";" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00025758 = 7.7274 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot gabriel_laddel
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user gabriel_laddel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=gabriel_laddel | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/gabriel_laddel/
gabriel_laddel: I've been broke for like a year, working on that which interests me so that I can make large sums of money rather than the 70-100k/yr you get programming. Also, money is just a system for communicating ideas about value - if one has value it can be turned into money and vice versa.
gabriel_laddel: Masamune is going to make someone a lot of $
gabriel_laddel: ask trinque how much better CLIM is than anything else on Earth
mircea_popescu struggles to follow.
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: are you in like a public library in guatemala or something
gabriel_laddel: at home with an unpaid AT&T bill
gabriel_laddel: which is seriously fucking up my ability to speak atm
gabriel_laddel: they block various websites, but not all the time?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74050 @ 0.00025612 = 18.9657 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: I can get on duckduckgo, but not google, but can get on google+?
mircea_popescu: okay so... how;s this oging to pay your internets bill ?
mircea_popescu: america's top&trolls lol
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: it isn't
gabriel_laddel: I'm clearly valuable, other people take care of me.
mircea_popescu: as in, urmom ?
gabriel_laddel: just people I've met since moving to Cali
mircea_popescu: anyway. so how did you come up with the 20 figure ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: sorry, 20?
mircea_popescu: see, this is the golden rule of magic numbers : if you use one and then need context to indentify it, you've misused a magic number.
mircea_popescu: medium sized organizations (1-20 persons).
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: After ~20 people you lose the ability for everyone to know everyone else.
gabriel_laddel: you can't convince 30 people who don't know lisp to use it.
mircea_popescu: that's called dunbar's number and is ~100 not ~20
mircea_popescu: unless you're retarded
gabriel_laddel: well, a software development team has different dynamics
mircea_popescu: how have you established this ?
gabriel_laddel: working on a software development team
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 216250 @ 0.00025438 = 55.0097 BTC [-] {3}
gabriel_laddel: The 20 number isn't a hard limit by any means, and I suppose I should change it because I pulled it out of my arse.
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: "From this point forward it is assumed you have set aside some time to learn Masamune and need no justification for as to why any particular abstraction has been chosen." << so is this a cult then ?
gabriel_laddel: Nah, justification is available, I just don't want it cluttering the presentation.
mircea_popescu: that is a very different statement from the statement you're actually making.
gabriel_laddel: :/ I don't immediately see how that is, but OK.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Is the argentine legal system as derpy as the rest of the country?
mircea_popescu: no, it's much worse.
mircea_popescu: "HotSlut22" #P"/root/quicklisp/local-projects/masamune/images/hot-slut22-avatar.png"))) o.O
gabriel_laddel: I needed an avatar for an example WoT program and dipped into the xxx folder
mircea_popescu: github is so fucking retarded
gabriel_laddel: as is git
mircea_popescu: "Contributions in the last year". what the FUCK does this mean.
mircea_popescu: "i dunno man, i just like counting"
mircea_popescu: here's a count of the items i've been counting : 833
mircea_popescu: now divide it by 7 and make a graph!
gabriel_laddel: Graphs are the future yo
mircea_popescu: fake meaningless numbers processed as if they weren't. fucking fiat mindrot
gabriel_laddel: Data visualization will save the seas of failed "college students".... or so they hope.
mircea_popescu: this user has produced 77 productions and consumed 52 consumptions. 991 users approve.
mircea_popescu: politicomathsocioscience 101 for the new generation : let there be user A who has 43 positive meaningless ticks and 22 negative meaningless ticks ; and user B who has 12 PMT and 17 NMT. who would win in a fight between homer simpson and a himalayan sherpa ?
mircea_popescu: a : user B, because his PMT are cars, whereas user A's PMTs are empty cherio wrappers.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you've got some spare time on your hands, (Mc)CLIM is neato
mircea_popescu: im testing eulora atm.
mircea_popescu: "how many lcd screens do you get by adding seven oranges to a bucket of water ?" "8"
gabriel_laddel: I didn't know the eurola crafting system was so advanced
mircea_popescu: >1k items o.O
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198750 @ 0.00025541 = 50.7627 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> that's called dunbar's number and is ~100 not ~20 << See how Dunbar's number works is you can know 150 people, harass 1500 people, but only count on at most 15 to follow instructions
mircea_popescu: it gets complicated.
BingoBoingo: Indeed
BingoBoingo: White people had a big gunfight in Texas over the weekend without civilian casualties and now everyone derps about big bad biker gangs
BingoBoingo: Poplar discourse is stupid
gabriel_laddel: Isn't Texas in a standoff with the Federal gov. atm?
BingoBoingo: That actually might be over or ongoing.
BingoBoingo: Weekend's drama was apparently biker gang splinter group was being confronted by their sponsors and likely DEA agent ran over some dude's toes, then hemophilia
BingoBoingo: Just assuming DEA, because gunfight...
BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-04-2015#1097710 << If I take different 3 buckets of paint and mix them into a homogeneous color is the system more or less ordered?
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 20:39:18; mircea_popescu: africa is actually, at least from what i've observed, extremely ordered.
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-04-2015#1097619 << Thanks, that sentence was wrong. I was attempting to say was "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax short a full parser+printer". This is an extremely important point, addressed by Erik in his perl treatise:
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 19:58:13; ben_vulpes: "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax (detect false positives short a full parser)" << this strikes me as a special case of the "cannot simulate a universe without a universe" claim.
BingoBoingo: Depends on the strength of your microscope
Apocalyptic: ;;later tell asciilifeform re pgpdump it actually displays details of HPA's invalid subkey, but for some reason doesn't print the associated keyid even once so my grep missed it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00025541 = 1.0983 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097935 << I'm not envisioning a great new wave of lisp on UNIX. Most people, when they use software, never question foundational abstractions. I can hack lisp, but cannot hack the myriad "dodo languages" UNIX is written in (and retain my sanity). If people are going to be writing code it should be in
assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:36:29; asciilifeform: to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.
gabriel_laddel: CL. Additionally, I want people who have no prior knowledge of computing to develop taste. Gedankenexperiment: spend 10k USD, purchase stock PCs, preload with something somewhat sane (Actually complete Masamune/bitcoin-assets distro) and distribute to a class of kids "learning to program". IMHO they'll play around with it, do their work and then p
gabriel_laddel: romptly forget about it. Actual people don't forget the experience of using something interesting (see your own hypercard post). I want them to be absolutely fucking incensed when they encounter windows or the like. Also, I love being able to kill/yank text in the browser + Emacs + CLIM. Also, money.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: is that like when gabriel_laddel reads loper-os then screams about lisp at everyone? << After using CLIM, do you feel like screaming at people?
gabriel_laddel: 03:55:16 mircea_popescu: or for that matter, predict the next one, so you know where not to go o.O << Cincinnati
mircea_popescu: i still don't see the money part. this is art, at best.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I'd argue with you, but it'll be less labor intensive to just wait until you use it (or even a select codebase like CLIM)
gabriel_laddel: everything will "click"
gabriel_laddel: and you'll say something similar to trinque "I have lived in a river of shit my entire life"
gabriel_laddel: at least, this is my prediction
mircea_popescu: well, i don't code much, so it's unlikely to make much difference to me. but in any case, this is how a good joke goes, or a good book. good books don't make much money.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you had Eurola shipped in 1/2 the time this would matter to you, no?
mircea_popescu: notrly. the sticking point atm is the art and my game design, not the code.
mircea_popescu: i'd be pretty pissy if it was waiting on code.
mircea_popescu: but w/e, im a bad example. suppose for someone it matters, and it saves them 10 billion pula.
mircea_popescu: so they install it and run it, and that's that.
mircea_popescu: how do you capture a fraction of the 10 bn pula ?
gabriel_laddel: I took an early demo (long before I discovered CLIM) to large company X, demonstrated all the information I could collect, that I could write lessons integrated into the whole desktop environment. This company has the sneaking suspicion that people sort of dick around during the onboarding process and there is a huge variation in how long people ta
gabriel_laddel: ke to complete it. Via Masamune it is possible to find out what these people are doing, optimize confusing paths etc.
gabriel_laddel: I plan to write custom (source included) extensions for select parteners
gabriel_laddel: eventually, if possible sell a 3D 'CLIM'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54800 @ 0.00025366 = 13.9006 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so rhel basically
mircea_popescu: aka, art (in the "what is art" on trilema sense - work for the lord).
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: well... hopefully you have an artist's stomach
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: exactly
mircea_popescu: who knew computing will spawn its own minstrelsy
mircea_popescu: (historically this is the EXACT contribution of the artist to the world, your "I have lived in a river of shit my entire life" or as jourdain put it, "i had no idea i was talking in prose".)
gabriel_laddel: Mathematica makes money, people say the exact same things about their software "I have lived in a...", but their product is braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: mathematica only makes money because it's braindamaged imo
gabriel_laddel: do explain
mircea_popescu: not causation, but unbreakable correlation
mircea_popescu: ie, you can't have the things that make it make money without the causes of the braindamage
gabriel_laddel: Symbolics Inc. made quite a bit of money - their products were not braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: you might be misinformed.
mircea_popescu: they failed for purely sales reasons.
mircea_popescu: so no, they didn't make money
gabriel_laddel: The real question is - how much did they spend on real estate in CA?
mircea_popescu: ok, that also
gabriel_laddel: Again, I would happily pay 10k-20k for a computing environment that doesn't waste my time.
gabriel_laddel: it doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: i thought you had bills in arrears. how would you pay a 10k bill ?
gabriel_laddel: I've not always been broke
gabriel_laddel: I just happen to be atm
mircea_popescu: so you would have, rather than would ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92432 @ 0.00025366 = 23.4463 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: if sane computing existed I would (update and then) send out my resume
mircea_popescu: provided, of course, they let you work on it only
gabriel_laddel: not at all
gabriel_laddel: I'd happily work at pretty much anything to make money for a sane computer.
mircea_popescu: so imagine it exists and they don't let you work on it oh oh oh i see.
mircea_popescu: so imagine it exists and it costs the money you have + 1.
mircea_popescu: i think for the record most capitalists work on this concept
gabriel_laddel: ^ this is my impression
mircea_popescu: "the world sucks, and id pay any sum for one that didn't. well... suppose it exists and it costs what i have +1 ... best get to work then"
gabriel_laddel: That sentence is somewhat confusing.
mircea_popescu: which part ?
gabriel_laddel: "that didn't. well... suppose it exists and costs what I have +1"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91145 @ 0.00024411 = 22.2494 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: My position is simply that I can be broke and work on what I want to work on without being terribly inconvenienced
mircea_popescu: 1. world sucks ; 2. capitalist would pay any sum for a world that doesn't suck ; 3. sadly that world doesn't exist ; 4. but the capitalist simply presumes it exists, and it's for sale for the money he has + 1
mircea_popescu: so 5. he goes to work, makes more money. this of course scales up the price.
mircea_popescu: so he spends his life chasing the world that doesn't suck, a dollar at a time.
gabriel_laddel: Hmm.. I think 4 should be "the capitalist simply presumes it *will* exist"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95100 @ 0.00025541 = 24.2895 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: If it doesn't exist, and other people want it - go make and sell it.
mircea_popescu: he;s a capitalist not a metaphysicist.
mircea_popescu: in any case, this approach illuminates the fundamentally pessimistic outlook of the socialist.
mircea_popescu: (which is why "does" not "will" - the bourgeois has no adherence to metaphysics.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103450 @ 0.00025714 = 26.6011 BTC [+] {2}
gabriel_laddel: "he;s a capitalist not a metaphysicist. " << I don't understand how this follows
gabriel_laddel: This model is bizzare. So if I'm a capitalist I should make money to purchase that which does not exist?
gabriel_laddel: admittedly, you can hire people
gabriel_laddel: but in this particular situation, who?
gabriel_laddel: I'd end up having to type for them, and at that point, wtf I'll just do it myself
gabriel_laddel: Though I'll note the "chasing a better world a dollar at a time" makes a great deal of sense, unless one lives in the peculiar bezzle-buck nightmare we currently inhabit.
gabriel_laddel: story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. I got another place, found trilema+#bitcoin-assets and... got evicted again.
gabriel_laddel: alright, goodnight.
