mod6: ah, sure. makes sense.
mod6: will run tonight.
ave1: Concratulations on the most pantsuits solution: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783596
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 23:19 mod6: Alright, the Bitcoin Foundation has been discussing all day about using funds to support the bbisp. We are ready to make that commitment.
mod6: lol pantsuits?
ave1: Now if it is a success, we have this powerfull *foundation* (with rules and bylaws etc etc)
ben_vulpes: thanks, ave1
ben_vulpes: remind me of what these rules and bylaws are again?
ave1: If it is a failure, no one is to blame
ben_vulpes: how does that follow from my and mod6 personal responsibility for everything the foundation does
ben_vulpes: what, we release a trb that steals your coins and somehow nobody is to blame? get real
lobbes: yeah ave1, I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. Foundation is two guys who each have a distinct identity that can be impaled by the forum's punishment gazette at any time. I fail to see the pantsuit properties of the solution
ave1: color me embarrassed and properly chastised
ave1: I seem to have tripped over the name *foundation*
ave1: I hereby apologise to lord mod6
ave1: I hereby apologise to lord ben_vulpes
ave1: I will reread the charter and all other relevant documents
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783587 << damn. Well, while I'm not opposed to having lobbesbot take over jhvh1 functionality, I still have much in the hopper already (e.g. getting archive bulk-download into production). Hell, by the time I get to it I may wake to my own heathen vpsen assassinated ;/
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 22:16 shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783582 <<< lobbes this may be something you and I might discuss you overtaking, since I likely am not going to be able to bring back jhvh1 with current isp woes, etc.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783593 << I think I'm in a similar boat as you, but I've just been lucky not to run into the kraken (http://trilema.com/2018/experimental-results/#selection-343.191-347.68). My luck will run out eventually though.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 22:22 shinohai: eulora and trilema have funding that shinohai does not. Might move it to home box, remains to be seen.
diana_coman: while searching for something else, I found the answer to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1776243 ; it's in the logs, at http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-21#1616384
a111: Logged on 2018-01-25 17:25 mircea_popescu: hmm, where the hell is the place where i say the father's responsibility to his daughter is to shove a pound of raw prime beef down her throat every day and naught else ?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-21 22:44 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes speaking of house, the BEST THING father can do for his daughter, aged 9 to 19, is make sure she has abundant, clean protein available. no meal without salmon, fine beef, shrimp, pump her full of 100g of protein a day.
diana_coman: mod6, mind giving a bit more detail regarding the business+technical side?
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/asfixion/ << Trilema - A[s]fixion
mircea_popescu: gmorning #trilema
mircea_popescu wasn't going to read the logs ; but then hanbot insisted. all the better.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i'm not against you taking over ; but mind that as you also mention, BingoBoingo 's problem wasn't lack of access to capital (i dunno why this keeps being the expectation, as it's scarcely yet been the case, we're drastically overcapitalized is the entire fucking problem to begin with). BingoBoingo 's problem was lack of access to middle management, and it nigh on killed him. so for this to work, that's the key element.
mircea_popescu: that aside, i don't necessarily want to be paid cash or anything ; carry the same http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-11#1783243 on the books alongside whatever you're adding via the foundation and it'll be fine.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-11 13:57 mircea_popescu: alternatively, i have no problem taking say 1.5 worth of absolutely senior convertible equity in your continuant venture, however you call it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-12#1783451 << very much that exactly. the pantsuit rides on a high and mighty horse of "oh, capitalists don't account for ALL the externalities", hence its trojan horse of "environmentalism", because mind you that people making the civilisation run haven't in their ledger of costs and benefits a line for the obscure pondfish of extinction, and this, while epsilon, IS TILL NOT ZERO!!! concerntrol
a111: Logged on 2018-02-12 19:55 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-12#1783439 << this thread puts much in perspective. In all my arguments with socialist aquaintances, it always seems like it boils down to "well, if there's failure that just means we haven't tried xyz magical configuration of policies yet!". I.e. "goal posts" can be moved ad infinitum (in their eyes, that is)
mircea_popescu: MEANWHILE, however, they have 100% unaccounted for the time externality. so basically it's a contest consisting of a guy without legs going about finding fault with people's fingers. because he's decided "legs don't count", and so as he has much better hands than the rest of those losers he should be captain of the football team.
mircea_popescu: somehow we're asked to forgive the plain fact that pantsuit's socialist paradise will NEVER come, because let's all focus on how some species got extincted for sucking bad enough to need the measure.
asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: typo in your mice, 'pard' - 'part' ?
mircea_popescu: a ty
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wb btw. i for one thought that mircea_popescu was tired of teaching his kindergarten..
mircea_popescu: no, im gonna make it a coupla times a week. and even read logs now and again.
asciilifeform: i'ma not spoil the bisp surprise tho, will wait till its new commander wakes up, speaks.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes might be able to supply middle management if he takes an active interest in this venture. But as per http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/02/13/a-summary-of-bbisp-activity/#comment-114709 I would like to see new management present at least one plan where they envision keeping the corpse warm for a month and pulling the plug if they find it unfeasible in a way that allows BingoBoingo to survive in a position no wosre than
BingoBoingo: after his recent attempt to fly to the sun.
mircea_popescu: how you hodling up ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: One day at a time. This has been good for my AA basics even if the local AA seems more cargo cult as my spanish improves.
BingoBoingo: But with the IspWish... With a mircea_popescu venture I had a good idea I was playing with a knife. I have a lot of uncertainty what a mod6, ben_vulpes, alf coalition offers that mircea_popescu didn't other than padding and yet to be determined quality of middle management. If they present an escape plan it would provide a lot of comfort.
mircea_popescu: it's funny what parts turn out rotten/unreliable huh. you'd think there's nothing intrinsically orc about AA, it's a fundamental human thing, how could they botch it ?!
mircea_popescu: then you discover muslims don't know how to fuck, either, and realise that no, being an orc is a very substantial thing. it's not just foreign / neologistic items they fuck up.
mircea_popescu: they're fuckups altogether, as a substance not as a coincidental, environment-driven property.
mircea_popescu: sure as waterlillies nobody put an import tax on AA, there or anywhere else. and yet.
mircea_popescu: orc can't be honest. not because doesn't want to or anything, but because honesty requires a live intelligence.
asciilifeform: this particular observation ( mircea_popescu had a 'liars can't invent' article ) i found fascinating and tried several times to write a piece in application re particular historic charlatans , but failed to say anyffingnew
BingoBoingo: Finding someone here to do Step 5 with here was a challenge for that reason.
mircea_popescu: can't you call any of the old time folk in the us ?
BingoBoingo: I have been doing that, but for Step 5 it doesn't seem right if you can't look the other person in the eye
mircea_popescu: there is that.
BingoBoingo: Gotta have a live intelligence to reflect against, to get the relief outta being honest
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783476 << crowdsourced middle management is a rather terrible idea ; are you familiar with say the potemkin rebellion, or generally the early (properly soviet) phase of russian revolution ?
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 10:58 ave1: Hanbot and Diana_coman, I thought so too. The past couple of days has cost me a few nights sleep. My thoughts here: http://ave1.org/2018/from-the-proverbial-peanut-gallery/
mircea_popescu: quite some lulz to be had there, to fill up those sleepless nights.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783483 << the correct approach is to make up for lost time by helping us become familiar with you (in the sense of your history -- there is no other you than what you do).
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 14:26 TomServo: I'd very much like to see this endeavor succeed and would gladly offer assistance. I don't want to get out line if this discussion is for L1.
mircea_popescu: in other words, don't wait about while praying st Hilarity. put your hands on it and do.
asciilifeform: iirc fella mostly lurks, but quietly runs a trb node, obtained a FG ( but afaik not yet written any study of it, no blog yet ) , is literate tho
mircea_popescu: !#s from:mircea TomServo
a111: 173 results for "from:mircea TomServo", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea%20TomServo
a111: Logged on 2014-04-16 02:39 mircea_popescu: ;;rate TomServo 1 New blood.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> how you hodling up ? << I guess the other big lesson is that in a bit more than two months, this weekend has shown that I made at least one servicable friend here
mircea_popescu: yet i can't tell him from adam.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo teh venezoelana chick ?
asciilifeform: he had a previous name. what was it
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah, not perfect but servicable. Cuning enough to extract a decent living here outta the orcs while waiting to return to the Dental profession.
mircea_popescu: hey. you quit drinking on the couch ytou have, not on the couch you might possibly need for the purpose ; and consequently...
mircea_popescu: history. it's a wonderful thing.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783485 << "willing". asciilifeform is principally willing to stick himself into things, then delay them, and then ultimately produce some laughably inept excuse.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 14:32 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783471 << I can't speak for others, but talk (and opinions) are cheap! Only one willing to consider shouldering the post-mp burden/risk thus far has been asciilifeform.
