mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hanbot was teh witness << aha. i concurr it is a system, she was able to decipher it.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/08/23/the-fringe-edmonton-2017/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The Fringe Edmonton 2017
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 03:03 asciilifeform: mod6..? ben_vulpes? mike_c ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-23 03:20 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xwwuJ/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: i thought i sent you an answer.
mircea_popescu: hm. 1 sec.
mircea_popescu: nono, ty
ben_vulpes: wowee, somehow uber racked up 9kusd in losses on each subprime vehicle lease
ben_vulpes: ("in other altcoins...")
ben_vulpes: "nobody could have predicted that the auto companies cannibalizing sales through financing and aggressive lease practices would blow depreciation rates sky high"
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: izzat ljr?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes aha
ben_vulpes: his hands are so teeeeny
shinohai: !!up runsegshet
runsegshet: Thanks for the +up
runsegshet: Was hoping segshet never got activated, is now an altcoin?
runsegshet: am I going to get robbed
shinohai: It is simple enough to *not* use it at all.
runsegshet: But it's still the real Bitcoin?
runsegshet: no hard fork
diana_coman: runsegshet getting robbed is a personal thing so nobody can answer that for you other than yourself; as to hoping and the more general case: ditch hope, take action;
runsegshet: miners going to spend to themselves and steal segshit coins?
runsegshet: this is what I'm worried about
runsegshet: I want to take action to safe keep my bitcoin, but dont know technicals to not be segwit tokens
diana_coman: runsegshet, so learn; run your own node keeping your bitcoin; start perhaps from http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html
diana_coman: !!up runsegshet
diana_coman: !!key runsegshet
deedbot: Not registered.
diana_coman: even better: start by registering a key in any case
diana_coman: runsegshet, ^
diana_coman: runsegshet, moreover, I suppose as an easy/quick solution you could even simply transfer your bitcoin into ECu in Eulora - I guess it is the lowest effort option to keep and even use btc at this moment; e.g. http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=Ecu
runsegshet: I'd be trading digital gold for what appears to be electronic copper in a video game
diana_coman: how do you figure one is digital and the other one electronic? one is gold, the other one copper?
diana_coman: but yes: you need to read and figure out whether it works for you or not, no escape there
runsegshet: Thanks for the insight
diana_coman: read the s.mg category on trilema re eulora
runsegshet: dont want to sell for usdt or fiat or altshits like litecoin until this blows over
runsegshet: I can't just send to paper wallets and be safe?
runsegshet: like the good old days
runsegshet: Also is core hard forked from TRB? How would one be able to mine TRB instead?
runsegshet: thanks for all the insight
runsegshet: sorry for not having much technical knowledge
diana_coman: !!up runsegshet
diana_coman: runsegshet, read and ask more specific questions if any; in other words: learn; there's no way anybody else will simply do the work *for* you - if they do it, it will be for them and so you can at most...hope; poor path that one, even if very crowded indeed; if you want to hold bitcoins, you need to figure out the "technical" details too, no other way around it
diana_coman: and while you are still around: register a key here because otherwise nobody will spend more time with some random nick that can't be in any way assigned to any sort of "you" at all
diana_coman: well, some might of course, but it's again a matter of...hoping they will, sort of thign
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702759 << eventually this will necessarily happen, yes. "segwit" transactions are stored on the bitcoin network as "anyone can spend", so eventually miners will unroll the segwit chain. how soon is not easily predicted (which is why the idea is stupid/usg-like, introduces impredictability in the currency)
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 12:42 runsegshet: miners going to spend to themselves and steal segshit coins?
mircea_popescu: just don't accept "segwit" payments, and don't use their scamware, you'll be fine.
mircea_popescu: !!up runsegshet
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702761 << run trb. follow mod6 's instructions, it's a relatively painless half hour install on most any sane linux.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 12:42 runsegshet: I want to take action to safe keep my bitcoin, but dont know technicals to not be segwit tokens
mircea_popescu: mod6 so fucking epic you got that ready so we can just link noobs. good work man.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702770 << the only advantage eulora has is the low friction, there's no cost to transfer ecu from one player to another. it costs about 5 bux to move btc on the bitcoin chain. if your holdings are small enough, this matters.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 13:00 runsegshet: I'd be trading digital gold for what appears to be electronic copper in a video game
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 13:03 runsegshet: I can't just send to paper wallets and be safe?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702779 << core hasn't yet hardforked from trb. their "segwit" thing is a "soft fork". basically they intend to make everyone's transactions be blockchain messages instead of actual transactions.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 13:12 runsegshet: Also is core hard forked from TRB? How would one be able to mine TRB instead?
mircea_popescu: ie right now, if i want to spend from 1address to 1youraddress i end up composing a transaction that gets mined (emplaced in a block). it's about 250 bytes worth of 1address signs transaction x where it got coin, and hash of 1youyraddress etc.
mircea_popescu: their idea is to INSTEAD just store 16 bytes worth of that transaction's HASH.
mircea_popescu: this works in the sense that whoever has the hash AND the transaction that was hashed can prove that indeed that transaction was hashed (it's how http://deedbot.org/ works to notarize documents for instance).