assbot: [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 15000 @ 0.000207 = 3.105 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 18000 @ 0.00009 = 1.62 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: if you're a capitalist everything exists
mircea_popescu thinks gabriel and janna would make a perfect couple.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138350 @ 0.00025037 = 34.6387 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67765 @ 0.00025758 = 17.4549 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28350 @ 0.00025744 = 7.2984 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: im not going to go into how "Most ideas humans would like to communicate using the computer are quite simple." is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise. << I didn't see this prior to our conversation, courtesy of not paying my bills. This is actually the crux of it, so let's revisit. You've publicly stated something to th
gabriel_laddel: e effect of "linux devs are idiots and I'd like a judiciously defaulted gentoo please". The question is, at what point does this become something that you (or others ben_vulpes, mod6, asciilifeform etc have already wasted time derping with gentoo) would pay for? People pay for (what they see as) quality software - sublime text makes money, as does
gabriel_laddel: Intellij. The problem with these (ALGOL based) businesses is that their organizations ossify because of the sheer number of people that must get involved in any sort of "automation of programming". This is inescapable if you choose to use ALGOL. I realize that this isn't a result you believe exists, but reality doesn't care. Aside from software dev
gabriel_laddel: s, industrial chemists, architects, research physicists etc would like to have a plug-and-play solution for going about their work. There is money to be made here. Afaik the only way to get there is: 1. revert to paper 2. teach *everyone* what an AST is, choose a language, add AST traversal mechanisms and write *everything* in it (this will continu
gabriel_laddel: ally burn some of Earth's brighter minds, someone needs to think about the gnarly parser semantics when the language's syntax is updated - my experience is that you can't pay people to care) 3. use lisp. People have already tried 1 & 2, and the result is inevitably that even if they make money (Mathematica, Microsoft, Oracle...) the foundations of
gabriel_laddel: shit catch up with them and we end up where we are today - nothing works and everyone insists that it does because they've bought into a lie. As for "is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise", thank you, will update.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you're a capitalist everything exists << this makes no sense to me.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu thinks gabriel and janna would make a perfect couple. << I'm almost insulted.
mircea_popescu: lol but why ? she wouldn't let you get evicted.
mircea_popescu: the problem with your theory is exactly that : it's a theory. life on earth is emergent pattern in chaos, not sensible arrangement.
chetty: or chaos emerging from a pattern
mircea_popescu: now, the reason the quote is factually incorrect is pure godel. what you imagine as "simple" is only simple because you're using an unsimple language. otherwise, if you face the problem directly, it's very complex.
mircea_popescu: moreover, and this is the important part, it's a poor premise because only idiots start their stuff with "most people"
mircea_popescu: forget most people. you've not even made something and are already blunting it ? make it be good first, most people after.
chetty: no such thing as 'most people'
mircea_popescu: and as to "if you're a capitalist everything exists" - it's a subtle point, but in order for one to be a capitalist, the requisite premise is "that which is is and necesarily is, and that which is not is not and necessarily is not", ie, parmenides.
mircea_popescu: so no, for a capitalist it is eminently impossible for something to not be and then come into being.
mircea_popescu: only discoveries. no inventions.
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: lol but why ? she wouldn't let you get evicted. << I think she'd actually evict me, then decry that there were homeless programmers.
gabriel_laddel: I'm not a socialist in anycase, I support my own being evicted.
gabriel_laddel: I just happen to enjoy reading.
mircea_popescu: you know womenz can be fiercely loyal in spite of their better knowledge.
mircea_popescu: generally, it doesn't work out for them
gabriel_laddel: Heh, women tend to not be loyal to me.
mircea_popescu: now why would that be
gabriel_laddel: my experience suggests that one must fuck them for this to be the case.
gabriel_laddel: only discoveries. no inventions. << Okay, this makes sense - but someone must discover.
mircea_popescu: yeah. children.
mircea_popescu: the historical utility of children for human society is that they are more than happy to stick random things in their mouth.
gabriel_laddel: !s is a child
assbot: 62 results for 'is a child' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=is+a+child
mircea_popescu: they were used as exploration drones, basically. see what fruit is poisonous etc.
gabriel_laddel: This is basically my current utility afaik
mircea_popescu: apparently.
gabriel_laddel: !up CheckDavid
gabriel_laddel: !up CheckDavid
gabriel_laddel: !up Adlai
gabriel_laddel: !up Guest14108
gabriel_laddel: !up shesek
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155300 @ 0.00025415 = 39.4695 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @ 0.00025805 = 22.1794 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 212200 @ 0.00024976 = 52.9991 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu got it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141568 << that thing is copy-pasted all over ru spamosphere, with scarcely any variation, and no mention whatsoever of the updates.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 06:59:12; mircea_popescu: http://netsledov.ru/issledovateli-bezopasnosti-vzlomali-4096-bitnye-rsa-kluchi/ moar ru. apparently they really like alf.
asciilifeform: and speaking of which, the paulgrahamian blackout against the story is nearly total.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00024961 = 26.2715 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: entirely absent from the peanut gallery, and voted down into oblivion in the particular spots where i personally tried to insert it.
asciilifeform: (the update, that is)
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 10:04:19; gabriel_laddel: story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. I got another place, found trilema+#bitcoin-assets and... got evicted again.
asciilifeform wonders how many he led into perdition
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:39:50; gabriel_laddel: Symbolics Inc. made quite a bit of money - their products were not braindamaged.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141745 << smbx spent a fortune on r&d. they tried to amortize this cost any way they could, but nothing worked - other than peddling golden toilets to usg and subsidiaries. when political fortunes changes - it was over.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:40:23; mircea_popescu: so no, they didn't make money
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. of course. when caught lying... freeze.
asciilifeform: so yes, they made neat things, no, they didn't figure out how to pay for it. and no one was ever able to repeat because this has not changed - no one today can afford the necessary degree of non-retardation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it works for them, no ?
asciilifeform: the buggers are, likely, very busy atm - preparing their 'we did it before'
mircea_popescu: it didn't work for karpeles, it didn't work for lawsky, it ain't gonna work for graham, or for anyone else.
mircea_popescu: it only works when "everyone". there's no everyone.
asciilifeform looks forward to the demolition of graham et al
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141750 << him and six other folks. others just want to play 'solitaire' apparently.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:42:27; gabriel_laddel: Again, I would happily pay 10k-20k for a computing environment that doesn't waste my time.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel: i must confess that i personally would not pay -anything- for a unix of any description whatsoever.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141772 << the interesting thing is the blindness of this stereotypical character to items which -could- exist but cannot be brought into existence through traditional methods - planning, hiring, management. ergo items which could exist if you gave $raggedlispdervish a bathtub of benjies no-strings, do not and cannot exist because this is rather like asking $capitalist to stick hi
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:47:10; mircea_popescu: 1. world sucks ; 2. capitalist would pay any sum for a world that doesn't suck ; 3. sadly that world doesn't exist ; 4. but the capitalist simply presumes it exists, and it's for sale for the money he has + 1
asciilifeform: s cock in dulap.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do i recall correctly that at some point they squandered a mn or so on some dumbass real estate deal ?
mircea_popescu: symbolics that is
asciilifeform: they did!
mircea_popescu: engineers suck at management is the long and the short of it.
asciilifeform: and often blamed for killing'em. but this is not entirely unlike a boozer blaming a particular bottle of rotgut 20 yrs ago for his death.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my argument is that if smbx had -not- sucked at management, we would not be talking about their products today.
asciilifeform: they would've sold unix boxes.
asciilifeform: like sun et al
mircea_popescu: eh, alt-history. who knows.
mircea_popescu: im not familiar enough with the text & its context to call it
asciilifeform: sorta like the only other outfit of that period, thinking machines corp.
asciilifeform: -also- sold unique machine (you needed a smbx lispmach to run it, in fact, as front-end) but -also- comically mismanaged and squandered most of its dough on french chefs, etc.
asciilifeform: i do not believe the correlation to be pure accident here
mircea_popescu: i am more familiar with games market 20 years later by a long shot.
mircea_popescu: this scenario played itself there numerous times : people with great ideas sucked at business.
mircea_popescu: however, because > 100 tries, rather than the 3-4 you see in os market,
mircea_popescu: there WERE cases which'd have been the "Competent symbolics that didn't do unix"
mircea_popescu: like... maybe 3.
asciilifeform: i'm not certain this is an accident. folks who are good at business, know better than to try selling lisp to mass market
mircea_popescu: you understand good games are a lot more elitist than good os right ?
asciilifeform: possibly
mircea_popescu: because os has at least theoretically utility.
asciilifeform: but game is also much cheaper on the expenditure side of things
mircea_popescu: nobody plays a game because "i hate it but whatever, it works"
mircea_popescu: yes, it is, which is how we got 100 tries rather than 3.
asciilifeform: 'farmville' ?
mircea_popescu: however, that doesn't matter - how cheap it is in absolute terms. whether you have 100 outfits each owing 1mn or 5 outfits each owing 20mn
asciilifeform: (hated but played. or those ipad casinos from last night's thread)
mircea_popescu: i would say this is not hate but pretend-hate.
mircea_popescu: like feminists "hating" men
asciilifeform can see how this might be
asciilifeform: incidentally, symbolics was not managed by engineers. it was managed by business expert types who were mislead by engineers into believing that the cost of the research could be amortized via 'honest work.' the lisp machine vendor which -was- managed by engineers into a very early grave, was lmi corp.
asciilifeform: (yes, the one in rms's tales)
mircea_popescu: so it ... WAS managed by engineers.
mircea_popescu: engineer-bitch topping from the bottom still counts.
asciilifeform: i suppose it does!
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the fascinating case of fred quimby ?
asciilifeform: not afaik
mircea_popescu: ok, this will be enlightening.
mircea_popescu: you ARE deeply, intimately touched by his work
mircea_popescu: because fred quimby is the man that made cartoons be a meme. tom and jerry, loony tunes, all of it.
mircea_popescu: cartoons exist in your mental universe because fred quimby lived at some point.
mircea_popescu: now this man... he was a sales manager. hired away iirc from walmart, or some such, to run an animation studio.
mircea_popescu: which he ran exactly like a fish market. opressing the ever-so-creative creative ppls, and famously lacking any sort of a sense of humour
mircea_popescu: or even any interest in the subject of his profession.
mircea_popescu: then, after decades, and NINE oscars, ie, his weight in fucking gold, he retired.
mircea_popescu: the studio was taken over by the jenius creative minds in questions. you probably also know their names, because they are intricately connected to the absolute worst shit animation ever saw.
asciilifeform: possibly on account of not being a deep scholar of this subject, i dare to guess that it was a 'balance of power' thing.
mircea_popescu: the jetsons. scooby doo. take your pick
mircea_popescu: wacky fucking races.
mircea_popescu: if there was ever a bad cartoon, hanna & barbera made it.
mircea_popescu: and then went bankrupt.
mircea_popescu: and never got an oscar ever again.
asciilifeform: the artists had enough pull to avoid being steamrollered by fishmonger. fishmonger had sufficient balls to avoid being steamrollered by artists.
mircea_popescu: western animation would languish until someone signed mr spiel to do 100`000 movies a year.
mircea_popescu: possibru.
asciilifeform: this existed elsewhere - various u.s. chemical and misc. r&d corps of the '40-60s come to mind
asciilifeform: 'consider this excellent snake oil to replace tired old rsa' aha.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the amusing tactical implication here is that well... they actually would have loved to say rsa is bad.
asciilifeform: naturally.
mircea_popescu: it's like... that's where the entire "mp is a troll" thing came from.
asciilifeform: hence the immediate angle of 'omg1111!!!111!11 rsa broke'
mircea_popescu: shit fucking hurt, "you seriously mean he makes us choose between this and that ?!?!"
mircea_popescu: i must admit i had a lot of fun with it.
asciilifeform: http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/689 << what they actually did. think 'deedbot' but since bitcoin never existed on their planet, they demand crippled computers with super seekrit drm cpu.
asciilifeform: on planet usg, it is always 1992
asciilifeform: sorta like poor old schmuck with dementia is always whatever his age of last controlled bowel movement, mentally
asciilifeform: (or imagines)
mircea_popescu: too bad so sad etc
asciilifeform: 'Like Bitcoin, Black Lantern uses an open-ledger system in which derived hash-value trees are maintained by Guardtime in order to monitor for changes. In the case of Bitcoin the values represent transactions; in the case of Guardtime, it’s the hashed signatures of the assets being tracked.' << tr0l0l0l
mircea_popescu: BLACK LANTERN dude!!1
mircea_popescu: like a black hawk crashed into green lantern.
mircea_popescu: fucktards, these people.
asciilifeform: well-funded fucktards.
mircea_popescu: yeah. the sorta-fat, cowardly, euglena-scented kid everyone beat the shit out of in school.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49600 @ 0.00024961 = 12.3807 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: euglena? the microbe ?
mircea_popescu: protist, yeah
mircea_popescu: ;;google "cu miros de euglene"
gribble: MO-Piftel Cenzurat de Darius Iurca - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43tDr9XndEE>; Galben de metil - Wikipedia: <http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galben_de_metil>; Murray Rothbard - Wikipedia: <http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard>
mircea_popescu: romanian is expressive what can i tell ya.
davout: ;;ticker --market buttfinex
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 235.38, Best ask: 235.43, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 235.46, 24 hour volume: 12953.63746798, 24 hour low: 233.2, 24 hour high: 236.5, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expect a great many of these 'will unseat rsa' idiocies.
mircea_popescu: well now that it's broken...
asciilifeform sorta surprised they didn't push the 'broken' narrative further
mircea_popescu: what, and crown us ?
mircea_popescu: nah, it's gotta be 2nd pass, with the usual vague baked in
mircea_popescu: "recent advances" bla bla
asciilifeform: ... and peddle some 'lantern' replacement idiocy, why wouldn't they
mircea_popescu: the other half is pushing for simply outlawing it, so.
mircea_popescu: as you say, balance
asciilifeform: the 'soft power' weasels tend to eat the 'hard power' shoot'em-all types.
asciilifeform: just as the 'make plebes stupid & pliant' folks ate the 'pinkerton' pour la canaille - la mitraille types.
asciilifeform: (see limonov for mega-exploration of this)
asciilifeform: not much balance, really. eventually everything softens into the soft fecal matter (tm) of 'soft power'
asciilifeform: hence how the '90s 'crypto wars' ended with 'crypto is usg-legal but you can't buy an actual computer' thing
mircea_popescu: the idea is to avoid splashing
asciilifeform: splashing?
mircea_popescu: yes. as the us turns into shit, the balancing act consists in avoiding splashing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141700 @ 0.00026009 = 36.8548 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform is marvelling at the totality and cleanliness of the blackout. virtually no traces of The List anywhere.
asciilifeform: anywhere public, that is
asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/grenzenlosnaiv << possible candidate, german, 'pirate party'
wyrdmantis: Goodmorning/goodnight
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34300 @ 0.00026302 = 9.0216 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: wyrdmantis: disingenuous headline. bureaucrats do this faux switcheroo all the fucking time.
wyrdmantis: ;bc,stats
asciilifeform: but they are only ever on one 'side.'
wyrdmantis: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 357427 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 1420 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 14 hours, 32 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48731864673.8 | Estimated Percent Change: -0.15494
wyrdmantis: so is neither bad nor good news?
asciilifeform: wyrdmantis: about as interesting as a burglar getting out of jail to work at an alarm company
asciilifeform: (which he will eventually rob)
wyrdmantis: asciilifeform: i see, it's hilarious
asciilifeform: the inevitable question which comes to mind is - why should we give a damn about this particular burglar? what world records of theft, or even of daring, did he break?