mircea_popescu: !!up freetlas
deedbot: freetlas voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783521 << these aren't really distinct. you either lease boxes or else you http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-12#1783389 ; however you call it is not relevant, "vps", "shared hosting", "virtualization", "cloud", there is no distinction between these.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 16:08 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Another higher margin activity which can be marketed is good old fashioned shared hosting.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-12 16:42 mircea_popescu: "if mp built his back-to-back toilet, how could you ~using software only, mind!~ ensure the piss of his slavegirls doesn't mix ?"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783525 << the problem is not really the bw in the sense of a limitation, can get as much installed as you want. the prices he's paying there are not terrible for what he gets.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 16:40 ben_vulpes: phf: yeah i rolled IVA into that number, is that wrong for some reason?
BingoBoingo: The bandwidth cost if the pipe is anything close to filled is comprable to Brazil where they bill bandwidth off the pipe on a percentage transfer scheme and beats Asia where they bill extortionately for data that crosses borders
mircea_popescu: (this is the deep, and political meaning of the rowhammer class of attacks : it has rendered amazon's business entirely worthless ; much like basic physics make tesla be a paper-only usg venture, so now the last remaining flagship. all hopes now pinned on googles artificial "intelligence" [and i guess "quantum" wank].)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo something like that.
mircea_popescu: but yes, the fundamental reason i didn't say no to uy (in preference of say, hk) is specifically that asia has a bw problem.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783540 << people all over the world manage to acquire arbitrary fiat to pay for their whatever, rents. they'll manage to acquire the bitcoin, similarily.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 17:40 asciilifeform: as far as i can see, there is a shortage of heathens who have any btc to spend to begin with. (much less who want to spend it on a vps)
BingoBoingo: It is what also killed Chile. Pacific coastline is worthless for undersea cables
mircea_popescu: this is a not-negotiable point, bitcoin is the currency of the republic, and payments will be made in it. let allcomers figure out how to buy the bitcoin they absolutely need.
mircea_popescu: but their absolute need for bitcoin is in any case a more fundamental matter than their physical existence.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783585 << continuing on this discussion (not so as to improperly call asciilifeform 's usual dithery blather such ; but for the record, that a discussion was at least ~attempted~) : s.mg boardroom eventually decided yesterday to employ a format for the pre-padded rsa messages. it will consist of [F][random bits][message].
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 22:06 diana_coman: in other issues: rfc on oaep for tmsr, see http://trilema.com/2017/tmsr-rsa-spec-extremely-early-draft/#comment-124596
mircea_popescu: in this scheme, F is an 11 byte construct, as follows : [byte, random][bytem size][bytem size][T][M][S][R][-][R][S][A]
mircea_popescu: the sizes note the message size, which is to say how many bits to lop off the end. this has specific benefits over the (deeply inept) scheme gpg currently uses ; they'll be discussed in the usual diana_coman post on the topic.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/02/shooting-outside-usg-nsa-fort-meade/ << Qntra - Shooting Outside USG.NSA Fort Meade
mircea_popescu: which brings the following point home : it's not at all http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783553 ; it's very much that the republic doesn't actually have the intellectual capacity to handle the needs of its immense capital, as of yet.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 17:54 diana_coman: in other words this can be put as: tmsr's l1 atm is not big enough yet to support an isp of its own
mircea_popescu: "not big enough" a brain, not "not big enough a stomach".
mircea_popescu: or in more pointed terms, we've been running a http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ except for brains. the reaction in the population has been comparable. it turns out about as many people have brains as girls have tits. and they're about as intellectually useful, too!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783607 << speaking of which, i guess it can't hurt to mention SCIENTIFIC STUDIES! http://trilema.com/2011/sa-bem-in-gura/
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 00:00 mod6: Happy Valentines Day, TMSR~. <3
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783834 << worse yet ( or better?? ) i do not even have 'blather' to add to this, i never solved yet the 'padding' problem at all.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 15:09 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783585 << continuing on this discussion (not so as to improperly call asciilifeform 's usual dithery blather such ; but for the record, that a discussion was at least ~attempted~) : s.mg boardroom eventually decided yesterday to employ a format for the pre-padded rsa messages. it will consist of [F][random bits][message].