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, hashes are by definition unreversable, and they no longer propagate transactions. so i wouldn't know your transaction from adams' or "your" pile of nonsense from another's.
mircea_popescu: basically a very drastic reduction in quality of life, fit for a socialist empire. something on the level of "hey mr, you have this contract to have two cartons of milk delivered each mon, wed, fri and sun. how about we deliver JUST THE CARDBOARD, empty ? it will be 5% cheaper and you can have them every day instead!"
mircea_popescu: typical soviet americana.
diana_coman: no, no, just the image of the cardboard; now on your mobile/ipad too!
mircea_popescu: lol right. they show it to you on THEIR facebook page, please follow them
asciilifeform not wholly off subject, was looking into what using sram for main memory would cost. turns out -- surprise? -- approx same as what dram cost in mid-90s
mircea_popescu: marches on.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702786 << i entertain noobs/unknowns mostly because/when my answers to their questions are actually worth reading.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 13:38 diana_coman: well, some might of course, but it's again a matter of...hoping they will, sort of thign
runsegshet: thanks for the replies, will be interesting to see what happens next
asciilifeform: ( why to do this ? just as in other cases of 'i can't believe it's not X!', dram is not actually random-access -- all currently sold drams only achieve their rated speed in 'burst mode'; and from that it follows that they are only ever read to fill a cache line; and from this, trivial timing leak etc. and the joys of 'rowhammer', bonus. )
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 so fucking epic you got that ready so we can just link noobs. good work man. << thanks! no problem.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of "smart shit we don't bother to mention because everyone knows" sorta thing. this is also how/why the inept noobs that get silenced do : not worth talkingt to.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would definitely buy some sram machines.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702796 <- it's actually even download& run sort of thing and no online/keeping up to date requirement; one has to keep their key ofc, but that's about as low bar as it gets I think
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 14:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702770 << the only advantage eulora has is the low friction, there's no cost to transfer ecu from one player to another. it costs about 5 bux to move btc on the bitcoin chain. if your holdings are small enough, this matters.
mircea_popescu: take the item this line is written on -- it doesn't fucking need dram. in fact, it could be a 386.
mircea_popescu: right diana_coman
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have a draft design for the sticks already.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aren't you doing too many things at once ?
asciilifeform: ( believe or not -- nobody makes sram simms/dimms )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i ain't putting it into production yet. just sits there on hdd, lol.
asciilifeform: i still can't quite figure out why sram costs what it does
mircea_popescu: low runs prolly
asciilifeform: gotta be
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not sure what's easier, eulora install or trb install. they're very similar processes for some reason (har har)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman yeah there's also no "catching up with the chain", one can turn eulora off for five years, turn it back on (maybe have to get a new client, till we freeze that down) and be ready to go. but then again the cost of having to check the blockchain isn't THAT terrible, we bring up back new nodes all the time.
mircea_popescu: !!up runsegshet
runsegshet: TRB how to isn't truly noob proof. I have never even used Linux. I'm not qualified to run a TRB node it seems. I'm just a user who wants my BTC to remain mine
runsegshet: thanks for up, and sorry for connect spam
mircea_popescu: paper wallets will work.
mircea_popescu: understand -- there is NO safe way to operate bitcoin in windows.
mircea_popescu: windows is fundamentally unsecure-able.
mircea_popescu: linux isn't much better, practically. but there's a difference in kind, you could in principle have a secure linux machine, even if most people don't bother to. whereas the secure windows machine is a myth, like the happy feminist.
runsegshet: What about a mac? lol
mircea_popescu: possibly, if you put linux on it.
mircea_popescu has very little experience with macs. get phf or another ewxpert's opinion
runsegshet: What about hardware wallets like Ledger nano? Are those secure enough to hold TRB safe?
mircea_popescu: the one's we've seen weren't.
mircea_popescu: !#s trezor
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone cut apart one such ledger nano, so dunno
mircea_popescu: in principle a hardware wallet should be secure, because a sheet of paper (also a kind of hardware wallet) is.
mircea_popescu: but in general, people make them shitty because they're inept and in a hurry.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702832 <- aha; trouble is that people are scared of the "cost" and like any scare it is way bigger than the actual real thing; as previously mentioned I really don't see this "I can hold bitcoin without knowing /getting dirty with it" thing
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 14:57 mircea_popescu: diana_coman yeah there's also no "catching up with the chain", one can turn eulora off for five years, turn it back on (maybe have to get a new client, till we freeze that down) and be ready to go. but then again the cost of having to check the blockchain isn't THAT terrible, we bring up back new nodes all the time.
mircea_popescu: !!up PeterL
deedbot: PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
runsegshet: Ledger uses a chrome extension for the wallet... which to me seems really sketchy
mircea_popescu: doesn't sound too good.
PeterL: So I was thinking about how asciilifeform suggested generating new random numbers until you hit a prime instead of incrementing a single random number to find the next prime, and my initial guess would that generating new numbers would take a lot longer
PeterL: so I thought I would run a little experiment to check
PeterL: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kY6bd/?raw=true << turns out it is about the same amount of time
mircea_popescu: that's his point, if you have the rng it's much better quality secret primes for the same effort.
asciilifeform: PeterL: the 'cryptography komyoonity' derps didn't do it 'because slow', but because entropy-poor machine
mircea_popescu: "didn't not do it"
PeterL: well, on entropy poor machine it would be slow, wouldn't it?
mircea_popescu: PeterL trying to drive a concrete slab also slow.
mircea_popescu: entropy poor machine is definitionally not supposed to rsa
asciilifeform: upstack : hey mircea_popescu , is it time to add a 'we dun take shitcoins' warning to snsa shop page ?
mircea_popescu: just ignore the segwitolade, let them figure it out.