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, he's just another larcenous piece of shit
bitstein: asciilifeform: good points. I posted it mostly as a reaction to the knee-jerk reddit response getting all butthurt that he would do such a thing. Of course, indifference may be the best response.
asciilifeform: bitstein: the best reaction to bureaucrats is the centuries-old formula popularized by solzhenitsyn - 'не верь не бойся не проси' ('don't believe'em, don't fear'em, don't ask [anything] of them'
bitstein: That's great.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 448400 @ 0.00026496 = 118.8081 BTC [+] {5}
asciilifeform: chetty: gestapo could have entered a picture of mickey mouse as a defense. and will win
asciilifeform: chetty: because their having to even file a defense is a mere formality. what, you imagine that court will say 'gestapo can no longer throw grenade before entering suspect house' ?
asciilifeform: picture if the judge were to find for the plaintiff
chetty: indeed
asciilifeform: quite likely the response would be something like andrew jackson's 'marshall has made his verdict, now let him enforce it.'
asciilifeform: (worcester v georgia)
asciilifeform: 'entering a room is always done in pairs. first mr. grenade, then - you.' (ru, apocryphal)
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> as far as i can tell, he's just another larcenous piece of shit << well, he's one of the first crop of derpy bureaucrats who thought they;'re gonna leverage the fiat state into a position of bitcoin power in a hostile manner.
mircea_popescu: he was defeated. no big whoop, for anyone except them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123100 @ 0.00026797 = 32.9871 BTC [+] {2}
williamdunne: chetty: Is that satire?
chetty: well I recall the incident about the kid getting hurt a while back, not so sure about the court case
williamdunne: Sure no I know about the baby I just meant their response
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77000 @ 0.00026812 = 20.6452 BTC [+] {2}
chetty: well I guess one would have to go read the actual court documents to be sure
mircea_popescu: !up tcrypt
mircea_popescu: trinque check it out, deedbot joined the evil side ?
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 291 @ 0.00476312 = 1.3861 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: eh by now the us police's got to this point where a) they're dumb enough to crash into each other and b) when it happens they'll write the wind a ticket for reckless endangerment.
chetty: asciilifeform, well that is certainly proof we have passed thru the looking glass, if anyone needed proof
asciilifeform: chetty: vestigial things, no longer having a logical reason to exist, tend to get trimmed down and eventually disappear. like cavalry sabres. in this case - the pretense of 'law'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a) they're dumb enough to crash into each other << recall last year's shootout featuring solely police ?
asciilifeform: (iirc on two opposite sides of an obstacle, parked cars)
mircea_popescu: my dementia progresses unabated
asciilifeform searches logs in vain
lobbes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-05-2015#1133388 << lmao. Idk why this cracks me up so much
assbot: Logged on 15-05-2015 23:16:59; BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu qntra banner http://i.imgur.com/8mYHVc0.png
davout: News, views, & RABBITZ
mircea_popescu: "Autobiography is only to be trusted when it reveals something disgraceful. A man who gives a good account of himself is probably lying, since any life when viewed from the inside is simply a series of defeats. However, even the most flagrantly dishonest book (Frank Harris's autobiographical writings are an example) can without intending it give a true picture of its author. Dali's recently published LIFE comes under t
mircea_popescu: his heading. Some of the incidents in it are flatly incredible, others have been rearranged and romanticised, and not merely the humiliation but the persistent ORDINARINESS of everyday life has been cut out. Dali is even by his own diagnosis narcissistic, and his autobiography is simply a strip-tease act conducted in pink limelight. But as a record of fantasy, of the perversion of instinct that has been made possible b
mircea_popescu: y the machine age, it has great value."
mircea_popescu: one wonders what orwell would have thought of twitter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 347506 @ 0.00026531 = 92.1968 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2841 @ 0.00044706 = 1.2701 BTC [+] {5}
davout: fluffypony: i'm in ur meetup, stealing mozilla's wifi
davout: first speech is quite derpy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110500 @ 0.00026218 = 28.9709 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up somethingsomethi
somethingsomethi: thanks daniel
danielpbarron: you are darksoul from gfy?
somethingsomethi: whos darksoul
danielpbarron: someone who shares your IP, -
somethingsomethi: clicked a link
somethingsomethi: thats probably why
danielpbarron: what's up, you like bitcoin or what?
somethingsomethi: interested
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101000 @ 0.00025466 = 25.7207 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115450 @ 0.00024885 = 28.7297 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14250 @ 0.00024857 = 3.5421 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134800 @ 0.00026546 = 35.784 BTC [+] {4}
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu msg ack'd. mega-l0l!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: gabriel_laddel | story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. << don't ever do this; if you can't make money doing it, you're not the guy to do it.
trinque: "I can get us to Mars! It will only take more than any of us have."
trinque: if you're taking us to the damned promised land, better be able to complete the journey
trinque: you may at best go work for the guy who can
trinque: after he beats the word "waste" into your skull
ascii_field: trinque: i dare say that -no one- can make money doing -this-
trinque: I don't believe that.
trinque: or on the other hand, if the only route to mars is starvation, maybe we've got no business aiming for mars just yet
jurov: how doest that compare?
trinque: ascii_field: my observation working for a few brilliant guys is that the unwillingness to break the grand vision into chewable pieces results in failure
jurov: can one go to mars by carefully cultivating their mind?
trinque: jurov: I am saying that if you think your problem is above economics, you're wrong.
trinque: that said things like cardano look like chewable pieces to me
jurov: go tell that to any of the geniuses who pursue clarity at the cost of starving
jurov: that they are wrong!!!
trinque: what does their clarity get me?
trinque: how does this relate?
trinque: its as if someone's laying bricks one by one, and the guy with the vision for the road says "NO, YOU MUST LAY THEM ALL AT ONCE!"
trinque: example, our "end user programming environment" (bastard son of spreadsheet) would've made a fine for-profit database editor
trinque: every other product in its space is garbage
trinque: but the guy was dead set on building this whole relational coding environment for... I don't know, your grandmother, anyone, "the people"!
trinque: actually better example than one road, a highway system
trinque: connecting two cities is useful even if the whole system isn't done.
jurov: if noone can snatch it from him repackage and sell, it§s your fault
trinque: heh, CLIM!
jurov: have you read the log about quimby/hannah&barbera?
jurov: exactly the same case
trinque: I'll take a look
trinque: and then whatever convo this brought about
jurov: and it was rehashed literally tonight
trinque: gabriel_laddel | I'm clearly valuable, other people take care of me. << this fucking kid
trinque: these types if they can be managed at all have to be under the command of someone who doesn't give a shit about software as art
ascii_field: it isn't about 'art.'
trinque: assbot: near as I can tell this masamune is going to make gabriel_laddel rich because it "has" value
trinque: guy's never sold a thing in his life
trinque: !up ascii_field
trinque: and also he "has value" because people are feeding him for free?
ascii_field: trinque: laugh if you like, but my issue with gabriel_laddel is precisely that he is willing to compromise -too much- rather than not enough.
trinque: absent this are the economic considerations
trinque: so if there's no path from here to there, it's not a thing
ascii_field: the path is me with 20 years of living expenses paid. or one of possibly 3 other fellas
trinque: considering it as solely an engineering endeavor, you're probably right
trinque: that's a couple million bezzlars tops
trinque: not nearly the umpteen trillion I've heard before
ascii_field: trinque: no, it's approximately this sum in -actual money-
ascii_field: which is a very different matter.
ascii_field: (though whole debate is about whether we ought to fly to alpha centauri or proxima centauri. neither is on the table)
trinque: ascii_field: in your mind is cardano not this kind of pragmatic first step towards future hardware production?
trinque: because considering that I don't see how we disagree
ascii_field: trinque: not related
trinque: just sounds like you're not thinking like a business about that
ascii_field: cardano is made of off-the-shelf parts.
trinque: I'm not talking about the hardware
trinque: er I mean, the engineering of it
trinque: but rather the logistics and cash-flow required to take on the other things
ascii_field: trinque: well, it is also deadly-practical, like a luger
ascii_field: nothing 'blue sky' about it.
trinque: sure, and I hope you charge me a good amount of margin atop cost to own one
trinque: and perhaps other deadly practical things
trinque: being able to control hardware via gpg-o-gram remotely, suuuuper appealing
ascii_field: point is, hard to compare it with project that requires quite possibly more than one lifetime's worth of ab initio research
ascii_field: speaking of,
ascii_field: rng crate, i'm told, has shipped out.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43722 @ 0.00024764 = 10.8273 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: nice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173361 @ 0.00024694 = 42.8098 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108542 @ 0.0002471 = 26.8207 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150397 @ 0.00025136 = 37.8038 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13220 @ 0.0002637 = 3.4861 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122100 @ 0.00025735 = 31.4224 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89444 @ 0.00026277 = 23.5032 BTC [+]
trinque: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/36ru89/just_days_left_to_kill_mass_surveillance_under/crgjx6s << check out this motherfucker recommending people smartphone apps to protect their sekurity
jurov: it's himself?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: let him sign it
ascii_field: otherwise it's hitler talkin'.
ascii_field: (leaving aside the question of whether mr s speaks for hitler)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111500 @ 0.00026948 = 30.047 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: who knows, but snowden TM says call your senator and install appz
ascii_field: or reddit says.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142132 << they could've simply poisoned him then
ascii_field: (or what, usg hasn't graduated from hogwarts yet and doesn't do poison?)
jurov: "shot and bury at sea" instead
trinque: the whole thing is spectacle
trinque: http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/gyrocopter-pilot-indicted-on-six-counts/ << two felony counts -- one count of "operating as an airman without an airman's certificate" and another count of "violating registration requirements involving aircraft,"
trinque: notably the felonies lack anything about super-top-govt airspace, those were the misdemeanors
trinque: the felonies are simply... we are defining your remote controlled toy as an aircraft
trinque: oh shit, nevermind, it was carrying *him*
trinque: so his felony is being a goddamn badass that built his own gyrocopter?
trinque: they're terrified of capable people
trinque: ascii_field: incredible, I'll read it
ascii_field: http://www.usua.org/Rules/ruleandregs.htm << if his machine was under the weight limit - no license needed ?
ascii_field: (doesn't get him out of the trespassing charge, but 'flying without license')
trinque: does look like an ultralight, doesn't it?
trinque: the thing's a chair and propeller
ascii_field: 'In the room waited Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi, who had stopped by for a photo op and was posing a challenge for officers discussing safe ways to get the prime minister out of the building if necessary.' << oh noez, poor muppet might lose a string or two
williamdunne: !rated davout
assbot: You rated user davout on 27-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: paymium.
williamdunne: !rated fluffypony
assbot: You rated user fluffypony on 20-Apr-2015, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Points out stupidity, and promotes what matters while maintaining his humanity.
ascii_field: incidentally, rust's flight caused the sacking of pretty much the whole of soviet air force brass.
williamdunne: !rate davout 3 paymium, met IRL
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3ff1e6491614d87e
ascii_field: who, if anyone, will usg sack ?
ascii_field: betcha - no one.