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783839 <-> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783559
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 15:11 mircea_popescu: which brings the following point home : it's not at all http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783553 ; it's very much that the republic doesn't actually have the intellectual capacity to handle the needs of its immense capital, as of yet.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 17:58 diana_coman: yes, how big is not a head count strictly of course; put it as how powerful if that is clearer
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783752 << don't regexp match, it's liable to come to the same sort of result in all future applications also.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 07:40 ave1: I seem to have tripped over the name *foundation*
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: since you mentioned it -- what exactly is a 'bytem' ?
mircea_popescu: my typoing byte,
mircea_popescu: the 8 fixed bytes are intended to permit future extension, if needed. there's no hard requirement they be set to the default values, user can also set them randomly if he prefers.
mod6: Good Morning!
mod6 scrolls back
asciilifeform: guten morgen mod6
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783763 << The details are in progress. We're first trying to simply keep the lights on.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 10:40 diana_coman: mod6, mind giving a bit more detail regarding the business+technical side?
mod6: PAGING jurov
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783767 << Ok thanks :] We're planning on having management of BingoBoingo ; the details are in the works.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 14:15 mircea_popescu: mod6 i'm not against you taking over ; but mind that as you also mention, BingoBoingo 's problem wasn't lack of access to capital (i dunno why this keeps being the expectation, as it's scarcely yet been the case, we're drastically overcapitalized is the entire fucking problem to begin with). BingoBoingo 's problem was lack of access to middle management, and it nigh on killed him. so for this to work, that's the key element.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783768 << Well, we figured a fresh start would be best for all involved. Although, other arrangements can be considerd too - such as customer credit if so desired.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 14:18 mircea_popescu: that aside, i don't necessarily want to be paid cash or anything ; carry the same http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-11#1783243 on the books alongside whatever you're adding via the foundation and it'll be fine.
mod6: mircea_popescu: I'd like to see S.NSA's equipment come down to .uy and be also a customer.
mod6: Wonderful. :]
mircea_popescu: mod6 if you'd rather pay cash, that's also fine. !!pay mircea_popescu .8 at your leisure
mod6: Aha, ok. Thank you, Sir.
asciilifeform: quasi-relatedly, seems like BingoBoingo has already not 1 but 2 working and synced trb nodez
asciilifeform: i somehow missed this
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It is one bitcoind instance talking outta two ips.
mircea_popescu: pretty vool.
BingoBoingo: It turns out trb doesn't bind to a port. Thusly if you change the myip parameter other boxes will talk to it on the old ip out of habit in addition to the new.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at the risk of pedantry , it binds indeed to a port, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp?v=makefiles#1174 , BUT! , does not bind ~to one ip~ , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp?v=makefiles#1206
asciilifeform: prolly oughta be fixed.
BingoBoingo: The pedantry in this case is appreciated.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: congrats incidentally on uncovering the must-fix-itude of this
mircea_popescu: not so clear why it needs to be fixed ?
BingoBoingo: Not necessarily a must fix. We have a cheap and easy hack to fill a fuckton of ip space if necessary.
mircea_popescu: i've been usinfg it for years.
asciilifeform: i also using for years. but suppose you wanted to run two instances of trb on one box, on separate ips.
mircea_popescu: why ?
asciilifeform: (why, is separate q : perhaps a testing trb, and a classical trb ? )
mircea_popescu: the concept of separation here is meaningless.
mircea_popescu: even if you do so run two, you still want both to see the whole "pool"
asciilifeform: fact of the matter is that all reasonably well-behaved socket proggies take a config as to where to bind
asciilifeform: rather than 'bahahaha i'ma take up whole box'
mircea_popescu: apparently not.
mircea_popescu: the concept of "separation" is not useful.
asciilifeform: what's the use of plugging >1 ip addr into a box, if all the proggies get served on all of'em
mircea_popescu: that the heathens can't discern how many boxes
mircea_popescu: strictly, STRICTLY that.
asciilifeform: but in this case , observe, they ~can~
mircea_popescu: you didn't.