mircea_popescu: and let power rangers add the warnings, "our altcoin isn't universally accepted, always make sure and ask"
mircea_popescu: people who write checks instead of paying cash don't automatically expect their mom note be accepted by merchants. why would these ?
asciilifeform: might be time to automate the detection of this item tho
asciilifeform: stock trb dun help much
asciilifeform: ( gotta walk the tx upstream by hand and look for anyonecanspendolade )
mircea_popescu: um. how would trb see the tx anyway ? it dun interpret segwit
asciilifeform: recall, 'anyonecanspend', so it got spent, possibly a block or however many in the past
mircea_popescu: yeah but if it meanwhile got anchored in a proper tx it's good.
mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely sure how it would be, but anyway.
asciilifeform: 'anyonecanspend' offers easy fracturing points for 'unwinders' tho
mircea_popescu: you can't "unwind" upstream of a blockchain tx.
asciilifeform: speaking here of the ordinary way ( orphaning the chain )
mircea_popescu: let's model this.
asciilifeform tunes in
mircea_popescu: at time t in tx 1 address 1a gets coin chunk.
mircea_popescu: at time t1, via tx2, address 1a spends coin chunk on segwit chain. this appears to you and me as "1a sent coins to black hole"
mircea_popescu: at time t2, SOMEHOW (im not even sure this is possible), someone in black hole sends coin chunk back to address 1b.
mircea_popescu: tx3, through which this is done, is mined.
asciilifeform: this is not accurate picture of shitness tho
mircea_popescu: at time t3 you receive a payment from 1b, of that self-same coin chunk.
asciilifeform: it ain't 'to black hole', it's an 'anyonecanspend'
asciilifeform: ( the spendability condition is enforced by the miner cabal, promisetronically )
mircea_popescu: now at this time t3, you judge the quality of the input as always : block delta between t2 and t3.
mircea_popescu: if it's say 24 blocks, it's POSSIBLE someone undoes your tx, but not likely (needs 24 block lead to unroll the chain)
mircea_popescu: and at 124 blocks, even less likely. and so on.
mircea_popescu: make sense ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i deliberately didn't want to make any assumptions. "black box" if you prefer.
mircea_popescu is not entirely convinced the ~implementation~ of segwit as executed by the power rangers will even work. because that's what they do, it woul;dn't be the first time. or the second. it'd be like the 5th time, which is how many soft forks they did.
asciilifeform: there's a few interesting divergences from the protocol as commonly understood, in the actual clients ( esp prb ). for instance the capacity to backtrack orphan chains longer than a dozen or so is ~untested for eons
mircea_popescu: in fact, the difference between power rangers and "ethereum developers" is entirely nil, which is why the "ethereum community" is flattering itself into relevancy : they compare themselves to the power rangers, and come to the conclusion that "similar kind, dispute to be resolved by headcount".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
mircea_popescu: anyway. goat finds it very easy to not think about the gun in the drawer in the house it's not allowed to go into. and so comes to conclusion man is ~goat.
mircea_popescu: and that time man walked into goat herd, picked fattest kid, slit his throat and splashed everyone in blood was you know "never proven to have happened" hurr durr.
asciilifeform: goat will go to the soup pot still thinking of man as simply a vertical goat, 'and if the cards had fallen differently, it'd be him under the knife' etc
mircea_popescu: this has been so amply proven by the crypto exercise as to compete with darwinism.
asciilifeform: not much of a surprise tho, imho
mircea_popescu: (of course, like darwinism, there's a large mass of religious "critics" of the notion)
mircea_popescu: retrospectively notrly, no.
asciilifeform revved up a bigbloxforq node a la pete_dushenski , 'i'ma cash in my shitcoin', discovers that various goxes (e.g. 'shapeshift') dun really wanna buy so much
asciilifeform: e.g. you get eggog if you offer to sell more than a handful
asciilifeform: and that's just the gox where you can get said info in advance of actually sinking in any shitcoinz
asciilifeform: i have nfi re others
asciilifeform: ( i certainly have no interest in 'open an account...' crapola )
mircea_popescu: why, they've no disposable emails where you live ?
asciilifeform: last time i did this, it was moar sweat than worth ( they ban obvious lamermails )
mircea_popescu: heh. kinda like how the usg maintains the pretense of "value" of the usd too huh
asciilifeform: how else.
mircea_popescu: "make it more sweat than worth to rape it".
mircea_popescu: it's altcoins all the way down to fed vault!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can-do, but gotta testfire 1st.
mircea_popescu: wtf is "krw" at that.
mircea_popescu: nutty bullshit, https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/#markets is led (and mostly composed of) some unheard of "Exchange" trading bitcoin crash for "krw", and pretending like this exchange of items not worth money is worth dollars somehow. 104 mn of it, ROUNDLY like that.
mircea_popescu: so fucking totally not a case of "here's my website, i write numbers into it" you wouldn't believe.
mircea_popescu: coinmarketcap site lists "bch/krw" pairs, but if you use its own god damned "search currencies" item, it doesn't know what krw even is.
mircea_popescu: "hurr durr, let's pretend like usg-korea is a place and let's pretend it's gonna innovate and bla bla"
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz from the swamp : "The divided United States of America will unite today, sharing a cosmic event predicted by the methods and tools of science." apud Neil deGRasse TysonVerified account.
mircea_popescu: you know, random fake media soap bubble fucking-loves-"leadership" in the pantsuit sense of teh term
lobbes: All Praise Science (TM)
mircea_popescu: (that's been the big pantsuit talking point, pushed for the past week or so by teh faux news orgs : that trump "fails to lead" and that therefore and thereby all sorts of others are "filling in the void". very much in the vein of alf's prediction)
asciilifeform: solar eclipses, meritwashing mediocrities with lookup tables ever since aztec priests 'helped' quetzalcoatl spit back out the sun he swallowed
mircea_popescu: aha! isn't it funny who's talking, and what they're talking about ?
asciilifeform: which muppet was this
asciilifeform: i can't recall him from before
mircea_popescu: deGRasse TysonVerified account
mircea_popescu: he's an obama-nigglet.
asciilifeform: oh lol he's the current carlsagan .
mircea_popescu: in the sense toyota is the current bmw, sure.
asciilifeform: ( the office, as such, dates to clinton reign )
mircea_popescu: you mean the pantsuit science czar ?