williamdunne: !v assbot:williamdunne.rate.davout.3:c906cea9df253411b904bef8d1ed9d67b4e4e03bed7e9bcd0ecbbcc71ec21ab5
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for davout from 1 to 3 with note: paymium, met IRL
williamdunne: !rate fluffypony 5 Met IRL, OpenRigs, Monero, etc
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/516bc5950c6d97d0
williamdunne: !v assbot:williamdunne.rate.fluffypony.5:1f6d4e5752dae5fb67b0f36c9a8602478011f173e8805d71ad11c9cb70326a17
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for fluffypony from 3 to 5 with note: Met IRL, OpenRigs, Monero, etc
williamdunne: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143286 @ 0.00027208 = 38.9853 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108190 @ 0.00027363 = 29.604 BTC [+] {2}
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: 'Because the PGP Global Directory allows users to manage lost keys, it cannot use cryptographic mechanisms for verification. Instead, like mailing list servers and other public Internet services, the PGP Global Directory verifies a key by requiring a response to a verification email sent to each email address specified on the key.'
ascii_field: ahahahahahahaha.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 183601 @ 0.00025953 = 47.65 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
trinque: holy shit that's rich
ascii_field: 'The PGP Global Directory is not a replacement for the PGP Web of Trust, but an additional mechanism to provide a global foundation for the PGP Web of Trust that enables opportunistic secure communications.'
ascii_field: tr0l0l0l!
ascii_field found this by looking at The List, of course
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70000 @ 0.00027177 = 19.0239 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24806 @ 0.00027177 = 6.7415 BTC [+]
trinque: !up Hasimir
trinque: Hasimir: register a key and I'll give you a 1 to self-voice in the future
Hasimir: cool, thanks
Hasimir: though I thought it had my key ... no matter
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://blog.spaf.us/post/119499216803/two-security-researchers-break-rsa-4096-bit-keys << hard to even believe. someone ought to contact the man (assuming he exists in life) and ask, if he shat this out
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Hasimir: the sole purpose of that directory key is to provide minimal (stress minimal) proof that the entity controlling an email address approves the key as theirs, no more
Hasimir: the other key (kind of) like it is the Hushmail DEMO key
Hasimir: anyone not using hush can get their key signed by that by registering their key through the hushtools.com site and later retrieving the signed copy
Hasimir: the other reason for using that, though, is to allow hush users to encrypt to you
trinque: !gettrust Hasimir
assbot: Trust relationship from user trinque to user Hasimir: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=trinque&to=Hasimir | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Hasimir/
Hasimir: which really surprises journalists
trinque: !rate Hasimir 1 new blood
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d1f2f90d631e4799
trinque: !v assbot:trinque.rate.Hasimir.1:ee9a4ae47c1dbfa21b646a35781ef846e516c54a915fa94d0a8160270a65b2f8
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for Hasimir with note: new blood
Hasimir: cheers :)
Pierre_Rochard: !up ascii_field
Hasimir: anyway, things like the directory key and the hush key are about the same as keybase.io
Hasimir: well, keybase might be a little more useful (but would be better if it did not try to manage private keys for anyone)
ascii_field: Hasimir: idk why anyone would want to pwn it, either. ask the fine folks who made the faux key for it..
Hasimir: well, current theory from werner is it's just a software bug
ascii_field: Hasimir: lie, and beneath contempt.
ascii_field: Hasimir: examine the evidence for yourself. tell me it is a bug.
Hasimir: erm ... do you use gpg or something else to access openpgp functionality?
ascii_field: as, other meaning here
ascii_field: 'About 30 key with a valid key binding but with a partly duplicated
ascii_field: subkey where both have a valid key binding signature. Most likely a software bug.' << possible
ascii_field: and aha, they are already starting with 'That reminds if of a private discussion I had last autumn. Some guy
ascii_field: downloaded most RSA keys from a keyserver and tried to factor....'
ascii_field: just as i predicted
ascii_field: shitgnomes and their 'it didn't happen. if it happened, it doesn't matter. if it matters - one of -our- people did it first, of course!'
ascii_field: 'Incidentally, I met one of the other guys with a broken subkey at
ascii_field: LinuxCon and he told me that some folks complained that they can't encrypt to him. For other this was no problem, though.' << this part should surprise no one. the boobytrap works on -someone-.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu ^^^
Hasimir: he was copied in on the email directly
Hasimir: but has since said he's not interested (the follow up by DKG has that)
Hasimir: anyway, until the specific cause is identified, it can't be called either way
ascii_field: aaaand for some reason this only happens to interesting keys, aha
ascii_field: like debian signing key
ascii_field: and anwin
ascii_field: cosmic rays and memory corruption, apparently, can not only create valid self-sigs, but spare boring folks like you & i.
Hasimir: but what makes them interesting? just that it happened?
Hasimir: didn't spare all the boring folks
Hasimir: Charly Avital is on that list too
Hasimir: and he's a 70-year-old hobbyist
ascii_field: Hasimir: who said boring
ascii_field: what kind of hobbyist ?
Hasimir: just the local computer club kind
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101100 @ 0.00027177 = 27.4759 BTC [+]
Hasimir: and you said boring, like 7 lines up
ascii_field: Hasimir: you claimed that '70-year-old hobbyist' is necessarily boring
ascii_field: i - disagree.
Hasimir: oh, I see what you mean now ... so how are his keys more interesting than ours?
trinque: that would be the thing to answer
ascii_field: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2015-May/053644.html << koch claims that memory corruption can result in 1) corrupted key that is 2) has valid (!!!) signature. this is an insult to every intelligent reader and beneath contempt.
ascii_field: or perhaps he does not claim this, but passes off as plausible
Hasimir: specifically in relation to merging keys, not in general
ascii_field: he must think we are morons.
ascii_field: to even give this hypothesis the time of day, just imagine.
ascii_field: aaaaand 'we did this all, yes, believe us, we just never bothered to mention in public'
Hasimir: proving or disproving it would require merging multiple keys across a broad range of openpgp implementations and operating systems
ascii_field: Hasimir: the null hypothesis is not 'miracle happened.' this is not how it works.
Hasimir: yes, but it doesn't prove your malicious bastards theory either
Hasimir: no one on that list has said, "this is the answer" - they're discussing theories and you're attacking them for doing so, it seems a bit odd
ascii_field: Hasimir: you are asking me to believe that a large number of moduli, carefully crafted such that in mutilated form, they are factorable -and- have valid sigs, is something that could somehow happen by accident.
ascii_field: and that the presence of several 'interesting' names in the list, is also merely fortuitous.
ascii_field: and that the burden of proof somehow lies on the reasonable, literate folks who can see, plain as daylight, that this is as likely as a bullet spontaneously materializing inside lincoln
Hasimir: Phil Zimmermann isn't on that list, neither is RMS or even a former PM of my country (and yes, it was a real key)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is also not on list
ascii_field: what of it.
ascii_field: no one said it includes whole planet's worth of 'cool kidz'
Hasimir: there are plenty of more interesting keys to target than that list
trinque: Hasimir: now who is speculating
ascii_field: and this is supposed to be an argument in favour of miracle ??!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95021 @ 0.00027685 = 26.3066 BTC [+] {2}
Hasimir: trinque, true, but if the malicious bastards theory is the most viable answer: what is the motive?
trinque: that's not the question to ask
trinque: the question is "what do these keys have in common?"
Hasimir: what is then?
ascii_field: Hasimir: damned if i know. i - only see the bullet.
trinque: and that isn't currently known
ascii_field: Hasimir: good number of german pirate party folks
trinque: great reason to keep digging though
ascii_field: suggests to me - BND.
Hasimir: trinque, indeed
ascii_field: (who else gives a phuck about german pirate party)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82929 @ 0.00028027 = 23.2425 BTC [+]
Hasimir: ascii_field, we certainly don't, it's why we split from ppi
Hasimir: I need to script that, clearly
ascii_field: wai wat
ascii_field: who is 'we'
Hasimir: ppau
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99347 @ 0.00028027 = 27.844 BTC [+]
Hasimir: oh, did I forget to mention, I'm the treasurer of pirate party australia
ascii_field: 'Is it possible that a keyserver running the old, buggy PKS code
ascii_field: (v. 0.9.something) mangled these keys?' << are they idiots or just pretending ?
ascii_field: mangled and signed with valid sig, aha
Hasimir: it's just a question, what's the problem with asking it?
Hasimir waits for the penny to drop ...
trinque: "teach the controversy" tactic
Hasimir: hardly
Hasimir: I can assure you that post in particular is from someone who just wants to know the answer
trinque: on the one hand, how something functions, on the other, what someone intends
ascii_field: someone who, charitable interpretation is, did not take even five minutes to think.
ascii_field: 'perhaps the bullet was always in lincoln, from birth'
trinque: the vast majority of responses I've seen to this are of the "not worth looking into" variety
jurov: what if the answer is no, keyserver can't ever produce valid sig in this case?
ascii_field: 'perhaps it fell from the moon'
trinque: not "this is why this is bullshit"
jurov: Hasimir, how can keyserver produce signatures of anything?
jurov: *valid* ones
Hasimir: jurov, it can't, but if the sig was already there, but other data got mangled, it might account for some things
jurov: what things?
trinque: if a factored subkey has a sig from the master key wtf
Hasimir: the lack of data indicating cipher prefs on a key
ascii_field: and why would a 'bug' affect ONLY (!!!) 1) moduli 2) m^d mod n 3) exponent, which is ALWAYS 281479271743489 after the transformation, regardless of what it originally was 3) ALL FIELDS ARE CORRECTLY SIZED
ascii_field: motherfuckers
trinque: I'm an idiot and I understand that much
Hasimir: such as in the case of the key dignork and I discussed earlier
trinque: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ty trinque.
jurov: Hasimir, so I take some key, mangle "data indicating cipher prefs" and whatnot, and viola, valid signature without original key's owner knowledge?
Hasimir: no idea
ascii_field: and we are to believe that this happens by accident, with no other bits flipped. ever.
Hasimir: I never claimed to have answers, but you guys are locked into the "it must be a conspiracy" mindset and assuming any criticism is part of the conspiracy
ascii_field: incidentally, i just walked the totality of sks db looking for -all- rsa keys with pub-exponents equal to 281479271743489.
ascii_field: they are -all- in the set from the heuristic published on mircea_popescu's www.
jurov: Hasimir: you're too willing not to think about it and handwave it away
Hasimir: the weird pattern thing?
ascii_field: Hasimir: yes. you can write a proggy to create this type of key from any rsa pubkey you like.
Hasimir: jurov, not so, if that were the case I wouldn't be here discussing it
ascii_field: aaactually
ascii_field: Hasimir: please realize that so far you are setting off every possible alarm in my head, 'disinfo agent'
trinque: incidentally I don't recall anyone here making specific claims about who is behind this
ascii_field: Hasimir: also realize that we are talking about an experiment which -any- interested reader, at this point, could replicate.
ascii_field: data is public. the code, largely - also public.
Hasimir: trinque, except for the BND ...
ascii_field: BND is just a random guess of mine at present, based on the de pirate party thing
ascii_field: but there are human fingerprints on it. take the 'bug' or 'cosmic ray' hypothesis to a home for retarded folks. nobody here is dumb enough to fall for it.
ascii_field: this goes for -all- the agents who read the logs.
Hasimir: alright, assume you're right then, what do they gain by doing this in a way that can be found by regular(-ish) geeks?
trinque: the gain may have already been had
trinque: who knows
ascii_field: Hasimir: look when it was done, and when found
Hasimir: in which case the target is on that list
ascii_field: we have a skeleton here, not fresh corpse
Hasimir: so 2010-11
Hasimir: or so
ascii_field: Hasimir: the target is almost certainly -not- on the list
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00028515 = 7.8416 BTC [+]
ascii_field: it is someone who -would have written- to one or more of the folks on the list.
Hasimir: ah, of course ...
Hasimir: hrm ...
Hasimir: so someone who already had all those keys in their keyring ...
ascii_field: Hasimir: the genuine keys, you mean ?
Hasimir: or at least all the names ...
Hasimir: yeah
ascii_field: for all we know, it is possible that on some pgp client the faux keys could replace the genuine ones if user ever 'synced' from sks
ascii_field: but this is secondary.
ascii_field: i very much get what the agents are trying to achieve, yes.
ascii_field: a soft fecal matter consensus that 'there is nothing worth looking into here, move along'
Hasimir: I think there's something worth looking into it until an answer is confirmed
ascii_field: that's more like it.
Hasimir: you realise that's not a change of attitude, right?
Hasimir: though logic and healthy skepticism requires questioning myself just as much, if not more so, than anyone else ...
BingoBoingo: Hasimir: You have to understand influence agents of various sorts have passed here before
BingoBoingo: !s ninjashogun
assbot: 1771 results for 'ninjashogun' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ninjashogun
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 16:47:05; asciilifeform: once you've been 'taught the controversy' - that is, convincing that there -even is- reasonable debate among informed people, on a particular subject - the lie becomes a kind of half-truth, automagically
mod6: <+ascii_field> 'Is it possible that a keyserver running the old, buggy PKS code ... << this is gotta be trolling, right??
trinque: plausibility of the lie is what's sought, not confirming it
Hasimir: BingoBoingo, somewhere I have a log of a PM with that guy who we later learned was the undercover agent going after silk road v1
Hasimir: so yeah, I get it
ascii_field: mod6: they are so accustomed to the illiteracy of the general public, that they are entirely unprepared for folks with half a clue.
ascii_field: let alone a full clue.
trinque: Hasimir: that would be an awesome thing to sign and deedbot-
Hasimir: trinque, it includes him trying to lure me into discussing it and me giving him armchair legal advice
trinque: sounds hilarious; deedbot- it!