BingoBoingo: Only because it has been mentioned
asciilifeform: ( i didn't bother to. but eventually would notice that when one is hanging, so is other )
mircea_popescu: maybe bad switch
asciilifeform: similarly a heathen could get himself malleused and notice that both 'separate' nodes simultaneously disconnect him
BingoBoingo: Ironically when I tried to force bitcoind onto one ip through an iptables rule that did make it hang. Since I stopped trying that it hasn't hung.
asciilifeform: at any rate this is an easy patch if somebody finds a reason to patch it.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> similarly a heathen could get himself malleused and notice that both 'separate' nodes simultaneously disconnect him << At this point heathen is expending effort
BingoBoingo: Anyways patch might be to introduce a bindip= param in the .config
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783842 << BingoBoingo needs supervision and tasking at a (micro-)scale that mircea_popescu understandably has zero interest in providing. now this may be a case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-10#1783173, but if building an isp for tmsr isn't worth bleeding for i don't know what is and so this is the breach into which i intend to step.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 15:13 mircea_popescu: or in more pointed terms, we've been running a http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ except for brains. the reaction in the population has been comparable. it turns out about as many people have brains as girls have tits. and they're about as intellectually useful, too!
a111: Logged on 2018-02-10 15:16 mircea_popescu: i'll be here an hour later. so will be here the fact the latter approach is well known and THOROUGHLY documented to cause shocking failure in otherwise well meaning, intelligent and respectable kids. that's ~the whole history of early bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: so good for you.
mircea_popescu: wasn't this your previous employment also, iirc ?
mircea_popescu: how bad can things possibly turn out.
ben_vulpes: ave1 seems to think i'll need a new key
ben_vulpes: but i dunno about that
mircea_popescu: you do ?
ben_vulpes: oh i'm just ribbing him for last night
mircea_popescu: if you're a smart guy, you just use this to prop castle ben_vulpes into existence. you two need a place to confer, and it doesn't properly belong here unless there's some kind of larger problem, so for day to day ops... you gotr a fodder.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It was the thought behind suggesting ben_vulpes for that role here, after the results of send a Librarian to South America... some decisions probably gotta get more conservative http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783781
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 14:27 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes might be able to supply middle management if he takes an active interest in this venture. But as per http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/02/13/a-summary-of-bbisp-activity/#comment-114709 I would like to see new management present at least one plan where they envision keeping the corpse warm for a month and pulling the plug if they find it unfeasible in a way that allows BingoBoingo to survive in a position no wosre than
TomServo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783801 << Understood. Blog is on the short list.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 14:45 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783483 << the correct approach is to make up for lost time by helping us become familiar with you (in the sense of your history -- there is no other you than what you do).
TomServo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783810 << Coincidentally, this is my real name, aha. Which is also on the list, getting new key under real name.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 14:49 mircea_popescu: yet i can't tell him from adam.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/jpIIm << possible qntra material. usg excommunicates-from-usd 2nd largest bank of latvia for disobedience
asciilifeform: '...institutionalized money laundering as a pillar of the bank’s business practices. Illicit financial activity at the bank includes transactions for parties connected to UN-designated entities, some of which are involved in North Korea...' etc etc
ben_vulpes: i have one 1U slot open in my next courier run to .uy, if anyone wants their machine couriered down speak NOW or i'm going to fill it with a box of my choice
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: also hilarious was the wank in pantsuit news recently about omfg nk made so much money evading sanctions and who would evade sanctions!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this 1 slot, this is after 2 (of 3 queued) snsa crates ?
ben_vulpes: well you've got the 1 machine that's ready to ship right now, dulap yhes? and then of the 2 remaining diskless gotta a) get disk in 'em and b) get mircea_popescu to okay their installation
ben_vulpes: so it's 1 slot after 1 of 3 s.nsa machines; let's fill it with another s.nsa machine.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you ordered these boxes from asciilifeform and then threw hands up over the whole thing; still want them disked and racked any preference on which?
asciilifeform: 1 (dulap) disked; other 2 want disks ( can be filled within 2-3 days after mp writes in re what he wants in'em )
ben_vulpes: so asciilifeform you see why i'm advertising the slot?
asciilifeform: and additionally if he wants FGs in the 2, how many in each ( the max that fits comfortably is 2 ) , and they must then be subtracted from the inventory.
asciilifeform: !!up jurov_moving
deedbot: jurov_moving voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: ohai jurov
asciilifeform: dare i to ask, where'ya moving to, jurov_moving , and from where ?
jurov_moving: Bought a house for btc back in october, this week we're finally moving.
asciilifeform: aa neat
ben_vulpes: settled in btc even?
ben_vulpes: what a time to be alive
ben_vulpes: hey would you be so kind as to push 3.3 btc of foundation funds to mod6's deedbot account?