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702926 <<< Likely a VERified exchange operated by Jihan Wu et all
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 15:48 mircea_popescu: nutty bullshit, https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/#markets is led (and mostly composed of) some unheard of "Exchange" trading bitcoin crash for "krw", and pretending like this exchange of items not worth money is worth dollars somehow. 104 mn of it, ROUNDLY like that.
asciilifeform: 'science' in the 'stage magic for kidz' sense
mircea_popescu: i think it dates to the Surgeon General Warning's Verifiedaccount.
mircea_popescu: shinohai aha. that was teh subtext.
mircea_popescu is totally going to stick to this format. maybe deGRasse account TysonVerified and so on.
mircea_popescu: too much BingoBoingo -esque epic lulz to pass on.
shinohai: "if BCH earns highest proof of work and highest market cap over time, it will become Bitcoin in my opinion. Same with Bitcoin Core. Same with Btc1." https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-segwit2x/2017-August/000286.html
shinohai: Erik Voorhees is such a tool
mircea_popescu: he's a typical schmuck, a la jwz. wants a comfortable existence and really, all these complicated shits scare him shitless.
mircea_popescu: see, asciilifeform, if one wants examples re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-18#1699949 then half the people present at c1 are the finest of examples!
a111: Logged on 2017-08-18 04:00 mircea_popescu: otherwise what, we'll be stuck in 2020 dealing with legacy yahoos ? noty.
mircea_popescu: take voorhees! in 2013 he was great -- not entirely retarded kid, some business experience (earned in daddy's shop, but then again, so did trump). way better than 99% of all those involved.
mircea_popescu: come 2017 ... he's barely qualified to shrem. not even on the fucking list, art all. what 99% ?
mircea_popescu: take the xapo schmuck, what's his face, the argentine "entrepreneur".
mircea_popescu: in 2013 he seemed credible. in 2017 we meanwhile found out what a fucking joke argentina is ; and this mutation exactly describes him, too.
shinohai: Oh dear Lord ... the one that puts Post-It notes outside the "Bitcoin Embassy" or what the fuck ever
mircea_popescu: take who the fuck will you take, thickasthieves ? way ahead of the pack back when the pack consisted of "neobee will save bitcoin from ???".
mircea_popescu: and so it goes, the table stakes keep ratcheting up. "hey, i'm the coolest kid in my village!" is great for while we're still talking the village.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly i wasn't alive for c1, missed out on the freakshow
mircea_popescu: and the list keeps going and going. gavin or mike hearn were (their moral turpitude aside), ~technically~ qualified to participate back in 2012.
mircea_popescu: back then the standard for technical qualification was "hey, let's put 10 bytes of txid in one point of the log and 14 in another. FUCK YOU!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we had conversations about quantum computers.
asciilifeform: in those days, asciilifeform naively -- and silently -- imagined that as soon as btc began to be worth palpable moneys, the 'big kidz' quietly hired d00dz with long, long beards, to write ada node
asciilifeform: ( 2012 or so )
mircea_popescu: i thought ada was recent-er discovery.
asciilifeform: 1st ada release was... 1982
mircea_popescu: i mean as far as you're concerned.
mircea_popescu: actually i suppose the ur-example of "washed out of bitcoin" would be http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/
asciilifeform: mno, i knew about it as a boy. but had no clue that time would come to write it with own hands
mircea_popescu: back in the days of mpoe-pr, he was the single "competitor" so to speak, ie, person at the same level. "deathandtaxes".
asciilifeform: 'if not you, then who!' (tm)(r)(su)
mircea_popescu: "You may have heard someone say something like" fucking fucktard.
mircea_popescu is now getting pissed off at conflicts long resolved through the beheading of the conflicterers. what a life.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile irl, bitcoin tx costs 5 bux at the very most. wire costs 50 bux at a minimum, plus whatever bank tacks on to that.
mircea_popescu: clearly the cheap alternative has to change!! god forbid people see the value of bitcoin to the point they're willing to pay more to use it than to use SWIFT!!! WHAT WOULD THAT DO TO THE BANKS!!!1
asciilifeform: 50bux sharp here
asciilifeform: ( interestingly, the price hasn't changed in ~decade )
mircea_popescu: nor the average wire.
asciilifeform: speaking of konsoomer wire strictly
mircea_popescu: anyway. i'm rather looking forward to the 10k usd/btc doing 1 bitcent txfees and everyone from goldman sachs to goldman sachs salivating on the side.
asciilifeform: ( i dun have an industrial )
mircea_popescu: "HOW CAN SOMEONE CHARGE FOR FINANCIAL TRANSFERS AND NOT CUT US IN!!11"
mircea_popescu: that'll be a joyous moment.