Hasimir: it is so much funnier with knowing who packt/c0dex is ...
Hasimir: I'll have a look at this deedbot thing then ...
ascii_field: Hasimir: incidentally, zimmerman is not on the list because he is an nsa asset in good standing. the 'silent circle' and multi-coloured phones idiocies are more than ample proof of this
ascii_field: usg -has- his genuine private key when it wants to.
ascii_field: -how- he turned - i haven't a clue
ascii_field: but to classify him as a genuine person may turn out to be dangerous for one's health (assuming that one is not asset himself)
Hasimir: well, I know nsa head-hunted at least one nai employee back when they owned pgp corp
Hasimir: that was Stephen Smalley
Hasimir: as far as I'm aware he's still working for NSA
ascii_field: 'by their fruit you will know them' (TM)
ascii_field: if zimmerman isn't in the pay of usg - he oughta be sending them a bill.
Hasimir: or by their selinux mailing list in this case
Hasimir: speaking of ancient arcane shit ... I also have a full copy of everything that the nsa had on radium.ncsc.mil prior to september 11
Hasimir: it includes the rainbow series
Hasimir: I should probably pop that onto an s3 instance
trinque: Hasimir: deedbot records the sha256 of gpg signed messages into the bitcoin blockchain
jurov: heh seems there will be leaks.b-a.link soon
Hasimir: trinque, oh my ...
Hasimir: trinque, and the docs are where?
Hasimir: merci
Hasimir: it has to be clearsigned?
trinque: yeah
Hasimir: or just signed and ascii armoured?
Hasimir: does it look for the "BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE" header?
trinque: yes
trinque: Hasimir: either that or a public key
trinque: you have to feed him your public key first, and it checks that against what assbot knows about
Hasimir: ah, that explains why it can't be done with gpg -sa (a pity, that's a great way to avoid encoding errors)
trinque: I synced over keys from assbot once, but am not running it via cron yet
Hasimir: as in charset encoding errors
trinque: Hasimir: deedbot- has his own key in the WoT, rate him and leave feedback and I'll get to it
Hasimir: all it would take would be the same as allowing it to hash any pgp message
Hasimir: the output looks the same, but with -sa it's not encrypted, just signed
trinque: encoding hasn't been a problem yet
trinque: anyhow use it, see what works/doesn't, rate the guy
Hasimir: cool, will do
trinque: I tend to hack on it on the weekends
Hasimir: heh
Hasimir: I've got a lot of crap ... er, code like that
trinque: yup, I don't tend to stop coding, just swap which project
Hasimir: the pyme port was a weekend effort ... about a fortnight ago
Hasimir: but then I'm a fan of py3 (yes, yes, I'm a heretic too)
trinque: speaking of which
trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel ok, I'm loading up masamune
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: fucker got me with his "3d" CLIM, whatever that means
trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel http://dpaste.com/017XXRK.txt
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.
Hasimir: hmph
trinque: Hasimir: it has a few sites whitelisted
trinque: dpaste among them
trinque: and needs the raw URL
trinque: .txt
deedbot-: imported: DB4724E6FA4286C92B4E55C4321E4E2373590E5D
trinque: donk
Hasimir: beat me to it ...
Hasimir: nice little api on dpaste too ...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 159350 @ 0.00027277 = 43.4659 BTC [-] {3}
Hasimir: oh wow, paypal just capitulated -- I'll be back later, I've got Treasurer duties to perform
trinque: cya
cazalla: Hasimir, from Melbourne eh?
Hasimir: cazalla, yep
Hasimir: ok, account drained, now I can relax a little ...
cazalla: to borrow from 8chan.. >>2015, still voting
Hasimir: I guess paypal take allegations of 14 counts of their breaching the electoral act seriously after all ...
cazalla: Hasimir, what do you gain by wasting time trying to change the politics down under?
Hasimir: I wish I could've seen their internal company panic, though
Hasimir: I've got a greater chance of influencing here than in the capital of the world ... I mean America
Hasimir: granted, not a huge chance
Hasimir: but still asliver of one
cazalla: meh i gave up voting years ago, don't even bother turning up whether it's local, state or federal election.. they can pay me for my time if they're that keen for my vote
trinque: last vote I cast was for Ron Paul in 2008, lol
trinque: ...I'm done.
cazalla: trinque, at least you have the option not to vote.. i usually find myself rediscovering my religious roots on election day which exempts me from wasting my time.. why Hasimir would volunteer to waste even more of his time though, i can't figure that one
trinque: compulsory voting, hilarious
trinque: bbl
Hasimir: well, technically it's compulsory getting your name ticked off, but most vote once they're there
cazalla: nah, it's not
cazalla: AEC send a please explain letter and that's the end of it
Hasimir: yeah, I missed a local council election once and got a similar thing
Hasimir: on the plus side, being more politically active than the vec makes it believable when I say I was too sick to walk to the polling station
cazalla: it's against my religious values to vote is already more than i should be required to tell them
Hasimir: that works?
cazalla: i've never had an issue with it or received a fine
Hasimir: nice
cazalla: and anyway, you don't need to vote in order to be politically active
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109150 @ 0.00027652 = 30.1822 BTC [+]
Hasimir: also true, but I'm addicted to the game
Hasimir: I know, I know ...
cazalla: BingoBoingo, acid for blood?
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Looks like a mix of some sort didn't want to stay in its container
mircea_popescu: yaty gribble. lol.
mircea_popescu: apparently some people are following.
mircea_popescu: the fact that someone would spend the time to type in a 12 paragraph, 500 word reply made out of pure banal WITHOUT BOTHERING TO READ THE ARTICLE
mircea_popescu: or to understand specifically what's being said or anything whatsoever... people must be real lonely.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l, my comment is gone
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109300 @ 0.00028099 = 30.7122 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: or hm, nm
asciilifeform: different stackexchange
mircea_popescu: he quotes "Note that it is not said nor implied here that there's any sort of theoretical vulnerability related to using 65537 as an exponent for RSA.". the full quote is "Note that it is not said nor implied here that there's any sort of theoretical vulnerability related to using 65537 as an exponent for RSA. The point is that you don't know what exact implementation flaws the NSA is or may be relying on, and for this
mircea_popescu: reason giving as little quarter as possible is the correct policy."
mircea_popescu: why even.
jurov: "top kek"
mircea_popescu: it's a legit user.
jurov: yes, i meant the graph mostly
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142070 << it's a different sort of thing to do, hence the art discussion in the original.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 18:12:46; ascii_field: trinque: i dare say that -no one- can make money doing -this-
mike_c: I'll put on the list: "make 1-1 trust graph look better" :)
mircea_popescu: mike_c incidentally it could just be a xckd-ish cartoon/joke
mircea_popescu: if you have the energy.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 18:16:30; jurov: can one go to mars by carefully cultivating their mind?
mircea_popescu: and by the way, have any of the young eager minds here a la pete_d actually read dali's LIFE ? orwell reminds us it is certainly on the list.
mircea_popescu: it does. it would. it sucks more than bad unix.
BingoBoingo: The problem of how many of the marketed moving parts work as advertised and only as advertised.
BingoBoingo: No need to imagine if there were a dozen different versions of 'cat' because that's our situation
mircea_popescu: problem is deeper than that, and scales exponentially.
mircea_popescu: if you wish to make sure your salt is salt, spectrometric assay is cheap and purity is a matter of weighing.
mircea_popescu: if you wish to verify an -usually unstable- 28k molecule compound, spectrometric assay is impractical and purity can in principle not even be established.
Hasimir: wow, I never thought I'd discover paypal's kryptonite so quickly ...
mircea_popescu: you had ?
BingoBoingo: Indeed. All of a sudden you've got to put the stuff in a controlled solution and break out the X-Rays and magnification
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo and by the time you're done... you know it WOULD HAVE BEEN USEFUL. but you used it up.
mircea_popescu: like the little girl that got sent to buy matches and make sure threy burn! so she came home with no matches
BingoBoingo: Of course
mircea_popescu: because she had burned them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133250 @ 0.00027205 = 36.2507 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: sooo... http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html finally looks like it's getting somewhere
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142104 << i'm aware, and i think it's amusing, just how varied this cult is, or in other words http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1138869
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 18:38:05; ascii_field: trinque: laugh if you like, but my issue with gabriel_laddel is precisely that he is willing to compromise -too much- rather than not enough.
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 10:15:46; justJanne: The largest issue is that many people discussed with me, each having different opinions.
mircea_popescu: jurov sweet. but could the repeated string Author be replaced with the nick ?
jurov: yes, it's planned
mircea_popescu: coolness
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142114 << apparently he doesn't think so, which is strange. i do.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 18:44:12; trinque: ascii_field: in your mind is cardano not this kind of pragmatic first step towards future hardware production?
mircea_popescu: not terribru concerning, this disagreement.
jurov: mod6, ben_vulpes, everyone: http://bluesky/ml/test/patches.html needs to manually fill data for "Released in/Based on" columns - just version strings for every patch, help appreciated
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142132 << they "could have" so they "might as well have had!!1". the all-consuming four points of the book are at work in the belly of hte beast itself, disgesting its own limbs.
mircea_popescu: because... if you can you must.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116950 @ 0.0002841 = 33.2255 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, that reddit suggests to me we shall soon have reddit/hn/twitter/facebook/everything accounts, each and every last one of us. and we won't even have to man them :D
mircea_popescu: !s enigmail
assbot: 9 results for 'enigmail' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=enigmail
mircea_popescu: mmmmkay.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wai wat
asciilifeform: ah that.
mircea_popescu: AsciilifeformOfficial sez : plox use enigmail kthx bai
asciilifeform: wai where
mircea_popescu: in the future.
asciilifeform: surely.
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/168S2P8.txt )
asciilifeform: signed with twiddled key no less.
mircea_popescu: lol srsly.
asciilifeform: by cosmic ray (TM)
mircea_popescu: "nsa's pgp keyservers not responsible for fraud - there is a history of cosmic rays having done this before"
jurov: yes, there are atempts to use an AI to continue online activity of the deceased
asciilifeform: !s dead souls
assbot: 7 results for 'dead souls' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dead+souls
jurov: when done, will be surely extended to living
mircea_popescu: i think the point here is more along the lines of AD not AI
mircea_popescu: no further research needed.
asciilifeform: btw, all keys on sks having pub-e of 281479271743489 are 'magical.'
asciilifeform: tested today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's the cosmic ray magic number.
asciilifeform: surely.
mircea_popescu: you see chitlin, cosmic rays don't often interfere with digital computers. but when they do, they always stamp in 281479271743489.
BingoBoingo: It's God's righteous number
BingoBoingo: You jsut hafta bereave
mircea_popescu: cosmic rays come from Social Justice not from god you heathen
asciilifeform: from HumanRights (TM)
asciilifeform: phun phakt: ukrs officially rescinded HumanRights (TM) (R) in ua! just the other day
mircea_popescu: they can do that ?
asciilifeform: poor orcs
BingoBoingo: Ur prolly right, Any benevolent cosmic ray god would not allow this http://i.imgur.com/i0sbSYb.jpg
mircea_popescu: bockade ? did they send pedos at the protestors ?
asciilifeform: ^ from horse's mouth
mircea_popescu: eagerly awaiting the kerrys of this world going "the atrocities in ukraine are due to russia!!1 the ukr govt clearly said they would break geneva convention unless russia buys them a popsicle and russia didn't!!11"
asciilifeform: the whole idiot 'international komyoonity' edifice can digest any contradiction, likely
asciilifeform: but the lulz!
jurov: ;;merkel already did
gribble: Error: "merkel" is not a valid command.
jurov: ;;google 281479271743489
gribble: Dealing with ext3 and sparse_super - Lists - Gnu: <http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-parted/2005-05/msg00070.html>
asciilifeform: this comes a day after the ua parliament voted to stop paying debt
jurov: that numer appears in many places
asciilifeform: which is somehow not a default, because... ???
asciilifeform: jurov: 0x1000100010001
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142175 << for them sacking is pointless, they don't have a qual programme so they'd just get the same muppets in a diff hat and have to remake the political arrangements. cost, no benefit.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 20:40:55; ascii_field: betcha - no one.
mircea_popescu: jurov i don't often cosmic ray, but when i cosmic ray i always every fourth bit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, we have now experimentally found the wavelength of cosmic rays.
mircea_popescu: they're four bits long.
asciilifeform: turns out!
asciilifeform: and are strongly attracted to start of pub-exponent.
asciilifeform: we now know how to deflect cosmic rays from spacecraft!
mircea_popescu: see, the way this works is, if the ray is going across the wire, then nothing happens. but if the ray goes through the wire, as it can happen rarely (random rotational positioning), then it hits every 4th bit.
mircea_popescu: fiat physics!
mircea_popescu: o yeah, let's patent this!
asciilifeform: but only for 49 bits.
asciilifeform: therewego.
mircea_popescu: A Method To Insulate Aircraft From Cosmic Rays Digitally. "just carry a large bunch of e's in a pile outside hte ship"
BingoBoingo should have done law school, or at least more Science classes so could at least become "patent agent"
mircea_popescu: you can still become nerve agent :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is not a default BECAUSE THEY VOTES.
mircea_popescu: jeez you don't know anything.