jurov_moving: Yes, will try to get to my wallet asap. Please make signed request, btw.
ben_vulpes: ty jurov_moving
ben_vulpes: jurov_moving: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1DTwp/?raw=true
lobbes: Congrats on house jurov_moving
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783926 << I'd say this one is more of a personal preference. I guess if you're going to start fresh now would be a good time, but personally I've never seen "handle=realname" as so important as to warrant breaking wot continuity.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 17:37 TomServo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783810 << Coincidentally, this is my real name, aha. Which is also on the list, getting new key under real name.
lobbes: Can always just state realname in logs/blog and point to it when asked. (speaking of which, I realize I never have done this. So, for the logs, my real name is Eric Benevides)
TomServo: lobbes: Continuity break? As I understood there was a (perhaps annoying to trinque) process for renewing keys.
ben_vulpes: TomServo: you're talking about updating the nonsense "name" field on your kochrsa key?
TomServo: ben_vulpes: I'm talking about changing my irc handle, such as yourself.
asciilifeform: a number of folx changed handles, it doesn't break anything
TomServo: Wouldn't a FG powered kochrsa be preferred over no FG?
ben_vulpes: what do *you* prefer, TomServo
TomServo: That would be my preference, but if you're telling me there is no benefit in it, I wouldn't bother.
lobbes: For some reason I had the delusion that handle and key were inexorably linked in deedbot. I stand corrected
lobbes: So I guess only "breakage" here would be in log only, which wouldn't be a breakage at all to those paying attention
ben_vulpes: TomServo: not saying no benefit, would actually be a great thing to do and write up: "so you want to fuckgoats your gpg"
trinque: there is no process for changing the key-nick relationship other than asking me pretty please
trinque: and the volume of these does not merit automation, and there are significant downsides to automating it.
trinque: wise folks will pick both a nick and key they can live with.
asciilifeform: fwiw i never felt any urge to change nick. it is short enuff and if someone laughs at it it does me no harm. i sign my posts with human name fwiw.
TomServo: I think a new key is neccessary in my case and figured if changing nicks, that'd be the time.
TomServo: ben_vulpes: Surprised this has not been done. I'll add to the (geological!) list.
trinque: ah, in which case can just register it
TomServo: trinque: and forego any existing ratings?
trinque: well, I open that up to the forum. they rated "TomServo" with key K1. TomServo comes along and demonstrates to me that he controls both K1 and K2, and wants to transfer ratings to K2 under $newNick.
TomServo: Perhaps I misremember, didnt' asciilifeform renew a key and maintain ratings?
asciilifeform: TomServo: i still have same modulus as when first tuned in
asciilifeform: no fewer than 3 times submitted 'updated' gpg pub with new date ( finally got tired of this, put in a null date )
trinque: TomServo: I have so far made an exception for the fig-leaf expiration field, with the understanding that this exception goes away when P
trinque: they're not of the same form though; this is "trinque is now trusted to do arbitrary swaps between keys and ratings"
trinque: and I'm dim on wanting to make that a "feature"
TomServo: Makes sense.
trinque: undermines that you are *THAT MODULUS*
asciilifeform: trinque: imho it would be reasonable for you to charge something, for the labour of modulus swap
trinque: isn't the labor involved
trinque: it's what the meaning of holding a particular key is.
TomServo: exception goes away, meaning folks are generally expected to make a new key when P exists?
trinque: oughta be able to import parameters neh?
trinque: I pgpdump the db and extract them on my end, seamless transition
trinque: TomServo: not saying people are expected to do any particular thing yet
asciilifeform: i for one intend to retire the modulus i made on kochian prng.
trinque: that's what "open that up to the forum" means
trinque: TomServo: how will folks that rated you under one nick and key know that I (hypothetically) moved your ratings to another nick and key
trinque: I think when you start enumerating those kinds of cases, there are many, and it's the sort of systemd hair we're familiar with.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
trinque: I am now damned to manage every exception
asciilifeform: trinque: consider one possible cut of the knot : people to rate moduli, not nicks
asciilifeform: ( i.e. the pov that nick is merely a convenient method of referring to a key . )
trinque: I'm clearly leaning towards that they rate keys, yes
asciilifeform: it seems to me to be The Right Thing
asciilifeform: nick is clothes worn by a key.
trinque: indeed. and moving them to another meaningless. your friends like you, they'll rate you again.
trinque: if not, what was the point of the rating? a merit badge?