BingoBoingo: ^ win
asciilifeform: btw i suspect that even nao, the txfee is a small piece of the actual cost of moving btc
asciilifeform: ( nodes, and hands with which to maintain'em, are 'only free if you already got'em' )
mircea_popescu: as our earlier friend well pointed out.
asciilifeform: sorta how the cost of moving gold bars does not consist solely of the req'd joules to physically move'em through atmosphere
asciilifeform: but also of cost of the cannons, cannoneers, shells...
asciilifeform: barbed wire, dogs, ilsa the she-wolf, etc.
mircea_popescu: aha. part of why the whole "bitcoin tx fee" argument was so thoroughly derrided.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702835 << understand that the concept of 'mine' 100% depends on your ability to bolt 'yours' down, which may require you to expand your capacity to bolt! See also: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22it+works+if+you+work+it%22
a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 14:59 runsegshet: TRB how to isn't truly noob proof. I have never even used Linux. I'm not qualified to run a TRB node it seems. I'm just a user who wants my BTC to remain mine
asciilifeform: lobbes: folx are TO THIS DAY finding jars of au left behind by romans who thought that they 'owned it'
mircea_popescu: they owned it quite well, if it's only re-owned now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ~equally often they find cigar box of au, weimar banknotes, etc drywalled in by ww2 j00z
asciilifeform: also 'owned'.
asciilifeform: oh hey i nearly missed http://trilema.com/2011/nu-mai-faceti-upgrade-la-nimic-niciodata/#comment-122698 lulzthread somehow
mircea_popescu: "1MB doesn't can't even keep up with existing non-retail payment networks.
mircea_popescu: Going back to that coffee meme, the implied message is that 1MB is fine unless for everything else. You know substantial stuff like paying your mortgage, business deals, major capital expenditures, or paying a supplier for inventory. This just isn't the case though. Do you know anyone who pays for coffee with a bank wire? The FedWire service (run by US federal reserve) processes ~150 million bank wires annually. "
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1000000 / 255 * 6 * 24 * 365
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1000000 / 255 * 6 * 24 * 365 = 2.0611764705882353E8
mircea_popescu: o noes, bitcoion can support 200mn anually! same as fed! hurr durr not ernough space!
mircea_popescu: and no, "take the money freom these 3 accts and send to these 8 acfcounts" IS NOT ONE TRANSACTION. it's like 11.
mircea_popescu: such pile of ancient lulz we're sitting on, srsly now./
asciilifeform: !~calc 150e6 / (6*24*365)
jhvh1: asciilifeform: 150e6 / (6*24*365) = 2853.881278538813
mircea_popescu: and, of course, "that coffee meme". not http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/ but you know, "someone". because if the muppet herders don't mention mp to the muppets therefore mp won't be 1. muppet famous and 2. won't have the herders' ass.
mircea_popescu: except 1 dun work in practice, let alone 2. but hey.
asciilifeform: in other quasi-noose, here's a simple electric rng suitable for very low bit-rate application ( e.g. walletrons for sig nonce ) : small mercury tilt switch, gates clock signal to counter, and a flipflop. when the latter toggles, the counter value is forwarded to a register; every 2 shots end up vonneumanned and xor'd into the output reg.
asciilifeform: you work the device by simply passing it from hand to hand.
mircea_popescu: this is the mic'd hooker all over again
asciilifeform: not quite
asciilifeform: it isn't sensitive to noise
asciilifeform: and uses no adc
asciilifeform: ( all adc introduce artifacts. )
mircea_popescu: but temperaturew and whatever
asciilifeform: works at any temp where hg is liquid.
asciilifeform: ( and with no other change )
mircea_popescu: you want what, like a wen-ba ball basically ?
asciilifeform: this approach actually extracts the very low bit rate of entropy available from the muscle of the meat.
mircea_popescu: i guess not quite. stil, instrumented hooker.
asciilifeform: can instrument dog, or rat, for all you like.
mircea_popescu: the reason people don't fuck dog/rat is principally that woman cheaper.
asciilifeform: btw you can make this right now by attaching 2 hg tilt switches to a fg , 1 on each end ( b/w the middle and the +v pins )
asciilifeform: gnd rather
asciilifeform: middle and gnd.
asciilifeform: the only thing this method has to recommend it, is that it is utterly insensitive to environmental conditions and to variations in components.
asciilifeform: ( in this respect, it is slightly ahead of radiodecay even. )
mircea_popescu: kv-1 rng
asciilifeform: 'Прощай КВ братишка наш!!!' (tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: !~translate ru to en Прощай КВ братишка наш!!
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Farewell HF our brother!
mircea_popescu: hf ?!
asciilifeform: i think it assumed 'shortwave'
asciilifeform: короткие волны aha
mircea_popescu: this is a pretty good companion for the eggog list.
asciilifeform: hey if robotranslators worked, anglotards would be sorta like deaf folx, could get by
mircea_popescu: hf our brother.
asciilifeform: actually there's a whole subculture of '90s spectacular translator fails
mircea_popescu: there's not so much difference between google "ai" as seen here ; and lookup table mixups as seen with the original eggog.
mircea_popescu: in fact... NO DIFFERENCE.
asciilifeform: e.g. film 'diehard' ended up translated by one 'genius' to title 'умри тяжело'
asciilifeform: i.e. 'die a difficult death'
mircea_popescu: !~translate ru to en умри тяжело
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Die hard
mircea_popescu: see ?