BingoBoingo: Imma be a something
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "Because the PGP Global Directory allows users to manage lost keys, it cannot use cryptographic mechanisms for verification. Instead, like mailing list servers and other public Internet services, the PGP Global Directory verifies a key by requiring a response to a verification email sent to each email address specified on the key. It also requires periodic re-confirmation for each advertised email address
mircea_popescu: by soliciting a response to a re-verification email."
mircea_popescu: am i slow or something ? wut ?
asciilifeform: a few of the faux keys are labeled 'pgp corp. global directory'
mircea_popescu: reading on the log...
BingoBoingo thinks asciilifeform would make excellent motivational speaker
asciilifeform: which is how i found the lolzatron
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142195 << the list of people who died of starvation ?
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 21:22:14; *: ascii_field found this by looking at The List, of course
asciilifeform: the other one.
jurov: is the former public?
asciilifeform: jurov: aha. posted on mircea_popescu's www
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64650 @ 0.00028515 = 18.4349 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Endnotes [1] It's since been pointed out to me that renewals don't trigger WAPs. Renewals were in the original specification but the Registrars Stakeholder Group managed to get it taken out.
mircea_popescu: heh it explains why im not getting flooded.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess we'll be moving to our own internet sooner than anyone anticipated.
mircea_popescu: "One of the commenters on your other linked post (from when the policy was announced last year) mentioned having to create a Gmail account just to resolve the problem. Sure, that's a hardship after the fact, but there's little harm in proactively creating a Gmail account solely for the purpose of WHOIS contact."
mircea_popescu: oh fuck you in the head already
mircea_popescu: jesus christ these people.
mircea_popescu: "you can not have an independent domain without a facebook account! internet OF THINGS, bitch!"
asciilifeform: why spam drop has to be in 'gmail' ? (not that this isn't one of the few remaining uses of it)
asciilifeform: or is it the tls idiocy
asciilifeform: where 'plebe' domains can't actually receive mail from 'brahmin' domains
mircea_popescu: it's a plain "don't use your own server/domain for your email" thing. which is not the only thing that's wrong with this, but in light of the recent humiliation clinton delivered upon them...
mircea_popescu: (you recall, she used her own set-up in her own office, the nsa couldn't get her emails aha)
mircea_popescu: so now a contrived icann policy that, no doubt atr some point in the retarded comissions, had "it'll prevent private webservers" as a +
asciilifeform: they were pissed after having to spend fiddybux bribing server monkey, aha
mircea_popescu: anywa, whaty about this spaf dude ?
mircea_popescu: it's just a link under a page of cv-derp
asciilifeform: claims to be 'professor of xyz', blog on spambler appeared from nowhere, sole post is reprint of the idiot crud
mircea_popescu: all i see is a link to it.
asciilifeform: aha link
asciilifeform: to the word salad version
mircea_popescu: Hasimir you should probably look into gossipd while at it, to understand why we think very little indeed of all these "solutions" or w/e they are, colored sugar beads.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform weird.
asciilifeform not convinced that the earlier link has anything to do with the fella featured in above
mircea_popescu: "They found 30 keys with a subkey having one of the
mircea_popescu: first 1000 primes as a factor." <<< aha. somebody's not really done their reading
mircea_popescu: seeing how 10 digit factors and more keys are actually on display in published fucking articles.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's a plain "don't use your own server/domain for your email" thing. which is not the only thing that's wrong with this, but in light of the recent humiliation clinton delivered upon them... << She used exchange, prolly pissed they had to risk a zero day
BingoBoingo: !up gavmatic
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all the 10-digiters i found so far were, iirc, composite
gavmatic: thanks
asciilifeform: so the small-primes thing isn't nonsense off the bat
BingoBoingo: gavmatic: I saw you've done some bitcoin news sort of posts on your blog
asciilifeform: but the 'yeah we knew all this' is a typical crock'o'shit, yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how composite ? i clearly recall there being primes longer
gavmatic: yes i've submitted some stuff
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i only got a chance to test the first 9 or so
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: will need to automate this, yes
gavmatic: it's more a hobby at the moment, writing i think is over valued in our culture :)
gavmatic: err under valued
mircea_popescu: 73014444049 = 17 * 641 * 6700417
mircea_popescu: first one i looked at
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: none of it surprises, random n will normally have many small primefactors
mircea_popescu: now, 7 digit thing is prime. eminently not in the first 1k
BingoBoingo: gavmatic: Seriously consider submitting some pieces to qntra
mircea_popescu: actuallky not even in the first 1mn, obviously.
BingoBoingo: !gettrust gavmatic
assbot: Trust relationship from user BingoBoingo to user gavmatic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=BingoBoingo&to=gavmatic | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/gavmatic/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, but folks normally speak of the smallest prime factor
gavmatic: thank you for the suggestion
asciilifeform: (why? ask'em)
BingoBoingo: gavmatic: It's a way for you to write and accumulate shares which may have value eventually. Also qntra can always use moar text
gavmatic: I understand, thank you very much for the offer, I will keep this in mind.
BingoBoingo: !rate gavmatic 1 prospect in textfarm system
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f1bda7d6d3a631e8
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the implication i read in the quoted line was along the lines of Apocalyptic s http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-05-2015#1140786
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 20:54:58; Apocalyptic: I multiply then the modulus N by 3 (or any other small prime, the value doesn't matter)
mircea_popescu: but perhaps i misread.
BingoBoingo: !v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.gavmatic.1:0bae20ad25ba58bc558f2be25839dd89ce2b9d14a02fc037319734fe92bbf8e9
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gavmatic with note: prospect in textfarm system
jurov: mircea_popescu: pls to mpex queue. and there's a lulzy bug, CANCEL|1 responds the order is mangled despite i do have this order
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 21:54:53; ascii_field: LinuxCon and he told me that some folks complained that they can't encrypt to him. For other this was no problem, though.' << this part should surprise no one. the boobytrap works on -someone-.
mircea_popescu: can they actually SAY WHO ?
mircea_popescu: jurov on it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic started out by suggesting - correctly - that having, e.g., 3 - as factor - was not proof of weakness by itself, because one could take mircea_popescu's modulus, multiply by 3
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. and the implication i read was "a small prime AND ONLY THAT SMALL PRIME"
asciilifeform: but this was, presumably, before he finished reading and learned -why- 3 was a factor
mircea_popescu: otherwise i have nfi why what the guy said is worth saying
asciilifeform: iirc he 'shot first before asking questions'
mircea_popescu: (the guy = on the email list linked above we're discussing)
asciilifeform: ah -that- one
asciilifeform: i haven't a clue on whom the trap sprung
asciilifeform: all the private meangurlz whispering, srsly, l0l
BingoBoingo has been meaning to watch that film
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mega-recommended
BingoBoingo may or may not be putting it on a certain que
BingoBoingo has watched 'Milliona Dollar Baby' too many times this month
BingoBoingo finds most confusing about gabriel_laddel that he would suppose people pay for *nix'en
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the way i understand, he thinks he has some kind of divine exception from the shit-wine-mixture-theorem
asciilifeform: where the shit gets to turn into wine rather than vice-versa (what it does on -our- planet)
BingoBoingo: Perhaps he aspires to master C machine?
asciilifeform: not seeing this intention in his works thus far
asciilifeform: but i'll let the man himself explain
asciilifeform: when he feels like it
BingoBoingo: To be fair odd idea people find their way here and he wants a Lispy Unix. You tried to break Opterons into Lisp-Machiners.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: but he is even more broadly mistaken in imagining that market will pay enough for -any- operating system to support a moiety, much less a grown man
BingoBoingo: Sometimes one needs to ride the rail before finding a train
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i tried many things
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i didn't get the impression his expectation is being directly paid.
BingoBoingo: My impression is he want's those support contracts Redhat failed and was cannabilized upon
asciilifeform: how he planned to turn it into food&rent, i have no clue, but he implied knowing of a way.
BingoBoingo still works on polishing his portfolio yards polishing his mexican credentials
mod6: <+jurov> mod6, ben_vulpes, everyone: http://bluesky/ml/test/patches.html needs to manually fill data for "Released in/Based on" columns - just version strings for every patch, help appreciated << this is 404 for me.
asciilifeform: wai wat
mircea_popescu: bluesky ?!
mircea_popescu: mod6 baby what happened there ?
mircea_popescu: you forgot to click the confirm link in your icann email ? :D
asciilifeform: forget for two weeks and it's the dulap !
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142238 << dude check out the retarded children of today. "hi would you talk to me privately seeing how i'm too autistic to engage in the proper channels, of which i have a bevy at my disposal from www to irc ?" "no. and get your head out of your ass." "oh you know what ? I AM GOING TO PUBLISH YOUR EMAIL NAO BECAUSE MY HEAD WORKS FINE INSIDE MY ASS"
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 21:56:03; Hasimir: but has since said he's not interested (the follow up by DKG has that)
mircea_popescu: what exactly is happening in the us ? is it a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland where children are brought up mostly by wolves and weevils ?
asciilifeform: weevils.
mircea_popescu: have you people no families, no fathers, do you not spend any time with your parents, is there no school, are there no books, nothing ?
asciilifeform: last wolf at his luger long ago
mircea_popescu: sometimes it looks like a separate planet.
mircea_popescu: in what world is this sort of behaviour tolerated even of seven year olds, in their first year of schooling ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is a loose network of people who had fathers, went to school, read the occasional book even. for the bulk of the rest of the schmucks - above applies, yes
decimation: lul > " one count of "operating as an airman without an airman's certificate"" < so if he did not practice and prepare for his flight, and rampantly disregarded safety, would he not have 'operated as an airman'
asciilifeform: decimation: and i bet that thing is under weight limit
mircea_popescu: lol. mmmyeah.
asciilifeform: below which - no license needed
asciilifeform: official usg law, no less
asciilifeform: he will have to sit down in the jail for trespassing
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 baby what happened there ? << not sure. anyway, even if I add in ".com" or w/e to that link jurov posted, still nada.
mod6: not sure what jurov was referring to.
decimation: "premeditated disregard for usg's rules"
asciilifeform: the hilarious part is the signed confession, apparently, -before- the flight
asciilifeform: (was not believed)
asciilifeform: ianal, but in usa, a machine below ~100kg is not considered an 'aircraft' and is not required to have items such as radio, lights, or a licensed flyer
Hasimir: I was pinged?
Hasimir: oh, quoted, nvm
mircea_popescu: Hasimir well since you're here...
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:00:35; Hasimir: didn't spare all the boring folks
mircea_popescu: what sort of argument is this supposed to be even, "it didn't spare all the boring folks".
mircea_popescu: i came here for an argument! this is just contradiction, an automated gainsaying of everything the op says!
BingoBoingo: So in case of Illinois vs. Bingo... Evidentiary hearing which was finally scheduled... continued again because St Clair County's State's Attourney has more asses than heads
mircea_popescu: lol how long has that thing been going nao ?
Hasimir: well, I'm not here for argument, I'm here to try and find out what the cause is
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Since May 2013
Hasimir: even if it is not directed by a malevolent actor
Hasimir: obviously if it is it'll be more interesting, but that's not enough to make it so ...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know there is redress for it taking too long, but i dun think iut's taken too long enough yet.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: And I object to calling the case It's proper title because as and Illinois people I reject consensus on the people of Illinois vs. me title
mircea_popescu: Hasimir i dun see how it'd make it more interesting, but ok.
asciilifeform: i, for instance, will find it more interesting if we learn that it was caused by displeasure of the gods
asciilifeform: like earthquakes!
asciilifeform: (modern gods fire cosmic rays at sinners. earthquake - passe)
Hasimir: it'd be more interesting because then you get to pursue them to find out what they're up to, like in any good detective story
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142263 << which workload he conveniently DOES NOT present.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:04:45; Hasimir: proving or disproving it would require merging multiple keys across a broad range of openpgp implementations and operating systems
mircea_popescu: do you understand what dismissal with prejudice is ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That redress is if they wait too long to file in the first place. But if hearing that takes 2 years to schedule has to be blown off because prosecutor whales aren't ready... Maybe I have a disposition by $5000/BTC
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 im sure he meant http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html << ahhh! ok. was soooo confused. was wondering if he bought a new domain ;)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142266 << he is not attacking them "for doing so". he, and i, and ~the rest of the world~ is pointing and laughing at them for their hallucinogenic subjective positioning where they seem to regard themselves as some sort of authority to whjich things are proven.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:06:44; Hasimir: no one on that list has said, "this is the answer" - they're discussing theories and you're attacking them for doing so, it seems a bit odd
mircea_popescu: b-a is the sitting authority, not some random twerps on the mailing list of some random usg-mandated security theatre "product"
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, I'm happy to test on the systems I've got here or have access to, but that's not a broad range
mircea_popescu: and THEY are the ones who are NOT at liberty to make claims other than humbly and with a lot of proof.