asciilifeform: well the friends who still live.
trinque: can keep the historic key too and tell the grandkids remember when
asciilifeform: ( there was an old mp thread tho, about this, where he convincingly argued that only live people matter in re ratings )
trinque: there's also the interesting question of what wot ratings look like in a gossipd world. yes, I will still warehouse my repository of wot data, but I'd also be happy to chatter ratings to other nodes.
trinque: that can either be a simple protocol, or a complex one with key history and whatever other nonsense gets dreamed up.
trinque: I think simple's right.
asciilifeform: whatever else is done -- simple protocols are best.
asciilifeform: ( but trick is, simple ~when seen as a whole~, rather than 'html-simple' where the building block is simply very dumb and to do anything even slightly complicated on it, requires herculean effort )
asciilifeform: think back to the 'commonlisp vs scheme' wars.
trinque: indeed, only so simple as completeness allows.
asciilifeform: relatedly i burned much time on graphics-generators but in the end threw all out, ended up writing ch10's physical diagrams in ordinary htm
asciilifeform: ( as painted 'table's)
mod6: The band is all back together!
mod6: trinque: do I need to do anything to get setup for jurov's tx to my deedbot acct? I've never set it up ...
lobbesbot: jurov: Sent 1 day, 0 hours, and 6 minutes ago: <lobbes> plox to ping mod6 once ya get the chance
jurov: Hello. Looking up how to obtain BB's address.
mod6: I'm not sure if I need to setup anything for my deedbot acct.
jurov: Or I must deposit to my wallet first?
mod6: I dunno either :D
jurov: !!deposit 3.3
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/N1mF2/?raw=true
mod6: Whoops, sorry. Don't know who's is who's.
mod6: trinque: halp.
jurov: Perhaps i can send to BB's address directly? I don't like mixing up foundations funds with my own deedbot wallet anyway.
mod6: lemme find it here...
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783949 << I think if you can somehow get it into my account, then I can have whomever invoice me or what not.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 17:58 ben_vulpes: hey would you be so kind as to push 3.3 btc of foundation funds to mod6's deedbot account?
ben_vulpes: mod6: if you make a deposit call, can you give jurov the address and amount to send?
jurov: I know Bingo's 1Ewe... addy but he best confirm he still has the privkey
jurov: Or whatever addy ben_vulpes/mod6 send me signed, ofc.
ben_vulpes: jurov: hang on, deposit to mod6's account
mod6: ben_vulpes: I probably can later indeed. I've never used this before, need trinque to help here.
ben_vulpes: mod6: run !!deposit 3.3 , decrypt it and send the results to jurov
mod6: Alright. I can do that a bit later.
ben_vulpes: jurov will then send the exact quoted amount to that addr and bob's your aunt we should be fine
mod6: Probably will have to wait until tomorrow for Jurov to make the actual tx since it's probably getting late there for him.
ben_vulpes: we can run it async, just paste him the deets encrypted
jurov: I'm ready to do it now
ben_vulpes: jurov: i'm guessing mod6 is away from his keys
ben_vulpes: i'll do it, standby one
ben_vulpes: !!deposit 3.3
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/finGQ/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: !!v D2AD376C41204078EEB33F217EBD9010D5255241FF9402E4EC6928672DD9556C
jurov: ben_vulpes: got it
mod6: Thanks guys!
BingoBoingo: And irony of monkey fucking ironies. Guess who has a local bank account today. BRB, tengo una leccion de Español (not a euphamism).
mod6: Omg, YAY!
jurov: any other urgent demands on Teh Treasury?
jurov: congrats BingoBoingo!
jurov: Aaand, how actually the BISP deal works? Is the Foundation now owner?
deedbot: ben_vulpes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/m8tFP/?raw=true
mod6: jurov: We're working out the details on that. Good question though.
ben_vulpes: ty jurov
ben_vulpes: neat shit trinque
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/dead-maze-the-game/ << Trilema - Dead Maze, the game
mod6: !~calc (4000000*.06) / 60 / 60 / 24
mod6: !Qcalc (4000000*.06) / 60 / 60 / 24
lobbesbot: mod6: 2.77777777778
mod6: asciilifeform: Started that perf test lastnight @ about 12am. should take ~2.7 days to complete.
mod6: at midnight tonight, one whole day will have gone by.
mod6: 1.7 days remaining.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/the-ladies-man/ << Trilema - The Ladies Man