mircea_popescu: better than "die hardly", which is what teh russian'd say :D
asciilifeform: or, more famously, a character referring to 'general motors' ends up speaking of a Генерал Моторс
mircea_popescu: (ftr i maintain this isn't even a bad translation)
asciilifeform: ( a great, presumably, prev. unknown military mind )
mircea_popescu: works in english too!
mircea_popescu: neither of these are bad translations imo.
mircea_popescu: (we have this joke in household, "General X", all the various generals.)
mircea_popescu: i'd say something like "not commonly seen in general practice" and eyes will sparkle, "oooo, General Practice!"
asciilifeform pictures the generals Electric, Motors, Dynamics, and Relativity, around a table
asciilifeform: ( there are various types, but all ~same idea )
asciilifeform: the added noise immunity you get from the analogue business end ~not being a semiconductor~ is considerable.
asciilifeform: ( hg can semiconduct but not under the conditions contemplated here )
asciilifeform: http://www.chinaxurui.net/uploads-xr/1-m/2015-04/mercury-switch-pz-103.jpg << moar common modern-day tube.
asciilifeform: phunphakt -- at one time usg considered these 'dual use item', on account of their popularity as carbomb trigger
asciilifeform: and - while we're on subj -- the naive replacement, a ball-in-pipe tilt switch, is NOT suitable for rng -- contact bounce is patterned; and oxidized contacts -- semiconduct.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4205.0, vol: 12217.27969382 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4206.9, vol: 21819.56422789 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4234.101, vol: 4993.05066671 | Volume-weighted last average: 4209.78504852
asciilifeform: quite the goxlag
asciilifeform: !~google mercury switch rng
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Mercury Tilt Switch and Reed Switch - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DEfV2jg1qeyY>; Mercury Switch | eBay: <http://www.ebay.com/bhp/mercury-switch>; RNGList - Managing Mercury Switches Found in Vehicles...: <http://www.retailcrc.org/RegGuidance/_layouts/15/listform.aspx%3FPageType%3D4%26ListId%3D%257B585E0222%252D3213%252D4F35%252DBC4B%252DC0844CB75DEE%257D%26ID%3D658835%26ContentTypeID%3D (1 more message)
asciilifeform: ^ apparently never happened yet.
asciilifeform looked in detail.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in monkeylandia, in charlottesville va : '...Police say the car was covered in dents prior and apparently hit by a bat'
asciilifeform: ( subj being the pantsuit-crunchmobile of recent fame )
asciilifeform: i'll add, though ianal, that va is -- at least on paper -- a 'castle' state
BingoBoingo: "They encircled a passing motorist in his vehicle and attacked the 20 year old motorist, attempting to remove him from his car. This lead to the motorist's Dodge Challenger2 colliding with a collection of Antifa bodies in an apparent attempt to escape." >> http://qntra.net/2017/08/antifa-terrorists-and-pantsuit-local-government-shut-down-conservative-rally-fatalities-reported/
asciilifeform: which means if the driver had a kalash, he would have been theoretically in the clear, if he had used it, right through the window
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik the discussion of the physical evidence, is noose
asciilifeform: ( i expect it will soon evaporate, however )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, the videos showed a "sea of baseball bats" (other's words) around car
asciilifeform: 'kick the dog till it bites'
mircea_popescu: guy's gonna walk.
BingoBoingo: Leading to "and apparently hit by a bat" vs, assumed piece of shit outside during hail
BingoBoingo: Very clear he's not getting convicted for murder.
BingoBoingo: Unless he signs papers himself or hired Josh Dratel
asciilifeform: they'll nail him in a 'civil' 'wrongful death' or whatever nonsense. pantsuit gets infinite lawyering for $0; d00d -- prolly already penniless
mircea_popescu: the whole "pantsuit worldview is supported by the courts" is borne out of review of pantsuit faux news sites ; not out of review of actual court cases.
mircea_popescu: dude shot an uppity black kid recently FOR being uppity recently, walked.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ain't that what the installation of 'magistrates' etc. freislers, is for
mircea_popescu: buncha priviledged white sons raped the shit out of a random poor ho, walked.
mircea_popescu: and so on.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it doesn't extend to charlottessville. it's mostly a queens and brooklyn thing.
mircea_popescu: understand, the us is big, the pantsuit few... it's not so easy.
asciilifeform: will be interesting to see
asciilifeform: iirc the last major 'walked' was in fl.
mircea_popescu: to put it another way : pantsuit illegitimacy MEANS something. this is what it means.
mircea_popescu: that when they get one over they'd better fucking advertise it well. because it's the one they get.
asciilifeform: the lever they've been using since rodneyking(tm)(r) is 'he walks, we burn $100B of city'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> iirc the last major 'walked' was in fl. << Baltimore cops walked on the "not buckling up crack dealer in van" murder charge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my guess that the guy will walk is based on the knowledge that the da's have been struiggling to NOT take the case. ie, someone will have to, but i dun wanna be it.