Hasimir: for example, there's no windows boxes here
mircea_popescu: because THEY are the inferiors in this social encounter.
mircea_popescu: none of this having anything whatsoever to do with the actual math involved.
mod6: jurov: ahh, ok, so let's talk about the best way to do this when we get a chance.
asciilifeform: funny how the -only-, afaik, place where the maths have come up... is here.
asciilifeform: (and trilema)
Hasimir: so you want peer review, fine, who do you consider your peers?
mircea_popescu: !gettrust Hasimir
assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Hasimir: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=Hasimir | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Hasimir/
mircea_popescu: ^ in there.
Hasimir: hrm ...
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I enthralled by assertions that "you can't get whole key package from factoring subkey" and yet... niggers.txt
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's what some derps quoted seems to suggest. Factoring dat subkey doesn't really give priv key
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: depends which subkey, of who
asciilifeform: some of these folks have only one subkey; others - two; etc
mircea_popescu: but on its face, the notion that someone would even be vaguely relevant for crypto and NOT be in the wot at all is so ridiculous as to defy the mind.
BingoBoingo: Suggestion: For every broken moduli Phuctor signs a message "lol, I suck cocks" from factored keys
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the thing is, some keys consist entirely of two moduli, both of which were factored.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Which is the value of Phuctor signing a sucks cocks message
mircea_popescu: and the problem with that suggestion is that well, much more interesting to spend computational resources to enlarge the breach atm, than to go in depth.
mircea_popescu: time enough to do that once the whole keyset's been combed
Hasimir: depends on which wot really, I can think of one or two that would know the math well enough, but are not involved in bitcoin at all (the pgp wot, however, is another matter)
Hasimir: oh, not counting people on any of the gpg mailing lists
mircea_popescu: of course, any of these twerps peanut-gallery-ing around COULD use their time to do any of the useful things obviously allowed by phuctor having, generously and very uncharacteristically for THEIR FIELD published a lot of raw results
mircea_popescu: but they're not doing that, because idiots.
mircea_popescu: Hasimir if it can't interoperate with assbot's it doesn't matter.
BingoBoingo: Well with factors message signing shouldn't be too much CPU mathing, but I guess if at this rate ~98 keys sign "lol I suck cocks" at the end of sks dump processing makes better Trilema post
mircea_popescu: let those people fix their broken implementation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nah it appears to be because 'mircea_popescu is hitler and asciilifeform is mengele'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform okay.jpg
mircea_popescu: for all the difference it's gonna make.
mircea_popescu: Hasimir what's LR incidentally ?
Hasimir: LR?
mircea_popescu: "My go-to guy for LR-to-BTC conversions at non-exorbitant rates!"
Hasimir: Liberty Reserve
Hasimir: now dead
Hasimir: yeah, that didn't last ...
Hasimir: apparently non-exorbitant was anything between 5 and 10% over spot
Hasimir: I'd found some site that let me turn the lrusd into mtgox coupon code things, so I just churned through it
mircea_popescu: yah i think lots of people doing that 2012ish
Hasimir: sounds about right
Hasimir: I can't complain, my initial stake came from a one night coding effort and then I traded on that and built it a little bit
Hasimir: given my laptop was bought with btc on -otc, I'm *way* ahead :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121042 @ 0.00026846 = 32.4949 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172258 @ 0.00026577 = 45.781 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142287 << logically, if they're german it wouldnb't be the german FOREIGN intelligence ag would it now.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:09:57; ascii_field: suggests to me - BND.
mircea_popescu: but the density of german ppls on that list is, as janna observed, significant enough to raise an eyebrow.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's the one sucking nsa cok
mircea_popescu: as opposed to what, bfv or w/e ?
asciilifeform: i suppose the cock is long enough to shishkebob them all
mircea_popescu: hey, free money.
mod6: danielpbarron: might be a good time to quick retest your key before the next batch
asciilifeform: aha. presently it's spinning wheels burning through the already tested material resubmitted (script lost place when box was powercycled by unknown hands)
asciilifeform: this might take most of night
asciilifeform: if you submit key now, it'll go in head of queue.
mircea_popescu: as it should. cool.
asciilifeform: i will point out, for the record, that i do not expect a proper key to break.
asciilifeform: but one of you fellas might be the lucky one.
mod6: i threw mine in there again, it's 2nd in line or something "(queued, 2 moduli remaining...)"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142297 << o hey. care to enter a summary of that drama into the record ? i've always been vaguely curious but too lazy to actually put it on the intel list.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:13:28; Hasimir: oh, did I forget to mention, I'm the treasurer of pirate party australia
asciilifeform: mod6: cruncher is presently off
mod6: is see what you're saying, i did it about ~5 mins ago. no worries.
mircea_popescu: Vexual patel very common name in india so prolly not.
mircea_popescu: !up Vexual
Hasimir: you mean the ppi thing?
Hasimir: pretty sure it got published on piratetimes.net already
Hasimir: there's a few links, I'll dig them out
mod6: this new vaporizer tank i got is blowing my mind.
mod6: just thought i'd share that :]
asciilifeform: mod6: how's this
asciilifeform: (what is unusual about it)
mircea_popescu: !rate Hasimir 1 Rodney Serkowski, Pirate Party Australia
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6bf447a8c6c1193a
mod6: it's so much better than old one. i'll find a link...
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.Hasimir.1:b81063ad8ebbe75386e6515c03fc2fa43965115006ee19ce8462d99372379307
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for Hasimir with note: Rodney Serkowski, Pirate Party Australia
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he put his mind in the vaporizer :D
asciilifeform: that'd do it.
mircea_popescu: Click here ( 153701009 digits). yum.
mod6: it's "sub ohm" 0.5ohm / Range 15-30W kangeronline.com/products/kanger-subtank-plus-clearomizer
mod6: mircea_popescu: hahah
BingoBoingo: mod6: What are you vaporizing?
Hasimir: oh, you know Rodney?
asciilifeform: mod6: beautiful lathe work
trinque: mod6: damn that thing looks nice
mircea_popescu: Hasimir apparently you do, seeing how he's the treasurer ?
mod6: BingoBoingo: 15mg nic
Hasimir: he was treasurer
Hasimir: now he's backpacking through europe
Hasimir: last I heard, somewhere near russia
mod6: the airflow on this thing is beatutiful
asciilifeform: mod6: what does it plug into? i see no power source
mircea_popescu: when did this happen then ?
Hasimir: well, I became treasurer in 2013, when he decided not to run again
mod6: asciilifeform: that's just the tank, there is a 30W battery that it screws into from the bottom.
mod6: mine is like: eleafworld.com/product/detail.php/eleaf-istick.html -- the one with the digital display i had with me in b-a.
Hasimir: everyone else seemed afraid of the job, but it's not hard
mircea_popescu: Hasimir intel says 2013, Ben McGinnes.
Hasimir: that's me
mircea_popescu: learn a new thing erryday
mod6: didn't i see Ben McGinnes just post something to the thread about MP & the keys on the gnupg list or w/e?
Hasimir: just like it says on my gpg key ;)
mircea_popescu: !rate Hasimir 1 Ben McGinnes, aparently the new treasurer of Pirate Party Australia
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8ff9ad7747daedca
mod6 looks back
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.Hasimir.1:bf7f710965a166083dd04a45ca06e05d82edae78c00b64c6adc73075db7ee508
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for Hasimir from 1 to 1 with note: Ben McGinnes, aparently the new treasurer of Pirate Party Australia
Hasimir: mod6, yep the silly question about the keyserver
Hasimir: mangling thingy
mod6: that was you?!
Hasimir: heheh
Hasimir: and a certain someone didn't twig ...
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, my other hats include co-founding cryptoparty, also in 2012, and writing the bulk of the ppau submission to the national security inquiry
mircea_popescu: which got ignored.
Hasimir: well of course it got ignored, we were in favour of a logical response
Hasimir: and they cried, "Because Terrorism!"
mircea_popescu: but anyway, if you're looking for work to do, there's http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/ which has a 25+btc pouch attached and most of the work done by mats an nubbins already, so cap it off and the lot of ya can then be paid
mod6: asciilifeform: hahhah i never knew!
cazalla: Hasimir, did you run that with asherwolf?
Vexual: Hasimir, any thought on the suggested shipping reforms?
Hasimir: cazalla, yep
Vexual: right answer
mod6: i used to smoke a pipe a long time ago.. not sure if I could get used to e-pipe. pipe tobacco has a nice smell, etc.
mircea_popescu: cazalla i hope you're all weirded out and inception-ed to fuck seeing how all your friends keep showing up in here.
cazalla: Hasimir, can't say i'm a fan.. and look it's Vexual! lol
Hasimir: cazalla, I do tend to describe that thing as my crypto problem child ... but, probably worth it
cazalla: Hasimir, it or her?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, what friends? i know Vexual from here!
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
cazalla: and given Hasimir is from Melbourne, odds are he's a lefty and i'm hitler to those sorts down here
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142321 << not exactly impossible, tho such bugs are so often weaponized it's not worth making the distinction
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:18:20; ascii_field: and why would a 'bug' affect ONLY (!!!) 1) moduli 2) m^d mod n 3) exponent, which is ALWAYS 281479271743489 after the transformation, regardless of what it originally was 3) ALL FIELDS ARE CORRECTLY SIZED
mircea_popescu: cazalla what, you're impugning a whole city now ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the original suggestion, as i read it, was bug in -sks-
asciilifeform: creating, among other things, the valid sig
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, that's not happening.
asciilifeform: which is preposterous.
mircea_popescu: now a bug in [some] gpg... who the fuck knows.
mircea_popescu: 3 secret bugs
asciilifeform: one to crap'em out, another - to swallow
mircea_popescu: and a fanatical devotion to the pope.
Hasimir: cazalla, it, not her and I'm more libertarian, but not the crazy american kind
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142330 << the difference is subtle, but it is present.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:21:33; Hasimir: I never claimed to have answers, but you guys are locked into the "it must be a conspiracy" mindset and assuming any criticism is part of the conspiracy
mircea_popescu: Hasimir how's the crazy american kind ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, seen enough of it to know the place serves as a magnet for sjw types
trinque: mircea_popescu: probably me
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: Hasimir: we have exacting standards for the criticism, is mostly it. you'd find the same treatment in, e.g., physics community circa 1890.
Hasimir: guns above all else, absolutely zero taxes, involvement in society, even if social security is what stops revolutions and blood in the streets, etc.
trinque: Hasimir: how bout yes to 1, voluntary 2, fuck 3
cazalla: Hasimir, not a fan of packing heat?
Hasimir: viewing foreign aid as a handout (instead of the bribery it is)
mircea_popescu: Hasimir the difference between handout and bribery appears as you switch context.
Vexual: ill bet he can make a hot espresso
mircea_popescu: they are the same text.
Hasimir: cazalla, I probably would if I could, but it seems to almost be a religion for some and I've never seen any religion avoid going to a bad place
mircea_popescu: haha that's a point.
mircea_popescu: except he doesn't wanna go to melbourne
Hasimir: it is a little cold, but the coffee is good
Vexual: 2 days on the train to melb, i don't sleep untill i get home
trinque: easy to grant that *any* political group in the states is packed with morons
trinque: the benefits of being armed stand on their own
Hasimir: Vexual, sleep is for the weak, during the week
Vexual: lol
mircea_popescu: trinque a lot more dubious than all that.
trinque: mircea_popescu: how so
mircea_popescu: being armed is like carrying a large 1980s laptop everywhere that can't be turned on
trinque: mircea_popescu: what would better protect my property or own life?
Hasimir: mind you, I live in a place where it's illegal to carry something as relatively tame as pepper spray
Hasimir: as I well know ...
trinque: mircea_popescu: though you and I have vastly different contexts within which to consider those problems
mircea_popescu: you know, just because there isn't a better solution of the same strength doesn't mean it's terribru good.
trinque: haha
trinque: I can grant that
cazalla: Hasimir, not much point calling the cops or ambos if a couple Refugee australis of the somalian kind rock up to your place, i'd much rather put 2 in their chest and compost em
trinque: I'm surrounded by orcs
trinque: meth-fueled even
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cazalla what, you're impugning a whole city now ? << Not like I don't indict whole cities for eventual Bingo Justice
mircea_popescu: trinque mind, i have lived like that, and for extended periods. contrary to what the outsiders think, nobody inside is really all that keen about having to drag the damned things around everywhere.
trinque: ah, yeah I don't carry
trinque: just keep some at home
mircea_popescu: and everyone that does eventually settles for equipment much exactly opposite of what the arms fans favour.
cazalla: Hasimir, what's the pirate party position on weaponry btw?
mircea_popescu: ie, light.
mircea_popescu: and no TaCtIcAl ScOpEz
trinque: lol, certainly not
trinque: a humble handgun and a rifle for sport
Hasimir: cazalla, we don't have a formal position on firearms, but we generally favour individual freedom
mircea_popescu: so the "nuts with guns" angle does have some merit to it fo sho.
mircea_popescu: actually...
mircea_popescu: !s crazy shit stick
assbot: 8 results for 'crazy shit stick' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=crazy+shit+stick
Hasimir: have a look at the bill of rights policy and draw your own conclusions ...