BingoBoingo: US city doesn't have $100B to burn except in inflatolade
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interesting
mircea_popescu: terrible case from their pov, the redditards consider it a prerequisite victory and the evidence dun support
asciilifeform: i expect they will doctor the evidence, and witnesses, as needed
mircea_popescu: so expect they.
asciilifeform: or, failing that, 'accident' the d00d in his cell.
mircea_popescu: the only problerm -- someone to actually do the work
mircea_popescu: otherwise reddington post fulla idea "men" in diaper suits.
asciilifeform: not so hard, to arrange a meeting with a sharp object, for prisoner
asciilifeform: or 'wrong heart med', milosevic-style
mircea_popescu: here's the thing with the monkey herds : they can all agree that "x is to be done" until blue in the face. the problem is that a specific X will have to do it. and the word is out whoever does it gets fucked in the ass, as per that ancient von flondor discussion.
mircea_popescu: so now the pantsuit agreements look like " it should be done -- but by someone else."
mircea_popescu: major operational degrading.
asciilifeform: to date they've always found a chump
mircea_popescu: depends how you count.
mircea_popescu: take the dnc. still looking for a chumpairman.
asciilifeform: looks like they found one tho.
asciilifeform: ( trump ! )
mircea_popescu: anyway. compare to the 90s, arguably the pantsuit's only glory times. back then, das would have fought each other TO get this case. surefire governorship
mircea_popescu: nowadays they deasl in surefire bharara-izations, not in surefire governships.
mircea_popescu: and in further tales from the orclands : place mp rented (furnished!) included something like a quarter ton worth of silver plate. because the woman likes it or something. among the vessels, this reasonably nice cup, with a lid. both the cup and the lid were chiseled into shape, but the lid had a forged pompom added on top, for ease of handling i guess or whatever.
mircea_popescu: obviously the chiseled bit and the forged bit were apart when i got 'em, and today finally got around to fixing the item. which, you imagine by now, first requires cleaning the surfaces from all the previous "fixer"'s efforts.
mircea_popescu: i removed, in this order : one layer caulk (no, really, it won't hold silver ?) ; one layer superglue ; and an unidentified oldest layer which i suspect might actuallty be flour-and-water.
mircea_popescu: the myth of "you're a human being and therefore you can do anything human beings can do" strikes again.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gonna resistance-weld it ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, borrowed some solder glue.
asciilifeform: dafuq is solder glue
asciilifeform: conductive epoxy ?
mircea_popescu: there's a special eutectic formulation of silver.
asciilifeform: that'd be normal highend solder, neh
mircea_popescu: there;s also special brazing flux. but i had a can
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah. well i guess maybe the "easy" sort.
mircea_popescu: hard solder glue is used with torch not soldering iron
asciilifeform: 'glue' is misnomer then
asciilifeform: it's a braze alloy
mircea_popescu: well, there's glue and there's filler.
mircea_popescu: filler is intended to fill cracks, ie, no resistence is expected of it. glue is supposed to actually join disparate parts.
mircea_popescu: (before anyone tries the cutting weld torch on their wedding ring : the torch here discussed is a tiny thing, not-that._
a111: Logged on 2014-11-05 06:19 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i've a story about those things.
asciilifeform: incidentally there is a very spiffy tool ( that i dun currently have one of ) for such occasions, that runs on... distilled water and many many amps of dc
asciilifeform: ( exercise for the reader, how )
asciilifeform: 'water torch'
mircea_popescu: there's also arc welders. pulse, 2-3 a sec, 2-3 amps or so
mircea_popescu: basically your cap.
asciilifeform: arc welder != resistance welder
asciilifeform: you wouldn't want to arc weld decorative silvers
mircea_popescu: honestly the tiny jeweler's torch is imo the solution.
asciilifeform: 'water torch' uses h2/o2. ( actually predates all other welding mixtures. )
asciilifeform: went largely out of style outside of jewelry and exotic metals work, because boom
mircea_popescu: this thing, usually plugs into like a campging cooker for the gas.
asciilifeform: http://archive.is/e38Qx << what asciilifeform has ( iirc there was a thread about this item, but can't seem to find )
asciilifeform: ^ the one that took laughing gas as oxidizer
mircea_popescu: radio shack eh ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, much better to have it pluggable into commodity reservoir than get special.
mircea_popescu: this IS the right internet. the pantsuit are more than welcome to build their alt-internetcoin.
mircea_popescu: i predict it'll work just as well as all their other "no really it's the original" clones worked.
mircea_popescu: hurr durr, "those other people are isolated because our internet consists of google amazon and facebook and we don't look outside herpa derpa"
mircea_popescu: meanwhile under the tree, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e69be6ae48b41f91b5e6d48136ef66fc/tumblr_nyo7bmYuDI1uco4pdo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: 'Cloudflare — a web services company known for never banning anything — dropped the Daily Stormer in a fit of pique' << lol!!
asciilifeform: 'an upstart company — especially one that’s deliberately isolated and adversarial — would have trouble competing with providing the type of service that Cloudflare, or its similarly massive competitor like Akamai, can' lolx2
asciilifeform: 'service', is it.
asciilifeform: incidentally, whatever happened to the 'common carrier' thing
asciilifeform: can assume, it is finally evaporated ?
asciilifeform: ( i.e. twatter et al no longer have any defense re ~failing~ to censor Officially hated-of-the-day $item, at any future point )
asciilifeform: ( http://www.cybertelecom.org/notes/common_carrier.htm << for aficionados )
asciilifeform: so per asciilifeform's (nonexpert) understanding, crapflare is now liable for, e.g., continuing to serve isis etc
mircea_popescu: wait a second, cloudflare is a WEB SERVICES company now ? i thought it was a nsa tap services company.
shinohai: Because load balancing is hard.
mircea_popescu: daily stormer just wanted to.
mod6: solid l0gz
shinohai: Que hay de bueno mod seis?
jhvh1: shinohai: 481914
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://trilema.com/2011/nu-mai-faceti-upgrade-la-nimic-niciodata/#comment-122744
mircea_popescu: shinohai did you nodeify it ?
mod6: shinohai: nada mucho.
shinohai: I felt that ~150 tx's are hardly worth me spinning up a cuntoo for
mircea_popescu: hm ?
shinohai: (Total # of actual segshit tx's being 150 for month of August)
mircea_popescu: ah. no i meant, is jhvh1 sitting atop a trb node feeding !~blocks
shinohai: Sadly, no. Though future plans are to make that happen. I need to have a sitdown with ben_vulpes and tie it in to mimi
mod6: "And yes if you're coming to visit me this is where I'm booking you." << yes!
mod6: just watched a video on this place.
mod6: looks like a good spot
mircea_popescu: btw BingoBoingo you ever seen days of wine and roses ? total aa publicity piece, jack lemmon's in it
BingoBoingo: Nah, it's on the list
mircea_popescu: it's not even terrible.