Hasimir: I suspect that if it came to a party vote I'd be in the minority and voting in favour
Hasimir: but we have more important policies to complete first
cazalla: yeah, it's a shame Australians are so fearful of guns
mircea_popescu: ah, the dirty work of politics. which to do first.
Hasimir: blame that fuckwit in tasmania
Hasimir: martin bryant
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: some of the 'crazy shit stick' thing is a result of u.s. folks -forbidden- to carry. the stick grows 'tumours' from being kept in safe anyway
asciilifeform: it's like a soviet tank on a pedestal in cemetary
asciilifeform: might as well weld little flowers to it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform /me knows but what shall i say of it anymore, it's an opaque topic on the basis of erryday experience.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: some of the 'crazy shit stick' thing is a result of u.s. folks -forbidden- to carry. the stick grows 'tumours' from being kept in safe anyway << Fading fast, apparently even I with paper work could carry "crazy shit stick"
asciilifeform: u.s. small arms enthusiasts have separate category in their literature called 'carry'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ianal, but in u.s. locales rich in orcs, 'carry' is normally forbidden
Vexual: when i read carry i imagine a kei truck
BingoBoingo: <trinque> a humble handgun and a rifle for sport << FLip that Rifle for carry and pistol for sport
cazalla: Hasimir, not convinced it was him or that he at least acted alone.. what sort of guy autistic retard like him could kill 35 people with such precision
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: even in 'carry states', the list of public locations where such is forbidden, is quite long.
mircea_popescu: cazalla> i'd much rather put 2 in their chest and compost em << why ? you're supposed to shoot out the knees/shoulders, and why wouldn't you ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Really only holds when locales in question are california and "New York"
Hasimir: remember that those ppl weren't used to a world where guns were common enough to worry about
cazalla: mircea_popescu, how would i know what to put what where when we can't have weapons here to begin with :\
mircea_popescu: and now we come full circle to the problem
mircea_popescu: yes, tumours.
mircea_popescu: not only on the gun. on the world too.
Hasimir: and I imagine it's much like the more recent massacre in Norway
Vexual: guns were very much more common here before howards decree
Hasimir: with that other retard ... what was his name?
cazalla: batman?
Hasimir: the one who shot all those kids
cazalla: anakin?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Illinois was compelled by courts to offer "carry" on a basis where basically al non-felon comers are welcome
Hasimir: heheh
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142347 << it's by no means certain the keys being publicly visible is intentional.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:26:00; Hasimir: alright, assume you're right then, what do they gain by doing this in a way that can be found by regular(-ish) geeks?
Hasimir: fair point
mircea_popescu: that's one theory (published as such in an article iirc). another theory hanbot came up with earlier in log, and i've been thinking about.
BingoBoingo: So the Celosia already challenging the yellow heirloom rose for fastest boner in the front garden.
Hasimir: Breivik, Anders Breivik, that fuckwit
mircea_popescu: indeed, for all we know these keys were used in some sort of process, and a few accidentally leaked.
mircea_popescu: we don't know enough atm to call on this
Hasimir: that we definitely agree on ...
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's not even terribly clear HOW to correctly classify these keys.
BingoBoingo: <Hasimir> that we definitely agree on ... << Is punative sodomy
mircea_popescu: there seem to be 2-3 different categories but they can be reconstructed in multiple approaches with different elements.
mircea_popescu: which is why running the whole shebang is important - we need more members to attempt a classification
Hasimir: has anyone tried deliberately making/breaking a key like this?
mircea_popescu: which imo is the only sane way to proceed here.
Hasimir: them
mircea_popescu: Hasimir Apocalyptic was doing some work on this.
mircea_popescu: more work always welcome.
Hasimir: cool
Vexual: yep, the cops went and took every registered repeater
Hasimir: if they're encryption subkey bits then maybe it's from backfired attempts to segregate the cert key from the subkeys ...
Hasimir: maybe
mircea_popescu: so far the only seriously excluded hypothesis is "bit rot".
mircea_popescu: anything else, pretty much may be.
Hasimir: bits don't rot, they flip
mircea_popescu: for all we know this is a not yet documented numeric field breakthrough
mircea_popescu: Hasimir bitrot = "changes in data due to the substrate rather than activity"
Hasimir: I know, I was being facetious
BingoBoingo: Math breakthrough/phd thesis seems most likely atm
Hasimir: been awake for a while ...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no fucking way srsly.
mircea_popescu: i have had enough shockers for a year
mircea_popescu: and it's barely may.
Hasimir: BingoBoingo, no, they'd've published by now
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Looking at there being a pattern at all... Moar shockers!!!
Hasimir: unless it's on jstor ...
mircea_popescu: Hasimir he doesn't mean [i take it] that someone was doing research which involved these keys. he was responding to me saying that for all we know, this is a property OF NUMBERS somehow
BingoBoingo: Hasimir: Nah, some poor motherfucker could be Dr. Motherfucker if only they didn't sign with an "Intelligence" agency
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> Hasimir he doesn't mean [i take it] that someone was doing research which involved these keys. he was responding to me saying that for all we know, this is a property OF NUMBERS somehow << Yes
Hasimir: ah ... kk
mircea_popescu: the odds of which... gimme a break.
BingoBoingo: I think someone stuck their dick in numbers and made this pattern possibru
decimation: 281479271743489 (the common exponent) = 65537*641*6700417
BingoBoingo: !up AdrianoOliveira
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:38:32; Hasimir: BingoBoingo, somewhere I have a log of a PM with that guy who we later learned was the undercover agent going after silk road v1
BingoBoingo puclished front yart encounter with two sweaty feds
mircea_popescu: decimation yes. and notice 641 was a factor in the modulus i quoited above
decimation: yeah. interesting.
Hasimir: having trouble with deedbot atm
mircea_popescu: !up deedbot-
mircea_popescu: just say deedbot- url
trinque: how so
deedbot-: accepted: 1
Hasimir: woohoo
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142381<< the other half being that ancient training of us politicians where "every question is an opportunity to rehash your agenda". and so... even if nothing else is said, repeating the "Erryone must upgrade" mantra is like buying ibm. won't get you fired.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 22:38:46; ascii_field: mod6: they are so accustomed to the illiteracy of the general public, that they are entirely unprepared for folks with half a clue.
mircea_popescu: Hasimir wd.
Hasimir: does it only work in channel or via pm too?
decimation: The WA-agreed definition for ?intrusion software? is proposed to be added to § 772.1 of the EAR. The definition also includes a Note that describes some items not included as ?intrusion software,?e.g., hypervisors, debuggers or Software Reverse Engineering (SRE).
trinque: Hasimir: doing it here is nice for the logs, but it works both places.
BingoBoingo: Someone understand wassenar to do a qntra piece?
Hasimir: cool
Hasimir: wassenar, god, I still want to bury that fucking thing
decimation: ^ usg is proposing to implement a treaty (purely via executive fiat) to ban the export of 'intrusion software'
decimation: (unless you get a license and permission from usg of course)
Hasimir: decimation, they've been at it through wassenar for nearly 2 decades now
Hasimir: I first wrote about it in '97 or '98
mircea_popescu: eh, who cares about the us anymore, not like they have the edge in crypto
decimation: not even crypto related
mircea_popescu: what's next, somalia won't export laptops ?
mircea_popescu: decimation foss is fundamentally immune to this bs, and who uses ms hypervisor
mircea_popescu: !up Panasonic
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, but individuals aren't
mircea_popescu: hey asc, there comes your fab.
mircea_popescu: Hasimir individuals are mobile.
decimation: it all comes down to "get a note from stalin"
Hasimir: some are, hopefully enough
Hasimir: or do a satoshi
mircea_popescu: Hasimir you see how your position here contradicts your earlier stated position re guns ? :)
BingoBoingo seriously wants some fresh wassenar news for the qntra
mircea_popescu: apparently everyone holds the same beliefs when it comes to things they care about, and the other set for everything else.
mircea_popescu: which... is fine :)
decimation: wanna build an aircraft? fly an r/c plane? put 'intrusion software' on your website? get a note from stalin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00028614 = 2.5753 BTC [+]
Hasimir: ah, but I'm not against guns, just against them being the prime motivator for whatever
Hasimir: they're a tool, like any other
Hasimir: unfortunately often wielded by tools too
Hasimir: with a high percentage of said tools also having badges
BingoBoingo: Guns need no badges, just oil
Hasimir: case in point, that url posted here earlier of the cops who lobbed a flash-bang at a baby
BingoBoingo: C&R Yugo SKS has a lot of pluses
decimation: mircea_popescu: " foss is fundamentally immune to this bs" < not clear. however I suspect usg would not want to try to stick someone posting foss - because the courts would likely find that this kind of regulation would contradict the first amendment
BingoBoingo: WHatever all *nix are US legal by 2nd amendment
decimation: and note this is a regulation, not a law
Hasimir: BingoBoingo, that was Bernstein's argument
decimation: Hasimir: yes and it was successful as I recall
Hasimir: I thought it settled before it got far enough to set precedent
decimation: right, which is why usg isn't going to test it again
Hasimir: except for defcad
Hasimir: oh cool
decimation: eh those defcad guys are just attention whores
decimation: what has usg done against them?
Hasimir: true, but the case might be interesting
BingoBoingo: Cody and Clitler have a back and forth
decimation: "Pursuant to 127.1 of the ITAR, it is unlawful to export any defense article or technical data for which a license or written approval is required without first obtaining the required authorization from the DDTC. Please note that disclosing (including oral or visual disclosure) or tranferring technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or abroad, is considered an export under 120.17 of the ITAR."
decimation: I'm not sure whatever came of this
mircea_popescu: <Hasimir> ah, but I'm not against guns, just against them being the prime motivator for whatever << not the point. earlier when guns were being discussed you said " I've never seen any religion avoid going to a bad place", which yes is a valid point. but when it comes to something you actually know/care about, suddenly it';s not nearly as appealing, as good a point as it may be.
mircea_popescu: decimation moreover, you can just pgp me the code and i'll publish it.
mircea_popescu: now it's been exported, samizdat style.
BingoBoingo: !s shovel ak
assbot: 5 results for 'shovel ak' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=shovel+ak
decimation: they are trying the same argument as bernstein
decimation: "Defendants? censorship of Plaintiffs?speech, and the ad hoc, informal and arbitrary manner in which that scheme is applied, violate theFirst, Second, and Fifth Amendments to the United States Constitution."
Hasimir: decimation, yeah, I thought that was what you were talking about ...
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, it's always a fine line to walk between being passionate and religiously devoted ...
mircea_popescu: and the line a lot more visible in topics you care about enough to study in detail..
decimation: mircea_popescu: of course, but that would give ground for usg to attempt to throw you in jail
mircea_popescu: decimation how would they ever know ?
mircea_popescu: they don't even know whom to jail for the most recent leak on trilema.
decimation: someone has the privkey
Hasimir: well, yes, because you're looking more closely
mircea_popescu: decimation sure. so ?
mircea_popescu: Hasimir exactly.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --buttchina
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure (1 more message)
decimation: it will be interesting to see what the court rules on this
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market buttchina
mircea_popescu: jurov: heh seems there will be leaks.b-a.link soon << nb, nb
gribble: BTCChina BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 236.32941, Best ask: 236.334255, Bid-ask spread: 0.00484, Last trade: 236.327795, 24 hour volume: 16115.88970000, 24 hour low: 234.748325, 24 hour high: 237.342015, 24 hour vwap: 235.934384743
mircea_popescu: i like cryptome but they have too much shit
decimation: I suspect usg will withdraw because they don't want the court to rule that thier little export regulation house of cards is unconstitutional
decimation: it provides jobs, see
BingoBoingo watching asciilifeform's suggested movie
mircea_popescu: depends. they didn't withdraw the obamacare taxnontax
decimation: yeah but that's because obama would have personally lost face
decimation: obama can pretend he doesn't even know what these people are talking about
mircea_popescu: Hasimir: cool, will do << for the record, this non-readable dump of text stuff is annoying.
decimation: at any rate, the pro-gun lobby in the us is quite strong and well funded, it generally levels political opposition
mircea_popescu: if you must include blobs, include them apart from whatever it is you're deed-ing
BingoBoingo: Also in USia Nagant, SKS, and other curios with bayonets already mounted ++
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 23:31:13; cazalla: trinque, at least you have the option not to vote.. i usually find myself rediscovering my religious roots on election day which exempts me from wasting my time.. why Hasimir would volunteer to waste even more of his time though, i can't figure that one
mircea_popescu: what is this, iran ?
Hasimir: !up deedbot-
Hasimir: guess not
BingoBoingo: OMG asciilifeform movie night
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