BingoBoingo figures there will be plenty of time to film watch when winter comes
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A90F910F39CE09AA42A7DCE0CC7AA81C7FB0BAE7AC9C81FE99C8343B1F3633B6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1740...5547 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (assigned-89-187-135-151.dc3.cz. CZ)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A90F910F39CE09AA42A7DCE0CC7AA81C7FB0BAE7AC9C81FE99C8343B1F3633B6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1574...0147 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (assigned-89-187-135-151.dc3.cz. CZ)
BingoBoingo: And in recent repeats, Transmayo protesters blocking traffic swarm car, try to beat driver. Driver escapes but faces felony charges. https://archive.is/trEw9
BingoBoingo: Pantsuits must be desperate to get other case law
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4338.81, vol: 10659.80671953 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4350.3, vol: 21198.12139798 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4330.612499, vol: 13652.80990000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4367.0, vol: 4391.59315841 | Volume-weighted last average: 4343.92892926
mircea_popescu: they really gotta start putting these schmucks in jail. were you "protesting" around a car and got run over ? 6 months till we get around to hearing your case.
mircea_popescu: no bail on the grounds of the serious social danger of mob-minded idiots.
mircea_popescu: !!up GratefulSerf
deedbot: GratefulSerf voiced for 30 minutes.
GratefulSerf: I am really enjoying reading the logs
mircea_popescu: good for you!
mod6: GratefulSerf: cheers
GratefulSerf: that's all - good day!
hanbot: following fun-filled central american day of rando power outages, mid-sync trb aborts at startup with http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Kub6l/?raw=true
hanbot: is this a thing?
mircea_popescu: did you wipe lock file ?
hanbot: not deliberately. lemmee see
hanbot: .lock's there with blkdat files etc, yeah.
mircea_popescu: wipe it.
hanbot: wiped, same failure.
mircea_popescu: ok, NOW let's read your paste :D
mircea_popescu: !#s NSt8ios_base7failureE
a111: 0 results for "NSt8ios_base7failureE", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=NSt8ios_base7failureE
mircea_popescu: i don't recall this wonder.
asciilifeform: hanbot: on what was this built ? and it ever ran ?
mircea_popescu: looks like disk corruption tbh.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> i don't recall this wonder. << me either. looking...
hanbot: asciilifeform ye olde ubuntu 10.04, and it's been syncing fine for ~2 weeks, over 3 or 4 startups.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding i had the honor of experiencing as much bitcoin node disk corruption as the next fellow, but never saw it beforeE.
asciilifeform: rotten db.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform looks like the db is fucked huh
asciilifeform: joy of bdb
mircea_popescu: did we have some kind of reindex iirc ?
mircea_popescu: may be worth trying before discarding data and starting over.
asciilifeform: can nuke blkindex but iirc this dunwork
asciilifeform: ( and never worked )
mircea_popescu: hanbot do you do detachdb ?
mircea_popescu: aite well, if your setup's only coupla weeks old by very far the cheapest solution is to wipe and restart.
mod6: that's probably the simplest answer :[
mircea_popescu: you may want to start it with detachdb and backup the chain now and again.
asciilifeform: you dun have to throw out the blocks tho
asciilifeform: can blkcut them and then eatblock
asciilifeform: a couplaeatimes faster than resync
mircea_popescu: unless she's set up for that, it won't be worth the time saved.
mod6: however, i might try a hand at keeping all but the most recent blk###.dat files, cutting them up with blkcut, then feeding them back in with eatblock.
asciilifeform: ( the blocks are fine, unless your disk is genuinely shot )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if the build has eatblock, there's not really any setup needed, just needs the 'can eat' flag on warmup
mod6: i basically did a recent full sync with nothing but feeding into eatblock, from cut blk files, took ~6 days iirc.
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm not disputing that it werx.
hanbot: alrighty. thanks all!
mod6: gl hanbot
mod6: fwiw, it looks like these lines from serialize.h :
mod6: 1285 if (fread(pch, 1, nSize, file) != nSize)
mod6: 1286 setstate(std::ios::failbit, feof(file) ? "CAutoFile::read : end of file" : "CAutoFile::read : fread failed");
mircea_popescu: call stack prolly 47 deep.
mod6: also, to the readers, if power flux is a problem, best to use some power conditioning (UPS) of some sort - shut down and back up your chain as you can to help prevent against BDB corruption from bad-shutdown, etc.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ya.
asciilifeform: another plus of small box with ssd -- you can use ordinary 12v lead cell as backup power.
asciilifeform: ( in line with the cable )
mircea_popescu: "Register For Free Online!". because totally, "register" fails to convey. it could be "pay 10 dollars and mail us things" right, that happens.